MSNBC host Lawrence O’Donnell is under fire this week for using the terrorist attack on Bourbon Street in New Orleans to attack the United States Army as a greater threat than those crossing our Southern border. The statement is a vintage example of why many are turning away from legacy or mainstream media, including MSNBC (which has lost nearly half its audience since the election).
O’Donnell has long maintained his show as something of a safe space for the left, including declaring that no Trump supporter would be allowed to speak on his show because they are all “liars,” a label that now applies to a majority of American voters in the last election.
Yet, this statement stands out for many in its unhinged effort to spin the tragedy into a more favorable liberal talking point.
O’Donnell declared:
“The simple fact is, this country has suffered more deadly terrorism at the hands of American-born citizens who are veterans of the United States military than people who have crossed into this country at the southern border. It is very clear from the evidence that if you want to worry about terrorism in this country, the United States Army is a much bigger problem than the southern border.”
There are two curious elements to O’Donnell’s comment. The first is that Army training somehow makes veterans greater threats of terrorism. The military also tends to instill patriotism and public service in its members. Moreover, O’Donnell was referencing the fact that Shamsud-Din Jabbar served in the Army, even though he was largely trained as a human resources and information technology expert. His attack was not a McVeigh-like truck bomb, but the use of the truck itself — an unfortunately common terrorist method that hardly speaks to any Army training.
Second, O’Donnell makes reference to those crossing the Southern Border as opposed to others who have either crossed any border or have entered this country legally. Again, the suggestion is that there is something about military training worthy of special concern. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, Zacarias Moussaoui, Richard Colvin Reid, James T. Hodgkinson, Thomas Matthew Crooks, Darrell Edward Brooks Jr., and others may beg to differ.
O’Donnell made specific reference to Timothy McVeigh, the domestic terrorist behind the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995:
“Timothy McVeigh parked a truck outside that building loaded with explosives in an act of homegrown American terrorism. Timothy McVeigh’s hatred of the American government was not tamed in any way by his service in the American military. So, too, with America’s latest terrorist attack in New Orleans on New Year’s Eve, with an American military veteran driving a pickup truck through a crowd to murder 14 people.”
Ok, McVeigh and Jabbar became extremists after they served in the military. However, all terrorists make such a turn — often in a sharp departure from their prior history and upbringing. What does that prove? It is the ultimate example of why correlation is not causation. It is a little better than the Latin corollary cum hoc ergo propter hoc (‘with this, therefore because of this’).
This is not to say that military service cannot produce PTSD and other forms of mental illness related to service. Rather, the effort to portray veterans as a greater threat than those crossing our borders illegally is specious. Indeed, the concern over the lax border controls (including but not exclusively at the Southern Border) is that we simply do not know who many of these individuals are. There are obviously many people (and countries) in the world who want to harm the United States. While they would previously attempt to get through airports and other entries, they are now far more likely to do so across an open border. Terrorists can be rational in their means even if they are irrational in their ideology and criminal acts.
Some on the left have picked up on O’Donnell’s spin, often citing a CBS News analysis of the data showing 26% of mass shooters over six decades have had military service or training. That is higher than the less than 10% of the population that has served. However, again, that is correlation not causation. Notably, that is less than a quarter of the mass shooters. What of the remaining? There are other correlations, such as religion or mental illness, that have equal or greater correlations. Any of them are capable of driving a truck into a crowd of people.
Moreover, the point seems to be that the concern over terrorists crossing the borders is overblown. There has been growing alarm over people on the terrorist watch lists who have been apprehended at the border. However, the great concern in Congress is the number of “gotaways,” which may now be in the millions.
The O’Donnell spin is ultimately more telling in terms of the media than it is the military. In the immediate wake of this horrific attack, the effort was to emphasize that the culprit was a veteran and not an undocumented person. It shows a certain mania in the media. We should be looking for patterns in these attacks. However, false causal connections drawn for political purposes will undermine not advance such efforts.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro professor of public interest law at George Washington University and the author of “The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage.”
As one who actually watched this episode, think O’Donnell meant that illegal immigration is a big problem, but caring for our active troops and veterans is a much bigger problem.
O’Donnell also pointed at that on average, illegal immigrants don’t commit more violent crimes than native born Americans. Adding more context to his comments.
Every day more than 20 veterans commit suicide, more military deaths than in combat.
The average deployment during the Vietnam War was 2 combat tours of duty. We’ve had forever-wars in the 21st Century exceeding 7 combat tours of duty.
Any real Conservative should be concerned about forever-wars that suspend Habeas corpus rights. The U.S. Constitution only allows “temporary” suspension of Habeas corpus and only during anarchy conditions not longterm.
Not providing full context to a news story also adds to our age of rage and divisiveness. O’Donnell was trying to counter falsely scapegoating of immigrants, lies which leads to violence against all immigrants – including the legal ones.
Talk about hyperbole….
— Statistics show the HIGHEST number of “daily” suicide rates for veterans to be @17, not more than 20. Once you rank them by substance abuse, PTS,
—The average tour of duty is 3 or 4 years; the average combat “deployment” tour is 12-18 months. Where are you coming from with your “7 combat tours of duty?” SINCE WE NO LONGER HAVE THE DRAFT, such re-deployments are VOLUNTARY by career soldiers.
—Whether “forever war” or regular war, the suspension of habeas corpus is subject to the same criteria. See Boumediene v. Bush.
—–Take a look at this, clown. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/suspected-terrorists-illegally-entering-us-up-over-2-500-under-biden-from-trump-era/ar-BB1mwAYS
Spinmaster ^
@Anonymous Democrat Apparatchik: O’Donnell also pointed at that on average, illegal immigrants don’t commit more violent crimes than native born Americans. Adding more context to his comments.
Normal Americans would think: why does it matter whether that is true or just another Democrat lie about their Guest Democrat Voters – are we supposed to agree that whatever percentage of crimes Illegal Aliens commit while illegally in this country is acceptable? We need them both to pick our lettuce and get our violent crimes high enough to be acceptable?
Oh yes! We have another cowardly lying Anonymous Democrat pimping that lie out again. Is the tell that they cannot use the proper term “Illegal Alien”?
Apparently, they believe we don’t have enough violent crimes in total from American citizens – so Democrats are going to fix that by importing more violent criminals to add to the total.
And that’s called “context” while making excuses and pimping for O’Donnell – who is rarely right about anything. Same O’Donnell that is still occasionally pushing the “Trump-Russia Dossier” lie? Yes, it is!
Some real context that O’Donnell and his Democrat pimps will not tell the American public:
1. Illegal Aliens commit far more violent crimes PER CAPITA than Americans. It isn’t even close. Anybody have any idea why O’Donnell and other Democrats might choose not to mention that? Just hope they can get away with making their claim on the basis of gross numbers?
2. Not all law enforcement agencies flag Illegal Aliens charged with a crime, any crime, as an Illegal Alien. They do not record status as a citizen, visa holder, or Illegal Alien for record purposes. Did those violent crimes not actually happen because they didn’t get labeled as Illegal Alien crime by those collecting data?
3. Visionary Democrat law enforcement agencies help muddle the waters by either not charging Illegal Aliens for the crime, or shielding them from ICE by concealing their status as Illegal. That’s one way of keeping the number of violent crimes committed by Illegal Aliens down!
4. Then there’s Democrat prosecutors like Alvin Bragg and other Soros types who will plea deal away the violent crimes for a guilty plea on the non-violent crimes – leaving them less likely to be prioritized for deportation.
5. Illegal Aliens are most likely to prey on other Illegal Aliens for their everyday violent crime. Illegal Aliens, logically, do NOT want to call police and come to their attention by reporting they were mugged, assaulted, etc, and risk a date with ICE as a result. Look at that! More violent Illegal Alien crimes that magically didn’t happen because they were not reported by victims fearing deportation!
6. Some data collection on citizen/Illegal Alien status is only done at the point of arrest – when determination of status does not occur until later in the criminal justice process. More Illegal Alien crimes that don’t get counted.
7. The U.S. Sentencing Commission tables show that Illegal Aliens make up a disproportionate share of those convicted of federal crimes. These non-citizens make up about 6.4 percent of the adult population in the U.S., CIS said, but 44.2 percent of those convicted of federal crimes between 2011 and 2016 were Illegal Aliens. Excluding immigration specific crimes, the figure was 21.4 percent. So we’re supposed to believe that they offend at a much greater rate for non-violent crimes. But for violent crimes, they are far, far less likely to offend?
Let that sink in a bit while the Anonymous Democrat apparatchik pimps for O’Donnell’s lies about the criminal Illegal Aliens they are turning themselves inside out to try and keep here in the USA as parasites.
Old Airborne Dog
O’Donnell was trying to counter falsely scapegoating of immigrants, lies which leads to violence against all immigrants – including the legal ones.
These are not “immigrants”, and O’Donnell is deliberately misusing that word to give them some legitimacy like actual immigrants.
Calling them immigrants is a lie. But then, Democrats always lie, so that’s normal for O’Donnell.
Immigrants are the ones who arrive at the border at a regular port of entry with an immigration visa with their name on it, in their passport. And they arrive only after completing all the background checks, confirmation they can support themselves, health checks, etc.
You would think Democrats don’t know what the word “immigrant” means. Or don’t know what “Illegal Alien” means.
How about a reminder of the “immigrants” that Democrats keep encouraging to come here illegally and allow to enter the country illegally? You know, the ones you claim are being “scapegoated”:
ICE reported a few months ago – after Mayorkas was cornered like a rat – that they released 662,566 “non-citizens” (i.e. Illegal Aliens) with criminal histories – 435,719 individuals with criminal convictions in their home countries and another 226,847 with pending criminal charges. 13,099 of these released individuals have convictions for homicide, with 1,845 facing criminal homicide charges. Another 9,461 have convictions for sex offenses, and 2,659 face pending charges. The convictions include other crimes such as assault (62,231), robbery (10,031), and sexual assault (15,811).
So what’s the deal, Anonymous Democrat? You believe we don’t have enough violent criminals here in America, so you want to make up the shortfall by continuing to illegally import violent Illegal Aliens until the numbers of violent criminals and violent crimes are high enough to meet whatever quota you’re shooting for?
Or do you believe the reason they illegally came to America was an attempt at restorative justice? You’re positive that once they’re here they will go straight? Not only are we to believe that they’re less likely to commit violent crimes than Americans, but they also have nonexistent ricidivism rates unlike Americans?
Actually it is the people who own the networks who are the greater threat to the Nation. The bobble heads on any particular network news are only performing the useful idiot role of trying to please the boss and get their next salary raise.
But it’s the owners of the network(s) who continue to demand their employees relentlessly distribute made up lies, and anti-American hatred, while sowing the seeds of Marxist driven ideological propaganda in an effort to destroy the National societal infrastructure, despite losing most of their audience and along with it most of their corporate value. It is they who are the true enemies of America. So much so they are willing to sacrifice the very instrument of their wealth to achieve their maniacal goals. A wealth they now use as a weapon against America itself even to the point of destroying their own corporations. Far from being grateful to the Nation which gave them the opportunity to gain great wealth, they entirely despise it.
Far more dangerous than any attacks we’ve seen conducted against innocent Americans where a mere weapon such as a knife or gun is the chief tool used by a lone lunatic who wants to end their life but lacks the courage to do so unless or until they strike out and do something so horrendous that the act itself forces them to end their miserable existence or choose death by cop. These corporate menacing billionaire operatives must surely be entirely soulless to pursue the death of their own Nation as the ultimate expression of their pitiful corporate suicide.
O’Donnell wasn’t wedged nearly enough as a snitnose kid
We obviously need a one pickup truck per month law as well as red flag laws for pickup truck drivers. Speed governors limiting pickup trucks to 10 mph should be required. These would obviously stop crime with pickup trucks. Until next time ownership of pickup trucks would be banned except for police and military and everybody forced to ride bicycles or take public transit.
“…CBS News analysis of the data showing 26% of mass shooters over six decades have had military service or training” “Notably, that is less than a quarter of the mass shooters.” Slightly more.
Actually, MSNBC commentators are a much bigger threat to our nation.
Interesting what was said in House Chamber the other day…
“Two months ago, the American people elected Donald Trump as the 47th president of the United States of America,” Jeffries said, speaking at the dais in the House chamber.
Loud cheers and whistles filled the room, as GOP lawmakers jumped to their feet and celebrated Trump’s victory.
“Thank you for that very generous applause,” Jeffries said with a smile. “It’s OK. There are no election deniers on our side of the aisle.”
GOP lawmakers weren’t celebrating anymore. Now Democrats stood up and cheered even louder as Jeffries continued.
“One should love America when you win and when you lose,” said the minority leader. “That’s the patriotic thing to do, and that’s the America that House Democrats will fight hard to preserve because we love this country.”
trumpets are the wimpiest of wimps this world has ever produced.
“Stop the hammering!!”
Lawrence O’Donnell is a useless propaganda-spewing idiot.
Thank you professor for pointing out how MSNBC and MSM in general have lost their credibility, trust and have no class. Thankfully we have idiots like Odonnell who continue to alienate over half of the country and are even driving Democrats away. With luck, someone will buy MSNBC, fire 80% of them, fire Odonnell and he can try to make a living like Don Lemon on TicToc and failing. Switch off MSM. Support alternative media!
Another thoughtful article on an important issue. Thank you, professor
Another Harvard grad displays his wares, eh Larry?
Tell us Larry, is it also appropriate to label ALL Harvard grads as liars, boobs and incompetents? Given the well known bigotry in selection of Harvard students combined with the documented ‘grade inflation’ of that institution can we thus assume that the examples of Claudine Gay, Ted Kennedy, Barack Obama, a significant number of SCOTUS members and yourself actually represent that institution’s tinged product as a whole?
It’s very clear what the common thread is for terrorists and mass murderers-they all have mothers. Mothers are a much bigger threat to the United States than males crossing the border. Surprised MSNBC hasn’t picked up on this.
Do you mean birthing persons?
He means a childbearing homo sapiens sapiens.
Nobody listens to this clown except you, professor. Why give him a stage?
Professor Turley, the greatest threat to America regarding terrorism, or any other subject of concern, is your fellow Democrats.
Particularly your fellow Democrats making their living as you do in some angle of politics, and your fellow Democrats in the fraudulent and corrupt mainstream news media. Without the O’Donnell’s, Wallace’s et al, the critical Democrat-Mainstream Media Propaganda Complex could not possibly exist. These are today’s fifth columnists.
A Marxist collective with their version of Mao’s Great Leap Forward and “cultural revolution”. Marxists pursuing cultural, economic, and political Marxist goals. And as Marx repeatedly wrote, for Marxism to succeed the load bearing walls of the civil society they wanted to replace had to be destroyed.
These are the news media propagandists that eagerly cooperated and coordinated with Democrats to push the illegal “Trump-Russia Dossier”, the Alpha Bank fraud, the “51 intelligence experts” laptop fraud, and of course helped perpetrate the flat out lie that Biden is completely sentient and in full possession of his faculties as he sits as just another Oval Office house plant, while his son decides what to do with the nuclear football.
Here’s a thought Professor Turley: what if it isn’t a case of your fellow Democrats in the media fraudulently using “the news” as an attempt to lie the Democratic Party to hegemony in Washington DC?
What if your Democratic Party is actually working to give the capos in the Mainstream Media what they want as far as legislation and policies in America? Doing so in exchange for that media helping them get elected to live the Washington DC life of privilege on the caviar and canapes party circuit?
Trump and the GOP are obviously not the answer to all of America’s problems.
But the Democrat-Mainstream Media Complex is the root cause of all America’s problems.
Old Airborne Dog
You have often used this fellow Democrats tag against Professor Turley. However, given that (1) Professor Turley routinely criticizes Democrats and left leaning media instead of Republicans and right leaning media and (2) when you register to vote in Virginia where he lives you don’t register by party (unlike NY and I assume other states), are you sure Professor Turley is actually a Democrat (or considers himself one)?
You have often used this fellow Democrats tag against Professor Turley.
It’s a fact. If it’s against him, then make your case that it isn’t and we’ll have a discussion.
But first: the reason you’ve noticed these posts is because I do so under a username. You, on the other hand, have chosen to question as a coward, Anonymously, preferring not to post with a username attached.
Come back with your questions, objections, concerns with a username attached next time, and then we can have that discussion and each make our cases. It’s not really all that hard.
Old Airborne Dog
@Anonymous
Yes. He refers to himself as a multi-generational democrat frequently in these columns.
Jonathan Turley has unabashedly stated on several occasions in his column on this site that he is a Democrat. Are you the slightest bit literate? He also admitted to voting for Obama (twice), Hillary Clinton in 2016, and Biden in 2020. To the best my knowledge, he has not mentioned for whom he voted in 2024; I would be very interested to learn that.
It seems that I could find no evidence that Mr ODonnell ever served in the military so I would have some difficulty with accepting him as an authoritative voice on training, combat or ptsd from combat. I never served either but I have never said anything about the military like what Mr ODonnell said. He seems to think his life in the media and entertainment make him an authority on mental health care, the military and the effects of combat on human beings and the idiocy of his statement proves that he is wrong.
The military, on all its branches, has served the nation with great honor, since our creation, with a profound sense of duty few of us have ever been called upon to replicate. I don’t think any of us, who have never served, have any real idea of the cost in lives and physical and mental damage of that service. We are lucky that most who serve come back are whole or relatively unscathed.
But there is a profound cost and it is difficult in our present medical setting to know who will come back whole and who will not and may suffer the rest of their life for their service.
Mr O’Donnell slanders them all. But he will go on and on with his slanders and our best option is to shrink his audience to 0.
I don’t believe any of his slander and he offers nothing but hallow observations. A straw man at best.
As a physician I treated many veterans in VA hospitals and private practice and must admit that the post military support our veterans receive is a travesty. The VA system occasionally gets it right but is often found wanting, corrupt, inefficient and sometimes just plan hostile to those who served.
My belief is that the VAH should be disbanded and all veterans enrolled in a full service private insurance plan and we as the nation pick up the tab. There should be specialty centers for those with severe bodily and brain injuries who will be impaired for the rest of their life. For those with mental health needs and PTSD there should be long term care, as needed in inpatient facilities, and sufficient outpatient facilities around the nation so that active outreach can go to every veteran that needs it. I am tired of VA failures continuing when we can do so much better. These people offered up their lives to us as a nation and it’s about time we gave them the lifelong aftercare that gift of theirs requires of us.
GEB, remember the movie “Born On The 4th Of July”? That movie was released over 35 years ago. While it wasn’t primarily about VA care, it was graphic in it’s depiction of how America’s war wounded were treated.
I would reject anyone claiming this butcher’s terrorist attack was a result of occupational stress injuries suffered during the course of working as a human resources expert and IT specialist. If there was any evidence that mainstream media researchers had found that he had shown symptoms or asked for help, they missed reporting on it. He was pulling $10k a month working for a major accounting firm, but that couldn’t keep him out of financial distress. And perhaps the failed marriages as well.
If there’s any good to come out of this propaganda journalist’s comments, perhaps it will be at least some focus on the continuation of VA failures.
Old Airborne Dog
Pretty sure Mr O’Donnell served a specific segment of the new WOkE military in a different way…if you get my drift. Whole new meaning to embrace the suck!
the seed that the military veterans who had returned from war a potential menace to Society was planted during the 1st Obama round. it is reprehensible to assume this position as there are so many variables and plenty of blamed to go around. I’m astonished that CBS is still even on the air.
It was well before Obama, that was the sentiment after Vietnam. You can’t send men to war to inflict death on the enemy and expect them to ever be normal again. The atrocities of war do not end on the flight home. The good side is that only 10% of troops are ever exposed to the true carnage of war. WW2 was same, a Pacific veteran told me the lower decks of his transport were cells for the many men that had completely lost their minds after battles like Tarawa, Guadalcanal, New Britian, Iwo Jima, Bouganville, Saipan and the other major killing zones. He said they were completely emotionally destroyed.
As a Veteran, O’Donnell and MSNBC can kiss my azz. I bet he wouldn’t say that to a Vet face to face.
I bet Gigi and George wouldn’t say their insults directed at Professor Turley to his face either.
MSNBC. The home for hateful bigots on the Left. Let’s reject them, as haters of all varieties earn their rejection by decent people.
Just ignore them. Don’t respond to their taunts.
Military training does not prevent or undo brainwashing. I was brainwashed by the pledge of allegiance. Yesterday the news was that vp harris, could not remember the pledge. Unfortunately a free society, made up of sheep, also allows wolves, that kill sheep, to roam freely. PTSD is real, America is not always virtuous. Our enemies are experts at brainwashing disillusioned soldiers. The fbi should change their acronym to “FIB”.
Define who “our enemies” are., then develop a plan. Show us.
Define who “our enemies” are”
The “woke”
“then develop a plan”
Humanely return them to their endless sleep…
He’s got a point. There is data. Some vets are driven to rage and madness by being neglected by the very same crowd who bray loudly about their patriotism and service, but fail to oversee exactly what benefits they’re promised or notice what’s never received. Many are afraid for the welfare of their families while on extended service, inconsistent and insultingly demeaning “mental health” services, lack of decent affordable housing, etc. They also have the means and methods to kill, are trained to despise ‘The Other’ (the enemy du jour) and come to regard fellow citizens as suspicious non uniformed civilians, not as neighbors. You can’t train people to murder others and ignore the consequences. That is not normal human behavior. We’ve all seen cops who are distraught and leave service even after one justified lethal shooting. Don’t pretend the horrors of war does not take its toll.
Continue to make massive cuts in services to the populace that includes angry vets, while bending over for the oligarchs, and see how well this goes.
Source?
* you’re not an American. You don’t know who they were. The WWII vets came home, took up the plow and went back to honest work without missing a beat. They just don’t make them like that anymore. O’Donnell is a disgrace.
So it is…