Below is my column in the New York Post on the pardoning of the January 6th defendants by President Donald Trump. The scope of the pardon appears broader than some had hoped. What is clear is that any such relief should not extend to violent actors, particularly those who attacked police officers. However, the Justice Department itself may have made the strongest case for presidential pardons.
Here is the column:
On January 20, 2025, the “shock and awe” campaign of the Justice Department came to an end as President Donald Trump pardoned 1,500 January 6th defendants.
Four years ago, the Justice Department set out to send a chilling message to the nation. In an interview with CBS News a year later, Justice Department official Michael Sherwin indicated that they wanted to send a message with the harsh treatment of defendants.
Sherwin explained that “our office wanted to ensure that there was shock and awe … it worked because we saw through media posts that people were afraid to come back to D.C. because they’re, like, ‘If we go there, we’re gonna get charged.’ … We wanted to take out those individuals that essentially were thumbing their noses at the public for what they did.”
The awe is gone but the shock remains at the Justice Department.
If Sherwin and his colleagues hoped to “Trump proof” the nation, they failed in spectacular fashion.
While there was ample basis for criminal charges, the excessive treatment of some of the January 6th defendants undermined the credibility of their prosecutions for many.
That is no easy feat.
Most of us denounced the January 6th riot as a desecration of our constitutional process.
Those who engaged in the rioting, and most importantly the violence, needed to be punished.
However, what followed left many increasingly uneasy.
The Justice Department rounded up hundreds and, even though most were charged with relatively minor crimes of unlawful entry or trespass, the Justice Department opposed the release of many from jail and sought absurdly long sentences in some cases.
It also sought restrictions on defendants that raised troubling first amendment concerns.
In my recent book, “Indispensable Right,” I discuss these cases and their troubling elements.
A good example is the handling of the most well-known case of the so-called QAnon Shaman.
Bare-chested, wearing an animal headdress, horns, and red-white-and-blue face paint, Jake Angeli Chansley became the iconic image of the riot.
Seeking to make examples of these defendants, the Justice Department took special measures in hammering Chansley. He was held in solitary confinement and denied bail.
Chansley was treated more harshly because of his visibility. It was his costume, not his conduct, that seemed to drive the sentencing.
In the hearing, Judge Royce Lamberth noted, “He made himself the image of the riot, didn’t he? For good or bad, he made himself the very image of this whole event.”
Lamberth hit Chansley with a heavy 41-month sentence for “obstructing a federal proceeding.”
However, long withheld footage, showed recently that Chansley (like hundreds of people that day) simply walked into the Capitol past police officers and was then escorted by officers through the Capitol.
At one point, two officers not only appear to guide him to the floor but actually try to open locked doors for him.
Chansley is shown walking unimpeded through a large number of armed officers with his four-foot flag-draped spear and horned Viking helmet on his way to the Senate floor.
Does that make Chansley’s actions acceptable, let alone commendable?
Of course not.
He deserved to be arrested and punished.
However, what many saw was a troubled individual being made an example for others.
In my book, I discuss how, in history, “rage rhetoric” was allowed to become “state rage.”
This is one such case.
Trump ran on the promise to pardon these defendants and secured not just the White House but the popular vote.
It was not just the public that rejected the narrative of January 6th as an “insurrection.”
In the recent Supreme Court decision in Fischer v. U.S. to reject hundreds of charges in January 6th cases for the obstruction of legal proceedings, the Court left most cases as simply a mass trespass and unlawful entry.
The shock may be gone for these defendants, but it may only be beginning for the Justice Department and the FBI.
When the campaign of Hillary Clinton secretly funded the infamous Steele Dossier to launch the Russian conspiracy investigation, it was the Justice Department that was not just the willing but eager partner.
The “insurance policy” described by former FBI official Peter Strzok was redeemed in investigations that derailed much of Trump’s first term.
Later, it was the Justice Department again that pursued a no-holds-barred effort to convict Trump before the election.
The Justice Department is the hardest of silos in Washington to reform.
Unlike most departments, it is largely homogenous, with thousands of lawyers who share professional and cultural ties.
It is a department composed of people who are by their very definition, litigious.
Trump insisted on selecting an Attorney General, nominee Pam Bondi, who has no past ties or identification with the department.
For the Justice Department, it must feel like the Visigoths arriving at the gates of Rome . . . only to be let in by the citizens.
According to polling, the public ultimately found the “barbarians” less threatening than those who have insisted that Rome would fall.
That must certainly be shocking for many in Washington, but the record of the Justice Department showed how the awe can become awful when officials feel the license of state rage.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro professor of public interest law at George Washington University and the author of “The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage.”
Trump pardoned people that helped conduct an attempted coup for him. There is no sugar coating how bad that is. They literally attacked the capital in order to keep Trump as an unelected President.
ATS – You, the MSM, the left, democrats, the J6 comiteee, DOJ, FBI the court s and DC juries have lied to us repeatedly.
They have lied about this.
They have lied about a long list of other things.
“You don’t matter anymore. ”
A slowly diminishing body of people believe anything you say.
It is not necescary anymore to disprove each and every claim you make.
You are a LIAR.
The claims you make come from other LIARS.
You can say Coup all you want – no one is listening.
You have no credibility – and that is entirely of your own doing.
You are not beleived about J6.
You are not beleived about the 2020 election.
You are not beleived about the lawfare against Trump and others.
These are a few of the long long list of lies that you have been caught in.
Unfortunately we may never know the full truth about the 2020 election, or J6.
But we know that you, the MSM, the left, democrats, DOJ, FBI the courts all LIE and can not be trusted.
The price for getting caught lying egregiously is
“You don’t matter anymore”.
John Say,
Well said!!! And you are right, they dont matter anymore.
* no, not liars, John Say. They know not that they are stoopid.
“In the recent Supreme Court decision in Fischer v. U.S. to reject hundreds of charges in January 6th cases for the obstruction of legal proceedings, the Court left most cases as simply a mass trespass and unlawful entry.”
Read it again.
I respectfully disagree with the way you are framing the Capitol riot. This is a more objective, honest, dispassionate summary:
Trump was plotting in several ways to overturn the election result through a peaceful, lawyerly coup.
By the morning of Jan 6th, all of these plots had fizzled out except the “Mike Pence option”. In a heated phone call before the Ellipse rally, Pence told Trump to “forget it, I’m not doing it”.
Trump, grasping for straws, figured that a large, rowdy crowd chanting loud outside the Capitol might push Pence to reconsider. At the rally then, Trump misled his loyalists into thinking the Pence Option was still possible, setting them up to play their non-violent part at the Capitol.
Watching Fox News TV coverage of the Joint Session, around 2 pm, Trump had to finally accept reality — Pence was not bluffing, he was going to certify Biden’s win. Acting recklessly in panic mode, Trump tweeted out to the protesters that “Pence betrayed us”. That’s when the riot started. Trump did not order a riot — but he did set unrealistic expectations that he knew would be dashed, and then sent a trigger tweet at 2:24 that unleashed his anger at Pence.
It’s incorrect to accuse Trump of plotting a violent takeover of Congress….the plan was for a peaceful, lawyer-driven coup.
The riot was the messy collapse of that plot. Trump acted recklessly in manipulating a mob action. That’s what he should be accused of — not a planned, violent insurrection.
Wrong. Explain why the select committee destroyed evidence then. WHAT were they hiding besides the truth about what REALLY was going on that day of Nancy Pelosi’s Fedsurrection.
Wendybar,
Well said. That is why Biden issued all those preemptive pardons to those members on the Jan6th committee. They conducted criminal crimes. But now they have pardons for their crimes.
You haven’t refuted anything I explained about Trump’s part in the Capitol riot.
All you did was change the subject. I’m not disagreeing about mistakes made by the J6 committee.
All that means is, BOTH camps made mistakes.
Where does this idea come from that side A making a mistake exonerates a mistake made by side B?
That kind of moral confusion about right vs. wrong represents a serious decline in a Christian nation.
That’s what worries me the most.
America has no future without a shared culture of moral values. All the Founders agreed on that.
Trump was plotting in several ways to overturn the election result through a peaceful, lawyerly coup.
Any differences between that “plot” and “coup” and the ones attempted by Democrats to legally prevent Trump from taking office in 2017? Or is that Democrat Double Standards Different?
“‘It Is Over’: Democrat Senators’ Efforts to Deny Trump Presidency Fail”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/06/us/politics/democrats-attempts-to-deny-trump-are-rejected-in-joint-session.html
That was only eight years ago, pbinca – but you never posted about the various avenues that Democrat politicians in Washington DC attempted. Never mind the bribes offered to members of the Electoral College to vote as faithless electors to put Clinton in office.
Democrat politicians who attempted to deny Trump being a candidate in their state for the last election – more coups and plots, pbinca?
Back to your “Trump’s Big Lie” persona today, pbinca! Now run off and hide – or justify that you’re applying one single standard to all.
Old Airborne Dog
Old Dog, I blogged against the vicious infowarfare campaign waged against Trump by Hillary, the media and Obama Admin in 2015-2020. Altho, I don’t think Res Ipsa Loquitur was even up and running in 2015.
Pointing out wrongdoing without taking sides is, I’ve found, very annoying to those who take sides, who have convinced themselves there is no middle ground.
A “peaceful, lawyer-driven coup” is still an illegal coup.
Does that apply to Al Gore’s “peaceful, lawyer-driven coup” in Florida, despite the fact he never once was ahead in any of those districts until SCOTUS finally stepped in and stopped those continued judicial variations that still hadn’t delivered the right recount?
Does that apply to all the Democrat legislative attempts in Washington DC to prevent Trump being sworn in after his victory in the 2016 election was confirmed?
Well…. how about all the Democrat “peaceful, lawyer-driven coups” to prevent Trump being on the ballot as a choice for voters in 2020?
Let us guess: Democrat Different Double Standards ‘R Us™
This is why you cowards only post Anonymously before running off to hide.
Old Airborne Dog
If “a peaceful, lawyerly coup” was challenged in court, and upheld, it would not be a “coup” as that word is usually understood. Which negates your premise. “Trump was planning (or ‘plotting’, if you must) to use some long unexploited features of the electoral voting system to produce a defensible alternative outcome to the election” would be much more accurate. From everything I have read on the subject, proposing alternative slates of electors is perfectly legal. Possibly Pence should have cooperated, and only failed to do so because he feared for his popularity.
Trump pardoned people that helped conduct an attempted coup for him.
Here we have another cowardly Anonymous Democrat, frantically channeling their guilt onto Trump. They won’t stop trying to convince normal Americans that they should swallow their nasty Democrat Bull Schiff turds – as long as they pick them up by the clean end.
Let’s re-state that channeling deflection: Biden pardoned everybody felon and degenerate who helped cover up his Biden White House Crime LLC operations for YEARS by persecuting Trump to draw attention from the Biden crime family. THEY LITERALLY LIED TO COURTS UNDER OATH TO ELIMINATE TRUMP’S CIVIL RIGHTS IN HOPES THEY COULD FIND SOMETHING TO JAIL HIM WITH.
Meanwhile, every single Obama/Biden administration apparatchik who repeatedly perjured themselves to FISA courts in the attempt to do a Laverentiy Beria on Trump, first to help Clinton win the 2016 election and then Biden after that is still walking the streets as a free unindicted Democrat lawyer.
Every police state fascist from the Democrat J6 Committee coup attempt, who attempted to help Biden eliminate his opponent in order to give him another four years of White House Diapers is still walking the streets as a free unindicted Democrat felon.
This is why these pathetic scrotes with all the character of one of Gigi’s discarded condoms only come out of their fetid hiding places to post Anonymously.
Old Airborne Dog
Solitary confinement for the charges involved — essentially civil unrest — is simply not justified.
The DOJ/FBI grossly goosestepped over the lines of appropriate confinement for such charges. It’s not a close call.
It was political retribution, not criminal justice.
Wouldn’t it be prosecutorial negligence if DOJ prosecutors had video exculpatory evidence of the shaman and did not inform the defense and the judge?
Your article touches on but misses the significance of the most important reason Trump was successful and that these pardon’s are necescary.
You used Chansley as one example, but do not completely grasp the import.
Joe Biden pardoned all those involved in the J6 investigations – including the police officers – Why ?
Because it is now self evident that from the start they LIED.
You say that J6 was a riot and that it was bad and that some should be punished.
How do we KNOW that ?
Can we trust the capitol Police ? No. Multiple officers perfured themselves in testimony after the event.
Can we trust the FBI ? No they have lied about their involvement for 4 years.
Can we trust the prosecutors ? No. They too have been lying and hiding evidence.
Can we trust the Judges ? No. They are worse than the prosecutors, denying due process to defendants,
barring exculpatory evidence.
Can we trust the J6 committee ? No they lied about the testimony that they tookm and then tried to destroy it all when republicans gained the house.
Can we trust the democrats ? No they created the star chamber Berria investigations deliberately pushing a narrative rather than truth.
Can we trust the media ? No they long ago abandoned their role of speaking truth to power or even caring about the truth.
Not only can’t we trust those people above regarding January 6th, but we can not trust them about anything.
These are the same people that lied to us about Alpha Bank, about the collusion delusion, about the Hunter Biden Laptop,
About the origens of Covid, About Masks, lockdowns, Gain of Function research.
Why should we beleive they are telling us the truth about January 6th ?
Why should we beleive they are telling the truth about the 2020 election ?
Why should we beleive they are telling the truth about anything ?
You specifically note that we were Lied to about Chansley. but miss the fact that when the entire justice system when governmenty, when the media, when the entirety of the politiccal party in power is lying about Chansley – we can not trust them about ANYTHING.
Are some of the J6 protestors guilty of something ? Maybe, but how can you know what ? What evidence do you have that you can trust ?
And this goes beyond J6.
The same people lying about J6 have been caught lying about many other things of equal or greater importance.
We can not trust these people about anything.
And that is why Trump is now president.
And that is why pardons for everyone involved in J6 are necescary.
“…self evident that from the start they LIED…”
Right, Jethro. The truth is whatever your opinion is.
John Say lays out a cogent and logical explanation of why the pardons are justified and Anonymous replies with an idiotic and juvenile response. I for one am sick of Anonymous juveniles trying to ruin this site.
HullBobby,
Respectfully, I disagree. Our leftist friends, with their inane, idiotic and juvenile comments give us insight to their mental maturity: Juvenile. They are low thinking or even non-thinking. They think their little comments are some kind of zingers, just as a six year old thinks while the adults in the room just nod their heads and dismiss the comment.
That is exactly why I watch CNN from time to time and read the NY Times and WashPost online from time to time and read USA Today, etc.
“…self evident that from the start they LIED…” You call that cogent and logical??? I guess in MAGA hillbilly world.
Another commie birthing person pops off from the Lavarentiy Beria wing of the Soviet Democrat party.
To hullbobby: I’m sick of the Anominoidiots that are not honest enough to identify themselves, or are too dumb to figure out how.
Vincente, Upstate makes a good point about them showing how juvenile they are as being helpful to prove we are on the right side, but your larger point is one that I have been trying to make for months…END THE ANONYMOUS NAME!
We are all “anonymous” or at least most of us are, but we create a name so that regular readers can recognize us, read or ignore us and react accordingly. Having ten (or who knows how many) people going by Anonymous makes it frustrating because we don’t know if it the usual idiots, some new idiot or someone who may actually have a good point but either hasn’t figured out how to create a name, hasn’t had the initiative to create a name or doesn’t realize that he or she is lumping themselves in with the idiots.
Thank you.
As a new reader and poster, I get confused by all the anony mouses.
ATS – I provided specific examples.
You can debate whether Chansley did anything wrong, but there is ZERO doubt that the media, the left, democrats, DOJ, FBI, the CP, and the DC courts LIED about Chansley.
Chansley is important because YOU made him important. YOU made him “the face of the insurection” and when the facts did not fit YOU LIED.
It is not a mistake that the video of Chansley that was not made public for almost 3 years does not jibe with YOUR narrative. YOU chose the narrative.
If YOU have not made Chansley important your miscarriage of justice regarding him would be small potatoes.
Further Chansley is just ONE example. Babbit was murdered and you have tried to cover that up. Boylan was almost certainly murdered – she was with absolute certainty beaten repeatedly while on the ground unconscious, and those that tried to protect her were severely beated and charged with assault.
The above is a SMALL sampling of the many LIES YOU have told about J6,
It is also the tip of the iceberg of the long long list of lies you have told.
Facts are not opinions.
There is video of the Attack on Boylan, the shooting of Babbit, Chansley engaging in polite conversation with CP officers, and being given a tour of the capitol by them.
These are all FACTS – EVIDENCE,
Not until AFTER the 2024 Election would the FBI admit that they had more than a Dozen infilitrators in the J6 capitol crowd.
We still do not know who they are and whether their role was quiet observers or instigators.
But we NOW know they were there. And we KNOW that YOU have lied about that for years.
The above is about the lies of January 6th.
But J6 is not the first lie you and all the others selling us a false narative of J6 lied about.
You have been lying about the Bidens for more than a decade,
You lied about the collusion delusion, you lied abut Hunter Biden, you lied about covid.
Each and everyone of these larger lies involved dozens of smaller lies as well as abuse of power.
It involves lying under oath to the FISA courts, it involves opening investigations without the constitutionally required basis,
It requires appointing Special Counsels to investigate accusations that you KNOW are frauds.
You lie about everything.
You lie about big thing,
you lie about little things.
If Trump is within a 1000 miles of something – you lie.
You dont matter anymore.
California democrats have elected Adam Schiff the poster boy for Trump Derangement syndrome and Senator.
It was clear from recent confirmation hearings, that was a huge mistake.
Schiff is not only a liar – but EVERYONE knows he is a liar.
Witnesses and appointees are $hitting all over him, and democrats are doing nothing about it.
They can not. Schiff has no credibility worth defending.
You dont matter anymore.
John Say,
Great comment. With all the preemptive pardons handed out by Biden, they now acknowledge they are the party of criminals.
The fact that the January 6th committee destroyed all “evidence” from their “investigation” is confirmation enough of the lying and duplicity. Wasn’t that action destruction of government property? Isn’t destruction of government property a crime? Wasn’t destruction of government property one of the crimes for which the Jan 6 rioters and protesters were accused, tried, and convicted? No wonder why Biden preemptively pardoned them. While the preemptive pardons may prevent their criminal prosecution, it does not prevent an independent investigation of January 6 Committee members. If after doing so and their suspected duplicity is confirmed, it should be widely publicized, sort of the way Jack Smith published his “findings” about Trump before they could be submitted and defended at trial. The law licenses of any Jan 6 Committee member attorneys involved may then be at risk especially if they were involved with conspiracy to destroy government evidence. Public shaming of these miscreants would, I think, be more effective than a criminal trial and more likely than not would prevent them from ever being elected or appointed to a government position. And it would be less expensive for the U.S. taxpayer.
Vincente
I hope that investigations will continue, but I suspect they will not.
A few will buy the rationalization that Biden’s Pardon’s were to protect innocent people from Trump’s vengence.
Most will take them as even more proof of criminal conduct.
Conversely the J6 protestors we pardoned for what they were convicted of.
A few will see that as a reward for bad conduct.
Some will see that as mercy for those who have been punished enough.
Many will see that as further proof of their innocence.
Turley argues well that the DOJ’s Gestapo like Nacht und Nebel handling of J6 is justification for their pardon. And that is true.
But Biden’s pardon’s move this from overzealous prosecution to criminal persecution.
Further the conduct of the prosecutors and the misconduct of those Biden pardon’s leads directly to the conclusion that J6 protesters
were a real threat.
Dangling in the background of this and numerous other examples of lawless and over the top left wing conduct is that ultimately all of this is to protect the
claim that the 2020 election as legitimate.
The more extreme the lefts efforts the less credible the election is.
If the 2020 election was a fraud – an actual insurrection was justified.
On Nov. 5 2024 Trump got about a million more votes than he did in 2020.
Kamela Harris got nearly 10M less than Joe Biden in 2020.
There are many explanations. But there are also many reasons Harris should have done better.
Is this the final proof that the 2020 Election was stolen – no.
But it is more reason to explain why doubt has grown.
You maintain this canard that Harris in 2024 “got nearly 10M less” than Biden in 2020, but the difference between 81.25M and 75M is only 6.25M.
Maybe you mean the net swing because Trump got 77M – 74M = 3M more than last time. But the net swing of 9.25M is much less than that between 1960 and 1964 when there were fewer than half as many voters.
@ John Say: “A few will buy the rationalization that Biden’s Pardon’s were to protect innocent people from Trump’s vengence.”
I agree with your sentiment, but sadly, I believe it won’t be just a “few” who will carry on this malarkey to which Biden himself committed.
The vast majority of ordinary people, and even most lawyers, have no idea what American Jurisprudence says about Presidential pardons regarding either the process or the “guilt” of the pardoned.
In this regard, on his January 20 “System Update” show, Glenn Greenwald has an excellent segment on how, for at least the past 120 years, according SCOTUS, accepting a Presidential pardon is the the same as admitting to guilt in the matter the pardon affects.
https://rumble.com/v6bvevs-biden-shamelessly-pardons-liz-cheney-dr.-fauci-and-his-family.html?e9s=src_v1_ucp
Starting at time stamp 14:17 Glenn discusses the 1915 SCOTUS ruling in “Burdick v. United States, 236 U.S. 79”
[ https://scholar.google.ca/scholar_case?case=3928528117882105076&q=Burdick+v.+United+States,+236+U.S.+79+(1915)&hl=en&as_sdt=2006&as_vis=1 ]
In referencing an older SCOTUS ruling (1833) “United States v. Wilson, 7 Peters, 150,” the Justices in Burdick concurred [at 90] with the statement:
“A pardon is a deed, to the validity of which delivery is essential, and delivery is not complete without acceptance. It may then be rejected by the person to whom it is tendered; and if it be rejected, we have discovered no power in a court to force it on him.”
So, a pardon can be “extended” to someone but it is not “granted” unless that person agrees to accept the pardon.
Moreover, the Justices in Burdick, are absolutely clear that a pardon implies/imputes guilt and accepting one is accepting a pardon is a confession of guilt.
SCOTUS in Burdick states [at 94]:
“This brings us to the differences between legislative immunity and a pardon. They are substantial. The latter carries an imputation of guilt; acceptance a confession of it. The former has no such imputation or confession. It is tantamount to the silence of the witness. It is non-committal. It is the unobtrusive act of the law giving protection against a sinister use of his testimony, not like a pardon requiring him to confess his guilt in order to avoid a conviction of it.”
So, under U.S. jurisprudence, as per SCOTUS since at least 1915, the act of a accepting a Presidential pardon is in and of itself a confession of awareness of some kind of guilt. And this alone would be enough (usually) for a summary conviction in a trial court.
No matter how much Biden and the media claim the contrary, each one of those Biden pardoned, from members of his family to a creepy short-structured “doctor”, are, at least in the eyes of the law, guilty of some crime – even un-enumerated crimes — for which they have been pardoned.
In the case of Biden’s blanket pardons for un-enumerated crimes, acceptance of a Presidential pardon is one and the same as admitting to a guilty conscience regarding the matter the pardon affects.
The law licenses of any Jan 6 Committee member attorneys involved may then be at risk
Not a single member of the Washington DC Bar Association has EVER been disbarred for ANY felony or political malfeasance they committed in public office to deprive Trump and others unrelated to Trump of their civil rights through color of law.
– Kevin Klinesmith, convicted FBI and Mueller Investigation felon for altering exulpatory evidence to instead be confirming of criminality regarding Carter Page. Not even a day in jail.
– FBI Director James Comey; multiple felonies of perjury and uttering false documents to FISA courts.
– FBI Directer Andrew McCabe; same as above.
– FBR Director and Special Counsel Robert Mueller; same as above.
– Attorney General Loretta Lynch; same as above.
– Attorney General Sally Yates; same as above.
Professor Turley’s Washington DC Bar Association has never even punished it’s members for felonies, much less widespread malfeasance to engineer political victories.
Don’t hold your breath hoping that these bar associations and Democrat courts are going to change.
Or for Professor Turley to finally write he sees just how great a danger his fellow Washington DC Democrat lawyers are to our constitutional processes.
Old Airborne Dog
As a former member (for 50 years) of the DC Bar Association I agree with you 100%. The DC Bar, like the DC Government, is totally a captive of the far-left Democrat Party.
Speaker Johnson should pull all remaining members of congress who were a part of the J6 committee from their committee assignments. Their pardons do not shield them from house action. How can they be trusted not to destroy evidence in the committee they are a part of?
Vincente: NO! The January 6th Committee did not “destroy” anything—more MAGA media lies. Excerpted from USA Today:
“The claim: Jan. 6 House committee was caught destroying records
An Aug. 9 Facebook post (direct link, archive link) shows clips of several members of the House committee that investigated the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.
“Now that the J6 Unselect Committee has been caught destroying their records, let’s see what they said in their own words about destroying evidence during their made-for-TV show trial of President Trump,” reads part of the post.
It was shared more than 300 times in 12 days. Similar versions of the claim have been shared on other social media platforms by former President Donald Trump and by Rep. Lauren Boebert, a Colorado Republican.
Follow us on Facebook! Like our page to get updates throughout the day on our latest debunks
Our rating: False
The Republican congressman overseeing the investigation into the committee’s work has not said any records were destroyed, and there have been no reputable reports of such destruction. What Rep. Barry Loudermilk of Georgia did say is that some video recordings are missing, and he does not know what happened to them.”
“
John Say’s statement is clear and thoughtful. We have a social contract between the government and the people which is the Constitution. We the People drew it up and pledged ourselves to it as did the people who make up the government and it has stood for 200 + years.
However when the government and its minions launch such illegitimate assaults against the people and their candidates and lie to such a massive degree, they begin to destroy the legitimacy of the government. When you see and uncover so many lies then, as JohnSay says, why should we trust anything that the government subsequently says and it’s a valid point. The question is “well we know you lied before so are you lying now and how do we assess and judge that”.
That is not the conundrum that you want a mass of the people thinking about because it is a short step from questioning the honesty of the government and the righteousness of the government and reaching the decision that the government lies all the time and cannot be trusted, as presently constituted.
So the next step is to change the government and do you do that by voting (but can you even trust that if large parts of the government fight against proper ID’s and legitimate voting). Your are making the people think about other means to change the government and if that grabs hold in enough minds then the legitimacy falls and then foundations crumble and revolts and revolutions start.
Trump might be the best legitimate means to change the government by operating within the government and using its tools to house clean and restore confidence.
If the previous powers continue to fight and use illigitimate means to block Trump, well then you have a real real problem and I don’t think many of us want to see that.
Integrity and truth must be restored and soon or you risk having everything fall apart.
At some point in time that Cadaverous Charlatan that sits on the Beach in Delaware needs to pay the piper, or this all just a ten penny opera full of sound and fury signifying nothing.
GEB,
Great comment.
Thank you.
You have said something better than I.
People should not fear their government, government should fear the people.
Those on the left seek to do everything in their power to silence, crush any challenge to the legitimacy of government.
They fail to grasp that in doing so, they do more to undermine the trust in govenrment than those challenging it.
I am less fearful than Turely or many here of the unconstitutional and particularly the censorious conduct of the left.
Freedom – free speech in particular is the canary in the coal mine.
When the canary passes out – everyone knows to get the h311 out.
If you kill off the canary because you do not want to hear it,
eventually you die.
I am glad Trump won this election. I am glad that we are passed peak woke.
At the same time Harris/Biden and the left were NOT an existential threat.
There is a Taylor Caldwell book from the 70’s called the devils advocate
where a freedom fighter infiltrates a tyrannical government where he
rises to power by being even more tyrannical. The consequence of increasing oppression,
is amplifying resistance.
Israel has a similar problem in Gaza right now. While there is no doubt their response to Oct. 7 was justified.
There is no doubt they were entitled to destroy Hamas,
in the end they have probably failed. Most of the members of Hamas on Oct 6 are now dead. Most Hamas leaders are dead.
But Hamas may be larger than it was before. The war in Gaza has created new Members of Hamas.
I am not looking to defend Hamas. Only pointing out that these things are difficult.
Opression creates resistance.
It is not misinformation that theatens democracy – it is supression. Even the supression of lies undermines the legitimacy of those doing the supression.
@ John SayAt the same time Harris/Biden and the left were NOT an existential threat.
I am in agreement with the majority of what you wrote. However:
The Democrat strategy to obtain political hegemony in Washington DC through inviting millions of government-dependent Illegal Aliens and then refusing to enforce immigration law while allowing and aiding them to illegally enter America, was and IS an existential threat. What’s the total now? 30 million Guest Democrat Voters and how many Democrat seats in the House allotted to states with those Illegal Aliens in their population?
Democrat hegemony in Washington DC is the end. Democrats choose the Supreme Court judges (as well as other federal judges, including immigration judges), whether or not you pack the courts.
You pick the bureaucrats who will push the Democrat Great Leap Forward: the Merrick Garlands and Alejandro Mayorkas’. Lawfare like the “Trump-Russia Dossier” and Jack Smith police state fascism is certified by the Democrats judges and courts as normal American justice.
Republicans in Congress and the House can then go to that Democrat SCOTUS and other federal courts of course… good luck with that.
Soviet Democrats have increasingly turned to lawfare in order to achieve their Great Leap Forward that they can’t win running on for election at the ballot box.
THIS time, they failed.
But this is far from over, and Trump is going to have to sprint through minefields for the next year and a half to get major achievements accomplished with Republicans still able to retain control of the Senate and the House in the midterms.
Old Airborne Dog
OAD, I agree 100%. You have well stated the situation.
^^You’d think this idiot would finally learn to spell Turley’s name, but turns out that’s a bridge too far.
They didn’t lie. Trump did. Your denial of the facts and need to make excuses for what you cannot defend is obvious. Trump wanted the violence to continue until something gave way, but it was taking too long and getting out of hand, so much to the point that even his co-conspirators were begging him to call off the mob. Trump tried to change the outcome legally first, then he failed. After that he resorted to illegal means. That’s what the Smith report would have shown if it were not for Trump’s pet judge Aileen Cannon blocking the release of the report. She did not have jurisdiction to block it in the first place. Now that the DOJ is in Trump’s hands that will never happen unless someone leaks it.
They didn’t lie. Trump did. Your denial of the facts and need to make excuses for what you cannot defend is obvious.
George is the avatar for Democrats confessing by what Sigmund Freud termed “channeling”: transferring their onto Professor Turley and Trump who they hate.
Serial pathological liar George emulates the psycho in a forensic hospital saying he’s sane and it’s the doctors and caretakers who are crazy. In George’s case, it’s Trump that lied – not George, not Bribery Biden, not Adam Schiff
George can’t defend his serial, pathological lying that Bribery Biden would admire. This is why George was chosen to play the part of Larry in the performative political theater here as a member of The Three Democrat Marxist Stooges.
George, as always, you show yourself to be a Cheap Fake American police state fascist.
Old Airborne Dog
The DOJ put their full force against people who could not afford to fight, as well as scared away lawyers defending the J6. The J6 Committee destroyed all their records etc. so J6 defendants could not see some of the evidence. The lead Prosecutor Graves was Biden’s hand picked friend who wanted to be the next US AG under Harris. Yet Antifa etc were never punished. Riots of BLM were never punished. Burning down Portland few if any were never punished. Yet the DOJ went after J6. What was the role of the FBI, under cover?
Trump should fire every one of the DOJ etc involved in such prosecution. The J6 should sue everyone of the DOJ staff involved including J6 committee members. There is a class action suit being filed against the DOJ.
Yes, the J6 should be pardon but also compensated for what they went thru, many are ruined financially Trump needs to do a clean sweep of DOJ and FBI restore their confidence amongst the American people.
With evidence, there is a question of cause, effect, and self-defense.
Let’s not forget history…
In 1979 Jimmy Carter pardoned the Puerto Ricans independentists who shot 30 rounds into the working legislative floor of Congress in 1954 where FIVE representatives were wounded.
On January 20, 2001, the day he left office, President Bill Clinton commuted the sentences of two of the six members of the radical-left
Armed Resistance Unit who bombed the U.S. Senate in 1983.
Also known as Resistance Conspiracy, they were a United States–based branch of the wider communist organization known as the May 19th Communist Order.
In 2008 a Marxist was delivered to our highest office on a campaign platform created in the living room of a convicted terrorist husband and wife team. Both were members of the terrorist group, the Weather Underground. Both aspired to status of professors at our higher learning indoctrination centers, Bill Ayers and Bernadette Dorn.
Obama is not a Marxist. You’re utterly stupid, but Obama is not a Marxist.
Obama may not be a Marxist, but he did begin his career in the home of two CONVICTED terrorists.
Is Obamacare a Socialist solution to destroying the healthcare industry? Obama is a Marxist, that was until he got some gravy from being a Capitalist.
Were the leaders in the USSR, in the CCP, in Fascit Italy marxists or just oportunists ?
What is universally true is that the leaders shilling for ever greater statist power, live like kings until either their people or fellow ambitious statists murder them.
@hullbobby, Bolshevik Barack is indeed a Marxist – one who used Marxism to become a multimillionaire, just like other Marxists in the public eye.
Bernie The Commie Sanders as another example – the multimillionaire who once said “Any politician who is a millionaire is evil”.
The self-declared trained Marxist founders and leaders of Black Liars & Marxists, who siphoned millions in donations into their pockets to walk away and buy multiple mansions with.
You can change the label as the previous one becomes odious: Marx termed it ‘communism’. That was renamed ‘Marxism’, which was then renamed to be ‘socialism’, then ‘democratic socialism’, etc. And now they prefer to be labelled “Progressive”.
At the core is a belief that a self-appointed intelligentsia like themselves should have the power to tell the population what they can and cannot do, what they can and cannot say, what they can and can’t buy, and of course how much of what they earn belongs to them and how much belongs to the intelligentsia who run the government.
At their core, they’re what Marx and Engels described in their books: communists promoting communism in all it’s forms.
Old Airborne Dog
Actually, he is.
Obama is a firm believer in growing the power of government.
You can charitably attribute that to a desire to use that power for good,
But as Lord Acton said more than 150 years ago.
Power Corrupts,
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Are there differences between Obama and Marx ? Certainly.
But both Marxism and Obamaism lead to the same failure via the same route.
I do not care whether you label Obama a marxist.
He is the proponent of ideas that have universally lead to bad outcomes.
At what point does naivete cease to be an excuse for the damage the left causes ?
Obama is a communist and Obamacare is utterly unconstitutional as pure communism.
Obama did one thing: Unconstitutional communist Obamacare.
And you’re even more stupid if you try claiming that Obama repeatedly saying “redistribute the wealth” and other Marxist phrases makes him a Marxist.
“Fair share” of taxes (not in Constitution), “from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs,” Central Planning, Control of the Means of Production, Redistribution of Wealth, Social Engineering, all principles of communism and strongly held beliefs of Obama.
When citing the example of the QAnon shaman’s treatment, Turley neglected to mention that he was also obstructing justice and speaking poorly about the judge in his court. This behavior resulted in him facing more trouble than necessary; that “harsh” punishment was largely self-inflicted.
Most rioters and protesters charged with trespassing and vandalism have still committed a crime. Turley may not agree with how they were treated or the length of time their cases took. It seems he doesn’t fully grasp the reality of how the justice system operates in this country. Cases do not move quickly in the judicial system, especially when someone cannot afford a lawyer and must rely on a government-appointed one. The “unfairness” that Turley complains about is quite common; it’s simply part of the process. Perhaps he should spend time observing how things function at an intake facility and how court hearings are scheduled in real life. What appears straightforward on paper is often chaotic and slow in practice.
Turley is criticizing a process with which he has never truly engaged, especially not from his high position at the university.
More lies from the lie master.
Look it up yourself. The Qanon Shaman pi$$ed off the judge in court by making stupid claims and lying. You make stupid decisions in front of a judge you get nice prizes like staying in jail. Turley “forgot” to mention that part.
YOu never fail at making a complete fool of yourself man.
Can you please go somewhere else, your insanity is disturbing – see a md.
“The Qanon Shaman pi$$ed off the judge in court by making stupid claims and lying. ”
Not relevant – also mostly not true as the video later proved.
“You make stupid decisions in front of a judge you get nice prizes like staying in jail.”
Nope, we jail propel for crimes – not disrespecting judges – we do not do that when the judges do NOT deserve it.
We certainly do not when they do.
You are not required to respect the court, the judges, the prosecutor or the law.
Even if you are convicted you are to be sentenced for the crime you committed, not disrespect for the courts.
you seem to have forgotten the adage that “Justice is blind”
“Look it up yourself. The Qanon Shaman pi$$ed off the judge in court by making stupid claims and lying.”
Democrat Double Standards Different – presented yet again today by Democrat police state fascist George
George, look it up for yourself: those Washington DC judges and lawyers didn’t mind in the slightest when Obama’s Attorney Generals and FBI Directors repeatedly both perjured themselves and uttered false documents to them and their courts. Those felons got nice prizes like celebrity status and millions in their pockets – no jail cell next the Qanon Shamon.
George, you pathological police state fascist liar, you forgot to mention any of that.
That’s why you’ll never be more than a pathologically lying Cheap Fake American police state fascist.
Well you do get paid by Act Blue / Media Matters by the character, so there is that detail you fail to mention. But carry on and do your employer their bidding. We understand as a “conservative, married Jew, Republican, with 6 children” as you have told us, LMAO, you have mouths to feed, and a personality disorder that drives your bat shιτ crazy behaviors. Regards to George Soros, David Brock, Angelo Carusone and his husband
I’ve begun to wonder if the the paymaster for that clown and the other sock puppets echoing its idiotic assertions isn’t the Chinese Communist Party. It would certainly fit their strategy and conform with some of their known tactics.
More excuses and bad takes from George.
The treatment that the J-6 folks experienced at the hands of the Corrections Department have been despicable…Prisoners of War were treated better; Gitmo treats them better…They should have ALL been released…
Criticizing government including judges is a first amendment right.
Any judge that can not tolerate the disrespect of defendants without using their power to punish them is unfit.
Obstruction of justice is something very specific. Chanely did NOT obstruct justice.
But prosecutors and judges who undeniably withheld exculpatory evidence obstructed justice and should be prosecuted.
“Most rioters and protesters charged with trespassing”
Nope, the government can not thwart the 1st amendment by closing down a public forum for free speech.
If Congress is in session the capitol must be open for protests.
Congress is free to act to protect their own safety – either from protestors or covid.
But NOT at the expense of the first amendment rights of citizens.
Vandalism is a crime. Were those who tried to burn down a federal courthouse for 100 straight days tried and convicted ?
Those who busted down the fence at the WH in june 2020, burned St. Johns, and threw rocks and forzen water bottles at police ?
I can go on and on.
No one protesting outside the WH in june 2020 was convicted.
Many received money from the government.
No one involved in the Kavanaugh protests – which included putting an axe through a senators dor wa prosecuted.
“Turley may not agree with how they were treated or the length of time their cases took. It seems he doesn’t fully grasp the reality of how the justice system operates in this country.”
The justice system operates according to the constitution.
When criminal defendants are not given due process, when they are denied access to exculpatory evidence, when they are denied access tot he evidence against them.
when lies are presented as truth in court, when the accused are tortured, when those accused of non-violent offenses or who pose no threat of violence are denied bail, when they are provided attornies who are hostile to them, and when the attornies that would represent them are hounded out of the bar – it is the justice system that is the criminals.
There is no excuse for the conduct of the DOJ, FBI, J6 Prosecutors and courts.
“Cases do not move quickly in the judicial system”
The defendant has the right to a speedy trial if they so chose.
In all but the most extraordinary circumstances they have the right to bail.
They have the right to a lawyer that is not trying to convict them.
BTW, but for the lawfare of the left – those like Project 65 seeking to disbar anyone who defended Trump or supporters.
None of these people would have had any problem affording a lawyer.
Violent Left wing protestors had no problem get bail, and lawyers – if thy were even prosecuted.
There were go fund me’s and volunteer lawyers.
Every effort by anyone to do anything similar for J6 defendants was met with lawfare.
“The “unfairness” that Turley complains about is quite common; it’s simply part of the process.”
If true that changes nothing.
“Perhaps he should spend time observing how things function at an intake facility and how court hearings are scheduled in real life.”
What occured with J6 defendants was NOT normal. It was also illegal and unconstitutional.
“What appears straightforward on paper is often chaotic and slow in practice.”
Does not matter – the constitution must be followed.
“Turley is criticizing a process with which he has never truly engaged, especially not from his high position at the university.”
I doubt you know what Turley has engaged.
But I can tell you from experience with real legal systems that you are full of Schiff.
In my community a woman participated – lead George Floyd protests.
My community is pretty conservative and that was not taken well.
The protestors she lead busted windows on the police station, and lit a dumpster on fire.
She was arrested, charged with incitement, and arson and vandalism.
Initially bail was set at $1M – that lasted about one day.
Very quickly left wing lawyers came in and successfully challenged bail, and she received a minimal bail.
She was free on bail for about a year before being tried. She had free legal services, she was convicted,
she is still out on bail as the case is being appealed on 1st amendment grounds.
She is likely to win on appeal.
He treatment is appalling. It is extreme even for my conservative community.
It is not 1/100th as bad as that many J6ers faced.
John, your responses to “George” should, I assume, be seen as George providing a reason for you to point out all the Democrat wrongdoing and felonies committed by Democrat lawyers in public office that Professor Turley avoids talking about.
These Washington DC judges and lawyers have yet to disbar one of their own who committed felonies in their courts to deprive Americans of their civil rights through color of law. Much less put a single one of them in any jail – much less the cells many J6 defendants spent years rotting in while awaiting trial.
Old Airborne Dog
Don’t they arrest people for stealing valor?
Don’t they arrest people for stealing valor?
Why are Anonymous Democrat pedophiles on probation for luring small children on the internet by stealing Airsoft Valor, claiming they were an Airsoft Door Gunner on a nuclear submarine, not in jail for using the Internet when their probation order specifically barred them from using the Internet?
Old Airborne Dog
(see how easy it is to have a username when you don’t have to hide your criminality and lies!)
There is no possibility of a lie in a question.
Answer the question: What the —- did you do in the war?
Answer the question: What the —- did you do to those little kids to be on probation and banned from using the Internet after being thrown out of the Airsoft Commandos?
It appropriate that Daniel Greenfield published “Anti-American Anti-Heros” this morning. It fits the narrative of the Left that they have tired to impose cultural change through politics. His line, “They are malignant narcissists who want to break the world because they’re unhappy” summed up a short but astute series of observations on society’s falling into a victimhood mentality that the Left promotes. A very good read.
https://www.danielgreenfield.org/2025/01/anti-american-anti-heroes.html
Professor, can you compare legal consequences for civil war veterans from the south, who did take up arms resulting in a massive number of deaths, compares to a bunch of protestors on Jan 6 armed with red hats and protest signs? Surely, the men who took up arms went to prison, right?
They were mostly given amnesty and took an oath to the Union as they mustered out and ultimately received veterans benefits and pensions! While Grant, Sherman, Custer, Crook, Sheridan et al; went West to practice their total war knowledge on exterminating the Plains Indians. You know, in the name of equality and human rights.
Well it’s a legal question. They seceded, formed a government, elected a president and congress and formed an army with uniforms, so to speak, a command structure, with rules or engagement and war. The captured confederates were treated as prisoners of war and other nations also recognized that fact. The Union had to follow thru on standard treatment of POW’s otherwise their own POW’s would suffer. So it was 2 nations at war although the Union, at first tried to have it otherwise, but events superceded. And received amnesty as Traveler notes in his answer.
In WW2 Most German, Japanese and Italian prisoners , who survived, went home (unless they were captured by the Russians) The trials of the worst came later.
The J6 people were rioters and should have been treated as such, no more no less. But they received harsher punishment and treatment than the rioters of the Summer of 2000.)
AG Bondi could help to restore confidence in the Department of Justice by appointing a special counsel to look into the actions of the government in refusing to release the video evidence relating to the J6 riot at the Capitol. It is obvious from descriptions given here by Turley and in the past by others that these videos amount to “Brady material” that the government unlawfully withheld from defendants criminally charged in the J6 riot. The bogus excuse at the time was for “security reasons,” as if the public is unaware that security cameras are in operation at the Capitol. Bondi should release all evidence that has not heretofore been released to the public. Based on what little we know, the special counsel should investigate whether the J6 defendants were deprived of their civil rights by the government’s unlawful withholding of Brady material. The recourse by defendants so affected could be civil charges against the Department of Justice or any other government agency or entity that deprived them of constitutional rights under Title 42, U.S. Code, Sect. 1983 (“Civil action for deprivation of rights). Under this statute, aggrieved defendants might recover attorney’s fees, lost wages, and other expenses incurred by the government’s unlawful actions. Yes, it would amount to the Department of Justice investigating and prosecuting itself (civilly) but the outcome would help restore needed integrity and public confidence in a badly damaged Department.
JJC,
Well said.
@JJC: Thank you!
Sadly, I do not believe any of this will happen. Particularly when the FISA courts and judges that Obama Attorney Generals and FBI Directors repeatedly perjured themselves and uttered false documents to have never been dragged back to those courts to face contempt of court charges in front of those judges.
Never mind being indicted and prosecuted by Trump Attorney Generals and federal prosecutors after that. They walk free in Washington DC, made wealthy by their felonies to corrupt our constitutional electoral process in public office.
Now there’s some positive reinforcement for felonies in office! Political operant conditioning a la B.F. Skinner and his experience with real rats, not Democrat political rats!
No, I don’t have confidence AG Bondi via Trump will do that, for political reasons if nothing else: the calculus of felicity of sorts. She is not so 100% impartial she will not run actions like that past President Trump first – there are midterms two years away with Democrats looking for something to campaign on.
Old Airborne Dog
Turley is making excuses for Trump breaking his promise that only non-violent January 6 protesters would be pardoned. This isn’t really shocking, but it is surprising.
It’s Trump’s prerogative to pardon whomever he wants for whatever reason. However, that doesn’t make it ethical or right. The same can be said about Biden’s last-minute pardons. A president has the authority to issue a pardon for any reason. What’s amusing is that Turley is making excuses for Trump while criticizing Biden for doing the same thing. The question now is whether Turley will focus more on Trump and the Republicans now that they are in control of all three branches of government.
Trump is once again wavering on his promise to try to save TikTok.
I predicted last year that Turley would either make more excuses for Trump or find it increasingly difficult to avoid criticizing Trump and the Republicans now that they are in charge. It’s only a matter of time before his columns start to reflect this change. Will Turley push back against Trump’s executive order ending birthright citizenship? After all, it is a constitutional issue.
“. . . Biden for doing the same thing.”
Pardon those over-charged and over-sentenced. Versus pardon your own corrupt family members.
In what universe are those the “same thing?”
There’s a significant difference between the pardons. Biden is trying to save his own a** — his whole family “earned” millions that they otherwise would not have. This started no later than 2014 (the date on the pardons), while Joe was the VP. They didn’t pay taxes on the bulk of it. His son and brothers should have registered as foreign agents; they were paid by several foreign governments. Maybe Joe should have registered too. His family had access to classified documents that Joe didn’t even have a right to remove from the scif — what did they do with that information? He never would have become president had any of this been disclosed. And let’s not forget the paintings which sold for millions, when they likely would not have sold at a garage sale without Daddy being the president. They were not prosecuted by the Biden DOJ, except for Hunter and his fraudulent tax returns (and the gun charge). The IRS whistle blowers were not allowed to pursue the case as they would have with any other tax case. Statutes of Limitations were allowed to run.
Trump issued pardons to people unrelated to him. The people he pardoned were prosecuted more heavily by the Biden DOJ than other people with similar offenses. It was so bad that Biden also pardoned the entire J6 Committee, who reportedly destroyed evidence.
“They didn’t pay taxes on the bulk of it.”
Can the Trump IRS go after all of them civilly for payment of the taxes owing on the bribe money they got through Biden White House Crime LLC and did not declare as income?
Or has a statute of limitations expired on such a civil action to collect unpaid taxes?
“Trump breaking his promise that only non-violent January 6 protesters would be pardoned.”
Trump did not and would not make such a promise.
What he did promise is that all non-violent offenders would be partdoned and that others would be looked at on a case by case basis,
With pardon’s, and commutations where appropriate.
He made repeatedly clear that even where he thought a conviction was warranted that most “violent” offenders would receive commutations
as they had already served more time than others who committed similar crimes.
I would note this is EXACTLY what Trump did. If you listened to his executive order press conference last night.
He noted that All J6’rs had not been pardoned, that many cases were still being looked at and that there would be more pardons and/or commutations in the future based on each individual case.
That is what he promissed,
That is what he is doing.
“It’s Trump’s prerogative to pardon whomever he wants for whatever reason.”
Correct.
“However, that doesn’t make it ethical or right.”
Correct,, it is ethical and right because these people have been tortured, denied representation, denied exculpatory evidence, denied due proceess,
and the few that are guilty are guilty of crimes that typically result in slaps on the wrist when associated with protests.
“The same can be said about Biden’s last-minute pardons. A president has the authority to issue a pardon for any reason.”
He does.
We KNOW the exact crimes of J6ers. They have been investigated, prosecuted, tried and convicted.
Most people know the process was not constitutional, and that the sentences were draconian.
People can quibble over details of whether Trump should have commuted a tiny number of specific people.
Biden pardoned people who DOJ/FBI have not investigated, for crimes that even he does not know and are completely unspecified.
If someone finds a dead J6ers body in Liz Chenney’s basement – she ha been pardoned.
Trump’s pardon’s are being viewed by all outside the far left as just.
Biden’s are being viewed as obstruction of justice.
Those views are correct.
Trump and Biden both pardoned people – that is where the similarity ends.
BTW I support SOME of the Biden pardons.
I do not give a schiff about the family pardons. They are to be expected. Frankly they are just confessions confirming what everyone knows.
Claims that Trump was going after Biden or his family are stupid – though they do deserve it.
Biden is no longer president and will never be again. He likely will be dead before Trump’s term ends.
His family is a bunch of inconsequential crooks and going after them doe not lead anywhere useful.
Chenney and the J6 committee members have congressional immunity for their acts. But their staff does not.
Miley does not, Fauxi does not.
I do not personally see any point in jailing them.
But there is very good reason to find the truth.
I strongly suspect that Biden’s pardon’s may end that.
But I an not unhappy about that. Biden’s pardons come with the stench of guilt.
People will rightly presume they are guilty. They likely wil presume they are guilty of things they did NOT do.
Biden’s pardon’s leave us unclear about the absuses of power involved.
That allows people to beleive whatever they want. To beleive the pardons are for small acts to protect from a vengeful Trump,
or for much larger bad acts than occured.
People are likely to beleive the pardons cover up more misconduct than actually occured.
The pardon’s bar the ability to use the 5th amendment.
Republicans Might choose to stop, to allow the stench of Biden’s pardon’s to be the final judgement.
“What’s amusing is that Turley is making excuses for Trump while criticizing Biden for doing the same thing.”
The pardons are the same only in that they are pardons.
No one Trump pardoned murdered anyone.
no one Trump pardoned abused government power.
No one Trump pardoned received a blanket pardon for unspecified crimes.
“Trump is once again wavering on his promise to try to save TikTok.”
Not last I heard, regardless, he did not “promise” anything.
It MAY not be in his power to do much.
That depends on the law.
I expect Trump and his administration to be subject to criticism, from Turley, from me, from the left.
But idiotic nonsense like the collusion delusion is not going to fly.
In the unlikely event that CNN, MSNBC, WaPo, …. actually made a charge that was true,
it is probable that people will not beleive them.
Just as people do not beleive you.
YOU have dramatically lowered the bar for Trump.
Because you ad the left have been caught in so many lies
“You don’t matter anymore”
Turley is making excuses for Trump breaking his promise that only non-violent January 6 protesters would be pardoned.
This is the Lying George who four years ago assured us Trump was going to give himself and his family members preemptive pardons as he left office.
This is the same Lying George who just months ago assured us Bribery Biden would NEVER pardon his son.
And this is the same Lying George who comes here each and every day to smear his host, while believing he has established some sort of credibility here, as he does his performative political slapstick theater playing the part of Larry in The Three Democrat Stooges as he drives that vaudeville clown car.
George can certainly lie like his Dear Leader, Bribery Biden. But he’s nothing other than a Cheap Fake American Marxist
Old Airborne Dog
The real injustice of the 2020 election took place 3 weeks before the vote, when Biden, Blinken, Morrell and 51 spies that lie set out to dupe the electorate in order to tilt the election. It worked.
Not long after Biden’s Inauguration was secured, the truth about the infowarfare campaign spilled out, who was behind it, and even polls revealing that 11% would have changed their vote knowing the truth at the time. The dupe only had to work temporarily. And this is where Justice Brandeis’ dictum “The antidote to bad info is good info” is shown to be naive and flaccid — the time delay in correcting the falsehood gives it “legs” — during which time the “W” goes to the deceitful infowarior(s). Are we becoming any less naive about Brandeis’ aloof, theoretical model of “free speech”?
And yet, JT is sticking to his guns — public deceits waged for political gain by the most powerful actors in society are to be allowed to run their natural course, with no means to mount a fast-response, legal counter-challenge. He’s sticking to Brandeis. He’s ceding the time advantage to the conniving liar.
How many more of these highly-consequential public dupes are we going to weather before thinking critically about the use of deliberate falsehoods to shape public opinion over the critical short-run when public decisions are taking place? When are we going to accept the blaring defect in Brandeis’ dictum, and focus on a legal process with fast-subpoena and deposition as the tools that whittle away the infowarrior’s lead-time advantage?
The antidote to bad info is good info, but only if the good info floods the public square in time to matter.
This debate about free-speech and the cold, calculated use of deception has barely begun.
I agree wholeheartedly, the election was stolen by a myriad of methods, one cut at a time. The interference by the FBI failing to legitimize the laptop while pursuing the fraudulent Steele dossier. The illegal allowances of mail in ballots in various States without proper legislative oversight. Ballot harvesting at nursing homes and buying votes at homeless shelters, you name it, they did it. Trump is mandated by his own claims to provide the full disclosure of information on the 2020 election frauds. I MO that is ground zero to bring our country back to order and once disclosed to the public will calm a distressed nation.
I mostly agree. The self-serving corruption of state officials who oversee Presidential election design and administration — how is it to be challenged and corrected in real-time? Clearly, an incumbent President running for re-election has a massive conflict-of-interest in the election outcome, and cannot be given any role.
It is the State Supreme Courts who have to correct the corruption. But, to the extent they hold partisan bias, then the corruption stands. There is no neutral referee under our system of Presidential elections to ferret out corruption occurring unchallenged at the state level..
You are correct in that the delay in getting good speech to refute bad speech was a major problem with the 2020 election. This “lag time” was primarily the result of a partisan media. However, since Musk’s takeover of Twitter and since Zuckerberg’s censorship exposure, the old lag time has now been nearly eliminated and Brandeis’ dictum is still relevant.
Yes, it boils down to the responsibility of the people that run social media platforms to adhere to free speech. The politically biased overlords are not capable of providing and protecting that responsibility, the Constitution provides those guidelines as an operational framework.
Restricting speech as both Twitter and Facebook did allowed for corrupt government interference as censorship to sway an election. My opinion is that if these platforms operate on a federally funded platform in any way, they should be mandated to the requirements and limits of the first amendment.
Let’s assume we stretched Defamation Law to include intentionally duping the public for political advantage. It’s not just that fast-due-diligence could be used to quickly evaporate the screen of secrecy behind which the infowarrior hides their activities. Under this tort law, media orgs that act in sympathy with the deceitful infowarrior to extend the reach of the falsehood could be named in the lawsuit.
That would provide a strong deterrent to media cozying up with political partisans to dupe the public.
One example of J6 injustice: A fireman from Havertown PA was arrested for killing Office Sicknick by hitting him in the head with a fire extinguisher. Of course, the autopsy told a different story: the officer died of natural causes with no evidence of physical assault. I don’t know how long it took for the accused man to be released, or whether he was compensated for the false arrest.
Wait a sec…was he arrested for killing Sicknick, or for hitting him on the head with a fire extinguisher? I don’t remember any murder charges having been filed. Your defense for a felony assault is autopsy evidence indicating “the head blow didn’t kill him”?
“Wait a sec…was he arrested for killing Sicknick, or for hitting him on the head with a fire extinguisher?”
Wait a sec… did that arrest occur BEFORE or MONTHS AFTER the Capitol Police finally stopped concealing the fact they knew within a day that Sicknick died of a stroke that had absolutely nothing to do with head trauma?
Is this our best attempt at defending our Democrat police state fascism and Democrat Different Double Standards™?
Asking for honest Anonymous Democrat friends…
The death of Officer Brian Sicknick was preventable, predictable and misreported. He died due to medmal. When brought to the local hospital with symptoms consistent with brain stroke, the hospital staff did nothing. He died 23 hours after being brought to the hospital ED. IIRC he had just broken up with his girlfriend though she still took care of his dogs at his apartment when he worked long shifts. I dont recall if his parents or siblings were involved in his life. If so they should sue for medmal….unless if Biden’s regime told them to accept their talking points.
Brian Sicknick did not have to die while at a hospital but he did because they did nothing for him. That is the real scandal here, that and the MSM/DNC using his death for political talking points narrative.
Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick Died of Strokes After Jan. 6 Riot
D.C.’s Office of the Chief Medical Examiner said Monday that Sicknick’s cause of death was “acute brainstem and cerebellar infarcts due to acute basilar artery thrombosis,” and the manner of death was “natural,” not a homicide, the Washington Post first reported……According to a timeline of events from officials, Sicknick was sprayed with a chemical substance outside the U.S. Capitol at about 2:20 p.m. during the Jan. 6 riot. He collapsed at the Capitol that night about 10 p.m. and was taken to a hospital by D.C. Fire and EMS. Sicknick died at a hospital about 9:30 p.m. the following night, Jan. 7.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210519083628/https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/capitol-police-officer-brian-sicknick-died-of-strokes-after-jan-6-riot/2645278/
Treatment:
Endovascular Therapy for Basilar Artery Occlusion
Based on current evidence, EVT is highly effective in BAO patients with moderate-to-severe deficits and limited early ischemic changes within 24 hours of symptom onset. The treatment effect of EVT in BAO is similar to what has been shown in anterior circulation strokes; therefore, EVT should not be withheld in eligible BAO patients. Intravenous thrombolysis, when administered, may work in synergy with EVT and might be the best option as monotherapy for patients with milder or less-disabling symptoms,56 although further studies are warranted on the use of EVT in patients with minor deficits and the use of extended window intravenous thrombolysis in BAO.
Alemseged, F., et al. (2023) Endovascular therapy for basilar artery occlusion. Stroke, 54(4), pp.1127-1137.
An intriguing view and data but posterior circulation strokes are notoriously difficult to treat. Using thrombolytics are useful, especially in the anterior circulation, but a key question is often whether the stroke was cause by a clot or ischemia. Clot induced strokes have a tendency to bleed into the brain when thrombolytics or anticoagulants are subsequently used for treatment. On the other hand an ischemic stroke such as caused by small artery occluding may not bleed when antocoagulants and thrombolytics are used. The key is knowing which it was. If there was history of trauma then that has to be tracked down and eliminated as a possibility before giving the thrombolytics and /or anticoagulant otherwise a stroke turns into a intracranial bleed which is catastrophic. Answers are often not found except at autopsy. Making the decision is the biggest stumbling block and cause of delay.
key question is often whether the stroke was cause by a clot or ischemia.
Strokes can be ischemic ( >85%) or Hemorrhagic (~15%). Ischemic strokes can be Thrombotic strokes (occlusion in the brain) or Embolic strokes (occlusion outside brain that travels to brain). Ischemia, blockage, clot, and occlusion are synonymous in strokes
https://www.texasheart.org/heart-health/heart-information-center/topics/types-of-strokes/
In my experience, the ED physicians are fairly attuned to stroke symptoms and know to order a stat MRI. If present, they would have known in seconds with the MRI and take action immediately. This is what happened to me last summer when ED physicians suspected I was having a stroke. Thankfully they learned, after imaging, that it was Bells Palsy. I had a dx in less than 1 hour upon being rushed to the university ED.
He was in Washington DC not BFE Georgia. DC hospital EDs would have known next steps upon his arrival.
The autopsy would have revealed significant history but it has to be recorded by the medical examiner. We know from George Floyd’s autopsy that the two MEs reported details disparately.
Ausman JI, et al. (2018) A review of the diagnosis and management of vertebral basilar (posterior) circulation disease. Surg Neurol Int. 24;9:106. doi: 10.4103/sni.sni_373_17.
As I have written previously, Officer Sicknick’s catastrophic stroke occurred in January 2021, soon after the government’s frenzy to compel all federal employees to be given the COVID vaccine. Subsequently the risk of ischemic and hemorrhagic stroke following some COVID vaccine preparations was identified. Since HIPAA protects public access to his medical record (even after death) the Sicknick family should voluntarily document if Officer Sicknick received, or did not receive, a COVID vaccine in the days, weeks, or months before his unfortunate death.
IIRC Venus, Mars, Mercury and Pluto were aligned on the night Sicknick was admitted to the hospital but Saturn shifted in its orbit causing Neptune to skip its trajectory, with the unfortunate result that the dish ran away with the Moon.
but yeah, LOCO vaccines do lead to erectile dysfunction so IMO you have a limp argument
Estovir-Your points are well taken and I am familiar with the Texas Heart Institute which you quote above since I trained there some time ago.
The point I would make is that the embolic strokes (often from atrial fibrillation) and other sources can and often do result in intracranial bleeding with catastrophic results after being given thrombolytics or anticoagulants and Ischemic strokes tend to not have intracranial bleeding even when those same modalities are used .
But that is usually the answer and there can be crossover.
Many ER’s have CT scans ready to go 24 hours per day but many large centers do not have MRI’s ready to go on a 24 hr basis. A CT can suffice in some instances but not all and the MRI is needed. Why the delay in this case, I cannot answer. You would need all the ER notes, doctors notes and time stamped CT and MRI studies and clotting studies. Even in protocol driven procedures and treatments. You also have variability in physician responses. And sometimes you have missed readings and mistakes. I have seen large intracranial, post trauma bleeds missed on CT’s and MRI’s read by Board Certified Neuroradiologists. Or head trauma on an alcoholic never even given a CT in a university ER when that is the classic case of a CT or MRI being required. Alcoholic-drunk-falls-altered mental status-next step MRI or CT required but sometimes not done and just “observed”.
So I would say MR Sicknick’s case would require a medical malpractice case being filed and then try to discover the truth. There maybe malpractice there and maybe not. The answer and the process to that answer is unclear.
i read the following CNN article several months ago and posted parts of it here when we had the discussion then about Brian Sicknick. Here’s an important excerpt that I believe supports my argument that they did nothing for Mr. Sicknick. While the ex-gf gives an emotional recounting, it would be helpful to get the EMR and read what they did for him upon arrival till death the next day. Given the following, it appears not much other than put him on a vent. Mortality rate of basilar artery thrombosis untreated is quite high. Treated however, survival IIRC is >65%. Why wasn’t he treated? They had 23 hours FFS. What was their differential dx? We will never know due to the political machinations at play.
When I arrived at the ER, there was no one there to greet me. I told a woman behind a desk why I was there. She asked me to sign in and sit down. I explained the severity of the situation, trying my best to remain calm. Thankfully, the kindness of the state trooper helped ground me in a very agonizing, frustrating moment.
Eventually, I was greeted by the ER physician who told me the terrible news that Brian was on a ventilator and I could not see him because of Covid restrictions. I notified Brian’s mother, who immediately drove with her sister to the hospital. They also were not allowed to see Brian. The rest of his family soon arrived. Brian died the next day.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/23/opinions/brian-sicknick-partner-grief-garza/index.html
NB: I don’t think commenter, Diogenes, will mind my revealing to you, since he disclosed it to me years ago on here, that he was a patient of Dr Denton Cooley. I can’t recall his age at the time or the procedure. CABG? I trained under a cardiothoracic surgeon at University of Florida who trained under Dr Cooley Texas Heart. small world
“The death of Officer Brian Sicknick was preventable, predictable and misreported. He died due to medmal.”
Interesting comment since Sicknick was located close to several hospitals having specific staff for that type of care. The injection timing might have been wrong but not the surgery. Do you know the name of the hospital he went to and the particular details of his treatment?
details of tx are protected by HIPPA. Otherwise any DC area hospital would have been capable.
I know years ago 24/7 availability of neurosurgeons was lacking in many areas. Do all hospitals have adequate neurosurgical coverage today? There is a lot of talk about healthcare insurance and regulation so I wonder how much effort is expended in making sure there is adequate coverage of physicians and equipment.
S.Meyer-in response to your question-It depends. Sometimes there is on site Neurosurgery support and sometimes it’s located at another hospital and there may be transport of the patient to the neurosurgeon or the neurosurgeon goes to the patient. Neurosurgery is more likely than many specialties to have significant holes in coverage in various areas and then you have to account for the neurosurgeon’s training and experience. They vary. Coverage is far from perfect and also depends on the injury and the need for rapidity of treatment. Lots of caveats, unfortunately.
Lots of caveats, unfortunately.
Medicine today is nothing of what it was like when I started in 1990s. I told myself I would never become the bitter, burnt out physician that is well characterized in the literature. I’m not burnout. I love what I do and will practice medicine, with God’s blessing, into my 90s like Dr Cooley and Dr DeBakey. I a presently sitting on a hospital floor killing time after having a heavy talk with the director of translational medicine cardiology. Topic? Cardiologists are leaving medicine. Faculty are over it.
I am intimately familiar with the charlie foxtrot that medicine has become today, and it’s only getting worse. Add COVID to the mix, as with Brian Sicknick’s case, and no doubt the physicians were paralyzed in their thinking, action or/and decision making. Who knows what forces were breathing down their backs from Biden’s killing machine. May God have mercy on Biden and all of his enablers for doing this to America
GEB, I thank you and Estovir for the information. My view of medicine today is that we would be moving backward without high-tech developments. Years ago, malpractice ate up the neurosurgeons where I lived. I am upset at what I see happening to the medical profession. Both of you stick firmly to the previous ideas of what a doctor should be. Congrats.
Estovir,
Thank you for providing the facts to debunk the anonymoron lies.
Pelosi’s failure to properly staff security for the building is a contributing factor. Had there been adequate security, this event would have remained entirely peaceful. We still don’t know exactly what role 26 government employees played in the crowd. Also, Harris raised funds for the defense of the “summer of love’s” “mostly peaceful demonstrations” across the country. How were the participants entering the Capitol, let in by guards and guided through the building by guards, to know that they would be treated differently and become victims of Biden’s lawfare?
Even in today’s WSJ, commenters discussed the deaths of police officers and guards caused by the “insurrectionists” in the Capitol. People are confused about what actually happened.
Yes the Capitol building is different from the various downtowns that were destroyed by rioters, but the death and destruction and injuries that were not prosecuted during those riots were treated very differently from this event.
Hopefully the Trump team properly vetted the pardons.
“People are confused about what actually happened. ”
Nobody working in “news” for the Wall Street Journal is at all “confused about what actually happened”. They are being paid to lie through their teeth.
The crowd was peaceful until the police started firing flash bangs, rubber bullets, tear gas etc into the crowd. One cannot discount the number of plants in the crowd dressed in MAGA gear with specific intent on causing the crowd to respond. They never went to prison. Why? Nor can anyone discount the denial of National Guard that Trump explicitly asked for more than once. This was a set up from the beginning. Videos were taken out of context. The police were assaulting the protesters, not the other way around. Just another of the giant injustices inflicted from the corrupt politicians, media, and corrupt departments that was the entire legacy of the Biden Administration by whomever and whatever was controlling the actions for 4 years. We all know it wasn’t Biden. We all know he was unable to tie his shoes from day one. Another example of the total corruption exhibited by the left, pretending he could think for 4 years.
Pelosi’s intent was to incite a riot to use the results against candidate Trump. If that isn’t crystal clear you have mud in your eyes. The ultimate form of election interference.
Traveler, I usually agree with you and I agree with your basic sentiment, but “candidate” Trump is absurd since the election was two months prior to the event and I don’t think she was considering 2024.
Of course she knew he was not going away. It was a continuation of the subversion and smear campaign that these communist Democrats (I don’t know how to describe them) had carried out against him for his entire presidency. When have you ever witnessed a Speaker mock the President and tear up the State of the Union speech in the People’s House? Subversion and Treason
Although I do agree that there were hundreds of bogus convictions and outlandish sentences, I do hope that there was discretion and each case taken individually. If someone did assault a peace officer, unprovoked, I would have a problem with that. We can not give the left one shred of fodder. I know…they are the lowest of the low, but like Michelle Obama famously said “When they go low, we go high”. Only difference is , that we are actually capable of doing that, and they are not.
Peace officer, that day. It was the police who started and carried out the assaults.
Why did the crowd go beserk exactly at 2:24? Hmmm. Trump “primes” those at the Ellipse “Stop the Steal” rally to expect Mike Pence to throw the EC Count in Trump’s favor, and declare him the certified winner. “It will be wild” refers to a lawyerly coup at the Capitol, and inviting the throngs of MAGA supporters to be there to witness “history”. Never mind that Pence had made clear to Trump in a phone call before the Ellipse speech, “Forget it”.
So, in the afternoon, Trump is watching the Congressional proceedings on Fox News, and it becomes painfully clear to him that Pence wasn’t bluffing. So, Trump puts out a tweet at 2:25 demonizing Pence as having “betrayed us”. The peaceful protest turns violent upon receiving this tweet.
But, yeah, in response, the police fired tear gas and rubber bullets. The cops started it.
1984 has arrived. All beliefs are mere playthings in the hands of the zealous activist. Facts don’t exist.
ATS the police first accidentally tear gassed themselves. After that they lobbed a tear gas grenade into the midst of a peaceful crowd that was NOT trying to get into the capitol.
The crowd responded – not with Violence, but trying to flee the Tear Gas Grenade in every direction, When they pushed into barriers to escape the tear gas they were beaten.
That is what the video shows. Does that explain absolutely everything ? No.
But it is the start of the violence, and it was lied about by the media, the left, democrats, DOJ FBI and the CP for almost 3 years.
Nor is it the only lie told by the same actors.
But those we are supposed to trust to do justice.
You want to rant about Trump and Pence and the 2020 election.
Yet you fail to grasp that it is the same people that we KNOW have lied to us about not just J6 – but a long long long list of even more important thing,
That are the people telling us that the Election was free from fraud.
Why are we to trust people who have lied about everything ?
You rant that all this was investigated and Trump was found to be wrong.
But it was not investigated, and those claiming that Trump was wrong about the election are the same ones who have been wrong about a long list of other things.
Worse still these are the very people who gave power – the ability to use force to adjudicate truth, and over and over we have seen the DOJ, FBI Judges and courts abue that power.
and amplify LIES.
Most people simply do not beleive them or you anymore.
“You do not matter anymore”.
You and those you rely on – those YOU trust are the boy who cried wolf.
You had better hope that Donald Trump is not the wolf. Because help is not coming.
You have lied too much. No one beleives you.
scpatriot1956 is used to agree. But no more.
We do not and may never know the truth about J6. What we know has come from the media, democrats, the FBI, DOJ judges and juries that have all lied to us repeatedly.
They have lied about J6. They have lied about a long long list of other things.
How do we know that someone assaulted a police officer ? We can not know whether those accused did what they were accused of or they were defending themselves or others.
There are likely protestors on J6 that initiated violence. But there are with certainty many who responded to the violence of police officers.
There is video of a CP officer pummelling Rose Boylan to death while she was down on the ground. People who came to her aide were beaten.
That is one example.
We Know that the CP at the est tunnel where nearly all the violence took place were incompetent. That before there was any violence. Before anyone tried to enter the Capitol, the CP first accidentally tear gassed themselves and ten lobbed a tear gas grenade into the crowd. We know that the violence started as the CP started beating those who were fleeing from the Tear Gas Grenade.
An adage of the law is that it is better than 10 guilty people go free than that one innocent man is punished.
The best resolution for J6 is for Trump to pardon all the protestors.
Finding the truth may not be possible. Further no one deserves more punishment than these people have already received.
Biden has opened the way for real investigations by pardoning the capitol police and the J6 committee.
Whatever you beleive about the truth or culpability of those Biden pardoned, they are all now Free to testify to the TRUTH, without fear of prosecution.
They do not need and do not have fifth amendment protection. They can not be prosecuted for what they did previously. They can not be prosecuted unless they lie.
SC, I would almost always agree with you but the UNEQUAL justice is what begs for action here. Police officers were injured all over the county in 2020 including at the WH in May of that year…with no such prosecutions. THAT IS THE ISSUE HERE!
hullbobby: absolutely correct. Also, https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/biden-lets-cop-killer-dangerous-criminals [“the “Waverly Two”]-walk-free-in-last-minute-clemency-action/ar-AA1xx55U
Anyone who was convicted of violence associated with J6 has been in jail for about 4 years.
The lawyers who threw molatov cocktails into occupied police cars got 9-18 months of probation.
I can not think of a J6 related allegation that 4yrs is not sufficient punishement.
Separately we KNOW that none of these people got fair trials. Even guilty people are entitled to a fair trial and conviction for crimes they committed, rather than anything alleged.
What allegation are you aware of that would not support commutation now ?
“How the Justice Department Made the Case for the J6 Pardons”
There, fixed it for you…
God Bless Donald J. Trump !
God Bless the United States of America!
Bring on the clown commenters…