MSNBC analyst and former Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill has long been criticized for unhinged rhetoric. That was evident on “Morning Joe” recently when McCaskill said that the deportation of alleged Venezuelan gang members was akin to Putin “disappearing” people. It is not the first such analogy by McCaskill, who has called those opposing the censorship under the Biden Administration “Putin lovers.” However, just for the record, Putin does not generally disappear people by putting them on flights back to their countries. He tends more toward nerve agents than immigration agents to remove people.
McCaskill’s comments have been echoed by others on the left, even before the election. On ABC’s “The View,” Whoopi Goldberg told viewers how Trump is already committed to being a dictator who will “put you people away … take all the journalists … take all the gay folks … move you all around and disappear you.”
I have expressed concerns over the alleged failure to comply with the order of U.S. District Judge James “Jeb” Boasberg in his order to stop such flights and return those in transit. To the extent that the White House is arguing that this is a non-justiciable matter, that is an argument to raise on appeal. I have criticized some judges for intrusion into areas of presidential discretion. However, the Trump Administration would only undermine such cases by defying court orders.
Trump struck the perfect tone after coming into office by pledging to comply with opposing court orders while appealing them. That is what he did in his first term with considerable success.
Nevertheless, the analogy of McCaskill is the latest example of the rising hysteria on the left. She stated on MSNBC:
“We’ve got to make sure that people cannot be picked up and disappeared like his buddy Putin does. Like his buddy. He does like his buddy Xi does, like his biddy Kim Jong Un does. They do this? They disappear people and many times murder them. So we’re not going to go down that road. I don’t care how much the president screams irresponsibly about impeachment, there’s no way.”
McCaskill tends to paint those with opposing views as Nazis or Putin sympathizers. After one hearing (where I also testified against the censorship system under the Biden Administration), McCaskill appeared on MSNBC to denounce the witnesses (Sen. Chuck Grassley, Sen. Ron Johnson, and former Rep. Gabbard) as “Putin apologists” and Putin lovers. She exclaimed, “I mean, look at this, I mean, all three of those politicians are Putin apologists. I mean, Tulsi Gabbard loves Putin.”
She has also said that Trump is “more dangerous than Hitler” — a person who committed the genocide of millions and triggered a war killing tens of millions. Yeah, that Hitler.
The problem with the escalating rhetoric is that there is nowhere to go from here. You jumped the shark. What is left after saying that Trump is more dangerous than Hitler and is disappearing people like Putin? That leaves only Ebola and cholera.
There is a danger to such “rage rhetoric” when it gives a license to others to take violent action, including attempting to assassinate a justice or a president. Indeed, once the left hit the maximal level of panic politics, you cannot ratchet down without being yourself subject to attack from the mob. You have to keep the rhetoric at a DEFCON 1 level.
There is another possibility worth considering. Every administration has come into power with sweeping changes. They are hashed out in the courts. If history is any guide, it is likely that Trump will win many but also lose some of these cases. That includes challenges to the authority of courts.
You can criticize these moves without reaching for the Hitler and Putin analogies. We have the most stable, most successful constitutional system in the history of the world. This is no constitutional crisis. We have this. Our constitution and courts will resolve any conflicts and we will continue as a free people. The only thing likely to “disappear” are the ratings and viewers of networks who traffic in rage rhetoric and panic politics.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro professor of public interest law at George Washington University and the author of “The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage.”
Jonathan: When DJT illegally used the Alien Enemies Act to round up Venezuelan immigrants, put them on planes to El Salvador where they were put in a black hole super max prison–all in violation of the due process rights in the 14th Amendment–now I would call that “disappearing”!
Now all of DJT’s unlawful actions may not be in the style of Putin. It’s more like Stalin who sent millions of Russians to the gulags in Siberia. The more important Q is if DJT is willing to round up immigrants, many of whom may turn out not to be “criminal predators” and were here under TPS or who hold green cards, what is prevent DJT from rounding up regular US citizens and putting them in gulags like El Salvador? Nothing, except push back by federal judges like Chief Judge Boasberg!
Good. They are violent and dangerous criminals. Many have committed murder. We don’t need that trash in the US.
The immigrants we need are like scientists my wife (a scientist) works with. They come from Poland, Italy, China, Korea, Japan, Spain, Portugal, Israel, Germany, etc. They do REAL science (vs so much of the pointless liberal fake-science) such as working on congenital heart defects, scoliosis, and other serious medical conditions. That’s the immigration we want — the best and the brightest, not the worst and the dumbest.
“When DJT illegally used the Alien Enemies Act to round up Venezuelan immigrants, put them on planes to El Salvador where they were put in a black hole super max prison–all in violation of the due process rights in the 14th Amendment–now I would call that “disappearing”!”
You can not illegally use the AEA as president – it is possible that you can improperly do so. But from the facts that does not seem to be the case.
These were not venezeualn immigrants – did ANY of them have visa’s or Green Cards ? Were any of them not from the Tren De Argugua Venezeualn prison gang ?
The ACLU brought this case representing 5 Of them – claiming they were not Tren De Aruagua members – I am fine with that, just as I am fine with the ACLU once defending Nazi’s rights to march through Skokie.
The case that Judge Boasberg had legitimately in front of him was about the TDA membership of 5 o the several hundred people being deported.
He had no authority with respect to the remaining deporties – there was no valid case or controversy before him involving those.
He had no authority over the flight to el salvador broadly. Only whether the 5 individuals that ACLU was representing were on board.
Without addressing the AEA – there are almost no “due process” rights for people in the US who are not citizens, do not have residence status or do not have a visa. Towards the start of his presidency Trump issued the apprpriate EO’s and invoked the appropriate declarations to allow the deportation of people inside the US illegally anywhere in the US with ICE constrained solely to establishing in court whether those it was seeking to deport were in the US legally – i.e. Did they have citizenship, residence status, or a visa. To this point he has mostly limited deportations to those who have final deportation orders against them – nearly all of which were issued during Bidens presidency, and known criminals – people who where charged with crimes in the US or convicted of crimes in other countries.
If a final deportation order has been issued – the federal courts have ZERO jurisdiction over the case – Final Deportation orders are issued by the courts – One Federal Judge can not overrule the final orders of another – that is done solely by appellate courts.
Most of those on these planes had final deportation orders issued – most by judges during Bidens presidency.
There are currently 1.3M illegal immigrants int he US with final deportations orders issued – at the current rate, ICE will not be through deporting them for a long time. Regardless those 1/3M people have had all the Due Process they are entitled to.
Todate NO Judge has been stupid enough to challenge Trump’s deportation of anyone on any basis – because two centuries of law are very clear on this. When a Final deportation order has been issued – ICE can pick you up and put you on a plane and the courts are DONE.
The case in front of Boasberg was NOT about the AEA, it was solely about are 5 people the specific people that ICE claimed they were.
The case was a claim that ICE was deporting the wrong 5 people – nothing more.
Article III of the Constitution limits the jurisdiction of courts to cases and controversies – this is where the doctrine of standing comes from.
Several posters on the Right are demanding to know Why Judge Boasberg did not stop a bunch of things that he KNEW were wrong such as perjured testimony before congress. The reason for that is that Judges in the US are have no police power – they can not investigate, they can not order investigations, Judges in the US are not prosecutors – they can only hear the cases that are brought before them and only if the plantiffs have standing.
Judge Boasberg’s authority on the instant case – was limited to the 5 people the ACLU was representing.
It was further limited solely to ascertaining they were who ICE claimed they were – on establishing that his jurisdiction was DONE.
It is NOT a complex or difficult question of law or constitution to determine the boundaries of the judges jurisdiction in this case – or pretty much any other case. When a judge acts outside their jurisdiction THEY act illegally – not the parties.
As to the AEA
Tren De Arugua members were released from a Venezeulan prison into the US by order of President Madoru of Venezeulla – that is an act of war and is more than sufficient to invoke the AEA, though that is not the only basis for the use of the AEA.
Those on the left constantly claim that the AEA requires congress to declare war – Read it, it does not.
It was passed in 1798 while Adam’s was president, and Adam’s used it to deport people – the US was not at war in 1798. It was also used by Truman AFTER the end of WWII – that is where the 1950 case where SCOTUS stated clearly that there is no judicial review over the AEA.
The more Rational left wing nuts ARE correct that Boasberg could ask the administration for proof that the criteria for invoking the AEA were met. But he authority was limited to verifying that the administration ASERTED the required elements for invoking the AEA – lack of judicial review means that if the Administration claimed that Maduro ordering TDA prisons released and sent to the US was an act of war, that the court could only determine if that event actually occured. Another requirement of the AEA is a proclamation by the president – that had occurred more than a month earlier – Boasberg had the authority to assure the proclamation – but not to challenge its legitimacy. That is what non-reviewable means. Boasberg also had the authority to verify that the 5 plantiffs were who ICE claimed they were – that authority rests on Habeus Corpus which is the only authority that courts have over non-citizens illegally in the US – essentially verifying that they are non-citizens and that they are not here legallly.
Regardless, Boasberg claimed jurisdiction he did not have – whether the AEA was at issue or not.
Now he is claiming that the administration violated an illegal court order he issued – Both Trump and DOJ have confirmed – they will and did comply with the orders of his court and others whether they beleive they are illegal or not.
Boasberg held a hearing on this and DOJ established that his docketed order was not issued until it was too late.
Trump and DOJ have REPEATEDLY done what another federal Judge in RI called “Maliciously following judicial orders”.
That is they obey them to the letter – not the spirit and when they are narrowly written and leave giant loopholes – they exploit them, when they broadly written and following them creates failures – they follow them to the letter and allow the failures to happen.
IN the USAID case – the judge ordered the administration not to “pause” USAID spending – so Trump and Rubio cancelled all the contracts. leaving the judge only with jurisdiction over payment for contracted services for the 2 weeks the pasue was in effect before contracts were cancelled. Now another federal judge thinks he will do better than novice Judge Ali and has ordered USAID reopened, all contracts restored, and employees rehired and precluded the executive from action without the permission of the previously fired director. Only a left wing nut thinks this order will survive very long. It is highly unlikely that any USAID contractor will take payments or restart work – if they do so they risk spending money and never getting paid.
John Say, “Without addressing the AEA – there are almost no “due process” rights for people in the US who are not citizens, do not have residence status or do not have a visa.”
Wrong, everyone has due process rights here. Even those who are not citizens, do not have residence status, or those who don’t have a visa. Even Justice Scalia made that point clear.
“He had no authority with respect to the remaining deporties – there was no valid case or controversy before him involving those.
He had no authority over the flight to el salvador broadly. Only whether the 5 individuals that ACLU was representing were on board.”
He did have authority. Because the DOJ was not being forthright with the information the judge was asking for and the DOJ’s constantly changing rationales he could not trust that the DOJ was being honest.
Trump invoked the AEA on 167 deportees and there was no way to tell if they were all really gang members or not. He had the authority to order the flights back because the aircraft are still U.S. entities in possession of the deportees. It did not matter if they were over international waters or not.
Dennis – how stupid are you ?
Lets skip arguments over legal details.
Do you honestly beleive that it is a good idea to thwart the deportation of Tren De Arugua and MS-13 members ?
You can try to spin this as Venezeulan immigrants – but people are not stupid.
You can make this about due process – but there is no claim that due process was violated. The ACLU merely claimed 5 people were not who ICE said they were – so Boasberg could have ordered them off the plane IMMEDIATELY and held hearings later – that would have been an appropriate use of judicial power.
But so long as those 5 people were who ICE claimed they were they were going to be deported.
Are you trying to claim that the president does not have the power to remove illegal alien criminals from the US ?
With near 100% certainty there will be another Lake Reily instance – the odds are about 100% .
What those of you on the left have done is absolutely assured that you OWN it when it does occur.
You, Boasberg, the left, democrats will be called rapists and murders the moment that occurs.
Contra the claims of the left – Trump is playing you incredibly well.
Trump is repeatedly saying that he will obey all these lawless judicial orders and appeal them in court.
He has made an issue of the lawlessness of the courts – and your lawfare against him and others while running for president merely amplifies the presumption of lawlessness by the people regarding you, democrats, the left and the courts.
Roberts screwed up – he is on his back foot and lashing out at the wrong people.
I do not beleive that any of these judges will be impeached and removed.
I am not sure any of them will be impeached.
But contra Roberts there is absolutely nothing wrong with calling for an threatening impeachment.
Impeachment is a check on a rogue judiciary. The call for impeachment of judges is a call to Roberts and the other rational judges on the courts to end this lunacy and reign in these lawless idiots before the legitimacy of the courts erodes further.
Trump is going to inevitably win most of the legal battles and when he does – that undermines the legitimacy of the courts and the left and democrats even further. Worse – even the cases he is likely to lose – like the birth right citizenship EO are still political wins.
“Do you honestly beleive that it is a good idea to thwart the deportation of Tren De Arugua and MS-13 members ?”
Nobody is saying they should be deported. You’re misising the bigger point.
“You can make this about due process – but there is no claim that due process was violated. The ACLU merely claimed 5 people were not who ICE said they were – so Boasberg could have ordered them off the plane IMMEDIATELY and held hearings later – that would have been an appropriate use of judicial power.”
It IS about due process. They ARE claiming due process was not followed because Trump used the AEC incorrectly. ICE was already rushing to send those immigrants to El Salvador. By the time the judge would have made a ruling he would have been too late to get them off the planes. That was the intent. That’s why the judge ordered the planes turned around and Trump used a pathetic excuse that a judge’s orders are not valid unless they are written down.
Trump deliberately ignored that order and now it’s about finding out exactly what did the Trump administration do when he gave that order and finding out if they lied to the judge. That the DOJ is invoking states secrets and claims to not be able to produce information about the flights because it’s classified didn’t fly with the judge given that Rubio has been talking about them publicly.
“With near 100% certainty there will be another Lake Reily instance – the odds are about 100% .
What those of you on the left have done is absolutely assured that you OWN it when it does occur.
You, Boasberg, the left, democrats will be called rapists and murders the moment that occurs.”
That’s not going to happen. You are assuming that those who have not been deported and are still in custody are somehow gonna be released? Those kinds of hysterics don’t help your argument.
“ Trump is repeatedly saying that he will obey all these lawless judicial orders and appeal them in court.“
And that’s why the judge wants the DOJ to answer his questions. To find out if Trump did obey his orders. Obviously he didn’t. Trump lied. Why is the DOJ having a hard time answering the judge’s questions? They know they lied to the judge and now the judge is seeking answers to show they did indeed lied to him. Trump is the one being lawless.
“Roberts screwed up – he is on his back foot and lashing out at the wrong people.”
No, Trump screwed up by demanding the judge be impeached because Trump did not like that the judge stopped his deportations. He had the authority to do that.
“ I do not beleive that any of these judges will be impeached and removed.
I am not sure any of them will be impeached.
But contra Roberts there is absolutely nothing wrong with calling for an threatening impeachment.“
It doesn’t matter what you think. Trump as president calling for the impeachment of a judge because he doesn’t like his ruling is wrong because he’s threatening the judiciary if they don’t to things his way. You would never stand for it if it were Biden issuing and demanding impeachment threats on conservative judges. Never.
“Trump is going to inevitably win most of the legal battles and when he does – that undermines the legitimacy of the courts and the left and democrats even further.”
That’s a lot of faith in failing arguments. Trump is losing in the polls and republicans are facing angry voters in townhalls everyday. That is not a good sign. Hubris tends to blind people into a false sense of assurance. Trump and his acolytes are no excemption.
Dennis – Trump has rope-a-doped you.
No one beleives you are championing the rights of innocent people.
On issue after issue – you are fighting to stop something people want.
You are NOT fighting to do so more lawfully,
You are not fighting to protect people actually being treated unfairlyYou are fighting to delay the inevitable.
You are fighting to delay cutting wasteful and fraudulent programs.
You are fighting to delay cutting corrupt political kickbaks.
You are fighting to delay deportation of violent criminals.
You have CHOSEN to fight for Tren De Araugua.
You claim even they are entitled to “due process” – and that is true, but the due process that illegal immigrants are legally entitled to is very limited. It amounts to establishing that they are not in the US legally. That is all.
you make these broad claims that the Trump administration is rounding up people and deporting them.
But you keep getting caught fighting to prevent things that people WANT, that Trump promised to do, and that the president can legally do.
The 3 planes that went to El Salvador had mostly Tren De Argugua members – these are people who were released from Jail in Venezuella on the condition that they “invade” the US. The rest are MS-13 gang members who had been convicted of crimes in the US.
All or nearly all of these people had deportation orders already issued by US courts.
Where is the due process that Trump violated ?
You rant about TPS – TPS is a fictional status created by Biden in executive order.
Trump rescinded it – there is no TPS status. Further the T is for Temporary.
If Biden wanted these people to be able to stay in the US he could have issued them permanent residence status,
he did not.
You rant about Musk auditing government spending. REALLY ?
is there some due process requirement to audit government spending ?
You wanted to jail Trump because he tagged payments to a lawyer as legal expenses – Treasury is not tagging most of its payments with anything – can we jail the department of treasury ?
In what world is it that you beleive that audits are conducted by those being audited ?
Of COURSE you bring someone from the outside in to audit. Atleast that is what you do if you actually want to find waste fraud and corruption – and plenty has been found.
Do you have a single instance in which the 100’s of lawsuits you have filed has prevented Trump from doing something that was actually wrong ?
What is the great thing Judge Boasberg tried to do ?
Stop a plane loads of Tren De Arugua and MS-13 gang members from being deported to El Salvado ?
What great injustice has Boasberg thwarted ?
You spin this as these were somehow innocent Venezuelans. So establish that ?
Most of these people had outstanding deportation orders – most by the Biden admin.
all of these people were Tren De Arugua or MS-13 most had been picked up and inprissoned int he US for crimes committed here.
There have been very few deportations of non-criminals todate – and those have been primarily people caught up in raids targeting criminals.
On Jan 21, 2025 there were 1.3M deportations orders, for each of those people due process has been fully exhausted.
It will take ICE more than a year at current rates to get through those deportations – by which time there will be more than a million further deportation orders.
John Say, I didn’t take you for the gaslighting kind. But you sure are going hard on it today.
“Stop a plane loads of Tren De Arugua and MS-13 gang members from being deported to El Salvado ?”
Nobody knows who was on those planes. The DOJ refuses to name who was on them and if they were all members of Tren de Aragua. That’s the point. Trump used the AEA to bypass due process to many of them so he could deport them faster and that is illegal.
“There have been very few deportations of non-criminals todate – and those have been primarily people caught up in raids targeting criminals.”
We don’t know that because the Trump administration is not sharing information, it’s not being transparent and that is why the judge is demanding answers from the Trump DOJ. They lied to the judge and Trump defied a court order despite saying he won’t.
Trump is not happy with the current rate of deportations. He wants them to move faster and by invoking the AEA he is hoping to dispense with the due process of most of them and bypass the legal process. It’s also costing a lot more than they anticipated because ICE has been begging congress for more money and they have already reached capacity and can’t hold any more. The solution, Trump is paying El Salvador to take as many as they can and as fast as they can before the courts can be involved. Now they are and Trump is upset because he’s been caught being lawless and violating the due process rights of immigrants.
“why the judge is demanding answers from the Trump DOJ. They lied to the judge and Trump defied a court order despite saying he won’t.”
Do we get to depart you, georgie, for defamation if Trump administration wins the appeal? No worry, we’ll give you due process, but not much is due for a person who spends his whole day searching for comments to try to tear apart.
Dear Prof Turley,
Just for the record, Trump is nothing like Nevile Chamberlain and Putin’s Russia is not remotely like Hitler’s Nazi Germany. That’s just another unhinged DNC talking point and a rather pronounced symptom of severe TDS.
Otoh, we’ve been in a ‘constitutional’ crisis ever since the Unitary Executive authority (i.e. VP Cheney) declared a global ‘war on terror’ back in 2001. According to the constitution only congress can declare war.
It’s one thing to declare war on ‘poverty’ (America’s oldest war), but the global war on terror has had extraordinary real-world consequences. Around 1,000 human beings were renditioned to Guantanamo Bay, with many tortured, all without charge.
*see also my book The Great 2001 Constitutional Space Odessey
It’s the reason president Trump and/or Sec. Rubio can now invoke war powers, suspend due process, revoke free speech protections and defy U.S. court orders.
*see you in court .. . I hope!
I agree that captured terrorists shouldn’t have been renditioned to Guantanamo Bay – although I disagree with your core belief that terrorists are human. What should have happened instead is that they should have been executed on the very spot they were captured.
Not to theoreticians: Terrorists are not protected by ANY of the Geneva Conventions (which they aren’t signatories to in the first place) nor the laws of war.
The laws of war are that they can be summarily executed.
Of course, to America’s theoreticians, if America followed the rules of war and summarily executed them – then they would be outraged that they hadn’t been renditioned to Guantanamo Bay or to face trial in Washington DC here inside America.
Trump is jealous of Putin who tells the Russian Central Bank how to run the currency, who tells judges how to decide cases, who can shut down any media that is critical of him, who can murder his opponents, and is the richest person on the planet. Putin is laughing his ass off that the best Trump can do is sell Bibles and shoes and lottery tickets to have dinner at Mara Lago while president.
“who can shut down any media that is critical of him”
???????? REALLY!!!!! Which media company/news channel/publication/ etc. has Trump shut down and put out of business? Give us the name of just one, commie! Or run away and hide with Dennis McIntyre after dropping your version of his daily deuces.
Democrat commies enraged that their DEI Hire Border Czar lost the election are so completely emotionally unhinged that they devoutly believe their strategy of “Russia, Russia, Russia” lies can STILL win them the 2024 election.
How dare McCaskill invoke the name of Putin, Donald Trump’s best friend!
Anonymous comments are those of a coward.
Truth hurts Greg. Keep believing Trump’s lies about Putin being trustworthy ad supporting Putin, while the Russian dictator murders his opponents. Any American who supports Trump’s “positive” relaitonship with Putin is a pos.
Just for old times sake, give us one more chorus from “Our Trump-Russia Dossier proves Trump worked with Putin to steal the 2016 election”. Now THAT kind of truth will really hurt Greg!
We should never forget that our “compassionate liberals” tried to assassinate Trump by spending every hour comparing him to Hitler, and proclaiming that he was about to “end democracy as we know it”. They knew that there are enough disturbed people out there to produce a couple of assassins. Our friendly Democrats are still trying to kill people by bringing “swat raids” on the homes of conservative media personalities. They hope that someone is going to be killed in one of these raids and that, as a consequence, other conservatives will be intimidated into silence. ( JT was the target of one these raids and he is not even a fully-developed conservative.)
Turley writes: “However, just for the record, Putin does not generally disappear people by putting them on flights back to their countries.” But, just for the record, these people were not sent back to Venezuela, but rather to prisons (of our contractor, El Salvador) without any semblance of due process. And I thought Trump was in favor of our great constitution.
A commie… claiming to have some concerns about the constitution. Or the targets of the Obama/Clinton/Biden/DNC FISA warrants based on the illegal “Trump-Russia Dossier” getting any semblance of due process.
I don’t think the commies pimping here for the Soviet Democrats know the first thing about either the Constitution or due process. Instead, they LOVE the Illegal Alien predators from central American gangs, and would do anything in their power to ensure they were safely back here in America to continue their predatory illegal behavior.
It’s time for some entertainment.
Here’s a Russian military music video. A great recruitment tool. This was filmed 18 years ago. Roll it.
A common theme from Leftists is that the illegal alien removal project will be too expensive so we should just let them become legal. THAT was precisely the intent of allowing all of those illegal aliens in in the first place. Naturalize them by autopen to become leftist voters. I’m tired of the Neo-Malthusian, Coudenhove-Kalergi-Cloward-Piven crap. Patriots cannot allow the Leftist plan to succeed. I don’t care if it is expensive and difficult, nothing worth doing that has long term value is ever simple or inexpensive.
Damned communist hive mind will never get anything right. Where’s my bug spray?
While I recognize the issue around what is justiciable and what is not, it is quickly getting to the point of obvious harassment as evidenced by reports of a TRO to stop the White House from adding a section of side walk in the Rose Garden to stop women in high heels from getting stuck in the mud. If a judge issues a TRO banning Trump from hosting foreign leaders, should he obey it until it’s adjudicated? There are so many activist judges, they could (and apparently are) issuing TROs on EVERYTHING. At some point, he has to cite the Constitution and move on. For all the talk of Trump defying the courts, at what point should they be defied because they are clearly acting beyond their authority?
Good point Jeff. I would like to see someone try to articulate the line between ridiculous orders that need not be followed and those that Trump should obey until reversed on appeal. If someone says, there are no orders that Trump should not follow pending appeal, your hypo is a good one to throw back at them. Or to make the point even more dramatic:
Suppose a federal district court judge issues an order declaring Trump not to be POTUS, and enjoins him from exercising any and all powers of the presidency. Should that order be obeyed pending iappeal?
Yes.
Wait, you’re serous? Then can you think of any order, no matter how absurd, that wouldn’t have to be obeyed? Like an order requiring Trump to travel to Antarctica and stay there for three weeks with no food? Would that also have to be obeyed?
That is literally how the American system of government works. If you don’t like it, amend the Constitution.
No that is not “literally” how our system of government works, and I don’t need to amend the Constitution. Under the Constitution as it presently exists, there are three co-equal branches of government. Not one is superior to the other. So if a judge says “The Executive Branch is now headed by me,” no rational person would think it’s “how it works” for the judge to take control of the executive. Same with a ridiculous order saying either “Trump must go to Antarctica and live there for three weeks without food,” or “Trump is not POTUS.” No rational person would think those types of orders have to be obeyed, or that it’s “how the system works” for them to be binding. Once an order crosses the line of legitimacy, it is a nullity.
The question I was trying to get someone to respond to is: can you think of a way of determining whether a particular order has crossed over that line and is facially invalid? The answers you and dgsnowden provided are dodging that question. They are cop-outs.
Absolutely not. Theoreticians/”libertarians” who demand the Constitution by an implement of suicide where the judicial branch somehow or other has the power to subvert and control the executive branch is why they and their theology will never gain traction in America.
” Theoreticians/”libertarians” who demand the Constitution by an implement of suicide where the judicial branch somehow or other has the power to subvert and control the executive branch”
What self-described libertarian (note the small “l”) said anything like that? I have been a libertarian for most of my adult life (call it 50 years), and I never believed anything remotely like that, nor did any other libertarian I have known or followed. A libertarian is more likely to prescribe a reading of the Constitution as optional than to make it out to be something that is to be enforced word by word, letter by letter. The Constitution provides (or at least previously provided) a very useful structure to protect the citizens of this nation from foreign domination, while drastically limiting the government’s own power over those citizens. That is the extent to which a true libertarian exalts the Constitution – it is not some religious artifact to blindly be worshiped. I have, in fact, preciously seen opinions from more that one prominent libertarian to the effect that the Constitution was binding only on those who were living when the politicians that ratified it were in power, on the theory that no one since that time has voluntarily assented to its supremacy. I don’t personally subscribe to that, as much on practical as on theoretical grounds, but I do consider the Constitution to be solely a control over institutions, and a pragmatic control, at that. Would all real libertarians agree with all I just wrote? Hell, no, libertarians seldom agree on anything. I think it is a far better example of a typical libertarian position regarding the Constitution than what you alluded to.
Old Man,
Perhaps that’s precisely where the left is headed with all these TROs — relegate President Trump to nothing more than a figurehead — maybe even less than that.
All of this is motivated by one thing, and one thing only — pure, unadulterated hatred for one man.
Where’s Congress in all this? They can, and should, reign in the rogue elements of our judiciary. Will they? I highly doubt it. Impeaching judge Boesberg, while that sounds appealing, isn’t practical. On the other hand, attaching riders to legislation which Dems really like, dealing with such rogue elements, forum-shopping, nationwide injunctions, etc, then forcing them to decide whether or not to support the bills (i.e. think Chuck Schumer and the recent CR, where he got backed into a corner, had to support it, and now fears for his own safety from Dems), that’s the best way to deal with this. As long as such legislation can’t be filibustered, it should be a slam-dunk.
If Congress fails to act, I fear we may be too late. Judging by CJ Roberts’ rebuke of the Trump admin, I’m left to conclude SCOTUS is perfectly OK with a rogue judiciary. Barring Congressional action, SCOTUS is our last best hope, and that could be fading fast.
Finally, to McCaskill, and others of your ilk — if you’re gunning for a 2nd civil war, with your rhetoric, all I can say is, be careful what you wish for, as you just might get it.
“You can criticize these moves without reaching for the Hitler and Putin analogies.”
Very true. But she can make such criticism any way she wants. Is Turley bothered by the idea that she made that choice? So what? She can absolutely do that. Those on the right can criticize the left without reaching for the Marxist, Socialist, and racist analogies too. I don’t see Turley whining about that either. He was just looking for an excuse to use a democrat to mildly critique Trump. He doesn’t want the Laura Ingraham MAGA treatment.
Saying stupid things is something classy people try to do in private, not right out there in public. Not Good Old Claire, she just puts it put out there on the television! Irish Poem time!
Claire De Loon???
An Irish Poem by Squeeky Fromm
There once was a woman named Claire –
And clearly, she wasn’t “all there!”
She foamed and she spewed,
She said things quite crude,
And she did it all while Live, On Air!
So what? Saying stupid things is still protected speech. Turley is whining about a choice that is well within her right to exercise. Just as you are. You say very stupid things too and I don’t see Turley chastising you. Weird isnt’ it?
“Saying stupid things is still protected speech. “
True. That is why you remain free.
We are all free S. Meyer. Aren’t you?
No, George, you are not free. You are trapped by stupidity
“Saying stupid things is still protected speech.”
Isn’t that on your family crest?
It turns out there is one place left to go after jumping the shark: jumping the dolphin, and the Elon-hating Dems have now done it.
https://babylonbee.com/news/democrats-begin-spray-painting-swastikas-on-dolphins
TALLAHASSEE, FL — After a pod of dolphins arrived to greet the returning NASA astronauts brought home by SpaceX, outraged Democrats began protesting the dolphins’ actions by spray-painting swastikas on them and setting them afire.
Democratic leaders and their voting base, infuriated by the aggressive act of the dolphins inquisitively swimming around the capsule after it splashed down off Florida’s coast, vowed to make sure they were all identified for that they are — Nazis.
“We now know where these extremist MAGA dolphins’ loyalty lies,” said Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer. “This disgusting grandstanding with Donald Trump must be stopped. These astronauts have been safe and well cared for in space since last summer. There was no need to recklessly bring them home to see their families. And to top it off, they were greeted by dolphins who have clearly aligned themselves with Trump and his ‘MAGA’ voters. We thought dolphins were our friends. We do so no longer, and advise true Americans to show their protest accordingly.”
Witnesses along the Florida coast reported seeing a dolphin that had been set on fire leaping above the surface of the water with a swastika and the words “DIE NAZI” freshly painted on its side. “I’m no marine biologist, but I don’t think they normally have those markings,” said one witness. “There was a group of protesters wandering around earlier asking where the ‘fascist dolphins’ are. I guess they found them.” At publishing time, congressional Democrats revealed that they had uncovered shocking video footage of MAGA hat-wearing dolphins being present at the U.S. Capitol on January 6.
Turley– “MSNBC analyst and former Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill has long been criticized for unhinged rhetoric.”
True. But you made me wonder why so many Democrats sound unhinged these days. It seems the entire party has gone bonkers.
I remember when there were people like Senator Moynihan in the party. Smart men. Now they would have to be Independents or Republicans.
I think that both Whoopi and Claire need a lesson on the difference between transitive and intransitive verbs.
I was born and raised in Missouri. My profound apologies for Claire McCaskill. She was Missouri’s most regrettable mistake.
Don’t worry Walter, Minnesota and New York still have your State beat by a mile! AOC, Tim Walz and Ilhan Omar…
Do better in the future if you’re able!
OT: It isn’t only Democrats who are conducting “the resistance”. As the following account shows, there is no lack of “resistors” who are nominally GOP members, including two Republican US Senators who support, and no doubt greatly benefit from, on a personal level, the persistent, unabated power of the Deep State.
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Pentagon reportedly considers NATO leadership exit, GOP Armed Services Committee chairs revolt
https://justthenews.com/government/congress/pentagon-reportedly-considers-nato-leadership-exit-gop-armed-services-committee
Mississippi Sen. Roger Wicker and Alabama Rep. Mike Rogers released a joint statement 24 hours to the minute after the NBC News report on one of the Pentagon plans “under consideration,” to give up the role of NATO’s Supreme Allied Commander Europe. The two defense officials told NBC News that could involve consolidating five of the military’s 11 combatant commands. “U.S. combatant commands are the tip of the American warfighting spear,” the chairs said. “Therefore, we are very concerned about reports that claim DoD is considering unilateral changes on major strategic issues, including significant reductions to U.S. forces stationed abroad, absent coordination with the White House and Congress.”
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First, the implication that the Pentagon might be planning such a move without Trump’s prior knowledge is beyond ludicrous. Second, the Constitution confers upon Congress the power to declare war, and the methods and mechanisms to fund the military, nothing more. The Senate also has advise and consent power over treaties. There is no grant of power to Congress over, or compulsion on the Executive to seek Congressional advice about, the tactical or strategic deployment of the military. Those authorities are the sole province of the Commander in Chief, the President of the United States. Trump should, in no uncertain terms, tell Wicker and Rogers to go fly a kite.
If this were true and someone wanted to “Putin” a plane loaded with terrorist the plane would have blown up. You recall how many unexplained aircraft blew up carrying Putin’s “friends” previously?
JT states “He tends more toward nerve agents”
That’s what Glorious Supreme Dear Divine Leader Kim Jong Un aka rocket man
used. VX nerve agent was used to assassinate his brother Kim Jong Nam.
In addition to nerve agents, Putler likes to disappear people by having them fall out of windows.
That’s happened quite a bit
Are you claiming that Russian Federation Special Operations Forces has a Department of Defenestration?
Since losing her senate seat in the last election (to Josh Hawley) McCaskill is struggling to figure out what to do with her spare time.
for lack of productive options, good to see she can be a commentator on CNN and MSNBC… whoopee.
If you came to this country illegally you should NEVER have “a pathway to citizenship.”
You should be thoroughly photographed, fingerprinted, footprinted, dental x-rayed, DNA sampled, retina scanned, iris scanned, and deported. Reentry by such a catalogged person should be a capital crime.
If you think we need a healthy, young population for this country then stop stealing public money by the trainload and create policy that encouraged dtrong and stable families.
Damned communists can’t figure out that the problem is themselves.
100000^10000 %
The problem is requiring that every single person who has come here illegally be expelled first before we can even think about reforming or fixing the immigration system is pretty stupid. It’s going to be so expensive and umpractical that even if it were to even remotely possible it would harm the economy much more than you realize.
The easiest and most cost effective solution is to create a pathway to citizenship. Specifically to those who have already been here for decades and have already established successful businesses, contributed to the taxbase, and Social Security, Medicare, Madicaid. Property Taxes and even employing others. Legalizing them would keep our economy growing and adding more taxpayers to a system that needs more taxpayers.
The majority of illegal immigrants don’t come here for the welfare benefits. They come here to work and be a part of the economy. They are not “stealing” anything. There are no “limited resources” that they are taking from everyone else.
If we are to compete with China or other countries we absolutely need immigrants. We don’t have enough people to fill all the jobs we need to effectively compete. We have very low unemployment and still need workers and immigrants can easily fill that gap. By reforming immigration and making legal immigration easier and more rational like legal temporary work permits or seasonal ones we reduce the incentive to come here illegally and help our economy and businesses meet their needs. It makes more sense than waiting years and more debt expending resources to boot out every single illegal immigrant. It’s not cost effective. Reagan realized this when he pushed for immigration amnesty. Remember that?
The Immigration control and Reform act of 1986. The only flaw in it was that it punished employers for hiring illegals. Blunting it’s effectiveness. If that was not on the act it would have been much more successful.
This means it CAN be done.
Here’s serious question. Why hasn’t Trump closed the border? Where is the urgency? Is he building the wall again? I makes no sense to deport and not close the border.
It’s pure George BullSchiff to claim we need “immigration reform” – a claim made by one of our more infamous commies here that has been defending his Democrats refusing to enforce existing immigration laws: followed by the same Democrats then claiming the results of NOT enforcing those laws show that “immigration reform” is required.
The problem is requiring that every single person who has come here illegally be expelled first before we can even think about reforming or fixing the immigration system is pretty stupid.
President Eisenhower did successfully deport pretty much all the Illegal Aliens in America at the time, and not even the Democrats claimed doing that was stupid. Nor did they send out lying propagandists to moan that “Immigration reform” was needed.
The majority of illegal immigrants don’t come here for the welfare benefits. They come here to work and be a part of the economy.
That’s one of the more common and pathetic Democrat lies – at least 37% of Illegal Aliens are illegally collecting benefits and entitlements. Not to mention the ongoing crime wave they engage in every day while applying for jobs, being paid under the table, not filing tax returns, etc.
Curious George, The Marxist Democrat Monkey, wants another one of those Ted Kennedy style “immigration reforms” that flooded America with unqualified, government dependent Central Americans that soon after allowed them to flip previously conservative states like California.
Republicans were all for immigraton reform during Biden’s term. That is until Trump torpedoed the legisation because it would have undermined his border and immigration narrative.
It’s obvious existing immigration laws are in need of reform. That’s why Trump is whining and trying to bypass immigration laws when he can and why judges are blocking illegal attempts to bypass due process.
“That’s one of the more common and pathetic Democrat lies – at least 37% of Illegal Aliens are illegally collecting benefits and entitlements.”
Got any evidence of for that claim?
Illegal immigrants do have children who are U.S. citizens and are entitled to benefits and other government services.
“ President Eisenhower did successfully deport pretty much all the Illegal Aliens in America at the time, and not even the Democrats claimed doing that was stupid.“
Oh, you mean “Operation Wetback”? It wasn’t as succeful as you think. The government claimed 1.3 million illegal immigrants were deported the figure included immigrants that went back and got caught again. The real number was closer to just shy of 300,000.
The reason why there were so many immigrants at the time is because they were ther legally as part of the Bracero program. It allowed immigrants from Mexico to come here and work due to a worker shortage from the war. But unscrupulous businessmen exploited them by not paying them and having them deported once they finished the work. Ironically we did have a temporary work program that legally allowed Mexican immigrants to work here in the 1940’s. It was successful until the 50’s when Mexico needed workers and Eisenhower needed to get rid of them.
Now we need workers and we don’t have enough. The easiest and most cost-effective way to deal with the current immigration issue is to fix asylum laws and make it easier and legal for immigrants to work here and end up with citizenship much sooner. Waiting decades to become a citizen is too long.
Reagan did this in a way when he offered amnesty to millions. What he should have done as well is reform the immigration system. Something we still need to do.