After speaking at the National Press Club, I will be testifying today before the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the Senate Committee on the Judiciary on free speech and censorship. My testimony is below.
The hearing, titled “The Censorship Industrial Complex” will be held in Room 226 of the Dirksen Senate Office Building at 2 p.m.
We now know a great deal about the censorship system developed under the Biden Administration in coordination with academic and corporate units. Indeed, the release of new information since January has proven a windfall for those of us who have been seeking greater transparency for years. There is still much to be done. It is essential for Congress to complete this work and allow for total transparency on the past funding and coordination by the government.
The past efforts to block investigations and withhold information on the censorship system have failed. However, the motivation is telling. While publicly declaring the need to combat misinformation, disinformation, and malinformation, the Biden Administration and its allies in the censorship system struggled to withhold information on their actual targets or actions. The reason again is obvious. The public understands the threat to free speech and strongly supports an investigation into the FBI’s role in censoring social media.
Almost 250 years ago, Tom Paine famously wrote that “These are the times that try men’s souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.” That was the first line of a work published by Thomas Paine in the Pennsylvania Journal on December 19, 1776, a work which would become known as “The American Crisis.”
We are living through a new crisis in the fight for free speech. The anti-free speech movement that has swept over Europe has now reached our shores. The United States remains a final line of defense for free speech, a nation founded on free speech as our indispensable right as a free people. This is a crisis of faith as the “summer soldier and sunshine patriot” finds every excuse for remaining silent as others are censored or canceled for their views. Congress must step forward to demand both greater transparency and protection for free speech. This new “American crisis” can be our greatest American moment in speaking in one voice – Democrats, Republicans, and Independents – in support of the right that defines us as a people.
Here is the testimony: Turley.Senate Testimony.Censorship.Final
Key Nodes of Federal Government Censorship
liber-net.org combats this new authoritarianism in order to reestablish free speech and civil liberties as the default standard for our networked age. Through journalism, research, media-making, events and network building, liber-net provides a platform to create alliances and change the conversation.
By: liber-net founder Andrew Lowenthal ~ March 20, 2025
https://networkaffects.substack.com/p/federal-government-censorship-key
See: https://liber-net.org/states/
Refs:
Report on the Censorship-Industrial Complex: The Top 50 Organizations to Know
The citizen’s starter kit to understanding the new global information cartel
By: Susan Schmidt, Andrew Lowenthal, Tom Wyatt, and 5 others ~ May 10, 2023
[Link] racket.news/p/report-on-the-censorship-industrial-74b
Nonstop Leftist handwringing over private messages inadvertently sent to a bottom-feeder “journalist.”
Meanwhile, Tesla properties and drivers are terrorized all over the country. Yet not a peep from the Left.
Those two events and reactions capture perfectly the modern Left: Morph a flicker into a conflagration. Because doing so satisfies a desire: To destroy Trump.
Ignore an actual conflagration. Because doing so satisfies a desire: To destroy Musk.
The Left has gone full nihilism.
#9. Yeah, it’s spring time, the weeds are popping up and so are the Bolsheviks.
Thanks Jonathan, They got the message.
PBS and NPR have ‘outgrown’ their ‘usefulness,’ says Rep. Pat Fallon
Rep. Pat Fallon, R-Texas, discusses the Trump administration’s response to a leaked Signal group chat and calls to defund NPR and PBS on ‘The Bottom Line.’
https://www.foxbusiness.com/video/6370556234112
Good, the US govenrment should not attempt to censor speech, and it should not subsidize speech.
I admire the defense of free speech. Except when it goes against the Israeli government. The Trump administration is cutting off all Federal aid to Columbia unless they agree to destroy free speech on campus. Shame on your silence Jonathan. You expose your bias. Free speech unless saying so will cost you anything.
Columbia U. was a riot intended to harm Jewish students.. So attacking people for their religion is okay?
To rectify the situation the government used it entitled powers to fix the situation.
I guess all forms of hate is free speech in your mind.
Jonathan: What is it with your fetish with “free speech” and censorship? For four years you complained about the Biden administration’s engaging in an an alleged vast “censorship system” to take away the free speech rights of conservatives using the FBI. But now that Joe Biden is out of power you still seem to want to blame him. Bizarre!
The Q is what conservative was actually censored? Was it MTG, Matt Gaetz, Steve Bannon or DJT? Nope. They all spent four years engaging in a misinformation and disinformation campaign against Biden. Nobody censored them. During the same period new right-wing media sprang up like mushrooms. None of those were shut down by the Biden administration.
Fox News hosts endlessly complain that we are about to enter George Orwell’s nightmare that the “thought police” will arrest anyone for their thoughts. Talk about hyperbole! But you know your job at Fox. It’s to provide an echo chamber for the views of Fox hosts.
What is the reality? It is actually the DJT regime that is trying to take away free speech and is trying to censor anyone who might protest. Here are just a few examples of what DJT is up to:
–DJT is railing against judges whose opinions he doesn’t like. He calls Chief Judge in DC Boasberg a “radical left lunatic of a judge, a troublemaker and agitator…” He wants any judge that rules against him to be impeached. Isn’t that an attempt at censorship?
–DJT is trying to purge his regime of any “woke” initiatives. The heads of DJT’s agencies are flagging hundreds of words that now are verboten on agency websites. Isn’t that censorship?
–Even in petty matters DJT is engaged in censorship. He has demanded his portrait that hangs in the Colorado State Capitol be removed because it “purposefully distorted to a level that even I, perhaps, have never seen before”. DJT didn’t like the portrait because it showed him with a fatter face. The portrait was actually commissioned by Colorado Republicans in 2018 and put up in 2019. When DJT’s portrait was unveiled CO Republican Kevin Grantham said this: “In 2019, there are still nations across the globe that are led by those who rule simply by the force and fear they command. Leaders that do not allow dissent and do not allow critique. Whether this portrait brings a smile or a scowl to your face, remember that you have the right to do so because this is the United States of America”.
In a bit of irony Grantham’s statement is coming back to haunt him. The CO Republicans just took down DJT’s portrait because it didn’t please him. That’s what leaders who rule by “force and fear” do. I seem to remember that in Nazi Germany Hitler didn’t select every artist to do his portraits. But Hitler did play a significant role in shaping Nazi art that was acceptable that emphasized “classical” themes. Hitler didn’t like the “degenerate” art of the 1920s. DJT also likes “classical” themes in art. That’s why he got his way and his portrait removed from the CO State Capitol. It’s the kind of censorship writ large by the DJT regime!
Free speech is not a fetish.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
https://content.heterodoxacademy.org/uploads/1-Tools-Resources/All-Minus-One-2nd-Edition-PDF-1.pdf
“The Q is what conservative was actually censored?”
Prolife protestors who were swatted, prosecuted multiple times and ultimately prevailed in court – becausespeech is not a crime.
Parents of HS students who were raped in school, who tried to ask questions in public school borad meetings were ordered hauled off by police by left wing nut school boards.
Catholic churchs that were spied on by the FBI – something prohibited by federal laws dating back to the Church Commission.
CIA, DHS, FBI who were directing social media companies which posts to take down and which users to ban for their speech.
Federal funds going to NGOs for the purpose of scouring the internet forposts by people with political views they did not like and directing SM companies to take them down.
Dennis – do you live in the real world ?
This did not mostly happen in secret.
Regardless, why are you opposed to thr Trump administration banning government spending and conduct that violates the first amendment – if such conduct never happened ?
Why are you opposed to the DOJ and FBI finding and firing those who engaged in conduct that violated the first amendment – if that conduct never happened ?
Why are you opposed to the Trump administration cutting funding to private actors who engage in political censorship – it that never happened ?
“During the same period new right-wing media sprang up like mushrooms.”
False – right wing media outlets have been pretty stable. Pretty much every significant right wing media outlet in the US predates Trump
Many were openly hostile to Trump for years.
There has been a massive rise in indepedent journalism – MOST though not all of these are people who left the LEFT.
The Barri Weis’s, the Matt Taibbi’s the Micheal Schellenbergers, the Alan Derschowitz’s the Dave Rubin’s the Joe Rogans
and on and on – these ALL Came from the LEFT. Rogan was a sanders supporter. Rubin is a former Young Turk, Barri Weis an editor of the NYT op Ed page, Alan Derschowitz is one of the most preeminent constitutional and free speech lawyers in the country.
You rant and rant about Turley – but Turley is a democrat, He has always been a liberal. He appeared on CNN and MSNBC and other left wing outlets until thy banned him.
“None of those were shut down by the Biden administration.”
Correct – the Biden administration directed the censorship of the speech of ordinary Americans.
“Fox News hosts endlessly complain that we are about to enter George Orwell’s nightmare that the “thought police” will arrest anyone for their thoughts.”
Because they take those of you on the left at your word when you say you are going to punish people for their thoughts or when you cheer places like the UK that litterally punish people for their thoughts.
Are you saying that the left is lying when they claim that what THEY deem to be hate speech, misinformation, and disinformation is not protected speech ?
No one is accusing you of thing that you are not either already doing or openly admitting that you intend to do.
“–DJT is railing against judges whose opinions he doesn’t like. He calls Chief Judge in DC Boasberg a “radical left lunatic of a judge, a troublemaker and agitator…” He wants any judge that rules against him to be impeached. Isn’t that an attempt at censorship?”
Nope. Judges are part of the government, there actions in court are not protected by the first amendment, their words in court are not the words of individuals they are the words of govenrment. A court order is litterally and ORDER – it is the direction to use FORCE against those who disobey.
Judges execerise FORCE and they are NOT free to do so willy nilly as they please. They are obligated to follow the law and constitution and if they fail to do so their actions are NOT free speech – they are LAWLESS.
An MSNBC host can say the same things as a federal judge – the speech of the NBC host is protected free speech. The Speech of the Judge is a government act of FORCE and must be constitutional and lawful.
Presidents and anyone else can Rail against courts, but they may not unlawfully use force against the courts. Trump and many others have called on congress to impeach federal judges – the only difference between than and democrats seeking to impeach Trump or call for the use of lawfare against republicans or ordinary citizens is that Democrats did not have the support of the people when they did so. Trump does.
House republicans are NOT likely to impeach any federal judges right now. But the distance from the moment to impeachment for political lawfare is shorter than it has been. The calls for impeachment are putting the courts on notice that they are undermining their own legitimacy.
“DJT is trying to purge his regime of any “woke” initiatives. The heads of DJT’s agencies are flagging hundreds of words that now are verboten on agency websites. Isn’t that censorship?”
No that is NOT censorship – There is no government right to free speech. Further Compelled speech violates the first amendment – the elimination of govenrment programs compelling speech is REQUIRED by the first amendment, it is not censorship.
There is no direction to any govenrment employee restricting their expression of ideas like DEI outside of their work in government.
It is only the speech of government that is being restricted, and government has no right to free speech.
“–Even in petty matters DJT is engaged in censorship. He has demanded his portrait that hangs in the Colorado State Capitol be removed ”
He can “rail” all he wants. He does not have power over the Colorado state government. The speech of presidents that does not have FORCE behind it is not censorship.
In Nazi Germany Hitler’s oppinons on Art were imposed by FORCE.
If Hitler did not like your art you could even end up in a concentration camp.
If you are going to make Nazi references – atleast get them correct – it is Nazi’s who used the FORCE of govenrment against people who the wrong pictures, the wrong words, the wrong thoughts.
Power that those of you on the left OPENLY Yearn for.
DJT can choose the art in the whitehouse. He has some voice in the Art in the executive branch, he has no control of that in the judiciary or legislature. He has no ability beyond persuasion to control art in state government or peoples homes.
Hitler controlled art EVERYWHERE and being at odds with him could result in starvation and death.
The left wing nuts in the US are envious ofthe power to punish people for the art and posters and books in their bedrooms that those in the EU have. They openly seek the power to punish wrong think. And they have used the power of government to silence the speech of ordinary americans on social media.
The first amendment is violated when you try to limit speech based on content – censorship does NOT require that you successfully eliminate it everywhere.
In 2021 10% of Biden voters said they would have voted differently had they known that the Hinter Biden laptop was not Russian disinformation.
Without a doubt that was covered by Fox and what you call right wing media outlets. But 10’s of millions of democrats were prevented from hearing what ultimately proved to be the truth – that the Hunter Biden Laptop was real.
The first require all media to repeat all oppinions. It does not preclude Fox from saying the Latop was real any more than it precludes MSNBC from repeating the lie that it was russian disinformation. The First amendment does not prevent Sopcial Media companies from censoring the posts of people who say the hunter biden taptop is real or those who say the reverse.
But the First amendment absolutely prevents Government from seeking to censor – even through third parties such speech – whether true or not.
You do not understand the first amendment at all.
Professor could you please address the case of Mahmoud Khalil?
Hey Everyone:
For all the fear-mongering and stoking from the media lately, here’s a heartwarming short video clip of some REAL well-deserving fear, with happy results! Go to bed with this good scene on your mind,
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/animals/close-call-caught-on-doorbell-camera-as-family-saves-their-dog-moments-before-disaster/vi-AA1BE3le?ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover&cvid=e17a5bef45c147d5970475623b321b30&ei=8
Congrats for bringing Thomas Paine into the conversation on free speech and constitutional rights. Good for you!
Judah Freed
author, Making Global Sense:
Grounded hope for democracy and the earth
(inspired by Thomas Paine’s Common Sense )
GlobalSense.com
editor, The Beacon
Thomas Paine Historical Association
ThomasPaine.org
Something to think about. A number of foreign-born judges in DC, a third of all judges.
https://thefederalist.com/2025/03/25/a-third-of-all-dc-district-judges-were-not-born-in-united-states/
“Out of all the judges in the nation, all five foreign-born judges of the D.C. District court managed to get their fingerprints on a controversial Trump case. ”
The Speaker’s thought that Congress should consider abolishing some district courts is looking more attractive every day.
Great idea!
3106. Unlawful removal, destruction of records
(a) Federal Agency Notification.—The head of each Federal agency shall notify the Archivist of any actual, impending, or threatened unlawful removal, defacing, alteration, corruption, deletion, erasure, or other destruction of records in the custody of the agency, and with the assistance of the Archivist shall initiate action through the Attorney General for the recovery of records the head of the Federal agency knows or has reason to believe have been unlawfully removed from that agency, or from another Federal agency whose records have been transferred to the legal custody of that Federal agency.
Waltz already set his texts to delete after four days.
The Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978, 44 U.S.C. ß2201-2209, governs the official records of Presidents and Vice Presidents that were created or received after January 20, 1981 (i.e., beginning with the Reagan Administration). The PRA changed the legal ownership of the official records of the President from private to public, and established a new statutory structure under which Presidents, and subsequently NARA, must manage the records of their Administrations. The PRA was amended in 2014, which established several new provisions.
https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html
I’m sure you can figure out the rest.
The PRA does not and can not change the legal ownership of WH docs – if it did the law would be unconstitutional.
The PRA specifies that the PRESIDENT gets to choose whether he keeps the custody of his WH doc or if he allows NARA to take custody.
The PRA never refers to ownership only CUSTODY – Custody is the term for possession when you do not clearly OWN something.
Further there are numerous DC court decision reiterating that the WH docs of a former president are his property.
At what point do you left wing nuts CEASE making stupid legal arguments that the courts tossed decades ago ?
“The PRA does not and can not change the legal ownership of WH docs – if it did the law would be unconstitutional.”
It’s not. The law has not been reviewed by SCOTUS. Until it rules otherwise it is deemed correct.
“The PRA changed the legal ownership of the official records of the President from private to public, and established a new statutory structure under which Presidents, and subsequently NARA, must manage the records of their Administrations.”
“The PRA specifies that the PRESIDENT gets to choose whether he keeps the custody of his WH doc or if he allows NARA to take custody.”
No, that’s not what it says.
“The PRA distinguishes between a President’s personal records and presidential records. Personal records of a purely private or nonpublic character include such things as diaries or journals but also include (1) materials relating exclusively to the President’s own election and to the election of a particular individual or individuals to federal, state, or local office that “have no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President;” and (2) materials relating to private political associations.16 Because personal records are not presidential records, they are not subject to the same materials retention or access requirements.17”
There are very specific definitions if what is considered personal and presidential record. The president doesn’t get to choose whatever he wants as personal.
“The PRA specifies that the PRESIDENT gets to choose whether he keeps the custody of his WH doc or if he allows NARA to take custody.”
No, the president gets to RESTRICT what NARA can allow the public to view. NARA retains custody of all presidential records. The president only gets custody of records to put in his library after a period of time.
“Further there are numerous DC court decision reiterating that the WH docs of a former president are his property.”
No, that’s not what they said. You’re referring to the Clinton tapes. They were part of a personal project. Not an official white house function. The court ruled because some documents were white house documents but used strictly for a biography project they were not subject to the PRA. By definition they were personal records. That was not saying anything the president designates as personal is personal. There are still criteria that must be met.
“At what point do you left wing nuts CEASE making stupid legal arguments that the courts tossed decades ago ?”
Your arguments are seriously flawed. You don’t understand what the rulings said and what the PRA says. That’s why you’re so confused about the stubbornness of the left. Because its you who is wrong.
“The law has not been reviewed by SCOTUS. Until it rules otherwise it is deemed correct.”
False – it has been reviewed repeatedly by lower courts, always to the same conclusion.
BTW No law is presumed to be correct when faced with a constitutional challenge it is ALWAYS presumed to be INCORRECT.
Depending on the specific rights being infringed the burden of proof that the governmetn faces is higher or lower.
With laws infringing on the first amendment facing the highest burden.
You are correct that the numerous DC court rulings do not REQUIRE every other court to reach the same conclusion. POnly a SCOTUS decision can do that. But they are suggestive and they do raise and already high burden higher.
However the AEA has been found constitutional by SCOTUS and the presidents powerunder the AEA unreviewable Except by Habeus Corpous. Judge Boasberg is way out on a limb he is sawing off behind him.
““The PRA specifies that the PRESIDENT gets to choose whether he keeps the custody of his WH doc or if he allows NARA to take custody.”
No, that’s not what it says.”
Yes that is what it says, that also is what the courts have said it says, and that is what every president in US history has done.
Please read the PRA – nowhere int eh PRA is the ownership of WH documents discussed.
The reason it is not discussed is because the law would be facially unconstitutional if it attempted to change ownership
I would note that President Obama has a contract with NARA and GSA regarding his presidential papers.
If the Govenrment owns those papers – there is no reason or need for a Contract.
Presidential libraries are universally PRIVATE. The govenment provided NARA with the authority and funding to take custordy of WH documents – at the direction of the president, fromt he time he leaves office through to the establishment of his library.
And further funding for the Care of those documents inside the presidents library.
But the ownership remains wwith the president.
Further, this has gone to SCOTUS as a side issue on cases in the 80’s about Current govenrment ACCESS to former presidents documents in Custody of NARA.
DJT can not go to NARA and demand copies of Jo Biden’s presidential documents. NARA will refuse to comply – by law they have CUSTOY not OWNERSHIP. For DJT to access Biden’s presidential records he must either get Biden’s permission, or he must get a court order.
He must do so because the Govenrment does not OWN the documents of former presidents.
There are atleast a dozen prior cases some of which went to SCOTUS.
This is a settled issue. The JW vs NARA and Crew vs. Chenney decisions derive directly from the prior decisons that hinged on who owns the documents.
While SCOTUS has ruled that the govenrment can get ACCESS to former presidents documents easily, That the standards forr a court order are very low. Even access requires a court order or permiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiission.
this is decided law.
Nor did these decisions come out of nowhere.
It was not by accident thatt the presidential papers of past presidents are their property. It is because of the unique position of the ppresident (and to a lessor extent vice president) in the US govenrment. The president and VP are the only people in govenrment that live in homes provided by the government. They are the only people who have absolutely no distinction between their private life and time and their public life and time. The president does not own their own time. He can be woken in the middle of the night drug half way accross the world over his own objections forced to make decisions.
The WH is either fully or partially not subject to many of the laws that government the rest of the federal governmetn.
You cited the Federal records act. That does not apply to the WH.
Some people in the WH are subject to the Hatch act – others are not. Inside the WH the president has political advisors that do not have to comply with myriads of federal laws. and other staff that does.
Much of his is the result of 250 years of constitutional decisions regarding the power and role of the president.
In addition to those differences – the president and VP are elected – just like members of congress.
Biden’s senate papers are his own and he has given them to Udel. Senators are elected – and the entire work produc of their offices is the property of the Senator – or representative.
Many of these decisions are ancient and they can not be changed by law. Some flow from the presidents exclusively executive powers.
Some flow from the unique nature of the US presidency.
Some flow from the fact that presidents are elected – like congressmen.
I know those of you on the left think that you can make whatever law you want.
But you can’t. The constitution limits you.
But even the constitution itself is not arbitrary.
Whiel we are free to change it. The fact still is that we can not change it however we wish.
Why ? – because it will not work.
Government is not some arbitrary thing that we can construct however we wish,
I repeatedly state that the lawf t can have things as they wish by changing the constitution.
But even that is not true.
The USSR had a constituion – it failed. You can not structure governemtn anyway you please and expect that it will work.
You can get SOME things wrong – there is some failure that can be tolerated – even if it still messes things up.
But too much failure and govenrment itself fails.
You are just not free to do as you please.
The rules of logic and human behavior are immutable. You can not change them.
“There are very specific definitions if what is considered personal and presidential record.”
There are – and they are irrelevant.
“The president doesn’t get to choose whatever he wants as personal.”
And yet he can do exactly that – the courts have rejected any claim to the countrary since the PRA was passed.
I would further note that the designation of a record as personal is irrlevant – it is owned by the president regardless.
If it was not – then not only would the PRA be unconstitutional, but numerous other laws would be in conflict with the PRA and the PRA would be internally inconsistant with itself.
No court has EVER ruled that a president could not take posession of whatever WH documents he wished.
“No, the president gets to RESTRICT what NARA can allow the public to view. NARA retains custody of all presidential records. The president only gets custody of records to put in his library after a period of time.”
You keep repeating the word custody – that is the word used in the PRA – Custody has meaning – Custody is not ownership.
The PRA did not give ownership to NARA or the federal govenrment – it could not do so without violating the constitution.
Custody is not ownership.
One of the problems with your text saying the president can chose with limitations – is that the OWNER can always choose WITHOUT limitations – and that is what the courts have repeatedly decided – includion SCOTUS
SCOTUS has ruled that control of access to presidential documents belongs to the former president.
Why – because he OWNS those documents – even when they are in NARA’s custordy.
I have noted that all elected officials own the product of their offices,
Why can’t the law change that ? Because it would violate the 5th amendment takings clause.
If the PRA gace ownership of presidential papers to the govenrment, it would have to do so thought a takings procedint and then it would have to compensate the former president for those documents.
Left wing nuts like you do not seem to grasp – you can not just make this stuff up as you please.
“You’re referring to the Clinton tapes. They were part of a personal project. ”
Nope, they were produced by a journalist hired as a WH historian and they were a record of the activities of the president – and they included classified information. They were very little different from the signal messages that we are addressing right now.
JW vs. NARA Holding
“The Court will grant the motion to dismiss pursuant to Rule 12(b)(1) because plaintiff’s claim is not redressable. NARA does not have the authority to designate materials as “Presidential records,” NARA does not have the tapes in question, and NARA lacks any right, duty, or means to seize control of them. In other words, there has been no showing that a remedy would be available to redress plaintiff’s alleged injury even if the Court agreed with plaintiff’s characterization of the materials. Since plaintiff is completely unable to identify anything the Court could order the agency to do that the agency has any power, much less, a mandatory duty, to do, the case must be dismissed.”
The power to determine what is a presidential rocrd rests ONLY with the president – while the PRA provided criteria, it did NOT (and could not) provide anyone with the power to overrule the president in the application of that criteria.
You do not understand how the presidency works – but atleast in this instance – based on lots of precident Judge ABJ did.
“Not an official white house function.”
Not relevant and further it is not an official document because the president decided it was not.
” The court ruled because … ”
The court said wht they ruled and why – you are just making things up – read the opinion.
Outside the holding the court addressed your claim – it did NOT decide this was a personal record.
It decided that neither NARA nor the court had the authority to decide that.
Only the president does.
That is the decision.
“That was not saying anything the president designates as personal is personal. ”
That is exactly what they said when they said NARA has no authoruty to decide, and the courts have no authority to decide.
“Your arguments are seriously flawed.”
Nope
“You don’t understand what the rulings said and what the PRA says.”
I cited the ruling – you made something up that is not present in this ruling.
I would further ntoe – Judge Jackson did not just blow this decision out her ass – as I have said before – she relied on more than a dozen related decisions over the prior 30 years
No court including SCOTUS has EVER accepted a claim that the PRA changes the ownership of WH records.
” That’s why you’re so confused about the stubbornness of the left. Because its you who is wrong.”
I am not the one trying to read into the constitution, and the cdecisions of the courts things that are not there.
I am not the one trying to pretend that JW vs. NARA is an anaomally that hinged on something the court refused to address and explicity asserted that no one but the president can decide.
The law you cite is not a criminal statute and is specific to official government records. It does not apply to the text messages of FBI agents or National Security advisors. You seem to forget that the contents of the phones of the Crossfire Huricane team were wiped by SC Mueller despite the fact he had received notice to preserve records by IG Horowitz. SC Mueller’s deletion of records was actually a federal crime – Waltz’s deletions of signal messages not subject to subpeoina or record preservation request at the time was not.
I would note that YOU claim these messages were classified. Then there automatic destruction is a GOOD rather than bad thing.
The deletion of classified information whose value is time sensitive is served by deleting them after that time has expired.
Regardless, you continue to make broad claims – without actually establishing them. Amd you are constantly on the wrong side of law that the LEFT established.
Your misrepresentation of the PRA conflicts with the decisions of multiple left leaning judges who were acting to protect former President Clinton.
You do not get to make up the law as you wish it to be.
Waltz made a simple mistake – he included a journo in a chat that might have included classified comments.
He has taken responsibility. It is possible that he will be fired – if that is the case I suspect that will be more because he had a Journo as a contact in an encrypted communications app. That Screams LEAKER and that will piss any president off.
Biden and Clinton deliberately removed classified information – often sneaking it out of classified environs.
Then they shared it with people the NEW were not cleared.
Judges on the left asserted that Pres. Clinton under the PRA could take whatever he wanted – including classified information and neither NARA nor the courts could do anything about it.
But the moment the name changes from Clinton to Trump – you and in some cases the very same judges that ruled for Clinton flip – and magicaly Trump is guilty but Clinton innocent.
Have you no shame ?
“The law you cite is not a criminal statute and is specific to official government records. It does not apply to the text messages of FBI agents or National Security advisors.”
Didn’t say it was a criminal statute.
It certainly applies to text messages, especially when it’s official government communication.
“I would note that YOU claim these messages were classified. Then there automatic destruction is a GOOD rather than bad thing.”
No, by definition they ARE classified. ANY discussions if operational timelines, weapons, sequences, and targets are automatically classified information when its a military plan being executed. Those kinda of discussions are REQUIRED to be discussed only within a SCIF or unauthorized secure government communication device. The Sugnal app CANNOT be downloaded onto a secure government communication device. That allows them to keep records required by law. They were using their personal cell phones. Deleting the discussion is NOT a good thing. The only reason to delete is to avoid accountability if things go wrong or a crime was committed.
“The deletion of classified information whose value is time sensitive is served by deleting them after that time has expired.”
You have no idea what you are talking about. That’s not how things work in government. Deleting records ESPECIALLY when the VP is involved is illegal. The PRA specifically says that’s not allowed.
“Judges on the left asserted that Pres. Clinton under the PRA could take whatever he wanted – including classified information and neither NARA nor the courts could do anything about it.”
No, they didn’t say that at all. You cite the specific ruling saying that and we can debate if it is what you say it is.
You’re confusing a very narrow finding and conflating it into something they didn’t say. I’ve read that case and they absolutely don’t say what you think it says.
“But the moment the name changes from Clinton to Trump – you and in some cases the very same judges that ruled for Clinton flip – and magicaly Trump is guilty but Clinton innocent.
Have you no shame ?”
Nothing changed. The problem is you’re misreading what the judge said. You’re focusing on only cherry-picked phrases instead of the entire context of the case. Its obvious that you’re ignoring critical parts of the ruling because it does not fit your preferred narrative.
“Didn’t say it was a criminal statute.”
Getting somewhere.
“It certainly applies to text messages, especially when it’s official government communication.”
It did not apply to the Text messages of FBI agents in the Crossfire Huricane investigation.
“No, by definition they ARE classified. ANY discussions if operational timelines, weapons, sequences, and targets are automatically classified information when its a military plan being executed. ”
Do you understand how absurd that claim is ?
Is absolutely every communication in a military conflict classified ?
Do you think that the Airforce maintance puke who loads a bomb onto an F35 has to have a TS/SCI ?
Your manufacturing a standard that does not exist and is not possible to make work.
Miltiary communications of information are mostly secure, they are increasingly encrypted, but they are mostly not classified.
They are usually destroyed. Written Orders as an example are preserved,
verbal ones are not, but the work creating those orders is not preserve.
The work of an officers staff – including intelligence and operations personal, is often critical and must be handled securely, and you likely will be convicted of treason if you intentionally share it with an enemy and court martial if you do so accidentally.
But it is also all – except orders destroyed often once the orders are written.
You have no clue what an official govenrment record is.
“Those kinda of discussions are REQUIRED to be discussed only within a SCIF or unauthorized secure government communication device. ”
So the airman loading a bomb on an F35 must go into a SCIF to discus bomb loads ?
You are a moron.
“The Sugnal app CANNOT be downloaded onto a secure government communication device. ”
Incorrect – if you were paying attention to the testimony Biden’s CIA determined that Signal was suitable for secure governmetn communications.
The nonsens reqarding Signal is DOA.
“That allows them to keep records required by law. ”
Laws whose content you keep making up.
Nor are you smart enough to grasp that the made up applications of laws that you came up with would make it impossible to do anything.
Particularly to conduct a war. The mitliary woudl spend all their time preserving records and none of it fighting the enemy.
Are we suppsed to move an F35 into a SCIF because the Airman loading weapons has to run through a checklist while loading the weapons ?
“They were using their personal cell phones.”
I suspect so, but that has not been established.
The validity of using Signal has – by Biden’s CIA.
” Deleting the discussion is NOT a good thing.”
So you say.
“The only reason to delete is to avoid accountability if things go wrong or a crime was committed.”
Actual military orders must be documented – that is NOT just a classified information thing – that is because documented orders are the way the military works. One of the reasons that we KNOW that Trump ordered the NG to be at J6 is because wee have the rerod of that order proceding to sec. def, to assistant sec def to JCS and all the way down the chain – being changed from a broad presidential directive by the president to a detailed order to Gen. Walker specifying the units and weapons ….
The acutal order is ALWAYS presderved. the discussions and debate that lead to the at order are not.
There is no requirement of accountability for discussions that lead to orders, ONLY for the orders themselves.
If Waltz messaged – “we should consider nuking yemen” – but there was no order to do so, there is no crime and no accountability.
You are completely clueless about the real world.
You constantly make up rules that have little or nothing to do with the actual rules.
And then pretend that your scheme which you have not bothered to think about how it would work if that was actually how things worked would not fail horrible.
Those working on planning a military or other govenrment operation can have whatever discussions they want.
They can say what they wish. They can do so verbally, or via secure message.
Those discussions are NOT Govenrment records. The final decisions actuall made are. The orders issued are.
Even if this group of senior advisors reached a final decision on Signal, it would be the Order given By Hegsoth that would be the govenrment record. Not every single discussion that lead to it.
Johnson CHOSE to record his WH calls, Nixon CHOSE to record conversations in the WH.
No president since has done so. There is no requirement for those in government to “show their work”.
Only to dcoument decisions – which must be done OBVIOUSLY.
“You have no idea what you are talking about. That’s not how things work in government. Deleting records ESPECIALLY when the VP is involved is illegal. The PRA specifically says that’s not allowed.”
The PRA does not apply at all. You keep trying to pretend thes communications are official records. – they are not.
That claim is absurd.
It is self evident that YOU do not know what you are talking about.
““Judges on the left asserted that Pres. Clinton under the PRA could take whatever he wanted – including classified information and neither NARA nor the courts could do anything about it.”
No, they didn’t say that at all. You cite the specific ruling saying that and we can debate if it is what you say it is.”
I did.
“You’re confusing a very narrow finding and conflating it into something they didn’t say.”
The “narrow finding” is neitehr NARA nor the courts have authority over the decisions of presidents regarding records.
That is very nearly verbatum the ruling.
” I’ve read that case and they absolutely don’t say what you think it says.”
Clearly you have not
“The Court will grant the motion to dismiss pursuant to Rule 12(b)(1) because plaintiff’s claim is not redressable. NARA does not have the authority to designate materials as “Presidential records,” NARA does not have the tapes in question, and NARA lacks any right, duty, or means to seize control of them. In other words, there has been no showing that a remedy would be available to redress plaintiff’s alleged injury even if the Court agreed with plaintiff’s characterization of the materials. Since plaintiff is completely unable to identify anything the Court could order the agency to do that the agency has any power, much less, a mandatory duty, to do, the case must be dismissed.”
Do you understand what lack of power means? Do you undersand what lack of authority means ?
“The problem is you’re misreading what the judge said.”
What the Judge ORDERED is above.
NARA has not authority.
“You’re focusing on only cherry-picked phrases instead of the entire context of the case.”
The only “context” that is relevant is that in the ORDER. You are cherry picking things that are not even in the case and are not even dicta much less an order. or finding.
Paul A. Szypula 🇺🇸 on X:
“Speaker Johnson says that Congress can and will defund and shut down federal district courts that are obstructing President Trump. He says, “Stay tuned for that.”
https://x.com/Bubblebathgirl/status/1904622858644394438
“Ireland rejected Rosie O’Donnell’s permanent residence there & gave her 30 days to leave”
Sources close to the decision reveal that Rosie’s personality was a major factor. A confidential report leaked to the Irish Times states:
Her presence in local pubs caused a 67% increase in patrons leaving mid-drink.
After just three weeks, she had already been in public screaming matches with two cab drivers, a sheep farmer, and a group of children on a school trip.
An Irish talk show canceled her guest appearance after she turned a segment on traditional Celtic music into a 40-minute rant about Donald Trump.
O’Donnell has now been given 30 days to pack up and leave, though sources indicate she may be attempting to seek asylum in Scotland, claiming that “men in skirts are the only ones who have ever truly understood me.”
Meanwhile, Irish citizens have celebrated the decision, with one Dublin pub offering a “Rosie’s Gone” special—a free pint for every customer who can go 10 full minutes without yelling at a stranger.
As for the Irish government, officials maintain there are no hard feelings but urge any other Hollywood celebrities thinking of relocating to Ireland to “just visit first and see if we can actually tolerate you.”
https://dunning-kruger-times.com/ireland-rejected-rosie-odonnells-request-for-permanent-residency-and-gave-her-30-days-to-leave/
🤣
In just two months, nearly $3 trillion in pledged investments in American jobs. MAGA winning! And when MAGA wins, all of America wins.
https://x.com/RyanAFournier/status/1904187598614012148
Pledges don’t mean squat. I can pledge a trillion dollars and still claim it’s a win. Until those pledges become real cold hard cash they are still just lip service.
Trump could cure cancer and you’d say it “doesn’t mean squat.” Nobody is listening to your naysaying anymore. We all know it is TDS and you are mentally ill. Give it up.
Remember Trump’s FoxCon pledge? It flopped before any real investment materialized.
Had to look that one up from deep in the memory hole. Goes back to 2021 and 2022. Foxconn reduced its investment when “Joe Biden” came into office. A warning not to let that happen again. Still it resulted in 1,500 new American jobs, which is far better than 0, especially for the people who got them.
Lessons: (a) never let another Dem be president, and (b) TDS patients like yourself will never acknowledge anything good.
“ Foxconn reduced its investment when “Joe Biden” came into office. ”
Yeah, because Trump was no longer president and they didn’t have to make good on their pledge.
“ Still it resulted in 1,500 new American jobs, which is far better than 0, especially for the people who got them.”
That was just for the construction of the plant. They weren’t permanent jobs. They’re being subsidized by the town where it is. They had to put out a bond to keep them there. The amount they pledged never materialized.
yes after the new plants were built – they employed no one.
Are you really that stupid ?
While there are factors beyond Trump – TSMC despite HUGE problems building new FABS in the US is still comitted to doing so, and has been doing so through Trump 45 and Biden 46 – despite massive problems.
Tiawan. Japan, and SK want to move production to the US for demographic and security reasons.
Conversely US businesses with production in China have been slowly leaving for atleast a decade.
Tarrifs will accelerate that Chinas demographic problems will accelerate that even more.
I would note that Canada really needs to “get with the program”
Whether Canada formally becomes part of the US or not is a side issue.
Canada does not exist as an independent country anymore.
They are massively dependent on the US.
They can accept Trump’s offers – control their borders so that the US does NOT need to control its border with Canada,
Stop the drug and other issues – which are not nearly as bad with Canada as Mexico but WILL grow exponentially if the US successfully gets Mexico to deal with its Drug Cartels. Drug operations moving to Canada is trivial.
Then the next thing Canada must do is agree to REAL free trade – no trade barriers at all.
If Canada does these things – Manufacturers who are scared of the violence in Mexico and the higher labor prices int he US will invest in Canada. Canada has lots of assets – what it does not have is good government.
the movement of manufacturing to Mexico has likely peaked. If Mexico does not solve its violence and Cartel problems its ability to grow its economy has peaked.
Lots of production is moving from Europe and China and South Korea and Japan to north america.
Where in north america it will go depends on labor costs, labor skills and the quality of government.
But it is coming no matter what. This is the worlds largest market and despite the mess Biden and Obama made of things the only significant developed economy in the world whose future is not bleak.
If he said it you’d probably believe it.
Money is already flooding in rapidly. Many are already starting the process of building factories. Those that wait too long will be at a great disadvantage in the future and they know it. Get your a$$ out of your mouth and brain because you sound more stupid with every post.
They don’t realize how transparent their mental illness is. If they could say, “I don’t care for Trump, but it is admittedly a good thing to have $3 trillion in pledged investment, even if, say, only half of that comes to fruition,” I could respect that.
But they can’t say that. It is impossible for them to get any such words out of their mouth. Instead, their go-to is always: “No it’s not good for America because . . . muh Trump.” When people are that way day in and day out, never once varying, nothing they say can be taken seriously. But they’re not intelligent enough to figure that out.
“ Money is already flooding in rapidly. Many are already starting the process of building factories. ”
LOL!!!!!
And your evidence of this claim is? Nothing, because you’re making it up.
MAGA RELIES on “made up facts” that the rest of us call lies. That’s how the fat orange one got into office—the lie about groceries.
You’re importing all of your food fyi. Don’t you people ever work?
There are no winners here. There’s only bad, worse and worst. There’s no standards. You’ve sunk into tribalism.
Fat orange one? What’s your big fat tribe?
–that’s just gigi “regurgitating” whatever she reads on HuffPost and MSNBC again.
At least she can read.
The MAGAtards clutch to every lie Trump tells. They think he built a wall. They think he balanced the budget in his first term. Cuz Trump said he did.
Hyundai is one of those companies. They got the land and have been getting permits for construction. You are too stupid to deal with. Yes, it takes time to move billions of dollars, but it is being done to the advantage of these companies and our nation.
Look at how many times you have been wrong considering Trump, whether it be he will be convicted, or the Russia hoax, Ukraine, etc. You know nothing about business, and the chances are, you don’t have much to look forward to unless you receive an inheritance. Your type of mindset should never be hired for anything requiring a brain.
And, you cite, as factual proof for your MAGA claim–what? NOTHING. Name the company and location of factories that are actually being built right NOW.
who is this ugly poster Gigi? Needs to be removed.
LOL, you can’t address the question so you want the commenter censored. All normal in MAGAtard land.
Strike a blow for the Indispensable Right!
Good call.
This, uh, forum would be a lot better if registration was required and anonymous posts not allowed.
Guess Turley’s not selling enough books to afford a real forum.
There is no point providing you with any factual data. Have you reviewed the data I supplied regarding the British Mandate at length? Of course not. You are as stupid now as you were then. When you start dealing honestly and stay on one subject, you can have a helpful dialogue with someone. That would be a tremendous change from your life in a sewer.
Factories. Guess who else thought national tariffs coupled with factories were the way forward? Stalin and Mao.
Five year plan. Fail.
Great Leap Forward. Fail.
Trumponomics. Fail.
“Factories. Guess who else thought national tariffs coupled with factories were the way forward? Stalin and Mao.”
You are so stupid. You don’t know that most, if not all Presidents had tariffs.
Do you breathe air. Stalin and Mao did so you must be them. Your logic is impeccably stupid.
ATS – pledges or not – these are near certain to occur.
TSMC is at great cost and great pain moving the the US – even though the cost and time to build fabs here is far higher.
Why ? because the market is here, the threat from Chna is gone, and there is no threat of Tarrifs.
Why is Hyundai moving o the US – because they have an upside down demographic curve, They are slowly losing their ability to produce in South Korea, and they are shifting to the Japanese model – Design and manage in South Korea, produce in the market – and Hyundia;s market is in the US.
Japan started moving production for US markets into the US decades ago. Germany started more recently. Mercedes, Audi;s and now even Airbus is building in the US.
SK faces the same problems as Japan only they are a few decades behind in reaching a crisis.
Most of the EU has similar problems to Japan – that were made even worse by the Urkaine war. the EU is deindustrializing.
China’s rising standard of living over the past 50 years have slowly eroded the value of cheap labor. Today the production costs of many chinese goods are within 15% of those made in the US. Which is a threshold at which moving production tot he US or elsewhere makes sense.
And China’s demographic problems may be the worst in the world – businesses that outsource to china see the writing on the wall. China will not be able to maintain its total production capacity. it will slip over time.
Tarriffs the cost and unreliability of pacific transport and the unreliability of chinese manufacture are other factors that increasingly favor the US.
Numerous LEFT LEANING geopolitical analysts have for years been reporting on the decline of globalization and the shifts in global markets and production.
Africa is a mess, but ifi ti can ever gets its act together it would be one of the worlds largest markets as well as having massive natural resources and a growing population. Africa has many many pluses. But it has a shitty education system some of the lest skilled workers in the world, the worlds worst transportation system, and the worlds worst ports and oportunities for ports. Africa has a bright future if it solves its problems – but not anytime soon.
South america has most of the advantages of africa and few of the problems of south american. Expect South America to be a major interest of the US in coming decades. Expect south america to boom if it can free itself from a century of paternal socialism.
Countries in the pacifi rim are either rising or failing. South Korea, China and Japan have HUGE and unsolveable demographic problems Japan has pioneered a model to try to ride out the disaster. South Korea is trying to adopt the same model. China can not. China is likely to collapse int eh next two decades – maybe sooner.
Chinese manufacturing capacity is moving somewhere – some of it back to the US.
The US under Trump is at this moment hostile to immigration, in the long run that is going to change.
Manufacturing is moving back to the US – the US is reindustrializing. But that can only go so far with the current demographics.
While the US does not have the demographic problems of most of Europe, Russia, China, Japan and South Korea, we have mildly negative demographics and we can only re-indistrialze a small amount before the demand for labor exceeds our capacity.
Not significantly reported on and likely not popular with Trump’s base Trump has repeatedly said that he is open to MORE legal immigration.
Legal immigration in the US is 1M/year, it must go to 2M/yr if all illegal immigration is shutdown just to maintain the status quo.
It must go to 3M/yr to support reindustrialization.
Those of you on the left should celebrate this investment in the US. Ultimately it will increase legal immigration.
I would further note that while illegal immigration has been a huge political win for trump – both in 2016 and more so 2024 (probably because the country was actually in a recession that past 3 yrs if you adjust for inflation). It is also a huge political issue in Canada, and Europe – with a HUGE difference. The US can restore a booming economy and when it does the demand for jobs will restore the american openness to immigration. Europe likely can’t. The EU needs massive immigration RIGHT NOW. But it is facing a far more massive backlash than the US is.
Americans have deep problems with the chaotic immigration of Obama and the far more chaotic immigration of Biden.
They have problems with imigrants when job growth is weak to non-existant.
When the american working class is fully employed – they are the most welcome to immigration in the world.
If we stop the mess at the southern border, the human trafficking, the drugs, and the out of control chaos. If we jumpstart the demand for jobs – Americans will be happy to accept people from Venezeula who tend to be educated and skilled compared to many other immigrant groups.
OldManFromKS,
I read the J and J investment of $55 billion would result in $100 billion in American domestic revenue. The Hyundai investment of $20 billion will also bring some 1.400 jobs at a $5 billion steel plant in Louisiana. More good paying jobs for Americans!!! More MAGA winning!! And let us just recall, it is the Democrat party that is fighting against these kind of investments and real job creation in America. They truly hate America. They are truly sick.
Yes, they are. It is evidenced in that, no matter what good happens while Trump is in office, they spit on it (see the comment above yours). They are indeed mentally very ill.
I like this and have suggested that it was possible here.
Eliminate some district courts. Congress can do it. The first cesspool to pump out is the DC system.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/rcna197986
Wow, Tulsie Gabbard looks like an absolute moron in the hearings. She “cannot recall” and “there was no classified information” in the chat. But they can’t provide the committed the full discussion because there’s information that is….classified. You cannot make this stuff up.
They know they screwed up big time. Gabbard is not faring well. Then this BS about the CIA ‘authorizing’ the use of Signal as a legitimate means of communication leaves out the fact that it can delete entire discussions which is in direct violation of Federal records laws and it’s not even known if it’s officially sanctioned to be used. They are making it up as they go along and it’s not looking good.
No George this is not in direct violation of federal laws.
No George Gabbard did fine.
This is a small embarrassment – nothing more.
Walz is likely in serious trouble – not for this event specifically, but because Trump is going to want to know Why his NSA has Jeffrey Goldberg’s contact information in an enxrypted communication app. The most likely explantion for that is to be able to leak informatin to Goldberg.
I do not know if Walz will survive this – but if he does not, it will not be because of this particular event, but becuase of the discovery that he was communicating via an encrypted channel with a journalist.
I expect that there will be an EO or other directive going out requiring Executive members to remove journalists from encrypted communications apps.
And once again you do not KNOW schiff about classified communications.
John say, It is indeed a violation of federal laws. Waltz set his side of the discussion for deletion after four days. Since it was an official government communication it is required by law to be on record. Even the CIA director pointed this out.
“ This is a small embarrassment – nothing more.”
it didn’t look like a “small embarrassment” to her. She looked like a deer in headlights.
“ Walz is likely in serious trouble – not for this event specifically, but because Trump is going to want to know Why his NSA has Jeffrey Goldberg’s contact information in an enxrypted communication app.”
Turmp knows now. Walz is not the only one in Trouble. Question still remains. Why were they using Signal and not the official governemnt channels or protocol? This is exacltly why those protocols exist. Everyone in that chat enabled this fiasco to get to where it did. They were not supposed to be on Signal at all.
That they had no idea Goldberg was even makes it worse. It’s a serious security breach and you could tell the military officers sitting with Gabbard, Patel, and the other guy knew this was bad.
“ but becuase of the discovery that he was communicating via an encrypted channel with a journalist.”
He wasn’t. He stupidly included Goldberg in the chat Walz created. That still doesn’t excuse the fact that nobody questioned who JG was.
“ I expect that there will be an EO or other directive going out requiring Executive members to remove journalists from encrypted communications apps.”
An EO is not going to fix the problem. Signal is used by sources of journalists and apparently White House staff who wish to hide or avoid federal record laws. Corruption is/was a big thing for the right. Now this is a mere mistake? Please.
“ And once again you do not KNOW schiff about classified communications.”
You don’t either, but now everyone knows because if these incompetent boobs. They exposed the fact that Trump administration officials are circumventing the law by using an unsecured network owned by a private company.
Because JD Vance was also in the chain the presidential records act applies. If this was a “sanctioned” method of communication and it’s only unclassified information as Gabbard asserts then the White house can produce the entire conversation with a simple FOIA request, right?
We both know that is not going to happen. Because they were discussing classified information. Goldberg knows they are lying because he’s seen everything they saw. Attacking Goldberg just makes things worse. Walz may not be fired or face consequences, but they will certainly not trust him with setting up more Signal group chats.
Repeating the same nonsense does not make it true.
As the Pentagon papers case makes clear – Goldberg is perfectly free to make the entire message string public – whether classified or not.
I have Zero interest in his claims about it.
I do not want his claims or opinions. Put up or shut up.
John Say,
Well said. And now it is being reported it was not Waltz’s who sent the invite to Goldberg but one of Waltz’s staff. I am in wait and see mode to see how all this plays out. As noted it had no impact on the strike on Yemen at all. Thus far, no classified information was disclosed. You also pointed out yesterday at how our low information, no information leftist friends know about how security works and classification ratings. BTW, I can recall Rosetta while in the Marines.
“ Thus far, no classified information was disclosed.”
It was disclosed to Goldberg. He was not supposed see the whole discussion and that includes detailed war plans. Be definition classified information was disclosed. Goldberg had an opportunity to disclose the plans hours before it was implemented. That is a serious problem. It was fortunate for them that Goldberg has a sense of integrity and professsionalism. That’s more than can be said about the 18 morons who decided it was a good idea to keep talking on an unsecured network outside SCIF and official government channels.
No not by defintion, even the senate democrats did not by that claim, they were trying to get somewhere and rules covering the discosure on not classified but limited distribution information.
Discussions about what shoudl be done in Yemen shoudl not be done publicly. But it would only be final desiiosn that would be classified.
Ratcliff and Gabbard denied most of your assertions under oath.
Goldberg is free to publish the whole stream. If Gabbard and raddcliff testified falsely – they are toast.
The KNEW when testifying that Goldberg had the whole stream and could publish at any time.
It is highly unlikely they would choose to end their carreer by lying under oath with the certainty of being caught.
That is a left wing nut bone head move.
Lets say Goldberg published immediately.
EDither the attacks would have gone forward and little changed – the Houthis had no time to move weapons and if they tried that would have been noted by drones and spy satelites and they would have been obliterated out in the open.
This was a grossly mismatched fight – and they WERE forewarned – by Trump repeatedly and they KNEW what US capabilitiesd are
amd they KNEW what they vulnerabilities were.
There is very little they could have done.
About the most I can think of is they could have shut down their air defense network and had less of it destroyed.
Upstate,
I also saw a report that they use government phones left over from the Biden occupancy and prepped by the FBI. It seems there are many ways that contact could have gotten into a phone. They should have someone trustworthy check the rest of their equipment.
It is an indication of how desperate they are that they are trying to turn this into some sort of Kim Philby problem.
Great point Young. It seems the Trump admin should not use any communications equipment left over from the “Joe Biden” admin. They should destroy it all, and start anew. This incident proves it.
This incident PROVES that MAGA media are liars and that Trump and his administration are liars and incompetent. It also proves that you MAGAts will believe any lie MAGA media puts out. As reported by NPR: “Goldberg said he received a connection request on Tuesday, March 11 from a user on Signal identified as Waltz and accepted it. Two days later, he was added to a group chat on the platform called “Houthi PC small group.” Over the course of the following days, Goldberg told NPR in an interview that he was exposed to “operational military information,” including discussions about planned military strikes on Yemen targeting Iranian-backed Houthi rebels.
Goldberg said he was in disbelief over the security breach, noting that he was not vetted before being added to the group chat.”
gigi – it proves that someone mistakenly added Goldberg – that is a very embarrassing mistake.
As to Goldbergs claims – the pentago papers case says he can publish.
He hasn’t.
I have no interest in what he says were in thise messages.
When the actual mesaages are available.
Put up or shut up.
Young,
Seems the swamp is doing everything it can to keep the status quo. While in Afghanistan, I knew a officer who would always parrot, “The devil you know!” and would not lift a finger to change from the status quo. As a result, we lost in Afghanistan. Him and his kind within the government need to be rooted out by DOGE. If not, they will bring America to it’s demise.
Trump needs to treat the White House, etc., as if it were previously occupied by the Russians or the Chinese.
Or currently occupied.
On the phone issue I may have erred in saying the FBI had set them up. Currently it appears that it was actually the CIA. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone on the administration used Oldman’s approach and trashed Biden phones and used only new stuff. I believe I would.
You and Meyer: Stop lying. No one “set up” anyone. Trump and his merry band of incompetent liars screwed up. Royally. And, they won’t take responsibility for it.
Gigi, are you having difficulty digesting the truth?
There is no evidence anyone – except possibly Goldberg has lied.
It is possible this was a setup, but Waltz says it was not. Waltz has nothing to gain from saying it was error rather than setup.
Waltz has taken responsibility.
Another MAGA media LIE: Goldberg was INVITED to join. Excerpted from NPR:
“Goldberg said he received a connection request on Tuesday, March 11 from a user on Signal identified as Waltz and accepted it. Two days later, he was added to a group chat on the platform called “Houthi PC small group.” Over the course of the following days, Goldberg told NPR in an interview that he was exposed to “operational military information,” including discussions about planned military strikes on Yemen targeting Iranian-backed Houthi rebels.
Goldberg said he was in disbelief over the security breach, noting that he was not vetted before being added to the group chat.”
As I surmised yesterday, MAGA media and the utter failure of a Trump Administration would try to find some way to blame Biden.
I have no interest in NPR or golbergs words.
Goldberg has the streams, he has the invite.
Put up or shut up.
No one cares about what left wing nuts SAY.
There is a record here – provide it.
Do not tell me about it. I do not care what left wing nuts tell me I should think.
I am capable of judging for myself.
Biden is not responsible for this.
But Biden’s CIA did bless Signal for use in secure communications.
There is an allegation this was a setup. Waltz has denied that.
I think it is unlikely. Regardless even if it was – that would be another Reality Winner, not a Biden originated plot.
This is embarrassing.
it is also small potatoes.
Someone shoudl be fired.
Thats about it.
This is an embarrassment. It is not good. but it is much smaller than the botched withdraw from afghanistan.
The mistake is somehow allowing Goldberg on this stream.
Someone likely will get fired.
That is about it.
I do not know if classified information was disclosed.
It is certain that no MARKED classified information was disclosed.
The argument that the discussions of how to proceed are classified is not without weight.
There is no doubt that someone was careless (or malicious)
If you were in the marines – then you know that the consequences of mishandling classified information are different for different classes of people. With rare exceptions – such as getting paid by foreign enemies for classified information, releases of classified information by govenrment contractors result in loss of clearance, or firing. They almost never result in criminal charges.
Conversely in the military sharing not even highly classified information with others who also have sufficient clearnacne but no need to know could result in a court marshal and jail.
Actual govenrment employees fall in between. The government employee who leaked US plans regarding South Korea to the press landed in jail. Hillary Clinton and her staff got a free pass. VIA director Deutch got a slap on the wrist and a pardon.
I strongly suspect someone will get fired over this.
That is probably appropriate.
Congress investigated – I think that was not necescary – but they are free to do so.
The hearings wer a fixzzle, From what I can tell they did not invite Goldberg.
The administration is refusing to release the message stream. I think that is a mistake.
it may be embarrassing – but so long as Goldberg has it – it is likely to get out.
And like it or not the Pentagon papers case says Goldberg can publish.
The fact that he does not – suggests he is lying.
The fact that the administration does not, suggests that there is embarrassing content.
Still better to clear the air and move on.
I do not know enough to say what I would do.
But I think someone needs to be publicly fired.
Turley is absolutely right that Government not be engaged in infowarfare. To make that stick, citizens need civil lawsuits to deter government censorship that move at the speed of those manipulative machinations.
But is that enough? What about government (or candidates/campaigns) pushing out false narratives as an alternative to suppressing facts they don’t like? What about public frauds intending to dupe the public? The citizens need the same fast lawsuit response. That is the only way to stop an election-tilting “whopper” in its tracks (e.g. Hunter’s laptop).
Or, we can give our political opponents the “right to dupe” as a lax, anything-goes version of “free speech”. The (informed) consent of the governed be damned.
DEar Prof Turley,
It’s a little late for genocide Joe. Nobody has seen him since the election. (I suspect he’s in a padded room somewhere where he belongs .. . playing with his own poo.)
Donald J. TRump is president now, and it already seems forever. He’s crazier than a 3 legged billy goat on the 4th of July. On a good day.
If they don’t f*ck you one way, they will fu*k you another.
*special note. for the record, criticism of Bibi/Isreal’s ongoing ‘genocide’ in Gaza is *not* the same thing as ‘antisemitism’.
@dgsnowden: Denying the facts despite them being very obvious and having a double standard where Israel is concerned makes you an antisemite. Will you look at facts and history? No, like many antisemites, you are too stupid to do so.
When you see danger, you can go hide behind your wife and children. Never waste your own life defending yourself when you can use women and children.
S. Meyer– Their lying about Israel is just a paper mache thin and weak disguise for their core antisemitism. It is most obvious on campuses and particularly in the EU.
I have said from the beginning that I think Israel is being too soft on Gaza. After the evil that culminated in Oct 7 I was in favor of carpet bombing all of Gaza, doing the Dresden, Hamburg, Tokyo treatment. People would complain for about a week and then move on to some other au fait ‘issue’ and Israel would be done with that problem for good…maybe many others because perhaps other hostiles would want to avoid the same remedy.
Israel hasn’t been calling the shots, so I agree. Right now, radical changes are ongoing, with opposition heads falling. They are significantly responsible for the failures of Oct. 7, but much more needs to be done. Biden is gone and was anti-Israel even trying to overthrow the Israeli government with taxpayer funds. As you say, Israel is too soft on Gaza, but we have stupid antisemites like dgsnowden who refuse to deal with the facts. Even when he holds a correct position, he is thin on facts, though he, like George, thinks himself is a sophisticated person of the right when he sounds like a child.
Sometimes, I like to listen to the Pulse of Israel, hosted by Avi Abelow. He lives in Judea-Samaria and believes in being strong in Gaza and the West Bank, which I agree with. Israel is sovereign over what was the British Mandate, excluding Jordan, which originally was supposed to be part of the Jewish homeland.
Thanks for that. I would like to listen to Pulse of Israel.
I agree, the Biden Occupancy was an enemy of Israel.
Seeing Trump in the White House after everything he faced is almost enough to make me religious and believe in miracles. I think the whole world is safer.
Just watched one of the videos on Pulse of Israel, the one about all hell breaking loose. Clear relief that they finally have an American President who backs them. I am relieved as well. No more ‘proportionate’ response. Just destroy them.
I’m glad you liked it. He brings a unique perspective—he’s an American who moved to Israel and lives in the West Bank. He really knows who he is and doesn’t hold back from saying what he feels. His kids are out there serving and fighting while he talks to us, and he’s out there too, patrolling his area. He even fought in at least one of the earlier wars. He shares what’s really happening in Israel, every day, straight from the ground.
You again.
I don’t need to study history to know this ain’t no war S. Meyers. ‘Hamas’ is probably living it up at Bibi’s seaside swimming pool with movie stars and everything.
This is the Israel army, armed to the teeth with the most sophisticated US weapons, blowing up women and children by the thousands. There is no justification for that.
*a few conspicuous acts of kindness would go a long way in the ‘history books’.
You think they are blowing up women and children. That is because, as a coward, you would let your women and children die to keep yourself from fighting and possibly being killed. There is much proof that most of the dead women and children are dead because of Hamas or that they were involved in killing Israelis. Don’t bother spending your time looking at impartial observations. Instead, ensure you have your women and children set up to protect you from any untoward disaster. In your family, it is dgsnowden first and then fvck the kids.
S. Meyer–
I won’t look for it now but in his history of WWI Churchill offhandedly remarked that innocents would be killed of course. War is terrible.
But as to Gaza, I don’t care about them. That feeling was reinforced when Trump told how when visiting with rescued hostages he asked if any of the Gazans showed any compassion or humanity, a crust of bread, a wink, a word that all would be well. NONE.
I care nothing for the Gazans.
Even the Nazis were better. Goebbels and Himmler were disgusted by the mass executions and tolerated them only because they convinced themselves they were necessary. It was recognized that many soldiers couldn’t endure doing it and were excused. Years ago I attended a lecture by a brilliant man who had been in Auschwitz. He was put to work supervised by soldiers. All the prisoners noticed that one of the soldiers would scream and shout and rage but would never actually strike or punish a prisoner. It was theater. After the war that soldier was put on trial and the prisoner who gave the lecture I attended testified on his behalf and he was acquitted. More tiny sparks of humanity in Auschwitz than in Gaza.
It’s difficult for me to admit how horrid the Gazans appear. Are there good Gazans? I assume yes—but the vast majority would kill if permitted. And as we’ve seen, they don’t stop at killing. They behead babies, rape and murder women and children—alive or dead. They reflect the worst of human nature. Yet idiots like dgsnowden kiss up to Hamas, thinking it makes them look like professors, elevated and above others, when in fact they remain at the bottom of the heap, both morally and intellectually.
Yes! There was more humanity among the Nazis at Auschwitz than in Gaza. And I speak as someone personally familiar with Auschwitz.
I used to believe nothing could be more depraved or evil than the Nazis but then I read of Nanking and, worse yet, the horrible things done by the Japanese in China described in Factories of Death. And then Oct 7th. How anyone can excuse it is beyond my moral comprehension. Kick the Hamas apologists the hell out of America.
dgsnowden – not that it’s likely to do you any good, but here are the three D’s of antisemitism:
The three Ds of antisemitism or the 3D test of antisemitism is a set of criteria formulated in 2003 by Israeli human rights advocate and politician Natan Sharansky in order to distinguish legitimate criticism of Israel from antisemitism. The “three Ds” stand for delegitimization, demonization, and double standards, each of which, according to the test, indicates antisemitism.
You can find out more with a google search, but I doubt you will be inclined to do so given your past comments.
Jonathan: Sorry, but your testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee is not going to be the focus of attention today. Rather it will be the bombshell article by Jeff Goldberg in the Atlantic yesterday. There a number of Qs to be asked.
First, why would DJT’s national security team use Signal to discuss war plans.? Signal is a commercially available app like WhatsApp except Signal is encrypted. It permits a chat to be deleted afterward. That’s the only difference. Second, why wasn’t the Commander-in-Chief not participating in the chat? When you are discussing war plans the President should be there. I looked at DJT’s calendar for March 15. He had better things to do. He was at Mar-a-Lago playing golf and hosting a fundraising candlelight dinner! That’s why he claimed ignorance about what his NSC was doing.
My take away from Goldberg’s article? That DJT has put amateurs and clowns in charge of national security and war. They are DJT’s version of DEI hires because they will do anything he asks of them–without any questions.
Now I know what would happen had Joe Biden done this. The Republicans would be putting together Articles of Impeachment and demanding everyone on the NSC be prosecuted for violations of the Espionage Act. With the MAGA Republicans in charge of Congress nothing like that will happen. None of the people on the NSC are qualified to perform their responsibilities. They are unwilling to ask the tough Qs when it comes to waging war on another country!
At the hearing, CIA Director John Ratcliff testified that during his orientation training, others at CIA installed Signal on his computer. Ratcliff testified that the use of Signal was a holdover from the Biden admin.
The most important question is: why is the NatSec team not trusting the established secure network? Is it missing features they would like to have found in newer apps? Do they suspect moles or leaks?
We know Hillary Clinton was using a private server system to shield her daily communications from FOIA.
The NatSec team deserves and needs secure comms. Now, let’s fix this by getting to the bottom of my question.
And the source for this BS is?
Testimony under oath in congress.
Of all people, it is not possible Jeff Goldberg, editor of The Atlantic, was ‘accidently’ added to Houtie PC group.
*what do you know about it?
Houthi
Senator Warner by his own criteria should have resigned. He checked out a FISA warrant then left the room and allowed Wolfe to photograph and release it to the news media. An unredacted version which the American public has never seen, only 40 – 50 or more news media have seen it. Then Wolfe was only given a token sentence by Katenji Brown who was rewarded with a seat on the Supreme Court.
MAGA bs. Trump could rape your mom and you’d blame her.
Simple Dennis,
I read a few texts, they didn’t look like war plans to me. They did talk about concessions they wanted from other players. Seems like it could have been a deliberate leak to make sure other parties were put on notice.
A goodwill reminder: never go full Dennis.
OldFish,
Thank you for the reminder!
@Dennis
Seriously: how much are you paid (the going rate for DNC trolls is $50-$1,000 per post, depending on the situation), or alternately, how bored are you? No one with an actual, meaningful life has the time to do what you do every day. We all refute you. Why are you wasting your time? If you aren’t young, then how bitter and sad do you have to be as an older person that should have learned even a soupçon from their life continue to do this every day? Really: it’s old, it’s tired, no one cares, and you are basically just polluting things at this point. And it begs the question again that perhaps that is the point. Go blow, George. Nobody cares. Not a one of us. You change the minds of exactly zero people except toward their opinion of you.
*Sorry, Dennis. Dennis, George, Gigi, ‘Anonymous’, potato, potahtoh; you are cut from the same sad and rotting cloth. You continue to give people (and the smart ones read this site) reasons to never vote dem, or in other countries, left, again. Keep it up, I guess. And them bear the fruits. Ranting at people that believe in freedom and actually know better than you is not going to get you where you think you want to go, and we sure as heck aren’t going along.
James,
More likely our leftist friends need a distraction from something much more interesting, ‘This is a problem’: Boasberg attending anti-Trump org’s event spurs calls to ban judicial junkets
“Judge Boasberg attended a conference funded by an anti-Trump organization. Now there are calls to ban privately-funded judicial junkets altogether.”
“Harvard Law Professor Emeritus Alan Dershowitz also said on the John Solomon Reports podcast on Monday that Boasberg’s attendance at the Rodel Institute conference was “a creation of, obviously, a conflict of interest, at least in appearance” and that “when you have cases like this, you have to be absolutely above reproach.”
https://justthenews.com/government/courts-law/problem-boasberg-attending-anti-trump-orgs-event-spurs-calls-ban-judicial
Dennis – the Signal news item will be YOUR focus today. It will not be the focus of the sane 85% of the country.
Those of you on the left does not seem to grasp that
You do not matter any more.
Democrats have been gloating because the GOP is not holding town halls because left wing groups are bussing in paid disrupters.
But a Democrats Congressman’s townhall turned acrimonious late last week over constituents anger that that Democrats are out of touch and impeding what voters want.
Bill Barr spoke recently about the deportations and was perfectly clear – Boasberg is Way out over his ski’s.
The invocation of the AEA is perfectly proper – that those being deported under it are entitled to a Habeus hearing – which they can still get where they can attempt to establish that they are NOT Tda members. But that by Law Habeus Hearings take place individually in the district in which the person resides or was deported from. That DOJ found that the Maduro regime was actively involved in sending criminal gang members into the US to disrupt the country more than 6 years ago – that Trump’s finding is both correct and not reviewable by the court and the application of the AEA that Trump is making is extremely narrow – purely Tda and other Venezuelan gang mebers where those gangs have been tied to the Venezeulan government. Trump could have used the AEA to deport all Venezuelans. That the DC appellate judge who said Nazi’s in WWII got more due process clearly had no clue about the history of deportations of germans, italians, and japanese during WWII – no they did NOT get more due process.
Further that Due process is legally on a sliding scale. The due process owed a person in the US illegally is very small and amounts to no more than -“are you here legally”. Barr said there was no doubt that theuse of he AEA would be upheld and that it was highly likely that SCOTUS was going to do something about nationwide injunctions and possibly even more importantly Judges going way outside their jurisdiction.
Barr pointed out that Boasbergs jurisdiction is NARROWER than the DC circuit, It is not nationawide, In this case it is limited to the specific plantiffs that brought the case – and they were NOT deported to El Salvador. There is no such thing as a class action Habeus case, and that Habeus cases must be raised int he jurisdiction of the deportation. And in AEA cases are limited to attempting to prove you are NOT subject to the AEA as invoked which in this case would mean not an AEA member.
John Say: Thanks for bringing up the Bill Barr interview.
(I realize that your comment is to “Dennis” but you brought up Barr.)
What Barr just said about Mahmoud Khalil is precisely what I said to “George” last week–at least three times.
Barr is not exactly a Trump supporter….
Dennis
“Why ….. ?”
Why are you entitled to know ?
What you wish to get into is irrelevant.
What is relevant is was classified information shared with a journalist ?
And if so was that intentional ?
Trump is doing a far better job of getting the right people, Making the big policy decisions, and delegating the rest to trusted subordinates.
There is no doubt that Trump made the decision to target the Houthis,
There is no doubt that Trump made the decision to direct Musk to audit govenrment agencies.
There is no doubt that Trump made the decision to use the AEA of deportations.
There is no doubt that Trump made all the major policy decisions of this administration.
There is no doubt he signed the Executive Orders that are being used to impliment those policies.
There is no autopen here. These EOs were signed by Trump in the Oval Office with the press present and often on TV.
At the same time Trump did not pick the Tda members to deport, he did not schedule the planes. He did not conduct the negotiations with Venezeula that fell through for the return of Tda members
He did not conduct the negotiations with El Salvador to take them.
He did not decide the targets and weapons to be used in response to the Houthis.
He made the big decisions and delegated the decisions regarding implementation to trusted senior administration officials.
Trump is correctly asserting that he was not involved in the implimentation decisions.
But he is not trying to blame anyone.
He is supporting the decisions of his senior administration and using the presidential bully pulpit to criticize those who attack his officials and try to interfere with the policies that americans voted for.
The Trump administration will prevail in all of this in the long run,
And even if they do not – it will be the left and the courts that the american people are angry at.
It is correct and proper for our courts to defend the rights of citizens – even when those rights or citizens are unpopular.
But it is also critical for the courts to be correct in those determinations and not to interfere where they are NOT protecting the rights of citizens.
The courts are undermining their own authority.
No Dennis the president of the united states does not discus which weapons to use and which targets to hit.
The president of the united states does not discuss the specific Tda members to arrest and deport and what flights to put them on.
The problem with the Biden administration was NOT that people did not beleive Biden participated in the implimentation details.
It was that we are unsure that Biden even made the big policy decisions.
Outside a very few specific things like legislation which the President MUST personally sign, the issue with Biden was NOT the use of Autopens. but that the use of autopens is evidence that presidential decisions were being made without the president.
There is no doubt today that What the Trump administration is doing was directed by Trump.
But people are not stupid – Trump is not scheduling planes or picking specific targets or weapons packages.
One of the reasons that the Trump administration is far more dangerous to you left wing nuts is because Trump is not coming in alone this time, but with a small army of people he has spent years vetting who he Trusts to act within their delegated responsibility much as he would.
Trump’s appointments this time arround are a force multiplier, rather than chains constraining him
Dennis – Joe Biden botched the withdraw from Afghanistan – Americans and many others died as a result.
Just as Obama/Clinton bothed the handling of 9/11 in Libya at the cost of the life of a US ambassador and other americans.
No americans died as a result of this. While many Houthis and there weapons were destroyed.
This is an error and embarrassment, It is not a crime. Absent Goldberg sharing communicatiosn with the Houthis National Security was not at risk. Regardless there was no harm.
There is a question as to why the NSA had Jeffrey Goldberg in his Signal Contacts – andhe might lose his job if he does not have a good explaination for why he would need encrypted communication with a journalist. It is likely that he administration will order the deletion of journalists from Signal contact lists.
This is what you think is the big story today ?
AG Barr says that Boasberg has no jurisdiction and that the findings that Tda is a Maduro operation date back to the Biden administration, that the Tda members had all the Due Process the law allows, but that if they want to file Habeus petitions in the correct courts they are free to.
And that Trump will not only easily win on the AEA – that his application is standard, and that Trump will prevail on these nationwide injunctions – that the courts in question did not even have district wide authority.
And that would be from AD Barr who you have trotted out everytime he says anything even slightly negative about Trump.
Separately there is a Ukraine Russia cease fire in the Black Sea. While Ukraine has done an excellent job making the Black Sea inhospitable to Russian warships, Ukraine needs to transport grain through the black sea and without this cease fire their ships are at risk and at the very least this will drop insurance rates and significantly increase grain shipments. Ukraine gets to make money and Russia gets to avoid the embarrassment of losing another capital ship to the Ukrainians.
In addition the Houthithis keep getting hit. Iran is put on notice.
Elsewhere – the courts rule AGAIN against Fani Wilson who is sinking fast and could well face criminal charges, and certainly hass pissed off the GA courts. She has a long long list of legal battles ahead regarding her at the very least unethical and possibly criminal conduct.
In NY a forensic acountant exposes Leticia James for her Own Real Estate Scam. She is wither overstating the value of her property to the banks or understating it to the City – or both. Further she is misstating material facts about the property that effect code compliance, value, etc. Describing the property in different and contradictory ways depending on what looks best for taxes, for code compliance or for a mortage.
Didn;t she sue Trump for less significant real estate issues ? Where is Judge enMoron the nipple judge when you need him ?
In other news the US made a deal with Venezeual and deportation flights to Venezuela will be resuming.
DOGE found several new scams
Bachatya is confirmed as the head of NIH
Columbia caves on censorship and antisemitism.
Democrat town hall blows up,
Rep. Crockets insults the TX governor over his disability.
Negotiator WitKoff says there is long term hope for a meaningful deal with Iran.
DOJ Invoked the state secrets priviledge with Judge Boasberg – this effectively shuts him down until SCOTUS makes a decision.
RCI reported today that 1503 Federal Agencies have nocongressional authorization – Some have zombied on without authorization for almost 50 years. Trump can shut any of these down completely with the stroke of a pen.
This is just SOME of the news of the day that you choose to ignore – while fixating on a tempest in a teapot
Thank you for your life’s work in championing Free Speech.
Those who espouse censorship always want the speech of other people censored, never their own.
stop being NICE
Democrats are Fascists…speak out!
Trumpsters support America joining North Korea, Russia and Iran to vote against Ukraine. Traitor.
. . . to vote against Ukraine.
You don’t explain what in the heck you’re talking about. Evidently you’re referring to a United Nations vote from a month ago that the US did not vote for, after it was amended. The idea Trump is against Ukraine is belied by the facts, and only a clown would make such an allegation, whether expressly or by implication. These are facts everyone knows, so you’re not fooling anyone. Whereas Biden willingly fed hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian young men into the meat grinder, Trump is trying to stop the killing off of that entire generation. He is far more pro-Ukraine than “Joe Biden” – who was just a tool of the money-laundering racket getting wealthy off the violent deaths of millions of people. The fierce opposition to Trump comes from the fact he is trying to end that corrupt money-flow and save lives, most notably, Ukrainian lives.*
*I mentioned this in a comment on the previous page but forgot to sign in.
OldManFromKS,
In more good news of Trump ending the war and working towards a real, lasting peace, Trump admin strikes deal with Russia, Ukraine to secure Black Sea shipping
https://justthenews.com/government/security/trump-admin-strikes-deal-russia-ukraine-secure-black-sea-shipping
One step closer to peace than Biden ever did.
In more good news of Trump surrendering and working towards a real, lasting peace…
OldManFromKS,
Something occurred to me; Trump is all about pro-peace. To end the death. Or we could say Trump is pro-life . . . might explain why our leftist friends are so against Trump’s attempts to end the war. What other party is so dedicated to death?
“…so against Trump’s attempts to end the war. What other party is so dedicated to death?”
Little snowflake. You don’t surrender to tyrants for the sake of “peace.”
You don’t surrender to tyrants for the sake of “peace.”
That’s the kind of one-dimensional thinking that leads to World War 3, and possibly, nuclear Armageddon. I’m not surprised you posted it anonymously. A negotiated peace is in the whole world’s interest. You’re behind the times. The killing in Russia and Ukraine has to stop, now.
The president of Mexico in 1848 realized this, America kept all of Texas, and we’ve had centuries of peace between us and Mexico. The same will happen in Ukraine once a negotiated peace is reached with Russia being satisfied NATO will not admit Ukraine. You have to understand Russian history a little better than just dismissing Putin as a “tyrant” or making silly childish comparisons with Hitler, when the situations are completely different. We certainly would not put up with Chinese missiles just across the Rio Grande from Texas.
Russia is a natural ally of the U.S., China is not. We should be peeling Russia away from China and back into our sphere, rather than pushing Russia into China’s arms, as “Joe Biden” did. Like it or not we will have a better chance of standing up to China in the future if Russia is aligned with us, and a far worse chance if Russia and China continue there present alliance. Your black-and-white “Putin man bad” attitude will never succeed in advancing our national interests well into the future.
That makes no sense. You must have attached it to the wrong comment.
OldManFromKS,
This appears to be one of the lesser or even non critical thinking skills anonymorons we have plaguing the good professor’s blog. They have never been in uniform, never been to a war zone and always demands more war when they have no skin in the game. Even if it is WWIII that they are cheering on for.
A wise person is patient and lets their enemy destroy themselves. Russia has the 3rd worst demographics in the world.
Russia as we know it is collapsing – possibly in the next decade.
Instead of risking a nuclear war that would kill billions. The wise choice – for the US and Ukraine is to accept a peace that ends the dying and wait for Russia to slowly implode.
Ukraine is not getting lost territory back today.
With certainty it will in the future.
The US’s most important nations security issue with regard to Russia should be sufficiently friendly relations to be able to protect Russian Nukes as Russia collapses rather than fighting stupid fights over the future of Donbas and Crimea – things that will work out in the long run regardless.
Imbecile, Trump accused Ukraine started the war.