During the ridiculous controversy over flags flying at the house of Justice Samuel Alito, the media and the left went into vapors over the inclusion of the “Free Pine” flag” or “Appeal to Heaven” flag — a flag with origins in the American Revolution. As I wrote at the time, this flag is neither racist nor extremist. Now, the controversy is back after a USA Today article by congressional reporter Zach Schermele, who wrote about how the “controversial Christian nationalist flag is hanging outside the D.C. office of a top Education Department official.”
The article goes on to note that:
“The flag, which was raised by rioters during the Jan. 6 insurrection… is adorning the office of Murray Bessette, principal deputy assistant secretary in the Office of Planning, Evaluation and Policy Development.
The “Appeal to Heaven” flag is the same that was flown outside the vacation home of conservative Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito in 2023, according to the NYT.”
To make matters worse for many, Schermele links to Wikipedia, which is not generally used by the media as a reliable source and has been criticized for the liberal bias of its editors, including by one of its founders.
The fact that different groups have carried the flag does not change the flag’s history or meaning. The rioters on January 6th also carried American flags, including “Don’t Tread on Me” and other colonial flags. They are symbols of our revolutionary struggle.
As I previously noted, the Pine Tree flag was commissioned by George Washington. The phrase “an appeal to heaven” comes from John Locke’s Second Treatise.
In my forthcoming book, Rage and the Republic: The Unfinished Story of the American Revolution, I explore the foundations of the American Revolution on its 250th anniversary, including the influence of Locke on the framers. The book discusses how one barrier to revolution was the view that citizens could not revolt against a King and owed him a sacred pledge of fealty. This was reinforced by references to biblical provisions such as Romans 13, where Paul the Apostle reminds Christians to obey civil authorities and be loyal subjects.
That view was shattered by Reverend Jonathan Mayhew, in his famous sermon “A Discourse Concerning Unlimited Submission and Non-Resistance to the Higher Powers” on January 30, 1750, from the pulpit of Boston’s Old West Church. Mayhew explained how such claims amounted to virtual blasphemy and that, when a sovereign denied natural rights bestowed upon citizens, they were not defending but defying the will of God by resisting.
Before Mayhew, however, Locke had articulated the same principle in discussing breakdowns in governance where citizens face power “about to enslave, or destroy them.” In such circumstances, they may justify their actions not with an appeal to their oppressors, but to the source of their natural rights: the Almighty. In writing about the right to revolution, Locke wrote the following in his Second Treatise:
“The People have no other remedy in this, as in all other cases where they have no Judge on Earth, but to appeal to Heaven. For the Rulers, in such attempts, exercising a Power the People never put into their hands (who can never be supposed to consent, that any body should rule over them for their harm) do that, which they have not a right to do. And where the Body of the People, or any single Man, is deprived of their Right, or is under the Exercise of a power without right, and have no Appeal on Earth, there they have a liberty to appeal to Heaven, whenever they judge the Cause of sufficient moment.”
Locke goes on to write that the ultimate source of rights rested with God, not the government or “positive laws” created by the government:
“… they have, by a Law antecedent and paramount to all positive Laws of men, reserv’d that ultimate Determination to themselves, which belongs to all Mankind, where there lies no Appeal on Earth, viz. to judge whether they have just Cause to make their Appeal to Heaven. And this Judgment they cannot part with, it being out of a Man’s power so to submit himself to another, as to give him a liberty to destroy him; God and Nature never allowing a Man so to abandon himself, as to neglect his own preservation: And since he cannot take away his own Life, neither can he give another power to take it.”
Locke’s hold on the Framers was evident throughout the Declaration, early writings, and, of course, the Appeal to Heaven flag.
It is not a “Christian nationalist” symbol. Ironically, it is a symbol that shows that natural rights transcend any national government. Natural rights are recognized by other religions. They can also be embraced by the non-religious as human rights that cannot be denied by any government. Locke is considered one of the most important writers of the Enlightenment.
If nationalist is meant to refer to the pride and identification as Americans, the flag is certainly that and legitimately so. It is an American creation and ties us to our common article of faith in natural rights.
The Pine Tree or Appeal to Heaven flag has flown throughout our history, even outside government buildings in San Francisco (hardly a bastion of Christian nationalism). It reflects a core principle of our unique revolution: that our rights preceded government and belong to us as human beings.
The controversy over this article notably follows a similar kerfuffle caused by Sen. Tim Kaine (D. Va.), who denounced a nominee who believed in natural law and the concept of God-given rights. Kaine even called those who believed in such a basis for government as akin to Islamic terrorists. To do so was to effectively lump Alexander Hamilton with Ayatollah Khomeini.
Kaine was upset after a Trump nominee for a State Department position was an extremist, cut from the same cloth as the Iranian mullahs and religious extremists.
Riley Barnes, nominated to serve as assistant secretary of State for democracy, human rights and labor, had said that “all men are created equal because our rights come from God, our creator; not from our laws, not from our governments.”
It is a line virtually ripped from the Declaration of Independence, our founding document that is about to celebrate its 250th anniversary. Yet, the line set off Kaine, who furiously labeled Barnes as an extremist:
“The notion that rights don’t come from laws and don’t come from the government, but come from the Creator — that’s what the Iranian government believes,” he said. “It’s a theocratic regime that bases its rule on Shia (sic) law and targets Sunnis, Bahá’ís, Jews, Christians, and other religious minorities. They do it because they believe that they understand what natural rights are from their Creator. So, the statement that our rights do not come from our laws or our governments is extremely troubling.”
After a torrent of criticism, Kaine later backpedaled on his attack on claims of natural rights.
Underlying both controversies is a modern resistance to the notion of natural rights as bestowed by God on all of humanity, rights that preexist any government. The “appeal to heaven” is a call for the protection of those rights that belong to all human beings as part of being fully human. Ours was the first true revolution of the Enlightenment based on those very natural rights. That is why this flag should be flown proudly by all Americans as the embodiment of the values that laid the foundation of this Republic.
The “Appeal to Heaven” flag has dual meanings: historically, it’s a Revolutionary War symbol for liberty and a people’s right to revolt against tyranny, originating from John Locke’s philosophy. In modern times, it has been co-opted by Christian nationalists, particularly from the New Apostolic Reformation, to symbolize a spiritual revolution to re-establish America as a Christian nation, linking it to efforts to overturn the 2020 election and support for Donald Trump, especially after its prominent display during the Jan 6th Capitol attack.
Locke “Versus” Sheets
Both sides are missing the point here.
The meaning of something — a word or symbol — is determined by its *context*, e.g., “trunk” (of a car), and “trunk” (of an elephant). In one context (ancient Greece), the pentagram symbol means the five elements. In a different context, that symbol means the occult.
By the same principle, in the context of Locke, et al., the Pine Flag means what JT noted. In the context of Sheets, et al., that symbol means theocracy.
How nice
Three more “fishing” are now sitting in Davey Jones locker.
Must be some great fishing out there.
Hey numb nuts, the thread is about a flag.
Hey commie… angry because you never grew a pair!
Who else but X’s girlfriend would fawn over X going off topic every day – and then have the public Midol Moment you just posted because somebody else did what your boyfriend X always does.
Is your name Karen?
This article and comment thread has been enlightening, and by “enlightening” I mean I’ve lost all hope for conservatives. Y’all will literally believe anything that Fox News and Newsmax tells you without doing an ounce of actual research for yourselves. I see nothing but regurgitated talking points from far-right propagandist media and X posts. The mis- and disinformation being fed to you all is astounding, and it hurts me that you refuse to see it.
Melissa Miller (aka Melissa Stocksen at 10:58 AM today) says:
This article and comment thread has been enlightening, and by “enlightening” I mean I’ve lost all hope for conservatives.
Melissa, darling: you keep switching your username here every 12 hours and you’ll quickly have your male (we think) counterpart X/George/Sveletz jealous. You two can amuse yourselves engaging in a race to the bottom of the Democrat cesspool.
And dearie… what kind of drug induced dementia had you truthfully claiming now that you held hopes for conservatives join you and become your fellow Democrat Marxist Useless Idiots.
Y’all believe CNN, the WaPoo with their promotion and defense of the Clinton/Obama fictional and felonious “Trump Russia Dossier” – without doing an ounce of actual research for yourself.
We see nothing but a new face on the previous Democrat demented commie, Gigi the back alley whore and Democrat propagandist.
We do appreciate that you keep it to just a few lines of regurgitated Democrat lies – Gigi’s run on paragraphs approached the length of the novel War And Peace.
It doesn’t hurt me in the slightest to see yet another vicious Democrat liar who has successfully been one step ahead of honor, credibility, and honesty their entire adult life while those human traits of decency attempted to catch up with you.
Please, if you truly feel hurt: do America a favor by signing an organ donor card.
If you do so, we can have at least some hope that you will do something useful during your time on this planet – even if you have to wait until you die in order to do that.
Is it cold in Moscow now? If you don’t meet your quota do you get send to Pokrovsk for a short time on the front with Ukraine?
Will you look at that!
Now we have all the evidence and impetus we need to initiate the repeal of the 19th Amendment and commence the reversal of the fertility rate, which is in a “death spiral.”
Gigi, is that you? I love how you leftwing snowflakes have meltdowns over the silliest things. LOL
Y’all… ignorant hillbilly?
Love the hair. Fits you to a tea.
LOL
Hey stupid, try: “fit you to a T (or Tee)”. Singular.
“The flag, which was raised by rioters during the Jan. 6 insurrection
There’s the tell for the Democrat propagandist from the Democrat-Mainstream Media Marxist Propaganda Complex – it was an insurrection. Despite the fact the FBI -no friends of Trump – said it was not.
I searched and couldn’t find similar commentary from him regarding the communist hammer and sickle and Antifa flags flown by the Democrats street thugs during the two day assault they carried out on the White House in their attempt to slaughter Trump and his family.
Communist hammer and sickle and pre-WWII German Antifa communist flags are all good, symbol of nothing. This flag, the Gasden flag, etc – now unquestionable signs of Obama’s declaration of Systemic White Racism.
in·sur·rec·tion
/ˌinsəˈrekSHən/
noun
a violent uprising against an authority or government.
18 U.S. Code § 2383 – Rebellion or insurrection
U.S. Code
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
a violent uprising against an authority or government.
18 U.S. Code § 2383 – Rebellion or insurrection
U.S. Code
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
Did the commie Democrat definition of insurrection get installed on January 6th, 2020? Completely different definition of insurrection just a couple of months earlier?
Don’t run away and hide in mostly peaceful gutless protest; stay and play:
AT DON’S DOOR 50 Secret Service agents wounded in White House riots as Donald Trump is taken to ‘terror attack’ bunker
https://jonathanturley.org/2025/12/16/no-the-appeal-to-heaven-flag-is-not-a-christian-nationalist-flag/#comments
At Least 70 People Disrupting Kavanaugh Hearings in Senate Judiciary Committee Confirmation Hearings Were Arrested
https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials/live-trials-current/brett-kavanaugh-confirmation-hearing/at-least-70-people-disrupting-kavanaugh-hearings-on-capitol-hill-were-arrested/
I equate this effort by the Schermeles of the world to re-define the meaning of something (so as to serve the re-definers) –with the same way that I view those “egalitarians” who try to kidnap historical reference of “all men are created equal” –to now mean a denial of any differences in quality/qualities among people,– (aptitude, intelligence, ability, effort, character)—and to try to further expand it to mean “equality of outcomes,” (e.g., wealth, ownership, income, recognition, promotional elevation), –irrespective of quality/qualities.
After all, -to social justice warriors and activist journalists, any “inequality” constitutes bigotry and hatred and injustice.
Well said, Lin.
“. . . ‘egalitarians’ who try to kidnap . . .”
That is a very astute observation!
How does a woman captured by celebrities and isolated see justice from abuses and invasion of privacy stalking. Exploitation.
New Records Reveal DOJ’s Yearslong Efforts to Shut Down Investigation into Clinton Foundation
WASHINGTON – Department of Justice (DOJ) records provided to Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) offer a behind-the-scenes look at how top leadership during the Obama-Biden administration repeatedly interfered to prevent DOJ prosecutors and Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) agents from investigating the Clinton Foundation’s financial dealings.
U.S. SENATE COMMITTEE on the JUDICIARY ~ 12.15.2025
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/rep/releases/new-records-reveal-dojs-yearslong-efforts-to-shut-down-investigation-into-clinton-foundation
Re:
Newly Declassified FBI Document Proves Fusion GPS Contractor Nellie Ohr Lied to Congress about Contributions to Crossfire Hurricane
Despite providing demonstrably false information to Congress, Nellie Ohr was never held accountable for contributing to the FBI and DOJ’s Trump-Russia hoax
U.S. SENATE COMMITTEE on the JUDICIARY ~ 05.28.2025
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/rep/releases/newly-declassified-fbi-document-proves-fusion-gps-contractor-nellie-ohr-lied-to-congress-about-contributions-to-crossfire-hurricane
“We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America.”
– Barack Obama
____________________
“We will stop him.”
– Peter Strzok to FBI paramour Lisa Page
_____________________________________________
“[Obama] wants to know everything we’re doing.”
– Lisa Page to FBI paramour Peter Strzok
_____________________________________________
“I want to believe the path you threw out for consideration in Andy’s office — that there’s no way he gets elected — but I’m afraid we can’t take that risk It’s like an insurance policy in the unlikely event you die before 40.”
– Peter Strzok to FBI parmour Lisa Page
____________________________________________
“People on the 7th floor to include Director are fired up about this [Trump] server.”
– Bill Priestap
_________________
“I had a discussion with the case team and we believe there to be predication to include former President of the United States Donald J. Trump as a predicated subject.”
– Timothy Thibault to John Crabb, U.S. Attorney’s Office, D.C.
___________________________________________________________________
The Obama Coup D’etat in America is the most egregious abuse of power and the most prodigious crime in American political history. The co-conspirators are:
Kevin Clinesmith, Bill Taylor, Eric Ciaramella, Rosenstein, Mueller/Team, Andrew Weissmann,
James Comey, Christopher Wray, McCabe, Strozk, Page, Laycock, Kadzic, Sally Yates,
James Baker, Bruce Ohr, Nellie Ohr, Priestap, Kortan, Campbell, Sir Richard Dearlove,
Christopher Steele, Simpson, Joseph Mifsud, Alexander Downer, Stefan “The Walrus” Halper,
Azra Turk, Kerry, Hillary, Huma, Mills, Brennan, Gina Haspel, Clapper, Lerner, Farkas, Power,
Lynch, Rice, Jarrett, Holder, Brazile, Sessions (patsy), Nadler, Schiff, Pelosi, Obama,
Joe Biden, James E. Boasberg, Emmet Sullivan, Gen. Milley, George Soros, John McCain,
Marc Elias, Igor Danchenko, Fiona Hill, Charles H. Dolan, Jake Sullivan, Strobe Talbot,
Cody Shear, Victoria Nuland, Ray “Red Hat” Epps, Don Berlin, Kathy Ruemmler, Rodney Joffe,
Paul Vixie, L. Jean Camp, Andrew Whitney, Lisa O. Monaco, Fani Willis, Alvin Bragg,
Matthew Colangelo, Merrick Garland, Juan Merchan, Timothy Thibault et al.
Thank You G
Death by Chee chee…
Cover of Deception:
Globe Magazine December 15, 2025
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~8kAAeSwGE5pNt9j/s-l1600.jpg
*. What can anyone expect from Kaine. It’s pitiful. There are problems in the Constitution, PT. The number of representatives should be drastically reduced. 80% of them are worse than their job implies. They’re an actual hindrance to a rational government.
The Somalis apparently think they’ve successfully resettled Minnesota and it’s theirs now. Overall it’s a 3rd world kleptocracy with many wanting the narco state to continue.
Brown University murders, Australian murders, and patricide are trending. Look at Obama stepping up to lead his forces. Obama should know when he’s defeated.
Also, now, the murder of a nuclear science professor at MIT, regrettably.
https://nypost.com/2025/12/16/us-news/mit-nuclear-science-professor-found-shot-dead-in-home-in-swanky-mass-neighborhood/
^^^^ An appeal to heaven is in John Locke’s , 2nd Treatise as is life, liberty and property. When there isn’t any earthly justice and injustice to these things is abused action is justified by God, the creator, nature’s law. Prayer isn’t enough.
The English used pine trees for their ships’ masts.
Justice and Mrs. Alito can fly any flag they choose including an SOS or Mrs. Alito can feeling and thinking moral outrage.
PS I’ve not ever heard of the pine tree flag. It’s a new England thing. It just continues and now via DEI and white man bad Arthur Schopenhauer got his ideas from Hinduism. Right…..
^^^ Locke’s natural endownts are life, liberty and property. A government is instituted to protect your life (Lakin Riley) , to protect your property (Texas) , to protect your liberty.
Kaine argues with this? Government shall protect freedoms- speech, press, religion, assemblage and the government is limited by actual evidence of crime in due process.
And much more.. we don’t like your taxes. We don’t like your infringement of 2A. We don’t like your fingers in our wallets. We don’t like our safety and property jeopardized. Think of the Fulton County government?
80% of congress is harmful. Kaine isn’t in the 20%.
🎄
Congress has been placed in checkmate by Article 1, Section 8, and the absolute 5th Amendment right to private property.
Read them.
America has been “INTERPRETED” into communism by the judicial branch, with emphasis on the Supreme Court.
“INTERPRET” appears nowhere in the Constitution, while merely the judicial power—the power to judge—is conferred on the judicial branch.
“nationalism”, like so many other words, has been re-defined by communist Democrats to have a new meaning: racism. Suddenly belief in and pride in your nation and it’s bedrock foundations has become “racism” in current communist Democrat theology.
Your family, your country as a republic, faith: those building blocks of our republic you support isn’t nationalism. No, that’s just trash that must be destroyed according to Marx and his theology of atheism.
All while Trump resuming enforcement of immigration laws has sent Democrats rushing back to hating police as fascists as they did starting with their chants of “defund the police” during Obama. That was prior to their police state fascists using lies to investigate Trump. They loved law enforcement then – now law enforcement has swiftly returned to being a Democrat political symbol of police totalitarianism, fascism, etc.
If you aren’t nationalistic to be proud of and support your country despite whatever current problems it has, the liberty and freedom this nation provides you with while not asking you to do a single thing by way of thanks is completely wasted on you.
If the Democrats in this country cannot say they have nationalistic pride in this country and what it has given them for free, despite whatever flaws they think remain with it, they are a party of culls, reaching out to other moronic low level losers, promising them they can be taken to even lower levels.
Like Rosie O’Donnell.
This was so much ridiculous word vomit regurgitated by conservative talking heads that I couldn’t even get through it. No wonder you’re anonymous.
Melissa Stocksen says: December 16, 2025 at 8:52 PMThis was so much ridiculous word vomit regurgitated by conservative talking heads that I couldn’t even get through it. No wonder you’re anonymous.
Rather than continuing your feeble efforts at regurgitating Democrat shyte while assuring us that you’ve tidied it up so that we can pick it up your turds by the clean end – why don’t you at least change your first name before becoming “Melissa Miller” all of 15 minutes after you posted this.
You planning on giving X/George/Sveletz a run for his money as the worst Democrat apparatchik liar appearing here, complete with one username after another?
Miller or Stocksen?? will the real BOZO stand up?
Mellissa,
What is your argument ?
Insults are not arguments.
Anonymous’s observations are basically correct – they are history.
You are free to argue that we SHOULD do things differently, but you do not get to rewrite the past.
It is true that the left loves to redefine words as the means of controling not just the argument – but peoples ability to communicate, and even think. George Orwell – who was most definitely NOT a conservative demonstrated how this works in his dystopia’s – Animal Farm and 1984.
And he wrote about it in his non-fiction.
Anonymous correctly notes that the left has redefined racism – Martin Luth King certainly did not define is as the modern left does.
Not only the US – but every country int he world has been deeply protective of its identity and culture.
No country in the world has been more tolerant of other cultures than the US.
Family and then extended family – Tribe were the core to human social structures for 99.99% of human exsistance.
Anything beyond a tribe is a modern creation -= the past 7 millennia.
Faith has also been core to human relations for nearly all of human existance.
If you wish to argue that a different sdtructure is better – make that argument.
But insulting people for stating what has been reality for nearly all of human existance just makes you look stupid.
OT, breaking, the FBI said it lacked probable cause to search Mar-a-Lago for classified docs. It could not find any witnesses who reported seeing classified records there at the relevant time. But it was pressured by the “Joe Biden” administration to conduct a search in violation of the Fourth Amendment. This story will probably be around for a while.
oldmanfromkansas, it was some field agents having doubts. Higher ups with better information and legal advisors made the decision and it was correct. Even Judge Cannon at the time did not buy those claims.
It’s a shiny new toy for MAGAs to salivate over because Trump’s FBI has been really incompetent lately.
Why do you lie george.
Rabble:
Oh wow, here comes Laws Georg to tell us how now, unconfirmed sources, or minor league sources are suddenly not supported in the reporting of “news”! What will Laws Georg think of next?
X this is little different from the claim of the Left that Eric Siebert was better able to judge whether to indict Comey than Bondi or Trump or Haligan.
With a few exceptions – Contra your claim – the FBI Agents in question ARE better situated – OBVIOUSLY, The issue here is WERE Classified Documents Observed at MAL. No Higher ups or anyone not present at MAL or receiving evidence from people present at MAL are not in a better position to know, they are self evidently in a WORSE one.
Biden Garland Jack Smith were not AT Mar-A-Lago – warrants are based on the probable cause that a crime was conmitted – the alleged crime in this instance being the unauthorized posession of classified document.s
To get a Warrant someone must swear they have First hand knowledge of classified documents at KMAL OR that they have 2nd hand knowledge from a credible source.
Conversely the Comey indictment – contra the left was NEVER about evidence – all the evidence needed to indict has been public for a long long time. You keep denying there is evidence – which is just stupid.
But there is zero doubt there is evidence.
The relevant question regarding Comey is is it worth the effort to prosecute this crime.
Lying to congress is unfortunately not all that serious.
Often the decision whether to prosecute is made But US Attorney’s or AUSA’s – Not the AG not the president.
But all decisions within the executive are the domain of the president and the president can choose to make any executive decision himself no matter how large or small. It has not happened Since George Washington who Litterally lead troops in an armed conflict While President.
Yes “Comander in Cheif” means the authority to act at any level within the military.
It is not normal for presidents to make decisions as to who to indict and who not to.
It is not even normal for AG’s to make those decisions though most are reviewed by them and the AG could always intervene.
But not normal is not the same as not constitutional.
Legal decisions can be made anywhere up the ladder.
Evidentiary ones can not.
You either directly observed something or it was reported to you be someone credible or not.
The president can compel you to read the law as he does or quit.
He can not force you to see things that are not there
“it was some field agents having doubts.”
The did not have doubts. They said We did not see classified inforation at MAL nor did we receive credible reports of classified information lying arround from people who could have.
as you go up the chain – you can be overruled by those above you on questions of law. You can not be overruled on questions of FACT.
You can not be told to say you saw something you did not or told to say someone credible told you they saw something when they did not.
If “higher ups” have direct or indirect knowledge – THEY must sign the warrant application.
” Higher ups with better information”
Were they invited to MAL ? No they do NOT have better information – and even if they did – THEY would be required to sign the warrant application.
“legal advisors made the decision”
Legal advisors are absolutely free to overrule lower on the ladder decisions of law.
This was NOT a question of law. It was a question of swearing to have seen something they did not or swearing that a credible source told them they saw something.
There is no room for belief, there is no issue of law.
“it was correct.”
Not a legal decision and not a decision higher ups can make.
It is not even a decision. It is an required observation in order to get a warrant.
“Even Judge Cannon at the time did not buy those claims.”
False the trial never got to motions to supress evidence.
With certainty the defense would eventually have filed a motion to supress.
At that time FBI Agents would have had to testify – not “higher ups”.
They would have to testify to what they directly observed and/or what a credible source reported to them that they directly observed.
“It’s a shiny new toy for MAGAs to salivate over because Trump’s FBI has been really incompetent lately.”
ROFL
They caught thee J6 pipe bomber – Biden had 4 years and did not.
They just stopped a terrorist attack from a group that Biden officials did not even know existed.
In case after case the FBI is back to doing their job – enforcing the law without partisan bias.
Patel has chased Agents out of DC and told them to go work on actual crimes.
John, that’s a long way to ignore that probable cause is based on reasonable suspicion. The reasonable suspicion was based on having an inventory of missing documents that were removed when Trump left the White House and went to Mar-a-lago. No surprise, there they were. People swore they were in Trump’s possession at the White House and were no longer there. This case is one of “follow the dummy,”
J”hat’s a long way to ignore that probable cause is based on reasonable suspicion. The reasonable suspicion was based on having an inventory of missing documents that were removed when Trump left the White House and went to Mar-a-lago.”
FALSE – no such inventory exists. Nor do you have your facts straight and if you actually read the emails between DOJ adn the FBI and/or you were the slightest familiar with even DOJ’s position ont he case you would know you do not have your facts straight.
There is NO CHARGE of removing classified information – Jack Smith in filings with Cannon directly asserted that the documents at MAL had arrived there without violating the law. This was a critical part of DOJ’s case. If DOJ Claimed that Trump had Removed documents from the WH on the way out the door – they would instantly lose the case. If Trump took these documents with him as he left office – they were declassified. DOJ’s claim is that these were documents that Trump had had at MAL for a long time that he had NOT intentionally removed at the end of his presidency – and ttherefore effectively taken ownership according to PRA and declassified by deliberately removing them to himself.
DOJ was claiming Trump had not declassified them – because they had been at MAL for months possibly years prior to the end of Trump’s presidency and that Trump’s claim to have declassified them was spurious because because he unintentiaonally was in psosion of them, The DOJ charges were SOLELY for Posession fo classified material – not removal.
This came up at the pretrial hearings. Cannon made it perfectly clear to Smith that if there were illegal removal charges there would be a who set of other motions by Trump to dismiss. Trump still claimed to have declassified these documents – as part of his broad EO declassifing everything Crossfire Huricane related. But the public still does not know if these documents were Crossfire huricane documents.
Regardless, DOJ’s claim was that these were documents Trump was obligated to return not documents he had removed.
And that he had failed to cooperate in returning them. Another claim THOROUGHLY eviscerated by these emails.
Over and Over the FBI made clear – “We can work with Corcharan. Trump has allowed us to Search MAL and told us we could have whatever we wanted.” That thoroughly obliterated Smith’s claims of illegal posession.
Regardless the FBI and DOJ had no inventory of anything until After the raid.
This should also be obvious from the Biden case. Biden’s classified documents were found by Movers removing documents from his UofP offices in DC China town. They contacted Biden’s lawyers inBoston who conducted their own search and then called DOJ months later.
Regardless my point is that Biden had hundreds of documents classified and otherwise that he was not allowed to have – and NOBODY KNEW – there was no “inventory” that would have let anyone know what to search for in Biden’s home – or people would have been their decades earlier.
You are once again Manufacturing claims – LYING – and doing so stupidly.
I have just pointed out Three different proofs that your claim that they had an inventory and knew what they were looking for is garbage.
” No surprise, there they were. People swore they were in Trump’s possession at the White House and were no longer there.”
False. What drives you to just make stuff up.
Absolutely no one Swore they were in Trump’s possession at the Whitehouse. No one actually swore anything.
We are learning from these memos that the source of the claim that there were classified documents at MAL was Walter Nutta who was interviewed by the FBI – he told the FBI that he moved boxes at Trump’s direction and there may have been classified documents.
AFTER that interview the FBI – received Trump’s permission to search for classified documents, found some took them with them.
And THAT is why they have no probable cause for a warrant – The ONLY account they had of classified documents at MAL AT THAT TIME was Nutta – and after the FBI searched and removed classified documents with Trump’s permission they had nothing that provided evidence there were more.
ATS – you do not have a single fact correct.
You clearly have not read the emails.
you paid no attention to the filings in the case as they were occurring,
If you did you would not be making stupid errors like this.
If as you claim Trump removed documents on his way out the door – the case would have been dismissed nearly immediately.
It is well established that if a President removes a classified document from a secure situation to an insecure one it is automatically declassified. That has occured with other presidents. But it has also been in the news repeatedly with Trump.
Intentionally unsecuring a classified document while president declassifies it.
And that is why Smith never charged Trump with removing classified documents.
Smith’s entire case rested on the weak legal claim that the documents arrived at MAL still classified – while Trump was president and long before he was leaving, and that Trump was obligated to return them and had refused.
The charge was unauthorized possession.
Wow John, you really don’t know how the law works. Evidence matters in order to convict. Signed affidavits and agents shown classified documents were stored there led to probable cause. The lying and stonewalling from Trump added to the suspicion. Turns out it was enough to issue a search warrant and they were correct.
Comey was never indicted. It was not valid due to Halligan’s illegal appointment. And the evidence did not show Comey lied to Congress. He never committed a crime. Neither did James. That’s the problem.
Wow John, you really don’t know how the law works.
Wow! X claims he has credibility in his new field of expertise: law professor. Add that to his previous claimed expertise in the military justice system and the laws of war, immunology, virology, etc.
“Signed affidavits and agents shown classified documents were stored there led to probable cause.”
That would be correct – and what the FBI was telling DOJ is they could not sign an affadavit
They did not personally see any classified documents at MAL after there June voluntary search.
and the credible third party – Walter Nutta would told them he had seen classified documents at MAL had said so PRIOR to the June search. There was therefore NO KNOWLEDGE that there were classified documents still at MAL.
FBI agents can not go to a court and say “We consulted a OUIjSA board and beleive there are classified documents at MAL”.
They must either have personal knowledge or a credible source. At this time Nutta was their only source – and Nutta’s knowlege was prior to the June search.
Actually read the FBI Emails. They do a pretty good job of explaining why there is no probable cause.
I would further note at this time Klinesmith had been prosecuted for providing false information to get a warrant.
And these agents – themselves lawyers, KNEW this was coing to be a very high profile case and that anything they swore to – The constitution requires SWORN claims to get a warrant.
These guys were NOT staying “we love Trump”.
They were saying to DOJ – you do not have probable cause and We are not going to set ourselves up to be the next Klinesmith in what with certainty would be an incredibly scrutinized case.
” The lying and stonewalling from Trump added to the suspicion.”
Again read the FBI emails they REPEATEDLY say – there was no lying or stonewalling that Trump told them they can come to MAL to search for documents whenever they want.
DOJ was the one that wanted to jump straight to a warrant. Specifcally J Bratt – who has numerous other ethics issues.
“Turns out it was enough to issue a search warrant and they were correct.”
Had this case proceeded and these emails came out – Cannon would have approved a motion to supress based on these emails.
As would 90% of federal judges.
Read the transctipts of Comey’s testimony in 2017,
his testimoney in 2020,
his emails for Richman,
and richman’s emails to him.
Until you have done so you are blowing smoke out your ass.
That latter are much fo the evidence that Kotar Kelley ordered sequestered
but that is really hard to do once it is in court filings that the media have access to.
Next read the dozens of emails between the FBI annd DOJ over the MAL search.
Then read the filings by Smith and the arguments by Bratt.
You are lying. While you are lying about the law.
Most importantly you are lying about facts that to a large extent are Public records of the communications of government actors.
Your opinions on the law have proven garbage todate.
But lying abotu easily accessible facts whose existance is not debatable, and whose contents is public, is just crazy lying.
No, John. You are fundamentally confused about how things work. The FBI doesn’t need an affidavit from FBI agents to have probable cause. Witnesses at the property did and that was enough to ensure a search warrant.
Comey never lied. The testimony he gave Congress was about a question from Sen. Grassley asking about Sen Rubio’s question. He never said what the DOJ claims. That’s why real prosecutors could not bring charges. There was no probable cause.
You’ve shown you can’t understand how the law works. You’re trying to put a libertarian context onto it where none exist. That’s your problem.
You’ve been wrong all this time.
John Say,
“ X this is little different from the claim of the Left that Eric Siebert was better able to judge whether to indict Comey than Bondi or Trump or Haligan.”
Seibert was indeed better. He was a competent professional. Halligan was/is incompetent. Bondi should have known better than appoint Halligan. Halligan could barely file motions properly and totally messed up the grand jury indictment. Same thing happened with Alina Habba. She was also illegally appointed.
Halligan got two different Grand Juries to indict Comey and James and she did so in a matter of days.
Siebert did not even try.
The Siebert clones that have taken over are failing to do so – likely deliberately.
Competence is proven by accomplisment.
Siebert BTW was obligated to pass on the Comey case – he has a conflict of interests.
He is neither competent nor ethical.
Calling a failue competent does not make them competent.
You keep railing about the incompetence of Trump’s people
Yet they keep winning.
Boasberg just got Backhanded by the DC court of appeals for his efforts to game the law to find Trump’s people in contempt.
They are out lawyering the ACLU and out lawyering Boasberg.
Trump has an unequaled record with SCOTUS and even a pretty decent record with left wing nut appeals courts.
This is he lawyers you call incompetent Winning – against ever more of your lawfare.
You keep telling me the Trump DOJ and FBI are failing. – yet that is not what the world sees.
Crime is down. Not enough – but still down.
750K people have been deported, 1.2M have voluntarily self deported.
The FBI is dumping evidence of malfeasance in myriads of cases.
Recent dumps – the FBI was investigating the Clinton Foundation for influence bpeddling – specifically involving Russia – starting in 2010 – Holders DOJ put the kibash on that investigation Clinton was being investigated for corruption in her Urainium one Role – DOJ put the kibash on that.
We have FBI telling DOJ there is no there there in the MAL case, and destroying your claim that Trump was not cooperating.
It is DOJ that was not cooperating.
Tyler Robinson was found in days.
The Rhode Island police are getting nowhere fast on the Brown shooter.
FBI found a demostic terror cell that the Biden FBI did not even know esisted and stopped a terrorist attack.
Patel and Bondi control the FBI and DOJ – in addition to actually doing the job, they are also going back through past FBI records and providing information that the FBI/DOJ have burried – often for over a decade.
These are documents congress subpeoned that DBI/DOJ denied existed.
Competence is based on what you accomplish – not your feelings.
OMFK
Report is on the heels of a massive effort within the DOJ to shutdown the investigation of the Clinton Fraud Foundation…
I smell Soros, Elias and Merrick Garland stink on it all.
As well as an investigation of Clinton Corruption in the U1 deal.
Where else would one search for stolen property than at the residence of the person who was responsible for returning it? This wasn’t just about classified records, it was about returning a great deal of expropriated material that belongs to the people of the US through the Federal government.
Where else would one search for stolen property than at the residence of the person who was responsible for returning it?
While refusing to do a similar search at the unsecured homes, offices shared with ChiCom agents, garages, etc of a former Senator who only got possession of stolen property by stealing it from secure facilities over a 40 year period of Senatorial criminality?
Projection:
Channeling one’s actions onto others typically refers to the psychological concept of projection, where an emotionally disturbed individual unconsciously or deliberately attributes their own thoughts, feelings, and anti-social or criminal behaviors onto someone else.
This is an internal defense mechanism which allows that mentally ill person to avoid confronting their own behavior and guilt by seeing it instead as as the thoughts and actions of another person who they despise and hate.
I admire when the autistic write opinions. The ability to regurgitate unrelated facts is a sign of that disability.
There was no further search of Joe Biden’s property because he initiated a search and quickly located and returned the material rather than involving his legal team to get them to perjure themselves and claim that all the material had been returned when they had not been.
There were multiple searches of Biden’s PROPERTIES – more classified docs were found each time.
Do you know anything about what you write ?
This crazy lying is stupid.
No Trump lawyer has been charged with Perjury.
And the documents just released demonstrate that Trump and his lawyers were fully cooperating with the FBI – even though they did not have to – and that the FBI agents involved were refusing to swear out a false warrant to “get Trump”
The records of a president – classified or not belong to that president if they want them – So said Clinton appointee Amy Berman Jackson – and many other federal judges over the past 40 years.
John Say, you have always been wrong about that. Presidential records do not belong to him. The PRA explicitly says this. You’ve had a fundamental misunderstanding of this since the beginning. Trump was not allowed to take those records with him, period. They belong to the U.S. government.
Not to worry, the judicial branch, with emphasis on the Supreme Court, will “INTERPRET” all the communists (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats, RINOs, AINOs) perpetrating the Obama Coup D’etat in America out of court or out of prison, whatever it takes.