Years ago, I called the pandemic arguably the greatest case of negligence in the history of torts. However, with millions dead and hundreds of billions expended, it was unlikely that China would ever be truly held accountable for its actions. Those failures include not only the alleged release of the virus from the Wuhan lab but also China’s concealment of the release until it had spread globally. A $24 billion judgment was secured in Missouri earlier this year, but China defied the verdict.
Now, it has countersued, naming former Missouri Attorney General and now Sen. Eric Schmitt, R-Mo., among others as defendants. Even by the standards of the Chinese legal system, this action is legally absurd. However, in the CCP-controlled court system, the verdict is little in doubt.
China posted a notice of the lawsuit in Wuhan, naming the state of Missouri and Andrew T. Bailey, in addition to Schmitt. Bailey is listed in the notice as the current Missouri Attorney General, but he recently left that job to become the FBI’s co-deputy director.
After international service under the International Convention on the Service Abroad of Judicial and Extrajudicial Documents in Civil or Commercial Matters, the defendants are called to appear before the Intermediate People’s Court of Wuhan Municipality of Hubei Province, Jianghan District in Wuhan. They are being sued for $356.4 billion Chinese Yuan, or $50.5 billion — just over twice the amount awarded in Missouri.
The complaint demands “public apologies on New York Times, CNN, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, YouTube and other American media or internet platforms, and People’s Daily, Xinhuanet and other Chinese media or internet platforms…”
The filing is premised on their bringing a successful action against China in United States courts and effectively defaming Wuhan, Chinese officials, and the government generally. I have taught torts for over 30 years and would be hard pressed to come up with a more meritless claim, but law means little in the Chinese court system.
The Missouri action named the Chinese government, various ministries, the Communist Party of China, the Wuhan Institute of Virology and the Chinese Academy of Sciences as defendants. They were found to have withheld information about the COVID-19 virus, failed to contain the outbreak, and actively hoarded high-quality personal protective equipment (PPE) while producing and selling lower-quality PPE to the rest of the world.
After securing the largest damage award in that state’s history, the current Attorney General filed with the U.S. State Department for diplomatic provided service to China in November 2025. Once service is confirmed, Missouri can return to the district court to obtain certification of compliance with service and seek to seize Chinese-owned assets, including real property, financial interests, and other holdings tied to the defendants.
That is what clearly prompted this tit-for-tat litigation in Wuhan.
The Chinese lawsuit names the defendants as an economic and reputational threat to the People’s Republic of China. It argues that their actions have had “negative effects on the soft power” of Wuhan and have “belittled the social evaluation” as well as adversely affected the “productivity and commercialization of scientific and technological achievements” of the Chinese Academy of Sciences and the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
It cites the defendants as having engaged in “vexatious litigation” that “defamed Plaintiffs’ reputation, resulting in huge economic losses of the Plaintiffs, and deeply endangering sovereignty, security and development interests of China.”
Obviously, this is not vexatious litigation in any actual legal sense. The Missouri litigation was based on long-established legal precedent, even if the judgment itself against a foreign nation was unprecedented in size.
The notion that these allegations constitute defamation is absurd. First, these allegations are well-established by various countries. China enlisted the World Health Organization (WHO) and others to echo its denials about the virus’s origin. Even after the Biden Administration sought to suppress evidence and views implicating China, federal agencies and experts ultimately refuted those denials.
Even under the more demanding standard that applies to public officials and public figures (known as the “actual malice” standard), China would fall short. There is ample and credible evidence to support these statements, including findings from other countries.
There is also a type of group libel element to the Chinese action.
Such lawsuits are very difficult to maintain. In Neiman-Marcus v. Lait (1952), a New York federal district court addressed a defamation claim arising from the publication of the book “U.S.A. Confidential.” The author wrote that “some” models and “all” saleswomen at the Neiman-Marcus department store in Dallas were “call girls.” It also claimed that “most” of the salesmen in the men’s store were “faggots.” The store had nine models, 382 saleswomen and 25 salesmen. The court found the size of the group of women was too big to satisfy a group libel standard. However, the size of the group of salesmen was viewed as sufficiently small to go to trial.
Here, China is suggesting that not only was the entire Wuhan staff but the entire nation was effectively defamed. That absurd claim was actually tried by a Chinese American group in the United States over Trump’s reference to COVID-19 as Kung Flu. The Chinese American Civil Rights Coalition brought that meritless case, which was quickly dismissed.
China is clearly hoping to engineer a verdict and then somehow use it to counterbalance or negate the Missouri judgment. It will still be tough for Missouri to ever collect on this judgment. However, the verdict was an important effort to secure a judgment on China’s conduct leading to a worldwide pandemic.
One has to assume that the Wuhan court will dutifully render a verdict to counter Missouri. It will do little beyond confirming in the mind of many that China is as nimble at manipulating the legal system as it is at allegedly manipulating spike proteins.
Ghislaine Maxwell Petition To Overturn Conviction Could Delay Release Of Epstein Files
“… Maxwell’s petition (her petition for a writ of habeas corpus) being filed comes just two days before the December 19th deadline the DOJ has to release its documents in accordance with the Epstein Files Transparency Act, presenting AG Pam Bondi with yet another opportunity to withhold crucial information the public has tirelessly fought to bring to light. ”
By: blueapples ~ Dec 18, 2025
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2025-12-18/ghislaine-maxwell-petition-overturn-conviction-could-further-delay-release-epstein
So what.
^ Anonymous says: December 18, 2025 at 3:38 PM says: ^
“So what.”
We’ll find out tomorrow December 19th, 2025 whether or not the Epstein Files are so radioactive they can’t be released ☢️
They might be kleptonite to Stupidman.
*. ATS a dog that won’t hunt.
We often think of crime and wrongs, but rarely speak of virtues and vices.
Merry Christmas, PT.
The good professor alludes to his earlier April 2025 posting about the Biden Administration’s attempts to suppress a/o discredit opposing positions on the virus’ origin.
Perhaps Defendants Schmitt et al could bring in various Biden Administration officials and media as hostile witnesses, then confront/challenge them with all the new,** suppressed, or discredited refuting evidence (including in-camera review of communications between CCP and Biden Administration officials/NIH/EcoHealthAlliance), -then perhaps a Counterclaim with Joinder of Additional Parties (permissive or necessary)
** e.g., March 2025, https://justthenews.com/government/security/german-spy-agency-convinced-covid-19-likely-came-wuhan-lab
December 2025, https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ndaa-requires-trump-spy-agencies-to-declassify-intel-on-covid-19-origins-and-chinese-obstruction/ar-AA1RYuGQ
Get it all under one roof for streamlining litigation process/complexity/cost/efficiency
EVERYbody let’s get stoned!
Lin, EVERYbody let’s get stoned!
Are you suggesting magic mushrooms? Go ask Alice and remember what the dormouse said.
Grace sure was Slick!
First of all, the consensus among the international scientific community is that the true origin of COVID has not been conclusively established, which is why the baseless lawsuit should never have been filed in the first place. Secondly, how hard does Turley have to work to ignore the BIG stories–like the blatant display of mental illness displayed by Trump last night–the fear and resentment were palpable–all coming on the heels of the disasterous revelations from Susie Wiles’ interview published in Vanity Fair That pathetic cacophony of lies was stunning–beginning with the lie that he “inherited a mess” that he is “fixing”. It was BIDEN who inherited a mess–COVID out of control, the country shut down–and BIDEN fixed it. Inflation when Trump took office was 3%–nowhere close to the historic high–and that is the same level it is now. He has NO authority to issue checks to the military–only Congress can do that, and they haven’t authorized it. AND–the military don’t receive their pay via checks–electronic deposit–so he LIED about the checks “being in the mail.” He lied about the cost of groceries going down–they’re going up, and his stupid tariffs are to blame. He made up figures about new electric generating plants and alleged commitments to build new factories. And dirty coal isn’t going to power and new facilities, either. Manufacturing jobs in the US are going down, not up, and unemployment has reached the highest level since the pandemic. It was sad, really sad. Trump apparently believes that since he got away with lying about losing in 2020 and lied about immediately bringing down the cost of groceries in order to get elected, that he can lie about these things and reverse his historically-low polling numbers. Americans are smarter than that.
To look for “consensus” [means agreement of OPINION], and NOT necessarily statements of truth or even facts.
As for the blatant displays of Mental illness, is it lost on you that your lefty kin are LARPing during legal ICE operations in childish costumes and face-paint, while many of them are shooting people??? You’re more concerned with DJT’s rhetorical aggrandizing—as all politicians and parties in power do—than the serious crimes going on in your ideological square???
Your TDS is a massive cancer of the brain. “Real sad.”
NO prior occupant of the White House was ever so blatantly mentally ill, so consistently lies about nonexistent “accomplishments” and who is consumed with jealousy and resentment. Did you MAGAts hear about the “Presidential Walk of Fame” and the pathetic plaques your hero had installed? Instead of Joe Biden’s photo, Trump placed a photo of an autopen device, used for decades by all Presidents, including HIM, and under the photo, the plaque said that Joe Biden was the worst President in US history. Under Bill Clinton’s photo, Trump-drafted plaque said that he beat Hillary Clinton, and under Obama’s photo, the plaque said that Obama was the most-divisive president in US history. All over the walls of this area are cheesy, tacky gold adornments. Doesn’t MAGA media report on polls over Trump’s immigration practices? Only 37% approve, and people all over the US publicly protest and try to stop ICE from arresting people–even in red states like Louisiana. Trump is a massive cancer not only on the US, but the world.
BIDEN!!!
I don’t know K, pretty hard to beat Clinton the sex predator and his Sociopath shrew of a wife. Although Barry and Big Mike run a close second…
Did you see the Tucker interview of Larry Sinclair about the man love coke binge?
“ I dealt a little bit, just some blow and weed”….
Have not seen a single person protesting ICE in my community.
Have not seen one in my county.
I have not heard of one in my state – but it is possible.
Joe Biden was the worst president in US history.
Recent Polling in NYT
Trump Border Secutity +8
Deporting immigrants who are here illegally and have criminal records
+77
Deporting those who fail to show up for an immigration status hearing +43
That is 72%
Deporting immigrants who are here illegally and arrived over the last four years +30
Deporting all immigrants who are here illegally +14
Disapproved
Using active duty Military (not the NG)
Deporting illegal immigrants who came to the US as children
Using money allocated to the military
Deporting legal immigrants.
51 intelligence officers say it has all the characteristics of a lab weaponized virus.)
“intelligence officers” are NOT communicable disease experts.
Communicable disease experts are not bio weapons experts.
I would also note that Communicable disease experts are also not exports on the structure of viruses,
They are experts on the symptoms and spread of diseases.
One of the majro problem we had with Covid – and one of the major problems with the lefts Cult of experts is that thee is almost no consequential problem on earth that is entirely within the domain expertice of a single group of experts.
Fauxi had no expertise on the effects of his policies on suicide, drug addition, jobs, the economy, mental health.
This BTW is why Experts almost never are the people who make decisions.
Leaders – CEOs, Owners, Mayors, Governors, Presidents get expert oppinions on a wide variety of areas from domain experts and then use judgement to way all of that advice to determine what is OVERALL the best choice.
“experts” can at best semi accurately make claims within their own domain.
It’s satire anonymoron
Did they find initials or names on the virus? Maybe a “sell-by date?”
They found highly polished unusual bonding sites, an indication that it had potentially been engineered and enhanced.
First of all, the consensus among the international scientific community is that the true origin of COVID has not been conclusively established,
Another gaslighting commie Democrat rushing to reverse his scientifically arrived at conclusion in defense of Biden and Fauci.
1. This is a 180% switch from the same Anonymous Democrat Commie Useless Idiot previously claiming that The Commie Democrat Party Of Science and Fauci were telling us there was was consensus among the international scientific community. Back then about a year ago, they were assuring us scientists had determined that there was no way Wuhan Flu (“you RACIST!”) could possibly have come from the incredibly insecure ChiCom NBCW military research facility that Fauci was funding and working with at Wuhan in violation of US law.
2. “Conclusive concensus” on anything within even the REAL scientific community (which doesn’t include scientists and doctors who tell you little boys can become little girls) is about as common as finding a unicorn’s foreskin.
But this was actually a long winded Gigi-reminiscent version of BBBBUUUTTTT…. MUH TRUMP!!!!! WE WANT OUR BRIBERY BIDEN BACK!!!!!
Anonymous, you are so sad. Feeling sorry for you. Can’t come out with your name? Hiding behind “anonymous”? Pathetic.
Sorry. The above comment wasn’t meant for you, it was meant for the other Anonymous.
Science is notr by consensus. I would further note this is really not a scientific question – it is more a question of evidence.
Despite all kinds of efforts to the contrary – there is ZERO evidence that Covid came from the wet markets.
There is ZERO evidence is came from nature – there would have been thousands of variants between RATG13 and Covid19 and no one has ever found ONE in nature.
The Fuerin Cleavage site is not something we have ever seen anything similar in a natural virus.
The Odds again ALL natural origins theories of Covid are about 13,000,000,000,000:1
If you wish to believe it came from a Different lab – that is probably only highly unlikely rather that astronomically unlikely.
Is there a one in several trillion chance that Covid did not come from the WIV – sure.
But betting on the lottery has far far far greater odds.
WHERE IS XI JINPING’S NAME?
___________________________________
AI Overview
The International Criminal Court (ICC) has recently indicted or sought arrest warrants for several high-profile foreign leaders, notably Russian President Vladimir Putin (for Ukraine) and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, alongside former defense minister Yoav Gallant and Hamas commander Mohammed Deif (for the Israel-Hamas conflict), signaling increased attempts to hold powerful figures accountable for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity, challenging traditional immunity despite significant political resistance.
Key Figures Indicted/Warrant Issued:
Vladimir Putin (Russia): Warrant issued in March 2023 for alleged war crimes (unlawful deportation of children) during the invasion of Ukraine.
Benjamin Netanyahu (Israel): Warrant sought in late 2024 for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity in Gaza, including starvation as a weapon.
Yoav Gallant (Israel): Warrant sought alongside Netanyahu for similar alleged crimes.
Mohammed Deif (Hamas): Warrant sought alongside Israeli leaders for alleged war crimes in the same conflict.
Rodrigo Duterte (Philippines): Detained in March 2025 on charges of crimes against humanity, showing the ICC’s growing reach.
800,000,000 Covid-19 Deaths Worldwide
That’s an obvious lie.
NOT THE RIGHT NUMBER ANON. 800 MILLION? WRONG!!
Search Assist
As of the end of 2021, estimates suggest there were approximately 14.9 million excess deaths associated with the COVID-19 pandemic globally, which includes both direct and indirect impacts of the virus. The reported number of confirmed COVID-19 deaths is significantly lower, around 5.9 million, indicating that the true toll is likely much higher than official counts
As of December 12, 2025, there have been approximately 7,102,614 confirmed COVID-19 deaths reported worldwide. However, this number is likely an underestimate due to various factors affecting reporting and data collection.
MORE LIKE 8 million not 800 million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW ANON!!! DUMB!
So, what you’re saying is that Xi Jinping et al. caused the deaths of 8 million people?
I stand corrected and concur emphatically!
Thank you so much!
When does the world and/or the ICC apprehend and prosecute Xi Jinping and Company?
SO why did you say 800 MILLION???? BOZO ANON!!
Those that are hating on China do so because China is successful, a true competitor, and is doing things that we wish we could do…grow a real middle class.
Treason!
X=CCP LOVER!! Just like Tim Walz!! COMMIE!
XchinkthinkXtinct
Uncle Roger wonders why are you afraid of egg fried rice? Where is your courage?
If you think China achieved all the glories you pander to [like growing a middle class, something we did long-long ago!], get educated—
everything they have was built on American jobs and American technology: China was merely recipient of off-shoring American manufacturing and jobs and open American University systems (unfettered access to labs and new developments). They achieved NONE of their purported greatness on their own.
Anonymous, you’re absolutely right. I’m not saying they got to the point where they are on their own. I never did. But…they are also not stupid. WE are mostly at fault because our corporations, companies that Republicans love to support and champion and take money from them. Made that money by offshoring manufacturing to China where at the time labor was cheap and plentiful. That meant bigger profits and American consumers got cheap products they could afford.
What they ARE doing is taking full advantage of the benefits of those technology “transfers”, education, and manufacturing methods and techniques and adapting them to their way of thinking and planning and it worked out, obviously, very well for them. We were so busy focusing on next quarter profits and margins while they were planning 50 year goals and we helped them get there and now it seems they may not need our help as much anymore. They can outproduce us, and have the capacity to build supply chains in record time. We don’t have anything close to that and it shows.
Not stupid? No, but their authoritarian leaders are. Inhumanly murderous also.
Their 50 year goal right now is how to save their diminishing population caused by stupidity.
WE are mostly at fault because our corporations, companies that Republicans love to support and champion and take money from them.
X offers us his excuse for his murderous fellow communists in Communist China and their ongoing crime wave: Like a rapist who tells police that the clothing his victim wore forced him to rape her, George says America forced the ChiComs to engage in decades of espionage and intellectual theft.
China had individual dynasties older than the US is now. China has surpassed the US in many areas of innovation and are well on the way to energy independence. They far outpace the US in ship building, high speed rail.
Of all the accomplishments written off about China’s use of American technology, factories, and academia – the US has even better access to those and has squandered that for Facebook and Instagram.
A worry is the number of Chinese research papers that are published in Chinese. Previously the English language was the universal default but that is waning.
I do not want to pi$$ on china, The major problem with China is their government – not their people, and not what they produce.
it is in theory possible for China to reach energy independnce – they have massive coal reserves and they have regions where it is likely they can Frack and tap significant amounts of oil.
It is not my understanding that they are doing much Fracking yet.
Their high speed rail is massively government subsidized and a major contributor to a chinese debt bubble that is likely to burst in years not decades.
TEchnology is NOT a factor in whether something is made in China or not.
The cost of labor, the cost of energy the reliability of infrastructure the cost of shipping and the skill level of labor are factors.
For the most part technology is portable – the best we can do is delay transfer. The US and the World have ACTIVELY tried to thwart China getting advanced chip fabrication technology. China produces massive numbers of Chips that are made with Technology that is several generations old. But then MOST electronics do not need the bleeding edge chop technology.
I work in embedded systems – this is a domain that is going to massively change our lives – it already has – it is more significant but quieter than AI. China today produces most embedded chips increasingly it designs most of them. Again on both production and design they are behind the US. But there is massive untapped potential in technology that is 30 years old
Futher we can not stop china or any nation from getting there – we can only slow them down.
We locked down completely 4nm chip production – China can not get the technology to do it.
That was supposed to delay them for a couple of decades.
China just recently produced 4nm chips on their own. While there is some “cheating” going on – this not really the equivalent of western 4nm production – it is not as good, it is not as reliable chips as not very large – but they did it much faster than we expected.
And they will solve the other problems.
But Chinas gigantic problem is that 1/3 of its GDP is exports and standard of living has risen to where they can not susteain it making low skill low pay products. And that is their competitive advantage.
China is going to shed jobs in export industries. They need to grow their domestic markets. They will have a competative advantage on imported products for a long time if they can make them. But they are losing their cometitive advantage on exports.
While X is as always full of Schiff
“everything they have was built on American jobs and American technology: ”
Incorrect, China’s explosive growth was due to an increase in economic freedom.
Technology is a CONSEQUENCE of economic freedom. If people are free enough improving technology is inevitable,
If they are not what little occurs is slow.
“China was merely recipient of off-shoring American manufacturing and jobs”
If not China – then some other nations – India has benefited too.
Off shoring of low skill low paying jobs is inevitable when standard of living rises.
If you keep low skill jobs you thwart rising standard of living.
We are seeing jobs returning (or leaving china) because the higher the standard of living in china the smaller the competitive advantage and the more other factors tip the scales. Low Skill jobs are NOT returning to the US – but a significant amount of Chinese manufacturing is – it is moving to highly automated and efficient factories that employee fewer high skilled highly paid people.
While low skill jobs are going to Thialand,. Malasia, Vietnam.
Regardless you are nver gettign low skill low pay jobs back and if you are smart you do not want to.
“unfettered access to labs and new developments”
You can not steal technology unless you are smart enough to be able to develop it on your own.
Technology stealing at most results in gaining a few months or years.
This is true whether it is US competitors or Chinese.
“They achieved NONE of their purported greatness on their own.”
China has a lot of problems. You are correct that their education system is not nearly as good as ours as one example.
But it is not garbage. They have raised their standard of living to about 12K/yr – that is for real, THEY accomplished that.
Conversely they have NOT come close to US standard of living – they have a long way to go.
They have almost 5 times as many people and 50% lower GDP
That is better than all of the third world, but it is the bottom of the first world.
Further China’s success is not a threat to the US.
China’s government is.
Is there no level of absurdity that you will not stoop too ?
There is Zero doubt that China has done dramatically better after Mao’s death.
From 1974 through to Xi’s assention to power China had near double digit growth Every year.
China went from the bottom of the 3rd world to the bottom of the first world in 40 years.
The went from a real GPD/capita of $90 – the same as it was in 1900 to $11000 – that is a MASSIVE improvement.
While most of us know this atleast on the surface. The details of this transformation and the driving forces behind it are in Nobel Prize Winner and one of the 4 greatest economists of the past 100 Years Ronald Coase last book – “How China Became Capitalist”https://www.amazon.com/How-China-Became-Capitalist-Coase/dp/1137351438
This is an excellent and easy to read book that not only explains the changes in China as China went from massively failed pretty pure socialism to a nation that is more than 50% free market capitalist.
The Book was publish just before Xi’s assention to Power and Coase died a year later.
The book details what China must do to continue its extrodinary growth.
Xi has done Exactly the opposite of What Coase Recomended and China’s is increasingly economically and politically fragile.
Increasingly the question is not if, but When the wheels come off China’s economy and what will happen in China and the world when that occurs.
Regardless China incredible Growth – unmatched in world history was the direct consequence of Chinese leaders turning a blind eye to small evolutions of Free markets at the margins until they had the oportunity to wildly succeed. With each small success that was not followed by a Government crackdown – as had occured under Mao, slowly more and more Chinese people were willing to engage in Fringe capitalism.
The rapid improvement explosion of standard of living did NOT occur because of Socialism, or because of deliberate policies of the Chinese Government – beyond the willingness of Post Mao Leaders like Deng to allow fringe capitalist experiments, and as each succeeded more were allowed.
I would note this exactly same process has been occurring in India over the sametime period with Very similar results.
Except that India started with a slightly higher standard of living and a more benign massively bureaucratic socialism
which it has been moving away from more slowly than China – as a result Growth in India over the same time period though absolutely incredible has only been about half that of China.
Still the Mechanism has been The Same – the gradual abandonment of some form of socialism and the government turning a blind eye to growing free markets.
And Both countries today has somewhat similar problems – Economic freedom alone will only take you so far. Reacing the standard of living in the west requires more than just economic freedom – it requires political freedom, it requires the general freedom to run your life as you please.
India is in better shape that China – it does not have the massive demographic collapse that China has a result of Bad Socialist policies.
It also has not back tracked on Political Freedom in the way Xi’s china has, and it has not engaged in the Failed Keynesian Economic Stimulus on the scale that China has.
Regardless, Absent a hard turn from Xi’s policies – China is in very serious trouble – both economically and otherwise.
China alone in the entire world is experiencing deflation right now. Small amounts of deflation are actually good and natural.
But large scale deflation results in economic collapse.
While it is possible – maybe even likely that the Doomsayers regarding China – the large number of economic and political analysts who are predicting a catastrophic collapse in China are incorrect. Japan is Weathering SOME of the problems China has – democgraphic collapse.
But Japan is not experiencing deflation and does not have a large number of economic bubbles teettering on bursting.
Trumps policies toward China are almost actively seeking to advance the schedule of Chinas collapse.
That is likely good for China and the world. Except that wounded super powers are incredibly dangerous.
Further more important that moving up the clock on Chinas collapse is, getting prepared to deal with the collapse of the 2nd largest economy in the world and the largest country in the world. The closest parallel we have to this is the collapse of the USSR.
John Say,
“ Regardless, Absent a hard turn from Xi’s policies – China is in very serious trouble – both economically and otherwise.”
Yet you show exactly zero evidence of what would cause China’s economy to be in Trouble?
“ Trumps policies toward China are almost actively seeking to advance the schedule of Chinas collapse”
What policies? Tariffs? They are hardly putting a dent on their economy. Trump has backtracked so many times on tariffs that it become a joke, (TACO) anyone?
You talk a big game with nothing to back it up.
China’s exports to the US are just 12% of their total exports. They will be fine. We will not, once the AI bubble bursts it will be a lot worse for us economically because it’s the practically the only thing propping up the US market today.
Your comparison of China to the USSR is laughable. The USSR collapsed because they could not switch to capitalism as easily a China did. China did something that is very subtle but also very important. They put aside Mao’s ideals without completely casting them out. They recognized that attacking elites, educated people, and focusing on education in engineering, science, and business, the very things Mao thought were against his socialist ideals was a mistake.
Your prediction about China’s collapse are based on hot air. WE are in a more precarious position. Trump’s policies are tanking and as I’ve said before the only thing holding the illusion of a robust economy is the AI bubble right now.
China plans things in 50 year increments. Xi’s stumblings or the next secretary’s leadership IS baked into those plans. They carefully choose their next leaders to match as close as possible those 50 year plans. The Chinese are very good at that and it shows.
You talk a big game with nothing to back it up.
X backs that proclamation up with all the credibility that he’s earned here. X’s krytonite is everything that is a mirror.
Projection:
Channeling one’s actions onto others typically refers to the psychological concept of projection, where an emotionally disturbed individual unconsciously or deliberately attributes their own thoughts, feelings, and anti-social or criminal behaviors onto someone else.
This is an internal defense mechanism which allows that mentally ill person to avoid confronting their own behavior and guilt by seeing it instead as as the thoughts and actions of another person who they despise and hate.
In this clown fixated and in love with X or what?
A little weird, sista!
In this clown fixated and in love with X or what? A little weird, sista!
Is this a bit of self-love from your Anonymous alter-ego, X? The one that now posts your Confederate Kluxxer commie crap you used to post when you had everything under the username “George”?
Or is this evidence that X/Anonymous/George/Svelez has, after all these years, finally found at least one friend?
If so, spare some of leftover change when you go out on a date to ensure you have some rubbers available before you crawl into bed. Some people should just not breed.
^^^
Self diagnosis at work:
Projection:
Channeling one’s actions onto others typically refers to the psychological concept of projection, where an emotionally disturbed individual unconsciously or deliberately attributes their own thoughts, feelings, and anti-social or criminal behaviors onto someone else.
This is an internal defense mechanism which allows that mentally ill person to avoid confronting their own behavior and guilt by seeing it instead as as the thoughts and actions of another person who they despise and hate.
“Yet you show exactly zero evidence of what would cause China’s economy to be in Trouble?”
I linked to Coases book – read it – then you can talk.
Regardless, if you bother to check – none of the claims I am making are uniquely my own.
The demographic collapses in Japan, China, Russia, Most of Europe and the US (in order of decreasing severity)
are will documented – do you actually need proof ?
No nation ever has survived declining population – the economic impact is horendous.
Japan alone of all the nations facing demographic collapse has been adressing it for several decades.
I am not sure that will be enough – But China, Russia, Europe have done nothing.
The US can likely manage – if legal immigration is increased to about 2M/yr.
Are you unaware of the massive housing bubble in China ? The US tanked the entire world economy in 2008 with a housing bubble that MIGHT have been about 200B large. China with a 50% smaller economy has a 16T housing bubble that they are dancing arround.
China since Xi has been engaged in significant Keynesian stimulus – we do not know how large China’s debt is – but it is likely larger proportionate to their economy than ours.
China is extremely opaque in data – so many of the problems in China have to be deciphered either with non-governmentt data or by noting conflicts between Government data – as an example China claims to have 5% GDP growth in 2025 – but Chinese reported tax revenues have declined. It is therefore likely that the GDP numbers are cooked.
Regardless you can find numerous geopolitical analysts to back up my arguments. They are not in agreement on how large Chinas problems are and how fast China is going to collapse – but almost universally China has dark clouds in its future – the only question is whether the huricane hits tomorow or in a decade.
““ Trumps policies toward China are almost actively seeking to advance the schedule of Chinas collapse”
What policies? Tariffs? ”
Among others.
“They are hardly putting a dent on their economy.”
China alone in the world is experiencing deflation right now.
Small deflation is good, Chinas is moving towards serious a serious problem.
A would note that Chinese deflation diminishes he impact of Tariffs.
It also means goods are cheaper for the Chinese in China – but it means savings are being destroyed and wages will start to fall after other prices.
” Trump has backtracked so many times on tariffs that it become a joke, (TACO) anyone?”
It is called negotiating.
“You talk a big game with nothing to back it up.”
I care a great deal about China – I actually want China to succeed, My Daughter is Chinese.
I do not want her country to be viewed as a villian globallly, nor to see it hit with Disaster.
China needs to get rid of Xi and return to its Pre 2013 policies.
It still has huge problems but they will be easier to deal with without an Actual fascist – and Xi is a REAL Fascist.
“China’s exports to the US are just 12% of their total exports.”
The European economy is stalled.
Exports are not going to fry up overnight – that is far from Chinas biggest problem.
China knows it has an export problem and is actively trying to boost domestic consumption.
Anyway – they have serious risk associated with the dependence their economy has on exports.
But it is the other problems that are the biggest threat.
But lets say the US reduces imports from China by 10% – that is 1.2% of their economy – sounds small.
But take 1.2% off of US GDP and see how happy people will be.
“They will be fine. ”
I highly doubt it.
You love experts – go look for the experts – most agree with me.
“We will not,”
The biggest US problem is the national debt. That is a drag on our economy. And serious risk if we can not grow the economy significantly faster than the debt. And that means cutting Government spending.
The next largest Threat to the US is the global economy – Europes economy is weak – I covered China.
While the US has a huge impact on the world economy – the impact of the world economy on the US is not insignificant.
But lets assume we manage to nvaigate those some how.
Inflation just dropped to 2.7% – yesterdays numbers. Needs to get lower but headed in the right direction.
We are likely to end the year with 3% Y2Y growth DJIA is up 12% that is 9% after inflation Biden barely got 9% over 4 years after inflation.
Regardless. a 9% DJIA is a predictor that 2026 will be good. S&P and Nasdaq are doing even better.
Tax cuts that will massively hit the working class are already in effect, But Witholding rates have no changed so people will see Huge Refunds in 2026.
Crude has dropped from nearly 100/bbl to 55 – some but not all of that has hit the gas pumps – the rest will come.
US oil production is at record levels, Energy costs are coming down and that will ACTUALLY bring other prices down.
More importantly low energy costs mean a thriving economy.
The FED is already hinting more interest rate cuts in 2026, and decreasing inflation and rising GDP mean the FED should lower rates.
That will further stimulate the economy.
Absent something like Covid or Katrina or economic problems in the rest of the world bad enough to drag down the US – it is likely we will see 4% growth in 2026.
So I will make a prediction – The economy is already doing better and it has been for a while, but most people are not experiencing that yet.
Starting early in 2026 people will start feeling the improved economy. The actual growth and more importantly the feeling of growth will brighten peoples moods through 2026, Trump and republicans support will improve, Democrats will decline and Republicans will hold the house and gain seats in the senate.
To be clear – that is based on the probability of significant improvement in the economy starting in early 2026.
If that does not happen – Dems take the house.
“once the AI bubble bursts”
There is no AI bubble to burst. While there are physical limits to the growth of AI barring a miracle developmnt in Physcics,
And the positive impact and growth of AI will be less than its proponents predict, There is no bubble, it will continue to grow just not as fast and proponents claim. It will positively impact the economy – both short and long run.
But for all its long run importantance, it is not in the short run a major economic factor.
Put differently – the drop in the price of Crude has more economic impact in 2026 than AI.
” it will be a lot worse for us economically because it’s the practically the only thing propping up the US market today.”
Only in your head. It is possible that AI stocks could gain less than they hope in 2026.
AI is a significant portion of stock market increases. But it is not a significant portion of GDP yet.
“Your comparison of China to the USSR is laughable. The USSR collapsed because they could not switch to capitalism as easily a China did. ”
That is a significant factor.
“China did something that is very subtle but also very important. They put aside Mao’s ideals without completely casting them out. ”
Nope – Mao is inconsequential except as lip service in China today.
China today is as Fascist as Nazi Germany. That change has occured entirely under Xi.
It makes China both very dangerous and very fragile.
“They recognized that attacking elites, educated people, and focusing on education in engineering, science, and business, the very things Mao thought were against his socialist ideals was a mistake.”
Do you think you can just make up things ? China is not particularly ideological today – and to the extent they are – the ideology is Fascims – that is Musolini’s
Everything in the state
nothing outside the state.
nothing against the state.
There is still a fair amount of Maoist socialism in China – as significant portion of the economy is still owned by the state.
But the real issue is that the Chinese capitalism that arose afer Mao is not subservient to the state as it was under Hitler.
“our prediction about China’s collapse are based on hot air.”
I am not alone.
“WE are in a more precarious position. ”
as noted above the number 1 risk to the US economy right now is the global economy. NOT the US economy.
“Trump’s policies are tanking”
Yet they are not – Govenrment employement is down 300K in 2025. Private employment is up – not the fake jobs under Biden.
2.2M illegal immigrants are gone. 750K deported and 60% of those criminals.
Crime is down.
GDP is up – and rising.
Inflation is headed down again.
Oil is WAY down.
There is 1%T of capital investment coming to the US over the next 4 years.
Interest rates are headed down.
Taxes are down.
The deficit is declining – though not nearly fast enough.
We are moving towards peace not war.
“the only thing holding the illusion of a robust economy is the AI bubble right now.”
When have you been right ?
“China plans things in 50 year increments.”
No they do not. Or more accurately that is NOT what drives the Chinese economy – and infact the nonsense about “Governmnt long term economic planning is WAS failure.
“Xi’s stumblings or the next secretary’s leadership IS baked into those plans. They carefully choose their next leaders to match as close as possible those 50 year plans. The Chinese are very good at that and it shows.”
You really no nothing about Chinese politics. No the Chinese do not plan their leaders. They have power stuggles – quite often VIOLENT power struggles, mini coups ….
Xi like Putin has gotten rid of most of the people in Power he considers a threat to him.
That is very bad for a country – it leads to pi$$ poor decision making because no one tells the leader bad news and no one tells the leader they are wrong, so they make decisions on bad information and yes men impliment those decisions.
I am hopeful that Xi will be out of power soon. There are rumblings he is in poor health – but again reliable information in China is hard to come by. There are also indications that he is already starting to lose power.
BTW that alone means that the situation in China is worse than you claim – coups and power struggles do not occur in China or any similar totalitarian state, unless the leader is perceived to be weak – either in poor health – or because the country is being misleade or both.
But the problem is because all but yes men have been purged when the leader loses power they are replaced by similarly bad people.
I think Xi is history in the next few years. I would not be shocked to hear he was “retired” tomorow.
But I am not expecting better replacements. China is going the way of the USSR – the question is when
And the danger is that instead of coming abart somewhat gracefully, whoever is the leader decides to go out with a bang and invade Taiwan.
First – while as usually you have very nearly every fact wrong.
I am not looking to pi$$ on China.
What China did from 1974 to 2013 was absolutely incredible.
You really should read Coases book – we have all seen what occured – but Coase explains HOW that occured – and you are completely clueless. The ONLY thing that the Government did that resulted in massive rapid growth was turn a blind eye to things they Crushed under Mao. Turning a blind eye was a Choice that leaders made – particularly Deng Xio Peng.
If China manages to return to the path it was on a decade ago – it will eventually surpass the US in GDP – assuming they can deal with the messess they have made. And that will be good for everyone.
Contra your claim ALL the problems in China today are the consequences of that Planning that you celebrate. Chinese planning Sux.
It is that planning that resulted in the disasterous 1 child policy.
i would suggest watching “One Child Nation”
But don;t do it on a day you do not want to be depressed.
https://www.amazon.com/One-Child-Nation-Nanfu-Wang/dp/B08CS5ZCT5
China’s birth rate is now 1.0 – the replacement rate is 2.1.
Nations do not survive that.
Regardless My daughter was adopted from China. I spent 4 weeks in China.
It is a wonderful country with bad government.
Fixing that would benefit the entire world.
The Chinese wasn’t a move from socialism – it was a move from rural agrarian to an industrialization nearly 100 years after the West started the same transition, but with the second-mover advantage to avoid pitfalls. In their speedy catch-up they have kept that momentum and surpassed the West in a number of area, but are handicapped by their tremendous population for which they cannot yet provide an individualized level of wealth equivalent to the West.
So far the social contract there is that the people will back the government and not complain about this disparity as long as the government is making reasonable efforts at progress.
https://cepr.net/publications/the-running-out-of-people-story/
Japan is in serious trouble. They are building robots to care for the elderly because there are insufficient youth to manage the task.
“The Chinese wasn’t a move from socialism ”
Not deliberately – but it was a move from Socialism to capitalism.
“it was a move from rural agrarian to an industrialization”
Ultimately yes – but the transformation of China to capitalism started in Agriculture FIRST.
At the time of Mao’s death China was an agricultural nation that was unable to produce enough food to feed people.
The first Post Mao experiments in capitalism were turning a blind eye to farmers raising and selling crops on their own.
The NEXT phase in China had capitalism move to the merchant class – people started small private shops selling things – private shops were not permitted under Mao.
The next thing that happened was the creation of stock markets and that allowed for the creation of businesses lager than family owned.
The very last thing that happened as China went capitalist was Industrial – and STILL a significant portion of the inductrial economy in China is owned by the Government.
“with the second-mover advantage to avoid pitfalls.”
That should have been true – but until recently it was not. In 1974 China was almost totally isolated from the outside world.
There was no second mover advntage because they did not know how the west prospered and they did not even know THAT the west was prosperous. Until approximately the 1990’s Chinas move to Capitalism was almost without knowledge of the west.
The reinvented capitalism on their own.
“In their speedy catch-up they have kept that momentum and surpassed the West in a number of area,”
Only a few. China had a completely $hitty telephone system and so they completely skipped landlines and jumped straight to Cell.
They also skipped credit and debit cards and went straight to electronic payment systems.
But mostly they still lag behind the west in most things.
“but are handicapped by their tremendous population for which they cannot yet provide an individualized level of wealth equivalent to the West.”
Completely False.
https://www.juliansimon.com/writings/Ultimate_Resource/
While the way that growth occurs is different in small population high standard of living societies and large population low standard of living societies. The fact is that in all instances more people is GOOD not bad. it is not a burden.
You observe China’s tremendous growth.
People in their 60’s in China remember having a standard of living of $300/yr. Today it is $11,000
You do not jump from $300 to $80K overnight or even in 40 years.
Regardless china’s growth is slowing because its freedom is once again declining.
the-running-out-of-people-story
Japan
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan#/media/File:Japan_Population_Pyramid.svg
China
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_China#/media/File:China_population_sex_by_age_on_Nov,_1st,_2020.png
US
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#/media/File:USA_Population_Pyramid.svg
China was very successful up to 2013 – it has been stagnant since then. China has claimed to have Growth in GDP of 5%/yr since then,
But had they actually done so they would have surpassed the US in GDP – they have not, they have actually declined relative to the US and now have an economy that is 2/3 the size of ours – slightly larger than that of the EU with nearly 3 times as many people.
Regardless we could learn from China growth from 1974 through 2013, and we could learn from its stagnation from 2013 through to today.
Again I recomend Ronald Coases Book “How China Became Capitalist”.
Chinas success was from abandoning economic socialism and allowing the emergence of free markets.
Chinas more recent stagnation is the consequence of failing to move forward – actually declining in Political freedom.
Ideology in government has consequences – and the ideology of the left FAILS.
BTW China is not Growing a middle class. For the past decade China has been stagnant.
The US absolutely should study China over the past decade – as an example of how to Destroy a rapidly improving economy.
John Say, Coase argues that China’s emergence as an economic power was the result of a spontaneous revolution from the bottom up. That is where he’s wrong. In China, nothing is spontaneous. Everything is deliberately planned.
“ China was very successful up to 2013 – it has been stagnant since then. China has claimed to have Growth in GDP of 5%/yr since then,
But had they actually done so they would have surpassed the US in GDP – they have not, they have actually declined relative to the US and now have an economy that is 2/3 the size of ours – slightly larger than that of the EU with nearly 3 times as many people.”
You have zero evidence to back that up.
In real economic terms Chinas economy is 33% larger than ours. Their purchasing power is $40 trillion vs ours $30 trillion.
China has a massive economic output BUT we have a much higher individual productivity per capita, We make our money form higher productivity from individuals, but the same individuals don’t see much gains from it because corporations are always grabbing the gains. Not individuals. In China they have more individuals with mass productivity and they experience better benefits with lower housing costs, food, transportation, healthcare, better infrastructure, and quality of life.
Our workers are working harder and longer and often with more than one job and see little out of it. They don’t have to work two or three jobs to barely make it. Because there are more of them and they are more efficient. China’s economy is more resilient than you think. Remember, they have more options when it comes to markets for their products than we do.
” In China, nothing is spontaneous. Everything is deliberately planned.”
What an ignorant statement by George Svelaz who is limping toward reality, like a dog with its tail down, conceding facts he once denied, but still presents a mess of an argument. Mao-era central planning failed economically, producing shortages and stagnation. Individuals and local wannabe entrepreneurs filled those gaps before legal approval, allowing China’s capitalism to emerge from the bottom up. The Party did not design this outcome; it acquiesced after the fact, tolerating markets out of necessity and only on the condition that economic autonomy never evolve into political independence.
Deliberately planned doesn’t mean micromanaged. Under Mao the Chinese government tried to control even the smallest decisions. Now the deliberate plan is to set up free-trade zones, to set up controls on them to prevent getting out of control. Those zones are not accidental.
” Now the deliberate plan is to set up free-trade zones, to set up controls on them to prevent getting out of control. Those zones are not accidental.”
Dead Wrong.
These free trade zones appeared because China was failing. The CCP recognized that the free zones provided what the CCP (The Left) failed to provide. After the fact, the CCP decided not to interfere and permitted growth of these free zones, but only with political subservience. Any entity or person (capitalist) who gained too much power outside of the CCP was constrained or eliminated.
“Coase argues that China’s emergence as an economic power was the result of a spontaneous revolution from the bottom up. ”
He does not argue it – it is exactly what happened post Mao.
It is also a reflection of one of the laws of economic – change happens at the margins
Even the left buys that if they think about it.
“That is where he’s wrong. In China, nothing is spontaneous. Everything is deliberately planned.”
If Planned means leaders Like Deng allowed things they did not plan to happen and protected them from ardent socialists who intended to destroy them – then yes.
But that is not what most people think of as planning.
“You have zero evidence to back that up.”
Reality – US GDP is 30T, China is 19T.
“In real economic terms Chinas economy is 33% larger than ours.”
ROFL – Those claims are bogus. Chinas standard of living would be FAR FAR higher if that were true.
It is not – it has not improved very much over the past decade.
I know this is hard for left wing nuts – but you should also test statistics against observable reality.
If you actually think China’s GDP/PPP is higher than the US – then you would see that in a doubling of Chinese standard of living in the past decade. But that has not happened. Chinese standard of living has barely moved in the past decade.
That is ONE means of falsifying that claim.
Another is that it would have a radical impact on Trade. The Chinese would be producing more and better goods – particularly luxury goods for domestic consumption and they would be buying more foreign goods – particularly luxury goods – they are not.
It also would be reflected in the price of Chinese goods in Trade.
I have personally witnessed declines in the prices of Chinese goods recently – I purchase lots of electronix supplies from China.
But go back more than 2 years and changes in the prices of Chinese goods in export tracked the prices of the same goods produced elsewhere.
The cost of living in China is low compared to most of the developed world. But it has actually RISEN over the past 50 years not Dropped.
“Their purchasing power is $40 trillion vs ours $30 trillion.” nope.
“China has a massive economic output”
Correct. But less than the US.
“BUT we have a much higher individual productivity per capita,”
Which obliterates your claim.
“We make our money form higher productivity from individuals,”
Correct.
“but the same individuals don’t see much gains from it because corporations are always grabbing the gains.”
False. Not just in the US but in every free market.
The Initiall beneficiaries of improved prodictivity are producers – businesses. The initial benefit goes about 1:2 to capital rather than labor
which is appropriate because it is invested capital more than labor that raised productivity.
The best example would be a robot manufacuturing plant – why is it that 100 people can produce what it took thousands before ?
It is not because those 100 people got 10-30 times better at their jobs – thought they do have better jobs that require more skill.
The cause of the productivity gain is the robots – capital invested. In reality the spilt shold be 1:9 not 1:2.
But labor gets more than its share of the benfits of investment.
But the profits do not last long. Wage increases are forever. Profits are not, ulitmately the benefits of productivity gains go to consumers not producers.
Take pretty much anything that you can buy today that you could buy something very close 20, 30, 50 years ago.
Take todays price and divide by todays average wage to figure out what the average number of worked hours it takes to purchase that..
Do the same for the same good produced 20, 30, 50 years ago.
It takes LESS average labor to buy pretty much EVERYTHING today that it did in the past.
Real prices ALWAYS go down in a free market.
Without Central banks nominal prices go down.
That CLEARLY means that the benefits of improved productivity ALWAYS eventually go to consumers.
I would further note that if that were not the case the economy would stop working.
The purpose of ALL production is consumption.
Rising standard of living – which hopefully you accept as real in the US,
literally means the ability to purchase MORE VALUE than you could in the past.
If your claim were true – that corporations capture all the gains from productivity – standard of living would not rise.
” they experience better benefits”
Nope. And obviously so.
“with lower housing costs”
Squishy.
In the US we have about 1200 sq ft per person average in housing.
In china it is about 300 sq ft.
Most US homes are air conditioned.
Most in China are not.
There are myriads of other differences between the US and China in housing
But the chinese pay less because they get less and they can not afford more.
“food”
That is actually cheaper.
“transportation”
Heavily subsidized and somewhat cheaper.
I have ridden passenger trains in China – they are not shit.
But US passenger trains are better.
Chinas internal freight system if CRAP compared to the US.
Frankly most of the world is CRAP compared tot he US frieght system
Tell me where in China you can buy something on the equivalent of Amazon and get it overnight for free shipping ?
China is doing increasingly better at delivering Consumer goods to US Markets – but not their own.
That is because they DESPARATELY want our money.
China has decent ocean harbors and ocean shipping – to support exports.
The price of Gas in China is about 3.78/gal – about 20% higher than the US.
The US has just less than 1 car per person.
China has 1 car per 5 people.
“healthcare”
They have cheaper healthcare – not better.
” better infrastructure”
ROFL
“quality of life”
ROFL
Please if you think the Quality of life in China is better – move.
In fact you would be Stupid not to.
“Our workers are working harder and longer and often with more than one job and see little out of it. They don’t have to work two or three jobs to barely make it”
The average Chinese work week is 49hours.
The average US hours worked is 34hours.
That is NOT work week for the job, that is the actual hours on average each person works.
No matter how many jobs they have.
Do you ever check anything before you post.
“Because there are more of them and they are more efficient. ”
As you wrote that it is wrong. I beleive you intended to say something else.
Regardless the average person in China is less productive than the US – you said that be fore – in fact MUCH less productive.
Americans on the whole are about 5 times more productive than the Chinese.
“China’s economy is more resilient than you think.”
Nope.
“Remember, they have more options when it comes to markets for their products than we do.”
ROFL
Where : Africa ?
South America ?
Europe has a 30% lower standard of living than the US.
They have quite literally told the Chinese NO!! When the Chinese asked them to buy more.
Lost sales to the US are LOST period. They can not be replaced.
Top countries the US exports to are Canada and Mexico.
total US exports make up less than 1% of our Economy.
Chinas exports to the US make up 4% of their economy.
John Say, China’s economy is more resilient than it seems. Many people predicted a slowdown in 2024 and that didn’t happen. Their high tech goods manufacturing and development carried their economic output and their “redirecting” of exports to other ASEAN member nations and Africa blunted any of the drops to exports to the U.S.
Nobody is saying China’s economy is perfect. Like any economy as big as theirs including ours there are always going to be issues. We have an AI bubble problem and a stagnating jobs market. Manufacturing in the U.S. is shrinking and we are still importing more than we are exporting. That is not good for us or Trump.
X again I am not looking to pi$$ on the Chinese only their government.
But you are just plain wrong about nearly everything you claim is a fact.
And mostly you are Crazy Wrong.
“China’s economy is more resilient than it seems.”
That depends on what you mean –
The economy is not going to totally collapse with millions starving – as it did under Mao.
Nor is it likely to continue smoothly
Economic problems result in political problems.
One major concern is the possibility that economic problems will cause Xi to do something really stupid and try to invade Tiawan.
China today – like the USSR is not truly one cohesive unified country.
It is likely to break up.
Or there will be a coup.
In China those are usually Opaque. Xi and those wedded to him are quietly arrested and a new crew takes their place.
Unfortunately there is no reason to expect the new crew will be better.
” Many people predicted a slowdown in 2024 and that didn’t happen.”
Are you sure ? China claims it did not happen – but they manipulate data.
But it is impossible to manipulate all data consistently.
There are strong indications that the Chinese economy did slow down.
China claim GDP rose by 5% by tax receipts declined.
“Their high tech goods manufacturing and development carried their economic output and their “redirecting” of exports to other ASEAN member nations and Africa blunted any of the drops to exports to the U.S.”
I have no idea what you are saying and I doubt you do either.
Most of Asia is politically and militarily united to contain China.
But Chinese businesses Are moving some or all production into neighboring countries to evade tarriffs. They have been doing that since Trumps first term. They have been able to do so surprisingly rapidly.
The reason for Trump imposing high tarriffs on other asian countries was to thwart that.
Further that is a dangerous tatic.
Most of Asia would be happy to see Chinese companies move to their nations, hire their people, and raise their GDP.
Further Many Chinese seek to move production to other asian countries as a way to avoid China’s restrictions on Capitol transfer.
One of the signs of economic problems in China is the Chinese restrictions on Capital transfers.
In theory China could challenge the US as the worlds reserve currency. But doing so requires that their currancy can move freely through the world.
China will never let that happen. The instant China removed restrictions on Capital flows – Several Trillion dollars would leave China instantly and their economy would collapse.
One of the reasons for the Chinese Housing Bubble and the less dramatic impact it has had than in the US is that the chinese have almost no place to invest their wealth. They put it into housing massively, China now has $16T in incomplete and unoccupied housing that likely never will be complete, but the chinese have little choice but to pay mortgages on homes that will never be fininshed – because they have nowhere else to invest their money.
When Business owners move factories to Vietnam, Thailand, etc to evade US tarriffs, those owners now have the ability to invest outside of China. While they can not move capital out of China in any significant way, What they make in Vietnam they can keep in Vietnam or transfer to AU or they US. Further they have some ability to funnel capital from China to the other asian country by moving assets or product.
Regardless what you claim was a hedge against US tarriffs works against the Chinese Government.
“Nobody is saying China’s economy is perfect.”
All Government meddling in Economies makes those economies more fragile – including in the US.
People are very upset about US healthcare – AGAIN.
Democrats have once again F#$Ked up Healthcare and as it is about to Crash and Burn told republicans they have to fix it.
Bad monetary and fiscal policy in the US caused the housing bubble.
The track record of Governments messing in the economy is horrendous.
China is no exception. We KNOW the Chinese govenrment has Massive amounts of debt from protracted Keynesian stimulus under Xi.
But we do not know the size of that debt – because China is opaque, because data is manipulated and because Chinese govenrment is more like the US under the articles of confederation – much of the debt is in the provinces or local governments where we can not see it.
I noted the Chinese restrictions on the movement of Capital. That is an enormous problem too.
They also have a major problem with Hong Kong. They failed to keep their promises regarding political freedom in Hong Kong and they have huge numbers of Very pissed people in Hong Kong. These people do NOT consider themselves part of the rest of China,
They also have an incredibly high standard of living – higher than the US. And they make up a significant part of China’s economy.
There is also an enormous underground disident movement in China. That is a major source of the information that manages to get out.
There are millions of Chinese unhappy with supression of their religions. Or in the case of the Uighurs actual genocide.
You seem to forget that at the tail end of Covid when Xi tried to reimbose draconian policies – there were massive riots in the streets.
In the US we think of the BLM protests And riots in 2020 – But the Hong Kong riots and the post Covid riots make those look miniscule.
“Like any economy as big as theirs including ours there are always going to be issues.”
The primary problem is Govenrment – big government makes economies fragile.
It is like water in a bathtub – left alone it is fine but start moving things under top down control and what looks good at first eventually causes disaster. Again see US housing bubble – or Chinese one. Or Medicare or PPACA or the mess we have made in Al US education.
And the larger the economy the more dangerous this is.
This is very much like the debates on Free speech on this board.
You need Freedom, you need people free to go in their own direction. Those who choose to go a different direction are a signal to the rest of us. Their failure tells us we are headed the right way, their success tells us to change.
The so called “populist” movements including MAGA and many populist and either alleged or real “far right” groups in Europe,
Brexit. The election of Milie the recent Chilean election are all signals that the people think the country is headed the wrong way.
The left in the US is trying to do the same thing to Trump/MAGA and if Trump actually screws up they will succeed.
You need diversity – ideolgoical, governmental, because it is how humans in nations, in economies send signals, respond to those signals and adapt to and correct mistakes – heavy handed top down systems ALWAYS get way to much wrong and can not adapt quickly.
This is what destroyed the USSR, it is What resulted in the economic freedom in China that produced their phenomenal growth, and it is what will destroy China like the USSR as heavy handed top down govenrment has returned.
It is also the source of ALL US problems.
The FACT that we have much greater freedom makes us much more resilient more able to shift directions – sometimes quickly if needed.
This also should be one of the lessons taken from the idiotic response to Covid.
Top Down does not work.
“We have an AI bubble problem ”
That is complex. I suspect that is a large short term AI stock valuation problem.
That will have negligable impact if it should burst. Did the Tech Bubble take the economy down ?
The damage caused by economic bubbles is directly proportionate to they type of bubble.
Stock Bubbles are inconsequential in and of themselves. Fro the most part only the wealthy lose money they can afford to lose.
If there is an AI bubble – Musk might lose 50% of his personal wealth. That will not effect him in the slightest
Conversely bubbles in assets held byy ordinary people – especially illiquid long term assets like houses are disasterous.
But I am not sure that the “AI bubble” will burst. Those predicting that AI will have an instant massive change on our lives and the economy are wrong. AI is more like smart phones. It will move into our lives and the economy gradulally. There will be an AI decade not an AI year.
Many of us will not notice as we move to more and more reliance on AI.
Further barring major advanced in Physics that may take decades there is a hard limit to AI capability and We have come close to reaching it. WE have LOTS of oportunity to take more and more and more advantage of AI – But “ChatGPT 8 or 9″ are not going to be orders of magnitude better than current. But we have not even come close to taking advantage of the AI capabiliies that are currently available to us.
AI has massive ability RIGHT NOW to dramatically increase our productivity – and that means raising our Standard of living.
One of the disturbing things today is that not just in AI but throughout the economy we have massive amounts of untapped capability for improving productivity, standard of living. quality of life – all WITHOUT new discoveries, further advances in science, or engineering.
There is enormous potential for improvement as a consequence of technology that is already available – sometimes even mature.
that is either stalled or proceeding way to slowly.
While we should ask Why that is so, potentially more importantly we must recognize that untapped potential is just sitting out their waiting for us to grab it. AI is one of those areas – it is in the news and people know about it, are exited or fearful, but it is highly visible.
Most of what I am talking about is not in the news, it is not as obviously disruptive of controversial, but it has the same huge potential for increasing productivity and standard of living as AI.
Further – what we need most with respect to all of this – is for Govenrment to stay a billion miles away.
Nothing chokes rising standard of living more than Government taking an interest.
Look arround at everything that has done well and impoved out lives in the past 50 years and eerything that has failed to significantly improve. Universally every improvement in productivity, standard of living has been close to ignored by govenrment. Everything govenrment has paid attention to has stagnated.
” stagnating jobs market.”
Nope – privat sector employement has been doing well under Trump.
Public sector employment has shrunk – 300K federal jobs are gone in 2025.
It should be far more, but that is a huge deal. Those people are moving to private secotr jobs where they contribute to the economy – that is massive.
We have had major problems wih job numbers over the past year – because Biden was “cooking the books.”
Over a million fake new jobs were removed from official statistics – in addition to the couple of times that hundreds of thousands were removed under Biden because the fraud in the numbers was exposed.
The result is the numbers for 2025 to SOME extent show corrections in reporting NOT the actual improvement in jobs.
Regardless GDP is up – 3%, Inflation is down 2.7% – not enough but headed int he right direction.
Wages are up 4.1% – and most of that is working class gains. Stocks are up 9-30% depending on the market – and the DJIA does NOT have an AI bubble – NasDaq might.
“Manufacturing in the U.S. is shrinking”
ROFL
GM just announced 30B in new production in the US. Further they have told suppliers to eliminate critical dependencies on forieng parts.
“we are still importing more than we are exporting. ”
Not ever going to change – that is actually a sign of a rising standard of living.
“That is not good for us or Trump.”
The big upcoming risks are NOT inflation, jobs, some AI bubble or pretty much anything you worry about.
The Big risks are the global economy – outside the US – We are doing fine, but a global recession will negatively impact the US.
War – even if there is no peace deal – and there will be one eventually the Russia Ukraine war is essentially a stalemate and it is not going to become a huge problem in the future. However we actually need a peace deal to stabilize the European economy. Europe is currently economically dependent on Expensive LNG from the US that is good for us, but bad for them, and makes energy costs too high and therefore manufarturing costs too high. That is a major threat to the EU economy.
The war is also disrupting global food. Not as badly as it was initially. but still it raises food costs globally and high food prices lead to political unrest in unstable poor countries – particularly in the mideast.
It is disrupting fertilizer globally – not just because Ukraine and Russia are major producers of fertilizer but because the ingrediants for munitions are also the ingredients for ferilizer.
China doing something stupid regarding Taiwan is a huge risk. That will have a massive global impact if they just make a small attempt.
An economic collapse in China would impact the global economy – much more than the collapse of the USSR.
Nor can all kind of natural disasters be ruled out – we are in a period of significantly increase volcanic and eatrhquake activity globally.
This is because of the point in centuries long solar cycles that we are in. It is entirely possible that all we see are minor events.
But very major and disruptive faults and volcanoes are more active than they have been in a long time and some of those could dirupt the world for a couple of years.
Our we could have another Katrina – a huge Cat 5 Huricane striking a horribly prepared part of the US with devastating impact.
That is highly unlikely – because the most likely places a Cat 5 can hit are well prepared.
Or we could get a repeat of Covid – again unlikely but not impossible.
“all skill is in vain if an angel pees down the barrel of your gun”
The threats to the US economy in 2026 are angels peeing down the barrel of our gun.
If nothing outside our control happens 2026 will be a boom year.
Agree 100%!! I’ve been saying this since 2005! “Capitalism” can only go so far and comes to a grinding trickle when an autocratic government doesn’t unleash individual innovation and the freedom that comes with a free market system. They only can “copy and paste” what others do. I’ve long said that the American corporations that were drunk with the promise of a Billion new middle class consumers will regret the day that they partnered with the CCP. I hope the lesson was learned by American companies, and that the “copy and paste” of our intellectual property comes to a halt (or at least is greatly reduced).
An autocratic system can only go so far under a government that tries to engineer phony growth and stifles the natural growth that arises with a free market system. China has even engineered “ghost cities” –built with no occupants but tumble weeds! And, now, FINALLY, many Americans balk at buying from China. I know that I do, as well as many of my friends. I research where products come from and refuse to be lured by China’s lower prices–whether it’s clothing, furniture, or anything else. I gladly pay slightly higher prices for “Made in America” or from countries friendly to us. I do not detest the Chinese people (they’re trapped)–I detest their government.
“X” ….. You should reserve your delusions for your Psychiatrist’s therapy sessions. You are a waste of SNAP benefits.
china exports poisons… fenatyl.
Many Americans are so depressed they would rather take poison.
China is in the early stages of a massive collapse. They have the fastest crashing demography in history. Mexican labor is now less expensive than Chinese labor. China is running out of young people. That one child policy really worked.
The US has dropped below replacement level and is lower than needed to maintain an expanding economy. If it were not for immigrants the population would have decreased. America is now terrorizing the people most likely to care for elderly Americans. Good plan. Great job.
X says Those that are hating on China do so because China is successful, a true competitor, and is doing things that we wish we could do
Yup, like slavery and slave labor. George loves slavery; normal Americans who aren’t X’s fellow communist Democrats loathe and despise it.,
China’s economy runs on Uyghur slave labour
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2025-05-29/chinas-economy-runs-on-uyghur-forced-labour
No reason to hate on the ChiComs for continuing slavery in the Confederate Democrat tradition of an economy built on slavery. X’s alter ego, George, just melts down at the thought of being able to still have black Americans as his personal Darkies.
China “is doing things that we [the Left] wish we could do . . .”
Like terrorizing and jailing Hong Kong citizens who criticize the communist government.
“New Chinese Carrier Fujian Sails Through the Taiwan Strait”
– USNI
__________
The U.S. Navy should “battle surface” a Virginia- or Seawolf-class platform immediately off its bow.
The Chinese Navy is completely inconsequential – including the Carriers.
In the Event of a war much of the Chinese navy would be sunk the first day.
Any that survived would only do so by staying very close to the continent where they could be protected by land based aircraft.
The core question regarding a conflict with China is not the fate of their navy, But Whether the US Carriers could survive the onslaught of a couple of thousand Chinese land based hypersonic weapons.
Presuming that our Carriers manage to survive the next issue would be logistics – Can the US provide a sustained supply to our naval forces in Asia with a massive stream of expensive high tech weaponry.
After that the question will be how long the American people support a conflict as losses mount.
There is very little doubt that the US can – if it wishes defeat China, but the cost in blood and treasure would be enormous.
This would NOT be the Same as the Invasion of Iraq.
The US will likely be able to have total control of the skies up to about 300km into mainland china.
But the casualties to do so will be enormous.
The Chinese learned from studying recent past US (and Israeili) conflicts and they do NOT follow the Soviet air power model that has been disasterouss in every encounter with US or US doctrine forces.
The Chinese have their own equivalents to Red Flag and top gun. Their training is significantly inferior to US pilots – but it is much better than Russians and probably any other country in the world. We will likely inflict casualties of 2:1 or 3:1 But that still will be LOTS of dead US airmen.
It will NOT be the like Iraq or Israels control of the Air in the mideast.
Separately a Conflict would be an economic disaster for China.
All of China’s exports would cease INSTANTLY.
Nearly everything exported to China is transported by Ship.
China does not have the ability to protect its shopping world wide even if the entire world did not immediately embargo good from China if it attempted to invade Taiwan.
The biggest reason that China is unlikely to invade Taiwan is economic.
In a conflict with the US – or even just one with Taiwn and Japan who has made it clear that an atack on Taiwan will be treated as an attack on the Japanese homeland – China would instantly have nearly all exports stopped. Its Economy would go into immediate depression.
China is NOT Russia – its economy has been existentially dependent on foreign trade for atleast 30 years.
The US population is tiny. Cut it in half again removing drug addicts, mentally deficient, traitors, cowards, sloppy and lazy, elderly, John.
John Say says: The biggest reason that China is unlikely to invade Taiwan is economic.
Well, that proclamation could be comforting isolationist libertarian dreams.
Foreign policy experts who have been watching the ChiComs for decades disagree. The ChiComs both cutting off our access to Taiwan’s computer chips and seizing control of the manufacture and distribution of those chips is all the economic reason they would need, even if they had no other reasons.
Taiwan is a 9 hour boat ride from the Chinese coast. They will have a tough time sneaking up on Taiwan.
How many hours is it from a US port?
They don’t need to worry about “sneak”. They only have to get there first.
“ The Chinese have their own equivalents to Red Flag and top gun. Their training is significantly inferior to US pilots – but it is much better than Russians and probably any other country in the world.”
John Say, you’re full of crap. You have no idea what their capabilities are or how they would fare in a conflict with us. Russia made the mistake of underestimating the Ukrainians and they are still suffering huge losses. Even with North Korean help.
The worst thing you can do is start making claims about Chinese military capability with the confidence only the ignorant are comfortable with.
Their navy is bigger currently at 395 ships vs 247 in the U.S. they are still building more sophisticated destroyers abc they are expanding their nuclear powered aircraft carriers. They are well positioned to defend themselves.
“…it was unlikely that China would ever be truly held accountable for its actions. Those failures include not only the alleged release of the virus from the Wuhan lab but also China’s concealment of the release until it had spread globally.'”
Imagine that.
A country that oppresses and controls its citizens,
a country that is historically careless with its gain-of-function labs,
a country that harvests organs,
a country that steals technology,
and
a country that imprisons and enslaves its Uyghur population,
having a serious issue with such tort as “reputational threat.”
China’s lack of moral judgment and resulting unaccountability is well beyond “civilized,” and is “reputationally aberrant!
Its’ strength without ethics–which is extremely dangerous to us. The Chinese must laugh at our ethics that curb our government from becoming like, well, China. Western values mean nothing to them as is evidenced by their cheating and reneging on every “agreement” they enter into.
A country with cultural cohesion that is ten times as old as that of the United States.
Replace Uyghur with Muslim and see if that doesn’t make a difference. What the Chinese are doing to the Uyghur people is what American conservatives want to be done to American Muslims; Uyghur being mainly Muslim.
China is financially and legally responsible for at least $100 trillion in damages suffered by 195 countries as a result of the 2019 China Flu.
Mother always said it is imperative to try new things
At this rate the professors logo will look something like “Grata ad Ananymous situs”
“Welcome to the Anonymous site.”
Brilliant! Simply brilliant. And eminently worthwhile.
Dear Prof Turley,
I have taught tarts for over 30 years. The Bat Lady of China, chief virologist @ Wuhan Institute of Virology, is no tart. .. it was always a stretch that a pangolin kissed a turtle.
As I understand it, Wuhan Institute of Virology was conducting ‘gain-of-function’ research on novel coronaviruses with funding from Dr. Fauci’s NIH and expertise from various American academic research organizations.
>”However, with millions dead and hundreds of billions expended, it was unlikely that China would ever be truly held accountable for its actions. ”
I understand Beijing is fervently denying the lawsuit originated in China.
Oh, and PS –
The graphic for this piece is too perfect. Thanks for the laugh.
The lab leak theory has been completely debunked, and more so it was not even possible for the lab leak to happen. Viruses do not magically move nine miles without infecting anyone land at the exact spot where animal to human transmission happens. In addition samples taken from the wet market confirm it started there.
If Mississippi wants to engage in stupid political suits, they need to be prepared for consequences.
@Anonymous
You are a ridiculous person.
James: yeah, and it’s certainly more than “nine miles” between defendant Missouri and….[Mississippi]! ( [sic] takes on new meaning under COVID.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/exdvt6/google_maps_moved_the_wuhan_institute_of_virology/?rdt=60979
The lab leak theory has been completely debunked, and more so it was not even possible for the lab leak to happen.
CIA admits COVID-19 most likely originated from Chinese lab leak
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cia-admits-covid-19-most-likely-originated-from-chinese-lab-leak/ar-AA1xRgA9
That pathetic Biden Birthing Boy lie yet again? This is why you squat to lay your deuces in the comment section and then run away to hide. Did you wipe your lips with toilet paper after defecating that Biden lie?
“The lab leak theory has been completely debunked”
you are an idiot. or on CCP payroll…still an idiot.
My God! The People’s Republic of China’s MSS and MPS monitor and post disinformation and propaganda on the Turley blog?
Who’da thunk it?
“The lab leak theory has been completely debunked…” is a story for all the fools who ignorantly bought into the entire crime,
from your HERO, Fauci’s, lies about the gain of function labs both in the U.S. and China, to the silly and ineffective mask and distancing rules, to the VAIDS produced by the injections, to the lies of the VAERS scandals, to the Biden Mandates that lost livelihoods for millions of Americans
….and you’re still buying the animal-to-human transmission lies—PANGOLIN and Bat soup! If you want to believe one lie, you will believe them all—no wonder this country is in so much trouble, with so many uneducated but inculcated leftists. The evolution you believe-in will catch up with you quick!
ATS
ROFL
No the lab leak has not been debunked – even under the Biden admin it was ultimately concluded that the Virus came from a lab leak.
Contra your claim – the early cases has ZERO connection to Wet markets.
Every effort to connect the Virus to the Wet markets has established that Covid did not appear at the Wet Markets until after it was already raging in Wuhan.
Further no direct precursor to Covid19 has EVER been found in nature.
It is near certain that Covid19’s natural source is the Bat Corona Virus RATG13 – but that is not found within several 100KM of Wuhan.
Humans have been infected by it – but afterwords it does NOT spread from Human to Human.
Further though it is the natural Source for Covid19 – there have likely been hundreds possibly thousands of mutation between RATG13 and Sars Cov-2. After 5 years of looking No intermediary between RATG13 and Covid19 has been found in nature.
Other potential Pandemics with natural origines such as MERS and prior SARS that did come from hosts in nature have been found in weeks or months. No natural host for anything close to Covid19 has ever been found.
At this point there is ZERO evidence Covid19 has a natural origin.
Next you claim that the arly outbreaks were distant from the labs – that is FALSE.
Several people from the Lab died in early Fall of 2019 of unknown but covid like Causes.
One of these is likely patient Zero – but that person has been cremated and there are no preserved samples.
The first cases of Covid that are not tied to the Lab all appear allong the subway and bus lines to the Lab.
The same lines that the suspected Patient Zero and Lab Colleges who likely got Covid from Patient Zero traveled on.
While the eraliest know cases are not in the immediate vacinity of the WIV – they are even farther away from the Wet Markets.
No the Lab Leak has not been completely Debunked – while not proven absolutely it is the only remaining theory that has NOT been debunked.
” Viruses do not magically move nine miles without infecting anyone land at the exact spot where animal to human transmission happens. ”
That is correct and that did not happen. China WHO and myriads of others have striven heroically to prove Covid came from the Wet Markets.
They have failed to do so – samples from the Wet Markets that have tested positive for Covid19 were all taken AFTER covid was widespread in Wuhan. Earlier samples do NOT test positive for Covid.
Covid did NOT come from the Wet Market.
You can search on line – you can find the actual studies, you can find the studies that linked covid to the Wet markets and the subsequent work that established those studies used samples that were after Covid was already widespread in Wuhan.
“In addition samples taken from the wet market confirm it started there.”
No they confirm that it eventually arrived at the Wet Markets – Covid eventually arrived everywhere in the world.
“If Mississippi wants to engage in stupid political suits, they need to be prepared for consequences.”
While the Mississippi lawsuit is a political stunt, the FACT is there are few remaining credible people in Virology that are clinging to the Wet Market claim.
I would further note – that if the Wet Market story was true, you would be able to find animals even today with viruses extremely close to the original Wuhan Covid 19 variant.
AGAIN absolutely nowhere in nature has ANYTHING between RATG13 and Sars-Cov-2 been found.
If Covid Came directed from Nature we should be able to find a dozen variants atleast between RATG13 and Covid.
I would also note that the “Furin Cleavage” on Covid 19 is itself found nowhere in nature. It is not present on RATG13.
It is critical it is associated with the Spike protein and it is the reason that Covid19 is so contagious to humans and the reason that it mutates in humans so rapidly. All viruses Mutate – but the rate of mutation of Covid is an order of magnitude faster than anything we have ever seen in nature.
Only dingbats are still arguing Covid came from nature.
The scientific literature says you are wrong.
John say was there. John Say worked in the Wuhan labs. John Say not only has the evidence, but refuses to disclose it. John Say would know that bat corona virus is over 96% identical to the one which causes SARS-CoV-2, but doesn’t want anyone else to know about it. So John Say types a page of garbage to hide the fact.
“SARS-CoV-2 is not unique in this regard and many other betacoronaviruses have an FCS [furin cleavage site] that is highly adaptable. Laboratory strains of HCoV-OC43 have point mutations in the FCS, presumably to also gain stability, and as the coronaviruses causing seasonal endemic infections are further explored, there are clear examples of genetic changes that structurally position the flexible FCS loop to better engage its furin activator. This is demonstrated in a genotype I virus with a four amino acid downstream insertion; whether this is truly a pathogenesis determinant or a transmission determinant remains to be seen. Recent work on HCoV-HKU1 has also shown the highly dynamic nature of the open-closed conformation of its spike, but in this case with its natural FCS removed for protein expression and the conformational changes regulated by sialoglycan binding.
The spike is adaptable and the FCS clearly makes a difference, but—in the end—it is no smoking gun.”
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(23)00144-1/fulltext
“many other betacoronaviruses have an FCS”
“many other betacoronaviruses have an FCS”
“many other betacoronaviruses have an FCS”
“many other betacoronaviruses have an FCS”
“many other betacoronaviruses have an FCS”
While you are way off base regarding the Origens of Covid – even that is irrelevant.
The fact that the Virus came from a lab leak mostly means we need to radically improve lab security procedures.
That is independent of the question of whether we should be engaged in Gain Of Function research.
Beyond that the more critical issue – and the issue of Chinese liability, is not dependent on the source.
Pateint Zero was likely in August or maybe September 2019.
China did not notify the WHO until Dec 31, 2019.
Sewage Samples from northern itally confirm that Covid has already arrived in Italy and significant numbers of people were already infected such that the virus was detectable in sewage y Dec. 18, 2019.
It is beleived that the first cases of Covid in Italy were in late October.
NIH testing of blod samples for Covid Antibodies found positive samples in 9 patients in 5 states by Jan 7 2020.
A CDC study found antibodies in Blood in the US in 9 different states by Dec, 19, 2019.
Anitbodies do not show up in blood until several days after infection further most of these samples were from “healthy” patients – meaning they either got covid and recovered or were exposed but successfully fought off covid.
It is likely that covid first arrived int he US in mid to late Nov 2019 – otherwise it would not have been found in 9 states in mid december.
What is the point of this ? Covid was already raging in Wuhan long before China told the world about it.
Video form surprisingly Al Jezera Journalists in Wuhan in Dec 2019 show that there were already thousands of Covid 19 patients in Wuhan in Mid December. Hospitals were already beyond capacity and chinese officials were already trying to stop Jorunalists from reporting on the epidemic in China.
Wuhan was not locked down until more than a month later.
Wherever Covid came from – China knew about it much earlier than the admitted and failed to tell the world about it or do anything beyond try to hide it, until it was way too late.
You can and we have stopped Virus’s like Covid before – but you MUST catch it very early. With each order of magnitude increase in the number of infected the difficulty in stoping the virus becomes exponentially greater.
The world has easily stopped highly contagius diseases where only a few people were infected.
The ebola outbreak in Africa in 2013 infected 1000’s of people – it was 70% fatal and highly contagious though only by contact with blood.
Travel restrictions and testing resulted in very very few cases in the rest of the world, and almost no transmission outside of Africa.
Even within Africa Ebola was confined to a few countries.
China was covering up the existance and spread of the virus while foreign countries at the very least still had the ability to contain it.
Ebola is also transmitted by sweat and tears. Get a grip, John. Very infectious by contact.
Covid does not require intimate contact and the US did not do what you think the Chinese should have done – worse the President told people to just go out and get into crowds, maximizing the spread. While the Chinese may have taken some time to figure out what the problem was, the US knew and Trump did nothing but fan the flames.
We don’t owe China a damn thing. Though certainly they didn’t act alone, and the U.N. etc. are absolutely in their pocket, China gets all of the credit for COVID. That alone would be enough, but it is one atrocity among thousands. Despicable and ridiculous, and almost certainly part and parcel of an ulterior motive. Tell them to **** off.
Not dissimilar to the responsible party in an accidental automobile collision, the responsible party pays recompense.
It’s amusing knowing nobody is really interested in Turley’s tort issue because so many comments are about other topics. Maybe he should have started with a critique or analysis of Trump’s important speech last night. Maybe it was too embarrassing to bring it up.
It’s amusing knowing nobody is really interested in Turley’s tort issue because so many comments are about other topics.
“X says:December 18, 2025 at 7:43 AM Speaking of pointless arguments. What was the point of Trump’s speech last night?”
X started his day with a post about Trump’s speech last night. When it comes to off-topic and non-sequitur postings, X allows nobody to challenge him as the king of initiating off-topic threads. X has no more credibility when engaged in projecting than he does with his body of daily lies.
Projection:
Channeling one’s actions onto others typically refers to the psychological concept of projection, where an emotionally disturbed individual unconsciously or deliberately attributes their own thoughts, feelings, and anti-social or criminal behaviors onto someone else.
This is an internal defense mechanism which allows that mentally ill person to avoid confronting their own behavior and guilt by seeing it instead as as the thoughts and actions of another person who they despise and hate.
I concur. It is as though they are avoiding a shock to their psyche. Often adjacent to narcissistic personalities.
Impossible for them to be wrong and they are compelled to convince themselves they are ‘better’ than others or ‘know best’ with no parallel in intelligence to support that belief. Emotional responses can supplant logic even in intelligent individuals so basically, they have no chance to avoid the response. It’s very interesting but I doubt X is TDS patient zero, just not significant or even an outstanding case, just typical.
Excellent diagnosis, Doctor! Perhaps X should be treated with 2021-hospital protocols for COVID, Ventilator and Remdesivir.
The myna bird is back. it talks and squawks, signfiying nothing.
Look on the bright side. .. it could have been worse.
*I thought Trump was going to announce the invasion of Venezuela to get U.S. oil and land back!
dgsnowden says:December 18, 2025 at 12:24 PM “Look on the bright side. .. it could have been worse.”
*dgsnowden is desperately hoping while day drinking cooking sherry that Trump, sooner or later, will at least start ONE war like Obama and Biden did, versus doing the opposite and stopping them. That would be orgasmic in his world!
* First. Criticism of Trump, the Peace President, is NOT the same thing as support for Biden or Obama. .. write that down for future reference.
Secondly, Venezuela is over 1,000km south of the Gulf of America .. . and, lastly, my orgasmic world is NOYB
dgsnowden says * First. Criticism of Trump, the Peace President, is NOT the same thing as support for Biden or Obama. .. write that down for future reference.
You need to have this tattooed backwards on your forehead so you can’t escape reading it if you ever brush your teeth in front of a mirror:
This is the wrong audience for telling random lies about Trump and then trying George/X’s excuse that these lies are merely honest criticism.
Try Rachael Maddow’s blog – the confirmation bias you will find there will make you feel like you’ve finally found your home.
*Second… your day drinking is not improving your random and rambling missives that are obsessed with Trump and promoting Karen level lies.
Start with accepting that public areas in courthouses are not ICE agents sitting trolling inside court rooms.
You are the propagator for distracting today’s thread.
No one cares about your trip to China.
Go to China now.
Even !TORT-Feasors may claim tortious acts against their interests, but such a plaintiff must prove not only the existence of actionable wrong, but also that damages have resulted therefrom—and this is not actually the case: one such proof of Chin’as cashing-on in their Pandemic PPE industry was astronomical. There was, and is, NO injury to China.
What’s it going to take for this nation to do what is necessary: cut all diplomatic, political, and economic ties with China?
I thought China President She was going to shutdown the “wet markets”
Do you have a fetish for Bats & Pangolins?
Mark your tickler: (will see)
January 13, 2026, for the deposition of President Clinton (Bill)
and January 14, 2026, for the deposition of Secretary Clinton (Hillary)
Comer warns contempt as Clintons face January dates for Epstein-probe depositions
House Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer is demanding the Clintons appear in January or face contempt
House Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer, R-Ky., is delaying Bill and Hillary Clinton’s depositions before Congress until January.
“Therefore, the Committee has chosen the date of January 13, 2026, for the deposition of President Clinton and January 14, 2026, for the deposition of Secretary Clinton. If your clients do not comply with these new dates, the Committee will move immediately to contempt proceedings,”
By: Elizabeth Elkind – Fox News ~ December 16, 2025
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/comer-warns-contempt-clintons-face-january-dates-epstein-probe-depositions
Comer calls on Clintons to appear for Epstein depositions or ‘face contempt’
Recent polling shows that more than half of Americans disapprove of the way the Trump administration has handled the controversy. The latest Reuters/Ipsos poll found that 70 percent of respondents believe the government is hiding info about Epstein’s connections.
By: Ashleigh Fields – THE HILL ~ 12/13/25 9:19
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5647425-comer-clintons-deposition-epstein-probe/
D.C. is repressing everything : Epstein-probe, Comey Incitements – Burn Bags, Brennen Incitements, Christopher Wray Incitements, Merrick Garland-probe, Arctic Jack-Frost, ……….
Nothing in Jack Smith’s deposition made me change my belief that this was political: Rep Jim Jordan
Rep. Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, discusses former special counsel Jack Smith’s first closed-door deposition as he defends his investigations into President Donald Trump under former President Biden on ‘Hannity.’
By: Sean Hannity – Fox News ~ December 17, 2025
https://www.foxnews.com/video/6386629492112
Democrats to block Senate nominations over Bondi’s ‘failure’ on Epstein files
Senate duo condemn Trump administration and say ‘there can be no business as usual until justice is delivered’
Two Democratic senators have announced that they will attempt to block any pending civilian nominations before the Senate in response to what they describe as the Trump administration’s “failure to provide a briefing to lawmakers” on the release of the files related to Jeffrey Epstein.
Senators Jeff Merkley of Oregon and Ben Ray Luján of New Mexico, who both sponsored the Epstein Files Transparency Act, said in a statement on Tuesday that “there can be no business as usual until justice is delivered for the victims of Jeffrey Epstein’s horrific crimes”. …
By: Anna Betts – The Guardian ~ Tue 16 Dec 2025
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/dec/16/democrats-epstein-files-pam-bondi
@In Addendum
Pure theater, pure diversionary tactic. I can almost guarantee you that Bill Richardson was thick as thieves with Epstein – New Mexican politicians are about as honest as the CCP.
It’s my home state, I am not talking out of my behind; that they recently reelected Tim Keller in Abq for a *third* time after how he’s broken that city beyond repair tells you all you need to know.
The Self-Fulfilling Swamp
First these two: Senators Jeff Merkley of Oregon and Ben Ray Luján of New Mexico sponsored the Epstein Files Transparency Act, then cock-blocked the A.G. Pam Bondi from getting the Assistant United States Attorneys (AUSAs) approved, by blocking any pending civilian nominations before the Senate. AUSAs need to pass musterwith the advice and consent of the Senate.
This is exactly what MTG stated in her resignation “… When the common American people finally realize and understand that the Political Industrial Complex of both parties is ripping this country apart, that not one elected leader like me is able to stop Washington’s machine from gradually destroying our country, … ”
Every Branch of the Government is repressing (this goes way beyond suppression) the Truth, of what is really going on and who is really in control of We the People of the United States.
[They have figured out how to block Prosecution by disqualifying/lockout all potential Deputy Attorney General(s). The likes of Lindsey Halligan’s unofficial appointment as deemed by the Judicial Branch ruling in Comey’s case is evidence. The Senate is not going to vet and approve them. The Powers To Be are not going to let the Truth be to God and seen in the Light. ]
A.I.: Attorney General assistant prosecutors approval method
The process for the approval of Attorney General assistant prosecutors, or Assistant United States Attorneys (AUSAs), involves nomination and confirmation at the highest levels and internal delegation and supervision at the operational level. The specific method depends on whether the position is a high-level appointed position or an assistant position within a US Attorney’s office, and if it is at the federal or state level.
Federal Level (United States Department of Justice)
Attorney General (AG): The AG is nominated by the President and must be confirmed by a majority vote of the U.S. Senate.
Assistant Attorneys General (AAGs): There are 11 AAGs who lead the various divisions (e.g., Criminal, Civil Rights, Tax). Like the AG, they are appointed by the President with the advice and consent of the Senate.
United States Attorneys (USAs): The chief federal law enforcement officers within their respective federal judicial districts, USAs are also appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate.
Assistant United States Attorneys (AUSAs): These are the federal prosecutors who handle the majority of day-to-day federal cases. They are generally hired and appointed by the local United States Attorney, operating under the guidance and supervision of the Attorney General. They are not subject to Senate confirmation.
For specific high-stakes actions, such as seeking the death penalty, initiating a prosecution for unlawful flight, or granting witness immunity, AUSAs must often obtain formal, written approval from an AAG or the Attorney General/Deputy Attorney General, as detailed in the US Department of Justice Manual.
Nothing precludes Epstain victims from suing. several have.
Nothing precludes them from gathering the same information that DOJ has in discovery and making it public.
Nor do I see how Justice is served purely by making information that ultimately is suggestive without being conclusive public.
If DOJ had something prosecutable – they would have prosecuted. Either Bush, Obama, Trump. Biden or Trump would have prosecuted.
That does not mean these women were not “victims” nor that they do not deserve justice.
Only that the DOJ does not have anything that is sufficient to prove anything.
Money. Not having money is the main reason for not making a civil case against billionaires. The ability for billionaires to buy delays from the courts means that the lack of money is immensely magnified. While the DOJ has essentially unlimited funds, it does not have unlimited time or people and so needs to go after soft, low value targets rather than those that take years to decades to fight.