This year, there has been a race to the bottom as Democratic politicians fuel the rage in our streets against Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officers. That continued this last week when Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz again rushed to judgment after a shooting, adding that the public should not treat Border Patrol or ICE officers as real “law enforcement” officers. However, rock bottom was finally reached by Arizona Attorney General Kris Mayes (D), who not only said that she does not consider ICE officers to be “real law enforcement,” but raised the possibility of citizens shooting them under state law.
First, the obvious. Mayes said, “I put [“officers”] in air quotes because I don’t think they are real law enforcement.” These are real law enforcement officers under federal law, enforcing federal law. Period. The effort by Walz, Mayes, and others to question their status or treat them as impostors is clearly designed to inflame citizens and encourage greater confrontations. It is a dangerous form of demagoguery. It is sending citizens into harm’s way, encouraging them to impede federal operations involving the arrest of criminal suspects.
Mayes later stated that she was “mischaracterized” and that “the idea that I would want the life of any member of law enforcement put in danger is wrong, offensive, and an outright lie.” Mayes’s “mischaracterizations” came at a time of growing unrest and the “Attorney General” rushed forward to add to the reckless rhetoric.
Again, repeating Walz’s talking points, she referred to these officers as “poorly trained.” She obviously has no idea about the training of these officers. The officer involved in the Alex Pretti shooting was an experienced officer with the Border Patrol. The officer involved in the prior Renée Good shooting was also an experienced officer.
While mischaracterizing the officers, figures like Walz are sending demonstrably “untrained” citizens into highly dangerous situations. Walz specifically called out citizens into the streets to record these operations, which is precisely what Pretti was trying to do before his fatal confrontation with officers.
Mayes, however, was not looking for a tie in that race to the bottom. She told citizens that Arizona’s “Stand Your Ground” law might be cited as grounds for the use of lethal force against officers. She declared:
“You have these masked, federal officers with very little identification — sometimes no identification — wearing plain clothes and masks and we have a ‘Stand Your Ground’ law that says if you reasonably believe your life is in danger and you’re in your house or in your car or on your property, that you can defend yourself with lethal force.”
She later added, “It’s a fact that we have a ‘Stand Your Ground’ law and, in other states, un-uniformed, masked people who can’t be identified as police officers.”
It was a reckless statement of the law. These laws only protect “reasonable” uses of self-defense. However, they have an express exemption for using force “to resist an arrest that the person knows or should know is being made by a peace officer or by a person acting in a peace officer’s presence and at his direction, whether the arrest is lawful or unlawful, unless the physical force used by the peace officer exceeds that allowed by law.”
It is not uncommon for law enforcement to use officers in plain clothes to make initial arrests or contacts with suspects who might flee or resist.
Mayes’s comments could encourage an already enraged and irrational segment of our population to use lethal force under the false pretense of standing their ground.
Attacks on these officers have increased exponentially with the violent rhetoric of these politicians. Just last week, a rioter bit off the finger of an officer.
Mayes also vowed to prosecute any ICE agent who violates state laws in these operations. She is also mimicking Walz in spreading legal disinformation. While federal officers do not have absolute immunity in all cases, it is extremely unlikely that state officials could successfully prosecute such cases without facing a transfer to federal court and likely dismissal.
Walz made the same misleading claim in saying that Minnesota would investigate the shooting and that the federal government would not be allowed to conduct the investigation. He has no authority to dictate who or how the shooting will be investigated.
While the state can conduct its own investigation, the federal government will investigate a shooting by a federal officer. Walz further pandered to the mob by raising the debunked “bait boy” story and telling citizens that ICE was “shooting them in the face when they come out of donut shops.”
Rage is hard to maintain for months and the Pretti shooting, as described by one Democratic operative according to Fox’s Chad Pergram, is a “new wild card” in the politics on the Hill over funding.
There remain legitimate questions about this shooting. The videotapes do not show, as suggested in early accounts from the federal government, that Pretti approached the officers brandishing a weapon.
Pretti does not obey the commands of the officers in returning to the middle of the road during their operation. However, he did not appear threatening until after the officer pushed him to the side of the road. At one point, he appears to shove the officer as he tries to assist a woman who was pushed to the ground.
What happens next is hard to determine. There is a video that suggests that an officer may have removed his weapon from its holster just before another officer yells “gun.” It is hard to see Pretti’s hands and we do not know what happened in that split second. We may get a better idea as new videotapes emerge.
Law enforcement officers do not expect blind deference on shootings. However, they have a right to expect a fair chance for an investigation to hear their side of a shooting — not a governor or a mayor rushing before cameras to effectively accuse them of murder.
At this point, it may not matter. Only the mob matters. Minneapolis Brian O’Hara explained: “even if there is an investigation that ultimately proves that at the time of the shooting it was legally justified, I don’t think that even matters at this point, because there just- there is so much outrage and concern around what is happening in the city.”
Walz has demonstrated politics of the lowest kind, stoking anger as citizens and officers alike are injured. Walz is pledging to go to court to stop further operations—a lawsuit that would be another frivolous filing. Previously, the state, including Attorney General Keith Ellison, filed to prevent the federal government from increasing forces to investigate fraud and immigration violations.
Walz, Maye, and others are following a long line of demagogues who sought to use social unrest to advance their political careers. For Walz, sending people into the streets has the benefit of not having them at home watching and reading about the growing fraud scandal in his state.
It is not a defense of democracy, but mobocracy in Minnesota.
Jonathan Turley is a law professor and the author of the forthcoming “Rage and the Republic: The Unfinished Story of the American Revolution,” which will be released on Feb. 3 as part of the celebration of the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence.
This column appeared on Fox.com
Has anyone thought to ask Walz and Frey why they are not out there protesting but have instead chosen to lead from behind?
Why didn’t Eisenhower personally take a gun and go up the beach at Normandy?
Oh, by the way. The New England Patriots are back in the Super Bowl. They’re back.
Idiotic Bob, if I may suggest, take your —- over to the ESPN blog.
Like I said, it’s easy to go through all these postings when you just skip by the ones from anonymous.
So you can’t assimilate that you are so egregiously far off topic that your comment should not appear here and should be on another site, that your post is simply boorish, or that this is not your personal topical playground?
Are you “independent” of a cognitive process in your cranial vault?
Sure thing Independant Bob, IF that’s your REAL name….
A tiny number of anarchists are not going to be dictating the enforcement of federal law, they’re going to be eating it.
“Pretti had every right to take his gun to” a volatile situation where MN goons are harassing and assaulting Federal law enforcement.
Which, of course, is a reckless, self-destructive choice. As he discovered, the hard way.
His solace in death is that for a few days, he’s a Leftist hero. For that self-destructive choice.
Nice movement you got there. Perhaps one rung up the ladder of hell from terrorists who use children as human shields.
Pretti’s gun never came out of the holster and the ICE goons who knocked him down, beat, kicked and killed him for trying to aid a woman they had shoved down didn’t even know he had a gun until after they murdered him. He had a concealed carry permit. So, stop lying.
What the —- was the dumba– woman doing there in the first place but causing trouble?
She wanted trouble, and she caused trouble.
The police, ICE, Border Patrol et al. are enforcing the laws passed by the Founders and legislators.
The law holds dominion.
That woman could have been home doing her national duty, increasing the American fertility rate, which has fallen in its “death spiral” to a non-replacement level of 1.6.
Adikheadanon
We’ve seen the videos, same game. They were both obstructing and blocking ICE agents. They were forcibly removed and Pretti resisted and engaged in an assault on the agents. As the tussle went to ground it was evidenced that he had a firearm. LEOs react because their lives depend upon it, whether it fell out or was observed where he could control, split second decision. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. It’s too bad, this guy got suckered in by Walz and Frye and their fraudulent BS.
Niether was obstructing any ICE agents. The ICE agents left their little gang that was beating someone to a pulp and went to assault Pretti and the woman. The ICE agents had no need to do that. The officer initially firing saw the other officer remove the gun from the holster. The problem with the “split second decision” excuse is that they have hundreds or thousands of hours to decide if they will simply start shooting or take more than a split second to understand the situation. All the other officers understood the situation – this one had already decided, possibly years ago, that shooting was the predetermined choice.
Both were ordered out of the street.
Failure to obey law enforcement is a crime – a minor one, but still a crime.
Prittzi then pushed an officer – that is assault.
You may not initiiate intentional contact with an LEO.
Situations like this are exactly why.
Officers are taught NOT to allow people to contact them – frequently they have their own weapons taken and very bad things happen.
That is also why they lean forward hard while pushing you away – so you can not reach their gun or other weapons.
The fact that so frequently people contacting LEOS take their weapons is why nearly all states make initiating contact with a LEO a SERIOUS felony – assault. I would further note that if you go being contact to striking the officer – what would be simple assault if you did it to me is Agrevated assault if you do it to a LEO. You will go to jail for DECADES for striking an officer.
NONE of this is ICE specific.
Be SMART – do not do stupid $hit.
An altercation with a police officer will ruin your life – if you survive.
If you can not bother to learn the law – then do the smart thing and stay far away from LEOs.
“The officer initially firing saw the other officer remove the gun from the holster. ”
So we have one left wing nut claiming one thing,
and another claiming something different.
Which of you is lying ?
I have seen the videos, It is NOT clear what happens with Prittzi’s gun.
Anyone claiming something specific must produce a source besides current video.
The police chief very carefully worded that statement: “We BELIEVE he is a lawful gun owner with a permit to carry.”
He’s a nurse working for the Veteran’s Administration – they have rules about not acting in a lawful manner and would have been fired if arrested for possession of a concealed gun without a permit. Unlike the Proud Boys and the like, nurses generally have considerable education and would know that and avoid that happening.
ICE agents “didn’t even know he had a gun . . .”
So did ICE take his gun away *before* the shooting (as the Left claims), or did ICE not know that he had a gun?
Pro tip: When peddling anarchist propaganda, pick a lane.
The facts are unclear.
The videos do not provide a clear answer regarding Prittzi’s gun.
There are many claims.
None are proveably correct.
“Pretti’s gun never came out of the holster”
Glad you know that.
Many left wing nuts reviewing the videos claim that one video clearly shows and ICE officer removing Prittzi’s gun and that he was not in possesion of it at the time of the shooting.
The officers at the shooting say Prittze went for the gun.
Some people are claiming the first shot was from Prittzi’s gun and some are claiming that was an accidental missfire that the cheap gun prittzi bought was prone to.
Personally I have watched all the videos and NOTHING is clear.
But I am glad that unlike all the other people who are sure what occured – YOU are the only one who is right.
“the ICE goons who knocked him down, beat, kicked”
Did not see any kicking.
Regardless he was being arrested.
Arrests are physical when you resist.
The woman was ordered to the sidewalk,
She did not comply, she was pushed towards the sidewalk
Prittzi stepped between the woman and the officer and shoved the officer – that is Assault – a crime.
He was then arrested.
Suicide by LEO
. Full stop
Idiots can’t face down federal law.
No one is above the law (heard that somewhere)
FAF0
Well that’s not entirely true. Look at Bill and Hilary.
That is normally a bluff in appearing to use deadly force, such as raising a gun. He didn’t He tried to help a woman to her feet after the woman was body checked into the concrete.
Sam, nothing, absolutely nothing makes taking a gun to a protest illegal. Not a damn thing. Not when it’s exactly what 2nd amendment supporters say all the time. Bovino keeps saying the brought a gun to the protest without mentioning the fact that it was not illegal.
The argument being made that he shouldn’t have brought it becasue the situation was volatile is nonsense. It makes a mockery of the 2nd amendment rignt to bear arms which is precisely why many fight hard for it. Pretti did nothing wrong and if his life were in danger even from a deranged ICE officer he had every right to be able to defend himself. Disarming him and then shooting him is not justified in any way or form. The NRA just put out a statement defending the right, and sort-of pushing back on DHS and ICE claims. If you can’t bring your firearm to a protests to protect yourself what is the point of having a 2nd amendment right?
DHS flooded MN with a bunch of poorly trained hotheads who believe anything they do is going to be protected under qualified immunity and federal supremacy clause to do literally anything they want. That is the very definition of tyranny. ICE is already telling its agents they can force their way into homes without a judicial warrant a direct violation for the 4th amendment. ICE is already ignoring people’s ID’s as proof of citizenship and stopping people on the street because they look foreign or speak with an accent. Trump’s administration won’t be forever and when Democrats do return to power there will be accountability, investigations, trials, charges, and looking into DHS hiring practices during Trump’s term. All of that will eventually happen and the tables will turn.
Pam Bondi is offering a deal to MN in exchange for voter rolls info ICE will leave MN. Really? Sounds like extortion, the same BS Trump loves to pull when he wants something. This is not going to end well for Republicans and it’s starting to show. It’s virtually guaranteed independents and the Hispanic vote has soured on the Republican Party. The midterms are going to be a blood bath for Republicans.
Xlax
You’re right…
Draw, boom. You lose.
That’s the result of bringing a firearm to a protest and I would bet that there is in fact a law restricting bringing a firearm into the commission of an illegal act, obstructing a federal officer performing their duty. Let’s ask Pretti, see what he says?!
He never drew his weapon. ICE disarmed him and then shot him. Bringing a firearm to a protest is not illegal. Any 2nd amendment supporters will attest to a that. What is interesting is not many are speaking up or are conflicted because it’s Trump and his administration that are trampling on the 2nd amendment and saying you shouldn’t bring your legal gun and exercise your free speech rights.
There is no law restricting a concealed weapon from any protest. None. DHS is bloviating about Pretti bringing a gun and a couple of magazines as if it were a crime when every 2nd amendment supporter knows that is not true.
“ICE disarmed him and then shot him.”
Your Comrades claim that ICE didn’t know he had a gun until *after* the shooting.
You all need to get your “narratives” straight.
“He never drew his weapon. ICE disarmed him and then shot him. ”
Multiple different claims as to what happened none confirmed and the video is NOT clear.
“Bringing a firearm to a protest is not illegal.”
Correct just stupid – which is why no J6r did.
” Any 2nd amendment supporters will attest to a that.”
And they will NOT do it all the same.
“What is interesting is not many are speaking up or are conflicted because it’s Trump and his administration that are trampling on the 2nd amendment and saying you shouldn’t bring your legal gun and exercise your free speech rights.”
Nope – thyey are just correctly saying it is stupid and dangerous and they are drawing inferences ast to Prittzi’s intentions.
I am not a proponent of mid reading – and that is what that is, But Trump does MANY things that democrats do – like Mind reading.
“There is no law restricting a concealed weapon from any protest. None. ”
Correct, still stupid
No J6er brought a firearm.
“DHS is bloviating about Pretti bringing a gun and a couple of magazines as if it were a crime ”
No they are claiming it is evidence of bad intentions.
“when every 2nd amendment supporter knows that is not true.”
Every 2A supporter know it is a right, they also know it is stupid.
I would separately note – it is perfectly legal to possess a gun.
But there are MANY crimes where if you ALSO posess a gun while committing the crime – the punishment is draconian.
The first amendment allows you to bring a gun to a protest.
But it does NOT preclude drawing inferences with a jury regarding your intentions.
Nor does it preclude a far steeper sentence if you commit a crime.
“He never drew his weapon”
You don’t know what happened, yet you claim certainty. That is the sign of a stupid person. What happened was terrible; a man died, and that reality should not be minimized. I regard that outcome as tragic, but it would not have happened absent the bad actors on the left. His ideology escalated the situation, conditioning him to respond in a way that steadily increased the risk of death until it became unavoidable. You will make hay over the death, but the truth is that the proximate drivers were the leftists moving the pawns, along with Walz and Frey.
Too bad we did not know about that law on J6. Then we could have legally mowed them all down.
Who are “we” and “them”? You MAGAS do not represent the majority of the American people.
No, that took place in DC where only criminals, police officers and politicians bodyguards are allowed to carry guns legally.
Too bad Anonymous/X hadn’t told us about that law before the Democrat Election Season Of Mostly Peaceful Rioting, Pillaging, Arson, Looting, Armed Occupation and Murder. Then we could have applied Policy 5.56 to the first couple of hundred Black Liars & Marxists and Antifa.
After that there wouldn’t have been the following 540 nationwide Democrat Riots Of Insurrection – and most of the Democrat apparatchiks here would have been among those who would have assumed room temperature at the time.
Any yet Rittenhouse remains a hero to the right. And those who occupied the Michigan capitol building in 2020.
Here’s a reminder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Michigan_State_Capitol_storming
“On April 30, 2020, right-wing protesters stormed the Michigan State Capitol in Lansing as part of larger nationwide protests against COVID-19 restrictions.”
Many were carrying semiautomatic AR-15 style rifles with magazines installed. Perhaps a Democrat governor will order snipers to kill the next bunch of armed right-wing protesters, even if they drop their guns and put their hands up.
“The gun-carrying protesters brandishing American flags began making their way off the grounds and towards the Capitol building. The crowd was filled with chants of “let us in,” with one protester complaining that “this is the people’s house, you cannot lock us out.”
It is legal in Michigan to carry firearms inside the statehouse, and several armed demonstrators made their way inside. Their temperatures were checked by police before allowing them through security. The protesters demanded entry into the floor of the Senate chamber, but were stopped by members of the Michigan State Police.
A group of protesters in camouflage clothing, carrying semi-automatic rifles, made their way to the gallery above the Senate chamber. They watched as members of the legislature did their work and gave angry speeches about those looking down on them. They yelled and attempted to harass the legislators.”
It was legal for Pretti to carry a concealed handgun.
Let’s say he had a right to have his weapon. That is irrelevant. The question is whether it was reasonable for the officer(s) who shot him to perceive a threat to their lives or the lives of others. His having a concealed weapon while resisting could have contributed to such a reasonable fear. Whether it did or not is the subject of the investigation.
Was the fear that the gun was held and aimed with his penis? His hands were out above his head and the shooter saw the gun being removed from the holster and carried off. No one observed him to be holding a gun.
Police sure saw Rittenhouse holding a gun. But that’s police, trained to observe what people are doing rather than ICE who are not trained and are given permission to ice anyone they want for any excuse they want.
X, Old Bi—, Valor Thief,
“It’s the [intent], stupid!”
– James Carville
“Sam, nothing, absolutely nothing makes taking a gun to a protest illegal. “
“If you can’t bring your firearm to a protests to protect yourself what is the point of having a 2nd amendment right?”
Does anyone want to listen to what GSX said during the J6 protests?
“Pam Bondi is offering a deal to MN in exchange for voter rolls info ICE will leave MN. Really? Sounds like extortion, “
Did you even read the letter? Nothing of that nature appears anywhere in it. Bondi is the AG, and Minnesota has a large criminal enclave that may extend to the Democrat leaders who knowingly permitted these illegalities to occur. This is not extortion; this is enforcement. That is exactly what AGs are empowered to do: investigate, compel compliance, and prosecute when violations are ignored.
“First, share all of Minnesota’s records on Medicaid and Food and Nutrition Service programs, including the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program data, with the federal government. Allowing the federal government to efficiently investigate fraud will save Minnesota taxpayers’ money and ensure that Minnesota’s welfare funds are being used to help those in need, not enrich fraudsters.
Second, repeal the sanctuary policies that have led to so much crime and violence in your state. Removing criminal illegal aliens from Minnesota neighborhoods will save lives, and state and local officials should support this goal. All detention facilities in your state should cooperate fully with ICE, honor immigration detainers, and permit ICE to interview detainees in custody to determine immigration status. I urge you to reach an agreement with ICE that allows them to remove illegal aliens in custody of Minnesota’s prisons and jails and avoids pushing these interactions into your streets.
Third, allow the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice to access voter rolls to confirm that Minnesota’s voter registration practices comply with federal law as authorized by the Civil Rights Act of 1960. Fulfilling this common sense request will better guarantee free and fair elections and boost confidence in the rule of law.”
The first demand is already being met.
The second demand is weird as crime and violence are not tied to any sanctuary policies. The part about immigration detainers is especially problematic as during the Trump 1.0 administration, ICE/CBP failed to collect people from detention and used local governments as an over-flow lot, saddling them with Federal responsibilities the Feds were unwilling to fund.
The third demand is supporting a lie that this is intended to boost confidence in the rule of law. Quite the contrary, this is flat earthers demanding that globes be removed from classrooms as prejudicial to alternative theories.
The third demand is also to get more precise data about which voters in Minnesota to target for enhanced examination and likely either falsification or planting of evidence to do mass felony convictions to remove the Democratic voters from the voting rolls. There is no evidence that the Minnesota voter registration practices don’t comply and, ironically, the Trump administration is calling for the abolition of the Civil Rights Act of 1960 on many fronts.
This is extortion on all levels.
She needs to get people focused on dealing with the 2 million records/documents of the Epstein files which the Trump administration is currently illegally failing to do.
Tiny bits of truth mixed with foulness. It’s funny, but that is what diarrhea is.
X says: Sam, nothing, absolutely nothing makes taking a gun to a protest illegal.
The Confederate Democrat constitutional law expert wants people to believe it is legal for Democrat felons to commit felonies – not protest – while armed with a dangerous or deadly weapon:
18 U.S.C. § 111(b); Ain’t nothing legal about a Democrat street thug committing multiple felonies while armed with a deadly or dangerous weapon.
This is a step up: at least X is now defending home grown Democrat violent felons. Much better than defending Biden’s criminal Illegal Alien child rapists and murderers.
“DHS flooded MN with a bunch of poorly trained hotheads . . .”
Suppose that’s true. There’s an obvious solution.
Flood MN with calm-headed, properly trained *local* and state police.
Oh, wait.
“Pam Bondi is offering a deal to MN in exchange for voter rolls info ICE will leave MN.”
Per usual, you’re lying about the content of Bondi’s letter.
“Sam, nothing, absolutely nothing makes taking a gun to a protest illegal. Not a damn thing. Not when it’s exactly what 2nd amendment supporters say all the time.”
Absolutely correct.
Completely stupid, but completely constitutional.
“Bovino keeps saying the brought a gun to the protest without mentioning the fact that it was not illegal.”
Bovino states a fact, He did NOT say it was illegal.
He HAS suggested that the gun and the multiple full clipps are an indication of an intent to kill alot of ICE officers.
That is speculation.
But there is massive speculation by the MSM and the left. Bovino is allowed to speculate too.
“The argument being made that he shouldn’t have brought it becasue the situation was volatile is nonsense.”
Correct – many things that are constitutional are also stupid.
” It makes a mockery of the 2nd amendment rignt to bear arms which is precisely why many fight hard for it.”
Nope. Likely 80% of J6ers owned guns – theyeasily going have brought 1000 AR-15’s
No J6er brought a gun.
One of the things that responsible Gun owners understand is that Stupid behavior like Prittzi’s could cost everyone their 2nd amendment rights.
“Pretti did nothing wrong”
He did a long list of things wrong – as in ILLEGAL
Bringing a gun was not illegal it was just stupid.
And yes Bovino is free to speculate about Prittzi’s intentions from FACTS.
“if his life were in danger even from a deranged ICE officer he had every right to be able to defend himself.”
Justifying the shooting of a LEO is just about the hardest thing to do legally
The most common instances where people succeed SOMETIMES, is when the police raid the wrong home in the middle of the night and you shoot one before they identify themselves.
Short of that shooting a LEO is likely nearly always going to be successfully prosecuted as murder.
” Disarming him and then shooting him is not justified in any way or form.”
It is still unclear exactly what happened – even you left wing nuts are saying completely different things.
REgardless, the most plausible scenarios are justified.
“The NRA just put out a statement defending the right, and sort-of pushing back on DHS and ICE claims. If you can’t bring your firearm to a protests to protect yourself what is the point of having a 2nd amendment right?”
The point of the 2nd amendment is to overthrow a lawless government that abuses our rights.
It is not to go to war with a government that is just enforcing laws that you can go through congress to change.
“DHS flooded MN with a bunch of poorly trained”
You idiots keep saying this as if saying it over and over will make it true.
The officer who shot Good had 10 years experience, the one who shot Pritti had 8 years experience and was a training officer.
In 2025 ICE operated under Biden’s budget, new hires were limted to replacing retirees.
Regardless most were LEOs – they had significant training before coming to ICE.
There are currently 6000 ICE officers – half are in MN.
They make 980,000 arrests/year.
There are 1M LEOs in the country – they make 7M arrests per year.
in 9months an ICE officer makes more arrests than most officers do in their entire carreer.
All ICE officers do is arrests. There are 21,000 other ICE employees who prepare warrants deportation orders track illegal aliens.
Whether you like it or not these guys are much MORE experienced than most other officers – particularly in making arrests.
It is what they do. It is all they do.
They are not however experiences in Crowd control. Until 2025 – they did not need to be.
Under Obama they made 480,000 arrests/year without any rioting or protests.
Left wing nuts have decided to bring crowds to every ICE arrest creating new problems for them.
Local police should be doing crowd control – that is their job. They did so in LA – even telling the courts that the NG was not needed.
In Minneapolis the MPD has not only been ordered to stand down – they are working with NGOs to track ICE and bring crowds to arrests – that actually is obstruction.
Regardless WAlz has finnally been FORCE to call in the NG
They have deployed to protect federal buildings.
It is likely they will be depolyed to protect ICE agents performing arrests.
So the Next Prittzi can shoot a NG trooper – like you did in DC.
The federal supremecy clause is in the constitution.
Regardless no one in their right mind would Trust MN to conduct an investigation after the mess you made of the Floyd Chauvin case.
Qualified immunity has nothing to do specificially with ICE. I would be happy to completely get rid of it.
It is irrelevant to this case regardless.
“to do literally anything they want.”
Like enforce US Title 8 Immigration law ?
“That is the very definition of tyranny.”
No enforcing the law is pretty much the opposite of tyranny.
“ICE is already telling its agents they can force their way into homes without a judicial warrant”
Correct – and that has ALWAYS been true.
An ICE warrent is sworn, it is signed off by an Article II judge.
A so called judicial warrant is sworn, it is signed off by an Article II magistrate.
There is no consequential difference.
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”
What part of the above is violated by an ICE warrant ? NONE.
There is zero difference between an ICE warrant and the MAL warrant – except that the FBI balked at the MAL warrant.
“a direct violation for the 4th amendment.”
Only if you can not read.
Regardless, 4th amendment search and seizure law is the most well developped constitutional law in the US.
There are many instances you do not need a warrant at all to conduct a search or seizure.
The DHS memo is nothing more than an effort to explain the requirements to enter a house and seize a person.
I would note that Seizing a person has the LEAST constitutional protections.
With a Warrant of ANY kind ICE can enter a home, they can arrest the person in the warrant, but they can not search the house beyond what is in plain sight.
“ICE is already ignoring people’s ID’s as proof of citizenship and stopping people on the street because they look foreign or speak with an accent. ”
I have no idea what you are talking about – and I doubt you do either.
While it is still common for LEOS to ask for ID during a terry stop – that is when they have reasonable suspicion to detain you.
I.E. you are NOT “free to go”.
Regardless of whether they ask for ID – today they nearly always go back to their cruiser and they run your name, address DOB and they can pull up your DL, and depending all kinds of other information. It appears that based on Biden’s CBP app that ICE is able to access finger prints and Facial ID information. So they can often ID a person in thir cruiser without a name or DOB or pretty mcuh anything else.
Regardless, criminals frequently have false ID. If ICE has reasonable suspicion that you are an illegal alien then can detain you and they can ID you without reference to a DL or anything like that.
I would further note – you must be brain dead if you are not aware that contrary to Federal Law states are issuing DL and CDLs to illegal aliens – CA in particular. There have been 100’s of fatal truck accidents involving illega drivers that do not speeak english, can not read signs and were illegally issued CDL’s
So NO ICE is not going to trust DL’s as proof of anything.
“Trump’s administration won’t be forever and when Democrats do return to power there will be accountability, investigations, trials, charges, and looking into DHS hiring practices during Trump’s term. All of that will eventually happen and the tables will turn.”
Absolutely – and PLEASE keep saying exactly that.
The Trump administration is ENFORCING US LAWS, it is FOLLOWING US LAWS,
Keep telling people that you are going to investigate them and prosecute them for lawful actions,
and that will enhcourage people to NEVER vote democrat again.
Many on th right are very frustrated by the LACK of prosecutions by the Trump administration.
The recent evidence that Frey is using MPD to track ICE and forwarding that infomation to NGO’s
if called Criminal obstruction. Yet so far no one has been prosecuted and few are being investigated.
Regardless there is ZERO doubt there is MASSIVE lawlessness in MN.
All that is not known is how deeply that lawlessness extends into govenrment.
Do you really think that most americans are upset that Trump is investigating Billions in Fraud ?
“Pam Bondi is offering a deal to MN in exchange for voter rolls info ICE will leave MN. Really? Sounds like extortion”
I have linked Bondi’s letter and you are AGAIN lying
She has asked for: Cooperation with ICE to arrest criminal illegals. Including but not limited to access to jails and prisons
as well as help with local records to locate those who are not currently in custody. She has demanded an END to sanctuary policies and laws.
And in return she will treat MN exactly like every other state that cooperates with ICE.
They will call off the surge, and leave ICE arrests in MN to the normal ICE staff in MN.
As to election information – MN is required by federal law that is decades old to provide it.
DOJ should not have to sue to get what MN is required to provide by law.
“This is not going to end well for Republicans and it’s starting to show. It’s virtually guaranteed independents and the Hispanic vote has soured on the Republican Party. The midterms are going to be a blood bath for Republicans.”
We will have to see.
The current polls are confusing.
Trump is up to 47% – that is the highest since October and higher than most of Obama or Biden.
Trump has been between 47 and 43 since August – there is no downward Trend.
It is likely if the election were held today that Trump would beat Harris possibly more than before.
Absolutely independents are not happy with the chaos associated with ICE raids in MN.
But it is hard to gauge what that means.
a very recent Harvard Harris poll has 80% of americans STILL wanting all criminal illegalss deported,
and 56% want ALL illegals deported.
What appears to be the case is that independents are buying left wing nut claims that ICE is reckless and incompetent.
They want a “better” ICE – they do NOT want ICE gone. The fact that they already have that better ICE just means they have bought some left wing nut lies.
CNN is polling Trump at +18 over democrats on the border and immigration.
+6 on the economy.
+2 on foreign relations.
+8 on the economy.
In fact there is not a single major issue that Trump is not + over democrats.
Other republicans are currently unpopular.
But democrats are HISTORICALLY unpopular.
Republicans have had the advantage nationwide – and espeically in Rust belt states in Voter registration for 15 years.
The Generic ballot is +4D – which would result in a SMALL majority of D’s in the house if the election were today.
2025 was a good year for D’s in elections overall. But there is ALOT of buyers remorse – because so many candidates promised they were moderates and are now progressives having been elected.
We have an enormous amount of chaos right now which really disturbs moderates – the party in power usually gets blamed for Chaos and Trump is extremeley chaotic and Democrats go WAY out of their way to amplify that.
It is likely that we have a peace deal in GAZA – that is not LOCKED but it is close and that will be a huge historic thing.
We are MOVING towards peace in Ukraine. It is likely we will have peace there before the mid terms.
Almost no matter what happenes with VZ it will be an imporvement over the past – and we MIGHT be slowly moving towards a real free market democratic country.
There appears to be a deal – a GOOD deal on Greenland – and that makes all you left wing nuts look like fools.
Europe is paying more and more of their own defense.
The US finnished 2025 with 3% Growth – after Biden left us headed into recession.
Predictions for 2026 are 4.3%-5.8% growth which is completely unheard of.
Inflation is inching down.
Iran is unsettling at the moment – it could turn into a mess for the US.
But we could see the end of the Ayatolah’s that would be MASSIVE – that would RADICALLY end terrorism in the mideast.
This also radically disempowers Russia and China. And seriously undermines Russia’s war efforts.
Russia purportedly is down to refurbing T62 tanks – that is 63 year old Tanks – pre-vietnam war.
Russia is running out of Armor.
I have said many times that Russia would likely win a war of attrition – but many things have changed and it is POSSIBLE the ballance has tipped in favor of Ukraine, Iran supplies 40% of Russian Munitions. Iran falling would crip[ple the russian war effort.
China is an absolute mess – few people are following it. But there are purges going on and unlike normal – top people may have been executed. Regardless Xi appears to be trying to tighten his grip on power which means he is losing it.
Anything could happen between now and the 2026 election and historically that favors democrats. But if HALF of the good things expected in the next 9 months occur – Democrats are in trouble.
Frankly – I am not convinced they are not in trouble already.
Too much of what you claim is “wishful thinking” – not reality.
Since you seem to like to make claims about how great things are in China
he is ONE source that will give you a different view.
I am not offering what he claims as Truth – finding the truth about China is trying to untie a gordian knot.
What is true is that Chinese data is garbage. And everyone is trying to GUESS what the truth is from other clues.
But there are LOTS of clues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44ehfGOvvJQ
And if you do not like this guy – there are lots of others.
Almost no one is claiming your – everything in China is great and they are going to surpass the US.
Those who shoot children are even lower. They aren’t shields if they don’t stop bullets.
Anyone care to speculate what a democrat a administration would be doing if these were protestors who showed up en mass supporting the presence of ICE and the deportation of illegal immigrants?
Pay 500 people and find out. I’m guessing the police chief would go into action as would the sheriff and Walz, pay a mob to go in and start a scuffle. Arrest Republicans, jail them and kill some.‐—————————–> J6 was protesting what they believed to be fraudulent votes. What happened: they were arrested and jailed and one homicide.
We have seen many protests of D administrations. Murder was not a reaction.
There are people showing up in support if ICE. Dozens of them.
Why aren’t Republicans concerned that a militarized force has been called on to do door-to-door searches for anyone who might be an immigrant and arresting them without verifying their immigration status?
One Report by local news from the Family of Mr. Pretti was that he was never known to carry his firearm. But he apparently carried the firearm on the day of his shooting. Why the sudden change in habit.
I have a concealed carry permit but have basically never carried my firearm. Why would I then pick up my firearm and go to a scene of an altercation where ICE officers are seeking to make apprehensions of illegal aliens. There is already conflict ongoing. Getting involved in that with a holstered firearm or one in your hand is the height of unsound thinking. What was he going to do with a firearm he supposedly never carried? Intervene in a police action. That carried a high risk of misinterpretation and getting shot. Just like driving a car at a federal agent.
I have not seen any of the film and am making no judgement on the rightness or wrongness of the results.
But intent is important and these actions suggest intent to use. From my point of view. Especially because of the sudden change in habit.
I would interpret this differently if he got up each day and carried his firearm on the way to work.
It does make a difference in assessing his intent.
GEB, same with me . I have a license to carry. Hardly ever do. In fact I’m thinking of getting a Byrne.
GEB and Ind Bob
One thing is for sure. Both Pretti and Good acted stupidly and they are now Pretti Good dead.
These lefty’s are working their tales off to so nobody focuses on all the fraud.
WHAT fraud? So says the pathologically lying Trump administration. If they have the necessary evidence, why is bottle Blondie trying to leverage ICE standing down in exchange for Minnesota’s Medicaid records and voter rolls?
She could get a court order if she could show probable cause, so her attempted leverage proves she doesn’t. The voter rolls are wanted by Trump to try to intimidate voters for the midterms and to try to gin up fake “proof” that Trump didn’t lose in 2020 and 2024.
“WHAT fraud?”
Apparently, Google is not your friend.
There are countless court records of those who have already been *convicted* of fraud — in MN.
. GEB, it isn’t free speech or assembly nor 1A. It has a name–> civil disobedience and is unlawful by its nature. There are conflicting reports. Pretti fired a round first. It’s unclear.
Preliminary private autopsy partial release by the Good family lawyer shows 3 rounds struck Renée Good, 1 in forearm, one in breast and one round through left temple exit right temple. The officer was stationary as Goods vehicle continued to travel so two rounds through side window one round through windshield. This is not official. She continued to travel after windshield round. Less than 1 second for the other rounds and windshield.
Wait for forensics but clearly she got herself shot through the head fatally via movement of vehicle. She was engaged in civil disobedience and expected either arrest or death.
Walz and his admin should be arrested for fomenting civil disobedience, a crime. Walz has deployed NG to protect ICE center. He’s getting the picture although his words remain croaks 🐸.
IMO
What you said proves that Good was murdered.
She legally brought her car to a protest. She then illegally interfered and operated her vehicle in a life threatening manner. She won the idiot martyr for the day prize. Her life so some mook from some third world shit hole could molest another child or rape another woman for an extra day.
If it was illegal then she should have been arrested and charge, not executed by a PTSD victim of his own stupidity. That is the second time the killer failed to stop a car. The first was by grabbing it and the second by killing a driver and allowing the car to careen out of control, endangering other agents, other citizens, and property – which it did damage to. Good job not managing to do the one thing he needed – for the car to stop. He’s an idiot – they knew the car, knew the driver, knew where she lived, had radios and access to judges for an arrest warrant. Instead they committed murder.
One report. No link. BS.
“I have a concealed carry permit but have basically never carried my firearm.”
Why did you get the permit?
Are you equally upset about Kyle Rittenhouse not getting shot in the back after being disarmed?
History is consistent on this point: when political leaders incite citizens to treat lawful authority as illegitimate, the outcome is predictable. Examples include:
– the French Revolution (1789–1794), where delegitimizing courts and officials led to mob justice.
– the Reign of Terror; Weimar Germany (1919–1933), where attacks on police and courts normalized street violence and paved the way for authoritarian rule.
– Reconstruction in the United States (1865–1877), where portraying federal officers as occupiers enabled vigilantism and the collapse of civil rights enforcement.
– Russia in 1917, where dismantling police legitimacy produced lawlessness followed by secret-police tyranny.
– U.S. urban riots of the 1960s, where broad delegitimization of police resulted in riots, militarized responses, and long-term community destruction.
– Rwanda in 1994, where officials reframed violence as self-defense and triggered mass civilian participation in genocide.
History repeats because human nature is constant, and when leaders exploit fear and anger, societies relearn the same lessons the hard way.
U forgot Jan 6.
No politician incited Jan 6, the fraud was glaringly obvious. Put your mask on and go get your booster.
Bottom line: January 6 was not trivial, but it was not revolutionary or existential either. On a scale of 1 to 10, it rates about a 3 or 4, a dangerous warning sign but one where institutions ultimately held and lawful authority prevailed.
By contrast, true historical breakdowns like the French Revolution, Weimar Germany, Russia in 1917, or Rwanda rate 9s and 10s, where legitimacy collapsed and violence became systemic.
The real danger is not January 6 itself, but normalizing the kind of incitement that moves societies up that scale.
Jan 6 was a half riot, nowhere near an armed and effective insurrection with the potential for success.
The other half was a tour conducted by Capitol Police.
Agreed. If there was anything organized or deliberately staged to create the appearance of an insurrection, history suggests it would not be grassroots conservatives.
Manufactured crises and provocations are a well-worn tactic of those seeking to consolidate power and delegitimize opponents. At minimum, the narrative was shaped aggressively to cast conservatives as the sole villains, regardless of contradictory evidence.
That deserves skepticism, not blind acceptance.
It was historically significant. It was an attempt to overturn an election’s results by force after all legal avenues were exhausted. Trump wanted it to happen and he let it happen.
What you are doing is repeating a verdict, not making an argument.
You assert “by force” without identifying a force capable of overturning anything. You assert intent without evidence. You collapse chaos into coordination and emotion into proof. That is not historical reasoning.
Real attempts to overturn governments involve command structures, control of institutions, and a mechanism to replace authority. None existed here.
Saying “it happened because I believe it did” is not analysis.
If standards are abandoned and conclusions come first, then words like “coup” and “insurrection” become tools of persuasion, not descriptions of reality. That is how objectivity dies.
Jan 6th wasn’t to overturn the government. It was to prevent the peaceful transfer of power based on free and fair elections by stopping the voting process and replacing it with sham paper. And it did stop the voting process. The Legislature that is supposed to perform that act was driven from the Capitol chamber where the process was to take place. The key item was getting the VP, who is the officiant, to also vacate the Capitol as a rout. He refused to leave, keeping the voting process in play – to the anger of Trump who lashed out at Pence for doing so.
This move was to perform an abortion on the voting rights of millions of Americans. through an illegal and unconstitutional means, one that was the last remaining chance Trump had to escape the will of the people.
The “history” in the 2020 election will always be that it was stolen by various means including the interdiction and blocking of news, which Zuckerberg admitted.
The entirety of the Hunter Biden laptop “controversy” and democrat horror story was kept from the public, etc.
Nope. The “history” of J6 will be a malignant narcissist who is a poor loser, who was predicted by every poll to lose because of the lousy job he did in botching the pandemic and destroying the booming economy he inherited, so he started lying about “winning in a landslide”. He got gullible people to believe they had to “fight like hell or they wouldn’t have a country anymore”, so they plotted to try to prevent the rightful winner from taking office— by pressuring Pence not to accept certified votes, pressuring secretaries of state to “find” votes Trump never received and making up lies about nonexistent fraud based on no evidence. He got the gullibles to attack the Capitol to try to get to the floor of the House and stop the certification. He got fake “electors” to falsify election records. He sat by over 3 hours watching Capitol Police being beaten up and his fans trashing the Capitol and only called them off when it became clear that Pence could not be persuaded to leave the Capitol. Trump still won’t stop lying about losing in 2020.
Boom! It was the most extensive fraudulent election machine ever conducted.
U hoped everybody forgot Jul 1 before that.
. Yes, people are like stationary targets in behaviors and easily manipulated as action reaction. It’s knowable.
Agreed. The predictability of human behavior is precisely what makes manipulation effective. When leaders know which emotions to trigger and what reactions will follow, the results are largely foreseeable.
This is all about Democrats insatiable hunger for power. Of note:
ICE releases Fiscal Year 2024 Annual Report
DECEMBER 19, 2024
ERO issued 149,764 immigration detainers for noncitizens with criminal histories — an increase of 19.5% from fiscal year 2023, when it issued 125,358 detainers. Detainers are critical public safety tools that ask federal, state and local law enforcement agencies to maintain custody of a noncitizen for up to 48 hours beyond the time they would otherwise be released. This allows ERO to arrest noncitizens in safe, custodial settings.
https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-releases-fiscal-year-2024-annual-report
In 2024 there was not a single protest, no anti-ICE activities, no AWFUL (Affluent White Female Urban Liberal) harpies or soy boys taunting, stalking and demonizing ICE.
Absolutely Estovir. It’s about power, not principle. ICE’s own FY 2024 report shows 149,764 criminal immigration detainers, a 19.5% increase over 2023. And yet there were no anti-ICE protests in 2024 while this enforcement was happening.
The outrage only appears when enforcement becomes politically inconvenient. That’s not humanitarian concern. It’s leverage.
” it’s about power” power to do what?
it’s about power” power to do what?
You were far more entertaining before you escaped the Democrat circus where the ringmaster had you perched on a stool clapping your flippers and barking on command while balancing a beach ball on your nose.
Sealioning:
Sealioning is a form of adolescent trolling where someone persistently demands answers to insincere questions to provoke a response, often pretending to seek a civil debate while actually trying to exhaust or frustrate others with no intention of real discourse. This behavior is characterized by a facade of politeness and a refusal to acknowledge previous answers. Often used as a tactic by whining Democrats in online forums and blogs
That was when ICE wore blue windbreakers and didn’t carry AR-15s and pepper-ball guns wearing camouflage uniforms and ski masks.
The Trump administration waits longer than 48 hours, using local facilities as overflow without paying the costs to do so.
Those arrested are let out on bond in keeping with whatever it is they are charged with. If they kill someone or rape someone the bond is usually set high enough that no one will meet that and they will stay locked up on the primary charge. Anyone else let out on bond is expected to be a sufficiently low risk that the court trusts they will return for trial and sentencing rather than default the bond.
The American Revolution? And your description of the end of Civil Rights enforcement during reconstruction had more to do with the removal of federal troops (Compromise of 1877) and the implementation of Posse Comitatus to prevent their return. The true end of Reconstruction was when the true vigilantes, the Klan and White Councils took control of the South and took control of local law enforcement.
Correct on the history, Enigma. The deeper lesson is that when lawful authority is rhetorically undermined and then withdrawn, power does not disappear. It transfers to whoever is most willing to use force. Reconstruction shows that clearly.
You pointed to “lawful authority.” How lawful is it to throw away the Fourth Amendment and replace it with an internal memo saying you can do what you like? When did “absolute immunity” extend to ICE and Border Patrol officers, some of whom had 47 days of training.
Thiis administration has been quick to label protesters as “domestic terrorists.” The federal government is purposefully terrorizing multiple American cities with Democratic leadership while ignoring others with higher crime (e.g. Mike Johnson’s District). Who knows what their after in Maine? The ICE masks seem to be serving the same purpose as the hoods of the Klan. Bovino is blatantly disobeying judicial orders. That is the exact opposite of lawful authority.
This is precisely the issue. You have abandoned legal categories and replaced them with emotional accumulation.
Alleged Fourth Amendment violations or misconduct by federal agents do not eliminate lawful authority. They describe potential abuses within a lawful system, which is why courts, statutes, and review still exist. Lawful authority is not defined by perfection or by whether you approve of enforcement tactics.
“Absolute immunity” for ICE or Border Patrol does not exist. That claim is false. Training length is not a legal argument either, and selective enforcement is not tyranny.
Discretion you dislike does not equal terror.
Comparing masked federal agents to the Klan is not analysis, it is historical illiteracy. The Klan operated outside the law to destroy it. Federal agents operate under law and judicial oversight, however imperfectly.
What you are offering is not reasoned argument but a stack of grievances arranged to justify a conclusion you decided on in advance.
If the government is unwilling to investigate and prosecute allegations, isn’t that permission to act unlawfully. I didn’t invent the “absolute immunity” claim, that was JD Vance. I’ve heard Pam Bondi and Tom Homan say there have been no violations of law by agents. I’ve seen differently. The length of training makes it most likely the agents don’t understand the law, they are more of a posse, given masks and guns to act as they will.
Failure to prosecute does not legalize misconduct. Political rhetoric is not law. Anecdote is not evidence. Incompetence does not negate lawful authority. You are replacing legal standards with outrage and calling it analysis.
You are not arguing from law, history, or evidence. You are arguing from distrust and outrage, then working backward to justify it. That is not reason. It is ideology.
Failure to investigate your own while investigating those who disagree with you is legalizing the misconduct on your side. Do you have an explanation for the $50,000 the FBI recorded Tom Homan receiving in a paper bag. You would know what to call it if he were your political enemy.
That claim illustrates the problem perfectly. You are asserting criminal misconduct without evidence, context, or even a citation, and then daring others to accept your conclusion as fact. That is not accountability. That is insinuation.
Investigations are not triggered by vibes or partisan symmetry. They are triggered by evidence. If there is substantiated proof of wrongdoing, investigate it. If there is not, waving around an unverified anecdote about a “paper bag” is rhetorical smear, not principled oversight.
This “you’d call it corruption if he were your enemy” argument is not a standard of justice. It is a confession that your standard is political, not factual.
Equal application of the law does not mean equal suspicion of all parties. It means equal reliance on evidence.
Until you have that, you are not exposing misconduct, you are manufacturing it.
I’m talking about your standard. There is allegedly evidence Tom Homan took $50,000 in a bag for agreeing to help people get federal contracts. That evidence is allegedly recorded by the FBI. In what universe would that not be a crime? The FBI, who conducted the operation, isn’t saying it didn’t happen, Homan isn’t saying it didn’t happen. I’m not manufacturing misconduct; you are ignoring it.
In the most incredible reading of the Second Amendment by Republicans in fifty years, possessing a legally registered gun is a rationale to be murdered.
I watched a Fox News commentator explain the video where the man was shot. What was clearly visible was the man being swarmed by agents, then a shot was fired, and everyone backed up and several more shots were fired. The Fox anaylst said, “for some reason, everyone backed off and then shots were fired. She wen’t on to surmise that maybe he had a gun or grabbed a weapon from an officer. Fox is working overtime to explain away what we could see and hear for ourselves. Even now, I won’t claim criminal misconduct in this case without more evidence. But I do know that claims by Stephen Miller, Kristi Noem, and Kash Patel are outright lies based on the evidence I do have.
My standard is evidence that is public, substantiated, and chargeable, not allegations held together by “allegedly” and unnamed recordings no one has seen. If the FBI has admissible evidence of a crime, prosecute it. If it closed the matter without charges, insinuation is not a substitute for proof.
Saying “in what universe would that not be a crime” is not a legal argument. Crimes are defined by statutes and evidence, not moral intuition or partisan symmetry.
On Minnesota, you finally concede the point you keep resisting: without a completed investigation, you will not claim criminal misconduct. That is the correct standard. You just refuse to apply it consistently.
Disbelieving officials is not the same thing as proving they lied. Evidence first. Conclusions second. That standard applies to everyone, including those you dislike.
The reason the information is not public is because the Trump DOJ shut down the investigation, just as they shut down several others while going after James Comey, Letitia James, and dozens of others for political reasons. I’ve now seen video proving a weapon was never brandished in Minnesota. Whether that proof is ever produced in a court of law is up to those who authorized the murder.
This isn’t bias anymore. It’s ideology. You’re operating inside a grievance framework where conclusions are fixed in advance and evidence is selected to serve them. Objectivity and due process are treated as obstacles, not standards.
At that point, further discussion is pointless. When ideology replaces reason, dialogue can’t proceed.
Ideology is at work here; you are apparently blinded to your own. I wish we could have had a reasonable discussion about what you saw in the recent Minnesota shooting but that’s area you won’t touch.
Enigma, stop talking and provide proof of a crime. Tom Holman was a private citizen at the time the alleged incident took place. …And it was 20 more years after a so-called racist incident before Trump was born, yet you called Trump a racist. When called out for this loony statement, you added, the acorn doesn’t fall far from the tree. Get your dates straight and stop planting acorns.
If there is no prosecution, there is no penalty for the illegal act and therefore the law might as well not exist on that matter.
You are failing to face facts that put your position in a bad light. I don’t blame you. What other justification could you have for murder?
The reason for the masks is the same as the reason for the hoods.
That’s a problem when one is supposed to be lawful.
Olly
Tell him why they took control Olly. Did it have something to do with yankee carpet baggers exploiting a lawless South run by Federalists and their corrupt politicians?
Whatever happened to the naturalization law of the American Founders, which stood as American law for 73 years?
What happened to secession?
Secession was prohibited because secession was not prohibited?
This criminal rendition of America was never to exist per the very people who created and established it.
Who are you, exactly?
What happened to secession? Secession was prohibited because secession was not prohibited?
Vapid pronouncements with nothing in the way of constitutional theorists who are in agreement are not an argument – nothing but a pronouncement.
There’s a reason the Confederate Democrats who now claim constitutional expertise NEVER put their complaints and constitutional theories before the Supreme Court BEFORE beginning their civil war of insurrection. Because they know SCOTUS would shoot it down, and then when they began their war when they didn’t get what they want, they would look worse than they already did.
After they lost that war, finally they went to SCOTUS like beggers with hat in hand, hoping that SCOTUS would agree with their constitutional theory and award them a consolation prize of taxpayer dollars.
Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1868)
Affirming the perpetual nature of American federalism, and that the USA is an indestructible union from which no state can unilaterally secede.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/74/700/
The Union of the States was confirmed and strengthened by the necessities of war, and received definite form and
character and sanction from the Articles of Confederation. By these, the Union was solemnly declared to “be
perpetual.” And, when these Articles of Confederation were found to be inadequate to the exigencies of the country,
the Constitution was ordained “to form a more perfect Union:. The Constitution, in all its provisions, looks to an
indestructible Union composed of indestructible States.
When those states became one of the United States, they entered into an indissoluble relationship. The union
between individual states and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union
between the original States.
There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of all the States
to amend the Constitution.
Remember, those “who took control of local law enforcement” after reconstruction were Democrats.
They were, no doubt. The Compromise of 1877 guaranteed that Republicans would turn their back. It really hasn’t mattered whether Sheriffs and Police chiefs were Democrats or Republicans, and now they’re mostly Republicans. The goal was suppression.
This is another sleight of hand. Party labels are being used to avoid confronting function and agency.
Yes, many of the officials who enforced suppression after Reconstruction were Democrats. That is a historical fact. The Compromise of 1877 explains federal withdrawal, not local choice. Republicans did not force Southern officials to terrorize their own citizens.
Saying “it hasn’t mattered” whether sheriffs or police chiefs were Democrats or Republicans erases responsibility in favor of abstraction. Suppression did not happen because of a vague “goal.” It happened because specific actors, aligned with a specific political movement at the time, chose to enforce it.
History does not improve when agency is blurred to preserve a narrative. If suppression is wrong, then those who carried it out must be named, not dissolved into a shapeless “system.”
Sleight of hand (poorly performed) is an enigmainblack specialty. He took a questionable incident occurring 20 years before Trump was even born and from that divined that Trump was a racist.
We all know enemaman is the racist Seth.
Exactly. This is Enigma’s standard move: take a questionable incident from decades before Trump was born and alchemize it into “proof” of racism. That isn’t reasoning. It’s intellectual fraud.
Suppression didn’t happen because of a vague goal. The goal was perfectly clear and had been demanded by Southerners (Democrats) since the end of the Civil War. I don’t mind blaming Democrats for the rise of the Klan but don’t pretend Republicans didn’t know what they were doing when they accepted victory in the 1876 election for allowing Democrats to do what they would to retake power and not only look away but promise federal troops wouldn’t return to protect those they just sacrificed. As long as we’re naming names, don’t pretend there hasn’t been a steady flow of the kind of Democrats one might have found in that era from 1948 when Truman integrated the military and federal government and kickstarted by the Southern Strategy used by both Bush’s, Nixon, Reagan, and Trump. I was only responding to you about Reconstruction and there is plenty of blame to go around so the Democrats can’t be singled out. I’m still right on the history.
No one is pretending Republicans were saints, and that straw man does not advance your case. The end of Reconstruction is not some murky moral fog. It has specific causes, specific actors, and specific outcomes. Federal withdrawal followed sustained Southern Democratic violence, intimidation, and the systematic capture of local institutions. That is not controversial history.
Invoking the “Southern Strategy” decades later does not retroactively absolve post–Civil War Democrats of their actions, nor does it convert political realignment into moral equivalence. Party labels shifted. Methods of power did not. The same tools were used: racial grievance, voter suppression, and coercion.
Saying “there is plenty of blame to go around” is not historical rigor. It is dilution. Responsibility can be shared without being equal, and outcomes still have primary drivers.
You are right that history is complex. You are wrong to treat complexity as an excuse to flatten causation or launder accountability.
I was with you until you said I claim the Southern Strategy absolves anything. Democrats do not deserve to be absolved, neither do the Southern Strategy Republicans. Democrats probably have a higher blood count, depending on what you measure. Black people once voted 97% Republican and that changed for a reason. Democrats don’t deserve their current level of support but the bar is so low when compared to the current Republicans. The lawlessness of ICE and the Border Patrol shouldn’t be excused. The justification of the most recent Minnesota killing by saying he “brandished a weapon,” or intended to “massacre ICE agents,” is backed up by no evidence. Can we agree upon that?
You keep starting in the middle and demanding agreement on conclusions that have not been established.
I never argued absolution, I argued causation. Shared blame is not the same as equal responsibility.
On Minnesota, we can agree on one thing only: there is an official claim and there is contested evidence, but no completed investigation or judicial finding. Declaring “lawlessness” before that is not accountability, it is pre-judgment.
Evidence first. Conclusions second. You keep reversing the order.
Authorizing people to ignore the Fourth Amendment is lawlessness.
“Black people once voted 97% Republican and that changed for a reason.”
Black voters never voted 97% for Republicans across the country, though Lincoln had a big impact, and most voted Republican. Early on nationwide numbers are unreliable because Democrats were supressing their vote. Today, the Democrats think they own the blacks, but that ownership may be eroding. Get your numbers straight
My, my! Look at all those Democrat Sheriff’s and Police Chiefs who are supposedly mostly Republicans in California, Illinois, New York, etc giving Democrats’ communist racist Black Nationalists, Black Panthers, Black Liars & Marxists a pass for their criminal activity. Doing so with the goal of suppressing their political and racist violence!
Southern Democrats became Republicans after Democrats in the North made the civil rights a focus.
Party membership is not immutable as evidenced by the lack of Republicans voting for President George Washington.
History often shows that when authority operates in unlawful ways that citizens respond.
The American Revolutionary war, for example.
There is only one question to be asked of any Democrat that opposes ICE — “Do you support Federal Law of catching ILLEGAL CRIMINALS and deporting them? If the answer of NO then we will continue to see an escalation of aggressive protesting when Governors use protesters as political diversions. Has no one asked the protestors what is the solution to criminals roaming their streets, causing death and harm to communities? Do they advocate any solutions that are constitutional? Are they willing to have sex offenders living next door to them? Are they willing to pay the prison costs for these people and then see them deported when they get released? Perhaps every registered Democrat should have a surcharge put on their taxes for “food and comfort of illegals”.
Most of all, do none of the protestors fully understand the they are waging their own often deadly ‘war’ against their fellow American citizens? These protests are run by agitators — including the Gov and Mayor who have an agenda far beyond these illegal criminals. ICE agents are being bated by the protestors and the protestors are bated by political groups that want a different America. Have we really have been dumbed down as a nation if one can’t see this?
I wish I could spend my time protesting some of my causes but unfortunately there is little time to do anything but work to support the family!
Former Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) and Rep. Thomas Massie (R-KY) went on the offensive Sunday and attacked FBI Director Kash Patel, who hours earlier defended the Border Patrol officers who killed Minnesota resident Alex Pretti.
Appearing on Fox Business earlier on Sunday, Patel criticized Pretti, who was legally carrying a concealed firearm before he was pepper-sprayed, beaten, and shot by Border Patrol officers.
“No one who wants to be peaceful shows up at a protest with a firearm that is loaded with two full magazines,” Patel said to Fox Business’s Maria Bartiromo. “That is not a peaceful protest!”
Massie, a staunch Libertarian, took issue with Patel’s grievances and argued that the FBI director had inadvertently come out against the 2nd Amendment.
“Can the FBI just enforce the law without adopting every leftist gun banner talking point?” Massie asked in a social media post on X on Sunday.
“Carrying a gun = bad intentions.
Loaded guns = bad guns.
Spare magazines = extra bad.
More than 10 rounds = bad.”
Massie was joined by Greene, who suggested Patel’s complaints were also counter to the 2nd Amendment, which enshrines every American’s right to bear arms.
“I agree,” Greene wrote in a social media post on X. “I support the 2nd amendment. Under all administrations.”
So an American citizen goes to an illegal and unconstitutional riot/protest with the clear intent to oppose police, and he carries a lethal weapon to enhance the opposition to police he is determined to conduct and demonstrate?
The perp intended to shoot someone and his adversary was the police.
Pretti had a Constitutional right to protest. He had a constitutional right to carry his weapon. He never took it out of the holster and never did anything to threaten the murderous thugs who pepper sprayed him, knocked him down and kicked him before murdering him. ICE only discovered he had the gun after they murdered him.
MAGA media latched onto the fact that Pretti had a gun, but the videos prove that he never got it out or threatened the ICE goons who killed him. This was murder.
I was discussing the only possibility for his intent.
You’ll suggest he was in downtown Minneapolis in its current situation to have an innocuous picnic with his girlfriend, during which he was going to propose.
The ICE shooter’s fate will depend on the testimony of his colleagues and his use of the Lt. Michael Byrd defense that justifies the shooting based on the enormity and significance of the threat.
Ahhhh !!!!
Now I understand your point.
Apparently ICE agents are permitted to execute people in the street, if in their estimation, an individual has an INTENT to do something illegal, even if they do not actually engage in such illegal activity.
Now INTENT, as determined by an ICE agent is sufficient grounds for execution.
So ICE is now empowered as judge, jury and executioner.
I guess that makes sense in the insanity of the MAGA cult.
Pretti had a Constitutional right to protest. He had a constitutional right to carry his weapon. There is no constitutional right that protects violent felonies as a chosen form of protest.
There is also no constitutional right to carry any dangerous or deadly weapon while engaged in violent felonies against any law enforcement officer engaged in carrying out lawful arrest of criminal Illegal Aliens.
No law enforcement officer engaged in fighting a violent criminal assaulting them who is aware that the assailant whose hands are free is carrying a sidearm, has to first allow that felon to unholster the weapon they are carrying before taking defensive action.
His clear intention was to make a video recording. Period. Full stop.
A concealed weapon is one that does not influence law enforcement in any way. They don’t know it is there and therefore it cannot cause them the slightest worry.
Had he intended to shoot someone he would have shot someone.
There are legal restrictions where and when you can concealed carry. You can’t carry in an establishment that serves alcohol for instance or into any business that explicitly prohibits. Before using it in self defense or defense of another, every avenue of deescalation must be made.
You don’t bring a gun with you to a protest and then interfere in a federal immigration arrest process, especially when tensions are high. The guy seems to have been a nice person, misguided but nice. Due to his stupidity and his own irresponsible actions he is now a dead nice misguided person. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Don’t be that stupid person dying on the behalf of a criminal illegal interloper.
Pretti didn’t “interfere” with the ICE murderers. He had a Constitutional right to be there and express his opposition to ICE’s abuse of citizens in his community. Trying to assist a woman who was shoved down is not “interfering” with law enforcement. ICE Barbie lied about Pretti threatening ICE agents and MAGA media is lying about Pretti doing something wrong for possessing a gun, even though he had a concealed carry permit. AND bottle Blondie is trying to leverage ICE standing down in exchange for access to Minnesota voting records, Medicaid and other records, all because Trump is trying to gin up lies about “winning” in Minnesota in 2020 and 2024 and wants to accuse Walz of committing “fraud”— all part of the retribution campaign.
Whether bottle Blondie is entitled to the records Trump wants is for a court to decide—she needs probable cause, which she doesn’t have or she wouldn’t be trying to leverage ICE standing down in exchange for records. Trump probably wants the voter registration records to try to rig the midterms because he knows Republicans are going to lose.
He was blocking the officers and so was the woman. Instead of following their directions they both continued and he escalated the situation that ultimately resulted in his death. Don’t play with guns, don’t obstruct, interfere or impede.
If you do, you could be arrested and/or shot if you’re stupid enough to bring a lethal weapon. Those officers are taking verbal and physical assault and abuse above and beyond. Do you suppose they want to go home at the end of the day? My friend was in Vietnam and said he shot anything that moved because he wasn’t going to die there.
Pretti did not block any officer. He was far out of their way and they didn’t like him exercising his First Amendement right to make a video recording from a safe distance.
I bet your friend was at My Lai.
“Pretti didn’t “interfere” with the ICE murderers.” Democrat street thugs claim that violently obstructing law enforcement officers enforcing federal law is covered by some Bill Of Rights amendment. Biden’s Bolshevik Tranny Boys claim he was merely a boy scout attempting to shove aside law enforcement so he could get a fallen Marxist granny back to her feet.
Meanwhile, federal officers keep tallying the billions of Illegal Alien fraud that veteran command sergeant Major and now Governor ‘Tampon Tim’ Walz allowed to continue as long as his political coffers were getting a cut.
Points eightball
Kyle Rittenhouse
Rittenhouse wasn’t concealed
It nearly cost Kyle his freedom and very easily could have been his life. A foolish thing for him to do also.
The foolish thing is for the violent felons to believe he wouldn’t actually shoot them if they violently assaulted him for being a white boy daring to be on the streets while Black Liars & Marxists and Antifa were burning the place down. FA… FO.
Rittenhouse had already shot two people, one he killed, when police said to him to move along, his hand on the grip and his finger alongside the trigger. Whether that was a “good” shoot or not, the police didn’t kill Rittenhouse. Pretti did not have a gun in his hand; ICE ensured he was unarmed and then shot him in the back.
I don’t read that in the Constitution, Einstein!
What, if you don’t like a law, you change it?
You’re a lot like “Crazy Abe” Lincoln, right?
________________________________________________
2nd Amendment
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
“ You don’t bring a gun with you to a protest and then interfere in a federal immigration arrest process, especially when tensions are high.”
There’s absolutely no law saying you can’t bring a legal concealed firearm to a protest. Zero. 2nd amendment supporters bring their weapons to protests all the time. All the time. Now we have the DHS, FBI saying they don’t care about the 2nd amendment. Everyone has a right to defend themselves, even against over-roided and hotheaded government agents intent on harming you with violent retaliation. It seems Bovino, Noem, and the rest of MAGA expect people to just take the abuse and be submissive but, when they are on the other end its’ all about self-defense and 2nd amendment rights. The hypocrisy is over the top. There will be an incident where an ICE agent will either be seriously hurt or killed as a result of the increased aggression against people.
Xlax
You can bring a gun if you’re stupid but once you engage in criminal behavior you are now an armed suspect. What do you call it when a robbery happens without a weapon….robbery, what do you call a robbery with a weapon, armed robbery. Now do you think that a law enforcement officer is going to believe that if you come to an immigration enforcement action in protest, disobey their orders and obstruct and assault while armed that you mean to use that weapon against them? You need to STFU before some other stupid activist reads your stupidity and gets themselves killed.
I think hell has just frozen over.
Much as it pains me, I agree with Marjorie Taylor Greene.
She defends Alex Pretti and denounces the shooting.
Here is what she said:
However, I unapologetically support the 2nd amendment.
Legally carrying a firearm is not the same as brandishing a firearm.
I support American’s 1st and 4th amendment rights.
There is nothing wrong with legally peacefully protesting and videoing.
MAGA, consider it like this.
We lost our minds when we watched Biden’s FBI track down and aggressively carry out home invasions and arrest on peaceful J6’ers who walked in the Capitol through open doors.
Imagine if one of our MAGA independent journalists or even just a MAGA supporter stood in the street outside a J6’ers house while Biden’s FBI carried out a law enforcement operation, home invasion, and arrest.
Then Biden’s FBI goes to the MAGA guy videoing it all and shoves a woman with him to the ground and sprays them with bear spray then throws the MAGA guy to the ground as MAGA guy was trying to help the woman off the ground. Then Biden’s FBI beats MAGA guy on the ground, disarms MAGA guy, and then shoots him dead.
What would have been our reaction?
Both sides need to take off their political blinders.
You are all being incited into civil war, yet none of it solves any of the real problems that we all face, and tragically people are dying.
We saw how Biden’s corrupt DOJ and Administrative State went hard after the J6 protesters.
We saw how they went after President Trump and wanted so badly to crucify him (and I don’t use that term lightly).
Now, we see how badly the Left wants us to start the next civil war.
On the one hand, yeah, I want to give it to them.
On the other, I’m an old man with brains, but I don’t waste ammunition with misses.
Who would win?
We are not the murderers and would fight with restraint, if at all.
We have seen how well the Left restrain themselves.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, they are not smart people.
If Marorie Taylor Greene wants to claim you have a constitutional right to engage in violent criminal acts towards law enforcement carrying out their duties while armed with ANY dangerous or deadly weapon, then she’s going to be the new meat and potatoes of the false flag Democrats rushing to claim they actually support the 2nd Amendment.
This is the same as Illegal Aliens being called “undocumented immigrants”. Now the crimes of violent obstruction and assault similarly become “protest”.
When you lay hands on law enforcement while carrying a gun… the likely consequences aren’t going to be that officer saying “Nah, there’s no way he would pull that gun and be dumping a mag into me before I can react”.
“We lost our minds when we watched Biden’s FBI track down and aggressively carry out home invasions and arrest on peaceful J6’ers who walked in the Capitol through open doors.”
Across thresholds covered in broken glass? It’s not a home invasion if there is a judicial arrest warrant.
THE LIEUTENANT MICHAEL BYRD DEFENSE
The ICE officer who shot Alex Pretti will employ the Lieutenant Michael Byrd defense.
Byrd justified shooting an unarmed female in the neck, killing her instantly, by claiming that slight, 115-pound young lady immediately threatened the lives of 435 members of Congress.
Michael Byrd neutralized a serious and substantial threat by killing an agitated and unarmed female.
There a great article by Conservative Steven Greenhut titled “Where have the ‘Don’t Tread on Me’ Republicans gone?”
This free online article was not published by a liberal news outlet, it’s published in the conservative “Reason Magazine” online.
Really: dem machinations aside – I do not want to hear it from any of these supposed ‘kind hearted’ liberals who have never lived in a border state (FYI, I have spent most of my life in border states), let alone anyone overseas whose American news ranges from CNN all the way to CNN. Cartel connections are one thing, and a bad thing, but the drunk driving, the spousal and child abuse, theft, and common violence are enough all on their own, and they are, and have been *rampant*. And it all goes so very much deeper.
This is all madness, and the dems are beyond redemption. Though I think the radicals are a cornered animal that will only get worse, any fool of a ‘normal’ dem voter that thinks any of this is fiction is privileged, indeed. Stop pretending there is anything resembling sanity remaining on for the modern left. They honestly do not care who they hurt, and their voters are braindead sheep.
Citizenry arming to defend Foreign Criminal Invaders hidden within the community by Democrat Sanctuary policies and Incited by Democratic Party leaders and officials are obstructionist and Insurrectionists
One surprise and bright spot in all of this:
In 2026 we have Neo-Confederates supporting a New York yankee as president and Democrats now support the 9th & 10th Amendments (states’ rights). Now that’s progress;)
Lots of good comments on this thorny topic. I have one add to Johnathan’s thoughts about Arizona Attorney General Kris Mayes. ICE is after illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants do not have the right to keep or bear arms. By what authority does she repeal the law by advocating illegal aliens can statutorily stand their ground with arms against anybody, including ICE?
I’m in AZ. Mayes needs to be RECALLED.
I was in AZ a few years back and it looked like a war zone with buildings blown up and destroyed. That State is barely hanging in. Nick Shirley should pay a visit if he dares.
Don’t know what alternate reality version of Arizona you visited, but the real Arizona doesn’t look like a “war zone with buildings blown up and destroyed”. Just simply not true. The state is suffering with leftist fools like Mayes running things, but what you describe exists only in your head.
You can’t vote the communists out because the intended restrictions on the vote that the Founders placed in the Constitution have been obviated by them, and they have illegally imported more and more democrat voters, all based on the promise of ever-increasing “free stuff” and “free status.”
Communists know one thing—how to cheat.
If Americans want their country back, they are going to have to quite simply take it.
Mayze needs to be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail.
Why would any legitimate federal agency not share evidence with state investigators? One could argue Minnesota has lead jurisdiction in this case.
If ICE officials are on solid legal ground, why is the federal DOJ obstructing justice?
The only answer that makes sense is that nobody is talking about Pam Bondi refusing to follow the law releasing the Epstein files.
Pure gibberish.
Superior!
“Why would any legitimate federal agency not share evidence with state investigators?” Why would those state investigators be considered legitimate after they’ve established a record of obstructing those federal agencies attempting to arrest and deport criminal Illegal Aliens?
Why should that federal agency consider that state agency’s officers legitimate when they refuse to enforce state laws by arresting their violent residents who are obstructing and assaulting federal officers.
Why do they believe they’re on solid ground by first obstructing law enforcement, then refusing to enforce state laws to serve and protect fellow officers as well as their fellow citizens?
The only thing that makes sense is to deflect from the criminal corruption of Walz and other Democrats involved in The Somali Files and The J6 Files.
JT says…”… race to the bottom as Democratic politicians fuel the rage in our streets against Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officers.”
BS
It is ICE waging war against citizens.
History will treat trump supporters very badly
Anon: Are you blind, deaf, dumb, or all three? ICE is hunting down criminal illegal aliens, not American citizens. Name one American citizen that ICE has tried to deport.
ICE doesn’t deport American citizens. They kill them.
They have however “detained” American citizens because they “look” Mexican, often in areas that -were- Mexican for a century or more before they became American. They also detain Native Americans because Native Americans are also brown. They are looking for targets that won’t shoot back, so not the criminal illegal aliens, but those with a paper trail that makes them easy to find.
Yes. Obama started it all by detaining an American for 3 years. Trump hasn’t done that so realistically, it was Obama who was waging war against citizens all along….
https://www.latimes.com/archives/story/2018-04-27/ice-held-an-american-man-in-custody-for-1273-days
I have changed my mind. Pull ICE out of MN (keep the DOJ and the IRS there investigating the fraud), start transferring al captured illegals from around the nation there, cease funding assistance and heavily publicize any and all crimes committed by illegal immigrants.
Why should we pay to keep illegals in FL, TX, TN, NC, WY, MO and other red states. Close Alligator Alcatraz, close detention centers and charge any illegal committing a crime in a non-MN state with heavier penalties. Force a million illegals to head to MN. In fact give illegals a choice, home country or MN. Make MN illegal again.
I am only half tongue in cheek here.
HullBobby,
I have had similar thoughts.
However, then the leftists can declare victory. But if that victory devolves into a CHAZ/CHOP like situation, could be a good thing.
BULL HOBBY
Enforce the law.
“The 2nd amendment is not for hunting, it is not for self protection,” the podcaster wrote in 2018. “It is there to ensure that free people can defend themselves if god forbid government became tyrannical and turned against its citizens.”
Charlie Kirk
“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
– Declaration of Independence, 1776
$38 Trillion Dollars ago…
Why did Bill and Hillary haul ass? Where’s the Chocolate Jesus Divider in Chief been, haven’t heard much out of his cock holster (I stole that from the Dems) lately!
“It is there to ensure that free people can defend themselves if god forbid government became tyrannical and turned against its citizens.”
– Great American Charlie Kirk
_________________________________
And that is precisely what “Crazy Abe” Lincoln did illicitly and unconstitutionally to impose by military force his wholly unconstitutional “Reign of Terror.”
Secession was not prohibited and was fully constitutional, habeas corpus was unconstitutionally imposed, etc.
Sic Semper Tyrannis!
________________________
“If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.”
– Abraham Lincoln, Lyceum Address, Springfield, Illinois, January 27, 1838
________________________________________________________________________________
And he was — Author and Finisher.
Death to a tyrant, and so there was.
Secession was not prohibited and was fully constitutional, habeas corpus was unconstitutionally imposed, etc.
There’s a reason that Mad King George, the Confederate Kluxxer never mentioned that his racist Confederate Democrat ancestors never brought their theories on secession before SCOTUS – just as they had a few years earlier claimed a constitutional right to own slaves?
The reason they skipped the Supreme Court the second time despite winning Dred Scott, is they knew their Confederate KLuxxer theories on succession would have been crushed by SCOTUS. So they went straight to starting their Confederate Civil War Insurrection.
After losing their war, THEN they went to SCOTUS to plead their case as beggars, hoping their theories on succession would be accepted and they would be awarded millions in taxpayer dollars. The same result they knew they would get from SCOTUS if they had gone there before starting their war.
Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1868)
Affirming the perpetual nature of American federalism, and that the USA is an indestructible union from which no state can
unilaterally secede.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/74/700/
The Union of the States was confirmed and strengthened by the necessities of war, and received definite form and
character and sanction from the Articles of Confederation. By these, the Union was solemnly declared to “be
perpetual.” And, when these Articles of Confederation were found to be inadequate to the exigencies of the country,
the Constitution was ordained “to form a more perfect Union:. The Constitution, in all its provisions, looks to an
indestructible Union composed of indestructible States.
When those states became one of the United States, they entered into an indissoluble relationship. The union
between individual states and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union
between the original States.
There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of all the States
to amend the Constitution.