Some of us in the free speech community have been writing about the hypocrisy of many in the media and academia suddenly championing free speech values after years of silence (or support) over censorship of conservatives, libertarians, and contrarians. A good example can be found in the Chicago area, where a physical education teacher is on administrative leave and faces possible termination after posting two words (“Go ICE”) on Facebook in support of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). Local leaders and groups are demanding that he be fired, even though a posting opposing ICE would likely have been heralded rather than condemned.
Social media exploded with commentators calling the teacher a “f****** piece of s***.” A flyer demanded termination because any expression of support for ICE is “inappropriate and unsuitable for an educator.” The flyer insisted that “keeping this teacher will disrupt the emotional welfare and therefore, the education of our students.”
Local Democratic leaders immediately joined the mob. That includes Karina Villa, who posted a message saying she stands in “unwavering solidarity” with those demanding action given the “disturbing comments reportedly made by an educator.”
As is often the case, Villa did the perfunctory nod toward the right to free speech before joining the effort to gut it. She acknowledged the right, but noted that “as educators we have the responsibility to our students and their families to create a safe and welcoming environment for all.”
According to the district’s superintendent, Kristina Davis, the unnamed teacher submitted a resignation on Friday but then withdrew that resignation before the board could approve it. She then suspended the teacher pending an investigation.
That “investigation” concerns the posting of two words in favor of law enforcement outside the school on a personal social media account.
In the meantime, Mayor Daniel Bovey and the city council of West Chicago held a “listening session” on Monday to address the trauma of having a teacher who openly supports ICE. The District also addressed what it called the “disruption for students, families, and staff” and assured families that “our schools are safe spaces.”
Once again, the teacher simply wrote “Go Ice” on a personal social media account.
Notably, the nearby Chicago Teachers’ Union is one of the most radical and politically active in the country. Members have publicly voiced support for the Venezuelan regime and have engaged in violent public declarations against the Administration.
Algorithms Used To Hire ICE Had Error Rate
As Immigration and Customs Enforcement was racing to add 10,000 new officers to its force, an artificial intelligence error in how their applications were processed sent many new recruits into field offices without proper training, according to two law enforcement officials familiar with the error.
The AI tool used by ICE was tasked with looking for potential applicants with law enforcement experience to be placed into the agency’s “LEO program” — short for law enforcement officer — for new recruits who are already law enforcement officers. It requires four weeks of online training.
Applicants without law enforcement backgrounds are required to take an eight-week in-person course at ICE’s academy at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Georgia, which includes courses in immigration law and handling a gun, as well as physical fitness tests.
“They were using AI to scan résumés and found out a bunch of the people who were LEOs weren’t LEOs,” one of the officials said.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/ice-error-meant-recruits-sent-field-offices-proper-training-sources-sa-rcna254054
ICE assures they tracked down all the recruits with no LEO experience and routed them to boot camp. But this certainly calls into question the reliability of algorithms with regards to hiring. It also affirms that old saying, ‘Haste makes waste’.
“But this certainly calls into question the reliability of algorithms with regards to hiring.”
Why ?
I have hired people in the past and I take applicatiosn to rent apartments.
I have not as of this time used AI to prefiltter them – but sounds like a good idea to me.
I am not going to hire somebody or rent to somebody just because AI does not filter them out.
But instead of having to read 100 resumes for each job I have or 30 applications for each apartment, I only have to check the few that got passed AI.
Further if I uses AI it is much harder to get sued by left wing nuts for discrimination.
I was previously sued by a black couple who applied to rent an apartment were approved and then went to the HRC and claimed I discriminated against them. Fortunately I had the records to demonstrate that I had offered them a lease if they wanted it, and HRC smiled and dismissed their claim.
Only a moron beleives that a resume getting through an AI filter means “your hired”
Do you left wing nuts ever actually THINK before posting this nonsense.
Good one John
Do you left wing nuts ever actually THINK before posting this nonsense.
They never do
So you have a long comment that really says pretty much nothing, that echos claims by unidentified sources that have no corroboration that if true are a minor hiccup, and even if True actually demonstrate that most ICE new hires are LEOs.
And you think we should all go bonkers.
I have no idea if ICE is using SI to scan resumes of applicants.
But so what if they do ?
But your claim is that even iafter AI prioritizes Applicants – there are no interviews, and no person reads the resumes of people that are hired, and that new hires go straight from AI reading their resume to the Streets of Minneapolis ?
Of course you beleive this garbage – you are the same people who still beleive the Hunter Biden laptop was russian disinformation.
“Algorithms Used To Hire ICE Had Error Rate”
Name a single algorithm ever created that did *not* have an error rate.
So, the Trump administration now admits they screwed up bigly in Minneapolis.
Bovino has been fired.
Noem is under the gun.
And now, in a statement to CNN, Steven Miller said the White House had “provided clear guidance to DHS that the extra personnel that had been sent to Minnesota for force protection should be used for conducting fugitive operations to create a physical barrier between the arrest teams and the disruptors. We are evaluating why the CBP team may not have been following that protocol,”
They admit that ICE was not “following protocol”.
What they REALLY mean is that they admit the video evidence shows that Pretti was murdered in cold blood by the ICE agents. They are going to throw the ICE agents under the bus and blame them for this murder. They are going to blame the ICE agents for going “rogue” and not “following protocol”.
Now we will see murder charges and a HUGE wrongful death settlement.
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WINNING!!!
“So, the Trump administration now admits they screwed up bigly in Minneapolis.”
ROFL
“Bovino has been fired.”
NOT! – Trump just said Bovino is doing a great job, he is just trying a different approach.
Trump talked to Walz – Trump made alot of claims about what Walz agreed to
Walz denied them,
But the MN NG is now protecting Federl buildings in Minneapolis – which means several hundred ICE agents are not needed to do that and have been sent elsewhere.
Walz gets a soundbite that ICE has reduced the number of agents.
But the ability of ICE to function in MN is unimpaired.
Walz has met with Homan.
Then Walz send the MPD to the hotel ICE is reportedly staying at and arrests alot of protestors.
Protestors storm WAlz’s office claiming he betrayed them
How quickly left wing nuts turn on their own.
Should not suprise anyone familiar withe the history of the USSR,
Or look at China right now – aparently there is a power struggle going on between Xi and another faction
Do not know who – but somebody is losing.
“Noem is under the gun.”
Trump was asked about Noem today and he said she was doing a great job.
“What they REALLY mean is that they admit the video evidence shows that Pretti was murdered in cold blood by the ICE agents. ”
You have already lost the Pretti fight.
He was resisting arrest. One ICE agent removed his gun, Pretti then went for his gun that neither he nor the other two agents knew was no longer there – and he was shot while going for that gun.
Justified shoot.
“They are going to throw the ICE agents under the bus and blame them for this murder. They are going to blame the ICE agents for going “rogue” and not “following protocol”.”
Trump is not Walz or Frey, DHS and ICE are not MPD or Minneapolis.
Unlike left wing nuts – no ICE agents are going to be thrwon under the bus like Ofc Chauvin was to plaquate and angry mob.
“Now we will see murder charges”
ROFL
“wrongful death settlement.”
That might be likely -the standard of proof is lower aand juries like to give away other peoples money to dead people families.
Doen’t mean anything.
Miller has ALREADY thrown the ICE agents under the bus by saying that they were not “following protocol”.
This is just political double talk for , “we are going to blame the ICE agents for going rogue”.
Good luck on that one. This wasn’t his first rodeo with ICE. One week before the shooting he fought with officers and broke a rib.
He was looking for a fight again.. Not smart.
“Trump administration now admits they screwed up bigly in Minneapolis.”
Well, let’s see.
MN has now agreed that local and state police will assist ICE, that ICE will have access to MN jails, that MN law enforcement will turn over illegal immigrants to ICE, that it will quell its street thugs.
Please, give me more such “screw ups.”
Let’s have a séance and ask the Founding Fathers who is right:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Séance
No seance is needed. The Founders put their answer in the Constitution. Article I, Section 8, Clause 4 – the Naturalization Clause – grants Congress the power to establish immigration and naturalization laws. The “Take Care Clause” (Article II, Section 3) requires the President to enforce those laws.
ICE has some old DVDs and VHS casettes of Sledge Hammer for the new recruits to watch.
This is all of the training that they receive:
And a frustrated Don Lemon is wondering what a guy has to do to get sent to men’s prison, while Minnesotans begin fleeing to Somalia to escape violence.
oldmanfromkansas said:
” a frustrated Don Lemon is wondering what a guy has to do to get sent to men’s prison…”
That statement is a scream! and needs to be memorialized on a needlepoint throw pillow!
I posted a video of a debate over the Pretti shooting.
Both Legal experts found the shooting justified MULTIPLE ways.
But ONE beleives there is a long shot theory of some culpability for the officer that did NOT shoot Pretti.
That theory requires:
Establishing that ICE was about to leave the scene when the conflict with Pretti started.
Establishing that Pretti had NOT had conflicts with these officers previously
With those it is a long shot.
Without them there is no claim.
Regardless in the same video they addressed the Lemon case.
I would be happy to see Lemon perp walked.
But as both lawyers noted in all the video of Lemon every time the church is discussed Lemon makes it clear he is Reporting on the
“protest”.
While it is likely that Lemon violates several MN laws – such as Tresspassing – there is no federal tresspassing law for private property.
The Federal laws that do apply and were used to charge others, would not apply to Lemon as a journalist.
While I choke on calling Lemon a journalist. It is a very bad idea to use the Klan law or the FACE act to go after a journalist – no matter have much he has blurred the line – because if you do that will come back and bite you.
John
You have to wonder why he back to pick a fight again.
He already had a broken rib from picking a fight just one week early.
I bet he was on pain pills, but went back to pick another fight. Not smart at all.
Hey, it’s uncanny; the building in this video that is brought down by controlled demolition behaved just like Bldg. 7 on 9/11.
Remember when Mossad performed the “elevator refurbishment” on the Twin Towers, loading the hoistways with demolition charges to lend an unknown helping hand to the Saudi Arabian terrorist airline hijackers in the weeks before that date?
Do you remember the good old days when conservatives were all for limited government and against abuses of power by the government against citizens?
Conservatives have never been against government performing its essential functions. One of those is enforcing immigration laws, even if crazed rioters oppose it. Such enforcement keeps our borders secure and removes dangerous criminals from the street. It thus protects actual Americans, a concept you hate. You want a government like under “Joe Biden” that hates Americans and actively tries to make our communities more dangerous. You would be happy with 100 Laken Riley rape/murders. But sane Americans would prefer safer streets. You are protecting child rapists, violent gang members, and murderers. Congrats.
@Anon 5:13. I apologize for misunderstanding. Is your statement here that illegal immigrants and any other non-citizens have the same rights as US Citizens, including governmental supplemental income, governmental funded housing, governmental funded health care, governmental funded debit cards, . . .
and that those costs should be assumed by US Citizens through their payment of state, local and federal taxes (NOT TO MENTION MASSIVE DEBT/DEFICIT ASSUMPTION) and by their children indefinitely in the future? Assumption of those costs and responsibility or repayment for those services awarded over the food on their tables?
I am sure our agriculture, manufacturing, and the other non-urban servants geographically remote and suffering the results of “Sanctuary Cities” — or even their incomes demanded by Deep Blue urban autocrats/royalty/servant owners, and are delighted to enter that servitude and lose their assets, wealth, income and future (of themselves and their children) in order to sustain those providers’ votes and those who vote to take even more and the future for themselves from others.
One cannot have a significant country without definable borders.
Do you remember when the American Founders passed the American immigration laws, or Naturalization Acts, in 1790, 1795, 1798, and 1802, defining definitively what an American and an American citizen were in perpetuity? Those immigration laws were never legally and properly abrogated by legislation.
Remember, those Naturalization Acts persisted for 75 years until somebody started shooting the place up because they didn’t like freedom and the laws in America?
Do you remember America?
________________________________
Naturalization Acts of 1790, 1795, 1798, 1802 (four iterations for clarity)
United States Congress, “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization,” March 26, 1790
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof….
Redcoats and Nazis were just enforcing laws, too.
If you beleive the laws that ICE is enforceing are immoral – go to congress and change them.
ICE is enforcing laws that 80% of the country want.
That the supreme court has determined are constitutional.
A nation that does not have borders, or enforceable immigration laws, is not a nation. By your logic, every nation in the world is Nazi Germany. That’s the kind of defective logic I now expect from liberals.
OT
The “woke” NTSB blames air traffic controllers for the Black Hawk takedown of the American Airlines plane when the very DEI missy was clearly the flyer in control, or not, of the aircraft and at the wrong altitude, allegedly, per media reports.
Air traffic safety is has responsibilities for pilots, and responsibilities for ATC officers. The system concept that a failure by one person isn’t enough to cause a crash. In this case, both the chopper pilot and the DCA Tower failed to do their job properly.
Chopper pilots fly pretty low, so in VFR weather, day or night, they should be able to estimate their altitude above ground by just looking at the apparent size of houses and cars. If you can’t tell the difference between 200′ and 400′, you shouldn’t be flying a chopper.
Hazardous proximity was the fault of ATC.
The collision was the fault of an incompetent, likely unserious, and sloppy DEI pilot.
How much should Alex’s family get?
The entire bill for all damages caused by his criminal actions.
That is an entirely different question.
The standard for criminal liability is far far harder to establish.
Pretti’s family can file a wrongful death claim – and they might win.
Just as OJ was not convicted in criminal court, but lost a civil judgement.
Not a dime. His family told him not to go even with a broken rib from fighting the ICE one week ago.
He went beck from round two! This time armed.
DHS has been undertraining new recruits. Experienced ICE officers have been talking to the media regarding the shocking lack of training and the kinds of people they are hiring. It explains why there are so many of them who are oblvivious to law and abusing people. They are hiring people who can barely read and write, failed their most basic exams, physical fitness standards are wiaved. Have you seen the fat ICE officers? They can barely fit into their gear.
ICE has earned a well deserved reputation as liars and lawless thugs. It’s no surprise that nobody but bigots and racists like ICE or the CBP.
Got proof of that? Or you just making stuff up?
Just making things up – obviously ?
Under-Trained ICE
The algorithms ICE has used for new recruits has mistakenly classified many as experienced law enforcement. And those misidentified are getting only 6 weeks of training as opposed to 13, the standard for new recruits.
Yes, blame an algorithm – one you have not even established exists.
Regardless, ICE is in thhe process of hiring 10,000 new officers. They are not hiring them all at once.
Assuming they hire 1000/month – which is probably a HIGH esitimate.
That would mean they are currently training at most 1000 recruits.
Prior to last week they were operating under Biden’s budget and there was no money for anything but replacement officers.
It is likely that ICE hired 300 new officers in the entirety of 2025. They likely hired more last week – now that they have funding.
So lets seay they have misidentified some new recruits as experiences LEOs.
Would that be ONE, 10, 100, or the entire 1000 likely being hired right now ?
You do not say – and with near certainty you do not know.
Your blowing smoke out of your ass – and you KNOW it.
But your a left wing nut and you beleive your $hit does not smell.
Without any doubt if ICE is hiring 1000 new people – some will “wash out”.
That is normal.
“DHS has been undertraining new recruits.”
Of course they have – first people retire every year, next the BBB authorized hiring 10,000 new agents.
“Experienced ICE officers have been talking to the media regarding the shocking lack of training and the kinds of people they are hiring.”
Then you should be able to cite they people making these claims – though honestly your claim is absurd on its face.
While ICE is explicitly hiring people with experience with firearms – and large numbers of applicants are other law enforcement officers or former military police, anyone is free to apply, and no one who is hired is required to be 100% qualified in order to be hired.
Officers get trained AFTER they are hired – just like ALL THE REST OF US
Do you left wing nuts THINK before spouting nonsense ?
The officer who shot good had 10 years experience,
The officer who shot Pretti has 8 years experience and was a firearms trainer.
95% of the officer currently in ICE were in ICE when Biden was president.
Probably half of them were in ICE was Obama was president.
You idiots do not THINK before spraying idiotic naratives.
It is likely by the end of 2026 that only 50% of ICE officers will have more than 1 year experience.
But then again those NEW RECRUITS will have in 1 year participated in more arrests than 20 year veterans of MPD as an example.
Arresting illegal aliens is all that ICE officers do.
Making schiff up is not argument.
Please provide specifics.
There is lots of video of ICE officers.
Can you show me a single on that is not Fit ?
Line up a bunch of photos of ICE officers next to n equivalent number of MPD officers.
I will bet that the MPD officers have on average 40lbs on the ICE officers.
I will also bet that the MPD officers have far less firearms training – the average city police officer has Schiff for firearms training.
as noted – assuming a 20 year carreer – 50% of current ICE officers were hired while Obama was president and about 20% while Biden was.
Are the Biden and Obama hires bigots and racists ?
Do you left wing nuts ever think before shooting off your mouth ?
not to mention spending years as teens relishing the fantasy of shooting and killing people seen as enemies in video games. You don’t unlearn those entertainment instincts, not the muscle memory of pulling the trigger thousands of times.
“DHS has been undertraining . . .”
Now do MN’s fraud “investigators.”
Or do you want to wait until those Somali pirates have looted another $10 billion?
WHO SHOT ALEX?
FAFO
The communists (liberals, progressives, socialists, democrats, RINOs, AINOs) in Chicago are direct and mortal enemies of the American Thesis of Freedom and Self-Reliance, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, actual Americans, and America.
Evidently and by now they will never be capable of assimilating and must be compassionately repatriated.
Wonderful person, older man, chases down teenage girls and yells at the top of his lungs, over and over: “You motherf—ing c*nt!” Why? Because the girls got their photo taken with an ICE officer. Then the perp is too cowardly to talk to a male who wanted to ask him about it.
Gee, greaaaaat person. Surprise! He’s Mark Holodnak, the Democrat Committee Treasurer for Arizona District 12. Gee, I never thought a Democrat committeeman would ever act that way (eye-roll). I guess it’s pretty mild compared to murdering Charlie Kirk, reacting with glee to the cold-blooded murder of a husband and father of two young children, trying to assassinate a presidential candidate from the opposite party, murdering a health-care CEO, and creating an assassination-chic culture. Let alone putting males into girls’ showers and locker rooms.
https://x.com/Rightanglenews/status/2016179057889628450
OldManFromKS,
Well if you ever want an example of how unhinged leftist Democrats are, there you go. Stay classy leftists.
Upstate – since this unhinged adult male was yelling obscenely at teenage girls at the top of his lungs, calling them all kinds of vulgar names, I’m sure the women’s groups are going to be outraged by this. /sarc They defended Bill Clinton against Paula Jones, and they’ll defend this vile excuse for a human being against the young women he victimized. Why? Because he’s left-wing, and the victimized young women are not.
@oldman
Really, the modern left are hateful, prejudiced, and insane in a way that defies description, and it defies age ranges, too. Putting the machinations of people in office to one side – the voter base are simply insane. I am beginning to think that mass formation psychosis is the perfect descriptor for them. There is nothing ok about any of it, and it is clear now that it is de rigeur. You can’t find sanity inside of madness. It isn’t there.
And you can’t find light inside of darkness. It’s not there. And darkness describes the modern Left in one word.
. Yes, they’re definitely missing a few cards. Quite amazing when people know nothing about organized crime isn’t it.
😏 The no border idea for instance doesn’t indicate if Mexico and Canada agree or is that just the US without a border? Easy to come in but difficult to leave thing?
Oh, c’mon JT. I don’t see anyone in this “free speech” debate taking a content-neutral, principled approach to drawing the line between acceptable and unacceptable public speech. Call it hypocrisy, or the double-standard.
The truth is that there isn’t any mechanistic way to draw this line that can be captured in solid rules everyone can agree on. A rule-based approach to deciding indecent from decent was dismissed by Justice Potter Stewart, who, asked how he would define indecency, famously remarked: “I know it when I see it”.
Why did Stewart say that? I can only speculate he was opining that fine-tuned, context-dependent human judgment is the only reasonable barometer on what is acceptable in the public sphere. That’s because knowing the motivation behind the utterance brings clarity to any value judgment, but the speaker can decide to conceal motive. We’re left to make an intelligent guess based on any number of contextual factors — the actual utterance is taken in context.
Under the pre-internet system of public media (radio, TV, newspapers, books and magazines), human beings exercised editorial judgment of what deserved publication and what didn’t. Generally, these were the more educated, mature, open-minded, and accomplished among society. They “knew it when they saw it” (dubious/trash content).
In defamation court, 12 jurors who all agree deceitful infowarfare has been committed can punish the principals with monetary consequences (while setting the official record straight as to the fact v. artful fiction). Why is a jury of 12 assigned this decision? Because, only human beings can make the fine-grained judgments regarding ill motive, and abuse of the public ear in furtherance of it.
We can draw a red line around general flavors of malicious speech — intimidation, extortion, deceit, anarchic subversion — and some cases will be slam dunks — but case-by-case judgments will always be needed to decide edge-cases, since there is a fuzzy crossover zone for unacceptable public speech.
For this reason, there is something to be said for Community Notes, the feature Elon Musk added to X, which harnesses human judgment to discredit and correct what appears as infowarfare. Classic one-way media like TV is losing its oomph because it doesn’t expose its speech output to instant self-correction.
As the pace of life accelerates, I believe we’ll need fast processes for moderating content that are grounded in human values and experience. Zuck’s fantasy that AI can moderate content is utter nonsense.
Dear Johnny One Note:
“. . . or the double-standard.
“The truth is that there isn’t any mechanistic way to draw this line . . .”
You’re criticizing others for not doing what you claim is impossible to do.
Do you ever read what you write from one paragraph to the next?
There’s no possibility of peaceful coexistence with these people (mind you, these are the same people.that rushed to the defense of the teacher mimicking/laughing about Kirk’s assassination).
Alas, I believe you are correct. They have made peaceful co-existence impossible, because they don’t want to coexist. Coexistence only works if everybody is willing to coexist. Yet the people who aren’t are the very ones with the silly little “coexist” bumper stickers. Smh.
This is an excellent leg debate on the shooting of Pretti.
It is very long. Nate gets a bit hot after an hour, leaves for a while, calms down comes back and they continue.
Regardless, all three of the participants have enormous common ground.
There are only a few things they disagree on.
I would strongly recomend reviewing this video.
They ALSO have the best and cleanest video of the moments before the shooting.
It appears that one officer removed Pretti’s gun.
During the removal of that gun ONE shot is fired.
No one is sure where that shot came from.
It is possible there was a misfire of Pretti’s Gun.
It is possible that One of the Officer’s fired – there MIGHT be some indication of recoil in one of the officers elbows.
Regardless Both Nate and Andrew are in agreement that from the instant that shot was heard, the actions of the other officers were 100% justified.
Nates video also shows Pretti reaching behind him at the time of the shooting, and it shows something where he was reaching – they speculate that it may have been one of the magazines. What appears likely is that After the officer removed Pretti’s Gun – unaware that it was gone – Pretti went for his gun that was not there and may have gotten a clip.
Regardless both Andrew and Nate agreed that Pretti reaching behind him while he was being arrested was sufficient alone to justify the shooting.
The fact that another agent had already taken Pretti’s gun does not change that.
First it is not clear that the two agents who fired knew that.
And 2nd even if they did – it is Common for people to have MULTIPLE weapons if they have one.
Reaching for something behind your back while resisting arrest – and they are absolutely in agreement that Pretti was non-compliant and resisting arrest, is ALONE sufficient to justify shooting
Andrew is one of the foremost experts on the law of self defense,
Nate is a former NYPD officer, a Former Prosecutor, and a Former Defense attorney who has both prosecuted and defended unlawful use of force cases.
While they were not in perfect agreement.
The debate was excellent, and the areas of disagreement small.
Further Nates argument that ICE was in the process of leaving, is something that we do not know, but can be checked.
I love how you “Don’t tread on me guys” look at the Federal government literally treading on citizens and say….”Well…..ACTUALLY….it’s ok to tread.” You really do tell on yourselves that you’ve been cosplaying the whole time. And you know what – that’s totally cool. Just maybe change up your avatar to something more like a doormat – you know – something that is made for getting tread on. Cheers.
Dude
What part of this do you not understand? Pretti was not engaged in peaceful protest or assembly. What are they protesting, the removal of 19 million people that have zero right to be in our country. They were not invited here, they invaded when we had a brain dead old man with dementia in the Whitehouse being run by Barrack Obama’s lifer leftovers of anti American leftists. Let’s protest the removal of criminals, rapists, murderers, kidnappers, fraudsters. How American of them to support this stupidity. I swear to goodness, they deserve what they get and I hope Patel and Bondi have their indictments in order! Where do we donate to ICE?
. They are protesting the republican obstruction of the democrats best effort at skewing the census, eightball.
Yes, to provide us another Omar or Talib…
@Anonymous
Really, you are too juvenile to take seriously. What you portray used to be reserved to street corners because it was ridiculous and most people ignored it. Don’t think we still don’t think the same of you because the internet was invented and you can now send stupidity out to anyone. You sound like you are about five years old, and thankfully, some of us still know how to handle that. People get tired. and they will vote against what is making them tired. Hint: that would be you.
I love how you “Don’t tread on me guys” look at the Federal government literally treading on citizens”
What is it that you think you mean ?
I am not aware of any libertarians or conservatives that are anarchists.
Limited govenrment does not mean NO Government.
What government there is – big or little will ALWAYS be FORCE – Men with Guns.
If you murder someone – Men With Guns from government will come and get you.
What we see in all these minneapolis shootings is that ALL LAWS – even jaywalking laws are ULTIMATELY enforced by GUNS – if people refuse to comply.
Good did not need to block ICE. She chose to, impeding federal law enforcement is a crime.
At the very lease an officer is going to give you a warning.
They may arrest you.
If you are detained – you are not “free to go” – do not leave, it will get worse.
If you are ordered out of you car – if you do not get out – it will get worse
When you are being detained do not throw your car into gear and either deliberately or recklessly plow over a police officer.
It will get worse.
Left wing nuts rant about “descalation” – but the FACT is that Law enforcement is at its core ALWAYS about esclating.
Pay your parking ticket or eventually a police officer arrests you and drags you to court.
Resist the police officer and you get charged with a crime.
Push even harder and you could get shot.
If we say – no one should get shot over a parking ticket – and that is certainly true,
but if literally make that the law – no one will pay their parking tickets.
Libertarians and some conservatives want left alone.
We want the least law necescary
“You and I are told increasingly we have to choose between a left or right. Well I’d like to suggest there is no such thing as a left or right. There’s only an up or down – [up] man’s old-aged dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order, or down to the ant heap of totalitarianism. And regardless of their sincerity, their humanitarian motives, those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.”
I will be happy to join you in eliminating most of our laws.
But no one is agreeing to eliminate all of them.
Don’t tread on me is not Anarchy.
John Say,
Dont tread on me is you dont mess with me, I wont mess with you. Or in this case, Good and Pretti decided to mess with LEOs attempting to carry out their duties. Well, it got worse for them.
There is a video of Good’s girlfriend sitting on the sidewalk crying and saying out loud it was her fault for bringing Good there, to actively obstruct LEOs.
Pretti own family said they told him to protest but not to engage with LEOs and that he understood that. Well, new reporting has it he had a broken rib from a previous engagement with LEOs. It appears he did not understand that.
“Dont tread on me is you dont mess with me, I wont mess with you”
Very good restatement.
“new reporting has it he had a broken rib from a previous engagement with LEOs”
You learn something new and damning about this every day.
I recomend highly the legal debate I linked above – it is very long.
I though I had seen everything in all the videos – and still I learned several new FACTS from andrew and NATE,
as well as LOTS of law. and LOTS of standard LEO procedure that is based on law.
This was a good shoot.
Nate has an argument he admits is incredibly weak for prosecutintg the officer that did NOT shoot PRetti who started the confrontation – but we need facts we do not have to evaluate that.
It is also likely that Pretti’s family will win a wrongful death lawsuit.
The standard is entirely different for that.
But there is ZERO criminal culpability for the officers who shot Pretti.
It is also likely that Pretti’s family will win a wrongful death lawsuit.”
The family very well might, depending on the jury, but I don’t think it should even get to trial.
Correct – if the case is not dissmissed prior to its start there will be a settlement.
. Anon, it’s clear the census is skewed. That’s the gold ring. Obviously the dems are desperate because it skews voting State and Federal, reps to the House, electorals. Your coup hinges on it.
Meanwhile the gerrymandering continues additionally . It’s dishonest. Honesty isn’t in crimes bag-of-tricks.
The USA has invested capital and lives in States and there’s no way its going to piss that land away with a rinky-dink coup effort. Ultimately you lose as you think you’re winning.
If it weren’t so tragic it’d be funny.
Trump interview today on the shooting of Alex Pretti – a legal gun owner demonstrating his 2A rights:
Trump: “with that being said, you can’t have guns.”
Reporter: “What about the second Amendment?”
Trump: “You can’t walk in with guns. You just can’t. You can’t walk in with guns. You can’t do that.”
I don’t think “Don’t Tread on Me” means what you think it means, chief.
Ano
Trump interview today on the shooting of Alex Pretti – a legal gun owner demonstrating his 2A rights:
_________________________________
So now the left supports the right to carry.. HAHAHAHA.
Look at yourself. For what 60+ years all have heard from the left. YOU CAN’T GUNS. Only the government can!!
Dustoff, John Browns gun club.
Trump “I don’t like any shooting. I don’t like it. But I don’t like it when somebody goes into a protest and he’s got a very powerful, fully loaded gun with two magazines loaded up with bullets also. That doesn’t play good either.”
Trump “At some point we will leave. We’ve done, they’ve done a phenomenal job,”
“We’ll leave a different group of people there for the financial fraud.”
. Push them into the boundaries of armed insurrection. Pretti put his hands on an officer. They took him down. No officer could see the officer remove the gun. They heard ” gun” over the whistlers. The officer shot.
John Say: Interesting discussion, thanks.
re:
“Regardless both Andrew and Nate agreed that Pretti reaching behind him while he was being arrested was sufficient alone to justify the shooting.”
While Noem’s referral to Pretti “brandishing” a weapon seems severe/equivocal, it is interesting to note that by legal definition, direct visibility of a weapon is not required for a brandishing charge…I do recall a video showing one of the LEO’s repeatedly hand-smacking Pretti’s arm/hand away, -was he reaching for his waistband? I dunno.
The other factor for me is that media continues to sequentially construct the rapid occurrence of fire, deciding that Pretti was shot AFTER his gun was removed. –But the “Gun!” warning is milliseconds from the first shot, and how many officers knew that one of their fellow officers had removed it in that millisecond time frame? I dunno.
In all fairness: even if they thought he “brandished” a weapon, would they have shot him if they knew that the gun had been removed? (the possibility that he may have been carrying a second weapon, weighted against his physical restraint/constraint by LEOs, appears a non-factor?)
Starting atleast back with the Trevon Martin nonsense, Law Enforcement has become increasingly Rapid in responding to use of force situations.
Decades ago it was “lets wait for the facts and investigation”
If ranking officials try that today, within 2hrs the left has convicted the person of incredibly heinous crimes and is busy rioting, burning down the country and sending perfectly innocent officers like Chauvin to prison.
I is an absolute necescity for ranking officials to get on top of things to “spin” things from the start – that is regretable.
But it is necescary.
Noems remarks were incompletely informed and proved to be false.
But I am not bent out of shape – they stopped the rush to judgement long enough for better information to come out.
With every day more comes out.
I thought I had seen all the videos and knew all there was to know.
But Nate and Andrew pointed out – watching video I had already seen that:
Pretyi reached behind himself – likely for the gun, AFTER the gun was taken.
They note that there are 4 Officers involved.
One initiated the conflict.
One removed the gun.
Two did the shooting.
Only the officer who removed the gun could know for CERTAIN the gun was missing.
The two officers that shot Pretti saw him reach behind him – where milliseconds before his gun had been
If those officers did not know the gun was gone – they were justified in shooting.
Nate and Andrew point out that once the first shot was fired – and we still do not know where that shot was from.
There is much speculation that Pretti’s gun misfired – it is KNOW to misfire and it has no Safety. It is a cheap an unreliable gun.
Regardless, the moment that that was heard – any officer that did NOT fire that shot was justified in shooting Pretti.
They also noted that when “Gun, Gun, Gun” was heard – the officers were justified in shooting.
Protocol is NOT to shout “Gun, Gun, Gun” when a gun is visible, but when it is presenting a threat.
Both Andrew and Nate note that the officers are allowed to rely on Knowledge they have from previous encounters with Pretti or the other protestors.
We KNOW with Good she had been obstructing ICE all day – that she had followed them from location to location.
We also KNOW that Pretti was part of a signal group that was actively obstructing ICE and moving agitators arround the city in response to ICE’s movements.
But the ICE officers did NOT know that at the time – so that can’t be factored in.
But that makes it likely this is NOT the first time they encountered Pretti.
And they ARE allowed to factor in prior interactions.
“I do recall a video showing one of the LEO’s repeatedly hand-smacking Pretti’s arm/hand away, -was he reaching for his waistband? I dunno.”
I have not seen that video.
But if Pretti was reaching even near where the gun was.
Or as Nate and Andrew Agreed reaching ANYWHERE that officers could not see where there MIGHT be a gun,
They were justified in shooting.
Officers do NOT have to wait until it is clear that a non-compliant person reaching behind them points a teddy bear at them to decide whether he is dangerous.
Pretti was resisting arrest AND moving his hand where the officers could not see it.
That is enough.
They also point out that Pretti was attempting to stand up when he was shot.
That is more resisting arrest and more evidence he remains dangerous.
Nate is “relatively” on the left – but he is a former police officer, and unlike so many of the idiots posting here – he understands the rules and procedures and standards that have been worked out – often by court cases over decades.
So many of those on the left want to pretend that based on a shallow understanding of circumstances without reference to the reality of what has happened many many times before in the real world and what has been worked out by the courts, they can GUESS about each incident.
The rules and procedures allow Officers to shoot people resisting arrest who reach where their hands can not be seen,
because in the real world officers end up dead if they do not act immediately.
Both Nate and Andrew pointed out the importance reaction time plays in all this.
If an officer waits until someone like Pretti’s hand comes out behind his back and the gun is visible – they are DEAD.
Courts worked that out long ago.
You do not have to have a gun for the police to have a justified shooting.
You just have to appear to be reaching for a weapon.
If you are resisting arrest – reaching where officer can not see is “reaching for a weapon”.
Regardless whether it is the good shooting or the pretti shooting.
The analysis can not be based on who you wish was right.
What outcome you want.
As Andrew pointed out at one point – if there is a 20% chance of some further dangerous action by the person being arrested – the officer is justified in responding to that chance.
Officers do NOT need certainty to react to potential threats.
Waiting for certainty gets you killed.
About 400 people a year are killed by law enforcement.
More than 100 police are killed each year.
Every single police officer in the country KNOWS about every officer that gets killed.
And they KNOW what mistake they made, and determine NOT to make that mistake themselves.
We all want all encounters with Law Enforcement to end with no one dead.
But the officers are NOT playing poker. They are NOT trying to achieve 50:50 odds
They are striving to have a 100% chance of walking away alive and uninjured.
AFTER that they strt trying to improve the odds of survival of the person they are arresting.
thanks, john I did not watch the video that you provided; instead, I relied on your summary and that’s what I was responding to.
(p.s. I previously provided statistic summaries on deaths by police at https://www.statista.com/statistics/1362796/number-people-killed-police-us/) take a look at it. Also, my comment on the “milliseconds” between “Gun, Gun!” and the first shot was based on the initial rendering published, but that is now wrong and moot because the official record assigns it at five seconds,
“thanks, john I did not watch the video that you provided”
It is long but I recomend it there is ALOT in it.
Alos you really have to watch most of it – it gets heated in the first hour, But Nate comes back later and has cooled down and he and Andrew ultimately agree on pretty much everything.
The area they disagree is the behavior of the FIRST officer – the one who had nothing to do with the shooting,
But had the initial contact and started Pretti’s arrest.
Nate beleives that officers conduct was not lawful and a case could be made that Pretti did therefore have a right to self defense.
But that does NOT change the analysis of the justification of the other 3 officers, and the officer Nate thinks has problems did NOT shoot Pretti.
Nates analysis depends on some Guesses based on things at the very start of the video, and the assumption that theese officers did NOT encounter Pretti before.
We do not know either of these – but likely eventually will.
But Nate did not convince me.
But he did convince me that the officer starting things may have been overstepping alittle.
I do not think that rises to a crime.
But there is alot more in the video. Both pointed out several things I had missed in many viewings of various videos.
I have a different source on the number of police shootings per year.
I have no idea which is right. But thank you for your statista link.
LOTS of policing statistics have multiple sources and you must take care NEVER to shift from one to the other.
But they all (almost) show the same trends.
WaPo has their own crimes statistics that it tracks from news clippings.
The FBI queries Police forces – but many do not respond.
Then there is the National Crime Victims Survey.
NORMALLY all show the same trends.
The claim that the Biden admin was making false claims about declining crime came fromt he fact that the NCVS and the FBI data went in opposite directions – which never happened before.
One reason was because the Biden admin made the FB reporting much more complex, and more police forces said screw this.
The FBI tried to guestimate the missing data – but that is always fraught with subjectivity – we have the same problem with the subjective modifications to the Census to account for people that the Census beleives they missed.
Regardless it is Trends that are usually important in data – not the absolute values.
“Also, my comment on the “milliseconds” between “Gun, Gun!” and the first shot was based on the initial rendering published, but that is now wrong and moot because the official record assigns it at five seconds,”
Nothing I have seen has 5 secs from “gun, gun gun”
Further there is a single shot that comes FIRST that we only have speculation about.
Many say it is from a misfire, I have vascilated on that – but increasingly the experts are moving to that.
A few say it is a single shot from ONE ICE agent – then a gap, before the rest of the shots.
Regardless you can use Pretti reaching behind himself to justify the shoot,
You can use the first shot – if it is a misfire, OR if you are not the officer that fired it.
Or you can use “gun, gun, gun” to justify the shoot.
John Say: thanks for your take. I normally would not even pay attention but we are stuck indoors with the bad weather so I am more closely watching my anathema, the collective slanted media, on this.
The left and DemoKrats prove over and over, daily, who the real fascists, the real totalitarians, are.
You’re so right Brian – those Lefties continue to demonstrate their constitutional rights by posting videos of the doughy dudes who’ve crawled out of their mothers’ basements playing army and beating up American citizens. And I’m guessing they’ll continue to prove how fascistic those camo-cosplayers are – and successfully too based on the polls.
Interfering with ANY law enforcement in performance of their duty is not an expression of free speech. It’s a crime. Those who wish to protest should do so from the safe distance of 25 to 50 yards from the operation. Yell scream call names whatever but stay the hell out of the way.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
you mean the mysterious polls conducted by CNN and MSNBC et al?
Nah – this one reported by Fox:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/support-slipping-trump-immigration-push-majority-say-crackdown-goes-too-far-poll
but you bypass the effect of partisan polls and media on the general sentiment and perception of FOXNews polling.
Instead of figuring out where people stand on issues, media floods the public with partisan propaganda, then takes “polls” to gauge results, then publishes those results, which affect subsequent poll participants. Notice the date on the FoxNews Poll
You’re so full of shit it’s sickening. You keep leaving out the part where those poor beat up citizens are far surpassing their constitutional rights and are engaged in cthe criminal activities of harassing and obstructing those doughy dude law enforcement officers from performing their duties.
Clearly, the REAL victims of all the ICE shenanigans are those poor, poor “agents” and anyone posting a “Go-ICE” sign. Thoughts and prayers – not sure how they get through the day. Turley sure does know how to speak Bovino well.
Don’t settle for less than a million. ☺. Move because your life is in danger.
^^^ a million cash after the dust settles. Dust are taxes and legal fees. This will affect the rest of your life remember. Million minimum.
BTW, Go ICE? Doesn’t that mean leave ICE or Go away ICE? WTH
There is absolutely no longer any question that if last November had gone any other way – we’d be under the same boot-stomp of our rights as a great deal of Western Europe or Canada. Given the ream, and reams, and reams of documented and shared hatred from the modern left on social media and virtually everywhere else, this is patently absurd. All they are doing is ensuring nobody competent or sane ever works in their district ever again, and eventually, yes, voters will have had enough. It also emphasizes the fact that if Musk had not opened up Twitter (X), we’d still be suppressed and in the dark. The corruption and madness on the left are breathtaking; Watergate may as well have never happened by comparison.
I think we are witnessing the death of the modern DNC in real time, and of course they will fight like hell, just as any cornered, feral animal would. The tragedy is they did it to themselves, because at some point their sanity and decency simply ceased to exist. If you want to get really abstract – we could finally be seeing the death of what began with Feudalism.
It’s important to point out that the teacher is only on administrative leave. Application of the Pickering test likely means they won’t be ultimately be fired.
But is it surprising that posting “Go ICE” when you teach in a district with more than an 80% Hispanic population is gonna piss off a bunch of parents?
Interesting that you assume persons of Hispanic heritage don’t support ICE. The ones I know certainly do.
Mistressadams, that’s been my experience also.
@Anonymous
And that, in itself, is enough. If you want to find a fascist, anon, look in the mirror. Lately that seems to apply to sociopaths, too. You are not making the point you seem to think you are making.
Talk about an escalation in rhetoric. Not to mention rude.
@Anonymous
Really, you aren’t making the point you think you are making, you are reinforcing its opposite. Maybe take a look at that thinkin’ of yours, and next time, take a logic class in college with a non-woke professor. I’m not even worked up, just concerned about your very obvious confusion. I hope you feel and think better, not for the revolution that you invented, but for yourself. You will be old someday, too, and the people that pay you will be dead then. None of this going to matter at all then, and you could live that way now.
Your last sentence touches the heart of the matter. The teacher has the right to post what he did. However in doing so he legitimately offended the community in which he works. Not the smartest thing to do. As I told my students for 33 years ” You have right to say a great many things, but just because a thought enters your head doesn’t mean it should come out of your mouth.”
The teacher has his 1stA right to freedom of speech.
No where in the Constitution does any one have the right to be offended.