The Texas legislature passed a bill to allow college students, teachers, and employees to carry concealed weapons on school grounds. This is the solution found by Sen. Jeff Wentworth, R-San Antonio, to the problem of the Virginia Tech massacre — fill campuses with firearms.
Wentworth insists that the lack of guns allowed students and faculty to be “picked off like sitting ducks.” Notably, the legislature prohibited the guns in university hospitals and athletic facilities.
Wentworth insists that “I would feel personally guilty if I woke up one morning and read that something similar had occurred on a Texas campus.” It appears that he will not feel quite so guilty with a dozen or so individual incidents of shootings in various schools around the state. This should make grade reviews interesting for teachers who can keep one hand on their testing sheets and one hand on their magnums.
There are eleven universities that currently allow handguns on campus.
For the full story, click here
Anybody remember Charles Whitman? Sniper, sitting duck, UT Austin, sound familiar? Make my day.
For sale: Bible holsters. Actual bibles with the pages cut out shaped to your weapon of choice.
Try our quick draw bible holster that allows you to grasp your weapon through the bible base in case things turn bad in study hall. For added peace of mind, we’ll thrown in our gideon adapter that lets you reload with ease.
And, introducing the two inch derringer model hidden in a cross necklace. Just touch any part of Jesus to launch a preemptive smite.
Testimonial: Thanks Bible holsters! I now have peace of mind when my children attend vacation bible skool in Texas!
LOL
UT Law’s moot court team will now be able to submit much more compelling arguments.
whoolie,
preemptive smite.
rofl
The Texans may be trying to keep up with the Joneses in Arkansas where a law to allow guns in church was a topic of discussion.
http://blogdredd.blogspot.com/2009/02/pop-cap-for-jesus.html
Hey wait a minute there Buster. Don’t forget Oklahoma wants to make it Justifiable Homicide for killings by a pregnant woman. SO stop it right here. Trying to compare Texas with Arkansas. It was finally decided that if a man and woman moved to Texas from Arkansas and got divorced, they were still Brother and Sister
So don’t lump us all together. We make all look alike but we don’t all talk alike, ya here?
Only Kidding, well not about the talking part.
OFF TOPIC: Big Brother
The FCC claims it has warrantless search powers under the Communications Act of 1934 (untested in the court).
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/05/fcc-raid/
I was actually walking around campus of my school yesterday and I saw a newspaper talking about this issue. I thought to myself for a moment: would I feel safer if students could carry concealed weapons? Normally I am pretty pro-gun, but in this instance I completely disagree. First of all, I don’t trust anyone I don’t know with a firearm. The idea that I would have to constantly consider that everyone passing each other walking down the sidewalk or inside school buildings could possibly have a weapon makes me feel significantly LESS safe.
Texas was already the worst state in the union before this, so this just gives me more reason to never go there. I feel bad for students who now have to walk around fearful that everyone is carrying a pistol under their jacket.
A little known fact…
The first testicular guard “Cup” was used in Hockey in 1874 and the first helmet was used in 1974.
It took 100 years for men to realize that the brain is also important.
Looks like Texas hasnt yet.
Sounds like a movie script to me. Here’s some prospective lines from “Magnum Cum Laude: Education Under Fire”:
“Go ahead with that torts exam professor — make my day.”
“Well you pointy headed academic punk, for my small group I want me and Smith and Wesson.”
“In all that confusion at the testing center, I can’t remember if I fired 6 shots or only 5. How do you feel today proctor? Lucky?”
Ah Texas where the men are men, and the women, well, they don’t want to procreate.
Buddha:
that was interesting. Big brother is alive and well. We need a new government, start new from the bottom up.
Are there even any people at the FCC that are saying WTF?
BobEsq is correct.
whoolie:
Terrific thanks!
“Sen. Rodney Ellis, D-Houston, said the bill could confuse university police…” Could people who choose to carry handguns be identified by being required to wear ridiculously silly hats too?
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1195/1130536088_9a2f79e3ea.jpg
When I was an undergraduate I worked for awhile as a ward clerk in the college infirmary. Exam period each semester was marked by an increase in the number of students admitted with a diagnosis of “anxiety reaction.” This new legislation will provide students with an alternative method of stress reduction that eliminates the dependency risks associated with medications. After all, it worked for Charles Whitman.
I think its also worthwhile to weigh the fact that normal college age is the most common time for mental health problems to arrive. You have a bunch of kids away from home who may or may not have a stable support system and may or may not be willing to seek treatment. Then you basically ignore that and say that allowing students to carry guns on campus will prevent more VA Tech shootings. I don’t know. It just doesn’t make sense to me. If I ever saw someone walking down the street carrying a gun (my state has concealed carry), I would probably feel really anxious. Police officers, regardless of how much I personally trust them, have been screened and trained to use their weapons. The concealed carry class is such a joke and people don’t have to submit to psych testing and whatnot. I feel like the presence of a concealed firearm (if I noticed it or suspected it) deprives me of the right to live free from unnecessary worry. Concealed carry by anyone without police/military makes the world a less safe place in my opinion.
Sorry, I don’t care if you’re a deer hunter for one week of the year. I doubt the capability of any average person to safely carry and effectively employ a firearm in any kind of dangerous situation. I was trained to fire handguns in the military and had to qualify every so often, but I still feel that me carrying around a firearm is a much bigger risk/liability than just recognizing that the chance of any armed conflict (which you could actually do anything about) is virtually zero. So in essence, all you are doing is carrying around a deadly weapon for no reason at all (other than to make you feel big and strong and to assuage your paranoid delusions).
my son wants to attend school in texas. i will not allow that now.
Matthew
YOu raise a good point about the vulnerability of college kids away from home for the first time. Isn’t that what Campus Crusade for Christ is all about? and other cults?
I lived in Texas, in Austin, for one year.
My husband was going a post-doc there and I spent my time trying to figure out why anyone would live there voluntarily.
It was an okay place, except for the bugs, the weather and the people. Austin is kind of scenic and for 2 weeks in the spring and 2 weeks in the fall you can be outdoors and enjoy the river and the parks and can play tennis or go jogging. The rest of the year its either bone chilling cold or 100 degrees with 90% humidity or dry and 110 with afternoon thunderstorms that can frighten you out of your shoes and flash floods.
We lived there after the Whitman massacre and the top deck of the tower at UT was closed off to the public but it doesn’t take much imagination to figure out why he chose that site or the panic he created.
It doesn’t surprise me one single bit that Texans want to make concealed weapons on campus a reality. When I lived there, there was this drive thru liquor store called Party Barn. You could load up on as much beer as your vehicle would hold without getting out of the driver’s seat. There was no open container law and people talked about how many 6-packs to took to drive from Austin to Dallas, or to San Antonio or to Houston.
I could go on and on about how much I actually hated Texas and I was happiest there on my last day when we loaded up the cars and began the drive back to California.
Since then I’ve lived in a bunch of other states but the one place I’d never go back to is texas.
GWLSM:
having lived in CA myself, any state would be a hard act to follow. There is no better road than the Pacific Coast highway, and Monterey and Half Moon Bay and Carmel-nonpareil.
cough cough cough Napa cough cough
GWLSM:
I forgot Napa and Yosimite and Lake Taho and well everywhere in the frigging state is great.
What about the 10% personal income tax and 8% sales tax?
Good! About time law abiding people can defend themselves!
Jeeze you clowns.
The problem people are GOING TO HAVE OR GET THE GUNS ANYWAY.
I find it amazing you all think we can’t stop people from taking drugs, we can’t stop young kids from having sex, we can’t stop two people that are in love from marriage despite them being of the same sex……….BUT WE CAN SOMEHOW STOP DERANGED PEOPLE FROM GETTING A GUN!
This is a good law. It permits people to properly defend themselves.
Bron98,
Loved the sports equipment history lesson.
Oh, BTW,
Regarding Texas, I’ve come to the holding and reasoning from the case of Buck v. Bell should be applied in force to the entire population; ‘one generation of Texas imbiciles is quite enough’.
*come to the conlusion that the holding…
BobEsq:
to be thoroughly congruent in your application of constitutional rights, there should be no restrictions on imbecility.
Although Justice Holmes would disagree-
“We have seen more than once that the public welfare may call upon the best citizens for their lives. It would be strange if it could not call upon those who already sap the strength of the State for these lesser sacrifices, often not felt to be such by those concerned, in order to prevent our being swamped with incompetence. It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes.”
A reason for devolution?
Good arguments, cherry. I trust we can now count on you to actively campaign for the abolition of all laws regulating drug use and sexual encounters between (or among) consenting adults. Is that correct?
Matthew N
“I feel like the presence of a concealed firearm (if I noticed it or suspected it) deprives me of the right to live free from unnecessary worry.”
You have no such right, and if you did, I think that my right to self defense or to protect my wife overrides your right to not feel worried.
“Concealed carry by anyone without police/military makes the world a less safe place in my opinion.”
You have a right to any opinion, but they are usually more valuable backed by facts. You offer none.
“I doubt the capability of any average person to safely carry and effectively employ a firearm in any kind of dangerous situation.”
And here you are flat out wrong. Spend several hours or days reading this website’s archives: http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/blogger.html
All this site does is aggregate news stories from around the country, stories of normal people using firearms to defend themselves. It happens every day.
“I was trained to fire handguns in the military and had to qualify every so often, but I still feel that me carrying around a firearm is a much bigger risk/liability than just recognizing that the chance of any armed conflict (which you could actually do anything about) is virtually zero.”
In which case YOU shouldn’t carry a gun. Your opinion of your own skill should have no bearing on the many other human beings who have clearly shown that they can do what you think you cannot, military training or otherwise.
“So in essence, all you are doing is carrying around a deadly weapon for no reason at all (other than to make you feel big and strong and to assuage your paranoid delusions).”
Your arrogance is disgusting. Every day in this country people who would otherwise be hopelessly outmatched are given a chance to live by using a firearm. Go to the website I mentioned above, then come back and tell me how worthless guns are. Tell me how it’s all an ego stroke.
I said it in other threads but I’ll repeat it. My politics are as left or progressive as anyone here. I am perfectly happy with my penis size. I do not fear an impending UN takeover/zombie invasion/race war/. I live in a “safe” neighborhood and know that my individual chances of being a victim of a violent crime are very low. Despite that, I personally knew one murder victim, was acquainted with another, am one degree removed from another, and two degrees removed from yet another. I don’t think it will happen to me. I don’t think I will get in a car accident. I don’t think my house will catch fire.
I carry a gun. I wear a seatbelt. I have fire extinguishers.
I do not walk in fear of any of those possibilities.
Seriously folks, you have got to get over your preconceived notions.
This Law did not pass the Texas Ledge only the Senate.
GWLawSchoolMom
You raise a good point about the vulnerability of college kids away from home for the first time. Isn’t that what Campus Crusade for Christ is all about? and other cults?
Heck yeah and on the Drag were Jews for Jesus and in the Mall were other neophytes.
*************************************************
I lived in Texas, in Austin, for one year.
My husband was going a post-doc there and I spent my time trying to figure out why anyone would live there voluntarily.
I lived in Austin and had a very nice time sorta. Well the cops did have there patience or breaking points too. I was a smart student, always one step ahead.
*************************************************
It was an okay place, except for the bugs, the weather and the people. Austin is kind of scenic and for 2 weeks in the spring and 2 weeks in the fall you can be outdoors and enjoy the river and the parks and can play tennis or go jogging. The rest of the year its either bone chilling cold or 100 degrees with 90% humidity or dry and 110 with afternoon thunderstorms that can frighten you out of your shoes and flash floods.
Smoke enough weed and you can live anywhere. Well live like a student anyway. The bugs never bothered me. The weather and spring at Barton springs. Ah the memories, hippie hollow, oh yes that too. Just remember what Clayton Willman’s said about Texas weather. You must enjoy the weather.
**************************************
We lived there after the Whitman massacre and the top deck of the tower at UT was closed off to the public but it doesn’t take much imagination to figure out why he chose that site or the panic he created.
The only Panic that existed was when I was almost out of something or………
But it was a different time, then.
*************************************
It doesn’t surprise me one single bit that Texans want to make concealed weapons on campus a reality. When I lived there, there was this drive thru liquor store called Party Barn. You could load up on as much beer as your vehicle would hold without getting out of the driver’s seat. There was no open container law and people talked about how many 6-packs to took to drive from Austin to Dallas, or to San Antonio or to Houston.
It does not surprise me either about the guns. Does it surprise you that we have drive though Party Stores? Not me, its faster than walking especially when you are drinking. Open containers, not a problem, thats why we go to the drive through. You do have drive ins. This just the better version.
*****************************************
I could go on and on about how much I actually hated Texas and I was happiest there on my last day when we loaded up the cars and began the drive back to California.
Well California I could say things too. But I am kind, but no one gets out of the Hotel don’t you know.
*************************************************
Since then I’ve lived in a bunch of other states but the one place I’d never go back to is texas.
Mame’ you are welcome to come back here, anytime you want.
JW,
First off I after reading your comment and Mathew’s, I’d say that as far as egotism goes, you may want to remove the rather large splinter in your own eye…
Secondly, your website isn’t all that great of evidence. A list of anecdotes prove nothing, and that website seems to be a massive case of selective thinking (they only look for information that supports their theory). Now if you were to give a study that compared violent crime in similar locations that differ in gun control laws (preferably several, so the data pool is as large as possible), that would be GREAT evidence.
I actively examine my beliefs every day, do you? Are you here to engage in conversation, or to convert the heathens?
AY,
I always enjoy your spirited defenses of Texas, but I have to ask… why does half the population of Texas spend their summers in Colorado. No offense, but they’re the worst of the flat lander tourists we get.
Gyges-
Egotism? My view is that responsible adults should have the right to defend themselves and their loved ones. Matthew N believes that because he can’t use a gun for self defense, it must not be possible for anyone else. I’m egotistical?
As for that website, I was not refuting specific crime rates or statistics. Matthew was making the assertion that untrained citizens weren’t capable of defending themselves with firearms (since he was trained and he couldn’t): “I was trained to fire handguns in the military and had to qualify every so often, but I still feel that me carrying around a firearm is a much bigger risk/liability than just recognizing that the chance of any armed conflict (which you could actually do anything about) is virtually zero.”
As that website shows, (as well as the 13 studies discussed in the previous thread) armed Americans defend themselves with firearms frequently, hundreds of thousands of times per year in fact (at the least).
JW,
You weren’t refuting anything. You were making a claim: Hand guns are used to save the lives of (potential) victims of violent crime. From your comment, “Every day in this country people who would otherwise be hopelessly outmatched are given a chance to live by using a firearm.”
Anecdotes of the use of guns in self defense might prove half of that (hand guns are used) but doesn’t speak to the other half (the victims would have died otherwise). What WOULD speak to the second half is the kind of study I was suggesting.
You make a claim, it’s up to you to prove it.
JW,
I almost forgot, I’ve read the meta-study you’ve linked to. A large part of it is dedicated to discussing the problems in the data collection techniques of the studies it analyzed. The author’s argue that the flaws bias the numbers down, but they could just as easily be high.
RE:
Cherry: “This is a good law. It permits people to properly defend themselves.”….
So let me understand you properly…. I pull a gun on you but you are so sharp that you beat me to the draw and shoot at me but miss me!! In your enthsiasm to shoot me (and defend the 2nd. amendment) you hit John Doe 9 (standing close by) by mistake, and kill him. Now are you responsible for John Doe’s death or am I? Do you feel justified? Did you really save anyone?
Listen up cowboy, we don’t have school massacres anywhere else EXCEPT in the goof old USA. Now stretch the neurones a little more and ask why? No it is not drugs, or gangs, or immigrants, or twinkies……it’s your dumb STUPID RECKLESS gun laws. We need to ban guns PERIOD. And that is what I am devoting the second haf of my life to doing, including cjhanging the 2nd. amendment.
See you in court CHERRY
Damien
I nowhere said that I could not use a gun to defend myself. I simply stated that when you weigh the cost versus benefit of carrying a deadly weapon, the benefits outweigh the risk. Even if I am a regular Lone Ranger with a pistol, the fact of the matter is that the risk of any violent encounter is practically zero. Why would I want to walk around with a loaded weapon on my hip just begging some cop to shoot me or begging some paranoid hillbilly to start something? I have had a gun pulled on me before and I’ve had bullets fly past me. I’ve grown up with guns my whole life and I’m not afraid of them at all. I disagree with most gun control laws, but I think this one goes too far. I don’t want to share a small room with people who are carrying loaded weapons that I don’t know. (Personally, I have no desire to carry a weapon. In the off chance that some violent incident did occur, I am quite prepared to intervene regardless.)
I think about it this way: I wouldn’t leave my laptop (or something else valuable) sitting around and walk away nor would I ask some random person to watch it for me. One of the only fundamental truths in the world is that you can’t really trust anyone. If I wouldn’t trust the average Joe to have the character or competency to watch something as trivial as a material good for me, why should I trust these same average Joes to walk around carrying loaded deadly weapons?
I am all for people having the right to defend themselves. This is really one of the first gun control measures I think goes too far. I know many people in my own state who have concealed carry licenses who have ZERO business carrying a weapon. I’m mostly talking about friends and family I’ve known my whole life– people who I know are quite unstable, unfamiliar with firearms (other than their day long concealed carry class), and have exhibited exceedingly poor judgment in the past.
This isn’t the “Wild West.” Violent incidents are few and far between in most communities. The ability for people to legally carry a hidden weapon poses a risk not only to the general public but also to police officers.
I misspoke in my previous post:
I simply stated that when you weigh the cost versus benefit of carrying a deadly weapon, the RISK outweighs the BENEFITS.
Gyges 1, May 22, 2009 at 4:38 pm
AY,
I always enjoy your spirited defenses of Texas, but I have to ask… why does half the population of Texas spend their summers in Colorado. No offense, but they’re the worst of the flat lander tourists we get.
*******************************************
What part of the near northwest Texas of Colorado don”t you understand is part of Texas. Yes, the rubs our cousins do get out of hand at time. But then are shootable. Take aim and fire. Just tell the people that come look at the corpse that you were just defending your home. And you were afraid that they were going to break in. Thats all you need to do. Some have money and some don’t. Expect the familys of the ones that don’t to sue you and the family of those that have money to thank you as they no longer have to share in the family dynasty. Oh yeah, Carrington Oil. But did they ever figure out who shot JR? Did anybody really care? Did anybody get sued? See my point. IN any case you’d be doing someone a favor.
Disclaimer
I was only kidding. I think. Buddha made me do it. It was those damn monkeys he sent.
Hey Buddha,
Where art thou? Is it planting time yet? You out working the fields?
This potential law is being discussed in the perfect place for more concealed weapons, the State of Texas. To all of the pro-concealed weapons people, why does Texas need more guns? Don’t the criminals in Texas know that they will be executed in Texas if they commit a crime so noone will misuse a weapon in Texas. Right?
Matthew N
“Why would I want to walk around with a loaded weapon on my hip just begging some cop to shoot me or begging some paranoid hillbilly to start something?”
Matthew, you say this as though we can’t possibly know the answer. The problem is, the experiment has already been done! Shall Issue concealed carry has been a reality in over half of the country for the better part of a decade, and the craziness you fear simply hasn’t materialized.
“I am all for people having the right to defend themselves.”
Except if it’s with the best tool for doing so apparently.
“This isn’t the “Wild West.” Violent incidents are few and far between in most communities. The ability for people to legally carry a hidden weapon poses a risk not only to the general public but also to police officers.”
This sounds like something we would have heard year and years ago when the CCW movement was first starting. We now know that cops don’t freak out and shoot CCW carriers and CCWs don’t go Rambo at the first sign of a shoplifter and shoot up innocent bystanders.
DG59-
“Listen up cowboy, we don’t have school massacres anywhere else EXCEPT in the goof old USA.”
Of the ten worst school massacres of all time, six were not in the United States. Of those six, three were of the standard “active shooter” variety we think of when we think of a school shooting. Of the four in the U.S., three fall in that category. Contrary to popular belief, the worst school massacre in U.S. history was not at Virginia Tech and it wasn’t a shooting.
“Now stretch the neurones a little more and ask why? No it is not drugs, or gangs, or immigrants, or twinkies……it’s your dumb STUPID RECKLESS gun laws.”
Eh, I’m going with drugs plus a unique blend of cultural factors. People often point out stuff like, “Gun crime in such and such a country is less than half what it is in the U.S.” What they don’t often say is that if you cancel out all gun crime in the U.S., our violent crime rate is *still* higher. We have a violent crime problem independent of guns.
“We need to ban guns PERIOD. And that is what I am devoting the second haf of my life to doing, including cjhanging the 2nd. amendment.”
Thankfully, you’re the type of gun control activist who has the lowest likelihood of achieving anything, but hey, knock yourself out.
rafflaw-
“This potential law is being discussed in the perfect place for more concealed weapons, the State of Texas. To all of the pro-concealed weapons people, why does Texas need more guns?”
I don’t think it’s going to lead to all that many more guns, just to people who already have them carrying them more.
“Don’t the criminals in Texas know that they will be executed in Texas if they commit a crime so noone will misuse a weapon in Texas. Right?”
I’m not a good pro-CCW person to ask. I’m as anti death penalty as you can get.
Gyges-
“You weren’t refuting anything.”
Yeah I was. One more time, he said he didn’t think normal people could defend themselves and I pointed to that website as proof that he was wrong.
“You were making a claim:”
To refute his…
“”Hand guns are used to save the lives of (potential) victims of violent crime. From your comment, “Every day in this country people who would otherwise be hopelessly outmatched are given a chance to live by using a firearm.”
Anecdotes of the use of guns in self defense might prove half of that (hand guns are used) but doesn’t speak to the other half (the victims would have died otherwise). What WOULD speak to the second half is the kind of study I was suggesting.
You make a claim, it’s up to you to prove it.”
Ok, I’ll rephrase. Hundreds of thousands of times per year, regular people use firearms against criminals in scenarios that might have lead to the law abiding citizen’s injury or death, but that probably would have ended with hugs and cookies.
Is that better?
JW,
Nope, you’re still unwilling to critically examine your position, or the evidence you use to support it. I don’t expect you to change, or even care what I think, but I was hoping for an intellectually honest discussion. Since it seems I won’t get that from you, I hope you have a nice time here, but I’m done with you.
You will unlikely find a stronger supporter of 2nd Amendment rights and as a NRA member, I think that having guns on campus is a terrible idea.
One main problem is having fat-bellied campus rent-a-cops who could not fight their way out of a pre-teeny bopper slumber party pillow fight. Furthermore, there is little enforcement of laws on the books and then too lax punishment of gun law violators.
Troubled people have no respect for weak people in positions of law enforcement. Many cop killers say that the reason they killed a particular officer was because of his lack of professional demeanor (paraphrased) and because of that unprofessionalism they knew they could *take* him.
Anon and others
Yeah, I kinda do mind the high taxes here in CA and that fact that gasoline costs about $0.45 more a gallon than it does elsewhere. But when ti surf is up and its been good the las few days, 3-4 feet and glassy, it makes me glad to be here.
Re: Christian cults who prey on kids away from home for the first time, you include Jews for Jesus. I met the man who started this questionable organization, Marty, aka “Mo” Rosen, a former Jew who was ordained as a baptist minister several decades ago. He told me that any means including lies and deceit including the practice of cult-ike brainwashing are okay to use if there is even the remotest possibility of getting one more Jew to accept jesus. I know exactly what practices they use and why and have worked with local Jewish organizations when J4J decided to target our area for a summer campaign.
This is the good news: they usually distribute between 1-2 million leaflets in a major urban campaign inviting people to contact them/ attend a rally. Of the Jews who do contact them/ attend a rally which is usually around 100 in a 10-day campaign, maybe 40 ask for more information. Of those 40 they maybe get 2-3 who stick around and join up. of those 2-3 none of them are still around in one year. So the return on their investment of printing costs and paper alone is a loser. J4J is mainly a Christian evangelical organization posing as a Jewish one.
I can go into greater detail if anyone is interested.