Texas legislators have continued their battle to add religious training in public schools. The state has a new law that requires that Texas public schools incorporate Bible literacy into the curriculum — though it offers no guidelines or instructions in how to do so.
Various schools are now offering special elective classes on the Bible while others are incorporating Biblical passages into regular classes. This is made all the more difficult, of course, by the separation of Church and State. The legislators did not order literacy on the Qu’ran or Torah.
A litigator might suspect that the lack of instructions is an effort to diminish any vulnerability to a challenge. The optional aspect of course certainly would help in that regard. I have long stated that schools could teach about theology and that such a course could be educational rather than sectarian. It would have to incorporate a wide array of religious texts as well as an understanding of agnostic and atheist views. It is clear that these legislators did not have such a course in mind.
The provision requires that the curriculum include “religious literature, including the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) and New Testament, and its impact on history and literature.” The use of “include” will likely be used to suggest that other faiths could be represented in the classes, though the express reference to the Judeo-Christian text makes it mandatory as opposed to discretionary for other faiths.” It is more specific in this portion of the law:
Sec. 28.011. ELECTIVE COURSES ON THE BIBLE’S HEBREW SCRIPTURES (OLD TESTAMENT) AND NEW TESTAMENT AND THEIR IMPACT ON THE HISTORY AND LITERATURE OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION. (a) A school district may offer to students in grade nine or above:
(1) an elective course on the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) and its impact and an elective course on the New Testament and its impact; or
(2) an elective course that combines the courses described by Subdivision (1).
(b) The purpose of a course under this section is to:
(1) teach students knowledge of biblical content, characters, poetry, and narratives that are prerequisites to understanding contemporary society and culture, including literature, art, music, mores, oratory, and public policy; and
(2) familiarize students with, as applicable:
(A) the contents of the Hebrew Scriptures or New Testament;
(B) the history of the Hebrew Scriptures or New Testament;
(C) the literary style and structure of the Hebrew Scriptures or New Testament; and
(D) the influence of the Hebrew Scriptures or New Testament on law, history, government, literature, art, music, customs, morals, values, and culture.
(c) A student may not be required to use a specific translation as the sole text of the Hebrew Scriptures or New Testament and may use as the basic textbook a different translation of the Hebrew Scriptures or New Testament from that chosen by the board of trustees of the student’s school district or the student’s teacher.
(d) A course offered under this section shall follow applicable law and all federal and state guidelines in maintaining religious neutrality and accommodating the diverse religious views, traditions, and perspectives of students in their school district. A course under this section shall not endorse, favor, or promote, or disfavor or show hostility toward, any particular religion or nonreligious faith or religious perspective. Nothing in this statute is intended to violate any provision of the United States Constitution or federal law, the Texas Constitution or any state law, or any rules or guidelines provided by the United States Department of Education or the Texas Education Agency.
It may not “intend[] to violate any provision of the United States Constitution or federal law” but civil libertarians would beg to differ on the ability of a state to require courses on the Bible.
The University of Texas has created a seminar to teach how to teach Biblical passages. They can go to various sites on how to teach Bible literacy.
Obviously, for civil libertarians, such programs smack of a certain Talibanization of education. It is certainly not as extreme. However, it is highly questionable from a constitutional standpoint to have a legislature order the teaching of a single religious text in an act of sectarian favoritism. It has schools struggling to satisfy the law and hopefully civil libertarian lawyers scrambling to challenge the law.
I will be less polite than Prof. Turley. This latest abuse of the Constitution from our old friend, Texas is disgusting. The separation of Church and State just ended in Texas and the American Taliban is just around the corner. Texas should secede from the Nation for the good of the rest of us. How this will ever pass Constitutional muster is beyond me, but I will leave that question to some of the bigger brains on this site. Suffice it to say that Texas has some explaining to do.
Suffice it to say that Texas has some explaining to do.
********************
Start splaining. Hum, Texas is home to a divisive Southern Baptist convocation. If you ain’t for em you is again em. I have a family friend that does not go to church and has a child that is in theater. The practice could not happen on Sunday but rather on Labor Day.
Maybe you have heard about the controversy of Rent? It could not be performed at the High School but had to be played at SMU. Yeah Baby, way ahead of the times.
Instead of waiting for Texas to voluntarily secede, can’t we just vote to kick them out?
Jay,
When we close the borders no one will be allowed in or out. Should you not wait until W get back and Kay Bailey resigns to run against Perry before we forced to secede? Right Concept, Bad Execution. Oh and we have had our share with Killer Keller.
Sounds like Texas wants school districts to shift a good chunk of their budgets from textbooks and technology to lawyers and litigation.
puzzling 1, September 8, 2009 at 8:37 am
Sounds like Texas wants school districts to shift a good chunk of their budgets from textbooks and technology to lawyers and litigation.
*****************************
From my perspective you make this sound awful and evil. However, cha ching. You have some loser and some winners. School districts are known to pay the bills submitted. Cha Ching.
Texas.
Don’t submit to their jurisdiction. They’ve collectively gone insane. Waaaay ahead of the curve.
Sorry AY. It’s crap like this that makes me write off the whole state – some days even Austin (sorry boys and girls).
Awful and evil is just about right.
It is becoming apparent that the best way to deal with Texas and Texan business is avoidance.
Since the theocratic fascists don’t comprehend anything as having value unless it’s money or has “Jesus Approved! ©” stamped on it, let’s all just make a concerted effort to not do business with or purchase products from Texas based companies and see how well they like that.
Buddha,
Ok, but we keep Rear Adm Bobby Inman and you take the Bushes, the whole lot of them.
I do think that the Ghosts of Austin past will visit you this All Hollowed Eve. Speak Evil of any city in Texas but Austin and the Tri-Delts I tell you. And I will recall they spell which hast been cast.
It’s a deal, but only if we can encase the entire Bush clan in Lucite to prevent their genes from further corrupting the species. I’d hold out for launching the whole lot toward the sun atop I shiny rocket, but hey, that’s just extravagance for the sake of poetic justice.
This deal would have to include non-Texas Bush’s too like that sneering twaddle-head Billy who works for that stupid entertainment show and the ignorant little party girl getting the morning show TV job for her, her . . . why and how exactly did she land a TV job? It certainly wasn’t either brains or skill. And she looks enough like Dad to make me hate her on sight. Good purchase, boys. She’ll last 6 mos. or year once you see her Q scores unless Daddy is underwriting her salary and your ad revenue shortfalls. She’s going to be as popular as dysentery.
But I digress.
It is a deal with the Lucite Proviso.
This is obviously unconstitutional.
However, maybe it could have one benefit before the cease and desist order. If these kids actually read the bible, maybe they would form a more complete picture of Christianity. Personally, I don’t think any of these evangelicals have even read the thing. Their preachers tell them passages, quoted out of context, while ignoring whole other ones.
If you actually read the thing, you would have to conclude that you cannot be Christian and be a capitalist (i.e. have no worldly possessions). That the Jews committed the most horrible acts of genocide against the Canaanites. That the four Gospels completely contradict each other on key points of the myth (sorry, story. Oh sorry, historic timeline lol). Who found the tomb anyway? They are told Mary Magdalene in Sunday school, but each Gospel has a different version (to name just one instance).
Nahhh, on second thought. Any teacher that directed the “students” to any such passages or ideas would be hung on a fence.
AY:
Are Tri-Delts hot in Texas? They seem to be hot everywhere else. The upside down delta is the universal sign for …..
What does this mean? Is it a Texas conspiracy to dominate the male of the species through mind control, as everyone knows we think with our….
Brains are such an important requirement for an education, has the entire state lost theirs?
ROTC and Bible cadets. Ten…hut!.
Buddha,
I was thinking maybe Duct Tape. The main staple of any real red neck tool box. But how much tape would be needed to secure them for at least 11,000 feet. I am sure the G-Force would render them conscienceless, however that does not appear to be a problem thus far.
You take all of the Bushes that are natural born too. I am not sure if this applies to the wifes side of the family.
The only issue I have with duct tape is that it’s hard to make a 100% efficient seal with it. Genes are tiny. I want to minimize contamination. How about we meet in the middle and use fiberglass?
Buddha,
Ok, I was just hoping for incineration upon re-entry. Fiberglass works well. When it get heated up it burns too.
Byron,
Are Tri-Delts hot in Texas? They seem to be hot everywhere else. The upside down delta is the universal sign for …..
*******************************
I always thought that they were HOT. I was never in a Fraternity, but I can assure you that the Sororities I was in, they were all HOT. I have no issue with an upside down delt or a sideways delt.
___________
What does this mean? Is it a Texas conspiracy to dominate the male of the species through mind control, as everyone knows we think with our….
********************
As we age the (most of us) the brain take over, once again.
____________
Brains are such an important requirement for an education, has the entire state lost theirs?
*********************
Well W went to an Ivy League School, you tell me.
At least the federal judges are not elected in Texas, like the state judges are.
The 5th Circuit does not allow “primarily religious” situations which are mixed in with secular considerations:
http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/04/04-20667-CV0.wpd.pdf
I have an additional section for the new law in Texas:
- Discuss how the state has used religion to manipulate the populace since the time of Christ;
- Discuss Julius Caesar and his coronation as pontifex maximus, head of church and state;
- Discuss the consolidation of power under Constantine in the name of Christianity in 325 AD;
- Discuss the Catholic church’s 300 year retroactive naming of pope’s back to the time of Christ, when indeed there was no such institution historically;
- Discuss the history of the King James Bible, the translation process (60 committees) and how the King had language that challenged the state’s power scrubbed from original text and had concepts bolstered that enforced his belief in the divine right of kings, something King James fervently advocated and wrote about in his work, The Trew Law of Free Monarchies.
I mean, if we’re going to learn about the BIBLE, let’s really learn. Not some “preferred” history.
I also wonder how Christians reconcile that fact that the man who put the fist Bible together, in any formal sort of way, Constantine, and who also served as pope, was also a notorious homosexual. Did he go to heaven? Hmmm?
George They won’t be discussing the history of the Catholic Church because Catholics aren’t true Christians in Texas.
George,
This would require too much thought. Don’t you know according to some Texans. Jesus spoke English.
Swarthmore mom – Very good point! Talk about cognitive dissonance, though! How in the world you can separate Christianity , in general, from the Catholic Church, especially historically, is beyond me. Really, it is impossible. Historically, they were married like George and Gracie.
Anonymously Yours – Jesus spoke the King’s English, huh? LOL! Maybe Texans should stick to BBQ and country music, both things they do very well. Presidents, not so much!
Rafflaw.
May I suggest the terms “Christian Taliban” and “christofascist”.
This latest absurdity from Texas is amusing for at least three reasons. First, I suspect that few, if any, high school teachers are qualified to teach the impact of the bible on “law, history, government, literature, art, music, customs, morals, values and culture.” Second, the presence of multiple translations in the classroom is guaranteed to create interpretive bedlam. Third, the statute’s stated intent to comply with statutory and constitutional limitations simply highlights its facial unconstitutionality.
Buddah.
“Theocratic fascists” is good too. Someone should compile a glossary of sarcastic terms to describe these people.
Rafflaw, Buddah.
I also like:-
“God bothering moralizing humbug”;
“woman hating fetus fetishists”;
and
“Hypochristians who oppose abortion but support the death penalty”.
whooliebacon,
At least they’d be guaranteed jobs with Blackwater!
Good stuff from everyone!! LOL and only too true.
This is breathtaking stuff. Replacing most of the states teachers and legislators with lawyers will be fun to watch…The Supreme Court arguments will be even more of a belly-buster to glare at and rupture a gut laughing ….
Unfortunately, replacing all the teachers and legislators with lawyers gets you the same people just in different jobs so the cycle of stupidity and blatant ignorance perpetuates itself..
I have no problem whatsoever with it. I do wish they would teach the companion course too–Mythology of the World. I would start with the Mesopotamians and work my way forward. I think learning that the Flood Story cuts across many religions, and that Jonah sure sounds like Jason from Greek mythology and like Gilamesh from Mesopotamian mythology to most educated folks would be instructive. Jesus paralelling Horace from Egyptian mythology would really get the cows mooing in Dallas, too. Best be careful what you wish for, truth has a nasty way of seeping out from religious indoctrination. What did we say about that “plastic Jesus” again?
Can they teach the bible if they do it as a history lesson or one of the books that one should read to understand why our civilization has evolved as it has?
In that case cant they just teach the Torah and the Bible? Would it then be illegal if it was not used to support one religion or another? Can they say this is strictly an intellectual tool, we do not support any religion in our state?
Also isn’t the the 1st amendment for the federal government to prevent the establishment of a national religion? They were afraid of what had happened in England and also at the beginning of the colonies there was much in-fighting due to various religious sects.
I don’t agree with teaching the bible in public schools for the purpose of religious indoctrination but it is one of the books that should be read as part of an understanding of Western Civilization. I also think Karl Marx should be read for the same reason.
If you say you cannot teach the bible cant the case be made that you cant teach other works that some people may disagree with?
Mespo727272:
Very nice turn of phrase Gilamesh for Gilgamesh, in keeping with a southwestern theme. If the lizard were a mesopotamian would it be a gilgamonster?
Byron and Mespo,
I’m sorry, but there is no way a school in the heart of Fundementalist Christian territory could get away with comparing the Bible to other historical texts.
There is no way this is anything other than people working under the goal of “making America a Christian nation again.” Believe me, I sat in on strategy sessions on how we (the youth of several area churches and our parents) could get God back in the class room. This is straight out of that playbook.
Gyges:
if that is the case then it should be prohibited. Although you could have a civil war what with all of the different fundamentalist Church’s out there. It would be a wild west show, the church of the immaculate reception vs. the church of restrained flatulence vs the evangelical church of the turtle vs who knows what.
There would be stasis as they all competed for their particular view of Christianity. So maybe that is a reason to give them what they want and watch them implode.
The best evidence of the actual intent of the board will be a combination of the minutes of the meetings, transcripts of the hearings, testimony regarding communications among the members and the board’s history of previous efforts to introduce religion into the curriculum. I’m sure there is a mass of good stuff for enterprising lawyers.
What a dazzling display of ignorance. Many of these writers sound like college students and I would expect more.
Can you say “document”? A real student will research documented history and locate such as:
The First Charter of Virginia in 1606;
The Mayflower Compact written in 1620 which was the predecessor to colonization efforts in the U.S.;
The Fundamental Orders of Connecticut of 1639 ;
The Massachusetts Body of Liberties was the first code of laws established in New England (1641);
The U.S Declaration of Independence, 1776;
the Constitution of the State of Texas;
and the documentation goes on and on and on.
Now you can look at any historical document you want to review and you are not likely to find any Texas history referring to any God other than from a Christian perspective. (the local indians didn’t create documents in the formative stages of Texas or the U.S.)
Can you children say “History”? Can you say “social development”?
Now we have truth in lending laws, truth in advertising, truth in SEC disclosure, etc., etc., etc. Why not have truth in education? Or does any subjective opinion outweigh the facts?
In order to be fair and balanced, I propose a companion seminar by Christopher Hitchens
rafflaw re: separation of church and state, in schools
Can the state go into any business it wants to? Probaby not making pizza. Should we separate church and state by having the state get out of education?
I can’t say that I advocate that, but all the same, why?
Dan,
Nobody likes a trouble maker.
I do, of course. But you can’t go by me. I have a fetish for watching fundamentalists of any stripe spontaneously combust.
And while your idea may be balanced, I’m thinking turning Chris on them in all his red nosed atheistic argumentative glory might not be fair. Funny, but not fair at all.
Anonymously Re: Texas is home to a divisive Southern Baptist
“Divisive” is spin, ad hominem.
Is your position, on Rent, “content based” or “content neutral”?
“Very nice turn of phrase Gilamesh for Gilgamesh, in keeping with a southwestern theme.”
******************
Sorry, Byron, but it was inadvertent hilarity.
Pragmatist:
All those are good references but what is your point? Federal money goes to Texas schools. If Texas wants to put the bible in their public school system let them get off the public dole. Then they can do what ever the good people of Texas want to do.
You take the sovereign’s money you play the tune he wants.
The Texas legislature seems to have set out quite a curriculum for its schools. Why is the “Required Curriculum” split into “foundation curriculum” and “enrichment curriculum” in Sec 28.002?
The courses are mandatory for the schools to offer, but optional for the students to take.
1. Would one bible class for 11th graders meet the requirement?
2. Would a Buddhist offering for 10th graders be ok?
3. Would atheism be considered religious for the purposes of this section?
Byron RE: Federal money goes to Texas schools.
I thought that most education money was local, in fact, aren’t schools supported mostly by real estate tax in each school?
If the state can participate in education it must be because there is a clear public purpose. If there is a clear public purpose, then, I feel, that education becomes a right. If it is a right, then there is a requirement for equal protection. That duty falls on the state, not the school district, so funding by school district is unconstitutional, violating not only Brown v Board, but Plessy v Ferguson.
Martin:
Supposedly but states give money to local areas for budget shortfalls. The point is Texas takes federal money so the feds can tell them what to do.
Personally I would like to see some competition to the public school system but most people cannot afford to send their children to private schools.
If you think Texas is bad check out Arkansas. Who comes if first or last is like Prof. Turley’s post “did he win” …
http://blogdredd.blogspot.com/2009/09/pop-cap-for-jesus-and-justice.html
Wow! This thread has really grown since I left for work this morning. Unfortunately, I still no reason to keep Texas in the Union. Letting them leave or kicking them out would be a win-win for the rest of us. We would save Federal monies now sent to Texas and we would also save the headaches of having to try to make sense out of Texas law.
rafflaw:
“I still no reason to keep Texas in the Union.”
**************************
There is some value in keeping them in just to pi** them off, or simply for our amusement, wouldn’t you say?
lol
Yeah, what mespo said.
Raff,
I was going to say “Celis White” but that’s brewed in Michigan now, so none that I can think of.