GOP Rep. Joe Wilson Calls the President a Liar During Address to Congress

225px-Joe_Wilson,_official_photo_portrait,_color In one of the most extraordinary breaches of congressional etiquette in the history of presidential addresses to Congress, Rep. Joe Wilson (R., S.C.) screamed at President Barack Obama last night “You lie” during his speech on health care. In this video, you can see the surprise on Pelosi’s face who appears honestly and legitimately shocked.

The President had just declared that it is not true that the health plan would cover illegal immigrants and the President immediately looked over to Wilson who can be heard clearly screaming “You lie.”

In fact, Section 246 of the law states:


Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for
affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully
present in the United States.

Wilson represents the second district in South Carolina. His actual name is Addison Graves Wilson, Sr. but goes by Joe. He was an aide to Sen. Strom Thurmond. He is best known to many citizens for his crusade against online poker. However, he has also supported such worthy projects as the Senator Paul Simon Water for the Poor Act of 2005, legislation that made safe water and sanitation an objective of U.S. assistance to developing countries.

Within minutes, conservative groups rallied to defend Wilson and this video defense was released calling Obama a Liar.

Wilson apologized after the speech and insisted that the statement was “spontaneous“. He released a statement of contrition and called the White House:

“This evening, I let my emotions get the best of me when listening to the president’s remarks regarding the coverage of illegal immigrants in the health care bill. While I disagree with the president’s statement, my comments were inappropriate and regrettable. I extend sincere apologies to the president for this lack of civility.”

Ironically, this is only the latest live mike problem this week for Republicans, here.

It is not that Dems cannot show bad form, but the worst breach of civility came when they booed President Bush in 2005, which is mild in comparison:

This is still far better than what English Prime Ministers have to put up with on a regular basis:

For the full story, click here.

98 thoughts on “GOP Rep. Joe Wilson Calls the President a Liar During Address to Congress

  1. A Brief History of Communism, from Race Mixing to the Public Option
    By: Phoenix Woman Wednesday September 9, 2009 9:16 pm

    This bit of hypocrisy shouldn’t surprise anyone:

    A Texas school which refused to air President Barack Obama’s live classroom address is planning to bus students to see the president.

    Did school officials reverse course after realizing Obama’s speech wasn’t political, as conservatives had claimed?

    Nope. They’re sending fifth graders to see another president: former President George W. Bush, and his wife, Laura. Bush is speaking alongside several Dallas Cowboys players and prominent Texas business leaders.

  2. I thought that it would be nice to see what the home front was saying on this matter:

    Lawmakers denounce ‘You lie’ outburst at Obama
    Democrats and Republicans alike are denouncing Rep. Joe Wilson for shouting “You lie” at President Barack Obama during his speech to Congress, an extraordinary breach of decorum for which the South Carolina Republican swiftly apologized.

  3. If I were another Congressman, I’d be waiting for this guy when he left the Capitol that evening and I’d teach him a thing or two about respect. Seriously though, this only emphasizes how immature and broken our entire government is. The GOP acts like children and the Dems couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag. It is no wonder our country is so screwed up.

  4. The guy is an idiot and he had his moment to show the world that he is an idiot. But, he had alot of company last night during the speech because the Republicans were making noise all night and holding up and waving their “plan” or bill. I am a firm believer in Free Speech so I will not join the chorus asking for a censure of this mental giant. He got his punishment by looking like a fool on national TV.

  5. Mespo:

    On behalf of the good people who live at Jackass, Arizona, I must correct the record so not to cast questions over the denizens of Jackass. I am not sure what people of Jackass called people who act like . . . a male donkey but I am pretty sure it is not jackass. Please keep this in mind in any further accusations that a politician is a citizen of this god-fearing, donkey-respecting community.

  6. Don’t they do this type of thing in Parliament?

    I say let them figuratively kill each other and that way they cant make mischief on us.

  7. Obama is doing a horrible job so far. Letting yourselves get distracted because of one emotional outburst of a frustrated Wilson does not change Obama’s performance.

    34 Czars? None vetted? None voted into power? The Obama bailout is tremendously less successful than Obama’s own team predicted. I have the chart of Obama’s economic predictions for what would happen with and sans bailout. Sadly Obama wildly underestimated the reality of the situation.

    This man who cannot see three months into the future with even a +/- 10% degree of accuracy…knows the math behind healthcare savings? He said that even a savings of 1/10th of 1% would save us 4 trillion dollars. What would an increase of 1/10th of 1% cost us then? Obama claims that the program will be only 900 billion dollars and much of that money would come from reducing inefficiencies in Medicare. So we have one government program that has 100’s of billions of dollars of waste…that you are going to feed into an even larger government program that will be the first government program EVER to have none?

    Sorry if I do not believe that load of crap.

  8. Rep. Joe Wilson is nothing more than a coward. He attempted to throw a Verbal Shoe directly at President Obama during his address to congress. Wilson is a disgrace to himself, his family, and to the state of South Carolina. His political ambition has peaked. He could never be anything more than a representative. He will never be a president or vice president. Frankly, his IQ is much too low to command such a position. This planned republican Verbal Shoe throwing (“you lie”)was just that, a planned attack. I would not be suprissed if Wilson had pulled out a gun to assasinate President Obama. I strongly suggest that the Secret Service closely monitor the activity of this idiot. He should not be in the immediate area of the president without being closely supervised and monitored by the Secret Service. I believe that Wilson is a threat to the safety and security of President Obama. Wilson should be impeached immediately or forced to resign. Freedom of speech is one thing, but blatant disrespect to President Obama during a major speech is another thing. I have no respect for Wilson.

  9. Adam:

    one Czar or 34, Obama is only acting on what other presidents have done. Who created this Czar nonsense anyway? I think it might have been Reagan with his Drug Czar. Obama is just taking advantage of existing traditions.

    Maybe next time a republican wants to create an extra-governmental authority or bail-out a failing company with tax payer dollars they will have enough sense to look down the road, oh and did I mention the Patriot Act? (Aka the Sometime in the future Neo-Gestapo creation act of 2001)

  10. Sholts you should probably kill Wilson yourself. Don’t use a gun though as that is way too Republican…cut his throat and watch him bleed out.

    Just like Obama is doing to America.

  11. Byron please do mention the Patriot Act! I was NEVER for it…you ASSume I am a Republican to your error.

    The Patriot Act isn’t going away…no. Obama is fully behind it.

  12. ADAM:

    Poor, poor, Adam. Are you related to Wilson? You all sound and think alike. Possible twins? You seem to be doing a good job yourself with character assasination. No other weapon required!The truth hurts/ Doesn’t it?

  13. The problem with most politicians is they have no clue as to what they are doing. As a person that has worked in and around the legislature inside and out for the better part of 25 years, most are only as smart as the people that work for them. Every party has its own Jester by designation or attrition. Some are just so stupid you wonder how they got elected much less a drivers licenses.

    You want to see where people really get smart work on Redistricting. These fools become your best friends.

  14. mespo & JT,


    Next time I’m in Arizona, I’m buying at least one souvenir T-shirt.


    I didn’t see you bitching when Bush was appointing his Czar’s (or Bush I or Reagan). The President can appoint people to jobs, some require Congressional approval and some don’t. Get over it. Grow up.

    The total current cost of invading a country that didn’t attack so Rotten Dick & George’s family and friends could make private profits is about 980 trillion dollar. Here, let me help you with that . . .


    The Bugatti Veryon is the most expensive sports car in the world. It goes in excess of 200 mph (easily) and has a $10,000 crystal clock in the dash. It costs more than some people earn in a life time at $1.2 million. You could but 816,667 for the cost of the Iraq invasion AS OF TODAY.

    The average new home in the U.S. costs $232,100. For the Iraq money, you could have bought 4,222,318 houses. Those would be NICE houses too as that’s the median price.

    The average elementary school teacher makes $49,000/year. You could have hired 20,000 teachers.

    For a war that EVERY analyst worth a damn from the CIA to the War College said was victory unattainable in that particular theater. Every cogent analysis predicted loss or at best being mired down in a huge boondoogle like we are right now. Bush and the Neocons did this instead of attacking those who did attack us, the Saudis – who we could have stomped the living crap out of and been home in 3 months. But nooooooo, couldn’t attack George and Dick’s business partners now could we? Bullshit. Now “we” (as in the Neocon criminal traitors I want to see swinging in the breeze) spent all our money on propping up Exxon, Halliburton and the rest of the Big Oil fascists while lining their greedy pockets. And in this whole process, they mananged to destroy almost all the good will and moral authority this country once had with allies and foes alike along with our economy. Good job! So let’s go back to the money . . .


    If don’t think that amount of money wouldn’t have rebuilt our infrastructure, made our schools the envy of the world, and provided 1st class world class health care for every single American? You’re a moron.

    Grow up and admit you just don’t like him because he’s black. You want to attack him? How about starting with his not keeping his promise to restore the Constitution and the rule of law and prosecute the Bush Administrations for their crimes? Hm? How about that? What? That’d put the guys you back in prison? Just what I thought.

    Next time ask your mom before you use the computer to post nonsense.

  15. Adam:

    I did not assume you were a republican, I am merely stating that republicans are as guilty as democrats. In some ways more so because they seem to create all this crap.

  16. Sholts: really? That was your “comeback”?

    9 trillion dollars of debt hurts. losing another 4 billion dollars EVERY SINGLE DAY to national debt hurts. China owning the vast majority of our debt hurts. The dollar tanking against all the other major currencies…hurts. 9.7% unemployment and rising…hurts.

    You and Wilson can become gay lovers…or kill each other in a death match for all I care. I want the topics that actually effect each and everyone of us directly…to be addressed.

  17. And 817 Veryon’s

    I’m having a calculator rebellion! Any who, do the math.

    Now I’m going to reboot and figure out why my calc is misplacing decimal points.

  18. I was talking to a former marine officer at dinner last night and he was told to read an examination of the war and the reason for fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan prior to deployment. I took away from his synopsis that we are fighting to prevent the Saudi Royal family from loosing power. The Caliphate that Osama wanted to create would have destroyed the Royal family. If my interpretaion is accurate we are a bunch of chumps. We could have invaded SA and created our own “Oiliphate” for far less blood and treasure and made money.

  19. Buddha is laughing:

    You probably didn’t see me because I WAS NOT HERE! I was bitching then too.

    980 trillion dollars? What? There is fuzzy math and then there is completely made up shit. That falls under completely made up shit.

    Our ENTIRE GDP annually is only about 14 trillion dollars.

    Why didn’t you just make up a new number and atleast be creative? Like 83 bajeebus dollars?

  20. Byron (and jenx for that matter),

    It’s nice to have some more self-identifying Republicans with good sense around here. I think FFLEO was getting lonely.

  21. Adam,

    I didn’t make up the number. Use Google, nitwit. Sooooooooo why don’t you quit making up that your not a Neocon troll, mmmmm k?

  22. ADAM:

    This mess did not start on Obama’s watch. It started long before Obama. You are spitting out those figures that started on BUSH watch. Do you understand that? Obama is trying to correct past administrations mistakes. The man has a lot of stuff on his plate. And you and many others like you won’t give him the respect and opportunity to solve the problems that others are responsible for. When things heat up you resort to name calling. I am not concern with your partner Wilson or your preferance for men or women. Than’s your business, not mine.

  23. Or do you want to attack Obama on more nonsense instead of the practical and concrete failures he’s making instead of pimping your Neocon crap. You think being a prognosticator is the judge of a man’s credibility? How about “We’ll be greeted as liberators.”? Yeah, he can’t see the future perfectly, but at least he’s not lying about it to make money for himself.

  24. Buddha:

    9.8×10^12/1.2×10^6 = 8.167×10^6 it would be 8.2 million Buccatis not 817 and that is with 9.8 trillion.

    But dont you mean 980,000,000,000 (980 billion?) or 9.8 trillion? (9,800,000,000,000)

  25. Byron,

    Like I said, my calc program (this is what I get for using a soft calc instead of a hardwired one) is acting really weird. I may have to reinstall because it’s spitting out other craziness this AM too.

  26. If you guys cannot do basic math…how am I to trust your opinions on topics that require the ability to do basic math?

    I’ll leave with the kool aid drinkers saying “there goes another neo-con racist”

  27. ADAM:

    Are you still doing research on the Internet in order to formulate a response to me? Go from what you know and not from what someone else has written.

  28. Buddha,

    Interesting facts.

    Everyone — including the President — keep talking about how much health care is going to cost, and how we MUST “pay for it.”

    What makes me sick is that there was no willing to stand up and make the same statements about Iraq and Afghanistan. George Bush got his wars — and his illegal entry into Iraq – at full expense to taxpayers, even giving his Blackwater and other defense contractor buddies great contracts.

    Now, for average Americans with cancer and heart disease, and whatever else, and no insurance, they are losing their homes and declaring bankruptcy, in the thousands every week, because of medical bills.

    Our government doesn’t care about us, the citizenry, except as an end to THEIR financial and power means.

  29. Or I could quit being lazy and use a pencil and paper. :D

    Calculators can be a horrible crutch. As a practical matter, I should stay in better practice with the pencil, but years of scholastic acceptance of the machines may have ruined me already. lol

  30. Adam,

    You can’t do basic logic. So what’s your point? Other than on your head, Mr. Apologist Nonsensical Smear Tactic Neocon Troll.

  31. It also appears that you’re not so good at basic math either I might point out. Or else you’d realize you’re outnumbered here.

  32. Someone once said to me this statement that I believe to be very very true. The Democratic party is had bad ideas, while the Republican party has no ideas. Nobody is a winner in todays government. I believe that Sen. Wilson was %100 correct however he shouldn’t have had that little outburst. But seriously if we as a nation almost impeach a president for lying to the country about sexual affairs, shouldn’t we feel the same about Obama lying to us about EVERYTHING and having absolutely no clue about what the future holds with or wthout all of his handouts and bailouts and bleeding heart BS.

  33. There is no doubt Joe Wilson was disrespectful and unprofessional, but what makes a man yell that to the President of the United States? The one thing President Obama is not talking about is the cost to you and I for a public option. Also, let’s be clear that health care is a right and anyone can get treatment, but you have to pay for it like almost everything else in this country. HEALTH INSURANCE however is a privilage not a right and the majority of the people that will benefit from a public option are the people that are already making out on the loop holes in the welfare programs. I was in a grocery store the other day and watch a young man pay for his items with food stamps and then jump in his Cadillac SUV and drive away, Now you tell me how fair that is to the american people?
    We need to focus on the national debt and decreasing it before we decide to start a program that will add billions to it. The funny thing is so many people are focused on change that they don’t even realize the cost. Taxes at some point are going to go up because the money has to get paid back some how and we are not talking about a couple dollar increase in are pay check. It will be alot more and then everyone will be mad about that, but never realize they did it to themselves.

  34. CHRIS god bless you for understanding the difference in health care and health insurance!!!!!!!!!!! I wish Obama knew the difference!

  35. makinsnce,

    Start talking about Obama lying once the whole Bush Cheny crime spree is prosecuted. Until then, put a sock in it about lying, ace. No lie Obama has told nearly equals the lies Bush used to lead this country to an illegal war so grow up. The Neocon GOP are the instigators and engineers of this invasion/occupation and the destruction of our economy, not Obama. It’s not as if your boys have done a better job – except in destroying this country for their personal profit.

  36. Let me guess you are sittinig home doing nothing reaping the bennifets of the bleeding heart liberal society. It is misguided people like you who have driven this country to the situaton it is in now.

  37. The cost of health care? How are we going to pay for it?

    Give me a BREAK!

    What about the illegal Iraq War? Should have someone stood up on the house floor and called Bush a liar? Because George W. Bush was most certainly a LIAR with no code and no honor.

  38. I agree with Adam about one thing…Buddha doesn’t have a clue about numbers if he is saying 980 trillion and says look it up on Google. That would be 70 times our National GDP. Where did the money come from to line the pockets of all these NEOCONS he talks about? I know, it miraculously appeared the same way the money for the “not so stimulating” stimulus bill and healthcare reform bill will appear…out of our children’s and their children’s pockets. As for Sholts, he is correct about saying the president is trying to correct problems that occurred during other administrations; however, he needs to be sure to include congress in that statement. Also don’t just stop with Reagan but go all the way back to FDR. I wonder if anyone can answer these questions…Why is it okay for the president to go into congress and call some of them liars…where’s his respect for them or this country? Name one government run agency/program that has ever saved $1.00? All of you need to quit towing the party line and start thinking for yourself.

  39. Representative Joe Wilson should resign for his inappropiate action towards the President of the United States of America. Perhaps a long suspension.

  40. It dosen’t matter who lied. If you are the president of the united states and you lie you should be called out Democrat or Republican.

  41. Health care is an activity designed to prolong and improve the quality of life.

    Health insurance is an industry. It is also an oxymoron. They’re supposed to pay for your health care . . . unless it cuts into their profits. See, as a corporation, they are interested only in collecting premiums and paying out dividends to shareholders, not actually caring for the ill. It’s not in their best interests to be looking out for your best interests despite that’s exactly what they are being paid premiums for. Caring for the ill eats away their profits. Death panels? We already have them. They are called insurance companies. And every day some dies because they were denied coverage because it was too expensive based usually on how much premium the company has collected from said patient, if it’s not enough of a bribe to make the insurance thugs happy, you get to die. The decision is made by a goddamn bean counter and not a doctor who has actually seen the patient and most certainly not made by the patient themself.

    I’m sure glad Obama knows the difference between an activity and a legal fiction designed to make money like a corporation, because neither of you clowns do.

  42. Thats beside the point.

    Tell me why I work hard everyday to make a lving and I have had to save every penny I can to take my son on a 3 day mini vacation to see Thomas the Train. While on the otherhand my wifes sister sits around the house all day doing nothing and gets food stamps, rent assistance, educational assistance, day care cost allowance, and gas cards, yet she just got back from a 4 day vacation in Virginia Beach with her deadbeat boyfriend and son. How is that right. Look at your next paystub (If you have a job) look at how much you pay out then watch the mexican in front of you at the grocery store buying steaks and seafood with food stamps. Yea thats the way America lets show people thats its much better not to work hard and just depend on everyone else.

  43. makinsnce,

    Let me guess, you’re an unemployed redneck living in your mom’s basement? How can you type with the caked on Cheeto’s dust and Spam fat on your fingers?

    I employ seven people. They are busy doing my bidding right now.

    I’m also much much better at being insulting than you. In fact, when it comes to that I may even be the Alpha around here. So hows about you stick to the facts.

  44. Hummmmm NO!

    I was not trying to be insulting. I am mearly trying to point out the facts. And by the way I am A full time firefighter/ Paramedic and I have a second job working in marine constrruction. I Own my own home and I am raising a son who I hope doesen’t have to go through this mess later in life.

  45. So back to my 10:35 comment. Anyone have an answer on why this crap is happening. I thnk Sen. Wilson might have something to shout out about it.

  46. This whole thing is just another huge bank account for both political parties to use. Medicare,medicaid and social security are going broke because of both parties dipping into it for decades. This health care plan is made up for the politicians to have a bigger pot of money to use for their pet projects. It’s called usury, in which all americans will be enslaved to. Just as we are enslaved by the FED ( central bank ). Amazing how the government was against the mafia but use the same tactics, kinda like speaking from both sides of mouth wouldn’t you say ? I am for LIBERTY. I don’t need government to tell me how to live, what I should eat GMO, Monsanto made foods. Fat kids, diabetes. Vaccinations,flu shots, psychotropic drugs. Asmatha, autism,suicide,more depression. Public schools, How high are drop-out rates 50-60% in places like detroit. Anyone that would put their kids in public schools has to be a complete idiot. Here’s a clue… even government workers don’t put their kids in public schools. Here’s another one government workers won’t be in the health care system that all the other sheep will be in. Be scared, be very scared.

  47. When I saw that the Prof. had posted an article about this rube my first thought was, “Oh great, there’s going to be some angry trolls who try to justify this by pointing out what they don’t like about the President.”

    Glad to see I’m still psychic.

  48. makinsnce,

    Take it up with your sister.

    Most people on assistance can’t do that.

    Did it ever occur to you that the deadbeat or your sister might have an illegal income stream? Hm? Because most people on food stamps can barely leave the house to go to work (such as they have) much less go on vacation.

    Your error is generalization from the specific to the general based on anecdotal evidence and it shows you don’t know enough people on assistance to have an accurate picture of the average and not the specifics you get to see up close in your life.

    If you want to know why it’s so hard for you to make things work, I’d be looking at the constant push for deregulation in every industry (usually led by the GOP) that could afford the graft to go to K St. and buy the right to write the very legislation meant to stop their being abusive. Combine that with tax cuts for the rich while shifting the burden downward. There is absolutely no difference between “trickle down” and “pissed on”. Combine that with systemic allowance of avoiding paying corporate income taxes that most corporations just love because it allows them to not shoulder their share of the burden so they can siphon off that money into their pockets and/or off shore.

    You’d understand the need to regulate business heavily if you knew anything at all about the causes of the Great Depression. Regulation was a response to a wild west environment that created the crash. Removing it was the GOP’s idea and bailiwick and has been since Reagan. Because at their core, the Neocons, they are fascists. And quite simply fascists need to die. Next to theocracy, fascism is the worst form of governance ever imagined by man. But fascism is EXACTLY what coming to America with this case: Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission.

    You’re bitching at the janitor coming to fix the mess, not the asshats who made the mess.

    Don’t get me wrong, there’s plenty Obama is doing wrong – he’s not doing what I voted for him for for a fact but I was a Kucinich man. You’re shooting at the wrong target.

  49. Joe Wilson was the only one who told the truth! Thanks Joe. Obama and his marxist counterparts are the biggest liars, anti-american bunch of chicago thugs ever in the history of the U.S. He is nothing but a bully, who talks down to Americans, some Americans don’t mind being treated like children but most Americans resent it. If Americans can’t see that his policies are communist, marxist, they are blind and frankly, stupid. BO is the worse president and he is a shame to America, he’ll be out in 12! Thank God.

  50. Not to keep beating a dead horse buddha, but YOUR site shows a number that reads approximately 908 billion with a “B” not a “T”. Obviously you are much better at insulting people than reading…maybe that could be because ignorance leads to inflammatory remarks. Makinsnce and George are right about insurance not being a right but a privelege. I have personally witnessed people turn down excellent insurance coverage for $40 a month because they could go on Medicaid or thought they were too young and healthy to need the coverage. If healthcare reform is so necessary to the american people, why do they feel the need to include illegal immigrants in their figures of uninsured…bogus number by the way. Also, why did the democrats not allow some way of checking a person’s residency before allowing them access to “Affordability Credits”. This is just another liberal way of saying illegal immigrants should have access to healthcare paid by the american people…same way they do education.

  51. Representative Joe Wilson is my new hero.


    It was the best part of Obama’s long boring speech!

    I may send him a campaign contribution for speaking up and pointing out Obama’s lies….even though I don’t live in his state!


    House Judiciary Committee Ranking Member Lamar Smith said:

    “The American people are more intelligent than the President gives them credit for. They understand that simply saying illegal immigrants can’t participate without providing verification is like putting a speed-limit sign on a road, then setting a policy that prohibits police from patrolling the road; it won’t stop speeders, and this bill won’t stop illegal immigrants from benefitting.”

  52. I’m so mad…I could throw my shoe at that Wilson guy…ooooh! Actually this is a non-issue, even though it probably does break with Congressional etiquette and decorum. But I guess that only applies to NORMAL people, Wilson’s above that…or below that as the case may be. What a dope.

  53. Wilson FAN 1, September 10, 2009 at 11:16 am

    Representative Joe Wilson is my new hero.


    It was the best part of Obama’s long boring speech!

    I may send him a campaign contribution for speaking up and pointing out Obama’s lies….even though I don’t live in his state!


    House Judiciary Committee Ranking Member Lamar Smith said:

    “The American people are more intelligent than the President gives them credit for.
    Are you sure that you have the correct Presidential Administration? Remember that are you smarter than a 5th Grader came out while W was president?

  54. The man used his right of freedom of speech…good for him. He spoke up for the American people – someone should b/c Obama doesn’t listen. He’s all about big-government…we are slowly losing our rights as a free country and people are too caught up in “Obama, our celebrity President” to even realize it. How often do you speak from your emotions…just like we all are RIGHT now on this blog – Joe Wilson spoke up for what he KNEW was the truth. Let it go, people…he spoke out like any American would do. The President deserves as much respect as the rest of us…he can handle a little opposition, he’s a “big boy” – or at least we hope so since he IS the head of our country

  55. JT:

    “Please keep this in mind in any further accusations that a politician is a citizen of this god-fearing, donkey-respecting community:


    Ok, ok, correction to the correction noted:

    Joe Wilson (Lower Than a Jackass, S.C.)

  56. I haven’t had coffee today, I explained my software issues, but if you want to just act like a dick I’ll be glad to oblige and treat you like one.

    The math STILL doesn’t work out in your favor, trillions or billions. Or does that not get through that thick skull, McFly? It’s still enough money to grant 1st class coverage to every citizen. Non-citizens? Yeah, they shouldn’t be included as they don’t pay taxes, but once again, you are not addressing the core issue of insurance companies and the money they literally steal from being used in ACTUAL health care, the activity, and the money that they “take” as profits. Once again you’re showing you are too stupid to seperate an activity necessary for a good life for all vs. a corporate endeavor NOT necessary. So you’re either 1) an total moron or 2) a fascist co-conspirator with some vested interest in not seeing the systemic inefficiency that insurance companies add (while adding ZERO value) removed so that money now being spent on executive spa retreats and meetings in the Bahamas could be spent on, what’s that? Duh . . . ACTUALLY TRYING TO HEAL PEOPLE.

    For a paramedic, someone with medical training? You must be pretty damn stupid not to see what’s wrong with that picture. How about next time you’re on a call, go in an ambulance with no supplies and see how that works for you. I know for a fact if a paramedic as dumb as you showed up I’d opt for walking to the hospital.

    Since you’ve proven you don’t want to take your sister to task but would rather act like a propsganda spewing GOP finger pointing troll and return to “Democrats Democrats Democrats”, that’s how you’ll be treated here – like any other propaganda troll. Your assumption is that I’m a Democrat or that I support EITHER party. It’s a very very bad assumption.


    Because you are way out of the shallow end of the pool, sport.

  57. Let It Go,

    Now if you include the number of independent contractors that were used, actually the number of Federal Employees increased during the Reagan years.

    If you take the number of people who are no longer eligible for Unemployment Insurance and the number of people that were or self employed, then the actual numbers would increase as well.

    A fool and his number soon divide the house.

  58. Sorry, that should have been directed at skew.

    Mutlitasking again. We are having multiple technical issues this morning so I think I’m going to stop chatting and address those because they are becoming and increasing distraction.


  59. Buddha obviously has no clue about insurance companies or the way they are operate. Let’s use your home as a patient…your pipes clog up and you call a plumber, the doctor, to fix the problem (treat the illness). You tell the plumber that you have insurance and want him to bill the insurance company instead of paying the $100 bill yourself. So the plumber bills the insurance company and they say wait a minute, the definition of insurance is to protect the person against a catastophic loss to their home, not to pay for every little problem that needs to be fixed. If you want me to add that coverage, it will cost you additional. The same goes for health insurance, we want the insurance company to pay for everything while we pay little to nothing. Sure there are companies that operate illegally and there are regulations to catch them and put them out of business. No insurance company can deny treatment to an insured based upon an individual’s health condition. Doctors and hospitals deny treatment based on payment…that is where true reform needs to start.

  60. 980 billion is a lot of money. lets say health care costs for a private premium are 1,200 per month that would be 14,400 per year or 1.4×10^4
    980 billion is 9.8×10^11

    so 9.8×10^11/1.4×10^4 = 6.8×10^7 people that could have been covered, that is 68 million people.

    Bridges are only around 20 million for bread and butter ones so that would be 49,000 bridges or what about waste water treatment plants lets say about 75 million so we could have 13,067 of those or what about new refineries lets say 3 billion so that would be 327 new refineries or at 14 billion for a Nuclear Reactor we could build 70 of them! These would be jobs that would actually benefit our economy and give us new infrastructure and help reduce dependence on foreign oil and lower electricity costs. So that was the cost of going to war with a bunch of 12th century barbarians to protect 12th century barbarians.

    The more I think about this the madder I get. We bailed Saudi Arabia’s royal family out of the fire and destroyed our own economy. I hope all you compassionate conservatives are happy now, you stupid c-suckers.

  61. On the other hand, Skew, I want the insurance companies put out of business entirely. Defending the insurance industry is very much like saying the Wall St bankers, mortgage brokers and the absence of a strong federal government which together caused the near collapse of the US and potentially the world economy, were just doing their regular jobs.

  62. I agree with Byron that 908 billion could have been spent better. But let’s take a further look at what could have been purchased and leave out the fact that conservative, moderate and liberal c-suckers voted to go war.

    68 million people with health insurance coverage. That’s only for one year so you need to spend the same amount every year to do any good. Waste-water treatment plants are a good thing and would continually employee people…of course these are usually publice sector employees so the costs to the public would continually rise. Refineries and nuclear power-plants are good, but if we really want to reduce our dependency on foreign oil or oil period, the research,design and manufacturing of renewable fuel technology would be even better.

    My point is that our politicians are not in office for our best interest but only to line their own pockets…all of them. I wish we had true representatives of the people like they had when this country wsa founded.

  63. rcampbell…forgive me if you thought I was defending insurance companies. I am defending the fact that most people say insurance companies are the big bad monsters that created all of the problems when that is entirely not true. As for the mortgage companies, wallstreet brokers, lack of federal oversight and let’s not forget banks in general causing an economic collapse…I totally agree. Those are the kinds of companies that need to be heavily regulated and watched like a hawk…which all of our politicians refused to do. I do wonder what you prefer instead of a private insurer. Please tell me it is something other than another public option which by its own definition would fail and go bankrupt…see Medicare, Medicaid, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Social Security…need I go on.

  64. Repealing Glass Steagall Act was why banks and mortgage companies tanked.
    GSA set up a regulatory firewall between commercial and investment bank activities, both of which were curbed and controlled. Banks were given a year to decide on whether they would specialize in commercial or in investment banking. Only 10% of commercial banks’ total income could stem from securities; however, an exception allowed commercial banks to underwrite government-issued bonds. Financial giants at the time such as JP Morgan and Company, which were seen as part of the problem, were directly targeted and forced to cut their services and, hence, a main source of their income. By creating this barrier, the GSA was aiming to prevent the banks’ use of deposits in the case of a failed underwriting job.
    Congress made another decision to regulate the banking sector. In an effort to prevent financial conglomerates from amassing too much power, the new act focused on banks involved in the insurance sector. Congress agreed that bearing the high risks undertaken in underwriting insurance is not good banking practice. Thus, as an extension of the Glass-Steagall Act, the Bank Holding Company Act further separated financial activities by creating a wall between insurance and banking. Even though banks could, and can still can, sell insurance and insurance products, underwriting insurance was forbidden.
    Consequently, to the delight of many in the banking industry (not everyone, however, was happy), in November of 1999 Congress repealed the GSA with the establishment of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which eliminated the GSA restrictions against affiliations between commercial and investment banks. Furthermore, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act allows banking institutions to provide a broader range of services, including underwriting and other dealing activities.
    We saw what happened in 2008, so the rest is history.

  65. skew,

    FDR put into that legislation for some reason. Maybe it was his family that lost a fortune in the 1898 or 1896 collapse/recession? The Reagan years started the tide for deregulation and reincorporation/reintegration of the Banks, Insurance and Stock Market.

    It was his intent that the three should never merge as one. So much for FDR’s policy’s. I took a course at UT called Economics and the Economical History of the US from the beginning. I thought it was bull shit when I read it but now I see it as sound wisdom. If I remember correctly it was taught by Dr. Forrest Hill. I think his name stands out because he was kinda geeky and a damn good professor.

    He did warn the class through out the year that is you cannot rely upon “paradigm notes” (short cuts notes for cutting class)which were an outline of his class. He changed it up every year and they proved to be useless. Other words, attend class, take your own notes and read the book, be ready for one final exam as that was the only grade we would have. What kinda of logic was that?

  66. toray99…good information. This is precisley why these particular industries need to be heavily regulated but left with just enough room to be competitive in the world market.

  67. Anonymously Yours…I agree whole heartedly with the need to keep the three sectors separated. As a past banker, I never did like the idea of the bank offering insurance and securities. Banks have totally gotten away from the definition of “bank”.

    Leave it to our “representatives” to screw up a good thing just like they screwed up Social Security and Medicare and are now to afraid to address the problems because they don’t want to lose the perks they give themselves.

  68. skew,

    I know exactly how insurance companies operate. I used to beat them down in court all the time. I even worked for one. Once. Whereas you apparently work for them full time.

    Appropriate nick, skew, since that’s all you do.

  69. The remark of Obamas’ is contrary to the CBO’s assessment of how the bill reads and the projected amount to be paid out to illegal aliens. Further more, the subject would become a mute point IF the proposed health bill is shoved through, amnesty for 20 million or more illegals would give them coverage. Also,the Dems in D.C. would assure more votes in 2012 along with ACORN and others. (supporting brothels and encouraging tax fraud, vote fraud etc.) – news 9/10/09 Wall St. Journal and Fox news.
    How refreshing to hear a clear true and objective comment voiced during a bull session/sales job putting listeners on a flying carpet of info that could of taken 20 minutes.
    Isn’t it queer that Obama’s complaint of Republican’s scare tactics were later followed by Obama saying that without healthcare reform SOON, bankrupt country, jobs lost and people would die… etc.
    just dangerous and tanking the country to weaken us for ?

  70. Buddha…your life must be really miserable to have to resort to slinging such bulls..t about other people you don’t even know. So let’s get down to your problem…it must be that liberal trait that runs thru your yellow spine. You don’t have a clue about what I do and I could care less about what you do. I may be wrong, but your attitude and spite makes you sound like a two-bit lawyer, you know, the ones that are a boil on the backside of every hardworking American.

    And by the way, I don’t work for an insurance company. I work for employers that scramble everyday to find the best, most affordable benefits for their employees while trying to adhere to the constant flow of bureaucratic crap that flows out of washington. Let’s see how smart you are…have you ever known an insurance company that has kept a person from having treatment? If you say yes, then you are a truely an imbecile. As I said before, doctors and hospitals break their hippocratic oath if they choose not to treat a patient because a treatment or patient is not covered by insurance. They, not insurance companies, make the decision, based on money, who receives treatment.

    I tire of your constant degrading banters so to get back on track…this bill is supposed to be about healthcare reform, not health insurance reform. If congress and the president would concentrate on the problem of healthcare treatment and cost first, then health insurance reform would be easier to accomplish.

  71. victoria dilling….you are right on the mark. Unfortunately for us the truth gets lost in the all of the political speak that is meant to confuse people.

  72. Well don’t you think that the collapse of the economy was engineered ? How else would all these so called economic professionals NOT see the BIG bubble bursting ? Is this how they want to push a global currency ? China has agreed to buy the first International Monetary Fund bonds for about 50 billion dollars, the IMF said Wednesday. An SDR is an interest-bearing IMF asset based on a basket of international currencies — the dollar, yen, euro and pound — that is calculated daily and which members can convert into other currencies. You don’t find this info from so called main-stream media in this country either. Why else would you push for health care when it would mostly go for illegals and younger people that DON’T want to pay for health care because they are healthy and young. 77% of people are happy with their health care. This will just be an even BIGGER PONZI scheme. Think of the ponzi scheme that is wall-street and the FED. The masses enslaved in that usury scheme, then globalize it. Scary picture isn’t it.
    Look at your passports, what is in them ? Then add the national ID cards for the masses that don’t go abroad. Don’t think political parties because both parties are out to destroy the Constitution.

  73. SKEW here is some recent advise I got in reference to the little green( with envy) man, thought it was appropriate

    BIRTHER 1, September 10, 2009 at 9:37 pm


    You should ignore the wounded pit bull.

    He’s just a disbarred attorney from Kansas City, KS.
    His rather annoying demeanor is what cost him his license to begin with.
    You should read some of the complaints that have been filed against this guy.

    As long as he hides behind his little fat man avatar, he feels pretty smug. In the real world he’s a failure.


  74. He hasn’t posted yet today because he was up til 4 in the morning on another hate filled spew against some other hate filled spewer named Patty C. I have resolved myself to any of there hate filled spews by simply saying thanks for the comment. It use to really get under my skin and then I made a really hateful comment to another poster here that I regret to this day.

    You’ll notice that if your opinion is different than that of the regulars here they label you.

  75. I know what you mean and it wouldn’t be the first time that I was labled.

    What’s sad is that most of the rational people in this country are afraid to post their opinions for fear of being ridiculed and labeled by people like him…to the extent that all you ever read or hear are the radical rants and ravings of these bigots.

    As a first time blogger, I thank buddha for his ilk. It finally pushed me to the point to speak up.

  76. You should be able to speak whatever is on your mind regardless of what arrogant others think. Remember the saying opinions are like a-holes everyone has one.
    Also there are a number of people that work for organizations like ACORN and the community groups that were posted on Craigs List a few weeks ago. These people are making 10-14 bucks an hour so they are grateful to have a job, they are taking the political crap seriously. People know the government is killing private employment. Only jobs growing are working for government.

  77. As in Leon Uris’ book, “QB7,” I am sending Mr. Wilson a penny, the lowest coin in our little realm, to convey my sense of the value of the loss of his kindly offices to the nation caused by his “muzzling.”

  78. The effective equivalent of throwing a shoe in disgust American-style might be to send that penny in a loafer, don’t you think? ;)

  79. I must add that this congressman had an outburst after Strom Thurmond’s illegitimate black daughter went public, even though Thurmond’s entire family had formally acknowledged the illegitimate black daughter. Joe Wilson called her a “smear” and said she should have kept quiet.

  80. Glenn Greenwald has a very different take on this than JT. Here’s the link:

    Personally, I wish Republicans and Democrats would have yelled “liar” at Bush instead of insanely clapping during his, “we’re going to war” speech. There’s a time for politeness and there’s a time for telling the truth in a very public way. In this case, Wilson was yelling about something being a lie, when it was not. But when Obama gives the “we need Indefinite Detention speech”, (meaning we need to completely destroy the Constitution speech) and when he gives the, “we need to kill more Afghanis, Pakistanis and our own people” speech, then by god, I hope every Democrat and Republican of conscience takes off their coat and wears a T-shirt that says, I WILL NOT ASSENT TO THIS. It is wrong. I will not be party to the destruction of our Constitution and the funding of unjust empire. Regular people are arrested for doing such things. It is time for our Congress to be willing to risk arrest on behalf of the Constitution and justice.

  81. Good morning,
    I know I’m late to the party on this discussion, but I have been trying to get an answer to a question regarding Rep Joe Wilson’s comments. I am hoping there is an analytical mind out there that can shed some light on my thought.
    For 12 years, Barrack Obama served as a professor of constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School; as a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996, and as a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004. He is well versed in the cases and court decisions that have shaped our Constitution, including those of the 14th Amendment – more specifically, Section one – referred to as the “Equal Protection” clause.
    Two Supreme Court cases come to mind that have shaped this section; one being Plyler vs. Doe (1982) by the Berger court and the other the decision of 9th Circuit Court Judge Mariana R. Pfaelzer, overturning Prop 187 in California in 1997. These opinions set into law that, whatever benefits the State makes available to the US Citizens, cannot be kept away from a class of persons based on their immigration status or that of their parents.
    As there is language in HR3200 denying affordability payments to undocumented immigrants, isn’t this section vulnerable to challenge in the Supreme Court?
    You might ask the question then – President Obama, being a Constitutional Law Professor, shouldn’t he know there will be a question of constitutionality in denying coverage to undocumented aliens? Did he in fact “lie,” or just not present the whole truth?

  82. if in the case that the mega Pelosi/E.Emmanuel bill is passed, undocumented Mexicans will, as Obama has promised, be granted amnesty. Therein lies the rub. What the bill states, will mean nothing.
    My hope is that alternative health care and preventive medicine (my M.D.for instance) is not run out of practice.
    That Big Pharma’s attempt to coral vitamin supplements will not
    Also that along with H.R.875 and closely related bills, organic farming and family farms would be outlawed under the guise of e-coli dangers or ?
    The Mansanto Dream Bill as it is nicknamed.
    Vaccinations another concern? whatzup w/ National Emergency time?
    The special interests, FDA and the AMA are far too powerful now.

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