Nightline has been running a fascinating investigation into the Church of Scientology. This investigation includes this video of a walk-out of the spokesman for Scientology when asked simply about the beliefs of the church. According to the spokesman, it is “offensive” to be asked about what Scientologists specifically believe about the origins of man.
This is akin to the spokesman of the Vatican storming out when asked about Genesis.
The spokesman was specifically asked the “volcano” question. A volcano is often shown in advertisements for Dianetics. According to documents and former members, Hubbard (a failed science fiction writer) told followers that a galactic being named Xenu or Xemu had taken over as the rule of the “Galactic Confederacy.” Then, about 75 million years ago, he brought billions of people to Earth in spacecraft that looked remarkably like Douglas DC-8 airliners. Once here he put them in or around volcanos stuffed with H-bombs and then blew them up.
Hubbard wrote:
Simultaneously, the planted charges erupted. Atomic blasts ballooned from the craters of Loa, Vesuvius, Shasta, Washington, Fujiyama, Etna, and many, many others. Arching higher and higher, up and outwards, towering clouds mushroomed, shot through with flashes of flame, waste and fission. Great winds raced tumultuously across the face of Earth, spreading tales of destruction…
This released the famed “thetans” that stuck to survivors and are the subject of continual auditing. Now that is not so offensive is it? It could be worse, you could be blown up with H-bombs in a volcano by a crazed galactic warrior.
By the way, Xenu was eventually locked him away in “an electronic mountain trap” and still exists — possibly in the Pyrenees (where he can apparently be tormented by the Tour de France each year).
….and then there were none…..
What a fantastic religion! You can’t even ask a simple question. Which means…it’s a sham! There is no basis what so ever the foolishness known as Scientology except one man’s hallucinations.
Learn what else Scientology is up to by checking out some of their “defensive measures” at their “gold base” in California:
There are a lot of other good videos on YouTube with interviews with former members and protests demonstrations. Some interesting information, to say the least.
This is just the reaction I have gotten from my e-mail to school board members asking if they feel it is acceptable to teach Creation Science along side evolution in our science classes. I got one and only one clear response. The rest are either ignoring my question or asking me to call and express my concerns (of the record).
2009! Why can’t someone state their views on what their religion’s origin story is? That’s not a unique or threatening question. Would this be considered a blasphemous request under the UN’s new rules?
Ah, Anne Archer’s son Tommy Davis, angry once again.
Who can forget this classic?
Or this:
Bravo though. He’s really nailed that Tom Cruise impression.
By the way, Xenu was eventually locked him away in “an electronic mountain trap” and still exists — possibly in the Pyrenees (where he can apparently be tormented by the Tour de France each year).
I’m laughing so hard that I am choking, you will be hearing from my torts attorney, Turley.
Tactical retreat? We all know there was no Xenu. Instead when you die you get your own planet. Just ask any Mormon! LOL
How is it offensive to ask one what they believe?
I’m a Christian and if someone asks me what I believe, I’m going to tell them.
JT’s article about Scientology makes it sound like the storyline of a failed primetime TV show. Too funny
“I’m a Christian and if someone asks me what I believe, I’m going to tell them.”
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Sorry, Sally but you asked. Do you believe in any of the following as part of your religion:
1. A talking snake that tempted men and women into doing evil
2. Parthenogenesis
3. Human resurrection
4. Human translocation through the sky without the use of technology
5. Divine ghosts
6. Persuading others to believe as you do through threats of everlasting damnation
7. That, given all the myriad of religious mutations, only one of them is correct
“1. A talking snake that tempted men and women into doing evil”
—
Through fruit eating.
Don’t sell it short.
mespo727272,
“I’m a Christian and if someone asks me what I believe, I’m going to tell them.”
*************
Sorry, mespo I believe in the following as part of my religion:
1. A talking snake that tempted men and women into doing evil;
“And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee .” Gen 3:15-16
2. Parthenogenesis: Is an asexual form of reproduction found in females where growth and development of embryos occurs without fertilization by a male. In plants, parthenogenesis means development of an embryo from an unfertilized egg cell, and is a component process of apomixis. The offspring produced by parthenogenesis are always female in species that use the XY sex-determination system. (Does not lend credence to a lil baby boy born in a manger. Maybe the practice of the Rabbi tutoring/schooling the young female children from age 5 until 13 at that time would lend one to believe something else;
3. Human resurrection: Luke 20:34-35 : “The children of this age marry and are given in marriage, but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage.”;
4. Human translocation through the sky without the use of technology: If you are speaking of Bilocation then I can answer as follows. St Germain was a master alchemist. And is the appearance of an individual in two places simultaneously. What exactly occurs in the phenomenon of bilocation is uncertain. The prevailing theory suggests that it is a projection of a double. In appearance to others the double may appear to be a solid physical form, or may be ghostly. Usually this double acts strangely and mechanically and does not acknowledge others when spoken to.
Although it is uncommon, bilocation is an ancient phenomenon. It is claimed to have been experienced, and even practiced by will, by mystics, ecstatics, saints, monks, holy persons, and magical adepts. Several Christian saints and monks were adapt at bilocation such as St. Anthony of Padua, St. Ambrose of Milan, St. Severus of Ravenna, and Padre Pio of Italy. In 1774, St. Alphonsus Maria de’Ligouri was seen at the bedside of the dying Pope Clement XIV, when in fact the saint was confined to his cell in a location that was a four-day journey away.;
5. Divine ghosts: Other than the above and Jesus was supposed to do this act as well, I cannot readily answer unless you speak of the poltergeist.;
6. Persuading others to believe as you do through threats of everlasting damnation: Hitler did it, Herod, Cheney, W acting on Orders of Cheney, Benny Hinn, Robert Tilton and many more;
7. That, given all the myriad of religious mutations, only one of them is correct. Is there a final place to go other than purgatory? I am not sure…..
Paul Haggis has just left Scientology with a series of stinging letters.
http://www.movieline.com/2009/10/paul-haggis-renounces-scientology.php
Ok, Stel:
1. A fruit-a-phile, talking snake …
JT,
I’m pretty sure that Hubbard was if not a GOOD writer a successful writer. I believe he got 100+ books published under his own name and various pen names.
Remember folks, everyone’s religious beliefs sound equally ridiculous to non-members (including Atheism, and Amway).
Gyges:
“Remember folks, everyone’s religious beliefs sound equally ridiculous to non-members (including Atheism, and Amway).”
****************
Just another way of saying everyone’s an atheist to all religions but their own. As Dawkins says, I am just willing to go one religion more.
BTW I think the original Fab Four (Matt, Mark, John, & Luke) sold more books — even without Amazon or whacky Tom Cruise hocking them.
Mespo,
The also had thousand year head start.
mespo727272,
BTW I think the original Fab Four (Matt, Mark, John, & Luke) sold more books — even without Amazon or whacky Tom Cruise hocking them.
*************************
The First of the Fab Four did not even get published until 30 some odd years until after the “Crucifixion”. The last one being I believe Mark was some 230 years after the death as well.
I did some research on this back in 1985 and that was when I decided to go to law school rather than continue with religious studies.
A lot of the ecclesiastical work is based upon fiction. Which created a lot of internal friction. Believe this or not their is more politics there than in law school.
We flipped on Nightline partway through that “episode”(?), and my wife immediately commented, “Look at his (Tommy Davis’) body language!” It was very retracted and defensive, much earlier in the interview. I was really disappointed that Bashir decided to push Davis to walk out, instead of diffusing that moment or asking related questions. There were a hundred other questions he could have asked that would have boxed Davis in without giving him the excuse to run away.
But, Jonathan and Nightline should give some warning before disclosing the creation story – I seem to recall that people who learn of the evil Prince and the volcanoes and all that will develop some sort of disease (liver? lung?) if they are not adequately prepared to learn of it by the organization’s (expensive) training! Don’t blame me if we all end up in the same hospital waiting room for liver transplants…
I think, though, that the fact that high ranking SeaOrg folks are out and talking is a really major development.
Also, I hadn’t hear about Paul Haggis’ involvement with the organization or that he had freed himself of them. His objection to their homophobic beliefs (rumor has it that Tom Cruise became involved with them to “cure” him) points out a serious problem with their recruitment of and double standards for celebrities. Some, like Cruise, become obedient, but many others are going to speak their minds, regardless of the “volunteer labor” pampering they receive from the organization.
“Sorry, Sally but you asked. Do you believe in any of the following as part of your religion:”
I love a good religious discussion, as long as it doesn’t descend into “You’re an idiot for believing that”. Alas, that’s where they most often go.
Just about every religion believes in things that sound patently insane to someone who doesn’t believe in them. By definition (my definition, anyway), a religion must have some unprovable bit of something that flies in the face of commopn sense to even be called a religion. Without it, it’s just a philosophy or “belief system”. So pointing out the more outlandish tenets of Religion X to disprove its veracity is a (IMHO) weak argument. One could make not believing in (a) god sound just as outlandish, as many try to do.
The big difference in the context of this discussion is that most religions do not actively HIDE what they believe any more. Catholics/Christians do not cover up the fact that their religion is based on what is in the bible – you can walk into almost any bookstore on earth and buy any books you like that provide the details in exacting scrutiny, and many more books that discuss those details. Judaism does the same – I have always loved the fact that the Talmud, a series of books that discuss the teachings of Judaism, is many times longer than the collected teachings they discuss. This is true for almost every religion.
The more secretive a religion (or any “secret society”) is of its teachings, the easier it is to be mistrusted. Mormonism is an example, Scientology even more so. To the best of my knowledge, Scientology is the only religion that holds strict copyright on its teachings, and actively presecutes any unauthorized distribution of said teachings. When there’s only one way to gain knowledge of a religion, and that way is directly connected to payment, that’s an easy model to grow suspicious of.
It is perfectly possible to find help in ANY belief system. It’s amazing the things that can help you get through the day. So I have no problem believing that many people have bettered themselves through Scientology. Like most religions, the problems are not with the teachings themselves, but with the way those teachings (and interpretations of same) are twisted and misused by people in positions of power in said religions. It’s telling (I think) that so many of the people who are talking about Scientology now are stressing that it’s the management of the religion and not its teachings that they find fault with. I’ve heard this same story before in so many areas – founder of a company dies, and the second generation of people running turn it into something almost unrecognizable from its original form.
I’m curious to see how things will play out in the recent investigation of a suicide in Australia. The young solder had recently spent $25K on Scientology auditing and courses. The coroner’s request for his audit files was refused by Scientology, alternately claiming “confessional privilege” or just that the files had no value to the investigation. The files have been moved to the US, and a spokesman has stated, “Whether the files will be made available now or not is a question for America, not for us.”
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26259836-5006786,00.html
What is particularly distasteful to critics is that Scientology has a long history of leaking the information in those files in order to intimidate and defame ex-members. Today’s Salon article “Scientology’s No Good, Very Bad Week,” for example, discusses how Amy Scobee was smeared in that way. (Amy Scobee appears in the NightLine program).
The authorities must recognize that Scientology’s blatant misuse of audit files invalidates them from claiming “confessional privilege” when the purpose suits them. Their secrecy, in the name of religion, must be penetrated to keep abuse from occurring.
it’s just as weird as any other religion…. or for that matter, belief system
Mr. Bushir dropped the ball… he should have asked WHAT THERE WAS ABOUT THE QUESTION THAT WAS OFFENSIVE – ie: was it offensive because it was suggesting an untruth, or was it offensive because it attempted clarification on a subject that Scientology considers private.
Vinnie B:
“So pointing out the more outlandish tenets of Religion X to disprove its veracity is a (IMHO) weak argument. One could make not believing in (a) god sound just as outlandish, as many try to do.”
********
We call that rational discourse. Proving the falsehood of one’s assertions or assumptions is a classical way of disproving his/herconclusions. Perhaps you know a better way to disprove a false claim, but the rest of us haven’t stumbled across it yet. Tell me what stock what you put in a person who seriously tried to convince you that talking snakes once ruled the land.
Is the Church of Scientology becoming a church persecuted? Why? And! For what reasons?
From a short paragraph introducing Scientology comes a great example of Religious Freedom…As left to the individual.
“In Scientology no one is asked to accept anything as belief or on faith. That which is true for you is what you have observed to be true. An individual discovers for himself that Scientology works by personally applying its principles and observing or experiencing results.”
Concept Complex? No! A clear paragraph…Yes.
With the violence in the Middle East and the confusion of all formal and Conservative views of Faith that must be followed and the “Make your money my Money” paradigm; Formal Religion is most sick from inside to outside and now to the Sexual Abuse scandal Rocking and Rolling thru the Catholic Church. (I wonder if the Pontiff’s yes-men would or have walked out on an interview)?
Narrow minds and stupidity are persecuting Scientology. Why? And! May Respect and Understanding and Peace and Love be with all of us?
If the behaviour of Scientology’s hierarchy is a demonstration of their “personal philosophy”, one can only surmise their philosophy is to never listen to other points of view (or give others an opportunity to express them), never respond to innocuous questions that attempt to clarify their beliefs, and seek to control others through intimidation – not a new philosophy, but a familiar one.
When science fiction writer Ron L. Hubbard expressed, back in (I think it was) the ‘50’s, that the best way to make lots and lots of money was to “start your own church”, he knew what-of he spoke. It’s a sad commentary on the human condition that he was dead right. As PT Barnum (originator of “The Greatest Show on Earth”) so tellingly observed: “There’s a sucker born every minute.
Since it had gotten there anyways, I was born into the christian faith(no evidence=faith, no matter what the subject is) and like any child I had believed it, even tried to get my friends to come too, now that I am an adult though, I see it for what it really is. Provided the bible is real, every single grammar mark and every letter held within those pages, the longest ship made was smaller than the ark, and needed steel bindings to hold it together. So how did it stay afloat without falling apart? And even if you want to be like all the other oh so faithful people I’ve asked and turn your back on that question, what about termites? Evolution doesn’t exist right? So termites had to have been on the ark. Every time I wonder about the ark it seems to turn into more and more of a conundrum if I want anything other than it’s false. so we should know by now that there are insects that eat wood, why? the only dry land was wood, how the hell did they survive??? and wasnt it like 150 days that the water was on the earth??? 150 days??? really??? honestly??? even if the termites couldn’t make it sink on their own in 150 days, what about the weight of all these animals? 7 of the clean, and 2 of the unclean, or was it pairs? im not sure, they changed that part of the bible while i was still learning it. first our measurements, now our holy scriptures, whats next? although, magic mushrooms apparently were a big part of their diet then, could that have something to do with the fact that slavery is ok to the bible? it even tells you what to look for and everything! i have a life given to me by my parents, and if a man were to rape me is it then my fault? could i have done something to deserve it? maybe, if i was walking down the street nude with a sex toy strapped to me… shit happens though, and you should never, EVER tell yourself it’s your fault for someone else royally fucking your life up. any religion that deems slavery, homosexuality, working on sundays, driving a mercury, wearing cotton and polyester in the same garment, etc in it, some of which are perfectly fine, while others are immoral in society, CANNOT be the one true word of an ALL-LOVING, ALL-FORGIVING god, and therefore cannot be true. for everyone out there searching for the meaning of life, it’s either there or it’s not, but what is more important? why are we here? or what can we do while we are here? in my opinion, religion has outgrown it’s time and has no place left in a world where humans adapt and change daily. ill even go out on a limb and say that again, in my opinion, feel free to disagree with me, religion has NEVER had a place in this world, and has destroyed every life it has touched. religion is about breaking you down and giving you a delusional world to live in, making you happy when really, you’re not. should priests get away with breaking the law? it doesn’t matter what one, they are all valid, and it should be the same punishment a wiccan gets, or a muslim, or anyone else on this planet. we are all human and even though we may not look the same, or act the same, we may even disagree with each other from time to time, but we are all HUMAN! it doesn’t matter to me what you believe, as long as you aren’t breaking any laws or forcing it on people that disagree. with that being said, why should you hate a person? because someone told you to? if someone told you to jump off the cn tower, would you? the only good reason for hating someone is if they had wronged you and did nothing to repair the damage they caused.