Prius drivers have always hoped for a car that could go hundreds miles without stopping. However, they hoped it could stop if they wanted it to. Jim Sikes claims that his Prius suddenly stuck going 90 mph and would not stop — requiring the highway patrol to ride along side and give him advice on how to stop the vehicle. Cases like this reinforce the use of the “Toyota Defense” in criminal cases. The biggest problem is that in a good gas guzzler, he would simply run out of gas. In the Prius, he kept going and going . . .
The highway patrol tried to work him through possible options on the phone but nothing worked. Finally an officer in a patrol car used its public address system to suggest applying the brake while also using the emergency brake. That slowed the car to 50 mph and he was able to shut off the car. What is particularly interesting is that Sikes said that he had brought in the car to the Toyota dealership for the widely advertised fix — only to be told that his car was not on the list and would not be repaired.
While Toyota could still face a lawsuit over the incident, it should make a sizable gift to the California Highway Patrolman’s Fund since they just saved the company a lot of money by avoiding an accident in the case.
For the full story, click here.
Wow. This is a pervasive problem for old Toyota. I didn’t know that a Prius could go 90MPH! I hope Toyota is all paid up on their liability coverage.
Was turning off the ignition not an option? (Serious question; I’ve never even been in a Prius.)
Why was it possible to turn off the ignition at 50 mph, but not at 90 mph?
Turning the key one graduation back does not lock the steering wheel, and steering a vehicle of this size without power assist (if it even has power steering) would not be difficult.
There’s something fishy about this story. I’m waiting for “ballon boy” to make an appearance.
Duh you are correct. Although the steering would stiffen it would not be difficult. However if it was rack and pinion you’d think you were behind the wheel of a stock car.
After doing more research, it’s not that simple. The Prius has a push-button ignition. I’m not sure what the status of the steering column lock would be after the button is pushed. I did find some information indicating that the driver tried pushing the button, but the engine would not turn off. That’s pretty scary.
I think it would be a good idea to equip every new vehicle with an emergency ignition kill switch. One that is in no way linked to the steering column. It would need to be protected from inadvertent activation, and easy to reset, but that shouldn’t be too difficult to design.
Duh/Bdaman:
A good long stretch of straight highway would be good as well
After doing more research, it’s not that simple. The Prius has a push-button ignition.
But it still needs a key doesn’t it? How do you turn the car off once you have arrived at your destination. I believe that Toyota had already issued a What To Do List in the event that that happens which included turning the car off and placing the car in neutral and applying the brakes.
Personally, I will not purchase a vehicle that doesn’t have a traditional steering column key governing the ignition system.
How hard is it to shift to neutral?
From the underlying article:
“A Toyota spokesman issued a statement Monday night saying the automaker had been notified of the incident.
“Toyota has dispatched a field technical specialist to San Diego to investigate the report and offer assistance,” the statement said.”
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San Diego? I thought this was a story from the Bonneville Salt Flats.
http://www.utah.com/playgrounds/bonneville_salt.htm
Nal said “How hard is it to shift to neutral?”
Not hard at all (just be careful you don’t go to far and end up in reverse or park). If the gear shift is on the steering column, make sure you put pressure forward while pushing up. This will prevent the shift from going any further than neutral. Many floor shifts offer the same type of protection. Some you push to the left while moving towards park, and others you push down while moving towards park.
The problem with putting the vehicle into neutral, while the throttle is stuck open, is that the engine will over-speed. This will probably result in damage to the engine, and could create a hazard as it “blows up”. I’ve seen an over-speed condition send a connecting rod thru the engine block.
If you find yourself in a stuck open throttle condition, it is best to turn off the vehicle while it is still in gear. Just don’t trun the key far enough to lock the steering column.
Toyota and Lexus offer push-button ignition. The key doesn’t need to be inserted. It just has to be on your person. The car senses its presence. (Que Twilight Zone theme)
If you turned off the ignition while coasting I would be worried about locking the steering column as Duh alluded to as well. I don’t have one of these kinds of cars, so I dont know, but I would imagine that it is an on/off switch and there is no middle switch where the car is on but not running like my 2001 pick up.
I agree with an earlier poster though, there is something about this story that just does not sound quite right.
More research.
It looks like the Preus is supposed to turn off the engine if the start-button is held depressed for 3 seconds. It’s like a computer.
It’s never to late to learn. Here’s a Toyota Simulator. Just in case.
http://toyotasimulator.com/
DUH:
that was funny.
On the Highway to Hell….
Perhaps this is what Toyota’s “Moving Forward” slogan really means . . . no brakes!
Priusipism
If your uncontrolled acceleration last from more than four hours, contact your physician.
I have a Prius. As has been stated there is no key – the car senses the proximity of a transmitter – so you cannot turn it off. The proper procedure is to hold down the start button for three seconds. Apparently, neither the driver nor the highway patrol guy knew about this. Toyota is not publicizing it because they are denying that this is a problem.
The other thing is that the gear shift in the Prius is unconventional. As far as I know, it may be impossible to shift into neutral while in motion. From experience, it is very easy to shift into the wrong gear while at rest.
Wendell. Thanks for the information. But regarding your not knowing if it it possible or not to shift into neutral while in motion, I would recomend that ASAP is the time to find out in the light of recent events.
Duh. Quite right about the risk of blowing up an engine, but given the choice of that or crashing at 90, I know which I’d choose. Not too familiar with auto transmissions, but I don’t think that cutting the engine with an auto in gear would offer much in the way of engine braking. Perhaps things may be different if the Pius has one of those gearboxes that locks the transmission when in top gear.
I see that there is thoughtful and rational debate on this issue,but I don’t think “homeboy” was in a position to do either.
So, if the car is on when the transmitter is in proximity to the vehicle, what happens if you chuck the transmitter out the window while chugging along at 94 mph? Will the vehicle shut down?
According to the news, the California man took it in based upon a recall notice and the dealer told him that it was not on the recall list.
In another story a person from NY had the same problem yesterday as well.
Car & Driver recently did a test, and found that, on all Toyota vehicles, the brakes will overpower the engine. There is, indeed, something a little fishy about this story: the driver has enough time to contact CHP, who have enough time to respond, and tell the driver (bad) instructions over loudspeakers, and through all this, nobody has the sense to shift to neutral? (by the way, virtually every computer-controlled vehicle now has over-revving logic to prevent serious engine damage). Sounds more like a publicity stunt by Government Motors.
A killswitch, like on jet-skis and snowmowbiles-that’s your fix. Or phase out the automatic transmission.
Bob L,
So you are suggesting that the US government has something to do with Toyota’s issues? I guess it possible to slip in a few maligned parts to help US sales of American made vehicles. But why?
You can’t harm the engine by using full throttle. A rev limiter will kill the ignition so that the engine speed drops to a lower limit temporarily, then picks up again until the limiter kicks in, over and over.
I f you drive an automatic transmission vehicle, now’s the time to rehearse shifting into neutral WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE SHIFTER. It could take several tries to train yourself. Also train any other user of the vehicle.
It’s also time to train yourself to drive two-footed. You then can’t mistakenly mash the gas instead of the brake when panic sets in. You could notice a small increase in fuel mileage, as your right foot will be in place to gently roll onto the pedal instead of retraining itself every time it moves over onto the pedal, causing jerky, gas wasting starts. You could also find that there are times when you see some erratic behavior and want to keep your speed up but be ready for an emergency. Now, your left foot can hover over the brake, ready to give it a tap to disconnect the cruise or slow suddenly. Result: better reaction times, which could save yourself.
Your life, your problem. Yours and mine together because you were too slow or confused: my problem.
First rule of accidents according to my PI attorney bud: DON’T HAVE THEM.
AY,
I heard about the incident in NY. That vehicle already had the floor mat ties installed.
It may just be that the driver pushed on the wrong pedal and crashed the car. If that is what really happened, it would still probably be blamed on Toyota.
You can practice placing the transmission into neutral when stopped at a stop light. It’s good for the transmission too.
I don’t think two-footed driving is a good suggestion, even from a safety point of view. The two-footed technique is more complicated, requiring coordination between both legs.
I own a first year Prius which after all this time, I don’t think is included as part of the problem. I am so angered though that this happened with the Prius hybrid. This is the direction America should be going in. A high gas milage vehicle without sacrificing space (as in the Mini Cooper or Smart Car – which is anything BUT!!) This doesn’t just set hybrid cars back but it sets America back.
Anonymously Yours:
No, I would not credit “government” that sophistication. All I’m saying is either this is a staged incident, or there are more incredibly stupid people in California than I previously thought, meaning not only the driver, but the CHP, media, pundits et al. I mean, holy crap, you have enough time to do all the things reported in the story, but nobody has the common sense to shift to neutral?
This story doesn’t make much sense:
* If you press the brake it will completely disable the accelerator on the Prius until you release the brake pedal. Toyota is already promising this feature for all their non-hybrid cars in the future.
The CHP officer said he smelled burning brakes after the car was stopped but this may have just been the emergency brakes on the rear wheels.
* You can shift into neutral or hit the park button (which will beep at you and put you in neutral) while the Prius is in motion at high speed even if the accelerator is pressed at the same time.
The driver apparently never tried this because he was too panicked or had put down the phone .
* As someone else noted earlier, you can turn off the engine without locking the steering wheel by holding down the “Power” button for 3 seconds.
J Smith.
Sorry to go a little off topic, but if you want a high gas milage car, surely almost any of the 2 litre turbo diesels from europe will do.
I would worry about the maintainence costs of hybrids as they get older even taking into cosideration the fact that Japanese cars are generally very reliable in the long term. The hybrid just seems overly complex.
I currently run a ford mondeo station wagon. 2.2 litre turbo diesel, returns 38mpg around town and in the stop/start commute to and from work. Cruising at 90 to 110mph returns over 40mpg.
Before that I had the Seat Leon 2 litre TDI – same engine as in the Volksvagens and Skodas. That one was a bit of a “license loser”!
I drive an 07 Prius. The gear shift is on the dash & the gears are in this pattern:
R
….X
D B
After shifting into Reverse or Drive the lever automatically returns to the X position. “B” is for Brake…downshifting for mountain driving. I haven’t heard of anyone shifting to B…that seems to me to be a logical option.
The keyless system doesn’t automatically start the car when you enter. You have to press the Power button with your foot on the brake to start the engine. If your foot isn’t on the brake you just turn on the accessories; radio, etc. When you press the Power button to turn off the engine the car is automatically put into Park. There’s also a separate Park button on the dash which does not turn off the engine.
The problem seems to me to be electrical, else if the engine was indeed turned off by the Power button, it would go into Park & “rip out the guts” of the Park mechanism. That would certainly be better than crashing at 90mph. Toyota would certainly have a lawsuit if they wouldn’t cover repairs.
JAR.
This “B” position on the shifter. Would that be similar to the “L” position on the old Ford C4 auto box? This position would lock the transmission into low gear so that engine braking could be used to slow the car when descending a steep hill.
Jeff N said
* You can shift into neutral or hit the park button (which will beep at you and put you in neutral) while the Prius is in motion at high speed even if the accelerator is pressed at the same time.
Not so, as far as shifting into neutral is concerned…the shift lever (very small on the dash) returns to the “home” position (X in my earlier post) after shifting into Drive. So there’s NO NEUTRAL to shift into.
Maaarrghk!
Yes, “B” is for downshifting into low gear when descending a steep hill.
(1) Can one put the Prius into neutral while it is driving: Of course. It’s easy–just press the Park button and it will go into neutral. No muss no fuss. The parking pawl is only engaged if the the park button is pressed when the speed is less than 7 mph.
5. HOW TO PUT THE PRIUS INTO NEUTRAL TO GO THROUGH A CAR WASH:
The car must be in the ready mode, and instead of just tapping the joystick as one does to put it in reverse or drive, tap and hold it on neutral for a second or so. The car will stay in neutral for the entire time it is being washed. The reason the car has this feature is so you don’t accidentally bump the joystick while driving, and throw yourself into neutral. They thought of everything!
You can also put it into R. The computer puts it into neutral more quickly than the tap and hold method above.
Nal
I read my manual cover to cover 3 years ago when I got my Prius. I don’t remember reading about shifting into Park or Reverse while the car is moving (or while still). I’m not disputing your post, just asking where it’s documented. I’d like to review that. I also never thought about going thru a carwash. I’ve always washed it myself. With our recent heavy snows, I’m thinking about a carwash this weekend.
There are some videos at the bottom of this page.
The reverse idea can be found here.
May not be the kind of documentation you’re looking for.
Here’s an excerpt from an article just published in our firm newsletter to clients. Were I Toyota, I would be having corporate some chills about now:
“The legal stakes are high for Toyota, because it is the first automaker embroiled in major safety issues since tough new criminal penalties became law after 2000′s rollover recalls involving Ford Explorers and Firestone tires. The Transportation Recall Enhancement, Accountability and Documentation (TREAD) Act for the first time made individuals who intentionally mislead federal regulators about safety defects subject to possible criminal fines and/or prison.
Toyota revealed last month that a federal grand jury in the Southern District of New York subpoenaed documents relating to sudden acceleration in various vehicles and braking issues in the Prius.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is investigating the timeliness of Toyota’s reporting of its sudden-acceleration complaints and fixes and Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood says Toyota could face civil penalties. But the grand jury subpoenas signal that the U.S. attorney for that district has a criminal investigation underway.
“It is safe to assume they had good reason to issue those subpoenas,” says former federal prosecutor Robert Mintz. “They are well aware of the legal standards they have to meet to prosecute the case.”
NHTSA has often worked closely with the Justice Department on high-profile safety investigations. Toyota has said it reported “in a timely manner” and is complying with the subpoenas. The Justice Department would not comment.
Bill Boehly, a former NHTSA enforcement chief, says NHTSA will be assessing whether Toyota should have told the agency sooner than it did about pedals that could stick, causing unintended acceleration, and whether it “provided all the information that was requested in the course of its defect investigations.”
A trail of documents is being sought from Toyota by investigators in the various probes to discover what safety issues the company was aware of, when they found out about them and what they did in response.
However, Toyota likely has fewer documents to produce than an automaker might have in the 1990s. The TREAD Act sent such a chill through automakers that car company lawyers and managers began warning their engineers to avoid putting test results or conclusions in writing, according to two people who worked with the major automakers on compliance. They requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.
“The reason they don’t put much in writing any more than they can help is they don’t want to disclose the thought process or the design process of their staff,” Savannah, Ga., plaintiff attorney says of automakers. “They’ve had to face that music too many times.”
The incident in Harrison, NY indicates that the driver never pushed the brake pedal.
“HARRISON, N.Y. — Computer data from a Toyota Prius that crashed in suburban New York City show that at the time of the accident the throttle was open and the driver was not applying the brakes, U.S. safety officials said Thursday.”
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/consumer/recalls&id=7338221
On March 10th at 10:03, I said “It may just be that the driver pushed on the wrong pedal and crashed the car.”
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In California, Toyota is saying that what the driver is claiming is impossible. The NHTSA is agreeing with Toyota.
“Overseen not only by Toyota field representatives but a Congressional staffer, NHTSA investigators were unable to replicate the behaviors Sikes describes in his car. Pressing hard on the brakes did in fact bring the car to a stop, over multiple tests.
Indeed, Sikes’ 2008 Toyota Prius has a “smart accelerator” function built into its throttle software: If both the brakes and accelerator are floored, it cuts power to the engine, making it impossible for the accelerator to overpower the brakes.”
http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/1043447_the-strange-saga-of-sikes-and-his-suddenly-accelerating-prius
On March 9th at 12:55, I said “There’s something fishy about this story. I’m waiting for “ballon boy” to make an appearance.”
Do I suspect passive aggressiveness over here on this very thread?
Were you there? Does Toyota have the need not to replicate this action? What is the training of the congressional aide?
Do I smell madness, as in reefer? Smoking so early in the morning. tisk, tisk, tisk….
Are cosmic rays really causing Toyota’s woes?
Regulators take closer look at design of electronics
http://www.freep.com/article/20100316/BUSINESS0104/3160361/1318/Are-cosmic-rays-really-causing-Toyotas-woes