Walmart worker Joseph Casias, 29, can take heart from the fact that the company is highly “sympathetic” to his struggle with an inoperable brain tumor. The sympathy, however, did not prevent the company from firing him because he used legal medical marijuana to deal with the pain of the tumor.
Casias was fired in November from a Walmart store in Battle Creek, Mich., after marijuana was detected in a routine drug screening. He proceeded to show all of the records that he took the marijuana legally and there was never a complaint about his performance at work. He worked 12-14 hours a day.
Walmart spokesman Greg Rossiter told FoxNews.com “This is just an unfortunate situation all around.” Well a bit more unfortunate for Casias, wouldn’t you say? Rossiter add “We’re sympathetic to Mr. Casias’ condition, but like other companies, we have to consider the overall safety of our customers and associates, including Mr. Casias, when making a difficult decision like this.” So, this is a Walmart version of Reefer Madness.
Once again, I am not sure why Wal-Mart fights these fights (here) and reaffirms the global view of the company as one of the dark forces in the business world.
For the full story, click here.
Not that I needed another reason to not shop at Wal-Mart, but, this will be added to the ever-growing list.
they fight these fighst because of a classically anti-Labor ideology that Nelson Lichetenstein traces from Sam walton’s variety stores to the present. they’ve done everything possible to avoid unions or compliance with the most basic labor laws, while also seeking tax breaks and outright subsidies from local governmentes and encouraging employees to go on various forms of public assistance. Sadly, no high profile media or even liberal interest group has been able to provide an effective response to their engaeing in corporate socialism while denying basic workers’ rights.
i sort of agree with wal-mart, although i certainly understand why he was using it. the problem lies in the fact that they can’t ascertain when it was used, therefore he could have been using it on the job. he should have been up front BEFORE the drug test. listen, when the drug test comes back, it will be positive because my doctor wrote me a prescription for marijuana and i used it off work hours” might have earned him some kind of credit but he waited until AFTER they found the marijuana to come up with the reason.
Yeah Baby,
Stacey,
Under HIPAA, Mr. Casias’ health care and treatment are between him and his doctors and entirely his business. He had no duty to disclose this before the fact any more than he has a duty to disclose any treatment.
The more likely scenario is that since Wal-Mart basically self-insures their employees (in a substandard manner) that they didn’t want to pay for his medical care. This is not the first time they have acted this way . . .
http://jonathanturley.org/2008/04/02/wal-mart-backs-down-in-its-litigation-against-brain-damaged-former-employee/
stacey,
As a company that probably has Life Insurance on this man and now has fired him for using MM. I think that they would have fired him for having the brain tumor as a safety measure for the company.
People with Brains can really do stupid. People with brain tumors can really be stupid. To wit, W, Rove, Cheney name em….
another note, think Walmart should have to keep paying the employee under LTD as well as redirect the beneficiary under the LI policy that they most likely have on this man.
Many, many companies have a zero tolerance drug policy. These policies were put in place for “public safety”, not as a means of adding another branch of law enforcement. Either the use of marijuana presents a safety concern or it does not. The legality or legitimacy of such use does not eleviate the safety concern.
It sucks, but I don’t see how Wal-Mart had any choice. If they chose to ignore the reason for creating the drug policy, I think it would open them to a lot of law suits from previous employees who lost their jobs after testing positive.
Medical.
Necessity.
I suppose this person should have been fired if he was on chemo too.
This man’s medical treatment is legal in the state he is in.
“On Tuesday, November 4, 2008, by a 63% to 37% margin, the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act was passed with the full support of voters in all 83 counties. The initiative called Prop 1 was sponsored by the Michigan Coalition for Compassionate Care who gathered the required signatures to place the initiative on the ballot. Additional support from the Marijuana Policy Project, NORML, MINORML, StoptheDrugWar.com and a number of medical associations educated and motivated Michigan voters to stand up for patients rights and individual liberty by rejecting the facticious rhetoric offered by self interested members from the law enforcement community.” from http://www.michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/node/12
Full text of the law is here: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28zbfune45ii5rsoaklzokvjnz%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-Initiated-Law-1-of-2008
Yes. This is a country of laws – which incidentally include state laws. In Michigan, his treatment is not only legal, it’s legal specifically to help people in Mr. Casias’ situation. Unless you think depriving a terminal patient of a legal drug that fights nausea and pain is a good thing. Which would by definition make you a sadist.
Nice to see exactly what kind of person loves Wal-Mart. Those who think others medical care is their business. There is a word for that. “Busybody”. There are other less kind words too, but I’ll leave the adjectival modifiers for the sane readers to fill in with words of their choice. You know, choice. Like choice in legal medical treatment.
The above post was in response to posts by “Excited Wal-Mart Shopper”. Posts since removed, thankfully. That doesn’t change the validity of the above assertion.
BIL – In this increasingly crazy and irrational world, I’m grateful for your voice of reason and compassion.
Walmart may be a multi-billion-dollar company–but it is morally bankrupt…and terminally heartless.
Zero tolerance policies are put in place by companies like Walmart mainly to make firings such as this one excusable. So sorry…we can’t make any exceptions to the rules!
anon nurse,
One lives to be of service. Thank you for the kind words. I am grateful to find that reason and compassion still hold some sway in a world where I fully expect Rod Serling to pop out of my closet at any moment and utter those words, “Submitted for your approval . . .”
I, too, feel like I’m living in the Twilight Zone these days, but still hope (in my Pollyanna moments), that all is not lost. Crazy, I know…
And this also:
“Walmart announcement tells black people to leave store
An announcement at a Walmart store in New Jersey ordering black people to leave brought chagrin and apologies Wednesday from …
By BRUCE SHIPKOWSKI
The Associated Press
WASHINGTON TOWNSHIP, N.J. — A Walmart store announcement ordering black people to leave brought chagrin and apologies Wednesday from leaders of the company.
A male voice came over the public-address system Sunday evening at a store in Washington Township, in southern New Jersey, and announced: “Attention, Walmart customers: All black people, leave the store now.”
Shoppers in the store said a manager quickly got on the public-address system and apologized. It was unclear whether a rogue patron or an employee was responsible for the comment, but many customers expressed their anger to store management.”
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2011372410_walmart18.html
eniobob – Thanks for posting the Seattle Times link.
“In an Eastern District of Washington case, Barber v. Gonzales, 2005 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 37411 (2005), the court rejected Plaintiff’s argument that the ADA protected disabled individuals who used medical marijuana, despite the state law permitting the use of medical marijuana. Similarly, in Ross v. RagingWire Telecommunications, Inc., 42 Cal. 4th 920 (2008), an employee argued that he was wrongfully terminated after failing a drug test. The employee claimed that his employer failed to reasonably accommodate his disability. The California Supreme Court noted that marijuana is not treated the same as any legal prescription drug. The court held that despite the legality of medical marijuana under state law, it is illegal under the CSA and is not afforded protection under the ADA. The Montana Supreme Court recently reached a similar conclusion. The court held in Johnson v. Columbia Falls Aluminum Co., LLC, 2009 MT 108N (MT 2009), that an employer is not required to accommodate medical marijuana use even though a state law decriminalizes the use of medical marijuana.”
“Employers in all states should take heed to the issues that may be implicated from an employee’s use of medical marijuana. Regardless of the state laws, the Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSHA) requires that employers provide a safe workplace. The ADA also does not require employers to accommodate a condition that may pose a threat or harm other employees.”
http://www.epspros.com/KNOWLEDGECENTER/PrescribedMarijuanaintheWorkplace/tabid/509/Default.aspx
“In Washington state, “Jane Roe” was offered a position at TeleTech, upon completion of a negative drug test. Less than one week after she began working, her drug tests returned with positive results. Roe stated that her physician prescribed medical marijuana for her migraine headaches when other treatments offered little relief. TeleTech refused to provide any exceptions to their rule of a drug-free work environment and terminated Roe. Roe filed a lawsuit claiming wrongful termination and violation of the Washington State Medical Use of Marijuana Act (“MUMA”). The trial court dismissed Roe’s case. The Washington Court of Appeals affirmed summary judgment in favor of the employer finding that MUMA provided only a defense against criminal prosecution for the possession of marijuana. The Court concluded that MUMA was not created to force employers to accommodate the use of marijuana, but only to provide a defense to criminal prosecution to qualifying marijuana users. Roe v. TeleTech Customer Care Management, Court of Appeals of Washington, No. 38531-7-II (9/15/09).”
And that makes you not a sadist how exactly?
Why does the Oscar Wilde come to mind:
“Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.”
(Some people like living in a cookie-cutter, one-size-fits-all world, it would seem.)
Washington state precedent even. Last time I checked Washington and Michigan are sovereign state.
So come on, explain how you taking the corporatist side of this argument doesn’t make you simply a sadist making a patient choose between treatment or employ.
True, anon nurse.
To be able to think outside the box one must first be willing to think. Able to think is another matter altogether.
Buddha,
How many times does one need to ask you to avoid personal attacks before you will comply? Do you consider it acceptable to enter another’s house and insulting their guests?
Duh,
How was this a personal attack? Help me?
This is his opinion? It may not be mine. I have even agreed with you a time or two.
AY,
When someone refers to another as a “sadist”, it’s a personal attack.
Duh,
I have to disagree. But there are certainly better and more finely skilled mind out there than mine. I don’t see personal attack.
For some reason, I didn’t expect you would.
Duh,
You think THAT was an attack? Here’s some advice. Grow some skin. If I were actually attacking you? Your screen would melt.
Quit whining.
Buddha,
Just ignore it. Too many painkillers or not enough?
And yet you still haven’t answered the question of how wanting to deny a terminal patient a legal drug doesn’t make you a sadist.
Hmmmmm.
Me thinks Duh doth protest too much.
AY,
No, the pain is fine. The constant whine of “Boo hoo, poor attacked me” is simply getting old. He has opinions he can’t back up. That’d be his problem.
I could, however, attack with abandon. I do carry a verbal flame thrower in my toolbox. It has been displayed here before. Ask Byron. If Duh thinks he’s being attacked, perhaps he’s feeling guilty about being sadistic toward the dying.
Note the verb choice “could”.
Could, would, should, outta be good?
Yep.
If Duh thinks I’m not showing restraint, then he doesn’t know me very well.
sa·dism \ˈsā-ˌdi-zəm, ˈsa-\, n.,
1 : a sexual perversion in which gratification is obtained by the infliction of physical or mental pain on others (as on a love object) — compare masochism
2 a : delight in cruelty b : excessive cruelty
So how is promoting a corporate policy as being superior to state law and thereby denying a dying man comfort not simply sadism, but fascist sadism?
It’s not.
If the man in question were a pilot or a bus driver or some position where cogency is primary to protecting lives? Zero tolerance as a corporate policy not only makes sense, it should be the law.
However, he works at Wal-Mart.
I think one would have to be high just to show up and punch the clock, regardless of personal health issues.
First of all one needs to know how to comprehend. Even if they can read they may not understand what it means.
From the Healthcare Lawyer Blog (in Michigan)
“Employers who utilize drug testing programs, should uniformly enforce their policies for handling employees who test positive for marijuana. However, such policies should be amended to include how the Company is going to handle employees who test positive who are participants in the Medical Marijuana Program. Employers should treat positive outcomes consistently and uniformly.”
Johnson v. Columbia Falls Aluminum Company LLC (2009) (unpublished decision)
Johnson, who was a satisfactory employee and whose terms and conditions of employment were governed by a collective bargaining agreement, initiated an action alleging that he was wrongfully terminated for testing positive, even though he was a qualified marijuana user under Montana’s state law. In rejecting all of his claims the court concluded:
“Johnson essentially claimed that [Columbia Falls Aluminum Company] violated the ADA and the [Montana Human Rights Act] when it failed to accommodate his medical marijuana use … However, the [Montana Marijuana Act] provides that an employer is not required to accommodate an employee’s use of medical marijuana … [A] failure to accommodate use of medical marijuana does not violate the MHRA or the ADA since an employer is not required to accommodate an employee’s use of medical marijuana.”
Michigan (MCLA 333.26427(c) (2)) specifically states: “Nothing in this act shall be construed to require … [a]n employer to accommodate the ingestion of marihuana in any workplace or any employee working while under the influence of marihuana.” (Yes, the Michigan statute spells “marihuana” differently than do those of other states.)
One could argue, as did the dissenters in Raginwire, that such statutory language does not prohibit the accommodation of off duty, offsite ingestion that does not impair the performance of an employee’s duties. However, the decisions to date have not embraced this reasoning.
In sum, the case law can be anticipated to further develop but does not at this time support a conclusion that the applicable legislation was intended to impose express or implied duties on an employer to accommodate the use of medical marijuana even if the use is off duty and away from the workplace. Moreover, the Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSHA) imposes a “general duty” on employers to provide a safe workplace, which arguably supports excluding individuals who are deemed to be impaired by the use of marijuana.
http://www.law.com/jsp/cc/PubArticleCC.jsp?id=1202445959314&Smokin_With_Reefer_Madness
AY said “First of all one needs to know how to comprehend. Even if they can read they may not understand what it means.”
Good point AY! Maybe you can tell me what this means.
“Many, many companies have a zero tolerance drug policy. These policies were put in place for “public safety”, not as a means of adding another branch of law enforcement. Either the use of marijuana presents a safety concern or it does not. The legality or legitimacy of such use does not eleviate the safety concern.
It sucks, but I don’t see how Wal-Mart had any choice. If they chose to ignore the reason for creating the drug policy, I think it would open them to a lot of law suits from previous employees who lost their jobs after testing positive.”
Answer the question about sadism.
Don’t throw up a blog entry and an unpublished case. That’s hardly good evidence nor is it rational. All that proves is someone else has an opinion that matches your fascist sadism and enough time to blog. And an “unpublished case”? Well if it’s unpublished, where’d you get it? Hmm? An “unpublished case” from MONTANA might as well be bullshit on a shingle for a case IN MICHIGAN.
Why is the choice “treatment” or “employ”?
The man’s job does not put him in a position to endanger others. He was not smoking on company time. No one is harmed here but Mr. Casias.
Why should a corporate policy trump an individual’s right to legal medical treatment? It shouldn’t.
Is corporate policy valid law? No.
Are this man’s rights under HIPPA rights being violated by his being discriminated on based upon his treatment regimen, a treatment which is legal in the state of Michigan? Yes, they are. Wal-Mart has ZERO say in his medical treatment nor did they have a right to inquire before hand. In addition, given Wal-Mart’s pattern of denying coverage to ill employees, this is smells like nothing more than an end run to avoid taking a hit to their SELF-FUNDED health insurance.
Consistency in corporate policy is not the issue.
A corporate policy violating Mr. Casias’ right to a legal medical treatment absent an exigent circumstance like being a position where lives are on the line is the issue.
The bottom line is this: No lives are on the line except Mr. Casias. And you’d rather he suffer a degradation in his quality of life because some Wal-Mart douche bag doesn’t like “the weed” – a legal treatment in Michigan.
Corporate policy does not trump public policy. Unless you’re simply a fascist. By your “logic”, Wal-Mart could decide taking morphine is against corporate policy and fire every employee taking it for legal medical reasons too.
You cannot dig your way out of your stance being poorly thought out knee-jerk corporatist sadism.
All you’ve done is point to open questions from alien jurisdictions and blog entry.
So tell us all again how some corporate nitwit gets to tell people’s doctor’s what treatment they can administer.
Wal-Mart had EVERY choice.
Their (and your) entire argument hinges on corporate policy.
No matter your wishful thinking, corporate policy isn’t the law.
Discrimination is simply that.
If he were just a casual stoner? Sure. No problem.
But Mr. Casias isn’t a casual stoner.
His doctor prescribed MM.
Next time you get ill, why not run your treatment plan in front of your employer. Don’t want to do that? Because it is an invasion of your privacy under HIPPA?
Then maybe you’ll better empathize with the dying man instead of sounding like just another fascist talking head.
Evasion of lawsuits is not a good excuse for discrimination either.
The MMA is not retroactive. The company’s exposure runs from the date of enactment, not the beginning of time. And by all means let’s protect those Wal-Mart profits over, what’s that thing, TREATING A DYING MAN WITH DECENCY AND DIGNITY.
Come on.
Tell us again how poor old Wally World didn’t have a choice.
Because of their fear of lawsuits.
That’s funny. In a very pathetic way.
Let me submit a lesson in reading comprehension. Read it two or three times if necessary. You are welcome quote from the statement below to support your conclusion. You may notice that some past readers have avoided the use of quotations. The primary reason for doing so, is that their conclusion cannot be supported by any of the statements contained in the following two paragraphs.
“Many, many companies have a zero tolerance drug policy. These policies were put in place for “public safety”, not as a means of adding another branch of law enforcement. Either the use of marijuana presents a safety concern or it does not. The legality or legitimacy of such use does not eleviate the safety concern.
It sucks, but I don’t see how Wal-Mart had any choice. If they chose to ignore the reason for creating the drug policy, I think it would open them to a lot of law suits from previous employees who lost their jobs after testing positive.”
Repetition is a key element in comedy.
Even bad comedy.
Who is harmed here?
Can you answer that simple question?
Any answer other than Mr. Casias will disqualify you from Final Jeopardy.
So, if this guy were to have Oxyxodone in his test and he had a script for it, would he have been fired? From first hand experience I would trust someone smoking pot far more than someone gulping Oxy. Why are we still finding THC bad when prescription drug abuse is far far more prevelant?
Buddha/Duh:
I think you both have valid points. Hindsight is always 20/20 but maybe the guy should have gone to management and said hey is there some sort of waiver I can get to use MM. Explained that this was the only thing that gave him relief and then gone on from there. Maybe he could have been moved to a different position for as long as he was able to work.
This is a very hard case and it is easy to come down hard on Wal-Mart as they are a huge company and have deep pockets. But what if this was a small local company that had 50 employees and was owned by a local family, they had had the business for 50 years and over half the people had stock in that company. It provides a living for close to 200 people including family of the people who work there.
Something like this could put a small business out of business along with the livelihood they provide to their employees and their families. For a small company it would be a heart wrenching decision to have to make. I would not want to be the owner under these circumstances.
I cant say for sure but I imagine the manager was none to happy about what happened. But in a way it takes the burden of responsibility and guilt away from direct supervisors by having policies and procedures in place to deal with things like this.
The world is not perfect and this may seem heartless but what if because of a law suit or an unfortunate accident at work some innocent lost their job or were injured or killed because of this employee, then what?
All I can say is I am glad I wasn’t the one making this call. Probably what I would have done is quietly put this guy on paid leave and kept him on the company insurance policy until his death or recovery at which time he could return to work.
Not an easy decision to have to make and the people that are chastising Wal-Mart are rather harsh in their condemnation of Wal-Mart and others who have a differing view point.
One other thing, Wal-Mart has made a good many people rich and allowed many others to retire comfortably and they provide a decent value at a reasonable price for people of limited income. Could they do better, of course, but then couldn’t we all.
Has anyone here condemning Wal-Mart sent money to this poor unfortunate soul? I thought not.
Woefatcat,
“Why are we still finding THC bad when prescription drug abuse is far far more prevelant?”
Ask yourself who gets paid for prescription drug abuse and uses those funds to pay graft, er, lobby with. If Big Pharma could monetize marijuana, it’d be OTC. However, since it’s a weed and practically impossible to kill in nature? Who in their right mind would pay Pfizer for what they can grow in a window box?
Big Pharma is not the only enemy of decriminalization, but they are at the front of the pack for certain.
“Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally on our planet, serves a thousand different functions, all of them positive. To make marijuana against the law is like saying that God made a mistake. Like on the seventh day God looked down, “There it is. My Creation; perfect and holy in all ways. Now I can rest. [Gives shocked expression] Oh, my, Me! I left fuckin’ pot everywhere. I should never have smoked that joint on the third day. Hehe, that was the day I created the platypus. Hehe. But if I leave pot everywhere that’s gonna give people the impression they’re supposed to…use it. Now I have to create Republicans.” “…and God wept”, I believe is the next part of that story.” – Bill Hicks
Byron,
Have any of us sent him money. That’s just adorable.
Who is harmed in this instance? Mr. Casias.
Who would be harmed by a stoned cashier or stock person? No one. I was at the store (not Wal-Mart) today and my cashier was stoned out of his mind. My change was not only correct, it was counted back properly and the service was friendly. I’ll be going back to that store. So inability to stock or check isn’t really an issue in reality, is it? To be clear, Wal-Mart employees only two classes of employee that zero-tolerance should apply to in order to protect third parties from harm and those are pharmacists and pharma-techs. And guess what? Most state’s have provisions to deal with drug abuse in those professions.
“All I can say is I am glad I wasn’t the one making this call. Probably what I would have done is quietly put this guy on paid leave and kept him on the company insurance policy until his death or recovery at which time he could return to work.”
That’d be because you, despite your sometimes right-wing polyanna-ish view of capitalism, can not only spell “compassion” but are actually capable of it. But “corporate policy” sure does give a big rock to hide under, doesn’t it? And is that policy rooted in compassion or fear? Fear, by Wal-Mart’s own admission. Fear of what? Losing money to people they’ve previously screwed over, that’s what. It’s certainly not fear of customer’s being harmed. It’s fear of red ink.
When dealing with issues of quality of life for the terminally ill, a profit motive is simply inhuman and inhumane. Thus, once again, we see the sociopathic nature of raw capitalism.
“two classes at the retail level”
Readers: Next time any of you see anyone making a claim like “His doctor prescribed MM”, give them a funny look and ask them if they know the law.
You see, a doctors ability to prescribe drugs is controlled by the DEA. Marijuana is one of those drugs that the DEA will not permit them to prescribe. That’s because ‘federally speaking’ marijuana is illegal. While doctors in Michigan are required to provide a diagnosis that the patient has one of the limited maladies that would permit the patient to, under state law, possess and use marijuana; the doctor does not prescribe the drug. That means no prescription. Period!
Awwww.
No.
It means there is an unresolved conflict between state and Federal law.
And that’s all it means.
http://leap.cc/cms/index.php
At the state level, many states, led by California, have realized the lie of prohibition.
So why the resistance from the Federal level?
Money. Campaign contributions to be precise. Graft, if one raises the resolution of precision. Money from parties who justify their Federal grants and budgets based on arrest numbers. Money from people who won’t be able to sell their manufactured drugs for ridiculous profits if a cheap natural alternative were available. Money from people who don’t want hemp rope and canvas to replace their more expensive – and bad for the environment – plastics.
In Michigan, it is legal to prescribe medical marijuana. So Mr. Casias does indeed have a prescription that is valid. That he is unable to buy it from a pharmacist is an ancillary issue.
Did I mention money from private prison companies who make money based on how many beds they fill warehousing non-violent drug offenders?
Byron,
What you’re not understanding is that the entire premise permitting drug screening is “safety”. If it was not, it would be viewed as an invasion of privacy. Safety was the reason behind the SCOTUS decisions of Skinner v. Railway Labor Executives’ Assn., 489 U.S. 602 (1989), and National Treasury Employees v. Von Raab, 489 U.S. 656 (1989). They determined that the safety concern outweighed the privacy right. If employers like Wal-Mart abandon the safety premise for one person, they have to abandon it for all who perform the same job. Does his illness make his use of marijuana safer than that same use by one who does not have the illness? No.
While I am sympathetic to Mr. Casias, I don’t see how any employer can ignore a previously recognized and stated safety concern to accomodate individual usage, even if it provides medically recognized relief.
There are at least three reasons why we will continue to see stories like this one. First, as long as federal and state laws on medical marijuana are in conflict, prescription marijuana users will have no protection under federal law and large companies will always opt for policies protected under federal law. Second, the interminable and pointless “war on drugs” has gradually created a cultural mind-set that regards the concept of “medical marijuana” with great suspicion. That attitude, similarly to the still popular view of homosexuality as a moral disorder, will change only after the old guard has died out. Third, zero tolerance policies, whether directed toward drugs or weapons in schools, are designed and implemented in a manner precluding the exercise of discretion (and, consequently, compassion) because institutions, whether private or public, have become large and unwieldy, and bureaucrats do not trust that those charged with enforcing the policies (i.e., lower level bureaucrats) have enough sense to make intelligent distinctions, a not wholly arbitrary assumption when one reviews some of the absurdities that hit this site on a daily basis.
Important Facts About the New Law
Here are some important facts to remember:
•Doctors will not be writing marijuana prescriptions. They will only be attesting to qualifying illnesses.
•The Michigan Department of Community Health will be issuing registration cards that will allow the holder to possess, grow and use a limited amount of marijuana to treat symptoms.
•Abuse of the card, such as possessing or growing amounts that exceed set limits, selling your card or your marijuana or operating a vehicle under the influence, will result in arrest and prosecution.
Mike Appleton,
How do you suggest they overcome the safety concern that was used to invade the employee’s privacy to begin with? Even if they made marijuana legal at the federal level, are we to then expect employers to effectively come out and say they were just kidding about the safety concern?
If he is stoned at work, he does present a legitimate safety concern. I don’t believe that a legitimate safety concern should be ignored in lieu of compassion. Neither privacy nor compassion should outweigh a legitimate safety concern.
I am in support of MM for people that need it. If he is smoking while on the employment site, just like drinking then he should be terminated. Period.
However, there are legitimate reasons that a person would feel free to do in his home that may be legal for some and illegal for other. Tobacco has not been banned and yet there is a third party insurer in Michigan that will terminate you for smoking on your own off duty time. Is this fair?
And it was legal: in Michigan, there’s no law that prevents a boss from firing people virtually at will. At Weyco, that meant no smoking at work, no smoking at home, no smoking period.
http://www.smokersclubinc.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=856
It has occurred in other places the city of Plymouth fired an officer that was promoted after the implementation of this policy.
So where are we going to tell people what they can do on there own off duty time?
Legitimate safety risk according to whom? You? That’s not what his work record reflects and you are hardly credible appealing to your own authority. You saying he’s a safety risk carries no more weight than Wal-Mart saying that in light of the man’s job performance.
And if that Prof can’t handle his high? Well then his discretion in timing is the actual issue, not that he smokes marijuana. “A man’s got to know his limitations.” – Dirty Harry. Too much of anything can make one go loopy. Just like too much drug war propaganda has made you go loopy.
Let me let you in on a little secret. One of the best lawyers I know could smoke Bob Marley under the table. And I mean he’s a real go-getter. You need a zealous bastard to defend you? You got it. He pulls no punches. A real bulldog. He’s so good he’d even make our own beloved Vince break out into a cold sweat.
But . . .
Once he’s off the clock, it’s time to burn. But if he’s dealing with clients or work issues, he’d no sooner light one up than he’d down a pint of vodka before going to court. He exercises discretion and doesn’t smoke at work.
Just like Mr. Casias. Who isn’t, unlike my friend, a recreational user. He’s taking marijuana as medicine.
Apples and oranges.
I’ll say it again real slow so you’ll understand.
Medical.
Necessity.
Properly used.
You cannot make this case in any way, despite your weak protests of sympathy, without sounding like a Wal-Mart spokesperson. Which is to say a corporatist sadist.
Again, powder and perfume just make bullshit stink differently. But it still stinks.
Have I mentioned hemp makes better quality paper than wood pulp, requires considerably less processing (e.g. toxic chemicals) and produces a low-acid strong durable paper that is superior to wood paper in every way? And it comes from a natural resource that is renewable multiple times within a year. A year old tree on the other hand? It wouldn’t make enough paper to justify the fuel wasted cutting it down.
Duh, no one is suggesting that any company ignore safety concerns. There was nothing (apparently) in the personnel records of the individual in question to suggest that he had created safety concerns. Medical marijuana would be treated like any other prescribed medication by employers. Moreover, I believe that there is a great deal of misinformation and hyperbole, i.e., progaganda, constantly circulating regarding the use of marijuana. It is an issue that tends to be addressed emotionally rather than rationally.
bUDDHA:
I went to the knitting shop last night with my wife and was looking at all of the different yarns they offer. They make yarn out of milk, Australian possum, beaver, fox, bamboo, soy milk, silk, wool and yes you guessed correctly “hemp” as in grass as in Mary Jane.
The ladies are bat sh. . . . t crazy, one asked me to strip. I told them I would be back next week with a possum codpiece.
And I thought knitters were reserved wall flowers, whod have thunk.
Mike Appleton,
If the use of marijuana does not present a legitimate safety concern, how can an employer violate one’s privacy by making urinalysis a condition of employment. If the link has not already been established, how can the employer get away with even making it a condition of employment? What’s next; and STD free work place. “We test ‘em, if’n we see ‘em itch”
Zero Tolerance Jobs that are appropriate:
Surgeons
Pilots
Train Engineers
Nuclear and Other Power Plant workers
Livery Drivers (Bus/Cab/Limo/etc.)
OTR Truckers (now you want to talk about a bunch of druggies . . . and I don’t mean pot either)
Child care providers
This is hardly a comprehensive list, but what do they all have in common?
Other people’s lives are in their hands. Being impaired by ANY chemical substance makes them inherently dangerous.
A Wal-Mart employee not working in the pharmacy or driving a big rig?
Not so much.
Mike Appleton:
it f . . . ks me up something fierce
I have deleted a couple of comments from this thread. Once again, please stop the personal attacks. Enough.
Byron,
I had some roommates in college who were fine art and design majors. One of them dated a textiles major. That gal could party. I’ll just say your story, while it made me laugh (can we get some 8×10 glossies of you in that possum codpiece? lol), I cannot say I am shocked they are not the wallflowers you expected.
Thanks Professor! I’m sure the civility won’t last. It never does, and the sources are usually the same. With the exception of “Gerty”, this place has been pretty civil lately. Sure, discussions get heated, but personal attacks are few and far between. It takes everyone saying “Enough”. I’ve heard that adults are capable of such.
And here I thought we were playing nicely.
And passive-aggression suits you well, Duh.
But don’t worry. I’m not offended by that.
I think it’s funny.
Duh:
this is actually pretty civil to tell you the truth. These advocates can be quite devilish
Duh:
I actually wish Gerty would come back. when he got going he had some pretty good stuff to say, very insightful.
You would know . . . Bron. lol
I’ll say this for you, my man. You can take some heat. You can dish it out, but man can you take a punch. Make Ali in Zaire proud of your rope-a-dope skills.
Ya know sometimes it is good when I go to the Movies or Grill outside. I missed so much.
AY,
You think you missed a lot…I’m just now getting time to sit and read….I could be here all night!!!!
I think if Walmart started drug testing all of it’s employees nation wide for drugs that can alter one’s mind, their stores would be completely unstaffed. The pharmacuticals are convincing Doctors across this continent to poison patients on a daily basis with narcotics, unnecesary use of statins, blood pressure medications ( both statins and blood pressure medications are now first response treatments in newly diagnosed diabetics whether they have high BP/cholesterol levels or not )anti depressants, anti anxieties, psychotropic, benzotropines,etc etc etc…. and somehow this is ok. However when a man is using MM ( a treatment for which pharmacuticals receive 0 $$$ ) to treat symptoms of a horrific disease it becomes ok to fire that man from his job? If anyone believes that marijuana alters one’s mind any more than most of the drug classes listed above they know nothing about medication side & adverse affects!!
Canadian Eh.,
If I remember correctly, it makes one grow a tail. I heard that in a Cheech and Chong movie so it has to be true..
lol….AY I wish I could actually remember any of the C&C movies that I saw as a teenager…unfortunately I was medicated while watching! Hmmm….oddly enough I don’t have a tail.
Canadian,
“If anyone believes that marijuana alters one’s mind any more than most of the drug classes listed above they know nothing about medication side & adverse affects!!”
Or marijuana either.
Most people who criticize it have never smoked it. If they had, they’d realize the propaganda is exactly that: propaganda.
Buddah…
Absolutely agree!
AY,
That was only the “special stash”. And the tail was the least side effect. It turned poor Stacey Keach into a lizard.
Marijuana by itself is, as Douglas Adams might say, “Mostly Harmless”.
Canadian Eh,
Where permitted by law, Wal-Mart does drug test all applicants.
“I understand that Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. has a commitment to maintain an alcohol/drug-free workplace and that Wal-Mart Stores, Inc., unless prohibited by state law, requires a drug screening test as a part of its selection and hiring process.”
https://hiringcenter.walmartstores.com/OnlineHiringCenter/disclaimers2.jsp
They also test after injuries where drug use is suspected, and they test before promotions.
It either is a safety concern that outweighs privacy, or it is not. If it is not a safety concern the answer is to prohibit employees from being tested.
From personal experience; working stoned should be considered a safety concern. I keep looking for the directions to “proper use”, but there is no writing on the baggie. Dude
There are any number of legally prescribed and over-the-counter medications that can impair a person’s abilty to function–yet people don’t get fired if they take them.
“There are any number of legally prescribed and over-the-counter medications that can impair a person’s abilty to function”.
Could you please name some? The weekend is just around the corner.
I just want the over-the-counter drugs that will leave me seriously impaired.
Duh,
Start with NyQuil. Work your way to cough syrups.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16311712/
Duh,
I understand the policy that Walmart has, however my point is that there are far more pharmacuticals that alter one’s mind than marijuana and many, in far worse ways. I recently suffered a permanent back injury following a car accident and was prescribed 2 narcotics, and a mucle relaxer for pain management. I experienced very little pain management while using this cocktail, I also had a difficult time remembering simple words during conversation, was unable to stay awake for longer than 2 hours at a time, and my typically sunny personality clouded over with the blackest clouds that I’ve ever experienced. When I conjured up enough sense to stop taking my Dr. prescribed, pharmacutically developed cocktail it took weeks for my brain to start functioning properly again. I have a friend who has a similar back injury ( c-spine rather than L-spine ) who uses MM for pain management and functions in a very normal routine on a daily basis. Marijuana, when used medicinally works in the body in a very different way than when used recreationally, the same is true for any drug. There in lies the problem with the decision made by Walmart and any other company with the same philosphy.
Both of which create far more impairment than marijuana. Oh, and they’ll kill you if you take to much. Marijuana? You literally cannot smoke enough to get a toxic dose. Or eat enough for that matter. No one has ever died from marijuana overdose. The same cannot be said of either alcohol or nicotine, both OTC drugs.
OK. Who is willing to put their children or grandchildren on a bus driven by a stoned busdriver?
Anyone who doesn’t volunteer; How are you going to explain the mother of the child whose fingers got smashed between a couple of shopping carts, because you had compassion for the terminally ill employee, and decided that his being stone was acceptable for compassionate medical reasons.
I can’t have compassion for one at the expense of others.
Canadian Eh said “Marijuana, when used medicinally works in the body in a very different way than when used recreationally, the same is true for any drug.”
Can you point me to some referrence to support that? I’ve gotten stoned when I was nauseated, tired, coffee buzzed, fishing, drunk, sober, etc. I’ve even been stoned while blogging. I always felt “stoned”. Appearing to function normally, and functioning at full capacity are two different things. Have you ever tried to play “frisbee” while stoned? I won’t even attempt to play a video game while stoned. It just takes too much effort.
Hell. I’ve been so high on gooey sticky green bud that it took me three tries to get up my driveway. I was already in the car, it was a dry summer evening, and my driveway is only a 10 degree grade.
When you were all meesed up on drugs, did you drive a car? Do you think you would have wanted your children to ride with someone in that condition?
“Cannabis has a very high LD50 (about 1500 lbs smoked over 15 minutes) (49). The LD50 is the lethal dose for dose for half (50%) of the animals exposed to a drug: LD = “lethal dose”. It is therefore comparatively difficult to die from an overdose of this drug.
However, cannabis should not be considered a harmless drug that has no toxicity. It has a number of physiological effects that can be hazardous, beyond the potential of damage that smoke can cause. Most of the adverse effects are within the range tolerated for most medications (50). Most of these effects in overdose are extreme forms described in short term adverse effects.
Rare acute complications (such as panic attacks, psychosis, convulsions, etc.) that present to the Emergency Department can be managed with conservative measures (51). Signs and symptoms with smoked marihuana are an extension of the psychotomimetic and physiologic effects of THC. These effects may be more pronounced and last longer with an oral overdose. If disturbing symptoms occur at the prescribed dosage, the patient should be closely observed in a quiet environment and supportive measures should be used.”
From http://medicalmarijuanainformation.com/precautions/toxicity.php
In other words, the effective dose (ED) of marijuana is about 1000 times smaller than the median lethal dose (LD50).
Compare to alcohol toxicity which is LD50 at 7,060 mg/kg. This is only ten times the ED of alcohol.
Compare to nicotine toxicity which is lethal at 50 mg/kg. While you cannot OD on nicotine via smoking alone, smoking in conjunction with patches or gum could easily kill you. And liquid nicotine, a common insecticide, can kill you from dermal contact as it’s easily absorbed through your skin.
Hands down, marijuana is a safer drug than booze or Marlboros.
Does marijuana have side effects? Yes it does. But they are mild comparatively speaking. The worst side effects are from the smoking itself, but there are ways to smoke (i.e. low temperature vaporizers) that deliver the THC from the crystal structures on the leaf surface but leave behind the tars in the plant material proper.
Wow, I have tried twice to post a list of drugs for you Duh, and the list won’t post. Strange.
To answer your question….I would have to look for the support references to be honest. I just don;t have the energy left in me tonight to do that, but I will tomorrow. I have taken several pharmacutical courses over the years, and have to be aware of this type of information in the work that I do. I actually work with a wonderful knowledgeable Psychiatrist on a professional basis and have had this similar conversation ( how medications work in the body ) with him on occasion.
Did I drive…no, not for the period of time that i was off of work….way too dangerous. I did however continue to take the cocktail once I returned to work at night for a short period of time and did drive during the day…in retrospect I should not have.
With regard to the school bus driver question…no I wouldn’t want my kids riding on a bus with anyone who was ” strung out ” on anything. However using MM medicinally does not render a person ” strung out “.
Duh,
I submit your chemistry is simply not right for it. Like any drug, individual reactions may vary. Some people can take aspirin, others it’ll kill ‘em.
Duh,
In re: bus drivers.
See my comment about zero tolerance appropriate jobs.
Plus, I’ll be trying to post Canadian’s list for her as soon as she e-mails it to me.
As ever, one lives to be of service.
Here is Canadian’s list:
Lithium – Metformin – Glyburide – Tylenol (1,2 & 3) – Oxycodine – Codine – Morphine – Percocet – Flexeril – Arthrotec – Risperidone – Lithium – Ritalin – Statera – Concerta – Epival – Clonazepam – Atavan – Oxazepam – Imovane – Prozac – Effexcor – Zoloft – HRT medications – Birth control pills – Chemotherapy – Radiation
Thanks for your help Buddah!!!
Buddha, thanks for your assistance.
Canadian Eh, what is that list representative of?
Duh…..
” Could you please name some? The weekend is just around the corner ”
You asked me for a list
Over 100 posts! Wow! This story is just one more example of Wal-Mart being Wal-Mart! They have a history of abusive handling of employees. What is one more!
Canadian,
Are you sure that the “cocktail” that you mentioned just had the name “LaBatts” on it??
stoners might eat up walmart’s profits
Rafflaw…
Now that made me laugh…I can assure you however, even as a Canadian, if I was drinking beer…it would be Coors!
“I submit your chemistry is simply not right for it.”
ROTFLMAO
Try to explain that to the 3 people laughing uncontrollably while watching me. 
I’ve gotten stoned with people from all over the world. For the most part we all have the same reaction. We get happy, and we laugh at some really stupid stuff. Only rarely have I seen people beome mean stoned. (I had a date do that once. I don’t know if it would have happened a second time.)
From what I have observed, only the regular “stoners” can be considered “functional” while stoned. For most people, they don’t seem to be able to accomplish much while stoned.
Maybe we should suggest it for Tiger Woods. He’d still want to cheat, but I bet he’d lack the motivation. Not to worry; it looks like Sandra Bullock might be available soon. I got that going for me. Which is nice.
Canadian,
Is Coors allowed in Canada?
Duh,
In re: Sandra
What did she expect marrying a guy with “Pay Here, Sucker!” tattooed on his hand? I have nothing against tattoos, but come on.
And get in line.
And I suggest that what you see is individual reaction in action. I know people who can have ten drinks and be just as they are sober albeit a bit slurred. I know people who can have ONE drink and it makes them . . . beg to get beaten by their obnoxiousness.
Everyone’s body chemistry is different.
Raffalw….
Are you kidding me….it’s Canada no beer is off limits here!!
Canadian Eh,
Elaine M. said “There are any number of legally prescribed and over-the-counter medications that can impair a person’s abilty to function”.”
I said ”Could you please name some? The weekend is just around the corner ”
You said “You asked me for a list”
LOL. You’re gonna have AY thinking that you’re Elaine M. and bdaman and me.
On a serious note. Is “radiation” a drug? And why is Tylenol on the list?
Canadian,
I stand corrected,heh!
Tylenol 1,2,& 3 here contain codiene here. I guess technically radiation isn’t a drug.
and my appologies Duh, I thought you were posing that question to me.
Their zero tolerance policy against MM wouldn’t have anything with their founder’s desire to find “creative ways to share the Christian faith in local communities,” would it?
(From Sam Walton’s Wikipedia entry – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Walton)
“Walton supported various charitable causes, including those of his church, the Presbyterian Church (USA). The Sam and Helen R. Walton Award was created in 1991 when the Waltons made a gift of $6 million which included an endowment in the amount of $3 million to provide annual awards to new church developments that are working in creative ways to share the Christian faith in local communities.”
PS. I wonder if they randomly drug test the executives in Bentonville, you know, for safety reasons, or if it’s just the $15/hr and under crowd that they’re interested in terrorizing?
Weed and cocaine ain’t never gonna be legal anywhere cuz it would give a lot of money to black countries and the US doesn’t want that.
So instead, they try to fix you up with one of their legal drugs every night in the commercial: “Are you depressed? Are you lonely? Are you overactive? Are you tired? Are you human? Well, we got a lovely drug that’ll make it all better and get you better sex too.” Not.
This people couldn’t see the moral issue in their mass sale of bullets, bloody morons.
Wow, interesting thread!
Please forgive me, for pointing out what may be obvious, but many common physical states can significantly impair a person’s ability to function, independent of consumption of drugs, be they recreational or prescribed, such as: sleep deprivation and fatigue, pain, dehydration, abnormal temperature (Hyper/Hypothermia), electrolyte imbalance (sodium, potassium), extreme emotional states (anger, grief, fear, anxiety) etc.
In addition, there are millions of individuals “functioning” with undiagnosed conditions/diseases which are often not detected until their “impairment” puts themselves and potentially others at risk. For example: diabetes(with unregulated glucose and other abnormal blood chemistry), liver failure(with high ammonia), kidney disease (with high nitrogenous waste), HIV/AIDS, Alzheimer’s and many other diseases often cause significant neurological and cognitive deficits even in the early stages.
Let alone the millions of individuals whose functioning is often significantly impaired, albeit usually temporarily, when they contract extremely common infections, viral or bacterial, i.e. colds, flu, strep, staph, Lyme etc.
If they happen to be Walmart employees they usually still have to come into work, as Walmart is well known for their very punitive policies.
Given the list above, of potential states a person may be in, at any given moment in time, does anyone really believe, that random drug testing offers any real assurance that an employee is fully functional and not functionally impaired?
Especially, when you factor in the usual delays in blood sampling, reporting of results, and lags in employer action.
I certainly don’t; it takes way more than random drug testing to ensure Walmart is creating a safe work environment.
Walmart is just plain wrong! Again!
Just from the previous examples posted here on this blog, there is plenty to demonstrate that Walmart doesn’t do enough proactively to protect its’ associates and customers.
Walmart does not care about their employees well being!
They only care about money, duh!
My respect and compassion for Mr Casias is enormous; I hope he has some action against Walmart as his firing has probably left him without any benefits like Cobra or unemployment insurance. His future job prospects, post firing, in this labor market are not very good. If Walmart was not so damn heartless they could have offered him a different position or placed him on medical leave.
I Loathe Walmart and all they represent.
“The same cannot be said of either alcohol or nicotine, both OTC drugs.”
If I remember correctly nicotine is closely related to Strychnine.
CEJ,
I agree with you that Wal-Mart is a boil on society’s cheeks.
“We’re sympathetic to Mr. Casias’ condition, but like other companies, we have to consider the overall safety of our customers and associates, including Mr. Casias, when making a difficult decision like this.”
******************
Living on a planet adapted for human life on only a small portion of its surface, amid a hostile environment with causes a staggering amount of social problems which are exacerbated even more by an insidious assortment of human frailties, I find such cynical noncooperation by one group of humans against another human decidedly irrational and “unsafe”, all notions of ethics aside. Most social animals care for their own out of self-preservation, if nothing else. Walmart: “Save Money, Exist Alone,” It’s Dickensian.
mespo,
In Re, your statement above.
“‘If everybody minded their own business,’ the Duchess said, in a hoarse growl, ‘the world would go around a great deal faster than it does.’”
- Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland, Ch. 5
“‘Perhaps it hasn’t one,’ Alice ventured to remark. “‘Tut, tut, child!’ said the Duchess. ‘Everything’s got a moral, if only you can find it.’”
- Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland, Ch. 9
AY:
“if up is down and down is up and words mean the opposite of what they do, it would be hard to talk if you were down and I was up”
Thank you Byron but where is this quote from? I have seen it but cannot recall the Book verse exactly as such…..
Why don’t you try some OTC speed such as the effy tabs and down some nyquil add a little liquor and you’ll be set duh.
Duh–
I said: “There are any number of legally prescribed and over-the-counter medications that can impair a person’s abilty to function”.
You asked: “Could you please name some? The weekend is just around the corner.”
**********
If your medicine cabinet can’t provide you with what you’re looking for, you may want to head for the kitchen and see if you have a bog bottle of vanilla extract in the cupboard! That’s one “weeked medication” that will leave you with a sweet-smelling breath, doncha know!
Spelling Correction:
If your medicine cabinet can’t provide you with what you’re looking for, you may want to head for the kitchen and see if you have a BIG bottle of vanilla extract in the cupboard! That’s one “weeked medication” that will leave you with a sweet-smelling breath, doncha know!
“Save Money, Exist Alone”
ROFLOL
That’s a gem, mespo.
Elaine M.,
Sorry to disappoint, but my medicine cabinet contains only aspirin and alka seltzer plus cold medicine, and I currenlty have no vanilla (I’m not much of a baker). I’m an extremely healthy 50+. I’m a big believer of “anything in moderation” within limits. Drinking plenty of water, I think, is the key to good health.
“Avoid all needle drugs. The only dope worth shooting is Richard Nixon.”
Abbie Hoffman
AY: Remember what the doormouse said, Feed your head!
pardon me,
I just listened to the song you posted.
Snorting coffee out of one’s nose is an interesting experience.
“Legal medical marijuana” is an oxymoron!
Watch for Lawrence Welk info.
Pardon Me,
that was a great video of a great song. I didn’t know about the Lawrence Welk episode!
Happy Vernal Equinox!
Yeah,
it is supposed to be Spring, but after a nice warm week in Northern Illinois, we got 2-3 inches of wet slushy snow overnight and it continues today. Yuk.
Poor people shop at Wal Mart. There’s the reason the left hates it.
It’s like how the left is always mocking people who live in trailers and mobile homes. I guess they want people to live on the streets so leftists can use them as tools to beat the republicans with.