Power Play: Arizona Utility Commissioner Threatens To Cut Off Power to Los Angeles If City Boycotts State

Arizona Corporation Commission member Gary Pierce has threatened that the state may cut off power to Los Angeles if that city goes forward with a boycott of his state over its controversial immigration law. The city gets 25 percent of its power from Arizona.

In his letter, Pierce stated:

If an economic boycott is truly what you desire, I will be happy to encourage Arizona utilities to renegotiate your power agreements so Los Angeles no longer receives any power from Arizona-based generation.

I am confident that Arizona’s utilities would be happy to take those electrons off your hands. If, however, you find that the City Council lacks the strength of its convictions to turn off the lights in Los Angeles and boycott Arizona power, please reconsider the wisdom of attempting to harm Arizona’s economy.

Here is the full letter to the Mayor: Letter to LA

For the full story, click here.

59 thoughts on “Power Play: Arizona Utility Commissioner Threatens To Cut Off Power to Los Angeles If City Boycotts State

  1. Ouch, well can somebody explain to me what the statement means. “The light are on but nobody is home?” The only question is this after INS/ICE came?

  2. I anxiously await the decision of Mr. Pierce to become the most hated man in California — probably the nation if someone on life support dies.

  3. A couple of things the chest-thumping, “My d*cks bigger than your d*ck” Pierce doesn’t get:

    California is part owner of most of the entities that provides the power.

    California purchases approximately 25% of its power from AZ – it could just purchase it from another state, and AZ ends up losing in the end.

    It’s not brain surgery.

  4. This is faction, that deadly thing James Madison loathed. The jerks who oppose the new Arizona law started it.

    Immigration is dividing us because that is the plan.


    The whole purpose of union since 1787 was to avoid state on state retaliation and give the individual states a means for cooperation. Snub will lead to snub, offense to offense, to blows. This is always how it goes.

    Council on Foreign Relation members want Americans to hate each other in order to justify the need for a police-state. Joe Biden and John McCain are among the CFR’s longest standing members and so you see that the CFR usually always gets their man (or a relative of their man) in White House Their goal is the elimination of the nation-state and abolition of sovereign borders.

    They do this without our permission. It violates the laws of nations, the right for a people to self-determination.

    Best way to overthrow America right now is to import tens and tens of millions of disloyal, ignorant, uneducated, ungrateful, arrogant, barbaric, and poorly assimilating foreign hostiles from nearby lands who do not have America’s best interests (like accepting immigration laws) in mind or heart.

    Make sure they have a high crime rate and no life of the mind.

    Status of the US Government’s genocide of Americans of European descent: going swimmingly.

  5. Paranoid much, Tootles?

    Listen up, screwhead.

    Who benefits most from illegal immigration?


    Because they can pay substandard wages and no benefits.

    Who is businesses BFF?

    The Neocon Right Wing GOP.

    Because there is no love greater for them than the love of money – especially their own. Who cares about the Constitution? That’s a rhetorical question, because clearly neither party gives a damn about the Constitution anymore as long as they let that torture ordering traitor Cheney walk free. Hooked on cheap labor, the greedy right brought this on themselves over many years.

    Now? It’s teabagger time.

    The people who “brought this on” are the racist jackasses in AZ trying to usurp the Federal governments role in the regulation of immigration. I’ll even stipulate the Feds are doing the job so poorly that something needs to change, but the change required is not to revert to a draconian police state where driving while brown is now officially a cause to stop someone and demand “Papers please.”

  6. As to the threats of the AZ Power Commissioner, I’m sure he’ll enjoy his next job as a half-assed mob enforcer too stupid to realize that power can be rerouted and purchased elsewhere. Like vlf2112 said, this isn’t brain surgery. Which is good since the State of Arizona has a rocket surgeon in the operation room of the Power Commission.

  7. Politicians are in a contest to see who can be the biggest jerk.

    Rand Paul would ok denying people of the “inferior race” to eat with the “superior race” at Diners and restaurants.

    Clearly, dementia is spreading.

  8. Jack Conway the democratic candidate is out saying Rand Paul is too “extreme” for Kentucky. Who knows? It just depends on who shows up to vote. I have noticed Rick Perry is not commenting on the Arizona law.

  9. Buddha, perhaps they can buy from elsewhere but that is unlikely to meet their needs because electrical production is a limited system. It isn’t necessarily limited because of flow, but because there are limited power generating facilities.

    electrical Cooperatives “buy” excess power from power companies because the excess electricity is very hard to store. The reason there is excess electricity is because gauging how much power is needed at any given time is not so easy AND each power producer has a fairly exact limited capacity. In other words full capacity is full capacity. No more power can be generated after full capacity is reached (unless the power plant is enlarged).

    Sometimes there isn’t enough power to buy (like when there is bad weather or downed lines). And other cities and towns already have contracts to buy this excess power. LA would be put to the back of the line.

    There are probably few alternatives for LA without building new power plants (a long-term project requiring an insane amount of compliance to crazy left-wing regulations). And since leftists in California hate this sort of thing which causes them to look elsewhere for their electrical needs, they have put themselves over a barrel.

  10. “Best way to overthrow America right now is to import tens and tens of millions of disloyal, ignorant, uneducated, ungrateful, arrogant, barbaric, and poorly assimilating foreign hostiles from nearby lands who do not have America’s best interests (like accepting immigration laws) in mind or heart”

    This is precisely the kind of hate and bigotry that brought this idiotic law into being in the first place and the reason it rightly brings the reactions it has. Thank you, Tootie, for exposing it to for all to see.

    The racism virtually spews from the AZ law as it does from Tootie’s keyboard. Never mind the millions of legal immigrants and American citizens potentially caught up in Tootie’s sickness and the laws Constitutional flaws. Let’s just ignore the reality of the hardworking, honest people who do our lowliest jobs without complaint. They clean the toilets in our homes and hotels and businesses, do construction and landscape work in the blistering AZ heat. They do the backbreaking work of picking our fruits and vegetables. They are sought after laborers and tilers, bricklayers, even craftsmen and artisans in wood and stone. Most toil silently and lawfully to not raise their profile. These are the folks I see in AZ.

    There is one potentially positive aspect to even this virulent strain of anti-immigrantion. If all the illegals left the job market, American employers would be forced to hire more Americans and they would have to pay more instead of depressing wages by exploiting the illegals they encourage to come across the border. This will significantly strengthen labor unions, especially in the service industries (restaurants, healthcare, janitorial, etc.). Lettuce will be $10 a head, but that’s the goal of the AZ law, isn’t it?

  11. And you insist on framing this as a left/right issue when it isn’t, Tootles. But if you want to frame it that way, I’m game.

    Let’s start with the Right Wing asshat in the position of AZ Power Commissioner is interfering with the powers of both the Governor of AZ to set the tone and subject matter for interstate relations as well as the Federal government’s interest in interstate commerce and has decided to overstep the boundaries of his job description in an attempt to blackmail the State of California.

    We can work our way to criminal charges for him from there.

    I’d also like to add at this point that you clearly know squat about power distribution. Short supplies and downed lines are always a hazard even under optimal conditions. None of this stops CA from buying power elsewhere. Over a barrel?

    The only person over a barrel here is Gary Pierce and he bent over it all by himself by overstepping his boundaries and his actual powers of office.

  12. I’ve read the letter. I suggest to Mr. Pierce that many people believe that the passage of SB 1070 was not an exercise in “goodwill.”

    Arizona politicians must be required to take a course in pandering. I don’t know what’s coming up on the juvenile Arizona agenda, but look for the possibility of food fights at the next western governors’ conference.

  13. http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/05/19/phoenix-police-immigration

    In the words of Paul Dobson, Phoenix police officer:

    “This [SB-1070] law will make me feel like a Nazi out there. […] How I feel about SB-1070 is I have a great deal of contempt for it, I am very emotional about it. This law is pure and simple a racist law. It is focused on Latinos. I would not be able to show any discretion whatsoever under SB-1070. I am required to arrest that person and take them to jail. As a law enforcement officer I am required to serve and protect. Under SB-1070, I know that people will not call officers in case of a real emergency. […] It violates our calling to serve and protect.”

    Well what do you know? One commissioner oversteps his boundaries in support of the right wing Neocon racist Nazis and one good cop stands up for justice. Guess which one will be the “Good American” when this is all over, Tootles? Hint: It’s not Gary Pierce.

  14. they have put themselves over a barrel.

    Tootie, don’t you mean in front of :)

    I shot the sheriff

    but it was because of no e-lec tric-ity .

  15. Notice a trend about all these bills since January 2009 that nobody reads but they know all about.

    You could be at an ice cream parlor with your kids and, and, a officer could walk up to you and ask to see your birth certificate, how ironic from the man that won’t show you his original.

    Holder hasn’t read Ariz. immigration bill


    Napolitano Admits She Hasn’t Read Arizona Immigration Law in ‘Detail’


    Anybody here read the bill?

  16. Immigrant crossings into Arizona on the rise

    By OLGA R. RODRIGUEZ (AP) – 1 day ago

    NOGALES, Mexico — The migrants walk for days through miles of mesquite scrub, running low on food and sometimes water, paying armed drug thug “guides” and dodging U.S. law enforcement officers along the way. And still they keep coming.

    The latest figures show that Arizona, which is about to put into effect the nation’s toughest immigration law, also is the only border state where illegal crossings are on the rise.

    While tightened security and daunting fences in Texas and California have made Arizona a busy crossing corridor for years, migrant smugglers now are finding new ways through the state’s treacherous deserts.

    Carmen Gonzalez, 27, recalled seven days and six nights of walking with her husband in the desert and being accosted by Mexican thugs with AK-47s, who demanded $100 bribes. They were later arrested at a safe house in Arizona.


  17. Homeland Security Alert: Terror suspect may be headed to Texas through Mexico

    by Shern-Min Chow / 11 News


    Posted on May 18, 2010 at 7:40 AM

    HOUSTON — A Homeland Security Alert is asking Houston police and Harris County Sheriff’s deputies to keep their eyes open for a potential terrorist.

    The alert focuses on Mohamed Ali, a suspected member of the terrorist group Al Shabaab. It indicates he may be traveling to the U.S. through Mexico.

    Al Shabaab is a terrorist group based in Somalia with links to the Somali attacks dramatized in the movie “Blackhawk Down.” A few months ago, the group announced its allegiance to Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden.

    “[Al Shabaab operatives] are certainly a real threat to U.S. security and an increasing threat to U.S. security,” said Rice University Baker Institute Fellow Joan Neuhaus Schaan. Schaan is an expert on Homeland Security and terrorism, and her research is reviewed by the U.S. government, military and civil authorities.

    She said Al-Shabaab trains extremists and wants to turn Somalia into the next Afghanistan.

    “Similar to the set up in Afghanistan in 2001 when Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden had a strong relationship with the Taliban that allowed them free reign in Afghanistan,” Neuhas Schaan said.

    The route from Somalia to Texas is shorter than Americans would like to think. It goes through Mexico. Two weeks ago, a federal indictment was filed in San Antonio against a Somali citizen. It alleges Ahmed Muhammed Dhakane led a “large-scale smuggling enterprise,” moving east Africans into the U.S., including members of a terrorist group called AIAI.

    “It was hundreds of individuals,” Neuhaus Schaan said, in referrence to the indictment.

    The current indictment has three counts for making false statements in regard to immigration for allegedly lying about his ties to terrorist groups. The U.S. Attorney’s office in the Western District indicates the investigation is ongoing.

    Why would Al Shabaab come to the U.S?

    “Either to recruit provide more funding or serve as operatives or sleepers for some future activity,” Neuhaus Schaan said.

    It’s not a melodramatic spy movie. It’s reality. In 2007, former Houstonian Daniel Joseph Maldonado was brought back to Houston by the U.S Attorney in the Southern District after he was captured in Somalia reportedly training with terrorist groups.

    “He had initially been on the frontlines of Al Shabaab, but when they realized he was an American, they pulled him back because they had plans for him to come back to the U.S. and recruit female suicide bombers,” said Neuhaus Schaan.

    U.S. Homeland Security officials confirmed the Muhamed Ali alert, but declined to comment on it. They did not indicate that this report would jeopardize any ongoing investigation.

    If authorities are right, Mohamed Ali is hardly alone and a terror network is following well-worn human smuggling routes into the Lone Star State.

    “There would be a reasonable chance to have him [Mohamed Ali] coming through Houston,” Neuhaus Schaan said. “They [Al Shabaab] have been pretty busy in Texas.”


  18. Girl Outs Mother’s Citizenship Status During First Lady’s School Visit

    A second-grader may have unwittingly blown the whistle on her mother’s citizenship status during Michelle Obama’s visit to a Silver Spring, Md., school — and right in front of Mexico’s first lady.

    Margarita Zavala joined Mrs. Obama for a visit to New Hampshire Estates Elementary School Wednesday.

    During a question-and-answer session, one girl took her immigration concerns to the top, telling Mrs. Obama that her mom says that “Barack Obama is taking everybody away that doesn’t have papers.”

    The first lady replied that they have to make sure people living in the United States have the proper citizenship papers.


  19. Close the borders. With all this government take over of private industry they might as well take over the border, it’s an industry all of it’s own.

  20. Toots,

    Pierce can threaten until the cows come home – the fact of the matter is that CA owns a stake in many of the power plants Pierce is threatening to cut it off from. He is also oblivious to the fact that if CA were to go elsewhere, he’s only shooting his own state in its figurative foot. Pierce doesn’t get that 2+2 doesn’t = 5.

    It’s really isn’t a difficult concept to comprender. Really, it isn’t.


    “I shot the sheriff”

    As long as it was Arpaio :)

  21. vlf2112 I was gonna put that but if it ever happened it could be taken as a confession to the crime :)

  22. “Best way to overthrow America right now is to import tens and tens of millions of disloyal, ignorant, uneducated, ungrateful, arrogant, barbaric, and poorly assimilating foreign hostiles from nearby lands who do not have America’s best interests (like accepting immigration laws) in mind or heart.”

    ….and show them that what they were told by their fascist extremist anti-populace governments that use them like fodder is not true. That we are a free Nation that does NOT exploit the poverty stricken in favour of the ever gluttonous machine, that we do NOT throw out our elderly after stripping them of everything they have worked for, that we do NOT support, condone or use torture to sate our fear driven social and economic stratis, that we do NOT use terror tactics, pre-emptive garbage, sneaky manipulations and etc., that we ARE, in short, the Country that we fought to be all along….

  23. I assume there is a contract between the Power company and the City of Los Angeles. Is Pierce in the position where he can abrogate the contract whenever he feels like it.

  24. Buddha: You are under the mistaken notion that democrats are not business men and women. You must be an old timer.

    Just off the top of my head (clean and shampooed) I can think of the a handful leftist gazillionaires: Bill Gates, Peter Lewis, Teresa Heinz Kerry, George Soros, Warren Buffet. Gates sat before congress and LIED about the need for foreign workers and democrats gobbled it up. Then there is Google, Hollywood, the universities, and all the other left-wing industries.

    You do realize that leftist colleges and universities begged the government for unlimited visas to fill up their faculty? Yes, I’m sure you do realize this because you are so smart and everyone knows it.

    This leftist treachery stabs American scholars in the back and makes getting a good education (which the Obama admin is promoting for minorities) IRRELEVANT. Why get a good education if government is going to give your job to a foreigner?

    To imply that democrats don’t want cheap labor is to expose your ignorance.

    Virtually all of the filthy rich fat cats mentioned above advocate the influx of foreigners which cut our wages and destroy our culture. Please inform yourself, if democrats wanted to stop destroying our jobs they would stop destroying our jobs.

    Filthy rich democrats spent a billion dollars electing a rich, pampered, elitist lawyer to the presidency who did just about nothing all his life to prepare for it. They love big money! And that rich fat cat wants the cheap uneducated peasants (or as former Yew of Singapore called them in his interview with Charlie Rose: “Fruit Pickers”).

    Obama and the dems need the “fruit pickers” to retain power for the democratic party by bribing them for votes with welfare handouts. That’s another word for treason. As LEAST the republican businessman just wants a quick buck. The democrat businessman wants genocide.

    Both parties are guilty of the genocide via immigration, but the only resistance to it at this time is from the republican RANK AND FILE and from Tea Party members.

    “CHARLIE ROSE: And immigration has been America’s strength?

    LEE KUAN YEW: Absolutely. But mind you, immigration of the highly intelligent and highly-hard working, very hard working people. If you get immigration of the fruit pickers, you may not get very far.”


    We are a nation of immigrants all right, but the success everyone is pointing to is a nation of immigrants who had the same background and ethnic origins of those already here.

    We (democrats) are destroying our country with ignorant foreign hostiles who are here for plunder and conquering.


  25. Woots: It is INSANE to import people just to tell them a philosophical lesson about government. That is NOT the purpose of being a country, a people, a civilization.

    And there is nothing in Constitution that would remotely make this a purpose of immigration.

    If we would teach Democrats any virtue then we might have some standing in believing we could teach it to foreigners. Democrats don’t even know what virtue is such that they could teach it to others.

    If foreigners want to learn about virtue and liberty they can pick up a damn book, read about it, and teach it to their OWN people. The thing is democrats are importing people who don’t like books and likely won’t before the civilization is completely ruined.

    These people don’t come here to learn, they come here to make America the dung heaps they flee from. If they came here to be like you, they would have shown evidence of it already.

    That hasn’t happened.

  26. Tootie,

    Do you realize yet that 1) I am younger than you and 2) I’m not a partisan?

    You don’t like it that you got into bed politically with the bad guys? That’d be your problem. Should looked before you took that racist leap, genius.

    You bad mouth me (and “leftists”) all you want. You’re a propaganda regurgitating machine so your opinions about me or either end of the political spectrum carry zero weight.

    The facts are on my side.

    And universities? Your continual raving against education shows your ignorance on top of your thinly veiled perpetually racist nonsense. A bias against education, which is what you display on a regular basis – a preference for propaganda over actually learning, is like wearing a shirt that says, “I’m with Stupid” and the finger on the hand is pointing at your own head. What you should be ashamed of (assuming a Neocon propaganda troll is capable of shame) is admitting that you’re so arrogant in your ignorance that you cannot learn from an instructor from this country let alone a foreign country. So you try to demonize all of higher education. Uh huh. Methinks the troll doth protest too much.

    How about the abuses by industry of the H-B1 visa program? As a percentage, industry employs far more H-B1 workers than universities if for no other reason industry in toto employs far more people than universities.

    How about Google and YouTube were started in part by immigrants from Russia and Korea? That Citibank, Berkshire-Hathaway and Pepsico all have immigrants in upper management? Hm?

    You want to keep talent out of our markets based on where it comes from apparently. America is supposed to be a beacon for the best and brightest. But not if they’re one of them “furerners”, eh? Anyone who knows your history of posts would not be surprised at this bit of shortsighted bigotry. It’s the same kind you display in supporting Arizona’s “Stop ‘Em If They’re Brown” law.

    If you’re going to keep acting ignorant? Please own your own ignorance instead of demonizing those who have worked hard to make sure they are smarter than you by the merits of having an education . . . which you clearly lack. In history, law, economics and sociology you are consistent. Consistently bigoted, but consistently wrong as well. “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson.

    You want all the immigrants out? Well unless you’re an American Indian, you better start packing your bags too, sport. Because that’d be consistent with your wanting LEGAL immigrants kept out of this country under the H-B1 program in addition to the illegals. But you go on being consistently wrong and visibly a biased partisan hack. It gives us plenty to shoot at like skeet.

  27. Tootie:

    Buddha mentioned it but I think you are wrong on the immigration thing. The Indians and Chinese and Koreans and Vietnamese have a very good record of success in our country. They are extremely hard working and a good number are very successful.

    A good many Hispanics are successful as well. They start working for cheap but some move on to start companies and employ people. But then when I first entered the American wok force I made 90 cents an hour, so you could say that young kids are cheap labor as well. You have to start somewhere.

    Although I will agree that they ought to learn English, it makes it easier for them to become successful. As far as customs and cultures, when did your ancestors first come here? Half of mine came in 1700’s and the other half came in the mid to late 1800’s am I more American than you if your ancestors came here in say 1920? That is tribal thinking at it’s worst. And ancestor worship as well. Your ancestors don’t really have anything to do with how well you do in life.

    I am always amazed by people who do genealogy to try and prove that someone in their family was worth a shit. They are like people who breed dogs and worry about the pedigree of the dog but are typically fat, ugly and stupid. At least that has been my experience with the dog breeders I have bought dogs from.

    Does it matter when your ancestors came here? Or who they are? Anyone who loves freedom and wants an opportunity to prosper is an American.

    And by the way I have a friend from a South American country that came here a Marxist and is now well on his way to being a capitalist or at least a reformed socialist.

  28. Toots:

    Hardly joking. The fool was just about foaming at the mouth on FAUXNewz. Pierce is as serious as cancer, no doubt about it.

  29. Tootie,
    (briefly cause I gotta run

    you said “Woots: It is INSANE to import people just to tell them a philosophical lesson about government. That is NOT the purpose of being a country, a people, a civilization.

    And there is nothing in Constitution that would remotely make this a purpose of immigration.”

    I was responding to your post and was not careful in my response. I did not mean to give the impression that we purposely import people for any reason. My point has to do with how they are treated once they get here…and also how we treat our ‘own’ people that are already here, you know, citizens. People still want to come to the US. In droves.

    sorry to inadvertantly mislead, more later…

  30. “Palo Verde Power Plant, is a nuclear power plant located in Wintersburg, Arizona[2], about 45 miles (80 km) west of central Phoenix, and is currently the largest nuclear generation facility in the United States, averaging over 3.2 gigawatts (GW) of electrical power production in 2003 to serve approximately 4 million people. Arizona Public Service (APS) owns the largest portion (29.1%) of the station and operates the facility. Other owners include Salt River Project (17.5%), El Paso Electric Co. (15.8%), Southern California Edison (15.8%), PNM Resources (10.2%), Southern California Public Power Authority (5.9%), and the Los Angeles Dept. of Water & Power (5.7%).” From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palo_Verde_Nuclear_Generating_Station

    Salt River Project was a (non-legal) client of mine ten years ago. If the same people run it now, they aren’t going to be real happy with Pierce either. Same goes for PNM Resources. So it’s not just going to be California on him, but his own people and New Mexico as well. As long as Perry is Governor of Texas, I doubt El Paso Electric is going to say “boo”.

  31. It is of note that ownership in toto by California equates to only slightly less than Arizona based public ownership (29.1% versus 27.4% (SCE, SCPPA and LADWP)).

    If Peirce wants to play nasty and assert superior rights to other owners? Good luck with that in court too.

  32. I read the letter. How is that a threat to cut off power? The author specifically states he will encourage renegotiation. I see nothing about superior ownership rights. If, Los Angeles has the courage of its convictions and renegotiates the agreements, I don’t think luck will matter in the courts.

  33. I was a start-up thanks to my Dad, a once-removed immigrant from Scotland and my Mom, a direct descendant of a “Revolutionary Soldier”, C.O.W. (Comrade of Washington, who was also an immigrant from Scotland).

    Thank god for the immigrants … keep ’em coming!

  34. I think the AZ law is terribly misguided. It is the wrong answer to a awfully misunderstood problem. HOWEVER, this idea to boycott AZ services and goods is equally as misguided. Where is the boycott of Mexico’s goods who have a far worse immigration policy than our own? And what about China? And include any number of countries that treats thier undocumented immigrants far worse than we do. Where is the city-wide boycott of them?

    And in reading his letter, this whole thing on his part sounds a little tounge-in-cheek pointing out that it is unreasonable for LA to boycott things producted in AZ… while they may own part of the power plant, the bottom line is that the plant is located in AZ – meaning revenue for AZ. It sounds like a poor attempt at simply saying, becareful of what you ask for… I’ve already read some stories about local cities exploring this idea and presenting along with it exemptions for thier own favorite AZ businesses, etc. This whole boycott things is stupid.

    Again, the AZ law is terrible. I think it should be challenged through the appropriate channels and LEO’s feet should be held blazingly to the white-hot fire of scrutinity by civil rights watchdogs in every single instance of it being used. But passing a city law/ordinance/requirement/mission statement/whatever the hell you want to call it – is a TERRIBLY waste of local governments resources and counter-productive.

  35. “If we would teach Democrats any virtue then we might have some standing in believing we could teach it to foreigners. Democrats don’t even know what virtue is such that they could teach it to others”.

    When racism and bigotry are virtues, Democrats will have something to learn from conservatives. When our democracy is dead at the hands of Tootie and those who don’t understand or appreciate it, we’ll have been taught all about conservatives’ values.

    Conservatives have nothing to teach Americans. We’ve already learned we’ve been duped by conservativism for thirty years. We now know it is an utter failure. Conservativism is the reason the banking/mortgage/Wall Street industries were permitted to run our economy into the ditch and to cause the resultant worldwide recession and unemployment. It’s also at the root of the BP oil leak disaster, the trillions wasted on war, and now polarized immigration. Everything conservative “virtues” touch in diminished. I hope I never learn conservatives’ “virtues”.

  36. Byron:

    The American people, according to the law of nations which during our time is a more tangible reality, have always had the right of a people–any people–to self determination.

    When the American people were last consulted officially by their representatives in Washington D.C. as to who, and what kind, and what type of people they would be or remain while a legal immigration system was operating in this country, the promise by those government officials was that the ethnic makeup of the country would not change as a result of immigration.

    You may not like that promise or you may not like the attitude of the people who gave their assent to that promise, but that is the last official discussion between the government of United States and the American people about the most serious matter of immigration. A matter of national security and survival.

    To gloss over the seriousness of eliminating an entire race from a continent (whites were once about 90 percent of the population and are soon to be about 50 percent) and to shrug off the monumental breech of trust used to do it by telling me that there are some nice immigrants is to miss entirely the profound moral complexities and injustice of the situation.

    Not only has the ethnic makeup of this country been quite disrupted, actual genocide is occurring. Indeed the immigration groups now work against the best interests of the country including fighting the people who invited them in in the first place.

    Pointing out that a handful of successful immigrants from non-western lands, who we have always had here even before the 1965 Immigration Act, does not wipe clean away the sweeping nature of this most devious legislative crime committed against against any people ever.

    There is nothing in the annuals of history that remotely resembles, on this scale, the heinous act by a government which intentionally eliminates its own racial population in exchange for another, through legislation against the will of its people.

    This is being done solely for political reasons. Democrats cannot get many more converts to their insane political party. So they are importing them.

    And so, I find it interesting that when the United Nations was setting up (in 1948) the legal definition for genocide, Joseph Stalin refused to agree to the definition if it included the elimination of political groups. In other words, he felt a government should be able to exterminate groups for political reasons.

    That is exactly what democrats are doing!

    They want amnesty because they know they can bribe largely Hispanics immigrants in particular. That translates in votes and that overthrows the whole political system by fraud. A thing Stalin would agree with. Naturally.

    At just what point will enough genocide satisfy the democrats? When whites are 25 percent of the population? I have no idea. Democrats are insane, and I don’t understand insane people.

    But I can tell you this, if I proposed laws that would replace the black population of Africa with whites, I would likely be murdered for it if I left the country.

  37. rcampbell:

    The person I responded to apologized for not being precise enough in the response I answered which set you off in a tizzy. If that is good enough for me it should be good enough for you.

    And I thought that the blood-thirsty people who agree to snuffing out the lives of 48 million human organisms in the womb had a remote ability to teach morals to others, I’d say so.

  38. The New Colossus:
    Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
    with conquering limbs astride from land to land;
    Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
    a mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
    is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
    Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
    Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
    The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame,
    “Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
    with silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

    “In 1883, Emma Lazarus was a 34 year old poet and member of a prominent New york Jewish family. She was invited to submit a poem for the Art Loan Exhibit, the proceeds of which would be used to fund the statue’s base. At first she refused, but two days later submitted the poem “The New Colossus” inspired by her horror at the anti-Semitic riots in Russia and the sight of refugees who fled them.”


    Stinkin’ ferners.

  39. toots
    “To gloss over the seriousness of eliminating an entire race from a continent (whites were once about 90 percent of the population and are soon to be about 50 percent) and to shrug off the monumental breech of trust used to do it by telling me that there are some nice immigrants is to miss entirely the profound moral complexities and injustice of the situation.”

    Ummm … Native people were once 100% of the population and are now less than 2% of the population. They actually were the victims of genocide, via intentional infection with smallpox, mass murder etc. (as opposed to fantasies about the genocide of white americans). If you want to get your knickers in a twist about the elimination of an entire race from the continent, it seems to me you should be railing about the monumental breach of trust and injustice of that.

    Oh wait. Native people aren’t white. never mind.

    By the way, the Obama administration has deported more undocumented immigrants than President Bush’s ever did.

    “The number of deportations each year more than tripled during the Bush era — and has kept going up since then. During fiscal year 2009, the first fiscal year of the Obama era, 387,790 immigrants were deported — almost 100,000 more during the last full fiscal year of the Bush presidency. Department of Homeland Security officials stress one big difference between Bush and Obama policies: that the percentage of convicted criminals among the deportees is rising dramatically.
    In fiscal year 2008, 31 percent of the 369,221 deportees had criminal records. From October of 2009 to late April of 2010, that figure was up to 48 percent.”

    But, by all means, don’t let facts get in the way of your delusional rants.

  40. rcampbell,

    I certainly agree with everything you’ve written on this thread with one small caveat:

    Clinton and his Secy of Treas., Rubin played a role in the groundwork (the 1999 repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which effectively had split investment banking and brokerages from commercial banks)that led to the financial disaster under Bush.

    Rubin was co-chair of Goldman from ’90-’92 and after leaving Clinton’s administration in 1999, served as Director and Senior Counselor of Citigroup and, for a short time in 2007, as Chairman. In 2009, after being criticized for his performance, he resigned Citigroup. In the 8 years he worked for Citigroup he received more than $126 million in cash and stock.

  41. Responding to a stream of consciousness rant which clogs rational discourse is much like responding to a serious case of diarrhea clogging the toilet. It produces a stench, but cannot be ignored. And instead of tackling the problem in reasonable bits, it is necessary to simply pick up a plunger and attack as best one can.

    That is the task facing anyone who wishes to reply to Tootie’s posts on the issue of immigration. But in an effort to unclog the discourse with some semblance of order, I will attempt to break down the intellectual sewage into some of its component myths, as follows:

    1. The Non-Assimilation Myth: This is perhaps the oldest complaint about immigrants. Even Benjamin Franklin complained about Pennsylvania Germans who refused to learn English. When I lived in El Paso, Texas from 1958-1964, I had many Mexican-American friends, not because I sought them out as potential Democrats, but because they constituted the largest ethnic group in El Paso. All of my friends spoke English and in many cases, sadly, their parents would not permit them to speak Spanish at home, all out of a desire to become “Americanized.” A few years later I lived in a Polish farming community of approximately 2,000 people in western Massachusetts. Many of the older folks in that community spoke no English at all. There was even a Catholic Church in that town exlusively for Polish Catholics in which services were conducted in that language. Those who were my age all spoke English, of course, but I simply do not recall any organized efforts to make English the official language of Massachusetts or to ban the consumption of golumpkis. The fact is that it is a desire common to all people to feel a part of their surroundings. That includes Hispanics. Those who advance arguments which defy our common experience of human nature should re-examine their own attitudes and beliefs.

    2. The Dr. Strangelove Myth: This myth is so named because its adherents remind me of Gen. Jack T. Ripper, who argued that fluoridation of drinking water was part of a Communist plot to “sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids.” This is part of the myth of Anglo-Saxon superiority which regular raises its ugly visage in immigration debates. It is the argument of the Know Nothing Movement of the 1840s, a particularly virulent reaction to Irish immigration in the previous decade. It is the argument behind the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 and the “Gentlemen’s Agreement” with Japan a few years later. It is the argument of the eugenics movement in the early part of the last century, when Tootie’s spiritual forebears argued that the influx of “undesirable classes” from southern and eastern Europe threatened to end the dominance of the Protestant English and northwestern Europeans who had, after all, created a society of intelligence, good breeding and culture. This myth is closely related to

    3. The Myth of Immigration as Political Weapon: On this issue Tootie takes us back to the years before the New Deal, when Republicans were in firm control of government and Protestants were in firm control of everything else (they were, of course, the same people). Republicans, as one would expect, behaved as they do now, stalwart in their belief that the wealthy enjoyed God’s favor and were entitled to make the rules, that labor unions were organized mobs hell-bent on destroying the sanctity of contract doctrine which enabled every man to freely agree upon the terms of his indentured servitude, and who reveled in a Wall Street culture in which they and all of their friends could, with diligence and an absence of government regulation, amass great fortunes. We all know how that ended. Fortunately, the great influx of Irish Catholics, Jews, southern Europeans and other undesirables which filled our cities and manned our factories from the late 1880s onward were motivated to push the Democrats into power to free themselves from Republican benign neglect and usher in the New Deal. But that movement was a reaction; those immigrants were already here, not bused in like so many Tea Party demonstrators.

    4. The Myth of Welfarism. This argument has its purely domestic counterpart in the “welfare queen” myth popularized by Ronald Reagan among those who either have no clue as to how much it costs to raise a child, or who have darker motives. The gist of it is that hordes of illegal immigrants come into the states in order to feed at the public trough and generally take it easy. This argument confuses illegal immigrants with politicians. It also ignores fundamental laws of economics and national pride. A person who willingly leaves his wife, his children and everything familiar to him in order to make a dangerous crossing into a country filled with people who resent him, who speak a language he does not understand and who are quite willing to take advantage of him given the opportunity, is displaying a courage which few of us possess, driven by the desire to ease the debilitating proverty of those he loves in spite of the risks. That is his motivation. The demand for his services is the cause. We have illegal immigration for the same reason that we have border drug wars, to feed a seemingly insatiable American demand for highs and cheap labor.

    5. The Myth of American Exceptionalism: It is the preservation of this myth which primarily drives the others. It is the belief that this is, and was intended by God to be, a nation of Protestant Christians, charged with serving as proof of the Almighty’s blessings on those who conform to certain theological tenets. So we see the constant efforts to eliminate separation of church and state. We see the constant efforts to introduce religious doctrine into the teaching of history and science. We see the constant efforts to deny equal rights to those who refuse to accept narrow, sectarian beliefs. It is the destruction of this myth above all else which motivates much of what passes for “enforcing” immigration laws.

    In the end, Tootie wants to preserve her version of America, whether or not it actually exists. Any beliefs or political programs which takes issue with her reality are conspiracies, therefore, and their proponents are, ipso facto, anti-American, even treasonous. But since death comes even to the faithful, Tootie’s ideas will die with her, leaving only her acidic remains to produce a healthy new crop of blue hydrangeas, proving once again that beauty, like truth, always survives hatred, intolerance and bitterness.

  42. This is why among other reason we should have a Nationalized Power Grid and in fact Nationalize all Major Energy..

    Until we do this we won’t move into the 21st Century, or really be able to compete Globally but also if we do this and have a Single Payer Heath Care System which would also cut costs and took the burden off our companies we could create an Economic Boom!

    I know this isn’t the Legal analysis but it is the Solution look at the BP disaster and the corruption of our government by the Power Industry and Oil industry and Coal Industry and Underground Mines there’s I hear 16,000 unanswered violations pending by stalling with appeals in the mean time men die and more men will die, fodder to our 19th century model.

    I imagine this could be argued to violate the Constitution the Commerce Clause comes to mind, but this was what I wanted to say we need solutions apparently Obama is adverse to solutions from what I’ve seen…

  43. OMG!!! Holy Hannah!

    this is the best line of this whole twisted conversation…

    “The gist of it is that hordes of illegal immigrants come into the states in order to feed at the public trough and generally take it easy. This argument confuses illegal immigrants with politicians.”

    thank you! hahahaha ….that says it all!

    unfortunately it may be true :(

  44. Mike A.

    “But since death comes even to the faithful, Tootie’s ideas will die with her, leaving only her acidic remains to produce a healthy new crop of blue hydrangeas, proving once again that beauty, like truth, always survives hatred, intolerance and bitterness.”

    Love it! Thank you.

    I guess I’m one of those folks Tootie’s ranting about. My father and all of my grandparents came to the US from Eastern Europe.

    I should add that unless Tootie is descended from the indigenous peoples of North America–she too is the spawn of immigrants. Those early British colonists and their descendants did a pretty good job of eliminating much of the native population of this continent. Talk about genocide!

  45. “It’s not likely that the city of Los Angeles could bring down the state of Arizona in one fell swoop or cause Arizona to rethink its law. So, Pierce’s cordial-but-insulting letter was just another empty, political gesture and seems more like a who-can-jump-farther kind of competition. (Note: Pierce is up for reelection this year.)

    After fielding media responses all day Wednesday, Pierce admitted Arizona didn’t have the power to pull the plug and that it was just a way to call out L.A.’s hypocrisy. This isn’t middle school, and these kinds of passive-aggressive games could really affect important issues and people’s lives.

    Pierce told one news organization he was surprised by the national media attention his letter received. It’s really not that surprising considering most news organizations tend to take threats pretty seriously, whether the bully can follow through or not.”

    From http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thegaggle/archive/2010/05/19/arizona-threatens-los-angeles-sort-of.aspx


    Seems Newsweek adopted your “big dick” theory about Peirce’s posturing even if they did use the “jumping” language.

  46. Mike A:

    You are my idol :)


    I prefer to use more “colorful” language to get my point across :)

  47. VLF (in regards to your first post):

    I often wonder how this sort of thing would work out if all parties involved were naked.

  48. Gyges:

    Ah! My eyes! They burn! They BURN!! The visual would be pretty disturbing, but overall, I think it would be pretty damned funny!

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