2000 Dead in Afghanistan

Our dead in Afghanistan has now reached 2000. As anti-American protests and sentiments continue to grow, the Obama Administration continues to spend billions in the country and continues to send our soldiers into harm’s way. In the most tragically apt moment, we reached 2000 dead with yet another American killed by an Afghan soldier that he was treating as an ally and comrade in arms.


A civilian contractor with NATO and at least two Afghan soldiers also died in the attack by what the government refers to clinically as “an insider.” In addition to our 2000 dead, 1,190 more coalition troops from other countries have died.

With the Afghanistan President referring to Americans as “devils” and saying that he wishes he could have joined the Taliban, it is not surprising that we are training some soldiers who view our soldiers as the enemy.

Despite Obama’s promise of the withdrawal of U.S. forces, American, NATO and allied troops are still dying in Afghanistan at a rate of one a day. We are years into Obama term and we still have thousands of troops in a country where we are widely viewed as enemies and continue to spend billions as our own cities and states shutdown basic public programs for lack of money.

Source: Yahoo

97 thoughts on “2000 Dead in Afghanistan

  1. We could have made a difference there, we could have actually won the long-term war. There was brief window of time right after the fall of the Taliban. My boy was there at the time and his early letters are full of hope & excitement. The locals were thrilled and Civil Affairs was making a positive change. But about half way through his first tour it all turned to sh17. Suddenly they couldn’t get supplies, they couldn’t get money, they couldn’t get manpower – it was all being saved up to be pizzed away in Iraq for no reason other than to make Boy Blunder feel good about himself.

  2. Frankly, I can certainly understand you anger. As I watched the interview of Karzai, Cheney’s hand picked “president” last night I wondered why he gets to play the victim while we pay and pay and pay. Why did the interviewer let him off and allow him to fein innocence? It was pretty outrageous.

  3. Eventually the invaders get pissed off when the invadees get pissed off:

    The top American commander of troops in Afghanistan showed signs of impatience about the growing spate of insider attacks that have taken a toll on U.S. troops during a blunt interview on “60 Minutes” Sunday night.

    “I’m mad as hell about them, to be honest with you,” Gen. John Allen said in response to a question about the incidents, which the military calls insider, or green-on-blue, attacks. “We’re going to get after this. It reverberates everywhere, across the United States. You know, we’re willing to sacrifice a lot for this campaign. But we’re not willing to be murdered for it.”

    (Huffington Post). It gets harder all the time to be an Okie from Muskogee.

    The “we are all Okie’s now” thingy is wearing off it would seem.

  4. Justice Holmes,
    Where was the interview.

    Frankly,
    Politics steer such things as you report. Arslekissing of GB2 does also.

    Even personal vendettas between staffers will determine if needed weapons will get sent to CIA officers stationed in Iraq during the war.
    Source: Human Factor by Ishmael Jones,

    Anybody believe we will get out quicker with Romney?
    Are we taking bets on WHEN???

  5. Whatever happened w/ Mullah Omar? We had a huge bounty on Omar and I’ve not heard squat for several years about him.

  6. Bring all the Soldiers home… in every country… I am sick of it… they don’t want us there… we give and give and give and its time to stop… and take care of our own here in the United States… it won’t happen in my life time… I’m sure….. My son spent 14 months off and on in Iraq.. sure messed him up… to much death… to many of our men and woman being killed for what ??????? just saying…. I have never seen a post or in the paper or on the news lets stay its a good thing… NOT Bring our Soldiers Home Now……

  7. We should have left Afghanistan long ago. When my son was there with the Marines, he was imbedded with the Afghan National Army to train them. I am glad that when he came home over a year ago that there were not as many attacks on the US trainers as there is now. Sad situation. Bring them home.

  8. There is a commitment by USGinc. to stay until at least 2024 (made under Obama, right now– certain to be followed through by either Robama or Obamney in the future). USGinc. has no intention of removing our presence from there, any more than they have from removing our people from the Green Palace in Iraq. USGinc. serves its own masters and cares not one wit for right or wrong. USGinc. is a death cult.

    I will say this again. The only people who can stop USGinc. are us. We must be informed, truthful with ourself and with others and we must use peaceful acts of protest. Romeny will not save us. Obama will not save us. They serve USGinc. We have, in part, allowed this by failing to say “No” at crucial points after 9/11. Each time we failed to stand up to USGinc. we greenlight their actions and they do even worse. Stop greenlighting wars and other cruelty. Use peaceful protest to end the wars of empire.

  9. History has surely taught the world long ago that meddling in the political affairs of other nations is not a good idea. Even the military intervention when nations are at war, is a risky proposition. Ascertaining the lesser of two evils, as with our political system is not always clear cut.

  10. You don’t hear as much about the loss of American lives in Afganastan since Bush left office. It was every day news back then, the main stream media is quite liberal.

  11. Your President has a big plan, to destroy American and his party or cabinet members were all picked by him He is not an American so he has no pride, He is a good actor and puppet for the real writers who are also in at side wings helping in directing this tragic play that is going to leave the audience in disbelief,which we will all have to sit through to the end. With him in power there will always be more plays for him to direct with the backers behind him rooting on..There will be no booting him off the set or for that matter out of the office.
    Which do you think is better, a American who isn’t aware of the middle class because he is in the upper class or a Non -American Muslim whose religious beliefs are for his countryman and he can’t not turn his back on them.and don’t forget they hate Americans, so he has to do what he thinks is good for them .He is in the office for that reason and perhaps other reasons as well.

  12. We “win” the Afghanistan war when we leave Afghanistan. There never was, and never will be, another way to “win.”

  13. http://www.ivaw.org/blog/racism-and-war-dehumanization-enemy/mike-prysner

    From Iraq Veterans Against War:

    “Mike Prysner describes a mission he took part in which his unit forced Iraqis out of half a dozen homes, with no compensation, so the US military could use them. “One family in particular, a woman with two small girls, very elderly man, and two middle-aged men—we dragged them from their houses and threw them onto the street, and arrested the men because they refused to leave.” Since he left, he has been plagued by guilt “anytime I see a mother with her children, like the one who cried hysterically and screamed that we were worse than Saddam as we forced her from her home, …anytime I see a young girl like the one I grabbed by the arm and dragged into the street.” Prysner also describes the physical abuse of a wounded prisoner, with a sandbag over his head and his hands tied behind his back. “We were told we were fighting terrorists; the real terrorist was me, and the real terrorism is this occupation.””

  14. Bruce 1, October 1, 2012 at 11:19 am

    You don’t hear as much about the loss of American lives in Afganastan since Bush left office. It was every day news back then, the main stream media is quite liberal.
    ========================================
    You should be embarrassed to parrot the junk of Nixon’s campaign boyz:

    After the Goldwater defeat of 1964, conservatism was a dirty word and most Americans wanted to be liberals, especially working people, who were highly unionized. Lee Atwater and colleagues, working for the 1968 Nixon campaign, had a problem: How to get a significant number of working people to become conservative enough to vote for Nixon.

    So they ran Nixon on law and order. At the same time, they created the concept of “the liberal elite” — the tax and spend liberals, the liberal media, the Hollywood liberals, the limousine liberals, and so on. They created language for all these ideas and have been repeating it ever since.

    (Origin Of The “Liberal Media” Meme). If you are not embarrassed by Nixon law and order foolishness, then you won’t be embarrassed by Nixon liberal media foolishness either.

    It is so yesterday.

  15. Anonomously Posted,

    Thanks for the link. Moving.
    Messages: We are one people, We are pawns. We know who our real enemies are. We can do something about it by simply saying NO.

    I’m passing it on. Hope others will too.

  16. Bruce,

    I’m not playing hop on you, just saying why don’t you redeem yourself and go fetch from DOD a link to a graph or table showing our monthly casualties since the last 8 years.

    If you want a grade A, then fetch ones showing our ground troop numbers monthly, and our contractor numbers and our annual expenditure for Afghanistan.

    OK.

    Now that was a civil request wasn’t it. Do a good deed today.
    Good man.

  17. Great film, idealist. Yes, that describes perfectly the real problem all humans face under the Multinational war machine.

  18. Hope no one feels I am jacking this thread, but here’s a cross-post from “Prime Minister”-thread worth putting here as Afghanistan, after Israel vs Arabs, is the hottest area (ignoring the real ones like Iran, SA, etc) Here goes:

    “idealist707
    1, October 1, 2012 at 12:15 pm
    “This is a bomb….! if taken seriously and with another viewpoint makes it clear that we are capable of annihilating ourselves today.

    We fight similarly and negotiate using the same tools used 8,000 years ago. We rule with generally the same tools the peoples under us.

    Our capability to “other” your neighbors, here and around the world, is extraordinary, and effect us greatly emotionally.
    Witness the Shía versus Sunni slaughter that went on weekly in Iraq, and presumably does today.

    These problems are highlighted by the speechs made at the UN.

    Was enforced peace under the threat of arms so bad? As under the British protectorate to take one example of many.
    The problem is, as we know, that strife between neighbors is not the problem today. There is still water, air, space, food, though it is increasingly controlled by “food producers” who can control us.

    It is world hegemony and resources, whether it is solar panels or oil.
    And so long those driving factors exist, we will be encouraged in our rages to continue to be pawns.

    Seems I have heard that word before.

    Well an imposed uncomfortable peace may be best for all. An ultimate “share and share alike” may be necessary for the world. We have global knowledge now.
    By enforced peace I DO NOT mean an American one. But lacking an alien from space to impose it, I wonder if the American one is not the only alternative, or the Chinese, or the Israeli one…..the latter one in all seriousness. But that is another story.

    I’ll close by saying what I did in a comment yesterday.

    We ARE heading towards an imperial Presidency, and an imperial position internationally. And intentionally also, with the consent of Congress.

    For the same reason that Rome left the democratic Senate (with the terrible reality behind that), and embraced the Imperial Caesars who became divine.
    Why?
    Democracy is too slow in reacting. Too cumbersome to control. Military discipline is necessary say our leaders, not democracy.

    Where is the space for the individual? I think we will have to begin to study that problem again.

    Meanwhile we must admit we are up against a tyranny, corporate tyranny of the most inhuman kind.

    An example from yesterday’s thread on Pensions. The rape of the pension systems and replacement with 401Ks yielding reduced benefits, withdrawal of health care……all including pensions were paid in advance as withheld salary; fully funded, and capable of being siphoned off into—guess?—executive salaries and feeding into the corporate budget as earnings. I diverge. But check out the Ellen Schultz links given yesterday. Both the radio interview and the recorded address by her are excellent.

    So we know who the enemy is: the “job creators”; we know how they work: using “money” to purchase laws, contracts, preventing enforcement of enacted regulation and oversight, etc.

    “So, whatta you gonna do?” asks the demonstration leader.

    The GOVinc are rapidly equipping themselves and organizing against unruly citizens who can oppose.
    They do many things, some viewable,l some not.

    The longer we wait the more difficult it will be to make a change.

    Ellsberg calls for massive civil disobedience.
    http://www.refuseandresist.org/article-print.php?aid=2459

    Any better ideas?

    The corporations control so much, that a list would frighten the most hardened.
    Food, fuel, minerals, money, etc. They can make life difficult for the USA as a whole. Clinton said to Jon Stewart, that if you don’t know what the money market and our national debt means, then you won’t survive. (my paraphrase—-the interview is recommended)

    So no wisdom here, just a few observations on where we stand. None originated with me. Much borrowed here.

    As some say, our only media sources of truth are the comedy shows, like Stewart and Colbert.

    PS Civil disobedience. How could that work. 200,000 in Washington won’t work now. So many ways to stop it. So many ways to turn the buses around, stop them from being hired out.
    It will be foot demos at first. Unfortuanately, in numbers like OWS which can disappear into the injustice systme, be silenced quickly in nightly news, be ignored by the NYTimes, etc.

    We will be slandered, abused, etc. Are your kids prepared.

    Don’t take it personally Rafflaw when I point out you and your fine son, whose survival gladdens us all. What can he do with the young Veterans Against War.

    Who will ignite this fuse? Who will immolate themselves like the monks in Vietnam who electrified a watching world. The steps of the Congress stand available. Someone said here that a great shock would be needed to ignite the people. The questions remain unanswered. Who, what, when, where and why.

  19. anonymously posted, Thanks for the video. I’ve seen it before. We all need to see it over and over and pass it on again and again. It’s as relevant and well said as Smedley Butler’s “War is Hell”.

  20. 707, Good question.

    Iraq Coalition Military Fatalities By Year

    Year US UK Other Total
    2003 486 53 41 580
    2004 849 22 35 906
    2005 846 23 28 897
    2006 823 29 21 873
    2007 904 47 10 961
    2008 314 4 4 322
    2009 149 1 0 150
    2010 60 0 0 60
    2011 54 0 0 54
    2012 1 0 0 1
    Total 4486 179 139 4804

    Afghanistan Coalition Military Fatalities By Year

    Year US UK Other Total
    2001 12 0 0 12
    2002 49 3 18 70
    2003 48 0 10 58
    2004 52 1 7 60
    2005 99 1 31 131
    2006 98 39 54 191
    2007 117 42 73 232
    2008 155 51 89 295
    2009 317 108 96 521
    2010 499 103 109 711
    2011 418 46 102 566
    2012 262 39 46 347
    Total 2126 433 635 3194

    Source: http://icasualties.org/

  21. ID,
    I hope no one has to set themselves on fire to “ignite” a movement against war. It can be done with demonstrations and at the ballot box, but it is an uphill battle when very few families have felt the sting of the loss of a loved one.

  22. Previous post does not include Iraq or Afghanistan casualties. They don’t count in our attempt to “liberate” them. [sarcasm]

  23. bettykath, Wikileaks exposed the real casualty rate in our wars for oil. One reason that Sweden just raided one of the Wikileaks servers today, with American encouragement of course.

  24. Seems to be ongoing: just posted on twitter-

    WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks
    PRQ.se, one of a number of ISPs used by WikiLeaks has been raided by Swedish police; 4 servers seized. Police still in office.

  25. All, re wikileaks raid.

    I don’t watch the news here. You tell me.
    Just want to remind those who saw the long Australian reportage on Assange and the rape accusations. One of the very smooth Swedish men inteviewed had a nuke proof site with servers he was donating space on to Wikileaks, and who knew Assange personally. He was keeping his distance carefully in the interview and in reality most likely, for he had a business to protect, but this could be the facility raided. Wonder what the excuse is?

  26. yep, it is here. pirate bay connection.

    “Based in Stockholm, PRQ is owned by Gottfrid Svartholm and Fredrik Neij, two founders of The Pirate Bay.[1]” Ballsy people. Gottfrid did the interview.

  27. Yesterday afternoon, my daughter and I watched the movie, “The Hurt Locker.” I do not recommend it to anyone who has a problem with combat related PTSD. I am still stunned by the movie, its intensity and the truth it speaks.

    We need to get them out. Now. It is time. It is past time.

    We are NOT “winning,” will never win there, and when we leave they will do whatever it is they were doing before we came. Only difference is, they will hate us more when we leave than they did before we got there and occupied their country.

  28. source google to wikipedia.
    Any net or media reaction? Next a raid on the Portugese embassy, or has that happened?

  29. OS,
    Amen as Elsie said.

    Never knew of any war which was justified. Not even our civil one.

    Wars, at least since WW ONE are recognized profit opportunities. All else is BS. IMHO.

  30. Here is a graphic video based on data released by Wikileaks. The video depicts IED blasts up to about three years ago, overlaid on a NATO map of the place. Notice a pattern? The more we “pacified” Afghanistan, the number of explosions went up, not down.

  31. Obama will reward you if you invest in the military/security/intelligence services complex. And if you tell your friends, they’ll know you’re a liberal.

    Go Green. Vote for Jill Stein. She may not be quite as liberal as O, or as
    rich as Romney, but she’s just as good as either of them.

  32. Sting is what is needed. That was taken away with the draft being replaced by a pro armed forces.
    Hope you are right. Maybe a renegade bunch of former special ops can do it with their own special solution. Wonder what the new presidents name will be.

  33. BettyKath,
    Thank you, we got sidetracked. The so-called war goes one. We see that after Surge started that we have lost fewer soldiers. Shall I guess that when they came back after our initial surge ops, that political wisdom was to disengage, and play the “Afghan training alternative” card. Now that is siinking up the campaign. But hold out is the order of the day. Let Karzai spout, then we’ll take him out.

  34. OS,

    Great! Just my taste. Beats the hell out of marching music–no disparaging our soldiers meant. Only to thosw who pay the piper.

    Guess who collected the data originally. Our folks did, with MPS accuracy, daily.

    Ismael Jones last op was as a volunteer, the only one of eight “volunteers” who actually went to Iraq.
    His main thrust was to do tactical help to the troops. Using Iraqi agents, equipped with MPS or his own, IED placements were “collected” and sent to the Army for “defusing” His cultural knowledge and adaptable arabic, quarter for quarter (yeah, true) gave great results. The highest info giver around the world in volume of reports. But it waa a team effort. Just being there could get you killed. On the street or in your bunk in a trailer with eight other guys when a rocket goes through just under the roof without exploding. Canteloupe sized hole.

  35. The Guardian is a far better news source than CNN. We might get out of Afghanistan sooner than planned. This is a brand new story in The Guardian today:

    “The retreat of western forces from Afghanistan could come sooner than expected, the head of Nato has said as he conceded that the recent Taliban strategy of “green on blue” killings had been successful in sapping morale.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/01/nato-forces-afghanistan-early-retreat

  36. Every American should be ashamed of this…. You’re all paying for it! And for what benifit? NONE at ALL…………..

  37. swedenvsassange@swedenvsassange

    “now we have a case that confirms exactly those claims about Sweden’s justice system”: #Piratebay #Svartholm Right link http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/01/wikileaks-sweden-pirate-bay

    Sweden detains Pirate Bay founder in oppressive conditions without…

    Glenn Greenwald: The case underscores the prime fear long expressed by Assange supporters about the Swedish justice system
    The Guardian@guardian
    —————————-

    You can be held 36 hours without being charged. No bail in Sweden. But a weak case can lead to release at first “häktnings” hearing.

  38. Should Swedish police raid against Wikileaks ISP site in Stockholm be moved to another thread? Don’t want to distract from Afghan thread. Opinions?

    How this got out is still not clear but if Glen Greenwald is writing about it, then someone solid has rang to him privately. And he is headlining it, apparently.

  39. Glen Greenwald has coupled this to the since a week or so deportation of one of the founders of the ISP company from Cambodia, at Swedish request.
    There appears to gbe Swedish aid money involved announced the same day as the deportation order was signed. It is not eh first time for Cambodia who receive over one billion from the Chinesé for the deportation of 20 Uyghurs to China.
    Here from the comments which consist of newssites quotes.
    ==============================

    “The following article describes the role of the Cambodian government:

    Cambodia’s decision to deport Svartholm Warg notably coincided with Sweden’s signing of a 400 million Swedish kronor (US$60.6 million) development aid agreement with Cambodia last week. Swedish officials denied a connection between the events, with Kristina Kuhnel, head of Sweden’s development cooperation in Cambodia, stating that the aid package was decided upon in March and only signed now due to delay on Cambodia’s side.

    This would not be the first example of Cambodia receiving cash in return for deportations. Immediately after Cambodia agreed to deport 20 Uyghur asylum seekers to China in April 2010, China pledged Cambodia more than US$1.2 billion in aid and a few weeks later pledged an additional US$14 million to replace US military aid suspended in protest against the deportations.

    and the US one

    Many online commentators see US pressure on Cambodia and Sweden behind Svartholm Warg’s arrest and deportation. They have cited US Trade Representative Ron Kirk’s presence in Cambodia on the day of his arrest and WikiLeaked US cables that suggest US influence behind a 2006 Swedish crackdown on Pirate Bay. The US embassy in Phnom Penh would neither confirm nor deny these assertions.”
    ====================

    Just to ask. Does anyone think that Sweden will be richly rewarded, by their unoffficial ally for services rendered?

    It would almost appear as if these governments are colluding with one another.

  40. Romney says he will hire on a Hundred Thousand more troops. What is he gonna do with them? JT blames Obama for this war and for the deaths. Yesterday he was blaming Obama for drones. Had Obama just pulled out all troops on day one four years ago the RepubliCons and Blackwater (same thing) would have him lynched by now.

  41. “When will people see that war is evil?”

    Everyone knows that war is evil, but to war profiteers and Zionists, it’s a NECESSARY evil.

  42. You have 1 troop for every 7 contractors…… May have a huey….of 40 people shot down…… And 2 US GIs……. The others are casualties… Not statistics…..

  43. In another posting on this blog today..
    An American Marine sucker punches an Afghan/Iraqi/Wherever woman

    Ok. That was a Boston cop punch an American woman, but there is no difference in the ourage for onlookers and her community.

    This pisses people off.
    So does this

  44. “Gottfrid Svartholm will be kept in detention for at least two more weeks on suspicion of hacking into a Swedish IT company connected to the country’s tax authorities. According to Prosecutor Henry Olin the extended detention is needed ‘to prevent him from having contact with other people.’ The Pirate Bay co-founder is not allowed to have visitors and is even being denied access to newspapers and television. . . .

    “Since he hasn’t been charged officially in the Logica case the Pirate Bay co-founder could only be detained for a few days.

    “But, after a request from Prosecutor Henry Olin this term was extended for another two weeks mid-September, and last Friday the District Court decided that Gottfrid could be detained for another two weeks.

    “To prevent Gottfrid from interfering with the investigation the Prosecutor believes it’s justified to detain him for more than a month without being charged. The Pirate Bay co-founder is not allowed to have visitors and is being refused access to newspapers and television. . . . The Prosecutor hasn’t ruled out a request for another extension of Gottfrid’s detainment in two weeks, if the investigation is still ongoing.”

    The claim that produced the most vitriol was that Sweden vests remarkable power in prosecutors and courts to keep accused suspects completely hidden from public view, with no communication or other contact with the outside world, and that this power is exercised with some frequency. Now we have confirmation of that claim from, of all people, the Swedish prosecutor in this case, Henrik Olin, who said in an interview outside the courtroom:

    “‘According to the Swedish system, when the preliminary investigation is finished, I as prosecutor will decide whether to prosecute him. . . . In the Swedish system it is quite usual for people to be detained on this legal ground, and it gives me the possibility to prevent him from having contact with other people.'”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/01/wikileaks-sweden-pirate-bay

  45. “and is even being denied access to newspapers and television. . . .”

    This is because Gottfrid Svartholm has psychic powers.
    He can communicate telepathically with the journalists who write the stories that he reads. WIth a little extra concentration, he can communicate telepathically with the people that they write about.
    Communicating telepathically with people that he sees on television, is of course, very easy for him. WIth a little extra concentration, he can communicate telepathically with anyone watching the same channel.

    He is allowed to read novels – but only those written by now-dead authors – and provided that the novels do not mention any living real people.

  46. Sling, thanks for posting the entire video of the murder of the journalists in Iraq. I saw the short version some time ago. This is the first time for the longer version. It makes me want to take down a helicopter or two. Imagine what it does to the families of those killed! If things continue as they have been, we may be facing the same kinds of attacks here, not just over-zealous cops but cops and military with heavy duty artillery and attack helicopters. And it will all be legal.

  47. Bill McW, You said that Jill Stein is not as liberal as Obama. I don’t see Obama as liberal at all. He’s right of center. Jill is progressive.

  48. The war in Afghanistan had been going on for three years when the IGTNT (I Got The News Today) series started in 2004, so not all are remembered here. However, there is a human face on every one of them. This long-running series posts each one’s story a few days after the news is released. Read ’em if you dare. Then, weep for them.

    http://www.dailykos.com/blog/IGTNT

  49. https://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/06/11-4

    Published on Saturday, June 11, 2011 by CommonDreams.org
    ‘The War You Don’t See’: A Film You Won’t See
    An Open Letter to Noam Chomsky and the General Public

    by John Pilger

    Dear Noam,

    I am writing to you and a number of other friends mostly in the US to alert you to the extraordinary banning of my film on war and media, ‘The War You Don’t See’, and the abrupt cancellation of a major event at the Lannan Foundation in Santa Fe in which David Barsamian and I were to discuss free speech, US foreign policy and censorship in the media.

    Lannan invited me and David over a year ago and welcomed my proposal that they also host the US premiere of ‘The War You Don’t See’, in which US and British broadcasters describe the often hidden part played by the media in the promotion of war, notably in Iraq and Afghanistan. The film has been widely acclaimed in the UK and Australia; the trailer and reviews are on my website http://www.johnpilger.com

    The banning and cancellation, which have shocked David and me, are on the personal orders of Patrick Lannan, whose wealth funds the Lannan Foundation as a liberal center of discussion of politics and the arts. Some of you will have been there and will know the Lannan Foundation as a valuable supporter of liberal causes. Indeed, I was invited in 2002 to present a Lannan award to the broadcaster Amy Goodman.

    What is deeply disturbing about the ban is that it happened so suddenly and inexplicably: 48 hours before David Barsamian and I were both due to depart for Santa Fe I received a brief email with a ‘sorry for the inconvenience’ from a Lannan official who had been telling me just a few days earlier what a ‘great honor’ it was to have the US premiere of my film at Lannan, with myself in attendance.

    I urge you to visit the Lannan website. Good people like Michael Ratner, Jeremy Scahill and Glenn Greenwald are shown as participants in discussion about freedom of speech. I am there, too, but my name is the only one with a line through it and the word, ‘Cancelled’.

    Neither David Barsamian nor I have been given a word of explanation. All my messages to Lannan have gone unanswered; my calls are not returned; my flights were cancelled summarily. At the urging of the New Mexican newspaper, Patrick Lannan has issued a one-sentence statement offering his regrets to the Lannan-supporting ‘community’ in Santa Fe. Again, he gives no reason for the ban. I have spoken to the manager of the Santa Fe cinema where ‘The War You Don’t See’ was to be screened. He received a late-night call. Again, no reason for the ban was forthcoming, giving him barely time to cancel advertising in The New Mexican, which was forced to drop a major feature.

    There is a compelling symbol of our extraordinary times in all of this. A rich and powerful individual and organization, espousing freedom of speech, has moved ruthlessly and unaccountably to crush it.

    With warm regards

    John Pilger

    John Pilger was born and educated in Sydney, Australia. He has been a war correspondent, film-maker and playwright. Based in London, he has written from many countries and has twice won British journalism’s highest award, that of “Journalist of the Year,” for his work in Vietnam and Cambodia.

  50. IRONY, SARCASM DEPT.

    Betty Kath,

    That notice was not for you but some others here. Which stuck pig will squeal now…….?

    With a view to what you wrote that we sometime can look forward (?) to being chased by helicopters by our own army and police—I was just wondering if movies and tv-series will be offered based on such events. The genres are well-established, and audienc participation is guaranteed. “See, there is cousin Bill, he got away, uh, that time, Duh.”
    “Mommy, I don’t like seeing Grandpa bleeding.”
    “Well, child, he has at least been memorialized. He’ll be remembered forever.”

    Shalom alejkam. And that was a joke too. If you get it.

  51. If we look at tonight’s reports from reality and the reports amounting to protest, it has been a depressing harvest.
    And it should feel depressing.

    Since the series in 2004, IGTNT, to 2011 there has been protest. Has it not caught fire as Vietnam protests. Nope.

    (“They are professional soldiers and that is what we are paying them for!” Cynic!)

    Is that the only reason? Perhaps, depressingly it is. Our compassion does not extend very far.
    And if the the crimes committed ón these people EVETY DAY, are not shown on prime time, who gets reminded. “Well, you know, it’s not news anymore.” Cynic! Are the real facts of life and mostly death being smothered on orders from on high. Surely so from what we-ve seen from tonights offerings.

    I thought the Lannan incident particularly worrisome.
    As it shows that even our nominal friends perhaps are only a front by the FBI or the CIA to use to in this case control the stuff that hurts our belief in the system—in this case the cooperation of the media with the government.

    Think about that next time you read about “liberal” organizations. Fronts are literally loved by the CIA.
    I’ll tell you why some other time.
    Is the CIA operation outside their charter here in the USA? There are more employed in district offices all over the states than in overseas positions, including embassy placed officers.

  52. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/30/casualties-afghanistan-war_n_1927691.html

    U.S. Casualties In Afghanistan Rise Past 2,000 As Long-Term Costs Of War Remain Unknown

    by David Wood

    “The roster of American wounded — over 17,000 in Afghanistan and 32,000 in Iraq — include some 17,000 young Americans with multiple severe wounds. Through July 2012, the Defense Department recorded 1,655 amputations due to battle injuries, acording to data drawn up for The Huffington Post by the U.S. Army Surgeon General. The wounds include those with disabling genital wounds.

    But the carnage spreads far beyond physical wounds. According to the Armed Forces Health Survillance Center,
    3,299 American troops who served in Iraq or Afghanistan have been diagnosed with Traumatic Brain Injury since 2003. That data almost certainly understates the number suffering from mild, moderate or severe brain injury because the military didn’t begin testing for TBI on the battlefield until 2007. Even now, precise diagnosis of TBI is not possible, according to the Defense Department’s senior TBI specialist.

    In cold cash, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have cost American taxpayers $1.4 trillion. But that’s only a down payment, according to the Congressional Budget Office, which estimates that the cost of health care for Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans will reach between $40 billion and $55 billion.

    Other demands for education, housing and pension benefits will drive the Department of Veterans Affairs’ long-term costs into the trillions of dollars, some officials believe.

    But any measure of the war’s dead, including some 20,000 Afghan civilians and perhaps 100,000 Iraqi civilians, will necessarily fall far short of the true cost of young lives cut off, of grieving families, of children without a parent.

    Nor can the burden on the survivors, the 2.5 million Americans who served in Iraq or Afghanistan, be properly weighed. Even senior officials at the Pentagon and the VA say privately they cannot accurately describe what life will be like for the severely wounded and their families, who face decades of complex medical care and uncertain rehabilitation.”

    Missing from the article are the numbers of suicides.

  53. Willard: In the debate tomorrow please make one promise. “I, Willard Romney promise to pull out of AfghaniStan and PakiStan within one month of taking office.”
    If you cant say that tomorrow Willard then we cant vote for you. If you win, we will put it to you like we said to Nixon: “Pull out now Willard, like your father should have.”
    If you hire out that additional 100,000 troops that you promised the rich guys the other day at the fund raiser then dont send them to a Stan country. Send them fresh troops to Texas to keep the border virtuous so that all those folks dont come across to pick your rich boys’ grapes and fix their roofs.
    Us dogs are on to you and your kind Willard. We know about the crate on top of your car. Crate dogs are for Obama.

  54. Your army is hunkered down in a hostile region with diminishing supply lines caused in part by the surrounding populace’s animosity to your mission. The enemy is unseen but lurking. Skirmishes abound and you have lost 2500 troops in one three month span men to all manner of war born calamities. You are feeling no support at home and Congress seems reluctant to decide how to help you if they help you at all. Two thirds of the American people are either apathetic or despise your mission. You are at the mercy of suspect foreign born intelligence that seems a bit fraudulent or perhaps even traitorous. Your despair is at an all time high but you believe your mission is vital to the country’s national interests to prevent fear and oppression at home..

    Pull out or fight to complete the mission?

    Afghanistan circa 2012?

    No, Washington at Valley Forge circa 1777.

  55. Messp,

    That was fine when we were fighting for independence.
    Now the Afghans are fighting for theirs, from us.

    There is a difference after all.

    We are instead fighting a nation whose leading figures would and have dominated us for over a century. In fact since 1789.

    Which nation` Our own USA, beautiful America. With spacious skies for the elite, amber waves of grain for the agrobusinesses supported by our taxes.

    If you have any children or relative’s children involved in Iraq or Afghan, then tell us.
    And may I ask what they feel about the wars?

    Just askin’.

    And what do you think the vets, the ones who came home living, in whatever shape, think of these wars.

    You don’t have to be a muslim lover, or a weak sister to hate these wars. All it takes is a little humanity.

    By all means, let us protect ourselves from terrorists. But let us not impoverish ourselves, deny education to the children, medical help to the poor, scholarships to the bright and student loans to the worthy. That is just the short list of how we might pay for these wars.

    Let us in the name of fear of terrorists think we can buy insurance against lifes hazards by paying with our freedoms that George Washington bought for us at Valley Forge.

    We are willing to fight but fainthearted against our real enenmies. That war has a seemingly meaningless outcome ending in early serfhood. And you know of whom I speak.
    No need to list them for the weary here.

  56. Let us NOT in the name of fear of terrorists…..!

    No is so important. Think if Obama had said that at the surge request and said instead yes to pullout.

  57. idealist, I am for pulling out as you are, but if you were an Afghani woman, would you not be trying to leave before the talliban takes over? The families with money will get out as they have already moved their money out of the country.

  58. anonymously posted, my coffee soured this morning after searching your links.
    What an incredibly insulated reality my life functions in.
    Thanks to the goals of government, capitalism, and genius marketing, I am almost as dumb and unaware of things as my kitchen dish rag.

    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/10/08/121008fa_fact_freeland

    This links to an article in the New Yorker. It’s about rich guys hanging out and discussing their self interest. I was “foolishly” amazed to read Al Gore was one of the attendees.

    “The dinner was the highlight of the fourth annual SkyBridge Alternatives Conference, known as salt, a convention orchestrated by the fund manager Anthony Scaramucci; it brings together fund managers with brand-name speakers and journalists for four days of talking and partying. The star guest at the dinner was Al Gore, who was flanked by Antonio Villaraigosa, the mayor of Los Angeles, and the New York hedge-fund investor Orin Kramer, a friend of Gore’s and a top Obama fund-raiser.”

    This article solidified in my mind, The amazing power the super rich yield.
    My political influence is basically my vote. There are groups of super rich that own some of the politicians I vote for.
    Money is not free speech, Corporations are not people, …… Money and Corporations are the Plutocratic Fascists that own our government.
    I am almost envious of my kitchen dish rag.

  59. SwM,

    Fully agree. I know one from the region whose family left Iran, which is not better in its views on women. I know a young woman from Afghanistan who is fully modernized living here. And have read reports written by reliable westerners there—including a gang of western nurses who went there. set up an aid station without sponsorship, etc solely to help the women in the district. This meant getting acceptance from the men, discussions.
    Never were they insulted or mistreated by these leaders. Perhaps the men were not Talibans, but the point being that offering without conditions can be done.

    Obviously I would want my women to get away from the Talibans.
    And the poor wlll be faced living under them.
    My Afghani pharmacist says that education is the only answer.

    And when did American women get suffrage?

  60. I say bring all the Soldiers home from every country… my son was in Iraq 14 months off and on… and wish he would have never gone in the Army… the stories that he has told me about the events going on between our soldiers and the high rank… and the things they were doing… I would fear to put it here and tell the stories… wow I was shocked… at the things some of the soldiers were doing and it was ordered by higher ups… and the fights between our soldiers … just craziness… and the drugs that was being pumped into them… wow… we have not learned a thing in 40 years from Vietnam…. a fight broke out one day between our soldiers stationed out of Fort Benning….that were in Iraq…… about 100 of them …. and they just let them fight… broken arms broken legs they were drunk… what the hell… first you are going home than you are not… than you are going home and than you are not…. and the things that were done… I won’t mention any names.. but this Colonel is sitting at the Pentagon… and he shot 2 Iraq’s prisoners tied up on the ground and gave thumbs up… wow some of the young men 18 and 19 and 20 didn’t know what to think of that….Oh ya war crimes were charged on him… when they got back… he made General and is now sitting at the Pentagon…. hmmmmmmm I say bring all our Soldiers home… Just saying….

  61. Billie,

    Fully agree.

    I have read a brief account on what it was like in the CIA station in Iraq. They were the most aggressive, intelligent ones in the CIA, but the systme overwhelms all. And the environment does too.
    Partiularly here due to the presemce of alcohol and women “desert flowers”.

    Your son’s situation was much worse.

    Has any soldier written his story yet. Or are they allowed to do so? Anybody know?

    The Colonel? That is called setting a good example for the EMs. Hah!

  62. BettyKath,
    Thanks for Clinton and Ryan. Quite buddy-buddy.
    “Just call me” says Clinton.

    The memory of Jon Stewart slicking him in the ear is kinda nauseating.

    Clinton looked a bit askance at him a couple of times. Guess he felt that some of the jokes were not showing adequate deference..

    Then, guess he thought, “Oh well, I came here to reach his nuthead fringe. It could convince some independents too. Bear the freight and get the payoff.”

  63. One more:
    clinton, Bill by name, is the biggest phonycrat ever.
    He passed more Republican stuff than Reagan.
    Michael Moore pegged him and showed the the list.

    Make a deal with the Devil. Thay don’t call him Jack Faust for nothing. Does it everyday.
    His shacks for Haiti program is a scam. You bet it is true when he and Hillary said they have always been interested in Haiti. Guess why. And it ain’t that Monica Lewinsky lives there, nor is it the cigars, or the girls who wiii play with them.
    Nope, sorry. Same-o sama-o Moola. Money. Cabbage.

  64. idealist707

    Yes it was a mess back in 2003 with the 3rd Infantry Division from Fort Benning… they were the ones going across the desert on March 20 2003 the spear of the war… it was so bad… never thought the United States Army would run out of food and water for our soldiers… that shocked me…. that was 9 years ago and my son is not alright… still dealing with the government…and Washington… it was nation wide news about my son when he came home… he smuggled 28 pages of medical records home with him and was diagnosed with PTSD it was on 48 Hours…News Week…G.Q. magazine…Army Times….Playboy magazine… The movie… The book…. needless to say I’m not happy with the United States Army or the government… or Fort Benning. Fort Benning back in 2003 and 2004 was so out of control when these young men came back from Iraq… the soldiers had guns in there cars and grenades in the lockers it was crazy…. My son will be ok in time I will make sure of it… he is my only son… and its just what mothers do… well this mother anyway…. if you would like to know more about all of this.. give me a contact and I can fill you in…but not here…. I would be worried that men in black suits would show up at my door…. its so sad …these young men and woman give 110 percent of themselves and when they get home the Army tosses them away like a peace of trash… lets just say out of 58 soldiers that came home my son was the only one being escorted to the hospital at Fort Benning… we sat there for 6 hours and he got a 5 min evaluation over the phone and they released him… and 4 bottles of pills that the Army was pumping into him… he was in bad shape… it went down hill from there… just a sad story… and nation wide news and still is… Getting ready to do a documentary with G.Q magazine on PTSD… I never saw it until my son came home…. So if you would like to know more give me means of contacting you… I’m sure there are many stories out there just like mine… Shame on the United States Army for not taken care of our soldiers when they come home… just saying…. A loving Mother

  65. billie,

    I welcome you to contact me. But it is important that you find what you need to support your son. I can’t imagine how I can help you, but that is for you to judge, not me. Write only if you feel the need to do so. I am already convinced by what you have said so far. Some may have difficulty in understanding, but I don’t after 2 years active service as an officer in 60-62. And a lifetime in big business and many military contacts.
    Not to brag, just saying that insight comes from many places.
    I can only offer you a comforting ear, no more. I live in Stockholm since 45 years, and have few ties and practically no personal understanding of the nation now.

    What will help you?

  66. Hello Idealist707,

    I’m sorry maybe you misunderstood me or I you lol I thought you wanted to know about the story… sorry…maybe I misunderstood… I have all the help I need thank you… I have 7 years of paperwork… and many contacts… My son is in prison in Ga… he was in the wrong place at the wrong time after they released him from the hospital… Maybe you heard about the story….or maybe you didn’t ….. Alberto Martinez stabbed Richard Davis 33 times outside the gates of Fort Benning in 2003 when they got back from Iraq… my son was present… and it went down hill from there… and my son testified against Alberto Martinez and Mario Navierett…Douglas Woodcoff… Very sad day… for all the families…. I was law enforcement in Florida and State Investigator in Ga… and I am retired now…Oh I have pushed some buttons… and gotten Senators involved.. and still at it… my son should be home I hope in 3 years… we do the time together and I see him every weekend… he is a good man…I have a family member in the Army high up in Rank he is helping me get my son’s DD214 straight.. it reads N/A on the whole thing… doesn’t even show he was Iraq Vet… I will be at this until the day I die… they are not going to take that away from him… oh yes he got thrown out of the Army dishonorable discharge… but he went and turned them all in and was the DA star witness… Changed 5 families lives forever…..

    If you type on Richard Davis Murder it will all come up… the Book was Murder in Baker Company… by Cilla McCain….

    I don’t understand the nation today either…. it won’t be changed in my life time or my son’s life time I am sure…. I still have the media at my fingertips… and they help me a lot… wish my son had never gone in the Army…. The war really messed with his mind… to much death… but he will be Ok I will make sure of that… he is my only child and he is 33 he still has a life ahead of him…. its just all so sad…. nice to hear from you…

    Thank you…. Take Care…. Billie

  67. billie,
    you are welcome to contact me at falllingpetals@hushmail.com.
    Please note the spelling of fallling. It has 3 letter l’s, not two. A mispelling to live with.

    Frankly I am not a sensation seeker, but am interested in the reality that you and your son have experienced. Shared in different ways by many, but few are as well-spoken and open as you are.
    I look frankly for the dirt behind the scenes.
    I guess I am looking ror many proofs of the rottenness of the system we have.

    What you had said before was appalling to me. That he should even receive more than a year in jail in injustice, pure and simple. Had he had adequate legal help, IMHO. he would have gone free on grounds of temp mental something or other. And if he was to be a star witness, admitting culpability, as I remember that you wrote, then he should have gotten a good deal in return. Everybody does, so why not him.

    I’ll stop for now. I was afraid that you needed my help and Í could offer none.
    Now I know you are a powerful woman. And I am glad that you are.

    Write if you like. And welcome to say hey here also.

  68. Billie, I read the story. I’m sorry your son didn’t get the help he needs. It’s one of the shameful things about our country that we can send young men and women off to war and then do nothing to help them when they get injured. All the best in your struggles.

  69. Good Morning Bettykath

    thank you so much… thank you so much for your kind words… its one of many stories out there I am sure…. Oh….yes I will be at this until the day I die… he is my only child… and he is a good man… we never know where life is going to take us..I never dreamed that my son would be where he is at…. its been 9 years November 7th and believe me I stay right on top of everything… and he is in Prison in Ga. and if something is going to happen to you don’t let it be in Ga. Wow there laws are really behind times and its a prejudice state… Oh the state of Ga. knows who I am….. nothing better happen to my son while he is there…. you will see me protesting in Washington on the street…..

    I have never said that my son was perfect… and he did do some wrong doing… but he is the one that went back and turned them all in… he said to me… Mom…. the truth will set me free…. and I can’t say that for the other young men they never spoke and if they did they lied on the stand… That was the most hardest week of my life…. and my son on that stand for 5 hours… the court room was full…….standing room only when my son testified that day…. I had many lawyers come up to me and say…. Wow that is the first for them to see someone sit on that stand and tell the whole truth….

    I watched our justice system that week…and what I saw… was the deals that go on behind close doors… money talks…. and who could get there pic on the front page of the paper first… sad sad it wasn’t about the truth and justice……… and Fort Benning in Ga. closed there doors to everyone and shuffled the soldiers around so no one could talk to them…

    I got out of law enforcement and got away from being State Investigator it put a bad taste in mouth…. I always said if God would give me one wish I would ask for Richard Davis’ life back… I met his parents and that was there only son…. Mr. Davis died 2 years ago… it was a very intense week for everyone… and where was the United States Army ????? no where to be found… Ya see it started in Iraq…. Richard Davis caught Alberto Martinez and Mario raping a 13 year girl at Baghdad airport… and they came after Richard and cut his arms all up… it came out in court… so it stemmed back to the states and they came after Richard because he was going to turn them in…. hell they were only home 5 days from War…. my son’s car got stolen and when Alberto came over to pick up Richard Davis…my son said hey man can I catch a ride….. my son didn’t hang out with these young men…. and it went down hill from there….

    You do not see anywhere on the news that someone walked into the Sheriffs Office and said……Please arrest me I have just murdered someone…or raped someone….. I have never seen that happen in my life time…or while I was in law enforcement….

    It happened 4 miles outside the Gates of Fort Benning… thank God it didn’t happen on Base they would all be gone for Life …… Alberto and Mario got life in prison plus 15 years… and Woodcoff well that is another story… he spent 9 months in jail 5 years probation and he is no longer a felon… money talks….

    My son is my life and if I could trade places with him I would so he could get on with his life…. but they won’t let me…. so I do the time with him every weekend… and I will make sure he has a life when he comes home…

    Just a sad week for 5 families that week…. and where was the United States Army ???????? no where to be seen… Oh they came over to the jail to talk to Alberto and Mario about the rape in Iraq…. I told my son you stay in that cell DO NOT talk to them… we had two criminal attorneys… Oh they tried ….. he said you can talk to my lawyers… they went away …..

    Wish my son had never gone in the Army… I know that might sound bad and some people would not agree… but walk in my shoes for the past 9 years is what I say…..

    A loving Mother…….

  70. BIllie:

    With all due respect, your son was more than just “present.” Here is the version of events that he told investigators according to CBS News:

    Burgoyne [Billie’s son] tells Moriarty that Martinez was driving, and that he pulled over in a wooded area miles from Fort Benning, and everyone got out.

    “And that’s when I thought, ‘Well hell. We’re gonna fight. We’re gonna do it right here,’ ” Burgoyne explains.

    Burgoyne says he started hitting Richard [Davis] again. Richard asked Burgoyne to leave him alone and covered his face.

    But what happened next, Burgoyne says, took him completely by surprise: Martinez pulled a knife. “And that’s when Martinez came out and just — thump — stuck him right in his side. His left side,” Burgoyne tells Moriarty.

    Asked why, Burgoyne said Martinez didn’t give an answer. After being stabbed, Burgoyne says Richard fell to the ground.

    Navarette says he tried to intervene. “I’m like, ‘Whoa, what are you doing Martinez? You can’t do this, man. We got to get ’em to a hospital. We can still save him.’ And he’s like, ‘Nah, man, he’s gonna report us. If we take him to a hospital he’s gonna report us and we’re gonna get in trouble.’ And I’m over here, I’m losing it. I’m telling Burgoyne, ‘Please man, stop it,’ ” Navarette says.

    “We started talking to him, and trying to plead with him,” Burgoyne says.

    “And then Burgoyne tells me, he grabs my shoulder and he said, ‘Calm down. Promise me to calm down. I’ll take care of this little brother. I’ll talk to Martinez.’ So I turned around and I walked towards the car,” Navarette tells Moriarty.

    Navarette claims he saw nothing of what happened next and Woodcoff claims he had drunkenly wandered away, and heard only a muffled argument. This left Burgoyne as the only witness.

    “I looked around, I seen him on top of Davis, he hit him, he stuck him and he was hittin’ him all in the back area in the kidney area and the lung area back in the back and the neck and skull area. He just started goin’ on a rampage with him like I ain’t never seen a man do. Never seen a man do that,” Burgoyne says.

    Asked what Richard was saying, Burgoyne says, “Said he had a family, screamin’. Said he had a family.”

    Burgoyne says he just stood there. “Last thing he said was he was dead. He was dead. He said it twice. And then I didn’t hear no more sounds. Martinez kept stickin’ him. Takin’ his time just kept stickin’ him and stickin’ him and stickin’ him. And he was puttin’ the blade in and then churnin’ it. That was it. It was over.”

    “You could’ve stopped him,” Moriarty says. “You didn’t even try.”

    “No,” Burgoyne replies. “I explained to him verbally but not physically, no I didn’t. Not when I saw his eyes. I saw the blood in his eyes and all you can do is see red. That was it. And he wanted to kill that guy. He wanted to. That was his thing. It scared the s— outta me.”

    During Martinez’ entire rampage, Burgoyne insists he was merely a bystander. It was only after Richard was dead that Burgoyne says he sprung into action.

    “I grabbed his legs and Martinez grabbed his arms. I just moved him off into the brush about five feet,” Burgoyne recalls.

    Asked why he would help Martinez, Burgoyne said, “I just wanted to go home. I wanted to get outta there, get away from it.”

    Next, all four soldiers drove to a convenience store where Burgoyne bought lighter fluid. Then they drove back to the woods.

    Burgoyne says he poured lighter fluid on Richard’s body, lit a match, and then ran away.

    Asked how he could do this, he says: “It was like I had no conscience. He was a dead body. It was like I had lost control and I wanted to get back and that was the only way to do it. And that’s what I thought off the top of my head. ‘Burn him.’ ”

    A few nights later, Burgoyne, Martinez and Navarette went back to hide Richard’s remains deeper in the woods.

    The four soldiers then all went their separate ways until they were arrested nearly four months later, and Burgoyne gave police his statement.

    When Lanny Davis [Richard Davis’ father] heard what Burgoyne told police, he was furious. He says he doesn’t buy the story that Martinez stabbed his son while the others simply stood by.

    “That’s the biggest crock of lies I ever heard in my life,” Lanny says.

    Asked what makes him think they’re lying, Lanny says: “Because they’re not afraid of Martinez. Martinez wasn’t the ring leader. I think Burgoyne was.”

    Justin Harris, who served in the military with all four men arrested for Richard’s murder, is also puzzled. He finds it hard to believe Martinez, who was married and a father and about to leave the Army, would commit such a crime.

    “As far as I’ve known Martinez, a couple years, he never even got into a fight. I was surprised by the whole situation really. But as far as picking a person out of it … it wouldn’t be Martinez,” says Harris.

    But Harris says Burgoyne’s involvement isn’t surprising at all. In fact, just before B Company deployed to Iraq in January 2003, Burgoyne had a confrontation with Richard at another strip club.

    “Richard threw some change on the stage. And the lady that was on the stage took that offensive. And we ended up being asked to leave. And Burgoyne said, ‘All I want to know is, who threw the change?’ ” Harris recalls. “And Richard raised his hand, almost instantly, and said, ‘I did.’ And when he said that, Burgoyne then started hitting him.”

    Harris says Burgoyne hit Richard pretty hard.

    “So, hearing that Jake was involved in this event, whatever it was that ended up with the death of Richard Davis, isn’t that surprising to you?” Moriarty asks Harris.

    “Not really. It doesn’t surprise me much at all,” he replies.

    But Burgoyne’s mother, Billie Urban, never doubted her son or his story that Martinez alone stabbed Richard. What she could not understand is why Burgoyne would watch it all happen, and then cover it up.

    “It’s like it’s another person, ’cause that’s not something my son would do,” she says.

  71. Messpo,

    As a lawyer (I presume) and a GB, do you buy stories relayed by CBS or any news media?

    Do you buy redacted, and edited interrogation material from police leaks? From parts speaking in their own behalf, trying to get free? From ex-parte people with what axes to grind, what old grudges to pay back, from fathers still in denial stages?

    You sir, are a joke if you do.

    Do you always fail to see the real culpables here? That is to say the people that sent him there, kept him there, and made him into what he became.

    Frankly I don’t care where the truth of this single deed lies, because it lies not with these soldiers.
    It is a tragedy and the rest of the nation and you too bear the blame.

    Are you blaming the PTSD’s, the mentally deranged former soldiers, the suicides?

    Wonder what you did after Vietnam when the vets were being spat upon? Did you spit too?

    You are a true patriot. Did they name the law after you? Guess not, there are so many like you who are willing to send other mens sons there.
    Rafflaw’s son could maybe enlighten you. If light can help you.

    How’re your civilian killing drones doing today?
    Has your police dept. got some yet? The ones with the Gatlings mounted?

    Billie is just one of thousands of sorrowing mothers, and some fathers too.
    Is a folded flag and the sight of war billionaires compensation for those losses?

  72. ID:

    ” Guess not, there are so many like you who are willing to send other mens sons there. Rafflaw’s son could maybe enlighten you. If light can help you.”

    ***********************

    You are the caricature of the reflexive liberal that so many moderates despise. Repeating the conservatives lies about returning Vietnam era soldiers being spat upon (they weren’t) and decrying every exercise in military might to protect the nation, you ignore the very words of the criminal because you like his mother’s premise that the Army and his wartime experience was to blame for his felonious and callous act. You have disqualified yourself from rational debate. Keep bleating the party line. You might make some converts among the unwashed who gullibly hate anything associated with the nation’s military. However among those of us not afraid to look at the facts of the situation before judging it … well … let’s just say you’ve come up a tad short.

    And finally, unlike you, I’ve met rafflaw’s son and I also know quite a bit about rafflaw’s father, too. His dad died serving his country and his son stands for everything right about this country having served in the military himself. I have no doubt they both viewed their service with pride and would deplore the excuse making utilized by these soldiers here as they try to mitigate their role in cold calculated murder.

  73. Details, details.
    You avoid my accusation that using the material from CBS you show a damning poor judgement if you are a lawyer or a wise news consumer. Have you read all the interrogatins? Have you read court testimony?
    Until you do, then you are still a joke ss a lawyer.

    My position is obvious. I don’t like warmongers, however much they play the marching band.
    Are you marching? Not only that, you are singing praises of the mythical war hero, not the real ones.

    As for Rafflaws son service. I can’t knnw his servic details. How much he saw of our village patrols, our pissing on corpses. But I wager that I know why he volunteered. But that is a private area, and i won’t violate it.

    I am glad for him that he is home. And for Rafflaw who lost a father, but not his son.

    Liberal, you bet I am. Proud of it. The human party, if we must have parties.

  74. TO MESPO727272

    Hello… I never said my son was perfect in any of this and he did do some wrong doing…. I hate to speak of someone so badly that has passed… but…. Richard Davis was not an angel… he slapped woman around verbally abused woman… no one at Fort Benning wanted to bunk with him… it was very well known at the base… not that he should be murdered… Harris …….I know him and he is a drunk… and a coward …. in Iraq you could find him hiding behind a Bradley when the shooting started… Harris didn’t like my son ….. and yes they did go to the store and buy lighter fluid and tried to burn the body… well that is what they did to the bodies in Iraq… because there were so many of them…. My son new he was going to prison…. and Martinez he was gang banger out in Calf… it was tattooed across his shoulders what gang he belonged to in Calf. The 103 Soldiers I spoke to didn’t trust Alberto Martinez at all… and Harris was one of the guys that didn’t trust him….

    My son came down on Soldier Harris in Iraq because he was a coward.. and kept hiding every time shooting started… and almost got a few of the guys killed over there…. so yes I guess you could say Harris didn’t like my son ….. and every time I saw Harris he was drunk…

    Mr Davis and his wife wanted all 4 young men dead…because there son was murdered… hell I might have too…. if my son was murdered…. and here is a bit of information you don’t know….. Woodcoff handed Martinez the knife that murdered Richard Davis that came out in the DA office with my son sitting there my son’s lawyer and the DA and the assistant DA… but the deal was already made to my son… so that bit went under the carpet….

    I have 28 pages of medical records on my son… he tried to take his own life 5 days before returning home he was on suicide watch for 72 hours… he was in bad shape… did he do some wrong doing sure he did… he was the only one talking though….. Woodcoff and Mario got on the stand and lied…. Woodcoff wasn’t off in the bushes throwing up…. he was right there… he didn’t go running home and tell his mother guess what happen no he didn’t open his mouth… he got 9 months in jail… 5 years probation and is no longer a felon…. and the last I read in the state of GA for concealing of a death in the state of GA. is 10 years….

    you cant believe everything you read in the paper…..They were all pretty messed up when they got back to the states…. Thank you United States Army for helping them all…. RIGHT they closed there doors to the DA’s office and everyone else…. Alberto and Mario raped a girl in Iraq and Richard Davis caught them…..Martinez had some of his buddies from Calf. calling Mario’s family in Texas threatening them or to kill them… that is a fact… the lady that wrote the book found this our… so Mario was scared and he stuck by his buddy Martinez and he went right down with him life in prison plus 15 years…. and Mario didn’t deserve that….

    Is my son perfect hell no… did he murder Richard Davis no he didn’t… and to tell ya the truth I’m glad that my son didn’t get near Alberto that night he could have killed them all he was pure rage… he wanted Richard Davis dead…he came after him back in the states and planned it it came out in Trial.. and also the medic testified that they had come after Richard Davis in Iraq and cut him all up… to hear the story when Richard Davis murdered… its like they were all there for 20 min saying geeeesssss what do we do now…. no this all went down in about 3 min…. maybe 4 min….

    Where was the United States Army…. when they came home ?????? no where ….. they tossed them all away like trash…. after they had given 110 percent of themselves and did what was asked of them in Iraq….

    My son still has a life a head of him…. OH hell yes my son took the plea bargain… they had put in for change of venue and separate trials and it was all turned down… so this trial took place about 8 miles from the gates of Fort Benning where 18 thousand soldiers train… my son would have been sitting at that table with Mario and Martinez and he would have gone right down with them…. The deals that go on behind close doors… and money talks… and who can get there pic on the front page of the paper first is what it was all about… no justice…. my son was the biggest guy out of all of them…. So as the media said well he must be the ring leader ……. my son didn’t’ hang out with these guys…. and no he didn’t like Richard Davis … he didn’t’ like how he treated woman…

    I raised my son to respect woman and never raise his hand to one…. I can’t say that about Richard Davis…. Richard Davis was going to turn Alberto and Mario in for raping that 12 or 13 year old girl at Baghdad airport …. the Army came to the jail and questioned them both on the matter… like they are going to sit there and tell the Army oh YA We raped a girl…. hell no they didn’t the Army that…..

    So much crap was going on in Iraq between our soldiers it was crazy…

    I wish I could bring Richard Davis back to his family… His Dad died 2 years ago… they are now together…. Mr. Davis and I liked each other and talked at trial… It was a sad day for 5 families….

    Like I said did my son do some wrong going yes he did… but he didn’t murder Richard Davis…… My son said the truth would set him free… he came back and turned himself in and the rest of them and he lead the Sheriffs Office to the body… yes it laid there for 2 and half months… all of this came out in trial….

    I will be right there for my son and make sure he has a life he has been through a lot… and has his demons… Alberto Martinez Murdered Richard Davis that night…. I wonder how many drugs the Army was pumping into him… they sure were pumping alot into my son…

    Don’t always believe what you read in the paper or what 48 hour says or news people they want to sell a story… I was at that trial the whole week… and let me tell you Mr. Davis came up on the edge of his seat 3 times and wanting to go after Alberto Martinez in that court room… I know I was sitting behind him and his wife at trial….

    A sad day for 5 families lives… changed our lives forever… Neither my son or myself have made money of any of this… we just wanted the truth…. I can’t say that for Mrs. Davis… she got 60 thousand for the movie and she has wrote a book …. and she is still trying to bring in money in over the death of her son… just saying… how sad is that….

    A loving Mother…. thank you for printing all of that…. most of it is the truth…. I say bring all our Soldiers home…….

    We never know where life is going to take us… Let me say I know my son is a good man I raised him… this crazy war did mess with his mind… to much death….

    No one walks into the Sheriffs Office and say arrest me I have just murdered someone or I have raped someone…. I have never seen that happen…..

    I don’t judge my son that night …… unless I could walk in his shoes… I do know who Killed Richard Davis and that was Alberto Martinez… and he will be in prison the rest of his life…

    when they left that jail after trail they were all in the same van and they all went to Savanna GA. to be shipped out to different prison’s and my son looked at Martinez and said to him……why did you kill Richard Davis… he said just because…. so how sick does that make him….

    Billie

  75. TO MESPO727272

    Hello… I never said my son was perfect in any of this and he did do some wrong doing…. I hate to speak of someone so badly that has passed… but…. Richard Davis was not an angel… he slapped woman around verbally abused woman… no one at Fort Benning wanted to bunk with him… it was very well known at the base… not that he should be murdered… Harris …….I know him and he is a drunk… and a coward …. in Iraq you could find him hiding behind a Bradley when the shooting started… Harris didn’t like my son ….. and yes they did go to the store and buy lighter fluid and tried to burn the body… well that is what they did to the bodies in Iraq… because there were so many of them…. My son new he was going to prison…. and Martinez he was gang banger out in Calf… it was tattooed across his shoulders what gang he belonged to in Calf. The 103 Soldiers I spoke to didn’t trust Alberto Martinez at all… and Harris was one of the guys that didn’t trust him….

    My son came down on Soldier Harris in Iraq because he was a coward.. and kept hiding every time shooting started… and almost got a few of the guys killed over there…. so yes I guess you could say Harris didn’t like my son ….. and every time I saw Harris he was drunk…

    Mr Davis and his wife wanted all 4 young men dead…because there son was murdered… hell I might have too…. if my son was murdered…. and here is a bit of information you don’t know….. Woodcoff handed Martinez the knife that murdered Richard Davis that came out in the DA office with my son sitting there my son’s lawyer and the DA and the assistant DA… but the deal was already made to my son… so that bit went under the carpet….

    I have 28 pages of medical records on my son… he tried to take his own life 5 days before returning home he was on suicide watch for 72 hours… he was in bad shape… did he do some wrong doing sure he did… he was the only one talking though….. Woodcoff and Mario got on the stand and lied…. Woodcoff wasn’t off in the bushes throwing up…. he was right there… he didn’t go running home and tell his mother guess what happen no he didn’t open his mouth… he got 9 months in jail… 5 years probation and is no longer a felon…. and the last I read in the state of GA for concealing of a death in the state of GA. is 10 years….

    you cant believe everything you read in the paper…..They were all pretty messed up when they got back to the states…. Thank you United States Army for helping them all…. RIGHT they closed there doors to the DA’s office and everyone else…. Alberto and Mario raped a girl in Iraq and Richard Davis caught them…..Martinez had some of his buddies from Calf. calling Mario’s family in Texas threatening them or to kill them… that is a fact… the lady that wrote the book found this our… so Mario was scared and he stuck by his buddy Martinez and he went right down with him life in prison plus 15 years…. and Mario didn’t deserve that….

    Is my son perfect hell no… did he murder Richard Davis no he didn’t… and to tell ya the truth I’m glad that my son didn’t get near Alberto that night he could have killed them all he was pure rage… he wanted Richard Davis dead…he came after him back in the states and planned it it came out in Trial.. and also the medic testified that they had come after Richard Davis in Iraq and cut him all up… to hear the story when Richard Davis murdered… its like they were all there for 20 min saying geeeesssss what do we do now…. no this all went down in about 3 min…. maybe 4 min….

    Where was the United States Army…. when they came home ?????? no where ….. they tossed them all away like trash…. after they had given 110 percent of themselves and did what was asked of them in Iraq….

    My son still has a life a head of him…. OH hell yes my son took the plea bargain… they had put in for change of venue and separate trials and it was all turned down… so this trial took place about 8 miles from the gates of Fort Benning where 18 thousand soldiers train… my son would have been sitting at that table with Mario and Martinez and he would have gone right down with them…. The deals that go on behind close doors… and money talks… and who can get there pic on the front page of the paper first is what it was all about… no justice…. my son was the biggest guy out of all of them…. So as the media said well he must be the ring leader ……. my son didn’t’ hang out with these guys…. and no he didn’t like Richard Davis … he didn’t’ like how he treated woman…

    I raised my son to respect woman and never raise his hand to one…. I can’t say that about Richard Davis…. Richard Davis was going to turn Alberto and Mario in for raping that 12 or 13 year old girl at Baghdad airport …. the Army came to the jail and questioned them both on the matter… like they are going to sit there and tell the Army oh YA We raped a girl…. hell no they didn’t the Army that…..

    So much crap was going on in Iraq between our soldiers it was crazy…

    I wish I could bring Richard Davis back to his family… His Dad died 2 years ago… they are now together…. Mr. Davis and I liked each other and talked at trial… It was a sad day for 5 families….

    Like I said did my son do some wrong going yes he did… but he didn’t murder Richard Davis…… My son said the truth would set him free… he came back and turned himself in and the rest of them and he lead the Sheriffs Office to the body… yes it laid there for 2 and half months… all of this came out in trial….

    I will be right there for my son and make sure he has a life he has been through a lot… and has his demons… Alberto Martinez Murdered Richard Davis that night…. I wonder how many drugs the Army was pumping into him… they sure were pumping alot into my son…

    Don’t always believe what you read in the paper or what 48 hour says or news people they want to sell a story… I was at that trial the whole week… and let me tell you Mr. Davis came up on the edge of his seat 3 times and wanting to go after Alberto Martinez in that court room… I know I was sitting behind him and his wife at trial….

    A sad day for 5 families lives… changed our lives forever… Neither my son or myself have made money of any of this… we just wanted the truth…. I can’t say that for Mrs. Davis… she got 60 thousand for the movie and she has wrote a book …. and she is still trying to bring in money in over the death of her son… just saying… how sad is that….

    A loving Mother…. thank you for printing all of that…. most of it is the truth…. I say bring all our Soldiers home…….

    We never know where life is going to take us… Let me say I know my son is a good man I raised him… this crazy war did mess with his mind… to much death….

    No one walks into the Sheriffs Office and say arrest me I have just murdered someone or I have raped someone…. I have never seen that happen…..

    I don’t judge my son that night …… unless I could walk in his shoes… I do know who Killed Richard Davis and that was Alberto Martinez… and he will be in prison the rest of his life…

    when they left that jail after trail they were all in the same van and they all went to Savanna GA. to be shipped out to different prison’s and my son looked at Martinez and said to him……why did you kill Richard Davis… he said just because…. so how sick does that make him….

    Billie

  76. Billie 1, October 5, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    TO MESPO727272

    Hello… I never said my son was perfect in any of this and he did do some wrong doing…. I hate to speak of someone so badly that has passed… but…. Richard Davis was not an angel… he slapped woman around verbally abused woman… no one at Fort Benning wanted to bunk with him… it was very well known at the base… not that he should be murdered… Harris …….I know him and he is a drunk… and a coward …. in Iraq you could find him hiding behind a Bradley when the shooting started… Harris didn’t like my son ….. and yes they did go to the store and buy lighter fluid and tried to burn the body… well that is what they did to the bodies in Iraq… because there were so many of them…. My son new he was going to prison…. and Martinez he was gang banger out in Calf… it was tattooed across his shoulders what gang he belonged to in Calf. The 103 Soldiers I spoke to didn’t trust Alberto Martinez at all… and Harris was one of the guys that didn’t trust him….

    My son came down on Soldier Harris in Iraq because he was a coward.. and kept hiding every time shooting started… and almost got a few of the guys killed over there…. so yes I guess you could say Harris didn’t like my son ….. and every time I saw Harris he was drunk…

    Mr Davis and his wife wanted all 4 young men dead…because there son was murdered… hell I might have too…. if my son was murdered…. and here is a bit of information you don’t know….. Woodcoff handed Martinez the knife that murdered Richard Davis that came out in the DA office with my son sitting there my son’s lawyer and the DA and the assistant DA… but the deal was already made to my son… so that bit went under the carpet….

    I have 28 pages of medical records on my son… he tried to take his own life 5 days before returning home he was on suicide watch for 72 hours… he was in bad shape… did he do some wrong doing sure he did… he was the only one talking though….. Woodcoff and Mario got on the stand and lied…. Woodcoff wasn’t off in the bushes throwing up…. he was right there… he didn’t go running home and tell his mother guess what happen no he didn’t open his mouth… he got 9 months in jail… 5 years probation and is no longer a felon…. and the last I read in the state of GA for concealing of a death in the state of GA. is 10 years….

    you cant believe everything you read in the paper…..They were all pretty messed up when they got back to the states…. Thank you United States Army for helping them all…. RIGHT they closed there doors to the DA’s office and everyone else…. Alberto and Mario raped a girl in Iraq and Richard Davis caught them…..Martinez had some of his buddies from Calf. calling Mario’s family in Texas threatening them or to kill them… that is a fact… the lady that wrote the book found this our… so Mario was scared and he stuck by his buddy Martinez and he went right down with him life in prison plus 15 years…. and Mario didn’t deserve that….

    Is my son perfect hell no… did he murder Richard Davis no he didn’t… and to tell ya the truth I’m glad that my son didn’t get near Alberto that night he could have killed them all he was pure rage… he wanted Richard Davis dead…he came after him back in the states and planned it it came out in Trial.. and also the medic testified that they had come after Richard Davis in Iraq and cut him all up… to hear the story when Richard Davis murdered… its like they were all there for 20 min saying geeeesssss what do we do now…. no this all went down in about 3 min…. maybe 4 min….

    Where was the United States Army…. when they came home ?????? no where ….. they tossed them all away like trash…. after they had given 110 percent of themselves and did what was asked of them in Iraq….

    My son still has a life a head of him…. OH hell yes my son took the plea bargain… they had put in for change of venue and separate trials and it was all turned down… so this trial took place about 8 miles from the gates of Fort Benning where 18 thousand soldiers train… my son would have been sitting at that table with Mario and Martinez and he would have gone right down with them…. The deals that go on behind close doors… and money talks… and who can get there pic on the front page of the paper first is what it was all about… no justice…. my son was the biggest guy out of all of them…. So as the media said well he must be the ring leader ……. my son didn’t’ hang out with these guys…. and no he didn’t like Richard Davis … he didn’t’ like how he treated woman…

    I raised my son to respect woman and never raise his hand to one…. I can’t say that about Richard Davis…. Richard Davis was going to turn Alberto and Mario in for raping that 12 or 13 year old girl at Baghdad airport …. the Army came to the jail and questioned them both on the matter… like they are going to sit there and tell the Army oh YA We raped a girl…. hell no they didn’t the Army that…..

    So much crap was going on in Iraq between our soldiers it was crazy…

    I wish I could bring Richard Davis back to his family… His Dad died 2 years ago… they are now together…. Mr. Davis and I liked each other and talked at trial… It was a sad day for 5 families….

    Like I said did my son do some wrong going yes he did… but he didn’t murder Richard Davis…… My son said the truth would set him free… he came back and turned himself in and the rest of them and he lead the Sheriffs Office to the body… yes it laid there for 2 and half months… all of this came out in trial….

    I will be right there for my son and make sure he has a life he has been through a lot… and has his demons… Alberto Martinez Murdered Richard Davis that night…. I wonder how many drugs the Army was pumping into him… they sure were pumping alot into my son…

    Don’t always believe what you read in the paper or what 48 hour says or news people they want to sell a story… I was at that trial the whole week… and let me tell you Mr. Davis came up on the edge of his seat 3 times and wanting to go after Alberto Martinez in that court room… I know I was sitting behind him and his wife at trial….

    A sad day for 5 families lives… changed our lives forever… Neither my son or myself have made money of any of this… we just wanted the truth…. I can’t say that for Mrs. Davis… she got 60 thousand for the movie and she has wrote a book …. and she is still trying to bring in money in over the death of her son… just saying… how sad is that….

    A loving Mother…. thank you for printing all of that…. most of it is the truth…. I say bring all our Soldiers home…….

    We never know where life is going to take us… Let me say I know my son is a good man I raised him… this crazy war did mess with his mind… to much death….

    No one walks into the Sheriffs Office and say arrest me I have just murdered someone or I have raped someone…. I have never seen that happen…..

    I don’t judge my son that night …… unless I could walk in his shoes… I do know who Killed Richard Davis and that was Alberto Martinez… and he will be in prison the rest of his life…

    when they left that jail after trail they were all in the same van and they all went to Savanna GA. to be shipped out to different prison’s and my son looked at Martinez and said to him……why did you kill Richard Davis… he said just because…. so how sick does that make him….

    Billie

Comments are closed.