New York Police Make First Arrest in Biker Attack on Family (Updated)

wife.jpgPolice have made an arrest in the extraordinary case of a gang of bikers who terrorized a family of Alexian Lien, 33, in New York City. One of the bikers filmed the entire chase and attack and then posted it on YouTube. He may have succeeded in incriminating his colleagues, including Christopher Cruz, 28. Cruz was charged with reckless endangerment, menacing, reckless driving and acting in a manner injurious to a child less than 17. (Update: A second suspect — Allen Edwards, 42, of Queens, charged with reckless endangerment, criminal mischief and menacing. He is believed to be the man seen on video below striking the Range Rover windows with his fists.).

One jacket has been identified as belonging to a New Rochelle motorcycle club. Moreover the videographer is identified but has not responded to inquiries. The bikers were engaged in a rally that they call “Hollywood Stuntz” in which they engage in obnoxious road stunts and generally harass drivers. The police arrested 15 people, confiscated 55 motorcycles and issued 68 summonses for the stunts starting in Times Square unconnected to the Lien attack.

The video shows Lien and his wife and child being stopped by the group. The bikers reportedly started denting the SUV with their helmets and may have slashed its tires. Lien is shown trying to escape by running over motorcycles and hitting at least one person. That person Edwin Mieses may be left a paraplegic after surgery for injuries to his heart, lungs and ribs.

100113_ff_motopsycho_640The video shows the bikers pursuing the fleeing SUV and making an attempt to enter it when stopped in traffic. Ultimately, bikers catch the SUV a third time and shatter the windows and attack Lien in front of his wife and daughter. Lien was pulled out of his car and slashed and beaten by the bikers.

166373_476227851052_6517087_n.jpgA person attacking in self-defense is afforded some leeway in flight. In torts, Lien would not have been able to use the vehicle to hit Mieses or others to protect the vehicle from property damage. You are not allowed to use force calculated to cause serious bodily injury or death in defense of property. However, the attack on the vehicle can be viewed as a threat to the family and thus the broader privilege of self-defense would apply. It is not clear that Mieses was attacking Lien but his motorcycle appears to be one of those blocking his escape. While the bikers can claim that the physical assault only came after they were attacked, it lends credence to Lien’s fear for his family. Moreover, even if responding to an attack on them, the common law does not extend the privilege of self-defense for the bikers to cover retaliation (which is involved in the pursuit and trapping of the family before the attack). The bikers may clearly seek a citizen arrest in blocking the SUV but the attack escalated such an effort into an unprivileged assault. At that point, the SUV does not appear to be moving or threatening the bikers.

The criminal and tort liability of the bikers could be based on their participation in trapping the family like fleeing game. The thuggish conduct of the rally before the attack could be cited as evidence of their culpability and modus operandi. As for the family, Mieses and other could sue by claiming that they are not part of those threatening the family and were negligently run over by Lien. In other words, this could be a complete mess with over-lapping and conflicting claims.

65 thoughts on “New York Police Make First Arrest in Biker Attack on Family (Updated)

  1. I think there is historical / cultural knowledge that those in the van claim of being surrounded, attacked, and beaten by a motorcycle gang surely would give them case to fear their own physical attack and that this belief would be reasonable. I don’t believe the motorcyclists will prevail on this one. But it is dependant a bit on what happened during the initial stop before the man was run over.

  2. These biker types are uncontrolled animals that deserve whatever punishment they receive. Biker types have this macho complex probably derived from some sort of juvenile video game or Brando movie, but when that misplaced macho results in reckless actions, they act more like rabid wild animals that need to be controlled to the fullest. Many bikers are excessively loud, obnoxious and unconcerned of their impact on others. When I now see a low rider or hear some loud no-pipe cycle, I simply think of monkeys and circus clowns on unicycles and it makes me laugh at their true station.

  3. OT:

    “Boy suspended after using finger as pretend gun

    Mother fighting for removal of suspension from son’s record”

    “HARMONY, Fla. –

    The mother of an 8-year-old Central Florida boy is fighting back after her son was suspended from school for using his finger as a play gun.

    Bonnie Bennett said her son, Jordan, was suspended Friday at Harmony Community School in Osceola County after playing cops and robbers with another student.

    “There was nothing in his hand. He used his thumb and index finger,” said Bennett. “It was a game. He made no threatening advances or threats to harm anyone. No words were said.”

    Bennett said she would have been satisfied with some form of punishment but is worried now that since he’s been suspended, her son will be seen as a violent child.

    “They took a child that has never been in trouble before and went to the extreme,” said Bennett. “A child that has no history of violence is now classified as a violent offender.”

    But the Osceola County School District said it wasn’t just a simple game.

    A school representative said the district can’t comment on the specifics of what happened because of confidentiality, but after reviewing the entire incident, Jordan’s actions showed to have violated the code of student conduct.

    Bennett said she’ll continue to fight, hoping the principal will remove the suspension from her son’s school record.

    “I’m prepared to go to court if I have to because this is wrong. It’s wrong for my son and any other child if they’re faced with the same thing because of a game,” Bennett said.

    According to Bennett’s son, the other boy involved was also sent home because of the incident.”

  4. jamie

    i’ve been riding for fourty+ years and people who ride are just like people in cars, they come in all types. just like people in suv’s who are to busy to pay attention to what’s happening in front of them.

    see, an entire comment with no name calling.

    (p.s. i’ve never even seen a brando movie)

  5. No one wants to see anyone hurt but engaging in the kind of behavior on a road with a car is reckless and I can only imagine the feelings inside the car at being chased and harassed. It would see to me that those who caused this situation should be the only ones liable or charged. The injured party should sue his brother bikers.

  6. The name of the Brando movie is “The Wild One”, and it is a great pulp flick. This gang seems to have studied the movie. And for addition yucks and/or irony points can you name the gang/”club” from “The Wild One”? That’s right, “The Black Rebels Motorcycle Club”.

  7. this is not a cut and dry case. the bikers were negligent and were 100% wrong in my eyes and I am a biker. I ride a loud obnoxious custom chopper but I am not a thug and I do not condone this activity. that being said, in the eyes of the law, the bikers could have a claim as indicated in this article. They could argue that Lien hit one of their fellow riders (as seen at the beginning of the video) and they could go after her for that. Lien could easily respond with a claim of contributory negligence. The bikers were simply riding too close to one another and his car, they were engaging in reckless activity, and the initial accident that provoked the incident was a result of gross negligence on the bikers behalf. Seeing that they were more negligent than Lien himself, who was cruising at an appropriate speed in the right lane, and abiding by all laws, they most likely could not succeed in a negligence case. As for Lien running over one of the bikers in an attempt to escape, that is a different story. Lien cannot use his car as a weapon, he cannot respond with excessive force, and he cannot retaliate… he can protect himself to a certain extent. The question is when is that line crossed? Could Lien argue contributory negligence here by arguing that Mieses was stop in the middle of a parkway, and riding a motorcycle which is inherently dangerous to begin with? Additionally, could Lien could argue self defense if he reasonably believed his life, or his families, was in immediate danger? Did he really have any other choice? does that matter? I think the bikers are in a bad spot here, but I am curious to see what comes of Lien, could he be penalized in any way and does he have a valid legal defense given the amount of force he used and the result of that force (a paralyzed man). Who is the cheapest cost avoider here? Society must now care for the paralyzed individual, is that fair? Is it fair to hold Lien liable when any reasonable person would have acted similarly?… as any case, it will come down to great lawyering, I’d love to hear a seasoned lawyers approach to defending Lien if he were sued.

  8. wow there is a whole section missing from the video… what started it all was one of the bikers deliberately swerved in front of liens suv and put on his brakes causing lien to bump him and that was the first attack which caused him to flee and hit the other bikers they all chased him and he stopped at one point and a biker took his helmet and broke out his window while another tried to smash the window where liens child was sitting. he fled again the last time he stopped for a red light at w 147th and that is when they dragged him out of the car beat and slashed him….

  9. oops sorry i looked again and i see it i dont see how all of you missed it..

    Sources said Christopher Cruz, 28 (pictured) cut Alexian Lien off on the Henry Hudson Parkway and caused the accident that triggered a wild 4-mile chase through upper Manhattan.

    Cops arrested one biker they say sparked a hell-on-wheels ordeal that ended with a mob of angry motorcyclists pulling a man from his SUV before beating and slashing him in front of his wife and 2-year-old child in upper Manhattan.

    Christopher Cruz, 28, was riding with a swarm of motorcycles when he swerved in front of Alexian Lien’s Range Rover on the Henry Hudson Parkway and stopped short, causing the 33-year-old driver to bump the biker’s back tire, police sources said.

  10. sad day in hell that kids can no longer play cops and robbers. but when you think about it. you really dont want your kids emulating the cops of today. next they will snatch the easy bake oven from the girls. and the list will go on. we can not allow them to distract us while they try to force thru that TPP pact elaine wrote about. that is what its truly all about

  11. It is quite clear that the riders were doing wrong by stopping traffic on the road. Lien reminds me of George Wallace who famously said that he would run over any protestor if they got in his way when he was driving. It is also clear that Lien was NOT being assaulted or threatened before he ran over the biker. After that, Lien became a fleeing felon who lost his rights by his own actions.

    The bikers can claim immediate rage caused by the crime Lien committed against one of their members who were engaged in harmless pranks, which while illegal, did not require the use of deadly force to be used.

    I hope Lien gets some heavy prison time for his crimes.

  12. What idiot blocks four tons of steel with a motorcycle. He deserved what he got! All of them should be charged for attempted murder! I wish I could be on the jury.

  13. The only mistake the driver of the SUV made was not throwing it in reverse and running over another dozen of the biker thugs at the end of the video.

    Every identifiable member of the biker gang should be charged with attempted murder.

  14. so in others words all of you would have stayed there with double digit bikers attacking you,with your wife and child in the car? give me a flipping break. if cruz hadnt deliberately braked his bike in front of lien the bump wouldnt have happened. any anyone of you saying you would have stayed and waited for the cops is lying and you well know it.. the attack began the minute he bumped cruz who deliberately caused it. proven by the helmet cam on the biker who posted it….

    @ randyjet i hope you get some sense and manage to find your humanity.. but hey karma is a itch that will get scratched….

  15. To all the non-lawyer biker types chiming in, the bikers had no legal right to pursue and assault the driver EVEN IF they thought (correctly or incorrectly) that the driver committed a crime by running over a bike at the beginning of the video. This is not the wild west or the middle east, and the law does not permit street-justice administered via beating. Many of these bikers will be convicted. The fact that the driver will likely be found completely innocent in the ordeal based on reasonable self defense and flight is, of course, another conversation entirely.

  16. I saw two cyclists move in front of the suv and stop, while many other cyclists were otherwise around it. We don’t see what happened immediately after that. Did other cyclists threaten Lien as they did later?

    If I were driving and a horde of cyclists surrounded me, preventing my forward movement on a one-way highway, I would be in fear for the life of myself and those riding with me. Imo, the cyclists were looking for trouble and found it. It’s too bad that one cyclist was seriously injured but when you engage in stupid and reckless behavior, shxx happens.

  17. “It’s too bad that one cyclist was seriously injured…” -bettykath


    “…but when you engage in stupid and reckless behavior, shxx happens.” -bettykath

    It certainly does. “Stupid… reckless”…and thuggish, IMO.

  18. I saw the video and at 24 sec. you can see that the motorcycle rider in front of the SUV turns around to look in the direction of the person filming and slows down a lot. That’s when the initial accident happened. Some vehicle can be heard honking but I don’t know which one. The cyclist initially hit drifts over into the van’s lane, crowding it immediately before cutting around the van and slowing down. The original accident was caused by the cyclist IMO. It looked like a pretty chaotic situation as they passed the van.

    We had a roadhouse with pretty good food a couple of miles from my house on the way to the nearby river/park. We would get groups of bikers on their runs on the way to the river and points beyond that would stop at that roadhouse on their way to the river and coming back from the river on the way to the highway. They were pretty orderly, and I drove in front of them a couple of times as well as observing them in front of me.

    They seemed to be well organized: a couple/pair of them would take and control a lane and the groups generally rode in series like that, in one or more lanes. It really looked like a some kind of choreographed movie scene and it was impressive. Once, a number of them passed me coming out of the lane I was in from behind and it was very orderly. I got to check out their bikes (nice) and didn’t feel cowed or crowded and no one cut me off. Those groups, which I would see a couple of times a year but haven’t seen in a few years since the roadhouse closed, seemed to pass in a safer manner than the group in the video did.

    If they started to hit his van and get threatening after the initial contact when he seemed to be stopped then I can see him running to get away even if he ran over somebody.

    Driving tip: I always slow down and put a bunch of space between myself and a motorcycle(s) in front of me because they can stop quite a bit shorter than an auto does. That can get them hit accidentally if there is a problem/obstruction laying in the road or cycle malfunction and they have to stop in the road. Slow down and give motorcycles some goodly space in front of you if you can do it safely.

  19. DRS writes “Society must now care for the paralyzed individual, is that fair?” Not if he is deemed liable for his own predicament. He should be tossed by the side of the road for causing his own problem. Or if his action was the result of his buddies threatening the driver to such an extent then he has his buddies to blame and they can either care for him or toss him.

    It will be interesting to see how the facts turn out.

  20. One thing no one wants to say is that these bikers were ALL minorities, and the most violent of them were black. When Lien stopped on the West Side Highway, some of these riot-prone individuals immediately began attacking him. He did what any reasonable man would do when faced with a violent mob endangering his wife and child; he hit the gas.

    Obama’s sons love to intimidate people, but when those they’ve terrorized hit back, they cry about how unfair it all is. The guy who was paralyzed (rap name “Jay Meezee”) just learned a hard lesson about the physics of using a motorcycle to stop a Range Rover.

    Maybe if his public school had spent more time on math, science, and civics, and less time on social agitation and instilling a sense of entitlement, he might have been somewhere other than trying to trap an terrified Asian family for sport.

  21. it looks like the person that was run over is one of the ones that helped stop the vehicle. Certainly seems like there wouldn’t be a good case there since the “victim” helped stop the vehicle where an attempted assault happened.

  22. If they started to hit his van and get threatening after the initial contact when he seemed to be stopped then I can see him running to get away even if he ran over somebody.

    That is a more reasonable take on this, but I did not see a group of bikers get off their bikes after that slight hit. The SUV looked like it simply ran over the bikers with no other action on their part other than they had stopped.

  23. These “bikers” are indeed trash and to refer to them as being “uncontrolled animals” is insulting to wild animals.

  24. Nice to know that Truth Teller is providing the Pat Buchanan/Paleocon angle in throwing race into the discussion.

    The family did nothing wrong, if I saw a bunch of bikers surrounding my truck, Im getting out of there as fast as I can. If one of the dirtbags is in my way well those are the breaks. They’re lucky that the family wasn’t armed

  25. Looked like kids looking for trouble…well they found it….too bad one was hurt so seriously, but they were probably lucky more weren’t hurt just as bad.
    The SUV driver used more restraint than I probably would have. If they had gotten me cornered in traffic I wouldn’t have taken any chances with my family…they’d have tire marks all over them…

  26. Individual Beasts raging together. Motorcycles can be a tool of tremendous freedom. …. When the Beast is freed …. Beastly things happen.
    Every individual on this ride is responsible. This was a twenty backed beast and they decided to hump, whatever or whoever they wanted.
    No torts or claims necessary. Every biker here & involved, is an accessory to a group think promotion of beastiness. They are all responsible for 1st degree intimidation with purpose and forethought. The actions of the driver were circumstantially rational and predictable. EFF these individual PIGs on their inidivdual bikes, with their groupthink Pig brains.

  27. chill1184, I’m more of a libertarian and Neo than a Paleo. As with most of the mob violence in the country today, race is the main factor, with blacks being the cause of the majority of interracial violence. For every example of a gang of whites attacking a minority, there are a hundred examples of minorities attacking whites and Asians.

    At the end of the chase, 100% of the bikers smashing the windows and pulling the driver out were black. Call it whatever you like.

    Feel free to deny that minorities have a chip on their shoulders and a sense of entitlement, then turn around and cry about their victimhood and shift the blame when they’re caught or hurt.

  28. Truth Teller,
    OK, you want some attention? Here ya go.

    Do you have any sources for your claim that …”100% of the bikers smashing the windows and pulling the driver out were black”?

    I mean besides the right-wing, racist WND article by Colin Flaherty?

    WND’s lead-in:
    “(Editor’s note: Colin Flaherty has done more reporting than any other journalist on what appears to be a nationwide trend of skyrocketing black-on-white crime, violence and abuse. WND features these reports to counterbalance the virtual blackout by the rest of the media due to their concerns that reporting such incidents would be inflammatory or even racist. WND considers it racist not to report racial abuse solely because of the skin color of the perpetrators or victims.)”

    Let Mr. Flaherty speak for himself:
    “Black mobs routinely terrorize cities across the country, but the media and government are silent. Read the detailed account of rampant racial crime in “White Girl Bleed A Lot: The Return of Racial Violence to America and How the Media Ignore It.””

    The first chapter of Flaherty’s “White Girl Bleed A Lot” is entitled “There’s a Riot Going On” with the subtitle “Race riots are exploding across the country. Cops deny it. Newspapers too. Thank God for YouTube.”

    Cops and Newspapers are denying it? Such a conspiracy!
    Yes! Thank the Great White Deity for YouTube, that endless fount of TRUTH About Illuminati, the New World Order, that damned eye on the back of the dollar bill, alien abductions, Bigfoot, and Jewish blood libel.

    Mr. Flaherty, whose article you’re plagiarizing as sole source, quotes no sources for his allegation that the incident was racial. He made the whole thing up.

    “One, the mob was black, says the police report. Two, this is merely the latest of several such examples of racial violence on wheels, witnesses say.”

    But he doesn’t quote the police report, or quote any witnesses.

    Please, Truth Teller, relay to us more plagiarized lies from Colin Flaherty. We await your epistles.

  29. Kauten, that’s the best you can do, suggesting that I plagiarized my views from someone else? My source for the claim that 100% of the bikers smashing the windows and attacking the driver were black is my own eyes, which looked at the pictures and videos.

    Start here:

    Duck the issue all you like, but the fact is that blacks are responsible for almost 95% of murders of other blacks, and 100% of the rapes of black women (as well as 1/3 of the rapes of white women), yet the media wants us to focus on the rare man-bites-dog story of a white attacker and black victim.

  30. I am sorry, any normal person would have done the same as the Lien Family. Sadly, enough we are seeing more and more of this kind of gang–collective harassment of innocent people and families on the road and elsewhere (retaliation?) . I don’t think any family or person (really for any reason) should be harassed or stalked…gangs and other ethnic groups feel they have a right to harass and bully others…classic example of gang behavior. Luckily they also caught it on film and also this gang should be happy not more of them were killed or hurt, CPS should take their kids away if this what this gang teachers youngsters to do. What was that biker trying to do with the SUV (assault) ? Charge him with endangering all in such a crowd?

  31. Truth Teller
    1, October 1, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    Obama’s sons love to intimidate people, but when those they’ve terrorized hit back, they cry about how unfair it all is.
    Like this? (NSFW-language)

  32. The Wild West moves to NY….. Gang Bangers get Bikes……

    This is all crazy…. And it’s unfortunate that anyone was hurt…. But they did start it and continued taunting them… I’d probably done the same thing…..

  33. God made rifles for a reason. Now in NYC it may be more difficult to pick off bikers with a rifle from a distance due to the congestion. But you could get one or two.

  34. My dad had a gas station in Texas. When bikers came in he turned off the pumps and locked the rest rooms, the front door and got out the hand gun. Then he sent my brother Jack out to talk to them. If they said they were outta gas, he said he was out of patience.

  35. This is an interesting discussion since it helps me understand the mentality of Zimmerman when he shot Martin. I see that most folks here hate and fear bikers, and thus are willing to grant carte blanche to those who use that fear as an excuse to run over them. I looked at the CNN report on this and they included most of what happened before Lien ran over the bikers. As THEY pointed out, the video gives NO evidence that the bikers assaulted Lien after the bump. Simply standing around blocking the SUV is NOT cause for running over people, unless you are George Wallace in his bad old days. Indeed, as one who has been on strike, that is what we normally DO in fact. Just because Lien had a fear, does not give him the right to run over them. The subsequent actions of the bikers in attacking the SUV is of course, wrong and illegal too, but if you think that Lien was right in running over the bikers when they stopped him, then you will have to grant the bikers their right to be incensed when Lien fled the scene.

  36. After reading all of the comments here I’d like to award the most entertaining post to RANDYJET “The bikers can claim immediate rage” I would absolutely love to hear a judges response to that

  37. Where these guys out of control? YES they were. Hell, not even 1%ers try to hog the whole road. The question is even given the facts of them blocking the road, why did the driver of the SUV even get himself in the middle of them and then try to push them out of the way. He’s at fault too. And the fact that he’s not charged with anything is wrong. I doubt he would have tried that crap with Harleys…..

  38. “DA: Bike assault thug ‘won’t be charged at this time’”


    The Manhattan DA’s office won’t press charges against one of the motorcycle thugs who allegedly terrorized and beat a man after a wild chase on the West Side Highway, and is reluctant to prosecute another, sources said Wednesday.

    Allen Edwards, 43, of Queens, who allegedly smashed Alexian Lien’s rear driver’s side window with his fist, surrendered to cops Tuesday morning but will not be charged, the sources said.

    “The DA declined to prosecute. Look at [The Post’s] front page [Tuesday]. He’s there on the motorcycle right next to [Lien] after he got his ass kicked,” an angry law enforcement source said.

    Video shows Edwards pummeling the rear window of Lien’s Range Rover, near where his infant daughter was belted into a child seat, and Lien on the ground with Edwards next to him.

    Another source said prosecutors were reluctant to charge a second biker, Christopher Cruz, 28, of Passaic, N.J., who brake-checked the SUV so the bikes could take over the road.

    But the DA’s office relented because of pressure from the NYPD and widespread publicity about the case, and Cruz was charged with endangering the welfare of a child and reckless driving.

    “The case is weak. It was too early to tell if he committed the crimes he was charged with. It needed much more investigation,” the second source said.

    A rep for Manhattan DA Cy Vance’s office said Edwards “won’t be charged at this time. The entire case is still under investigation.“

    Police, meanwhile, are zeroing in on two other suspects, including the one who slashed Lien, sending him to the hospital for stitches.

    “They’re trying to ID two of the guys. One of them is the main guy. He’s the one that assaulted the victim. On the video, he was wearing the chrome helmet that has a logo of a bird,” a third source said late Tuesday.

    “We have recovered a lot of video — new video — from bikers who videotaped the ride. One video shows the guy in the chrome helmet ripping the victim out of the SUV. The video then cuts off. [But] we also have a witness who filled in the gaps on what happened next.”

    The video, the source said, shows the biker in the chrome helmet throwing the terrified dad to the ground and stomping on his head.

    The second suspect being sought also smashed windows on the SUV, the source added.

    “He’s wearing orange and he hit the window of the SUV,” the source said.

    Cops have gotten photos of hundreds of license plates from bridge and tunnel cameras and are trying to identify more of the bikers, who first swarmed Lien, his wife and child on the West Side Highway in Harlem Sunday about 1:30 p.m.

    But many of the plates are stolen or belong on different bikes, making it tougher to ID the motorcyclists.

    The chase was caught on video by a helmet camera worn by one of the bikers — who later posted it on YouTube.

    Early on in the chase, as Lien sped off to escape the pack, he ran over 26-year-old biker Jeremiah Mieses of Lawrence, Mass., whose spine was crushed

    The gang eventually caught the fleeing Lien in Washington Heights, where he was dragged out of his car and beaten in front of his family.

    End of article

  39. there will always be those who will see the situation the way they want to no matter what happens… they will always be the ones who will blame anyone but the real perps… lien did stop after the initial accident. and was attacked should have stayed there and let them kill him? will that make you feel better glenn and randy?

    even with video evidence you’re still trying to twist it around. smfh oh and let me ask this.. why exactly did miese stop his bike directly in front of lien? i mean liens suv was stopped.

    oh well if telling yourself lies allows you to sleep at night. so be it. just remember fate works on karma. and what goes around comes back around. they started it and now one of their own is permanently damaged because of it

    and the video was posted by one of the bikers who was side by side with the suv when it all began…

  40. Ha Ha, isn’t justice sweet?
    How Could the driver only get one out of that whole crowd?
    Someone, help him church up his driving skills !!

  41. Glenn: “The question is even given the facts of them blocking the road, why did the driver of the SUV even get himself in the middle of them and then try to push them out of the way.”

    Glenn, look at the video- the bikers were behind him and were passing him, He did’t get in the middle of them, that’s where he ended up as they passed.

  42. Truth Teller,
    “Kauten, that’s the best you can do, suggesting that I plagiarized my views from someone else?”

    No, Truthiness, that’s far from the best I can do. I was doing my best to be civil.

    In my defense, I’d like to point out that I did NOT, in my reply to your rant, use the pejoratives “racist,” “redneck,” “cracker,” “honkey,” or “white trash.”

    I have far too much respect for you to characterize you in that way, and I respect the civility rules of this forum too much to use those words.

    Well, maybe I could make an exception, and use the word “racist.” I doubt that you’d be offended by that characterization.

  43. —–It is quite clear that the riders were doing wrong by stopping traffic on the road. Lien reminds me of George Wallace who famously said that he would run over any protestor if they got in his way when he was driving. It is also clear that Lien was NOT being assaulted or threatened before he ran over the biker. After that, Lien became a fleeing felon who lost his rights by his own actions.

    The bikers can claim immediate rage caused by the crime Lien committed against one of their members who were engaged in harmless pranks, which while illegal, did not require the use of deadly force to be used.

    I hope Lien gets some heavy prison time for his crimes.——–

    I almost went into a coma trying to reduce my higher brain functions to the point where this kind of reasoning would make sense in the real world.

  44. Pure stupidity. I am a motorcyclist and am appalled at the actions of some in this club. Thanks for another black mark on motorcyclists in general. Defend yourself…the aggressive bullies tragically get what they deserve for escalating the situation from a minor incident. Forget your Vin Diesel movies and Ultimate fighting, one punch can kill and 10 punches from a gang most likely will. I probably would have done the same under similar circumstances but they never would have succeeded in dragging me out of the car…well at least not without a 9mm in the leaders kneecap as soon as he broke through the window.

  45. @randyjet so far we have that the bikers can “claim rage” and have a “right to be incensed.” What legal system are we operating under here?

  46. Not a lawyer but I have a little common sense. Mieses was operating a vehicle with a revoked license. Why exactly would he even have a case?

  47. when you want to really get to the bottom for the trouble and true blame you have to look at the so called bikers riding for the (fun?) of it, if the bikers really didn’t want any trouble they could have dropped back, accelerated ahead of the suv and just plain left them alone but this is not the mind set when you have a gang of bikers out riding together and if you like it or not they were raising hell and taking over the road in a dangerous and law breaking manner. you say the driver of the suv (lien) didn’t have to run over a biker to get away, well, just look at what happened to lien when they finally got him cornered .If you bikers were riding according to the rules of the road (see manuel for motorcycle riding) you would not have been a threat to the suv in the first place and the thing that you didn’t expect was lien to protect himself and his family from you bikers/? and sadly enough the thing that usually happens when you corner some one to threaten harm or the intent of it is that the victim fights back and fights anyway he can. To hell with how much force and did he have a right under the law, and did he say pretty please will you let me and my family go, this plain bullshit, you were a bunch of so called hard ass hard riding bikers and you were going to own the road, nobody else’s rights counted, after all, you bikers are invincible, well, you didn’t read this guy right and you paid the price and yes all of the bikers on the film and all that can be id-ed should be in jail right now. what do you say police and judges etc. of the world’s finest are you going to uphold the law or start nit picking it to death to let these stupid juvenile bikers off the hook because it is the easy way to go. Watch out Lien, you may go to jail and have your suv impounded for defending yourself and your family, what a country we have become, it makes one sick, if you can’t be safe on this particular road then you won’t be safe anywhere these immature bike rides are out showing off an endangering everyone around them including them selves. i wonder if they were going after any old ladies next?–watch out Grama, the law won’t help you, look up how many cell phone calls the driver of the suv’s wife made and never got a police officer. This should be a warning to anyone that wants to go on vacation especially with a motor vehicle etc., do not go to New York City on vacation or a visit as you could wind up going to jail for protecting yourself while you are there. under any circumstances. not worth it!

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