The Murder Of Rashid Rehman

rashid-rehmanThe legal profession this week lost one of our best and bravest. Pretending to be potential clients in a matrimonial case, two people entered the law firm of Rashid Rehman Khan and shot him to death. Rashid Rehman, a coordinator for the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP), had faced death threats for years after he courageously represented a university professor accused of blasphemy. Unable to kill the accused, Islamic extremists appear to have now killed the lawyer. Rehman never flinched in his commitment to the rule of law and to this country.

Pakistan’s continued prosecution of people for expressing their views of faith remains one of the great outrages of our generation. Pakistan is one of our allies that has worked with the Obama Administration to create a new international blasphemy standard. The continued crackdown of anti-religious speech is part of its long-standing blasphemy abuses. For many years, I have been writing about the threat of an international blasphemy standard and the continuing rollback on free speech in the West. For recent columns, click here and here and here.

We have been following the rise of anti-blasphemy laws around the world, including the increase in prosecutions in the West and the support of the Obama Administration for the prosecution of some anti-religious speech under the controversial Brandenburg standard.

The case involving Rehman is typical and disgraceful. Junaid Hafeez, a lecturer at Multan’s Bahauddin Zakariya University was accused of defaming the prophet Mohammed on social media last year. No one would represent the professor until Rehman stepped forward. He was greeted at court with threats against his life. Three lawyers representing the complainant confronted him and reportedly one told him “You will not come to court next time because you will not exist anymore.” Notably, these threats were reportedly made in front of a judge who took no action against those making the threats — an outrageous violation of every principle under the rule of law.

Pakistan (one of our largest recipients of aid) continues to jail people who simply express their faith or views on religion.

There are at least 16 people in Pakistan are on death row for blasphemy and in 2012 the Center for Research and Security Studies found that more than 50 people accused of blasphemy have been lynched since 1990.

This brave lawyer is now dead and the judge who took no action on the threats continues to sit on cases and those lawyers who allegedly threatened him continue to practice law. Putting aside our earlier work on an international blasphemy standard, the question is why we continue to send billions to countries that aggressively fight the core civil liberties that defines not just this country but the rule of law. The death of this extraordinary man is a disgrace not just to Pakistan but those who dismiss blasphemy prosecutions as simply some local or domestic concern. It is not just the denial of due process but the denial of free speech and free exercise — rights that should be guaranteed to all as a basic matter of human rights.

Source: ABA Journal

186 thoughts on “The Murder Of Rashid Rehman

  1. The US has gotten complacent as a nation and culture. Why are there not more attorneys speaking up about the abuses of our government. They would face no physical or even criminal danger. The problem is they face public scorn as our host has experienced, but continues to speak truth. Our complacency has made simple scorn by our friends, associates, etc. a reason to be silent. Colombia was ruled by narco terrorists in the 80’s/90’s. It took courageous attorneys, judges, police and journalists to retake their country and restore it to a solid democracy where people no longer live in fear. We are soft, and it is never more apparent than when stories like this brave man are told.

  2. The dynamics of fundamentalism have one thing in common in all cultures, violence.

    Religious fundamentalism leads to racism:

    Fundamentalism is consistently related to racial prejudice (Hall, Matz, & Wood, 2010), yet the mechanisms for this relationship are unclear. We identify two core values of fundamentalism, authoritarianism and traditionalism, that independently contribute to the fundamentalism-racial prejudice relationship. We also contextualize the fundamentalism-racial prejudice relationship by suggesting that fundamentalists may show prejudice based on conceptions of African Americans as violating values but show tolerance when prejudice is less justifiable. These ideas are tested and confirmed using three data sets from the American National Election Studies. Across all three samples, fundamentalism is related to increases in symbolic racism but decreases in negative affect towards African Americans, and these relationships are mediated by both authoritarianism and traditionalism.

    (Symbolic Racism: A Look At The Science – 3, quoting Mark J. Brandt, Christine Reyna, To Love or Hate Thy Neighbor: The Role of Authoritarianism and Traditionalism in Explaining the Link Between Fundamentalism and Racial Prejudice, Political Psychology, 2014, 35, 2). Down in the cultural amygdala is where there is a lot of static, but even further deep down in the amygdala, things get violent because people think they are better than the ones they have it out for.

  3. Pakistan seems to be a simmering cauldron of insanity. With nuclear weapons. I bet the NED can’t even get an ideological foothold there (which is pretty bad considering the company and their atrocious conduct they keep in Ukraine…). Forget the blasphemy standard, forget the aid, how about a plan to secure those nukes when the same shooters get a hold of the trigger for those things. They might show up anywhere…

  4. Fundamentalists are extremists. Bad things happen when they run a country because they feel they have a divine imperative to tell you how you must live your life. In this case they are Muslim. My tutorial. Thank you.

    Dredd excellent info once again. I’ll be checking back to that page many times in future.

  5. I don’t support your fundamentalist conclusion, but I will agree that there are a large percentage of extremists there. If people choose to hate, they will leverage any morsel of any argument to enable their hate. Religion is easy, especially once you’ve justified to yourself you have satisfied all the requirements to act properly on behalf of said religion. Humans have an incredible knack for taking what should be the best of things, and making them the worst of things. Maybe that’s Pakistan in a nutshell. I have a great family friend who is from Pakistan, and you have to feel for him knowing what continues to go on there.

  6. I feel most sorry for the women and children in those societies. Men like this attorney who spoke out and defended an accused blasphemer are incredibly brave, but I fear that countries lke Pakistan and the rest of the Stan’s and Arab countries who have a state religions are doomed to more of the same unless they break away from fundamentalist beliefs. My opinion only.

  7. We have people in this country who hate lawyers for what the law imposes on them.

    If they did not present a defense in the best manner they know how to, they would be violating the law of agency, seeing how they are fiduciaries.

    A recent Obama appointee was one such victim.

    Ignorance is the driving factor:

    On March 28-31, 2014, we asked a national sample of 2,066 Americans (fielded via Survey Sampling International Inc., or SSI), what action they wanted the U.S. to take in Ukraine, but with a twist: In addition to measuring standard demographic characteristics and general foreign policy attitudes, we also asked our survey respondents to locate Ukraine on a map as part of a larger, ongoing project to study foreign policy knowledge. We wanted to see where Americans think Ukraine is and to learn if this knowledge (or lack thereof) is related to their foreign policy views. We found that only one out of six Americans can find Ukraine on a map, and that this lack of knowledge is related to preferences: The farther their guesses were from Ukraine’s actual location, the more they wanted the U.S. to intervene with military force.

    (Washington Post, quoting 3 political scientists). The same thing applies on blogs.

  8. Islamic extremists feel called to murder anyone who offends them. It’s true that women fare worst under Sharia law, and yet it is expanding into more countries, not less.

    We need to vote with our dollars on human rights, and stop supporting countries who hate us and do not allow freedom of religion.

  9. The US needs to disengage from these countries and the President must repudiate blasphemy laws and the international blasphemy standard now being worked on at the UN. We cannot allow religious fanatics to tell us what we can and cannot say, criticize or make fun of. The Presient must stand up for free speech and must tell the Islamic countries who are pushing hard for this international blashemeny standard and extra jurisdictional enforcement of their blasphemny laws that he and the US will not permit it. For too long we have been complacent about this in the name of “tolerance”. It has only fueled the fire and make the fundamentalists even more brazen,

  10. Justice, You are correct. However, in an incredibly misguided philosophy of “reaching out” to these crazy countries, we have not appeased them but emboldened them. Obama refuses to strongly denounce these blaspheme laws. Maybe because he envies them? Hillary Clinton, no doubt under Clinton’s orders, REFUSED to put the Boko Haram terrorists in Nigeria, who recently kidnapped 260 girls, on the terrorist list. Congress and nonpartisan experts pleaded w/ them for 2 years to do so. Kerry finally did this but just a few months ago.

  11. Surely it is blasphemous for any human being – not a Divine Authority – to claim to know the mind of God? Can anyone who truly respects Divine Authority speak about religious matters except with the greatest caution and humility? Brash arrogance is not the signature of a True Believer. How will God treat those who speak as if they equalled Him in rank?

  12. Nick: “misguided philosophy of “reaching out” to these crazy countries”

    Countries are not one person. There are good people and bad people, and we should reach out to the good people whenever we can.

    “we have not appeased them but emboldened them”

    We embolden them by appeasing them.

    “Obama refuses to strongly denounce these blaspheme laws. Maybe because he envies them?”

    Slander.

    “Hillary Clinton, no doubt under Clinton’s orders, REFUSED to put the Boko Haram terrorists in Nigeria, who recently kidnapped 260 girls, on the terrorist list.”

    Proof? Source?

    “Under “Obama’” orders”

    No doubt? I have doubt. Perhaps you have some source to verify your assertion?

  13. Karen S:

    “Islamic extremists feel called to murder anyone who offends them.”

    So do Christian Extremists, Jewish extremists, Hindu extremists…

    “We need to vote with our dollars on human rights, and stop supporting countries who hate us and do not allow freedom of religion.”

    Do you buy gasoline? Do you know how much of that comes from Saudi Arabia?

  14. Nick: ““Obama refuses to strongly denounce these blaspheme laws. Maybe because he envies them?”

    The truth:

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/09/26/president-obama-to-united-nations-we-do-not-ban-blasphemy/

    Obama:

    “I know there are some who ask why we don’t just ban such a video. The answer is enshrined in our laws: our Constitution protects the right to practice free speech. Here in the United States, countless publications provoke offense. Like me, the majority of Americans are Christian, and yet we do not ban blasphemy against our most sacred beliefs.”

    “Moreover, as President of our country, and Commander-in-Chief of our military, I accept that people are going to call me awful things every day, and I will always defend their right to do so. Americans have fought and died around the globe to protect the right of all people to express their views — even views that we disagree with.”

    “We do so not because we support hateful speech, but because our Founders understood that without such protections, the capacity of each individual to express their own views, and practice their own faith, may be threatened. We do so because in a diverse society, efforts to restrict speech can become a tool to silence critics, or oppress minorities. We do so because given the power of faith in our lives, and the passion that religious differences can inflame, the strongest weapon against hateful speech is not repression, it is more speech — the voices of tolerance that rally against bigotry and blasphemy, and lift up the values of understanding and mutual respect.”

    As Ezra Klein says, no one listens to the President. But it’s much worse when you say that he has done the opposite of what he has done. And it’s quite another to insinuate that the president envies the very thing he denounced.

  15. Those African school girls were abducted in the name of religion, weren’t they? BTW, if the victims are to be sold into slavery, why don’t Buffet and Gates, et. al., just buy them? They can afford it. Wouldn’t that solve the problem? Just buy them back.

  16. Buying them back would only encourage the kidnapping of more girls for profit.

    This same argument is often made about buying the slaves to stop slavery. It wouldn’t have worked for precisely the same reason.

  17. One nation the wrong-wing of America has not gotten to is the Vatican State.

    The Pope spoke a blasphemy that if the wrong-wing had its way, would be prosecuted for blasphemy:

    Pope Francis called Friday for governments to redistribute wealth to the poor in a new spirit of generosity to help curb the “economy of exclusion” that is taking hold today.

    Francis made the appeal during a speech to U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and the heads of major U.N. agencies who are meeting in Rome this week.

    Latin America’s first pope has frequently lashed out at the injustices of capitalism and the global economic system that excludes so much of humanity.

    On Friday, Francis called for the United Nations to promote a “worldwide ethical mobilization” of solidarity with the poor in a new spirit of generosity.

    He said a more equal form of economic progress can be had through “the legitimate redistribution of economic benefits by the state, as well as indispensable cooperation between the private sector and civil society.”

    (HP). I expect this view will be called a libertarian, socialist, blasphemous, or liberal viewpoint depending on the politics of the exclaimer.

    The Pope needs a lawyer now.

  18. SS,

    Just buy the girls back and we can debate whether it was right or wrong later. Just buy them back. Just get them back. The end justifies the means, in this case.

  19. If god were real wouldn’t she have made sure that all those who practice religion would practice the correct religion?

  20. Annie

    Ohhhh boy, Dredd, that’s not going to go over well with the wrong wing. :/
    ==========================
    Blasphemy is using the race card and being PC to some of those proclaiming themselves to be libertarian, yet:

    Racism is actually quite compatible with libertarian economics.

    Libertarian economics stresses individualism, even though these guys know that their moms changed their diapers and they had to get help all along the way growing up. Individualism is great, but I remember going to class reunions and seeing that once you got to the 20th reunion, there was a lot less individualism and a lot more humility. We all need people. We are not islands.

    Yet there is a theme historically that comes from Mises. For Mises, as I quoted in Ludwig Von Mises Implies Being a Savage Animal Is Ok!, the newborn child is born a savage. This is why libertarians only accept the legitimacy of voluntary relationships. This plays into the desire to repeal the civil rights act, so that you can kick out ethnic minorities from your restaurant without serving them.

    This plays into the desire of Rothbard to voluntarily separate from blacks in a nation and in public activity. You can see how this insidious morality breaks down society and good will.

    One can deduce that if the foundation of libertarianism is rotten, so is the elitist financial decay that seeks limited government to the extreme. It is a decay because it is based upon the desire to ignore the needs of the greater society.

    (Exposing the Racist History Of Libertarianism And Murray Rothbard). Hunker down Mr. Pope, you are not being civil.

  21. Dredd – you are aware that playing the race card only works with the home team. The away team is really not concerned because they know it is a lie.

  22. Schulte: “The away team is really not concerned because they know it is a lie.”

    What’s a lie? That racism exists? That it is demonstrated when people claim Obama didn’t write his book (just as they claimed Frederick Douglas didn’t write his)? When they claim Obama isn’t a Christian? When they claim he isn’t an American? When they hang nooses from trees? When they burn crosses on lawns? When they execute black men for crimes they didn’t commit? When they stop and search minorities more than they do whites?

    How about this guy, who called Obama “uppity”? Are you aware of the history of that word?

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/09/georgia-gop-congressman-calls.html

    “Social justice is justice for socialists.”

    No, it’s for society. All of us. To deny that racism exists today is so far from the truth that I’m surprised it isn’t considered uncivil under the terms of this blog.

  23. John
    SS,

    “Just buy the girls back and we can debate whether it was right or wrong later. Just buy them back. Just get them back. The end justifies the means, in this case.”

    I disagree. Again. Payment would encourage further kidnappings.

  24. Scott,

    Sometimes an administration is willing to ransom hostages. Reagan traded guns to Iran in hopes that some hostages would be released. Trouble ensued.

  25. Sure, that happens all the time, but as a matter of policy, they would not acknowledge it. It happened recently in Africa, in Syria, in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, in Sudan and Somalia, where countries, European and Asian, and perhaps even American ransomed hostages, but all, obviously denied it or refused to comment.
    Also, the US have swooped down to help, which gives us increased presence in the area that Africom and the affiliated covert agencies hadn’t, justifies it, and allows us the leisure of doing what we do best, show force and might and kill first, negotiate later.

  26. SS,

    Option 1 – Dollars

    Option 2 – Bullets

    It’s like Viet Nam. We should have shot dollar bills at the Viet Cong not bullets.

  27. Paul Schulte

    Dredd – you are aware that playing the race card only works with the home team. The away team is really not concerned because they know it is a lie.
    =======================
    PC is Pope Capitalism, a better form.

    Free of libertarian racism too.

  28. Annie

    Schulte, you callin’ the Pope a commie? Them’s fightin’ words for Catholics. Uh oh. o_O
    ================
    The PS is not being Popelly Correct.

  29. feynman wins the award for understatment today in regards to the arms given to the mullahs by Reagan:

    “Trouble ensued.”

    Glad I could help, po.

    “SS,

    Option 1 – Dollars

    Option 2 – Bullets”

    Option 3: neither.

    Pressuring the Nigerian government to do the right thing has, so far, resulted in more than I thought I would hear from them.

    I don’t care for war. But I do care for going after terrorists. I don’t always agree with how we do that, and I think the blowback we’ve gotten throughout history has proven that it’s a tough thing to do right, but in cases like this, I fully support sending in military people to work with the Nigerian government to try to bring these criminals to justice.

  30. Schulte, it’s really hard to take you seriously when you conveniently ignore my comments that prove that you’re wrong. In this case, in regards to racism, you are aware that Rep. Lynn Westmoreland, who will be on the BENGHAZI! (TM, GOP) committee, called Obama “uppity”?

  31. Supak – could you send us a link on that uppity thingie? And what does that have to do with Benghazi anyway?

  32. SS,

    Neither? THREE HUNDRED LITTLE GIRLS?

    Holy geez! I thought I was callous.

    The perp said they were for sale. Go buy ’em.

  33. But wait there’s more: Sunni-Shiite violence soars in Pakistan

    Tit-for-tat target killings between Sunnis and Shiites have escalated this past year, with Taliban forces repeatedly targeting Shiite processions and places of worship and Iran-backed Shiite groups retaliating.

    “With nuclear sanctions likely to be eased in Iran, and NATO forces withdrawing from Afghanistan, both Iran and Saudi Arabia will use their proxies to wrestle for influence over Pakistan,” said Habib Ahmad, who teaches economics in Multan. He was referring to the interim deal struck between Iran and six global powers, under which Tehran agreed to scale back uranium enrichment in return for sanctions relief.

  34. Paul, Attorneys in this country are afraid to take a stand against the Constitutional abuses of this Administration for fear of not getting invited to a cocktail party. And, never feel obligated to respond to a venomous troll, no matter how much they froth.

  35. Proof that Schulte doesn’t read the comments he replies to:

    “Supak – could you send us a link on that uppity thingie?”

    I already provided a link to it.

    And we were talking about racism. You suggested, as you have before, that it doesn’t exist. Or, at least, not in the Republican party.

  36. Scott S:

    I was obviously referring to aid and other support packages that we give to Pakistan, and other countries.

    The very argument for domestic energy development is to stop funding oil nations under Sharia law and/or support terrorists. I support the current boycott of the Beverly Hills Hotel, because its owner, the Sultan of Brunei, just imposed Sharia law. It includes a punishment for gays of death by stoning, as well as the punishment of rape victims for adultery.

    I want to get the US into a position where we do not have to buy anything from nations that support terrorism. That is a combination of domestic energy production, clean renewables, as well as partnering with more stable allies such as Canada. Unfortunately, the oil-rich Crimean Peninsula was just stolen from Ukraine by Russia, so that’s one less source.

  37. John
    “SS,

    Neither? THREE HUNDRED LITTLE GIRLS?

    Holy geez! I thought I was callous.”

    No money and no bullets. I suggest we try other things, like pressuring and helping the Nigerian government to bring those criminals to justice.

    If that involves bullets, then so be it. But the real callousness is not realizing that paying for them would just encourage them to kidnap more.

  38. Just because anyone who buys any product or service for which oil is a component of its manufacture or transportation technically buys products from countries that support terrorism and Sharia law does not mean that we should gift them with billions more dollars in support.

  39. John – yes, get them back by any means possible. It’s been so long, those poor girls. And what will happen to them, in Nigeria, as rape victims? I worry about those girls – what they are going through now and what they will face in the future. I hope we can help.

  40. Nick Spinelli: “Paul, Attorneys in this country are afraid to take a stand against the Constitutional abuses of this Administration for fear of not getting invited to a cocktail party.”

    Citation?

    I read all kinds of legal blogs that have all kinds of attorneys posting, left and right, challenging the constitutional abuses of this administration. This is generally true of all administrations’ abuses.

    This blog, by supposed leftist Turley, is one of them.

    I also read a lot of attorneys who realize that the Bush administration’s abuses were much more heinous.

    “And, never feel obligated to respond to a venomous troll, no matter how much they froth.”

    And yet I can’t stop responding to your blatant violations of the civility rule…

  41. If only Hillary had put these obvious terrorists on the international terrorist list this may not have happened. She was urged to by many people but for reasons known only to her, refused to do so. Maybe she should have “Stayed home and baked cookies.”

  42. It’s just come out that the IRS also audited those who donated to conservative 501c3s. The odds of an average American getting audited: 1%. The odds of a conservative donor to the Tea Party: 10%.

    So Obama might be a really excellent public speaker, very moving, but the track record of his administration is not so hot. The AP has labeled him the least transparent president in history.

  43. Scott – if we bought them back, with Navy Seals waiting in the bush, I’m pretty sure they could discourage further kidnappings. Because, you’re right, simply ransoming them off creates a hostage market. I just want them back.

  44. Scott S – Bill Ayers claims he wrote Obama’s book. Believing his claim, or not, has nothing to do with racist.

  45. Do you guys realize how many girls are kidnapped, sold into slavery, raped, mutilated, and forced into prostitution every year?

    If only we saw this kind of response for those millions of girls. Many of them right here in our country.

    Instead, we are laying off public sector workers who investigate, track down, arrest, try, and imprison those people.

    If people want to throw money at the problem of kidnapped girls sold into slavery, I suggest we start right here at home.

  46. Paul Schulte

    … that uppity thingie? And what does that have to do with Benghazi anyway?
    ====================
    After Ben’s thingy got uppity it required a lot of gauzi, because it got whacked by Senator Widestance.

    Ibn Gauzy is the Arab thriller novel Rep. Izza Gonna Shine is writing about it in crayon.

  47. Scott – and Joe Biden said Obama was, “”I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” Biden said. “I mean, that’s a storybook, man.”

    What’s your point? He showed what he really thought about African Americans, but he still has a job.

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/31/biden.obama/

  48. Karen S: “I was obviously referring to aid and other support packages that we give to Pakistan, and other countries.”

    I suppose you can show me a link to you complaining about this during the Bush administration, when we also gave billions to these countries?

    “I support the current boycott of the Beverly Hills Hotel”

    So do I, not that I could ever afford to stay there. I used to do shows there, and if I was still in the business, I would refuse a call to a show there.

    “I want to get the US into a position where we do not have to buy anything from nations that support terrorism”

    This is unrealistic. Oil is a worldwide fungible resource. There will always be Saudi Oil in the mix.

    “That is a combination of domestic energy production, clean renewables, as well as partnering with more stable allies such as Canada.”

    So, you voted for Obama because of his “all of the above” energy policy?

  49. Scott, if it’s an insult in the general and not specific to one commenter, it’s allowable. I just got it clarified.

  50. From Wikipedia “Blasphemy” …

    … Leviticus 24:13-16:

    Then the LORD said to Moses: “Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. Say to the Israelites: ‘If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him.”

    …Islam … Main article: Islam and blasphemy

    Blasphemy is not an Arabic term …

    The Judeo-Christian religion the U.S.eh? was founded on what meme?

  51. Scott – we have been giving aid to nations that do not share our views on human rights and religious freedoms for many years. Heck, very few nations do share our views. We are moved by the plight of the people, but unfortunately much of the funding ends up in the wrong hands.

    And this is the first blog I believe I have ever contributed to, so, sorry, no public comments posted from the Bush era.

    Obama’s “all of the above” energy policy is a joke. The only oil development increases have been in the private sector. He has blocked domestic development whenever he could. He’s also played venture capitalist, but not a very good one, with the solar panel industry, and waived fines that should be imposed on wind farms for killing birds.

    He is a truly excellent speaker. But it’s his track record I care about. If Bush pulled a fraction of the shenanigans that have gone on recently, IRS, NSA, drones targeting Americans, there would have been riots in the streets.

  52. “I could have stayed home and baked cookies” was a mocking, smug comment uttered by Princess Hillary during her husband’s campaign in 1992. It did provide a moment of truth of how she and her ilk look down upon women who choose to stay @ home and raise their children. She had to eat those words and obviously they were quite caloric, she has gained about 30lbs. since then. Actually, the Princess apparently loves pizza, even frozen. Those were the reports from her failed 2008 prez run.

  53. It’s rather predictable when Islamic extremists rape and murder, the apologists bring out the Old Testament, and Judeo-Christian norms from hundreds of years ago. Like it’s Christians who kidnapped 300 girls studying for a physics exam and sold them into slavery. They bring up the tired “Christians are the real enemies, or at least just as bad” with every bombing, kidnapping, beheading, stoning, genital mutilation, forced marriage, murder . . . and yet, they can’t compare the figures side by side.

    Let’s compare the statistics today, shall we? When the pedophile Yearning For Zion leader was arrested, I didn’t say, well, but other Christians are just as bad.

  54. Nick Spinelli
    “If only Hillary had put these obvious terrorists on the international terrorist list this may not have happened.”

    I provided a link that directly deals with this. You ignored it. It seems you’re not interested in the truth.

    http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/05/08/3435588/hillary-and-boko-haram/

    > Clinton didn’t act in a vacuum to determine not to designate Boko Haram back in 2011. Scholars on Twitter who focus on the region, terrorism broadly, and Islamist groups in particular were quick to point out that not only were there few benefits and many possible costs to designation, many of them had argued against listing Boko Haram several years ago. In a letter to the State Department dated May 2012, twenty prominent African studies scholars wrote Clinton to implore her to hold off on placing Boko Haram on the FTO list. Acknowledging the violence Boko Haram had perpetrated, the academics argued that “an FTO designation would internationalize Boko Haram, legitimize abuses by Nigeria’s security services, limit the State Department’s latitude in shaping a long term strategy, and undermine the U.S. Government’s ability to receive effective independent analysis from the region.”

    > The Nigerian government also wasn’t exactly clamoring for U.S. assistance against Boko Haram back in 2011. At the time, Jama’atu Ahlis Sunna Lidda’awati Wal-Jihad — the actual full name of the group commonly called Boko Haram — was a threat only within Nigeria. Assistant Secretary of State Johnnie Carson described the group in 2012 testimony to the Senate as “not monolithic or homogenous” and “composed of several groups that remain primarily focused on discrediting the Nigerian government.”

    Again, people who care about facts should go read the whole thing.

    “She was urged to by many people but for reasons known only to her, refused to do so.”

    Actually, had you read the story to which I linked, you’d see that many other people were urging her not to put them on the list.

    “Maybe she should have “Stayed home and baked cookies.””

    Your attacks on Ms Clinton sound so desperate… almost as if you’ve seen the polls and know she’ll be the next President.

  55. Karen, You’re making a mountain out of a mole hill. Just because a Tea Party group is 1000% more likely to be audited doesn’t mean a damn thing!! What are you, some kinda conspiracy nut?

  56. Jonathan is certainly earning those millions of dollars he makes off this thread, today!!

  57. As has been discussed here several times, Think Progress is a blatantly biased source. Now, people are certainly free to use it as I am equally free to laugh @ it. Gotta love this country.

  58. Supak – I am sure Hillary will be pleased with your defense, but she has a lot to answer for to the American people. I think the Benghazi hearing will do her some harm and then their is Monice, et al.

  59. Pakistan is one of our allies that has worked with the Obama Administration to create a new international blasphemy standard.” – JT

    The koran accepts the pentateuch as scripture, as does the new testament.

    So we have Judeo-Christian-Islamic scripture in agreement on blasphemy:

    Then the LORD said to Moses: “Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. Say to the Israelites: ‘If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him.”

    (Lev. 24:13-16). The

    If we get enough people to realize, as Homer Simpson does, that “DOH we all believe this already”, and stop fighting over oil, we could all be properly beheaded without all of this extremism.

  60. Islam – Christianity – Judaism are all People of the Book for Islam. Not sure if you are for or against this.

  61. For your reading enjoyment, the Chair of the House committee on the 1000th investigation into Benghazi speaks to Joe Scarborough and admits things you are not supposed to say in public…

    Asked by MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough about the possibility that his panel’s work would continue into the 2016 election campaign, Gowdy replied that “if an administration is slow-walking document production, I can’t end a trial simply because the defense won’t cooperate.”

    Note the word TRIAL

    Joe McCarthy would feel right at home.

  62. Typo in my last comment: Not “beheaded” … “stoned”.

    We could all stop losing our heads and become hippies from Colorado.

  63. The big problem with blasphemy punishment according to Jesus, is that the one to cast the first stone must be free of sin.

    Oops … back to Benghazi …

  64. Hillary’s problem with Monica is that she was responsible for the ‘bimbo eruptions’ during the Clinton campaigns and Clinton WH years. She is behind any smears on Monica. Hillary is the leader of the War on Women.

  65. Dredd – first of all, do you believe in Jesus? If you do, then continue on, if not, pick another topic.

  66. Nick,

    I thank you for your persistence. You have shown the way to the future with your quick and witty comments devoid of substance.

  67. “Where there is no law there is no sin.” -Rom. 4:15

    The libertarian conservative House T-baggers are seeking to free us from sin.

    Lawlessness will get rid of sin.

    Their Jesusness is just overwhelming.

    The only law that will remain is “THOU SHALT NOT BENGHAZI” … way cool … we will all be saved … Yippee Yahoo Google …

  68. Annie,

    “Gosh I’m beginning to have a flashback from my Pentecostal days.”

    I wish you well.

  69. Oh, Benghazi – where we had an ambassador in what was universally considered the hottest embassy where we have diplomatic relations, where there was violence every month, where SOS Clinton removed the US military guard and replaced it with Libyan personnel (because that has such a super track record.) And then she spent a bunch of money on electric cars in an embassy in Europe. And then she ignored repeated please from ambassador Stevens to replace the military guard. And then she waited for permission from Libya to rescue him when we had military close enough to help. And, when she had documented intel from the CIA, survivors, and the military that this was no protest – this was a well-planned terrorist attack on the anniversary of 9/11, the State Department altered the talking points, removing terrorism. And then she and Susan Rice spent the next few weeks blaming a free-speech video that dared to criticize Islam. This was documented to be a deliberate, known lie. And then she said, “Why does it even matter anyway what happened?” And then she kept trying not to testify. And then witnesses were told they were not permitted to be interviewed. What does it matter how long an investigation went on if it was stonewalled?

    That Benghazi? Watergate seems so tame nowadays. Bugging an opponents campaign office. Heck, it’s common place to plant moles nowadays. 4 people died from gross negligence that was covered up, and the President and SOS lied to the American people.

    I don’t like being lied to.

  70. That said, I agree with Charles Krauthammer that the object needs to be to discover the truth, not to make political speeches that will detract from the carnage of Obamacare.

  71. Annie

    You’re a rope? Huh? o_O
    ————-
    I’m hip or hep or hemp.
    =====================
    Annie

    Cheesus! Oops is that blasphemy?
    =====================
    Not in a Green Bay church.

  72. Karen S
    we have been giving aid to nations that do not share our views on human rights and religious freedoms for many years.”

    This is precisely why I asked for proof that you have complained about it before Obama.

    “Heck, very few nations do share our views. ”

    Whose views? My views are quite different than yours.

    “We are moved by the plight of the people, but unfortunately much of the funding ends up in the wrong hands.”

    Who is moved by the plight of the people? Who is “we?”

    “And this is the first blog I believe I have ever contributed to, so, sorry, no public comments posted from the Bush era.”

    OK, did you complain about Bush’s giving funds to terror nations to your friends? Anyone can vouch for this being a long trend of yours? Or is this just something that you discovered after the election of this President?

    “Obama’s “all of the above” energy policy is a joke.”

    Not to me it’s not. I don’t like fracking. I don’t want pipelines that carry oil. I don’t want deep water drilling. I don’t want drilling in the Arctic.

    I want to transition to renewables now. Musk’s gigafactory is going to put solar on grid parity quite soon, even without subsidies. We have no excuse.

    “The only oil development increases have been in the private sector. ”

    They have to get permits to drill. They got them.

    “He has blocked domestic development whenever he could. ”

    That’s not true.

    “He’s also played venture capitalist, but not a very good one, with the solar panel industry,”

    Actually, the fail rate is quite low compared to most venture capital endeavors, and AGAIN, Bush did this too. I’d like to see your complaints about Bush’s loan guarantees to get us off our “oil addiction” as he put it.

    “waived fines that should be imposed on wind farms for killing birds.”

    Do you know how many birds there are? Do you know how many birds house cats kill every year?

    ” But it’s his track record I care about. ”

    Me too. That’s why I voted for him instead of Romney. Lesser of evils. Willard had a whole bunch of Cheney’s boys on his foreign policy team. We’d be bombing Iran by now.

    “If Bush pulled a fraction of the shenanigans that have gone on recently”

    Bush pulled way more. Politicization of the DoJ comes to mind. Iraq comes to mind.

    Not that you care.

    “IRS”

    They targeted more progressive groups than conservative ones. And that’s their job.

    “NSA”

    Bush programs, continued. Again, I’d like to see your complaints about the very same programs being run under Bush.

    However, there is a progressive wing to the Democratic party that agrees that spying on Americans without warrants is wrong. In fact, that wing is growing. 70% of Democrats voted against renewing the Patriot Act. Only 14% of Republicans did. I await your switch to the progressive side over this issue…

    “drones targeting Americans”

    Now that’s a good one. However, I wonder how many Americans Bush droned, and his administration was so secretive that they just never told anyone about it?

    The real question for me is, how many Americans would Willard or John “bomb bomb bomb Iran” McCain would have droned. I’m convinced I voted for the lesser evil here, as well.

    “there would have been riots in the streets”

    There were many protests. I know. I was physically attacked by Bush supporters at several.

  73. Freedom of religion is a meaningless concept unless a people is committed to religious pluralism. And religious pluralism is impossible in a society which permits the prosecution of purely doctrinal offenses, which would include blasphemy, apostasy, heresy and similar categories of theological non-conformity. No criticism of or insult toward a system of religious (or political or social) belief can be justified as a reasonable restriction on freedom of speech because any such restriction narrows the range of ideas which may be publicly debated to those deemed acceptable by the dominant culture.

    Regardless of what the Constitution says, those are just words on a piece of paper. We can certainly denounce intolerance in Pakistan and elsewhere, but we ought to also remember that the religious battles raging in our own country are sufficient evidence that the survival of the freedoms of speech and religion is hardly a foregone conclusion.

  74. Dredd

    “After Ben’s thingy got uppity it required a lot of gauzi, because it got whacked by Senator Widestance.”

    Heh. I guess your humor was too much for Schulte to respond to, as he has now dropped this subject.

  75. Karen S:

    When Congress and the Justice Department decide to take on the war crimes that continue to morally disfigure this nation, I may then be able to control the urge to vomit when yet another self-righteous Congressman announces the formation of yet another committee to conduct yet another hearing on Benghazi.

  76. Karen: “and Joe Biden said Obama was ‘articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy'”

    You don’t see the difference between that and the word “uppity?” You do know what traditionally followed the word uppity, don’t you?

    You think that Joe Biden and Rep Lynn Westmoreland think the same thing about African Americans?

    Karen again:

    “I don’t like being lied to.”

    And yet I’m guessing you voted for Bush twice.

  77. I think I will cancel my subscription to the Weekly Standard. Nowadays, reading Prof. Turley’s blog is an adequate facsimile.

  78. With the plentiful and robust whines served throughout the day, I have some cheese suggestions. For the robust red served today, I suggest a sharp and pungent Fontinella. It is an acquired taste, either you love or hate. For the lighter reds, maybe a gouda. The white wines are always good w/ brie, although it’s not my favorite.

  79. Scott S:

    “I want to transition to renewables now.” That sounds like something my son would say. :) I want clean renewables “now”, too. In fact, I would like for all cars to be solar powered, and for solar panels to be free of toxic materials.

    It’s not about “wanting.” We are still in the beta test stage. Wind farms are EXTREMELY loud (we have them in our area), they chop up birds, and I cannot imagine that wild life’s activities are not altered by that annoying sound and chopping feeling in your ears. Solar farms roast birds, literally, the panels are often made of toxic materials like cadmium, and you may have noticed that a great many solar companies here in the US went bankrupt. There’s hydroelectric, but there are problems with the dams interfering with spawning. There’s geothermal, but that’s geographically limited, and they are often in areas with sleeping volcanoes.

    The technology is already far more advanced than 10 years ago. Remember when solar panels were used mainly for water heaters? We’re getting there. But as of now, we have not solved the problems stated above. We do not have the infrastructure yet. And it is extremely expensive. We do not want people having to choose between buying food and heating their house above freezing. People in cold climates die every year when their heat goes out, or they turn it off to save money and depend on fires and blankets.

    Yes, we all want perfectly clean, green, renewable energy independence. It will be a moving moment when we achieve it, and I can’t wait.

    But, unless you want to walk everywhere, grow your own food with seeds you foraged yourself (so they don’t have to be shipped to you), raise sheep, shear them, card the wool, spin it into yarn/thread and then knit or weave your own clothes (unless you want to go the flax/linen route) then what exactly do you propose we do to “transition to renewables now?” You can’t just hope that “something would work out.”

    Were you around for the OPEC oil embargo in the 70’s with the loooooooong lines and unaffordable gas?

    It would be the same if Thomas Edison invented the light bulb prototype, and then decreed that all other sources of light would be extinguished that night. Forget producing a manufacturing method, wiring communities, creating utilities . . . something would just work out and until then, we would all just sit in the dark.

  80. Scott – let’s see, there were the Nixon tapes which he tried to use executive privilege to refuse to hand over (just like Obama uses to prevent handing over emails discussing how to handle the Benghazi scandal), Nixon lied to the American people (so familiar today). Obama and Clinton can go head to head with Nixon, but people actually died in Benghazi.

    I’ll bet that matters a lot to their families. And Clinton stood next to their coffins and blamed a video, when she knew that was a lie; it was her negligence that put them there.

  81. Scott:

    Joe Biden made a statement that showed that he was surprised, and thought it was historic, that the African American community could produce someone who was intelligent, neat, and articulate, and you think that’s fine because he did not use the “N” word? He thinks less of African Americans than he does of Caucasians. It was an undisguisedly racist comment. But the Democratic Double Standard allowed it to slide by with little comment.

  82. Mike A. said:

    “When Congress and the Justice Department decide to take on the war crimes that continue to morally disfigure this nation, I may then be able to control the urge to vomit when yet another self-righteous Congressman announces the formation of yet another committee to conduct yet another hearing on Benghazi.”

    Yay!!

    We spend more on war than anyone — then begrudge the crumbs tossed at failing infrastructure, education, health, etc.

    We’ve been at war with one of the poorest countries on earth for twelve years now.

    What does that really say about us as a nation?

  83. Scott Supak (@ssupak)

    Dredd

    “After Ben’s thingy got uppity it required a lot of gauzi, because it got whacked by Senator Widestance.”

    Heh. I guess your humor was too much for Schulte to respond to, as he has now dropped this subject.
    ===========================
    It was the “Ben’s thingy got uppity” that stuttered him.

  84. Well, we did win the War on Poverty LBJ declared. Just ask all the black voters, defeated and living in war torn inner city neighborhoods.

  85. Simply amazing the lengths these savages will go to to protect the name of the false prophet…. the pedophile Muhammed.

  86. With no help, just hindrance from libertarian conservatives, “we” is lying on the editing room floor, “wee” is more like it … hindrance cut “we” into separate “wee” parts … symbolic racism suffers, and their suffering victims … and “we who see it.”

  87. Nick’s right. The inner cities need our help. Let’s expand Head Start and Medicaid – SNAP and unemployment. Let’s build more green space and playgrounds. Let’s build new schools and homeless shelters.

    Ooops. Lost my head there.

    Sorry.

  88. Black voters aren’t the only ones who are still fighting the war on poverty. Poor people are more than aware of who will keep them in poverty on minimum wages. They know who would deny them food assistance, they know who would deny them unemployment, health care, they know who wants to limit their numbers at the polls on election day, they know who would make back alley abortions no longer a thing of the past. Oh yes, they know who to vote for and it won’t be Republicans.

  89. “Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him to fish and feed him for a lifetime.”

  90. You said you want to not buy stuff from terror countries. I told you it wasn’t realistic. Then I told you what I want. You called me a child.

    But you go on!

    “chop up birds”

    I asked you if you knew how many birds are killed by cats every year? You ignored me.

    “Solar farms roast birds”

    I had this debate recently. I’ll give you a hint, the person taking your side gave up. Show my HOW MANY birds are roasted by solar plants. I’ll give you another hint. It’s not many.

    Now, I’ll ask again: do you know how many birds are killed by cats every year? How about buildings?

    “panels are often made of toxic materials like cadmium”

    Computers are made from lots of toxic materials too. We sure transition quickly.

    “great many solar companies here in the US went bankrupt”

    A great many more didn’t.

    You then proceed to tell me things I already know, but thanks for the condescension.

    “we have not solved the problems stated above”

    You mean all those problems that I just answered? Why do I feel you will ignore those points again.

    “Yes, we all want perfectly clean, green, renewable energy independence.”

    You sound like a child.

    “unless you want to walk everywhere”

    My next car will be a Tesla. Most of my electricity comes from Niagra.

    “grow your own food with seeds you foraged yourself”

    I already do a lot of this.

    “so they don’t have to be shipped to you”

    They can be shipped efficiently.

    “raise sheep, shear them, card the wool, spin it into yarn/thread and then knit or weave your own clothes”

    My neighbors do that. We buy some of their stuff.

    “what exactly do you propose we do to “transition to renewables now?”

    Do you know what transition means? I propose we do that. Now. Start the transition. In fact, we already have. About 99% of all new electric capacity is from renewables these days.

    “You can’t just hope that “something would work out.””

    I don’t. I vote for people that will make it happen faster. You don’t.

    “Were you around for the OPEC oil embargo in the 70′s”

    Yes, and?

    “It would be the same if Thomas Edison invented the light bulb prototype, and then decreed that all other sources of light would be extinguished that night. ”

    No it wouldn’t.

    “Obama and Clinton can go head to head with Nixon”

    No they can’t. The fact that you would say that shows not only how partisan you are, but how ignorant you are of what went on in the Nixon White House.

    “people actually died in Benghazi”

    4 people. Do you know how many people died because of Dick Nixon’s policies? Illegal bombing of Cambodia. Coup in Argentina. I could go on all day, but you wouldn’t care.

    “Joe Biden made a statement that showed that he was surprised”

    He did not show surprise. He was simply stating what he saw as a fact. But let me get this straight… Your argument is that it’s OK to call Obama uppity because Biden said something that wasn’t as bad?

    I’ll ask again: do you know what word usually followed uppity?

    “you think that’s fine because he did not use the “N” word?”

    Where did I say it was fine? Honestly, the propensity to put words in people’s mouths is quite strong with conservatives these days. It’s downright uncivil.

    “He thinks less of African Americans than he does of Caucasians.”

    I don’t think so. We all make stupid statements. As Dredd has shown, we all have some racism. We all must deal with it. The best way to deal with it is to move forward. Calling a black person “uppity” is moving backwards.

    “It was an undisguisedly [sic] racist comment.”

    No it wasn’t. But even if it was, do you think there are degrees of racism? Do you think what Joe said is AS BAD as calling Obama “uppity?” If so, then I’m done with you.

    “But the Democratic Double Standard allowed it to slide by with little comment.”

    No it didn’t. A great many progressives were and are bothered by it. Including me. It’s one of the many reasons I would never vote for Biden for President.

  91. MonaLeeza

    Black voters aren’t the only ones who are still fighting the war on poverty. Poor people are more than aware of who will keep them in poverty on minimum wages. They know who would deny them food assistance, they know who would deny them unemployment, health care, they know who wants to limit their numbers at the polls on election day, they know who would make back alley abortions no longer a thing of the past. Oh yes, they know who to vote for and it won’t be Republicans.
    =========================
    So … Mona … they might ask you … “which part is the blasphemy-philosophy, blasphemy-law, or blasphemy-civics reference to JT’s post?” … if so … just answer: “that the Pope is enlightening capitalists is not blasphemy doods” …

  92. The great Mike Royko wrote back in the 1960’s when Daley was building swimming pools by the dozens on the south and west sides of Chicago, “You might think he is trying to drown most of the black folk in town.”

  93. Platitudes are inaulting and demeaning. They are a way of escaping the realities of poor families with insincere words. Those who are ensconced in their safe neighborhoods, far removed from the inner cities haven’t got a clue.

  94. The Pope doesn’t just recite platitudes. They will turn on him in time for blaspheming against the God of Money and Greed.

  95. Karen S.,

    Regarding your remark concerning Biden’s “faux pas” in referring to Obama as a neat, well-spoken black man, it was the political equivalent of a defense lawyer asking his client on the stand, sometimes accusingly, if he committed the crime for which he’s being tried. It’s a preemptive way of confronting the charge and managing the message.

    In Biden’s case, preemptively pointing to the elephant in the room drained much of the power away from the question of Obama’s race. Reaction to Biden’s comment was predictably negative, but it was nothing he couldn’t deal with. However, it did set a tone throughout the campaign where nobody wanted to appear to be making race an issue.

    It was no coincidence that he was picked to be Vice-President. Everyone mocks his outspokeness, but he’s as shrewd a politician as there’s ever been.

  96. Dredd
    One nation the wrong-wing of America has not gotten to is the Vatican State.
    = = =
    They’re here…

  97. Paul Schulte
    Dredd – you are aware that playing the race card only works with the home team. The away team is really not concerned because they know it is a lie.
    = = =
    If one is a Clippers owner, this statement would be correct… Just sayin’.

  98. Karen S.
    I grew up in Spokane Wa. along the Spokane River on the north end of town. The house had six plate glass windows that were approx. 4X4. All in one span across the back of the house which overlooked the city from the bluff over the State Park campgrounds below. Every year, at least four to five birds would go thump, into one of those windows. Amazingly enough I was home and saw it happen and even more amazing was the fact that when an eagle hit one of the windows, the window didn’t shatter. Instead, the eagle bounced off of the window and landed about three feet behind on the ground. It was dazed and flopped around a bit, trying to get it’s footing before it took off. I was left shaking. Dazed and amazed!

    Most commonly, it was smaller birds that would be found dead, usually in the lower window wells of the basement or in the bushes that filled the gaps between the wells across the back basement. Starlings, if I remember well.

    World’s Top Serial Bird Killers Put Infamous Windmills to Shame
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-21/beware-the-blades-of-death-world-s-top-serial-bird-killers-.html

  99. I’ll raise you on Brickhouse. I knew him but Bill Veeck bounced me on his wooden leg!

    Swear to god! Jim Gallagher, GM of the Cubs, was my daughter’s godfather..

  100. So sad, when there are many other ways to settle disputes. Mohammad would not be at all pleased the way it is be carried out today.

  101. Mr. Keebler:

    Are you serious? One of the reasons Muslims act this way is because of their religion and its teachings. Not all do but enough so that there is chaos in the Islamic world.

    They rejected reason in favor of faith a thousand years ago; the outcome is not unexpected.

  102. Was wondering how long it would take before the denigration of Mohamed and Muslims starts in full earnest. Ding ding ding ding, Mr Keebler and Byron it is.

  103. Po, I was not degenerating Mohammad. I said he would not be pleased the way it’s carried out today. See in that what you wish.

  104. Nick,

    “With the plentiful and robust whines served throughout the day, I have some cheese suggestions. For the robust red served today, I suggest a sharp and pungent Fontinella. It is an acquired taste, either you love or hate. For the lighter reds, maybe a gouda. The white wines are always good w/ brie, although it’s not my favorite.”

    Gosh, you bring so much to the table!

  105. Mike A. said:

    “Freedom of religion is a meaningless concept unless a people is committed to religious pluralism.”

    There it is, as plain as a sunrise.

  106. I stand corrected, Mr Keebler. Usually whenever that name is pulled on these pages, it is solely to be disrespected. Agree with you, he would certainly not be happy.
    Whenever I am in the same room as Nick, I am on edge knowing he is about to do his thing, and everyone here knows what Nick’s thing is.
    And Nick, why would you assume that denigrating Christianity would be fine with me? Have you yet heard me indulge in such behavior?
    I take offense when anyone is disrespected, especially anyone who means a lot to others. i could go on ad nauseum about the value of Jesus to Muslims and the respect we show him, but I know you would only make it mean what you wish.
    And just to clarify, one is not a Muslim unless one believes in all previous prophets. There!

  107. I disdain all religions. I chose not to denigrate them. Why bother. Went in dumb, come out dumb too. When humans violate laws of decency they need to be reined in and sometimes killed. These child thieves in Nigeria need to be killed. The world is just a series of ant farms. The religions keep the various anthills separated from one another and it is impossible for an ant of one persuasion to live with ants of another. In a hundred years the religion thing may die down.

  108. Byron,

    “They rejected reason in favor of faith a thousand years ago; the outcome is not unexpected.”

    Unlike others elsewhere in the world, huh?

    Many reject reason now, and the outcome of this will not be unexpected.

    Nick,

    “Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach him to fish and feed him for a lifetime.”

    You must be confused; this is not Sunday School. Can you offer something of substance?

  109. Paul,

    “Islam – Christianity – Judaism are all People of the Book for Islam.”

    That statement explains everything. Everything. World history in eleven words.

    Very impressive.

  110. Nickodomus,

    “The great Mike Royko wrote back in the 1960′s when Daley was building swimming pools by the dozens on the south and west sides of Chicago, “You might think he is trying to drown most of the black folk in town.”

    Still hanging on to the 60’s? Times have changed.

    But hey, suit yourself.

  111. Nick’s right. The inner cities need our help. Let’s expand Head Start and Medicaid – SNAP and unemployment. Let’s build more green space and playgrounds. Let’s build new schools and homeless shelters.
    ===================
    There is no end of problems there. Yes you did lose your head.

  112. Dredd – If it will get you off this mantra, I will agree that you suffer from symbolic racism. However, I will not agree that anyone else does or that it even actually exists.

  113. Mike A – War crimes by American forces are first tried by military courts, the Congress and DOJ really have nothing to do with that. And, if you follow the news, some ‘war crimes’ have been tried by the military.

  114. Supak – you make a broad, unsupported statement about Watergate and then denigrate Karen. Back up the statement on Watergate.

  115. Supak – want to back up your statement on the IRS that you made to Karen. Actually, would you like to back the entire thing up? You make a lot of blanket statements and we are supposed to accept them since you said them. I for one would like more proof.

  116. Dredd – you can hope that the Libtards try to rescue Hillary and the WH from the coming disaster, but with good luck that is not going to happen.

  117. Another day on the Turley blog with folks issuing commands to others, demanding “proof” and links. These same folks often fail to substantiate their own claims.

  118. Paul Schulte said, “You can hope that the Libtards try to rescue Hillary and the WH from the coming disaster, but with good luck that is not going to happen.

    “Libtards”. Now that’s constructive. And civil, too.

  119. anon and anonymoose – one, I am going to use Libtards as long as people on this blog use T-baggers or Tea-baggers. Two, the doors are always open at Bedlam.

  120. Repeating:

    Paul Schulte said, “You can hope that the Libtards try to rescue Hillary and the WH from the coming disaster, but with good luck that is not going to happen.

    “Libtards”. Now that’s constructive. And civil, too.

  121. Paul, look up Non -Trinitarians. These are Christian churches who don’t believe Jesus was God. Get educated before spouting off.

  122. I ‘ll leave it to the Christians to ascertain Jesus’ status as god. In my case, he was sent by God with a message, which makes him a prophet. So calling him a prophet is not wrong.

  123. Jill45 – When Mohammed created Islam were the Non-Trinitarians around? Since the divinity of Jesus is a central tenant of Christianity, I find it hard to accept any church that does not accept the divinity of Jesus as Christian.

  124. Paul,
    Well that would make you appear to be discriminating against other Christian churches. Your particular brand of Christianity isn’t the gold standard.

  125. Jill45 – I am agnostic. However, the basic tenant of Christianity is a belief that Jesus is God. If you believe he is a prophet, Islam is a good religion to join. If you don’t believe he existed, there are many.

    You can put a handle on a printing press but that does not make it portable. Just because someone calls themselves Christian, does not mean they really are.

  126. Paul Schulte

    … If you believe he is a prophet, Islam is a good religion to join …
    ====================
    The lawyer who the fundies assassinated would defend your right to your religion or no religion.

    According to the text of Matt 24, it is prophetic so Jesus was indeed a prophet:

    For there will be trouble then worse than there has ever been from the beginning of the world until now, and there will be nothing like it again! Indeed, if the length of this time had not been limited, no one would survive; but for the sake of those who have been chosen, its length will be limited.”

    (Message of Science & Religion – Western – 2, quoting CJB version). If some people want to be Christian and believe Jesus was only a prophet, who are you to tell them to join Islam not Christianity?

    The lawyer who lost his life, the one this post is about, would have defended their right to their beliefs.

  127. Paul Schulte

    Dredd – it appears that one of the groups believes Jesus is/was God.
    ===================
    Yes, I would venture to guess that most Christian groups do.

  128. Dredd – it is my contention that ALL Christian groups, by definition must belief Jesus is/was God.

  129. Jehovah’s Witnesses say this “So we do not worship Jesus, as we do not believe that he is Almighty God.”

    Rashid Rehman would have defended their right to their religion anyway.

  130. “Jehovah’s Witnesses—Who Are We?

    We come from hundreds of ethnic and language backgrounds, yet we are united by common goals. Above all, we want to honor Jehovah, the God of the Bible and the Creator of all things. We do our best to imitate Jesus Christ and are proud to be called Christians.” –JW website

  131. Paul Schulte

    Jill45 – I am agnostic. However, the basic tenant of Christianity is a belief that Jesus is God. If you believe he is a prophet, Islam is a good religion to join. If you don’t believe he existed, there are many.

    You can put a handle on a printing press but that does not make it portable. Just because someone calls themselves Christian, does not mean they really are.
    ———————–
    Dredd – it is my contention that ALL Christian groups, by definition must belief Jesus is/was God.
    =======================
    An agnostic (“a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable” – Dictionary) who sounds a bit Rummy: “[A]s we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don’t know we don’t know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.”

  132. In my faith, we basically keep to ourselves and don’t push ourselves on others. It’s one of the reasons I cherish it.

  133. Dredd – there are two form of agnosticism. 1) you don’t believe in the existence of God, but you don’t disbelieve either 2) you believe in the existence of God, but that God takes no active part in the world. I belong to group 2.

  134. “(T)he basic tenant of Christianity is a belief that Jesus is God. If you believe he is a prophet, Islam is a good religion to join. If you don’t believe he existed, there are many.”

    Difficult as this may be, I have to agree with Paul Schulte 100% on this one. To be a Christian, one must believe that Jesus was Christ, son of God. There’s no getting around it. The root word of Christianity is Christ, for cryin’ out loud.

    Jehovah’s Witnesses, who apparently believe the way to heaven requires thoroughly annoying the rest of humanity, would fall under the umbrella of Abrahamic religions that include Judaism, Islamic, and Christian religions, none of whom want to bothered by JW’s. So, stop knocking on our doors. Please.

    BTW, Paul, it’s customary to cut and paste any statements you reference in a comment. It’s not a cut and dried requirement but it helps the rest of us follow the conversation. I say this because you take Supak to task for statements he made concerning Watergate and the IRS, and many of us, some of us…well, me, have difficulty evaluating the competing claims. What, precisely, are you taking issue with?

  135. RTC – you would have to specifically point out each issue that you are having. I usually have a conversation with one person at a time and my response is to that person, I am not concerned with keeping everyone in the loop, so to speak just to them. One of Supak problems is that much of his stuff got disappeared and I am not sure if it is stuff I referred to or not. This could cause some confusion for outsiders.

  136. Paul Schulte, your second definition of agnosticism actually describes deism; “Classical deism held that … God created the world and set it in motion but does not actively intervene in individual human affairs.”
    Thomas Henry Huxley, who coined the term “agnostic” (from the prefix “a-” meaning “not” and “gnosis” or “knowledge”), meant by it that the existence / nature of any deity/lies is unknown and probably unknowable.

  137. As you wish, Paul. Like I said, it’s not a hard and fast rule, merely a custom.

    I’m sure you realize that the conversations in this forum are hardly private; it’s a form of social interaction. Conversations depend on rules of etiquette that go beyond civility in order to achieve effective communication. Even in a one-on one conversation, specificity, without necessarily using cut-n-paste quotes, assists the other person, in this case Supak, in understanding exactly what you’re taking exception to in his comments. It also shows consideration for those who follow the threads by allowing them to evaluate the merits of the various claims and objections. Specificity might also show how seriously one would like their comment to be taken.

    I would note for the record that you, yourself, were interposing in a conversation by calling into question comments Supak made to Karen. To illustrate what I mean by etiquette in contrast to your practice, Supak could remain civil while telling you to butt out without giving you the answers you desire.

    As it is, he might very well ask what you don’t accept, specifically, about his comments to Karen.

    Most people realize that posting comments here invites responses from other participants; it’s that interplay that creates an interesting discussion. Many times, people will respect an interchange between two commenters while following along with interest. However, if you would prefer that I and, lo, the many other readers here pay your comments no heed unless we’re directly addressed, I suppose we could accommodate.

    Sorry for expressing an interest in your opinion. I’ll try not to let it happen again.

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