An explosive new book will disclose a Red Cross report that found that the Bush Administration committed clear acts of torture and that Bush Administration officials could be charged with war crimes. The book The book, “The Dark Side: The Inside Story of How the War on Terror Turned Into a War on American Ideals,” by New Yorker writer Jane Mayer, gives details of the confidential report. I will be discussing its implications on MSNBC’s Countdown tonight. For the video, click here.
The Red Cross has not denied the report but stated that such communications must remain confidential. The book gives details of shocking acts of torture, including hanging individuals from the ceiling and confining men into small boxes for prolonged periods.
The disclosure only adds to the anger over the refusal of the democratic leadership to allow an investigation into war crimes by the Administration. While various surrogates for the White House have tried to deny that waterboarding is torture, the most respected international body in this area found the answer both obvious and easy: the Administration conducted an official torture program in violation of international law.
For the full story, click here.
rafflaw:
I tend to agree but with reservations. I realize the first duty of any politician is to be elected and I think that explains his overtures to the right-wing and moderate voters. However I view the world like Churchill and believe that the “farther backward you can look, the farther forward you can see.” Obama is a Constitutional lawyer first and foremost. Like our host he understands the delicate balancing act that undergirds our tripartite government, and he undoubtedly knows that one leg has gotten progressively longer under this mobster rule we have now thus causing the tipping point where we now find ourselves. Second, as a lawyer and a member of a racial minority he does have a sense of justice and proportion, and despite the rhetoric, I believe that trait will win out the day. I know that Nixon was a lawyer too, as was Erhlichman and Dean, but I believe Obama cut from a different cloth and less interested in power acquisition tnan in changing things for the better. We shall see.
Jill,
I do believe that Obama will bring justice and the rule of law back into play. The FISA vote was discouraging. I was part of the Obama supporters group on his website that was “encouraging” him to vote against it. However, even Sen. Feingold has stated that he believes that Obama will correct the FISA issue and will stand up for the Constitution. I trust Feingold because he has never wavered on his principles, no matter who else is on his side.
Obama was probably advised to avoid the FISA mess so the Republicans would have one less hammer to use during the election cycle. I don’t agree with that advice(if that is what happened)and I sent many emails and made several calls to drive that point home. The important thing is that just about anyone is better than McCain who has sold his soul to the devil(and the religious right) to try to get elected. I think it is important that people like us need to remind Obama when he does win in November that FISA needs to get corrected soon. I know I will be one small thorn in his side on that issue and the torture issue, as well.
I am also confident that Obama will make sure the Justice Department is de-politicized and that the Civil Rights Division is returned to its proper role in the Justice Department.
There are so many issues that need to be changed and they won’t be changed under McCain. Sen. Obama will be the catalyst for those changes. Although I am sure that he, like any political figure, will need to be reminded, from time to time, who elected him into office.
I have no problem with 3rd party candidates, and I have voted for one in a past election,(John Anderson quite a few years ago) but they only act as spoilers to one of the major candidates chances of winning. If you truly believe McCain is not the answer, a vote for Obama is the only way to prevent four more years of Republican tyranny.
I hope this helps. Good luck with your decision.
“when Obama defeats McCain, we can finally get some justice.”
rafflaw,
I would like to have a real conversation about Obama with you as I trust your opinion and judgement. I don’t think Obama will bring justice and the rule of law back to this nation. I think he made that clear in his vote for the FISA law.
When he voted for that law he not only granted Cheney and Bush unprecednted powers, he potentially authorized them for himself. I think that was a very clear statment on his position on the rule of law.
I am very worried about this election. John McCain’s positions on just about everything are truly appalling and I will never vote for him. But does this mean my only choice is Obama? The green party has, or will soon have, a candidate. Their party is clear on the war, clear on FISA, clear on poverty, etc. I know that voting for a third party is a real risk and certainly the green party can be quite obnoxious in their progressive purity–ugg–personal experience with that!!! But we voted in a bunch of Democrates in 06 to bring the rule of law back to this nation and they have caved over and over again. I don’t feel I should vote for those Democrates that have helped shred our Constitution. They believe we have no where else to go but that’s not really accurate.
I truly would like your thoughts on this.
Thank you,
Jill
Susan and rafflaw:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#25645998
“hahahahahahhahahhhhhhhhhhhhahahaahahahahaahhah,,world court…lahahahahahaaahahahahahhaheeheeehahchahaeehhheeeeeeeeehha”
Nifty onomatopoeia.
And remember, if you get tired of typing, you can always replace all of your posts, bereft of content, with the comment “INSERT WHITE NOISE HERE.”
I will have to try to see if MSNBC has the video on its website. I always learn something when I listen to Prof. Turley on the TV or on the radio.
Rafflaw:
I hadn’t thought of as many as 4,000, but I like your number much better. I’m still disappointed that I didn’t get to see our host’s discussion on COUNTDOWN tonight. I missed the 8pm view, and thought it was going to air again at 10pm. My mistake, since MSNBC was showing something entirely different. Oh well, I’ll survive. 🙂
Susan,
I can think of over 4,000 crimes this regime is responsible for. Not to mention the hundred of thousands of Iraq citizens killed by George W. Bush. Add the torture on top of that and maybe Bush will be the first U.S. former president to be brought to the bar of International Justice. And then we can bring him up on U.S. charges. That would be a day of reckoning. After January 20th, 2009, when Obama defeats McCain, we can finally get some justice. Once that happens, Russ and his twin brother/sister Niblet, can see how a country of laws actually is supposed to work.
Rafflaw wrote:
Jill,
The torture issue is my personal hot button. I just can’t fathom how George W. has gotten away with torturing under our name. Hopefully, this book will help get the facts out about this lawless regime.
***************************
Torture and gulags are my personal hot buttons too, the two TOP ones. I’m sure we could easily come up with a list of Top 10 crimes this administration is directly responsible for.
ohhhh ohhhhhhh: poor bawack:
http://www.judicialwatch.org/
Judicial Watch Files Senate, FEC Complaints against Barack Obama over Questionable Mortgage Loan
Northern Trust Allegedly Provided Obama Special Discounts on “Super Super Jumbo” Home Loan
Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption, announced today that it has filed separate complaints with the Federal Election Commission (FEC) and the U.S. Senate Ethics Committee against Senator Barack Obama for allegedly accepting a below-market rate mortgage loan in 2005 not available to the general consumer.
Newsweek Poll: Obama drops like a rock
posted at 6:53 pm on July 11, 2008
Newsweek’s poll surprised many by showing a huge gap between Barack Obama and John McCain, with the Democratic nominee-apparent enjoying a 15-point lead over the Republican.
One month later, Obama has lost all of the momentum and has dropped into a virtual tie with McCain. The latest Newsweek poll shows Obama up 44-41, within the margin of error:
A month after emerging victorious from the bruising Democratic nominating contest, some of Barack Obama’s glow may be fading. In the latest NEWSWEEK Poll, the Illinois senator leads Republican nominee John McCain by just 3 percentage points, 44 percent to 41 percent. The statistical dead heat is a marked change from last month’s NEWSWEEK Poll, where Obama led McCain by 15 points, 51 percent to 36 percent.
Obama’s rapid drop comes at a strategically challenging moment for the Democratic candidate. Having vanquished Hillary Clinton in early June, Obama quickly went about repositioning himself for a general-election audience–an unpleasant task for any nominee emerging from the pander-heavy primary contests and particularly for a candidate who’d slogged through a vigorous primary challenge in most every contest from January until June. Obama’s reversal on FISA legislation, his support of faith-based initiatives and his decision to opt out of the campaign public-financing system left him open to charges he was a flip-flopper. In the new poll, 53 percent of voters (and 50 percent of former Hillary Clinton supporters) believe that Obama has changed his position on key issues in order to gain political advantage.
More seriously, some Obama supporters worry that the spectacle of their candidate eagerly embracing his old rival, Hillary Clinton, and traveling the country courting big donors at lavish fund-raisers, may have done lasting damage to his image as an arbiter of a new kind of politics. This is a major concern since Obama’s outsider credentials, have, in the past, played a large part in his appeal to moderate, swing voters. In the new poll, McCain leads Obama among independents 41 percent to 34 percent, with 25 percent favoring neither candidate. In June’s NEWSWEEK Poll, Obama bested McCain among independent voters, 48 percent to 36 percent.
There is a definite momentum away from Obama, especially within the independents. June’s poll, taken only three weeks ago, had Obama ahead by 12 points, 48-36. Obama has lost a whopping 14 points among independents and now trails McCain, 34-41. “Undecided/Other” rose among independents from 16% in June to 25% in July, which likely shows flirtation with third-party candidates such as Ralph Nader and Bob Barr — but some went to McCain as well.
LOL! ya try them in the famous WORLD COURT! What a rip roaring joke and now you 1 percenters really think it COULD happen. Let’s see now; the WORLD COURT has not brought a single third world murderous dictator to justice but BY GOD the WORLD COURT is going to put a UNITED STATES PRESIDENT in JAIL for freeing countries from tyranny!
Ya, that will get you all a lot of votes in the next election. GO FER IT! LOL!
I can’t stop laughing..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! world COURT! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hahahahahahhahahhhhhhhhhhhhahahaahahahahaahhah,,world court…lahahahahahaaahahahahahhaheeheeehahchahaeehhheeeeeeeeehhaww!
LOL! ya try them in the famous WORLD COURT! What a rip roaring joke and now you 1 percenters really think it COULD happen. Let’s see now; the WORLD COURT has not brought a single third world murderous dictator to justice but BY GOD the WORLD COURT is going to put a UNITED STATES PRESIDENT in JAIL for freeing countries from tyranny!
Ya, that will get you all a lot of votes in the next election. GO FER IT! LOL!
I can’t stop laughing..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! world COURT! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hahahahahahhahahhhhhhhhhhhhahahaahahahahaahhah,,world court…lahahahahahaaahahahahahhaheeheeehahchahaeehhheeeeeeeeehhaww!
LOL! ya try them in the famous WORLD COURT! What a rip roaring joke and now you 1 percenters really think it COULD happen. Let’s see now; the WORLD COURT has not brought a single third world murderous dictator to justice but BY GOD the WORLD COURT is going to put a UNITED STATES PRESIDENT in JAIL for freeing countries from tyranny!
Ya, that will get you all a lot of votes in the next election. GO FER IT! LOL!
I can’t stop laughing..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! world COURT! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hahahahahahhahahhhhhhhhhhhhahahaahahahahaahhah,,world court…lahahahahahaaahahahahahhaheeheeehahchahaeehhheeeeeeeeehhaww!
Jill,
The torture issue is my personal hot button. I just can’t fathom how George W. has gotten away with torturing under our name. Hopefully, this book will help get the facts out about this lawless regime.
Rich,
My understanding is it’s the international RC.
Rafflaw,
I am with you!
I DO NOT CONSENT TO MY GOVERNMENT ENGAGING IN TORTURE.
Jill
Mespo,
I am not sold on the claim that Rove is out of the country. I think he is hiding out in the White House or the Texas White House under the protection of the Secret Service. At least that is the rumor that I am starting to today!
Which Red Cross–the international one or the US one that keeps getting mismanaged by Republicans
That glug, glug, glug sound you hear is the Administration sinking in its own sea of crimes. No wonder Karl is out of the Country. He may be safer there once this report hits the papers here.
Jill,
I am all in favor of any step that can bring this torture issue into the mainstream media. This felonious Bush Regime has turned my country into a country that has Gulags. I grew up during the era when the Cold War was heating up and we heard stories all the time about the atrocities carried out by the Soviet Union and the KGB and now my country has been turned into a rogue nation. George W. Bush and Dick Cheney and Condi Rice, to name just a few, should be brought up on U.S. charges after January 20, 2009 and brought up on War Crimes on the International level. If the Europeans can bring up Pinochet on charges years after he was in power, George W. should be brought charged the day after he leaves office.
Earlier this year? I heard one group was planning to ask people to take a day off of work in PEACEFUL protest that this government does not have the consent of the governed. I think this is an excellent idea and maybe its something many groups/people would be willing to do.