Israel’s six most prestigious universities are fighting a limitation imposed by the military that would make them justify the acceptance of more than 70 Palestinian students as students. There is also a bar on these students taking certain courses. The restrictions raise core academic freedom — as well as raw discrimination — questions. Academics at Tel Aviv, Hebrew, Ben-Gurion and Haifa universities along with the Weizmann Institute and the Technion are launching a public campaign against the regulations. Israeli academics are concerned that the latest controversy could expand the current boycott of Israeli universities in the West.
In a letter, academics at the schools note that “Since its establishment, the State of Israel has carefully maintained a tradition of academic freedom… We expect the military to maintain this tradition and to limit its involvement to matters in its area of authority, meaning security evaluations only.”
Professor Tzvi Mazeh of Tel Aviv University has gone so far as to accuse the government of imposing restrictions reminiscent of the infamous German “numerus clausus.”
After the Supreme Court ordered the government to allow a West Bank woman, Sawsan Salameh, to study for her chemistry PhD at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, here, the military was supposed to reform the harsh regulations. Instead, it made them more harsh. Under the regulations, a Palestinian can only take PhD and MA slots if they can show “there is no practical alternative for the requested field of study other than Israel.”
The controversy is likely to further calls for a boycott of Israeli universities in the West, click here and here.
For the full story, click here.
“Nuclear weapons will be useless when properly armed Palestinians rise up.”
Zak,
I guess you don’t get the intent of my statement. Let me spell it out for you more clearly. If your “properly armed” Arabs start to overrun Israel those 150 or so bombs will be exploded. Radioactivity will cover the entire ME and uranium has a half life of 6,000 years. Almost everyone would be dead and the oil unusable. The Israeli’s faced with defeat wouldn’t be asking permission from anyone to do this. They are as, or more willing to die for their land as any of the suicide bombers
your side produces.
“Secondly, study a little bit of history, and see how the Jews were treated from Spain to Iran under various Muslim rule. In fact. Jews had prominent positions throughout Egypt, North Africa and the Middle East until Israel “expelled” the Palestinians.”
I have studied a lot of history, except perhaps I’m reading books that are more attempts to arrive at historic truth, rather than produce self-serving propaganda. This was what I wrote:
“While it is true that in some instances Arabs treatment of Jews has been somewhat better than Jews received under Christians, the fact remains that Jews were always treated as second class citizens by Arabs.”
You avoid my point which is that under Islamic Rule and Law, while Jews are to be honored as “People of the Book,” they were always to remain subservient to Muslims. Sounds like apartheid to me. Secondly,
even in ancient Greece and Rome slaves sometimes rose to positions of prominence, but they remained only at the whim of their masters. Some
Muslim leaders treated Jews very well, but it was always a dominant relationship. Many times when leadership changed the good treatment turned bad. I don’t know how you feel, but that type of relationship is a form of apartheid in my mind. Incidentally, it is this religious mindset that helps to prevent settlement and peace today, since for many Muslims a non-Islamic State among them is intolerable.
Finally, 600,000 Jews were expelled from Muslim lands between 1948 and 1956. Their property was confiscated by the State. The fact that Jews continued to live in Muslim lands, in a state of second-class citizenship, reflects the fact that in the Diaspora Jews learned to live and survive that way all over the world. Russian Jews lived in their “Shtetls” despite the fact that every now and then Cossacks and/or Czars would launch pogroms.
Finally Zak I must say that I’ve had enough of you. Your protestation of only hating Zionists, not Jews, does not seem true based on your writing. “Zionist Jew” is used too often, when according to your logic Zionist should suffice. Just like McCain, Bush and Cheney you use “code” to make anti-Jewish points, just as they do to make racist points. Also you copy their tactics by selectively picking out points to respond to and ignoring those that are salient. Two examples:
1. The idea of a Jewish State is an expression of apartheid, while the idea of an Islamic State seems perfectly reasonable to you.
2. You know damn well that Islam teaches that while Jews should be treated better than infidels, they should always be subservient to Muslims. This is also apartheid.
While I thought it might be interesting to have a dialog with you I realize that I am at a disadvantage. This is because I’m willing to concede points that disagree with some Israeli policy, as illustrated by my first comment on this thread. You, however, prefer to engage in polemics rather than honest discussion. A pity because we both might have gained from an exchange of ideas, but I see that is not possible.
Nuclear weapons will be useless when properly armed Palestinians rise up. Israel is too tiny to bomb the West bank or Gaza without killing a great number of Jews. Plus, Israel can’t even bomb Iran with conventional weapons today without explicit US approval. The US would NEVER tolerate Israel using nuclear weapons, for the same reason the USSR, China, India, Pakistan… have never used them, it would be suicide.
Secondly, study a little bit of history, and see how the Jews were treated from Spain to Iran under various Muslim rule. In fact. Jews had prominent positions throughout Egypt, North Africa and the Middle East until Israel “expelled” the Palestinians. SOME Arab countries expelled the Jews after witnessing Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians. Even under Saddam Hussein Jews thrived in Iraq and until the Shah was removed in 1979, there were over 80 000 Jews who lived in Iran rather than go to Israel. There were a quarter million Jews in Morocco before Israel was created and Egypt didn’t expel the Jews until after Israel’s Sinai campaign in 1956. There are still over 50 000 Jews in Iran today. Ironically, after the Palestinians, the Jews were the next most injured by the creation of Israel.
It amazes me that people think history only repeats itself to others. No empire has lasted forever, and when the US goes, so will Israel. The majority ALWAYS wins.
Zak,
Finally, about apartheid, Saudi Arabia is a Muslim State, so is Iran, so is Pakistan and Afghanistan, etc. In those countries Islamic Law is supreme, other religions are deemed inferior their religionists treated as second class citizens. Do you recognize this as also being apartheid? Jimmy Carter is a good man, I voted for him twice, but when it comes to the ME he doesn’t have a clue.
Zak,
While we’re speaking of apartheid how about the fact that most Muslim states in the ME, Asia and Africa practice apartheid when it comes to 50% of their population. Treating women as second-class citizens, without the same rights as men, is also apartheid. Please don’t hand me the cultural excuse about this either, because that gambit only leads to an approval of Southerners who said that segregation was part of their culture. The religious gambit fails also because many Christian sects believe in second class citizenship for women. Bandying around pjorative terms and using absolute standards when it comes to human political behavior is always fraught with intellectual peril for absolutists.
“The difference being that like in South Africa, the Arabs are the majority and I am sure will treat the Palestinian Jews just as equitably once they again control Palestine.”
Zak,
There is nothing in Arab history to back that up. While it is true that in some instances Arabs treatment of Jews has been somewhat better than Jews received under Christians, the fact remains that Jews were always treated as second class citizens by Arabs. I’m talking about the last 1,300 or so years. The fact that Christians have been driven out of Bethlehem is indicative of what happens when the shoe is on the other foot.
Zak, you might make your point of view better understood were you not obviously blind to the fact that there are wrongs and there are rights on both sides of the ledger. With or without US support the Israeli’s will not be defeated or driven out. That is why Israel developed nuclear weapons without US support or approval. To destroy Israel, is to destroy the entire ME, wherein the Jewish phrase “Never Again.” A just peace for all and the 2 State solution is the only way out. Otherwise the Saudi’s, the Despots and Big Oil win as the conflict continues.
By the way I’m not at all happy about the nuclear option, but I can understand how the Israeli mindset has developed after 6 decades of conflict. Nor am I optimistic that there will be a change in the Arab viewpoint. After all after 1,300 years Sunni and Shiite still kill each other over who had the right to succeed The Prophet.
Israel has already created an Apartheid Jew state.
Feel free to read, ‘Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid” by President Jimmy Carter, the ONLY President that has brought any peace to that region.
The jihadist fanatic Zakimar wrote:
“””South Africa was ALSO a “democracy”.”””
NO! South African under Apartheid was NOT a democracy. You lie!
Stop lying.
Why do jihadists defend apartheid South Africa? Because they want to create an apartheid Moslem-ruled state.
“””South Africa was ALSO a “democracy”.”””
NO! South African under Apartheid was NOT a democracy. You lie!
Stop lying.
The Americans should have compromised with the Nazis and the Japanese but since they didn’t, “no peace ever came about…”.
Some things are so completely wrong that one HAS to never compromise, Zionism and Apartheid are two of those things.
I suppose you condemned the atrocities on both sides and looked for compromise too between: US/Iraq; Serbia/Bosnia; Afrikaners/South Africans; Hutus/Tutsis; Germany/Poland? It is important to be impartial.
I’m sure the South Africans (also) miss your support and discussion as much as they miss the Afrikaners.
Zakimar:
“The difference being that like in South Africa, the Arabs are the majority and I am sure will treat the Palestinian Jews just as equitably once they again control Palestine.”
*************************
Since you are unwilling to compromise and, in fact look forward to the day when Palestinians have the upper hand to inflict the same claimed indiginites on the Israelis, you are consigning you and your brethren to perpetual conflict. That mentality keeps your region in turmoil, and even you must admit that is a dangerous position to espouse. No peace ever came about without a serving of crow for both sides, and your refusal to concede even the slightest fault on the part of the Palestinans for the problem makes you less that a reasonable man, and unworthy of further discussion.
And South Africa was ALSO a “democracy”. The Afrikaners were a tiny, tiny White population surrounded by Negroes who publicly stated their desire to eliminate them.
Israel is a democracy for Arabs like the US is a democracy for the Native Americans. The difference being that like in South Africa, the Arabs are the majority and I am sure will treat the Palestinian Jews just as equitably once they again control Palestine.
Zakimar, as the suggests by mention of the Supreme Court, Israel is indeed a democracy, no quotation marks around that word needed, and Israeli Arabs (not to be confused with Arabs of the disputed territories, i.e. “Palestinians) are part of it. You have a tiny, tiny nation of Israel here surrounded by not only by many and large nations that have publicly and in writing stated their desire to eliminate her, but closer to home, the Palestinian Authority (both Fatah and Hamas) that the Palestinians have elected (!) and continue to support states the same–both Hamas *and* fake moderates Fatah–so Israel (a nation daily under attack and facing existential threats) has a serious national security interest in addressing who can and cannot enter their own country.
I guess the Jews that oppose this form of Zionism, racism, Apartheid or whatever more pleasant words you have for it are the infamous “self-hating Jews”. Reminds me a little of keeping Blacks out of US Universities, but that was around the time the “democracy” of Israel was created.
One more thing to add — an Arab Israel caught stealing supplies from Hebrew University (to use in bombs against Israel), has just been allowed to return to the university to study. Israelis are more than humane and if called “stupid” (Michael) then only because they never learn how their mercy for the Arabs is only used against them.
– Rachel
Jonathan,
I wonder how many Iraqi, Iranian and Afghani citizens who are students are given VISAs, scholarships and access to American Universities and top programs? This post is ridiculous and another version of anti-semitism in disguise. Israel is more than fair to Palestinians, who in return for Israel’s support, pray for the country’s collapse. I live here and work as a journalist and know up from down.
I did some research first because I find most US media suspect when discussing treatment of Palestinians, but the above article was accurate. The fact that only about 1% of Israeli Professors oppose the occupation shows that Israel will NEVER voluntarily make a peace settlement with Palestinians.
I would think that in Israel as in most countries, University Professors are among the most educated, intelligent and rather affluent people and if 99% don’t oppose the occupation, what hope is there for the less educated, average Israeli Jew having a conscience and enough courage to oppose an illegal occupation?
You missed the article where Israel is not allowing the sick palestinians into Israel for treatment until the give the names of the terrorists. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/tell-us-who-the-terrorists-are-if-you-want-the-doctor-884245.html
Here is some additional information of which Turley may be unaware. The restriction refers to Palestinian residents of the West Bank and Gaza, not to Palestinians in East Jerusalem or to Israeli Arabs.
Palestinian students are students from the West Bank and Gaza. They are not Israelis, do not live in areas that the world recognizes as being part of Israel, do not claim to be Israelis, are not identified by others as being Israelis, do not live in areas (East Jerusalem) that Israel has annexed, and do not have residence permits to live in Israel.
About one-fifth of Israeli citizens are Arabs. They have the same ancestry, language and Moslem and Christian religions as the Palestinians, but live in Israel, e.g., Haifa, Nazareth, Jaffa, various villages scattered throughout Israel, etc. Thousands of Israeli Arabs attend Israeli universities like everyone else.
Residents of East Jerusalem definitely attend Hebrew University of Jerusalem. Someone who went there told me that he heard as many Arabic conversations among students there as he heard Hebrew ones. That might be an exaggeration.
Zakimar,
you’ve got me on this one since I see no justification of the edict and from an Israeli perspective it reeks of stupidity.
I’m glad to see there are some courageous Jews willing to take on their corrupt Government and Military. I hope Israel isn’t the style of “democracy” that Bush/McCain envisions for Iraq and the Middle East.