After a revolt among students and alumni, comedian and game show host Ben Stein has withdrawn as the paid spring commencement speaker and recipient of an honorary degree. Critics have cited Stein’s attacks on the theory of evolution and controversial views of science. He was to be paid $7500 for the speech.
UVM President Dan Fogel was obviously relieved by the withdrawal of Stein: “Commencement obviously is an occasion where we celebrate the achievements of our graduates and it should bring people together, it shouldn’t present a speaker who divides the community amidst heated controversy.”
Stein, 64, has denounced the theory of evolution and championed the intelligent design model. He has also tied the rise of the theory of evolution to eugenics and the Nazi movement.
As graduate of Yale Law School and former trial lawyer for the Federal Trade Commission, Stein served as a
speechwriter for presidents Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford. His most notable gigs, however, were as the host of the Comedy Central game show “Win Ben Stein’s Money,” or as the dry school teacher in “Ferris Bueller’s Day Off.” Now that Ben Stein has a day off, it is not clear who the UVM will ask to serve as his replacement.
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Gyges,
Good response to Bron on the issue of whether a Christian can believe in evolution. As a Catholic growing up, we were taught the bible was not literally true, but that it was used to educate people about God’s words. That was one of the few things that I agreed with the good Sisters on.
Buddha,
“It is not my dog!”
My math is fine. That, however, is not my math. I wish that it was. It’s Gödel’s. The only difference is I couldn’t use the forall symbol with WordPress (looks like an inverted A).
Is it just me or does that remind anyone of Peter Seller’s Clouseau asking “Does your dog bite?”
Buddha,
Aesthetically I like Linde’s model, but since it’s not really falsifiable…
Gyges,
What’s your preference in model? Inflationary or oscillating? Sure, how dark matter figures into that is still up discussion, but I find both ideas interesting even if the inflationary model is a little depressing.
Buddha:
that looks like a good book I will pick it up at the book store.
as far as the math goes why are you using that particular function? I think you may want to check it and try again.
Here’s a good place to start on the cosmology.
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/bb_concepts.html
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/bb_home.html
Bron,
The word in the quote is secularist, not atheist. There’s a world of difference.
To answer your question: Of course you can be a Christian and believe in evolution. You just can’t be a Bible Literalist, that that was the one of the points of the quote.
As to your assumption that all atheist believe in the big bang, there’s several different cosmological models that involve no divine influence most of which involve a big bang, but a sizable chunk of which don’t.
Gyges:
that is a good thought, how do you work out the issues on each side?
can you be a christian and believe in evolution personally I think you can but I think its harder on the atheist side to consider an alternative to the big bang. A christian can always have God at the core and it still makes sense to them even if you take away Adam and Eve and 6 days to create the world.
You’ll also want to read “Gödel, Escher, Bach: The Eternal Golden Braid” by Douglas Hoffsteader, too. If you think we’re unkind to inaccuracy here, you’ll really love arguing math.
No, you tool, I didn’t show the math because it was not needed. You want to argue math?
http://math-blog.com/
Knock yourself out, sport. It’s been proven that one of us (namely, all of us) knows what he is (we are) talking about and the other doesn’t (namely you). So how about you going on over to the Math Blog and you tell them how wrong Gödel is.
P(G(P)) = \forall y\, q(y,G(P))
You’ll need to understand that to start. Good luck.
JackB:
I am not talking about meterology or chemistry, or biology, I am thinking of the beginning how did it all start where did the universe(s) come from, that type of stuff.
I dont a god(s) make(s) the wind blow or the tides rise, etc.
one must first design before one can create ask any architect or engineer, granted that is in the human realm but it is the progression we know.
The thought suddenly struck me that this is another case of how when it comes to religion in this country people talk in terms of Christian (which usually means Bible literalist) and Atheist, ignoring all the alternatives.
I think Ebert put it best in his review of Stein’s movie, “By his premise no secularists believe in Intelligent Design, and no people with religious beliefs subscribe to Darwin’s theory. If there are people with religious beliefs who agree with Darwin (Catholics, Jews, Protestants, Mormons, Hindus, Muslims and Buddhists, for example) they are mistaken because they do not subscribe to A. Logan Craft’s religious beliefs.”
He is insincere and a distraction.
Sure seemed like it to me, and personally I dont think she is nuts I thought it was a legitimate question and why not teach ID as a seperate science course?
Personally there are some questions I have about evolution, like why does a coelecanth still look as it did oh what 150-200 million years ago ditto for crocs, what not enough environmental pressure? And how does evolution take place anyway, personally I think environmental pressure may change a birds feather color or the spots on a newt or a toad but how do you get wholesale species change? Viruses, genetic mutations over 1000’s of generations
what causes it? Fruit Flys dont mutate into other insects through hundreds of generations. And studying the effects of the atomic bomb blast in Japan and in the pacific has turned up a couple of genetic mutations but nothing significant yet.
Buddha how come you did not show her the math? Probably because you dont understand it yourself, you are a putz. Or more likely you dont have the gray matter to do it. Ohh I would show it to you but I opps I mean you arent bright enough to figure it out.
Has anyone seen this? http://twistedphysics.typepad.com/cocktail_party_physics/2009/01/skeptic-etiquette.html
It’s an entertaining (and relatively short) read. I think that most of us here agree with this quote “I have friends who believe LOTS of things I don’t, and … I guess I try to honor other people’s crazy and quirks the way I’d like them to honor mine.”
Jack,
That was very well said.
Buddha,
I love creation stories! I’ve read them since I was a child and I would have loved those classes in high school as well.
Bron98,
I can’t – and won’t – speak for any of the other atheists here, but I am not riled up about the possibility of God’s existence. Nor am I riled up about the possibility of millions of gods existing.
The mere possibility of the existence of a supernatural creator is no reason to allow it to be taught as science.
Should the existence of God/gods be factored into meteorology? What plays more into the projected path of a hurricane: atmospheric conditions, or what city along the Gulf Coast has incurred God’s wrath?
Intelligent Design is bad science not because of any supposed atheistic hostility towards god; it’s because, by definition, god is supernatural and has no place in science, which is a method of explaining the natural world.
It is my understanding that there are many devout Christians who see Intelligent Design not just as bad science, but it also bad theology. After all, God doesn’t design, He creates.
Jill,
When in college, I found the comparative religion courses that I took to be of great value and wished I’d had the chance to take them in high school. It’s a fascinating area of study.
How about giving Sally a chance to answer Jill’s question? Sally is NOT a nut. No one, NO ONE, said she was. The only person who said that is YOU and you didn’t have the balls to take attribution but instead tried to pass it off on others. I’ll insult people for myself, thanks – your “assistance” is not needed, wanted or required. Again, SALLY IS NOT NUTS. You on the other hand . . . well, it’s pretty self-evident at this point that you’re stored in vacuum sealed cans and stored near the chips and dips.
“There are four kingdoms to reality. The kingdom of earth, that of the underground, that under the sea, and that of the heavens.
The kingdom of the heavens was ruled by Thunderbird. When he opened his eyes the sun shone, when he ruffled his feathers the wind blew, when he waved his great wings the colours would flash and we would call it lightning, and when he slapped his wings together came the noise we call thunder.”
This is from the creation story of the Nootka people in British Columbia. It was kept secret when the christians came and forced the conversion of their people. They only more recently felt safe to write down their oral traditions. A collection of these traditions is found in the book: Daughters of Copper Woman by Anne Cameron.
I would love to see the schools teach the creation stories of the peoples of earth. What a wonderful thing to learn about! It could dispel much ignorance. It would be perfect for a class called, “Comparative Religions”.