The controversy over President Barack Obama continues with an interesting twist: Maj. Gen. Carroll Dean Childers (ret.) and active U.S. Air Force reservist Lt. Col. David Earl Graeff are supporting the litigation. On July 8th, Maj. Stefan Frederick Cook filed the suit July 8th in federal court demanding conscientious objector status and a preliminary injunction based upon his claim that President Barack Obama is not a natural-born citizen of the United States. He argued that, since Obama cannot serve as president of the United States, he cannot order him to deploy as commander-in-chief of the U.S. Armed Forces.
What is curious is the decision by the military to suddenly revoke the deployment orders of Cook. That served to fuel the growing movement spreading this rumor. The government is now claiming that the lawsuit is “moot” since Cook doesn’t have to go to Afghanistan. Cook in turn has added a claim to this lawsuit that he was retaliated against for his lawsuit after he was terminated at Simtech Inc., a Department of Defense contractor.
The addition of a retired major general and active colonel will have more of a promotional and legal benefit for these litigants. It was an unfortunate decision to revoke these orders. The Administration should have fought the lawsuit on the merits rather than try to moot the matter. The optics are perfect for those alleging a grand conspiracy to conceal Obama’s birth certificate (which has been viewed as third parties) and hide his alleged foreign born status.
For the full story, click here.
BTW, BVM is a shopping mall, not a person, so he she or it cannot by definition be the subject of a “personal” attack. lol
“Bob,Esq. said; “And the STATE of Hawaii, i.e. acting on EQUAL FOOTING as the 13 ORIGINAL COLONIES, has certified that Obama is qualified as a Natural Born Citizen to serve as President”
Byrne: That’s an outright lie Bob. Hawaii has not certified that Obama is qualified as a natural born citizen to serve as President.
Bob is telling the truth. Byrne has no basis to call him a liar, and personal attacks like that do not belong here.
I have posted the federal law. The COLB has been examined by independent reporters. It is an official document that is prima facie evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii, one of the United States, and because he was born a US citizen, he is a natural born citizen eligible for the Presidency.
BVM, Nothing that Orly Taitz says can be relied on. Most of her court pleadings contain patently false information. She is still telling courts that Americans could not travel to Pakistan in 1961 when an official State Dept notice said they could get visas.
Bil, welcome back to this thread. I am very sorry for your loss.
I second Vince’s call for BVM’s censure.
He’s had his spam, er, say.
A computerized image of the Certification of life birth for Mr. Obama and Certification of Selective Service in statements from experts, show these documents to exhibit numerous signs of forgery. Adding to the forgery charges for 50 ststes there are numerous counts of suspected fraud, voter fraud, mail fraud, wire fraud, corruption of a public official, intimidation, interference with the system of justice, social security fraud, tax fraud, perjury and other related crimes.
Please see http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/blog1 and http://www.orlytaitzesq.com for evidence.
“With Obama’s refusal to permit the Governor of Hawaii to release his birth certificate from the vault, I’m even willing to question his status as a citizen.”
When and where did this “refusal” take place? Any links or cites?
Once again, Hawaii does not issue any so called vault or long form certificates to anyone any more, and I have linked to the sources.
The campaign has released everything that the state will release.
The COLB that was released is in full compliance with the existing federal law, quoted above.
Byrne has said that Obama is not a natural born citizen even if he was born in Hawaii, because his father was not a citizen.
So what is the point of seeing the birth records?
Even if more records are released and prove birth in the US, he will still challenge Obama’s legitmacy.
So the question: Why the concern about the certificate?
The burden was on Obama to prove birth, He produced the evidence. He had nothing to hide. None of the other canditates showed any certificate at all.
Is everyone really sure that G W Bush was natural born? How do you know? Seen his bc? Because he is a very credible person?
The COLB will be valid for all purposes under the proposed bill if Obama chooses to run for reelection in 2012, because it is valid under existing federal law.
Of course, no one HAS to “beleive” any of this.
Byrne, is there any scholarly research in the records of the debates of the 13 ratifying conventions that has found any indication that the conventions considered Vattel on the issue of natural born citizen?
From Military.com
“Officer Calls Obama ‘Usurper’ President”
http://www.military.com/news/article/February-2009/officer-calls-obama-usurper-imposter-president.html?col=1186032325324
And since this is a legal blog, here is the defintion from federal law of the standards for a birth certificate:
SEC. 7211. MINIMUM STANDARDS FOR BIRTH CERTIFICATES.
Contents
(a) Definition.–In this section, the term “birth
certificate” means a certificate of birth–
(1) for an individual (regardless of where born)–
(A) who is a citizen or national of the
United States at birth; and
(B) whose birth is registered in the United
States; and
(2) that–
(A) is issued by a Federal, State, or local
government agency or authorized custodian of
record and produced from birth records
maintained by such agency or custodian of
record; or
(B) is an authenticated copy, issued by a
Federal, State, or local government agency or
authorized custodian of record, of an original
certificate of birth issued by such agency or
custodian of record.
The COLB meets all of the requirement of this section, enacted as part of the terrorism laws to standardize birth certificates across the country.
It was issued by an agency, by the authorized custodian, based on the birth records of the agency.
“Congressman / Judge Ted Poe says COLB is not a birth certificate, Obama has not produced a birth certificate.”
That is a lie, and lies will be challenged here. The COLB is a legal birth certificate, valid in Hawaii and all other states.
The BIG LIE technique. Keep repeating a lie until people bleieve it.
MODERATORS
BVM FELONY IDENTITY POST SHOULD BE REMOVED
It violates the rules of civility at this site.
It contains no reasoning, only wild charges that are false, inflamatory and possibly defamatory. The posting charges treason, criminal activity, and mutiny in the armed forces, wrongly, and with reckless disregard of truth or falsity.
The fraudulent fake “grand jury” was summarily kicked out of court in the District of Columbia.
Folks here should take a look at military.com. A lot of posters there, like the paratrooper quoted above, were severely underimpressed by civilian citizen Cook who sued to stop the deployment he himself “volunteered” for.
The people ratified the Constitution through and by means of conventions called for the purpose, and have rataified all amendments either by legislature or convention. This country is a “representative” republic. That is how the people act.
The real issue can be reframed. When was Vattel ratified as part of the Constitution by any means whatsoever.
And one more time. To understand the meaning of many terms in the Constitution, consult the common law at the time. If someone wants a civil jury trial, it must be a suit a common law. 7th Amd. What is a suit at common law? Consult the common law.
Congressman / Judge Ted Poe says COLB is not a birth certificate, Obama has not produced a birth certificate.
From the JAG Hunter:
FEDERAL ARREST OF TREASONER OBAMA IS CREDIBLY REPORTED TO OCCUR IN 60 TO 90 DAYS!
Reports have been coming in for several days that the IMPOSTOR OBAMA will be placed under federal arrest in anywhere from 60 to 90 days for TREASON!
WELL DONE to AMERICA’S GRAND JURIES!
OBAMA’S is to be the first of tens if not hundreds of arrests of OBAMA’S TREASONOUS CRIMINAL ASSISTANTS!
Details emerging suggest that military commanders are refusing to obey OBAMA’s orders recognizing OBAMA as a TREASONOUS foreign born domestic enemy.
Bob,Esq. said; “And the STATE of Hawaii, i.e. acting on EQUAL FOOTING as the 13 ORIGINAL COLONIES, has certified that Obama is qualified as a Natural Born Citizen to serve as President”
That’s an outright lie Bob. Hawaii has not certified that Obama is qualified as a natural born citizen to serve as President.
With Obama’s refusal to permit the Governor of Hawaii to release his birth certificate from the vault, I’m even willing to question his status as a citizen.
Honest people don’t hide information that would provide a defense unless the information contaains something they don’t want the public to know. This whole..because I don’t gotta bullcrap is childish. President Obama needs to stop hiding. -Or should we call him Dick Cheney II?
hidflect,
Read all of Jim Byrnes post’s and discover that yes he does think the President is illegitimate.
This is a good conversation. I always like people picking up the “Devil’s Advocate” baton for the sake of a quality debate and I doubt anyone really thinks Obama is illegitimate as a N.B.C. Surely?
Look people don’t you get it already? BVM is just a moron, who did call for a coup d’etat. Jim Byrne, however, is something else entirely. He is playing a game and he’s got you playing on his board, so he keeps going and no matter how logically you demolish his foolishness, he just dances around it and gets you repeating points where you’ve already demolished his idiocy with many posts before. As I showed by dissecting his posts this is someone who has an axe to grind but is so dishonest and dishonorable that he plays games with us.
You see the disingenuous always have an advantage in a debate with the earnest. The why is obvious. He doesn’t hesitate to dissemble when each of his points are destroyed. What can we learn though about Jim Byrne despite his penchant for disingenuity?
1. He is a birther, but more cerebral than the norm, that is obvious.
2. He believes in interpreting the Constitution strictly based on the Founder’s Intent view, which would put him four square with the Federalist Society.
3. He believes that Constitutionally women are less than men despite the 19th Amendment which he interprets in a most curious manner.
4. He is perhaps a creature of the crazy right wing, but perhaps too he could be a libertarian. You see we can’t know because that is part of his game.
5. He professes to be a military man and even has used it as a club to express some higher knowledge of truth by his service. If he was in the military he did not serve in combat.
6. You will never win a debate with him, even though his points are weak and stupid, but simply because he ignores it when he is bested. If you think I’m wrong read all of the posts on the thread and see where when a telling point is made he simply responds in a non-responsive fashion.
We all must remember that this is a man who claims monsieur Vattel was the primary influence on our Constitution, which is a concept of monumental stupidity, save for the fact that its’ beholder is a true believer in his Federalist Society polemics. The society was begun by a group including Edwin Meese, Robert Bork, Ted Olson and Steven Calabresi, and its members have included Supreme Court justices Antonin Scalia, John Roberts, Jr. and Samuel Alito. You know the society by its founders, who are true believers in their dogma, but many of whom have shown that despite the dogma, they also like to enrich themselves and take opposing points of view when it suits their politics. They are disingenuous men like Jim
Byrne.
However, were that all,one could justly say that well one may disagree`with them, but they’ve got their right to their opinion. That would be true as far as it went were it not for the fact that at root their beliefs are anti-democracy. Count the times Jim has alluded to this and I take him at his word.
The Federalists and Jim basically believe in the rule of plutocracy, an elite, because the unwashed masses don’t have the intelligence to govern themselves. Look back again to his musings on the 19th Amendment and ponder if you will what is behind it.
Now many have questioned his kindred spirit BVM’s word construction that seemed to call for a military coup and you were right to do so. Don’t be too sure that this isn’t also Jim Byrne’s game, but he is somewhat smarter than BVM, who is an idiot. A coup is the end game of the birther movement, pure and simple. If you think this is folly then check out the life of General Smedley Butler, who testified to congress that he was approached by a group of wealthy industrialists urging him to lead a coup against FDR. The committee he testified before in its final report took his charges as credible.
While Vince, Mike A and Slartibartfast are able debaters, I too have some skills in that area and frankly Jim is any easy
person to take apart, other than he concedes nothing, so entrenched is he in his delusion of righteousness. However, at some point it became obvious to me the game he was playing, which includes his sincere beliefs, but doesn’t include the ability to absorb contrary viewpoints. At that point I realized that by taking his nonsense seriously, you are giving him more credibility and recognition than he deserves. You cannot out debate someone who will never admit defeat and instead claim victory, despite having their ideas demolished.
We may all be justly proud of our debating skills, but never forget that debate only works when all the parties to it are honorable and honest. Without that the demagogue always wins simply because the demagogue is bound by no rules of fairness.
If you think I’m being melodramatic think back on the last 29 years, it actually goes back much farther of course, and see how the national discussion has gone, observing how demagoguery has carried the day. Jim Byrne is a demagogue and so your sterling proofs fall on deaf ears. By the way when you agree to disagree with him, you are then giving his nonsense credence.
JB: “The people” did not ratify the Constitution. It was adopted by members of the state conventions.”
That’s right. And the STATE of Hawaii, i.e. acting on EQUAL FOOTING as the 13 ORIGINAL COLONIES, has certified that Obama is qualified as a Natural Born Citizen to serve as President.