Conservative commentators continue their war on the Constitution this week with increasingly shrill rhetoric of how our laws and civil liberties are endangering us. Fox News commentator Bill O’Reilly, however, achieved a remarkable low by declaring “I don’t care about the Constitution” on air in a discussion of Attorney General Eric Holder’s decision to try five detainees in New York.
I am always struck by anti-American rhetoric that comes from such figures. The Constitution is the very thing that defines who we are as a nation. It is the thing that we have sacrificed lives and treasure to protect. Yet, people like O’Reilly have little reluctance in trashing it. I am less surprised by Karl Rove, who has shown little personal commitment to the rule of law and barely escaped an indictment in the Plame matter. Rove declared that giving a fair trial to terror suspects is a “long-standing plot” by “left-wing lawyers who do not love America.” America, it seems, is something other than our values and founding documents. It is, I suppose, Fox News.
I have no delusion about O’Reilly, but I am still struck by the dismissive contempt shown this common article of faith between citizens, the Constitution. While we have considerable political, religious, and cultural differences, that document is something of a covenant of faith between us as citizens. One cannot love this country without loving that document. What is less is land and “lifestyle.” O’Reilly’s statement is every bit as offensive as those of Rev. Jeremiah Wright, whom I also denounced. Yet, it was met with acclaim rather than condemnation from conservative viewers.
Byron
I find your arguments quite unpersuasive especially in light of the history you try to rewrite, the facts you ignore and the last 30 years of dominance of the conservative brand (daily promotion of self-serving greed) showing itself a complete, utter and abject failure. That movement had it’s chance, it didn’t work.
At least Jeremiah Wright served in the armed forces not like all of the chicken hawks on the right
“When I mention these rights of an alien, I must be understood of alien friends only, or such whose countries are in peace with ours; for alien-enemies have no rights, no privileges, unless by the king’s special favor, during the time of war.” -Blackstone
Only U.S. Citizens, or those visiting this country, who accept temporary allegiance to this country, should receive the protections afforded by our Constitution on those who do.
The precedent being set is a very dangerous one. Countries will no longer wage war against us. Instead, well-funded organizations, like Al Qaeda, will be secretly endorsed by our enemies. They will be afforded the full protections of the Geneva Convention and the U.S. Constitution while not bound to either.
Byron,
You missed the central lesson of the Depression: Unregulated markets led to exactly what we were in then and lead to exactly where we find ourselves now. The only difference now is the crime is too complicated for the average joe to truly appreciate the scale. We had 50 years of prosperity after the Depression because of the safeguards put in place by FDR and subsequent war spending. The last 35 yeas have been spent by the fascist elements in our system in efforts to remove and roll back as much of that regulation as possible.
Government’s role in business IS NOT stimulation. It’s regulation and enforcement whether business likes it or not. That’s what governments role was traditionally and should be again. That’s governments role in business unless it’s a truly fascist state, in which case, the pols take their orders from corporations.
I dare say the last characterization is a more accurate representation of what We the People actually have today.
rcampbell:
given that Iran and Saudi Arabia are what drives radical Islam I think that would have been a good strategy. And also when you fight a war you fight it, you dont screw around. FDR understood that concept and so did Harry Truman.
Prior to the bailouts the market was working to consolidate and work out the problems, the bailout prolonged the problem and it is probably going to be years before this recession is over because of government stimulus. My guess is that we would not have had a financial collapse without the $750 billion, most of which appears to have gone to other things and that we would be well on our way to recovery. But since Keynes still carries the day we are going to have another 10 year recession/depression. Hopefully the second time around we will learn the lesson we should have learned in the 1930’s-Government doesn’t stimulate a single thing and John Maynard is a third rate economist at best.
I suggest you get out of the market and buy copious quantities of gold and silver. Inflation hasn’t even hit yet, but it is coming. A government cant spend like it has with no consequences.
B-man,
I can’t speak to Byron’s logic, but America wouldn’t be invading anyone other than the Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan (Men+$+Training Facilities) if the Saudis didn’t own Bush and Cheney outright. As soon as we found out all but one of the highjackers was Saudi? You bet we should have kicked their ass. All the way flat. When someone attacks you, that’s what you’re SUPPOSED to do. The Israel issue is another problem all together. They have also used PACs to subvert our system and are allowed to maintain AIPAC despite being busted for harboring Israeli spies on multiple occasions – an act which should merit expelling their ambassadors and shutting down any Israeli based/funded lobby. Two discrete but tangentially related problems.
Byron,
Iran?
Did you forget the theological flavor that the Saudi theocracy represents? Their entire goal is not just Islamic domination over the West, but over EVERYTHING. They are insane zelots. This does not forgive Iran for their despotic actions but THEY DIDN’T ATTACK US EVEN BY PROXY ON 9/11. What you are saying is dangerously close to The Bush Doctrine of “preemptive” war – absolute bullshit. You want to call Iran bad guys, you bet. Their government sucks and I hope their people rise up and slay them, but let’s call the major shit disturbers as they really are and not omit anyone. Especially the Saudi fundies who DID attack us.
Byron,
I’m interested in your logic that Saudi Arabia and Iran are the problems, when it is Israel and America who are invading other countries.
This should prove interesting.
rc,
In re Saudi Arabia
Attacking the country that supplied both the manpower and the money for 9/11 is in no way inappropriate. On the contrary, that would have been the sensible thing to do 1) because it’s fair to destroy those who would destroy you and 2) they did it. We didn’t attack Saudi Arabia simply and solely because Bush was in bed with the bastards. There are only two countries we should be occupying. Iraq is neither of them. Attacking Iraq was the work of fascists. They are RINO’s – Republicans In Name Only.
Bman:
The intellectual root, in my opinion, for Islamic totalitarianism is Iran.
I certainly dont disagree with your assessment that 9/11 was an excuse for Neocones to aid Israel. The real destabilizers in the Mid-East, in my opinion, are Saudi Arabia and Iran for the reasons I stated above.
In my opinion America should get out of global politics and concern ourselves with our own corner of the world while we get our house in order. Stop aid to countries and withdraw our military bases and work to improve our own lot for awhile. Let someone else pick up the tab for a change.
“A true conservative would have kicked the living sh . . . out of Saudi Arabia and Iran and eradicated the Taliban and Al Qaeda after 9/11”.
Is that supposed to be something to be proud of? So, real conservatives are even MORE prone to senseless use of military force than fake ones? That’s a pretty stunning admission. Iran and Saudi Arabia immediately after 9/11? Wow!
“A true conservative would never have bailed out AIG or the other banks….”
Therefore, a true conservative would have allowed the US and potentially the world economy to collapse under the weight of the failed US conservative economic agenda which brought it to the point of collapse in the first place? Another quite telling admission. But, I think it must have just killed Bush inside to bail out AIG, etal. I believe that, as a real conservative, he wanted to let the clock run out and make this someone else’s problem. It’s either that or recognizing McCain wasn’t going to win, they deliberately added $750B to the debt over a weekend. Their political calculus and cynicism told them that such a move would make health care reform and other Obama initiatives more difficult. That’s not real conservatism?
“a true conservative would never have increased medicare/medicaid payments….”
I’ll agree that a complete disregard for the American people is a hallmark of true conservatism.
“a true conservative would have given people more than a measly $600 in tax rebates (money I might add that is theirs to begin with)”.
The conservatives fought this idea, put forward by Congressional DEMOCRATS, tooth and nail.
There’s nothing like a good rant by Buddha about “Swill-o” to get one primed for the day.
Here’s my rhyming rant about Bill:
Bill O.
Bill O., Bill O., Bill O’Reilly
Thinks he’s savvy, brilliant, wily…
Thinks his TV program rocks
‘Cause he’s the ratings king at Fox!
He’s a blowhard; he’s dogmatic.
His verbal cancer’s metastatic!
Bill O. likes to sputter, rant—
But when he’s wrong, he won’t recant.
Bill’s his own best adulator.
He’s a pompous bloviator…
A smarmy, smug intimidator…
A nasty, vile expectorator
Of speech that’s meant to anger, rile.
He’s one great big bag of bile!!!
And here’s an excerpt from a poem John Cleese wrote about Bill O. and read on Countdown some time ago:
Bill O’Reilly’s No Spin Zone is rated highly
by his own beloved mother,
but no other.
Except that Bill for all his faults
still has one skill, a skill of sort:
He can amuse a true dull ox,
the dullest crayon in the box,
the kind of ox that watches Fox.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27507774
What does this mean?
Iran is the intellectual God Father
If taking out countries because they fund rogue regimes or whatever it is you are saying they fund, then America would have long ago been totally demolished and done away with.
The hypocrisy of our country stifles me.
The very basic matter of Iran has everything to do with their disdain for Israel’s war crimes and aggression. Until the Zionist agenda is done away with, they have every right to be concerned about them.
I agree with you about Saudi Arabia, but only to a degree that mimics the standard “official” story that these very neocon crooks cooked up: that they were the sole perpetrators of 9/11.
I don’t believe that for a second.
Bman:
In my opinion Saudi Arabia is the banker to radical/fundamentalist Islam and Iran is the intellectual God Father. You disrupt the stream of cash and ideas and the movement folds.
I agree with your assessment, their are very few true conservatives and even fewer true liberals. I have more in common with Jack Kennedy and Harry Truman than I do with George Bush II (actually when all is said and done I wish he had not been president, he was not a conservative and did harm to conservatives as a philosophical movement). I have nothing in common with Richard Nixon or Lyndon Johnson. And even less in common with Bush I.
Most who claim to be conservative today, such as Sarah Palin irritate me for different reasons than they irritate you but irritate me non the less.
Actually to tell you the truth, there are probably only a few issues where you and I disagree. My most fundamental issue is economic and political freedom. I don’t think you can have one without the other. Current day conservatives want to take away political freedom and current day liberals want to take away economic freedom.
Yes, Byron, that was sarcasm.
And while I will allow that all politicians are “the same” in some respects, their ideologies could not be more diverse. And I find my beliefs much closer to those “typical politicians” on the left than the “typical politicians” on the right. So there.
Byron,
Neither side has a monopoly on bad guys. But if you want to look at whose hand was on the tiller to set the course to destroy the Constitution, the right wins. Hands down. And it started with Reagan and his ghost president George I (may he burn in Hell). The leftist who don’t care about the Constitution don’t want it to go away, just leave them alone to be criminals like the GOP too. The neocon right, not conservatives in the traditional sense like you or FFLEO, were the driving force behind crap like the Patriot Act and pimping for Bush to illegally invade a country that didn’t attacks us. Both sides have/are villains. The current system only encourages criminals, the otherwise ethically compromised and those willing to do what they are told by their paymasters instead of the citizen constituents they actually work for. But one side is far, far more culpable for the current state of affairs because they DID cause it. The other is far, far more culpable for the continued erosion of rights because they are spineless weasels who would have to bury some of their own in order to bury Bush and they won’t/don’t want to/can’t get off the corporate teat either (just like a good junkie). One gets the blame for crashing the car. The other gets the blame for setting it on fire. Two guilty “parties”, but both afflicted by the same K Street graft that likes to play both ends against the middle.
But you take offense at people attacking the right as if they were attacking traditional conservatives when (let’s be honest) 90% of the time they just are using inaccurate terminology to define the enemies within the system. They usually mean Neocons even if they themselves do not make the word association. I will stipulate that educating people on the difference between traditional conservatives and the bad guys is key, but by your own admission, the Neocons do not represent you. Why should you care enough to defend them even in the slightest? Educate, sure, but don’t defend. The far right is fascism. The far left is communism. Maybe now you’ll see why economically, I’m more of a socialist than you. Extreme polarites are inherently destructive.
flipkid:
I will assume that is sarcasm? Actually Obama is taking a chance, he may not see it as political calculus but it is. I give him credit for having the balls to do this, if this is something more than just a show trial. If it works out he wins, if it doesnt or something goes wrong he is SOL politically.
If there were some sort of an attack in New York or KSM was found not guilty or given a light sentence there would be political hell to pay. So probably the fix is in and KSM is having his day in Kangaroo Kourt for our benefit. Call me cynical but most politicians are full of sh . . ., and out for themselves, Obama is no different.
Byron,
It is my contention that true conservatism left our government’s walls long ago.
Wonder why Iran needs the shit kicked out of them? That is a very interesting comment coming from a “conservative”. Just what have they done to deserve such a wrath? Did they invade Iraq or something?
Let me let you in on a little truth: the two party system is a sham to keep people fighting amongst themselves, as these assholes ravage and steal us blind.
And most of America seems to enjoy this.
rcampbell:
I beg to differ, most conservatives I know have a healthy respect for the Constitution. I think I can make a fairly good case that Bush was not a true conservative.
A true conservative would have kicked the living sh . . . out of Saudi Arabia and Iran and eradicated the Taliban and Al Qaeda after 9/11. A true conservative would never have bailed out AIG or the other banks, a true conservative would never have increased medicare/medicaid payments, a true conservative would have given people more than a measly $600 in tax rebates (money I might add that is theirs to begin with). A true conservative would have told Alan Greenspan and Henry Paulson to go f . . . themselves.
There are many on the left that have contempt for the Constitution as well and use it to further their own agendas. Neither side of the political spectrum has a monopoly on truth, justice and the American way.
Both the right and left appear to be infected with unreasoning fear. Fear certainly surrounds us thanks to our “news” organizations and the govt. which appears to control them. Of course there are also real reasons to be afraid. Interestingly, those issues are seldom addressed by either the news or the govt (ie: increasing starvation and homelessness). There is no rational link between terrorism and the destruction of the Constitution. It is wholly made up, constantly hyped and presto, many people believe in the link.
Bill is basically saying he’s found yellow cake in the Constitution. He’s lying. Democracies can’t function with so many lies. It’s important to say he’s a liar and a coward. That’s what he and everyone like him is.