Theresa Collier, 73, is a grandmother in Largo, Florida who was arrested after she slapped her granddaughter for swearing at her. Felicia Collier, 18, repeatedly told her grandmother to f*** off and then called the police when the grandmother slapped.
Collier invited her granddaughter to come to her house to work on her computer. The teen is finishing her final year at home after being kicked out of Catholic school in Massachusetts. You guessed it: she told a nun to f*** off.
What is particularly odd is that, when the police proceeded to immediately arrest the grandmother, Felicia tried to convince them not to arrest her and explained that it was not necessary. It didn’t do much good. The grandmother spent the next 24 hours in jail.
Lt. Mike Loux insists that the grandmother deserved to be behind bars because the granddaughter recently turned 18: “I understand the difference between corporal punishment on a child, disciplining your child for using poor language, this is an 18-year-old child.” If he wants this to be the department’s defense, he might want to drop the “child” part since he is presumably basing the arrest on the notion that she is an adult. He insisted that this is simply a case of “domestic battery” and “our policy is a mandatory arrest of that person.”
Apparently, his officers are not allowed to exercise any common sense or judgment.
For the full story, click here.
Had I said something like that to my grandmother, I would have found my teeth on the floor grinning back up at me. Oh, hell no, she didn’t call the cops. That deserves another slap. The arresting officer deserves a slap too.
Grandmothers in D.C. are jailed and convicted for domestic violence assault for similar behavior. It does not even makes the news.
Buddha:
If I have too much law then what happens? No one is sure what the law is and no one knows if they are engaging in criminal behavior. Anything could be a criminal act from chewing gum in public to walking on the grass. Laws are made or at least should be made to protect people from the initiation of force by others. When the law itself becomes the initiator you in effect have no law.
So how am I lying to myself?
And if you think I think that rich white people deserve a break for using or selling cocaine you are incorrect. They deserve the same sentence as anyone else.
Interesting debate with several good points raised. I have never given much thought to “mandatory” sentencing or “no tolerance” policies… after careful reading and rereading, I gotta go with mespo.
For a perfect example of what CM is talking about, look into the mandatory sentencing disparities between convictions for distribution of powdered cocaine (a vice of the wealthier and usually white neighborhoods) versus crack (a vice of usually poorer minority composed neighborhoods). Crack dealers get harsher sentences. That’s an arena where racially disproportionate responses are the judicial norm because of mandatory sentencing.
And all of what mespo said.
“Too much law is like no law at all.”
No. It’s not. If you understood what anarchy actually entails you wouldn’t have made yet another ridiculous assertion. Ever been in a place where the law has failed? I have. New Orleans after Katrina. Too much law can lead to stagnation which belies your perpetual argument we have too much regulation here because last time I checked we were getting screwed by the oil, insurance, pharma and banking industries who are all posting record profits. Stagnation in an economy and/or repression of citizenry is not the equivalent of anarchy. You are trying to equate a situation where the law has become lawless to a situation where there is no law.
That’s a false equivalency, Byron. And that IS a lie. To yourself if no one else.
Carlyle:
Are you sure elected officials are targeting blacks and Hispanics on purpose? Don’t rob, murder, rape is universally applicable to all races. But I do agree with you, there are way too many laws on the books and that is a recipe for abuse by all levels and departments of government against all citizens of whatever ethnic background.
The rule of law is one thing, over bearing/arching legislation is another. Too much law is like no law at all.
Until normal citizens wake up to the losses that they themselves incur from laws meant to lock up minorities and manage to transcend their entrenched racism against Negroes and Hispanics that makes them support punitive laws, politicians will continue to pander to these people and pass such laws.
I am with Byron. Politicians propose more law and order than the nation can afford because they are under the impression that no one has ever lost votes by proposing a law that is too stupid, a sentence that is too long or tolerance that is too near zero.
This article from Alternet a few days ago describes research that has shown that American legal punitivness is associated with race based animus towards blacks and hispanics.
mESPO:
but aren’t the police enforcing laws created by elected officials? How much latitude do they have to interpret laws? If they have too much latitude isn’t that the same as having no legislative control/oversight at all?
Byron:
We do elect legislators, but most of these abuses are caused by internal police policies. We don’t elect the police hierarchy typically, unless it is an elected Sheriff. In the legislative arena we do have some control but it is always an after the fact remedy.
John. The answer to your question is both.
If you want to know the direction the US is going in then look at the UK. Our countries tend to follow eachother down any road to lunacy.
By the way, our country is heading the same way as Noway, where being a parent is a true Orwellian nightmare.
Mespo:
we elect the policy makers as Gyges said about taxes on another thread. So in effect aren’t we to blame?
Felicia tried to convince them not to arrest her and explained that it was not necessary. It didn’t do much good…
She was probably lucky they didn’t charge her with domestic terrorism…Policemen are just not human anymore, are they?
Have they nothing better to worry about?
In that case I’d fire at least half of them.
Alan:
“The mandatory arrest policy is in place because of us. As citizens, we demanded that the police arrest everyone, so that is what they do.”
**************
This is patent absurdity. I, nor anyone I know, has ever made such a demand and no plebiscite was ever on any ballot here demanding this draconian policy. This is simply policy-making run amok in deference to performance reviews and winnowing discretion out of the system. Most of the police officers I know (and there are lots of them) like this no better that we do. Who wants to give up discretion in their job? The public hasn’t spoken on this, policymakers have.
The mandatory arrest policy is in place because of us. As citizens, we demanded that the police arrest everyone, so that is what they do. This is just another facet of the “zero tolerance” idiocracy that we ourselves demand from our public servants.
what about elder abuse on the part of the grandaughter?
Mandatory arrest laws were put in place precisely because most victims do not want to see family members go to jail once the police arrive. We once had a value in the justice system to keep families intact and allow them to work out their own problems. These policies (and sometimes laws) are simply a disincentive to call the police created by the police hierarchy who believe it is a waste of the officer’s time to quell a dispute without making an arrest. It’s not good for their stats. Stupidity here doesn’t begin with the arresting officer nor Lt. Loux. It goes all the way to the top, and like so many management tools is perverted by some of them for their own career advancement. The love of money is indeed the root of all evil, and ambition without principle is merely cunning. Hence the outright affront to common sense.
Quote “Lt. Mike Loux insists that the grandmother deserved to be behind bars”
Hey, here’s another one that needs a good slap!
I don’t know who raised Lt Stupid there, but no matter what age I was, if I had told my parents to F off, I would be picking up my teeth.
The funny thing is that even the grand daughter knew she shouldn’t be arrested, but the cops weren’t smart enough to figure it out, even when told by the “victim”.
Either our country’s morals are going to heck or we’re getting too many stupid people being born…not sure which it is…LoL