Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas is reportedly outraged and may be heading down to New Orleans after his nephew, Derek Thomas, was punched and tasered at a Louisiana hospital after refusing to put on a gown.
Derek Thomas may have been admitted after a possible suicide attempt and suffered a “massive seizure.” When he refused to put on the gown and attempted to leave, he was reportedly punched by a security guard who also pulled out some of his hair. He was then tasered.
Derek is the son of Justice Thomas’ late younger brother Myer Lee Thomas and is a student at Nicholls State College.
It is an ironic twist given Thomas’ staunch voting record in favor of law enforcement interests and against the rights of people accused in criminal cases. In Safford v. Redding, for example, Thomas dismissed the claims of abuse stemming from the strip searching of a middle school girl to look for Ibuprofen. Thomas was the lone dissenter to claim that the search was both justified and the officials deserved both immunity and praise. He insisted the “[p]reservation of order, discipline, and safety in public schools is simply not the domain of the Constitution. And, common sense is not a judicial monopoly or a Constitutional imperative.”
Likewise, Thomas was not exactly sympathetic when citizens complained about being searched for fleeing from police. While not a hospital scene like that of his nephew, Thomas joined in the decision in Justice Thomas joined the Court’s decision in Illinois v. Wardlow when the Court held that running away from officers is the basis for reasonable suspicion and a search.
Source: Gawker
Marnie:
“Before judging the hospial staff or guard too seriously we need a good deal more information.”
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Always good advice there, Marnie, given the dearth of information in the article. I don’t reflexively assume officer abuse unless the facts justify it. For every insecure thug with a uniform there are scores of well-intentioned people just doing their jobs and wanting to get through the shift unscathed and get home.
Before judging the hospial staff or guard too seriously we need a good deal more information.
Thousands of hospital staff, nurses and ER personnel are injured each year by violent patients. Sometimes accidently, or unintentionally, sometimes simmply because the patient has lost their cool and is acting out violently.
Did the patient try to leave? Did the patient sign the proper documents to be released without medical approval? Why refuse the gown? Why was a guard involved in the first place?
The odds are the guard was involved because the patient was violent or sufficiently beligerent that the staff felt the need of protection. But why.
Blouise:
“Your refined sarcasm may be lost on some. Don’t get me wrong. I like it.”
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Count me in, too.
Blouise,
Your refined sarcasm may be lost on some. Don’t get me wrong. I like it. And in this instance it brought to the fore a post from someone I’ve generally set to “ignore” for a variety of reasons.
kay,
Awwww. You don’t like it when those in authority are the target of derision? Then you are just in the wrong place as this is a true free speech zone. Fortunately I, or indeed We, don’t take orders from you or Rule 404 but especially in re public figures discussed in a public forum.
Respect for an Office and respect for an individual are not equivalent. Character evidence may be introduced at any time (and often is) to impeach the credibility of a speaker. This isn’t court. Outside of a courtroom, I’ll say what I want about whom I want, when I want. Many (if not most but especially the lawyers) of us here know the legal boundaries so how about you let others worry about their public speech and you stick to policing your own, Ms. Manners. If you don’t like it when the play gets rough? Tough. You’re not the playground monitor. You want to make a general assertion in favor of civility? That’s your right. James had similar feelings but he didn’t resort to the Rules of Evidence to make his opinion seem to have more weight than any other opinion. What you have is also an opinion. It’s not law but especially not the Rules of Evidence, which apply only in court. That’s the logical fallacy of appeal to law (in an inappropriate forum no less) and a quantification error. Misapplication of the law to make it sound like your opinion has a legal basis when it doesn’t will get you nothing here. You’re not an expert on the subject and you’ve admitted and demonstrated as much. Perpetually acting like one simply makes you look foolish. But, then again, that is also your right.
Some people try to stay out of jail and get shot in the back by a cop while lying down. Some people try to stay out of jail and get tazered in a mental hospital. Some people try to stay out of jail and get told they should plea bargain. Some people try to stay out of jail and they just happen to piss off a cop by accident … Or even on purpose. But pissing off a cop isn’t a crime. It’s just dangerous. Pissing off a cop while black particularly so.
In fact, as has been previously noted, pissing off any authority figure can get you in a lot of trouble, although pissing off an authority figure isn’t a crime.
Since pissing off cops and other authority figures can get you into trouble up to and including jail, we must conclude that the influence of influential people, if you will, is felt at various points in the criminal justice system. The case of Justice Thomas aside, it is, I believe, generally understood that the majority of authority figures in this country, including cops but also supreme court justices, are white.
Now, let us notice that in the 25 to 29 age group, 1 in every 10 black men is in prison, while only 1.2 in every hundred white men is in prison. 10 to 1, more or less.
I think it would be not unreasonable to assert that given that the majority of authority figures are white in this country we must assume that some of the difference in the statistics regarding white and black inmates must have to do with the statistics regarding authority figures.
To put the argument in point form:
1) negative feelings towards an individual by an authority figure increase, to whatever extent, the probability of that individual being incarcerated.
2)there is a history of racial tension in this country between white persons and black persons.
3) The majority of authority figures are white
4) Proporitional to their numbers in the general population, there are ten times more black people than white people in jail
Hence, we must acknowledge that it is almost statisitically impossilbe that some proportion of black prisoners are in prison for reasons that would not lead a white person to be in prison, regardless of whether or not either, or both, or neither, were guilty of a crime.
Therefore, I assert that it would not be unreasonable to suppose that the unfuckingbelievable difference between the white statistics and the black statistics show how fucking racist the fucking system is.
kay sieverding
People in authority shouldn’t be baited or ridiculed. If you talked like this on the street it could be considered criminal taunting behavior likely to cause a street fight. Writing bad stuff about important people or even about unimportant people isn’t allowed in Rule 404, a good rule for public discourse of any sort. It is like making a mess in the street. It’s distracting and you wouldn’t like it if someone did it to you. It discourages people from participation in democratic institutions of all sorts. Please stop.
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Another advocate for free speech or in the words of Rodney King, “Can’t we all get along?”
Well of course people try to stay out of jail, usually by keeping their conduct within legal limits. You’re entitled to stay out of jail if you don’t break the law. If you do break the law and then you stay out of jail thru witness intimidation or obstruction of justice, then you’ve committed even more crimes. Prisoners only file three types of actions: 1.) Those claiming that they are innocent and were wrongfully found guilty thru procedural violations or omitted evidence–trying to get out of jail because they are innocent or should be presumed innocent 2.) Those claiming that their sentence was too long due to procedural violations and 3.) Those claiming that the conditions in which they are kept are somehow inhumane and should be better. If you think you are going to write about prisoner litigation you need to understand what is involved. [[User:Kay Sieverding|kay sieverding]] ([[User talk:Kay Sieverding|talk]]) 20:16, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Pro_se_legal_representation_in_the_United_States&diff=244210765&oldid=244209287
As soon as someone is taken into custody, I think they should get a stack of legal documents and if possible computer access. I think they should have special prisoner ECF and have people going into the prisons to hear complaints. And if prisoners are showing evidence of spider bites, they should get rid of the spiders. Same w rats whether they call it frivolous or not. Letting prisoners have access to a healthy lifestyle will save money in the long term and also encourage good behavior on release.
Being mentally ill while black is a crime in most parts of the country.
About half of all men in prison are black.
“on New Year’s Eve 2001, 10% of all black non-Hispanic males between the ages of 25 and 29 were in prison”
http://social.jrank.org/pages/1341/Prisons-Prisoner-Demographics-Men.html
Half of all men in prison report mental health problems.
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2006/09/05/us-number-mentally-ill-prisons-quadrupled
(Obviously “self-reported mental health problems” among prisoners is a dubious statistic, but it is a commonplace that prisons have replaced mental hospitals to a large extent around the country. At least I have heard that said several times. They certainly function as drug rehab centers. Really really bad rehab centers)
I imagine that Justice Thomas’ anger is instinctive. I would also be outraged, and this is another example of the use of tasers as the default response to any situation. However, I do not think that his reaction has anything to do with his views on the lawfulness of the security guard’s actions. After all, the preservation of order, discipline and safety in public hospitals is simply not the domain of the Constitution. The incident also does not affect my view of Justice Thomas as a jurist. I remain convinced that he did not testify truthfully at his confirmation hearings, that he harbors a degree of self-loathing which influences his views on affirmative action, and that his unquestioning support of law enforcement policies is a reflection of a rather low opinion of mankind.
James,
Respect is earned, not owed.
So is derision.
If Thomas was a good man and not simply a lap dog for the distortionist wing of the Court, he might have earned some respect. As it is all he has earned, in the words an imaginary reviewer once chose in appraising an imaginary “Spinal Tap” album, is a “shit sandwich”.
People in authority shouldn’t be baited or ridiculed. If you talked like this on the street it could be considered criminal taunting behavior likely to cause a street fight. Writing bad stuff about important people or even about unimportant people isn’t allowed in Rule 404, a good rule for public discourse of any sort. It is like making a mess in the street. It’s distracting and you wouldn’t like it if someone did it to you. It discourages people from participation in democratic institutions of all sorts. Please stop.
Guys, you can point out the irony without name calling. Even if you don’t respect his views (which I don’t), you should still give him a basic level of respect because of his position.
Wow, talk about poetic, Justice. It’s about time that the conservative block got a bit of its own medicine. Now, given Scalia’s wholesale adoption of Catholic directives to populate the earth, the odds point in favor of at least one queer kid, a teen pregnancy or two, and a proverbial black sheep. Can’t wait for reality to touch–if not hammer–the Catholics on the bench–sanctimonious bastards!
The sins of the father(or uncle in this case) shall be visited upon the son.
But really you think this will make Uncle Thomas rethink his beliefs!? The key to a sociopath is that they feel no pain except their own. Because he knows this guy the sociopath can feel some pain but he will not be able to equate it to others.
Uncle Thomas will return to the bench as heartless and brain dead as before.
It’s not really a racial problem—for some reason, New Orleans security personnel feel like they have a right to physically assault people. It happenned to me— I won’t go into detail unless someone asks as it was indeed quite traumatic. If happenned at a club called Razoo’s (after I warned the guard not to touch me as I’m disabled). The guard was black and I was a 19 year old white girl, but it happens between all races. Growing up in the area, I’ve known all kinds of victims of this sort of thing.My problem with the court conservatives has always been there black and white view of government and otherauthority (not very conservative at all….). I just hope and pray that Justice Thomas’ eyes are opened to how widespread this kind of abuse is. Goodness knows Obana’s court picks aren’t likely to take a stand against “the man.”
Damn. You call that suicide intervention? Geez.
Here is that YouTube link:
BTW,Since we are talking about the Supreme Court.How’s this for an endorsement:
“2 Live Crew’s Luther Campbell, aka Uncle Luke, endorses Elena Kagan for the Supreme Court”
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/07/08/2010-07-08_2_live_crews_luther_campbell_aka_uncle_luke_endorses_elena_kagan_for_the_supreme.html
Blind Faithiness,
Your Ivory Tower comment conjures up a good ol’ 50s song; And just for Clarance T., YouTube has a R&B version of the classic by Gale Storm.
Wonders never cease to amaze me. So when the shoes on the other foot, it ain’t so nice being a person with disabilities….. I wonder how long it will take for congress to appropriate funding for mental health services. It appears that this is something that the GOP seems to think is unnecessary, well….. until it happens to one of your own…..