For civil libertarians, the decision by President Obama to bar the prosecution of Bush officials for the torture program was always a flagrant choice of politics over principle. Now a poll ratifies that decision. A poll commissioned by the Chicago Council on Global Affairs found that Americans are accepting torture in greater numbers. The study also shows a decrease in support for Israel in any military conflict and two-thirds saying that they would like the U.S. to be neutral in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
On torture, Americans still reject its use for terrorists by a margin of 56 percent to 42 percent. However, the support for torture “has increased by 6 points since 2008 and by 13 points since the ques tion was first asked in 2004.”
This has always been the concern among civil libertarians: that the Bush program would make torture less of an obvious taboo. This problem has become magnified with Obama who has shielded Bush officials from prosecution while people like Dick Cheney proudly speak publicly about their use of waterboarding. The result is an implied message that torture is allowed or tolerated under some circumstances.
The poll seems to reaffirm a famous passage from Louis Brandeis in Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438 (1928):
“Decency, security, and liberty alike demand that government officials shall be subjected to the same rules of conduct that are commands to the citizen. In a government of laws, existence of the government will be imperiled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. To declare that in the administration of the criminal law the end justifies the means — to declare that the government may commit crimes in order to secure the conviction of a private criminal — would bring terrible retribution. Against that pernicious doctrine this court should resolutely set its face.”
Source: Rawstory
bob,
It’s MKULTRA all over again.
I see what you did there.
very illogical captain
I would have thought there were a lot more dangerous things than that, tigers are pretty dangerous, as are volcanoes and even charging rhinos,
Just done a quick Google and it would seem that there are hundreds of sites listing the ten most dangerous of one type or another ranging from animals to bridges to natural phenomena,
None of them even give a mention to either a sincere ignorance or a conscientious stupidity.
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” – Martin Luther King, Jr.
FAIL(26) using a quote that is obviously about himself DOH!!!
FAIL(27) Ignorant
FAIL(28) Liar
FAIL(29) Pedant
FAIL(30) Being you
BIL:
Having lacerated to pieces every serpentine argument, I respectfully suggest you need not concern yourself with every twitching convulsion of their dying arguments.
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” – Martin Luther King, Jr.
“Blessed is the man, who having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact.” – George Eliot
I have this one stored,
quite appropriate
Gyges,
I never thought of that but of course, you’re right!
Blouise,
Pretty much any time you get a large concentration of breweries, it’s the the water.
Gyges,
It’s a great place and their brews are consistently good … we have dozens of small breweries around Cleveland. For some reason Cleveland has always been a beer brewing town. It’s fun to go on a Brewery Crawl party … it takes a long weekend!
Lottakatz,
That would be my guess
Blouise,
Unfortunately, anything Great Lakes is pretty hard to find out here, but what little I’ve had has all been tasty.
Bakersfield:
***I aint going no place far, so I spend long period surfin and contributin here an there,***
***We as a group started postin***
To Blouise:
“Well, good to see you aren’t worried about posting from a government supplied IP.” … ***we were given this access an they can take it away, they have freedom of choice and power of control – sayin that, if they made an attempt to sancion, then that would make an interesting read and might even appear on here…***
_________
Got it. Group, limited mobility, government IP, not in control of posting privileges = Prison or other government run institution. Got it.
Elaine,
“These fears appear to have been prescient, as in July 2005 British Muslim extremists apparently radicalized by the war in Iraq detonated bombs throughout London.”
Bush did us such harm … I suspect time will reveal even more … my house guest (British citizen) literally hates him
no, please don’t offend “theregulars” they use big words which really confuse a brother
When one has nothing to say one shoud say……nothing
Buddha,
I think I’m going to have to take you out to the woodshed!
😉
The Koch brothers are generous folk and are merely doing their best to keep this country out of the hands of liberalprogressivesocialisticfascistnaziMarxists.
**********
Finally…some declassified government documents to tell us what we already knew years ago!
From Think Progress (9/23/2010)
Newly Declassified Documents Show Bush Administration Looked For Excuse To Start War In Iraq In Nov. 2001
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/09/23/documents-bush-iraq-november/
The Bush administration has long maintained they had not decided to invade Iraq until the days before it actually began and that they did “everything” they could to “avoid war in Iraq.” President Bush even claimed that the “American people can know that every measure has been taken to avoid war.”
Yet there is evidence that the Bush administration, from its very early days, was actively plotting to go to war with the Arab country. From a British memo that noted that “Bush made it clear the US intended to invade whether or not there was a second resolution and even if UN inspectors found no evidence of a banned Iraqi weapons programme” to memoirs by administration members Richard Clarke and Paul O’Neill, there have been numerous disclosures that strongly suggest that the Bush administration was plotting a war against Iraq while recognizing it was not a threat to the United States.
Now, with the help of a Freedom of Information Act request, the National Security Archive has obtained a newly declassified document that details talking points that emerged from a meeting between Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and CENTCOM Commander General Tommy Franks in November 2001.
The talking points mainly revolve around the logistical planning for a war in Iraq. They detail the “decapitation” of the Iraqi government by U.S. forces and make regime change the goal. Interestingly, they already mention U.S. forces “coming out of Afghanistan” to join the invasion of Iraq. Yet the most alarming part of the document is a bullet point titled, “How start?” (which is a discussion that actually appears after the planning of the entire war). The participants in the Rumsfeld-Frank meeting discussed possible ways to provoke a conflict with Iraq, including an attack by Saddam Hussein against the Kurdish north, the U.S. discovering a “Saddam connection” to 9/11 or the anthrax attacks, or a dispute over WMD inspections. It appears from the language of the talking points that the Bush administration had already decided to go to war with Iraq and was looking for an opportunity to invade:
• How start?
• Saddam moves against Kurds in north?
• US discovers Saddam connection to Sept. 11 attack or to anthrax attacks?
• Dispute over WMD inspections?
• Start now thinking about inspection demands.
Another document obtained by the National Security Archive shows that the Bush State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research created an assessment of international support for a war against Iraq in December 2001. It noted that the “UK’s Blair would publicly support a US decision to bomb Iraq but would face considerable criticism.” It worried that going to war in Iraq could “bring radicalization of British Muslims, the great majority whom opposed the September 11 attacks but are increasingly restive about what they see as an anti-Islamic campaign.” These fears appear to have been prescient, as in July 2005 British Muslim extremists apparently radicalized by the war in Iraq detonated bombs throughout London.
W=c,
Usually banjo music just makes my teeth hurt, but I’ll have to say the arrangement works. I always appreciate a creative re-working of a soundly composed song. Thanks.
Gyges,
I am not a big beer drinker though we go the Great Lakes Brewing Company all the time. Their Great Lakes Christmas Ale is one of our seasonal favorites. The reason I commented on the brew you mentioned was because one of my friends talks about it all the time. My beer of choice is Beamish Irish Stout and I always have some on hand.