Illinois Court Rules Man Can Sue Over Deceptive Use of Sperm By Girlfriend To Impregnate Herself

We have been following a series of paternity cases (here and here and here and here) where courts have rejected claims of lack of consent or knowledge by a parent in forcing child support payments. I just ran over a case that, while now a bit dated, is remarkable. The case involves a Chicago doctor who was forced to pay child support after his girlfriend, without his knowledge, saved sperm from oral sex and arranged to be impregnated with it. The case came to public attention after an appellate court ruled that Dr. Richard O. Phillips could sue Dr. Sharon Irons for emotional distress in the case.

Here are the facts:

During their relationship, the parties discussed the possibility of having children only after they married. Plaintiff informed defendant he did not wish to have children prior to marriage, and intended to use a condom if and when they engaged in sexual intercourse. Defendant understood and agreed. During the entire course of their relationship, the parties engaged in intimate sexual acts three times, with two of those times occurring on the same date. Vaginal penetration never occurred; the parties engaged only in acts of oral sex. Defendant told plaintiff she did not want to have sexual intercourse due to her menses. On or around February 19, 1999, and March 19, 1999, defendant “intentionally engaged in oral sex with [plaintiff] so that she could harvest [his] semen and artificially inseminate herself,” and “did artificially inseminate herself.”

Plaintiff’s complaint alleged further that in May of 1999, defendant confessed to plaintiff that she still was married to her former husband, Dr. Adebowale Adeleye. She told plaintiff she planned to get a divorce, and showed him a “Petition for Dissolution of Marriage,” which was filed on May 20, 1999. In the petition, defendant swore she was not pregnant. The parties’ relationship terminated in May of 1999, upon plaintiff learning defendant was not divorced.

On November 21, 2000, defendant filed a “Petition to Establish Paternity and Other Relief” against plaintiff, claiming she and plaintiff had a sexual relationship eight to ten months before the birth of defendant’s daughter, Serena, on December 1, 1999. DNA tests have confirmed plaintiff is Serena’s biological father.

In the circuit court below, Kathy M. Flanagan ruled that Irons conduct was not so extreme and outrageous to sustain a legal action by Phillips. That court was reversed after the appellate court ruled that Irons “deceitfully engaged in sexual acts, which no reasonable person would expect could result in pregnancy, to use plaintiff’s sperm in an unorthodox, unanticipated manner yielding extreme consequences.”

While ruling that the emotional distress claim could go forward, the court ruled that he could not allege theft because the sperm technically belonged to Dr. Irons. Phillips alleged that Irons committed “calculated, profound personal betrayal” when she used the sperm to produce offspring. He found out about the deception two years after the child was born and tests confirmed that he was the father after paternity tests. He was ordered to pay $800 a month in child support.

What is interesting is that it is intentional infliction of emotional distress as opposed to negligent infliction. To meet that standard, he must show (1) extreme and outrageous conduct; (2) intention to inflict severe emotional distress, or know that there is at least a high probability that it will cause severe emotional distress; and (3) severe emotional distress. The court found:

Under these circumstances, even if defendant intended to accomplish only conception and procreation, she knew there was at least a high probability that her manner of so doing would inflict severe emotional distress on plaintiff. According to plaintiff, defendant was aware of his desire to have children only after marriage. Further, plaintiff believed defendant could not become pregnant, not only due to the nature of the sexual acts, but because he believed she was infertile at the time as a result of her menstrual cycle. Months later, however, defendant informed plaintiff he fathered her child. From these facts, if proved, it may be inferred reasonably that defendant knew manipulating plaintiff into unwittingly conceiving a child out of wedlock would inflict severe emotional distress. Further, contrary to defendant’s assertion, plaintiff is not claiming the act of filing the paternity suit itself caused him severe emotional distress; it was the result of defendant’s actions in their entirety.

The court agreed with Irons that she could not be charged with conversion since “there was no agreement that the original deposit would be returned upon request, or where the transaction did not create a bailment, a claim for conversion cannot be sustained.”

I also found the court’s holding on fraudulent misrepresentation to be interesting. It rejected the claim because ‘[]the tort of fraudulent misrepresentation historically has been limited to cases involving business or financial transactions where plaintiff has suffered a pecuniary harm . . . it is an economic tort under which one may recover only monetary damages. Neurosurgery, 339 Ill. App. 3d at 186. Therefore, plaintiff may not recover on allegations of physical and emotional distress.” However, this fraud did cause financial harm given the paternity award against Phillips.

I also do not understand the basis for child support when the pregnancy was achieved artificially and without his consent or knowledge.

I have not been able to locate the current status of this case after the remand. The last published opinion was Phillips v. Irons, 354 Ill. App. 3d 1164, 2005 Ill. App. LEXIS 1807 (Ill. App. Ct. 1st Dist. 2005)

Jonathan Turley

112 thoughts on “Illinois Court Rules Man Can Sue Over Deceptive Use of Sperm By Girlfriend To Impregnate Herself

  1. Wow! I had not seen this case either. I am not sure that I agee with the emotional distress claim. What does that say to the child when he or she is old enough to read this nonsense? That is one crazy “couple”. It amazes me that someone would go to those lengths to get pregnant with a specific party. Even doctors can be wacky as hell, I guess.

  2. Come on this is the best and worst decision that I have ever seen…what smacks as unfair is the defendant doctors moral character to practice as she has indicated her propensity towards deceitfulness…on the other hand….when to you expect this to happen….usually…maybe I should consult Charlie when he is available….

    I think that the court of appeals got this one right and its is unfortunate for the child….the real victim…I hope that the father does take an active and interesting role with his child…

    What a lot of folks miss its not just child support that is open for discussion but inheritance….since the child has been ruled the product of the act….

    This is just plain assed crazy….

  3. It appears from earlier coverage that the mother disputed the father’s account regarding the extent of their relationship and how she became pregnant. Just thought I’d throw that in, as the discussion seems to assume the father’s allegations are true. Of course, this doesn’t affect the legal analysis since the court had to accept them as true in considering the motion to dismiss.

  4. blhlls,

    Assume that they had sexual intercourse…was a condom used? If so, why was there the need for the artificial insemination…I think the court struck a balance and placed each on a pari-delicto basis…the suit is for emotional distress, I believe…he is obligated to pay the support….assume that he is successful… in his suit…the question comes down to will be step up to the plate and be a father? Regardless of the outcome of this suit?

  5. rafflaw,

    I may be wrong…but I presume that this is more about control than it is about the money…it appears that both for what ever reason are selfish…and in it for only immediate gratification…not thinking about the long term ramifications….

    I had a client onetime that was married to a female doctor…they had children…the issue was not about support…but visitation….she did not want my client to have visitation…after 2 years of patience of the judge and some client control the judge ordered the doctor to jail for contempt…90 days…as she was being taken off to jail…the doctor said to the judge you can’t do this…I am a doctor…the judge said…I just did and for her to think about a change of custody for the children as my client was awarded full primary custody…and she should use this time to think of what she can do to promote visitation….

    The second part of the order did not stand up because it was not properly in front of the court as he had limited the show cause to visitation…..

  6. Which is why I regard common law marriage as the only valid marriage.

    As I understand that Bill Clinton may have semenly tried to demonstrate, when the transfer happened by physical consent of Dr. Phillips and Dr. Irons, they became married by mutual consensual contract.

    Which is why common marriages need to be deemed perfectly valid.

    Which is why polygamy and polyandry need to be legal!

    Did I really write that?


    Who did?

    Oh. Sorry.

    Quick! Exorcism needed!

    Evil One, begone from me!

    Bye, bye…

    Whew! That was close!

    Better, now.

    I again have control of my fingers doing the typing…

    Not again!

    Does the above iron out the problem of the thing in the thing at the other end from the usual thing?


    Better to be a planarian?

  7. ‘the sperm technically belonged to Dr. Irons’


    kinda makes the issue of consent a little clearer….no?

    according to the facts…this man was very careful to lay out the sexual groundrules, declare his intent regarding pregnancy, and did not engage in vaginal intercourse. The SHE however, took great and independant advantageof the situation putting both the partner and the child at great personal loss.

    so, this fits my definition of theft and rape…

    she’s just creepy and I hope child protective services are keeping a close eye…

  8. “I also do not understand the basis for child support when the pregnancy was achieved artificially and without his consent or knowledge.”

    It is called strict liabiliy in family court, with decades of statutes and case law supporting this view. Deception is irrelevant to the issue of paternity and support. Even raping a minor male does not excuse him from financial obligations. Except for sperm donation, a male is responsible for support when the use of his sperm results in a child. Child support statutes are based on the financial situation of the parents and the needs of the child, not the personal agreements of two people.

  9. I’ve been resisting the urge. Seriously. It hasn’t been easy. I really have considering this was my initial reaction to this story. It wasn’t easy and I was hoping AY would go for the joke, but nooooooo! If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself. However, I can no longer resist, so many apologies in advance. I am a crude, rude and socially unacceptable laughing green man and if the Prof wants to edit out this comment I completely understand.

    This story just goes to prove nice girls really do swallow.

    Oh yeah.

    I went there.

    Again, most humble apologies for any offense or emotional distress this joke may have caused. However, it is in the end just a joke. I mean no disrespect for nice girls. Or naughty girls for that matter. Girls are some of the best people I know. And they generally smell good too.

    Please feel free to hurl insults as you deem fit.

    One lives to be of service.

  10. AY,
    I think calling them selfish is putting it mildly! That was some case that you had. Just one more reason why I avoided family law cases other than adoptions!

  11. As Dr. Irons gave Dr. Phillips no consideration in return for the sperm, they were a gift, hence the property of Dr. Irons to do with as she pleased.

    However, the gift from Dr. Phillips came with an undisclosed cost, and, for neglecting to fully and accurately inform Dr. Irons of the undisclosed cost of the gift, Dr. Phillips, a professional, through his negligence is fully liable; the remedy for his professional negligence being his paying child support.

    And the law works as intended.

    Justice accomplished.

  12. Blouise,

    I take it that you find this matter hard to swallow….which I was always assured was the bird of love….oh well…it would be hard to just take it and shove it when it happens this way…

  13. rafflaw,

    Thats ok I have never been a fan of kiss and tell….I understand….never complain, never explain….or don’t ask….don’t tell….

  14. From the urban dictionary:


    any person, specifically a women, who hatch diabolical schemes in order to advance their personal interest, aka “get” and “play games” with multiple men.

  15. Anonymously Yours
    1, February 1, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    My eyesight is getting as bad as my hearing….at first I thought I read…..yum….


  16. Buddha,

    I am sorry….I missed that one….well it did come later and is still dribble….not to be wasted….is it the bird of true happiness or love that is named the swallow…..

  17. The law that makes the plaintiff responsible for the child in this case, and perhaps any case where deception is used, leaves me with mixed feelings. Once this legal view becomes enforced in even the most egregious circumstances, as in this case, isn’t it a law that mandates males always use a birth control device?

    I don’t have a problem with that wisdom when used voluntarily and would insist on it in fact, but to say, use a condom or don’t have sex because the law won’t protect you from deception that has a long-term, life altering and expensive result is not IMO a good public policy. I see SOME equivalency, SOME similarity, with the attempt to redefine rape for the purpose of Federal payment for women’s healthcare. Are not both sex’s being ‘punished’ for the consequences of acts which were not a matter of consent?

  18. Lotta,
    We don’t know as a fact that what the Man said is accurate. The woman disputes his claim of no sexual intercourse so he may just be a liar or she may be the liar. If the woman is telling the truth, the male isn’t being punished. I understand your point about deception and if it is true than maybe the deceived party should not be “punished” as you say. However, when the deception causes a child to be born wouldn’t it be the child who is being punished if the law does not mandate some responsibility from both biological parents?

  19. @rafflaw You do not see the emotional distres??!! YOU DO NOT SEE THE EMOTIONAL DISTRESS?! Let me know if you’re avaliable so I can lie to you and make you a father against your will, so I can ask for child support will impact you financilly for years to come, being the monthly reminder that I manipulated you and cause you to bring a human being to this world against your wishes. It seems like an quick way to make a buck.

  20. Natasha,
    You are making an assumption that the biological father is telling the truth and the mother is not. What are you basing your claim on? Usually in these situations, it takes two to tango. And doesn’t the child get punished no matter who is tellng the truth? By the way, I am not available and I have been happily married for over 36 years. Better luck next time.

  21. It would be interesting to see how the family court found this man to be the “father” of this child. The only way a man could protect himself from involuntary “fatherhood” and payment of $800 per month child support would be to use a condom even in oral sex and make sure he took the condom and contents with him. Ridiculous.

    It is true that family courts bend over backwards to find someone liable for child support “in the best interests of the child,” but I believe this is taking it beyond the limits.

  22. @ Rafflaw

    I agree that there is probably more to this story than the facts presented in this motion to dismiss, where, as you know, they have to assume the facts alleged are true. Who knows what the real story is.

  23. Rafflaw, I assumed that the facts quoted by the Professor were the court’s finding in rendering the decision. If those are the findings of fact of the court then I am disturbed that an act of fraud can be used to assign responsibility for the product of that fraud to the victim of the fraud.

    It might be in society’s interest to have an economic expense resulting from the fraud (the child) supported by enough relevant parties to insure that none of the burden falls on the state. It may likewise be in the best interest of the child. Even so, I’m not one to put the need of the child above the simple justice of the victim to not be made to pay for their victimization as if they were a willing participant.

    That is getting very close to making victims of rape pay for their victimization by prohibiting abortion and the right to give up the child for adoption.

  24. @Isabel Darcy

    It is true that family courts bend over backwards to find someone liable for child support “in the best interests of the child,” but I believe this is taking it beyond the limits.

    It has been this way for decades. Except for state sanctioned severing of parental rights (such as anonymous sperm donation), the designated father is financially obligated to pay child support. It does not matter if the father is a 12 year old boy raped by his teacher; a paitent in a hospital where a nurse offers oral stimulation and collects the sperm for personal use; or a man passed out at a party that has his penis made erect by manual stimulation, then inserted into a woman’s vagina. All are real cases where the father was forced to pay for support.

    States generally assign parental rights if a man openly acknowledges an out of wedlock child as his and supports the child; the biological status is irrelevant if he later decides to end support.

    This is not about men’s rights or feminism, it is about a child. A man should never put himiself in a position where his sperm could be used without his knowledge. The best defense is a vasectomy.

  25. I also do not understand the basis for child support when the pregnancy was achieved artificially and without his consent or knowledge.

    Best interests of the child, not the parents.

    A similar fact pattern I learned 25 years ago in law school with Frank Serpico, who was duped (“I’m on the pill”) into impregnating a woman. He fought against paying child support and lost.

  26. Kay,


    Child support is about supporting the CHILD, and he consented to sex (albeit that it was paid for).

    There’s no law anywhere that says if you pay for sex you don’t have to support the child that came out of it.

  27. What I don’t understand is why the woman is not being tried for rape. If the man tricked the woman into wearing a condom and then secretly took it off to impregnate her, wouldn’t there be charges? What if she said to stop intercourse but he continued for 5-10 seconds afterwards? It seems to me that she continued sexual intercourse after he had withdrawn his consent and in a manner to which he did not agree.

    Also, what is the legal definition of “best interests of the child”? How does this policy fare under the 14th Amendment? Shouldn’t the court have to prove that the child is better off as a result of its decisions?

  28. That is getting very close to making victims of rape pay for their victimization

    Lottakatz you seem to have missed the Jane C. Crane case where this older woman committed statuary rape on a boy and then successfully sued to have the boy pay her child support. As we speak the family is seeking to have the child taken from its mother and given to the boy and his parents to raise…

    Read about it here:

  29. errr. I see that the article is dated 2008, so I must have been thinking of a more recent case. Rest assured it does happen though.

  30. The female doctor is wrong for suing him for child support. She knew this man did not want children before marriage. To take his sperm and artifically inseminate herself is wrong. To expect this man to be a father to this child knowing he did want to be a father before marriage is wrong of the mother and the court system. He has every right not to want to be part of her life. I hope he does but he should not judged if he don’t want to be. Her mother will have to deal with her daughter when she starts asking why my daddy was not part of my life. This woman did for her own selfish reason.

  31. It is true that family courts bend over backwards to find someone liable for child support “in the best interests of the child,” but I believe this is taking it beyond the limits.

    i totally agree with you. far as i can see it’s theft by deceit. 1. she apparently DID NOT WANT TO HAVE VAGINAL SEX WITH HIM by claiming to be on her menses.

    3. she knew she wasnt available for marriage when they engaged in oral sex.
    4. she committed adultery and in some countries even civilized ones it’s punishable by jail or death.
    5. the interests of the child are NOT WITH THE MOTHER since it took her 2 yrs to even inform him of the child. which means she robbed him yet again of 2 yrs of the child life and being apart of the milestones that comes with those years.

    it would serve her right if he sued her for full custody of the child as it seems to me she is a unfit mother and there is no telling what the child will suffer at her hands

  32. Well this is just bull crap. She chose to have the child all by herself so she should pay to raise the child all by herself.

    The father has a basic human right to autonomy which she has taken unilaterally taken from him very much as a male rapist might might take a womens’ choice not to have a child away. In that circumstance she would be entitled to an abortion under the principle of autonomy and so he should be entitled to a “legal abortion” since, plainly, he cannot compel a physical one.

  33. @joweb: The point is that now a child is born. A child who needs food, clothing, education, medicine, etc. Our legal system says the people responsible for bringing a child into the world are the ones who have the obligation to care for that child. We can’t go around making exceptions based on the extraordinary circunstances of one case. If that happens, we can set a very dangerous precedent: any man might start taking the mother of his child to court, saying things like ”She said she was on the pill”. And who will know if he’s lying or not, while the case drags in the courts, and a child doesn’t get the support s/he needs to meet their needs?

    A man who enters a physical relationship with a woman knows there’s a chance of pregnancy resulting from that relationship. Since an eventual pregnancy will not happen in his body, he knows he has no means to stop it. Therefore, he must be willing to take responsability for a child that comes into this world as a direct result of his actions.

  34. @contra: “Our legal system says the people responsible for bringing a child into the world are the ones who have the obligation to care for that child.”

    And the mother is entirely responsible. The man isn’t, because he had his sperm stolen from him without his consent.

    If someone breaks into your home and steals a baseball bat, and then uses that to beat somebody, are you responsible? After all, by owning a house, being robbed is always a risk you have to take, right? It’s the height of absurdity.

    He is a victim of fraud and theft, not a willing participant. Any more than a woman who is raped and gets pregnant from it.

  35. This is why the West will fall. Men will simply allow it to be destroyed. I hope women are ready for front line infantry. Why should men defend a society that only benefits women?

  36. @KW: I’m so sorry for your suffering, sweety. You wanna a hug? I would buy you a cookie, but I can’t afford to spend money on spoiled clueless mysoginists since I make less money than them for doing exactly the same job.

  37. The law exempts sperm donors from parental and support obligations. The law can also do the same thing in this case, or cases of male minors being raped. It is interesting that the law refuses to do so in the latter case. l would suggest that the reason is purely due to gender politics. Follow which gender benefits from these laws and rulings.

  38. @contraoestatutodonascituro
    LOL, the reason you make less money than any man for working the same job is because those men make more sacrifices, are better workers, don’t miss as many days, work longer hours etc., etc., etc. This whole wage gap myth has been debunked time and time again. You need to quit listening to misandric women’s studies professors that make shit up out of thin air. Take a look at the Consad Report sometime, this might shed some light on the whole issue of the so-called wage gap. Also, try applying logic to your argument just once. In a day and age where companies are doing everything they can to save money, don’t you think if companies could get by with just hiring an all female staff (because they can pay them less money based on your thinking) they would? Think of how much money they would save. Game, set, match, you lose again clown. Put that in your man-hating pipe and smoke it. What’s next you want to debate your made up 1 in 4 stat too????? Your contempt for men is astounding but not surprising, typical Western woman. Take the red pill.

  39. @Cdub: Why is it that, when a woman points to evidences of sexism in the world, some mysoginistic clown always comes up with ”Man-hating, man-hating!” Guess what, moron: just because I don’t live in your bubble where everything is perfect and there’s no disparity between genders, doesn’t mean I hate men…just the stupid ones like you who always have this knee-jerk reaction whenever women point out that, hey, ppl of your gender have been opressing ppl of my gender for ages. Now, how abt you put some logic into your argument, and face the fact that, if a woman finds statistics that point to the fact that women have worse than men when in the same circunstances…logic dictates that the FACTS are true, rather than it’s all due to some ”man-hating” bias.You sound like a conspiracy theorist. Why listen to the facts when you can just say it’s all the fault of those mean, mean researchers who hate you cause you have a penis?

  40. @jersey: Yes, all those women who rape men and then get impregnated by them are benefited from the ”man-hating” judicial system…cause we see SO MANY of those cases that, obviousy, lawmakers not thinking of doing smth abt them is due to a sexist bias.

  41. > if a woman finds statistics that point to the fact that women have it worse than men…

    you don’t need statistics for this – women naturally have it worse than men. they’re simply not as smart or as capable as men – this is why you see society treating women like children, because emotionally and intellectually THEY ARE. it’s tough being a kid.

    it’s easy being an adult – too bad women never find this out.

  42. contraoestatutodonascituro, you sound very bitter. Some man must have really hurt you. Not all men are like that. You’ll never attract a husband with your kind of attitude.

  43. What evidence? You have none. Name your source. I offered the Consad Report
    Coincidently enough it was removed from the Department of Labor’s website once President Obama took office. Proof that just because he is a man does not mean he caters to men’s needs; rather he tries to cater to women’s needs. Men are taught to protect women, and often times at their own cost, as you see Obama doing here. This most likely has something to do with his feminist overlords telling him to take down the findings because they did not support their politics.

    Men have not oppressed women. You see back before feminism came along and reared its ugly head, people had roles in society. Men, since they are physically stronger and generally smarter lead and built civilizations, while women since they are the ones who bore children were primarily the homemakers and childcare workers. This is just simply what worked for thousands and thousands of years. Women were confined to their roles, as well as men being confined to theirs. Now don’t get all huffy and puffy when I tell you that men were smarter. They were. Where are the female Einsteins, the female Galellios, female Pattons, etc.? However, while there are more men at the top, there are also more men at the bottom, and women generally round out the middle. Of course, there are smart women, and some dumb women, but men simply fall in greater numbers on each side of the bell curve where women generally fall in the middle.

    If anyone is having a knee-jerk reaction it is you. You claimed you don’t make as much money as men because of sexism. I gave physical evidence that this is most likely not the case. Instead of giving me any sources/evidence you bitch and moan that I called you a man-hater, which you are by the way. Your contempt for men in your writing is a dead giveaway, and pop culture only encourages your hate. It’s not too late though. You can actually try and not be a victim for once and actually read something for a change instead of just listening to whatever Oprah, Obama, Joe Biden, Rachel Maddow, Keith Olbermann, etc. tell you to believe.

    I’m still waiting for you to find statistics about how women have things so much worse. You claimed you had statistics, and yet you have offered nothing. I never said the reason women make less than men was because women are man-haters. I said they make less because of personal choices, and only called you in particular a man-hater. Did you even read my post or did you just shoot fire out of your ass because what I said pissed you off? I’ll say it again, now think hard on this one, if a Company could get by with paying women less than men, why then wouldn’t said company only hire all women? They could save a ton of money this way. This doesn’t even resonate with you?

    Again to summarize the report on the wage gap, while yes a gap in the raw wages between men and women exist it is not because of discrimination. Further investigation reveals by and large it is due to people’s personal choices. You have to understand that a lot of this still has to do with gender roles. Men are still looked to be bread winners whether women want to admit it or not, as such they are more willing to work longer hours, more dangerous professions (the death professions that pay higher wages), take the risks to start businesses, basically make more sacrifices to further their careers. Women by and large do not date down, so if a man wants a mate he has to make some money, or at least more than her (you know what I’m talking about here, your hypergamy kicks in, where are all the good men bullshit). Women are more likely to choose careers that allow them to take more time off for family/childcare duties, that they don’t have as big of a risk dying on the job (a secretary makes less money than an Ironworker), miss time from work because of pregnancy (leave and come back to the workforce more often).

    I could go on and on, but I really don’t think you will give my post a 2nd look, you are too busy wrapped up in being a make believe victim.

  44. @Cdub: You really are thick if you talk abt gender roles and don’t realize their very existence is opressive. So, forcing ppl to be the sole breadwinners and risk death in dangerous jobs and wars because they had a penis, and forcing women to be economically dependent on men (which is just great when you wanna leave an abusive husband, by the way. Is just great when you wanna do anything, really. Just ask permission from the man who supports you, cause you can’t do anything on your own) and risking death by pregnancy and labor (which was even a bigger risk in those times than it is now) because they had a womb ”worked”? Yeah, I’m sure it was just a bundle of joy for everyone involved.

    You know why women ”choose” careers that allow them to take more time off for chidlcare duties? Cause they’re expected to be responsible for all the childcare. No one complains if a man doesn’t participate in their child’s raising in any way, as long as they bring money home (in fact, a man who shows interest in his children is deemed a great father while a woman is seen as just performing her duty). In fact, a lot of women have to struggle to balance family and work, or give up working all together, cause they lack acess to contraceptives and to safe abortions…thanks to women-hating legislators who don’t want women to be able to have an enjoyable sex life without the risk of getting pregnant (and don’t even tell me this is ”make believe”, a republican candidate just said last week that he wants to defund contraception because it allows ppl to have non-reproductive sex) So it’s not that women are choosing to balance family and work, and be seen as a potential ”risk” for their companies because of their uterus…you said yourself it has to do with gender roles. You saying ”oh, it’s just because women have to take care of their families and because their pregnancies make them earn less money” is only an effective rebutal if I was saying that the only reason women make less than men is because there’s an evil conspiracy of employers determined to pay less to anyone with a vagina.

    Oh, and ever heard of smth called the Walmart class-action suit? Flat out wage and promotion discrimination does exist.

    Where were the female Einsteins?! You do realize it was a looong time before colleges would even allow women to study there, right? And you do realize that it was a woman who figured out how to split the atom?

    Where are my statistics? I don’t have to do your research for you. It’s not my job to educate you, specially when you’ve shown you’re incapable of processing simple information without your victim goggles (I point gender disparity and all the sudden I’m a ”man-hater”? Sure I’ll have a serious discussion abt statistics with you, you’re such a reasonable person) But I don’t need to show you statistics, you already know what I’m going to show you since you obviously know which ppl I admire. (Oprah? Are you fucking serious?)

    You’re waiting for ”statistics” to show women have much worse? When was the last time you didn’t do something/go somewhere for fear of being raped? And, last time I looked, men’s lives weren’t considered less worthy than that of a blastocyte (I’m not even talking abt choice. I’m talking abt bills to allow hospitals to refuse life-saving abortions and nonsense like that. Goes to show you how much society values women). When was the last time someone told you the way you dress allows ppl to violate your body? Yeah…didn’t think so.

  45. You are kidding right? The picture you paint is based on lies and bullshit. Women were not the chattel you described them out to be. You act as if all men were rapists, murders, killers, abusers, etc. If that were the case modern civilization never would have taken hold, too many men would have been busy pillaging the countryside in search of more women to plunder. This just is not the case, instead the vast majority of history indicates that men where providers and protectors of women, out there working their asses off to provide for their families, and willing to die for their women sometimes for her honor alone. Simply put women were not strong enough to survive on their own without men. Women cannot compete with men. Men will outperform women, that is why women were not ‘allowed’ into most professions. If we truly did away with all the bullshit affirmative action laws, and let the chips fall where they may, men would out produce women 10 times to one every time. Your problem is with biology not with man. It’s called penis envy, and women like you need to start embracing feminity and quit trying to be men already, you will never be.
    How many women truly give their husbands the opportunity to be a child care provider? The vast majority of women simply don’t believe that men can be as good of parents as women. And more often than not these women who marry a stay-at-home dad end up losing all respect and interest in him, he becomes a beta in her eyes (there goes women’s hypergamous nature again). No one complains if a man doesn’t take interest in raising a child? Where have you been, all we hear in the media is the shaming of deadbeat dads and how irresponsible men are, on top of that single motherhood is glorified. It’s a cardinal sin to question the plaque of our society that is irresponsible single mothers and lay blame at her feet as well. It’s unheard of, because everything, always, is a man’s fault. Like a poster said before me, women can’t be held responsible because they are seen as fucking children in the eyes of society.
    Boo fucking who about women having to struggle and give up working to raise their family. This is all a result of feminism. You can’t have it all. The increase of female workers into the workforce, has pitted women against men, competing for the same job. That means there are less men out there that can take care of women who don’t make as much, because that man is out of work because of a woman. On top of that this has driven up the cost of damn near everything; very few couples can survive on only one spouse’s salary. In other words almost all couples have to work anymore, and childcare is being outsourced. I guess motherhood isn’t very important after all. Sorry but those are the breaks people have to make choices in life, and having children is becoming too expensive for everyone involved. How many men do you think even have the opportunity to be a stay-at-home dad? I mean how many women would give a guy the time of day if said he was looking for a woman to work and he could raise the family? My point is women seem to have choices, and men have next to none. Women can work, work and have kids, work part-time with kids, or just stay home with kids. Men can work, work, and work. Oh and how tortuous that must be to actually have to spend time with your children instead of being confined to some job you hate that you have to keep going to so your family isn’t put out on the street.

    So women shouldn’t be held accountable for their actions because in order for them to have ‘enjoyable sex lives’ they need to have irresponsible sex? I mean if they cannot afford the consequences of their actions isn’t that a tad bit irresponsible. By the way women have many more safe sex options than men. How come there is no male pill? I know plenty of men that would love to be able to have access to a male birth control pill. What do you mean defund contraception? If it is state funded contraceptive use then I’m all for it, let people be responsible for their own decisions. If they don’t want a baby, go buy the fucking contraceptive you need, it’s not that fucking hard.
    My rebuttal is effective because your conspiracy is exactly that, you believe that there is a conspiracy out there holding women back, and pushing men ahead. I speak of people’s personal fucking choices! If you want to make more money there is a better chance you will get paid more if you have a skill set that is valuable, for instance like a degree in the hard sciences as opposed to a degree in the liberal arts. Too many women go into desk job careers and wonder why they don’t make as much as a guy who never went to college and is something like a heavy equipment operator. I mean that’s obviously sexist, he doesn’t deserve to make more, she went to college so she is smarter, and should make more. Economics dictates which professions are more lucrative. The more risk involved the greater the payoff. You still provide me with no concrete proof that women are paid less than men when you compare people with relatively the same job experience, schooling, skill set, etc. Did you stop to think about the reason they did the Consad Study in the first place? It is because people were concerned about why women were making less across the board? People wanted to know if there was sexism going on. I know hard to believe in this society that is so obviously against women. And time and time again there is no definitive proof.
    Yes I heard of the Wal-Mart scam lawsuit. That was bullshit from the get go. A bunch of old fat-assed women thinking they are owed something just because they own a vagina. By the way the court rejected the suit. Over a million women on average did not merit the same pay, or the same rates of promotion, and they were all hired and promoted as individuals, by individual supervisors. Maybe, just maybe, men are better workers by and large, or do they feel an increased need or mandate to excel at work? Yeah, how dare I ask such a question, go call your femnazi thought police. The court accepted Wal-Mart’s argument that the female employees at different jobs, in 3,400 different stores nationwide, with different supervisors did not have enough in common to be linked together in a single class action lawsuit. So all the supervisors (even if any of them were female) would be working in unison with the eternal male to keep women down. Some advice for these women, work harder, improve yourself, stop blaming men for your own inadequacies and deficiencies. Don’t go along with the lie that some man somewhere tripped you up, because we didn’t and you know we didn’t, so don’t lie for free loot, that is dishonorable. The courts said the idiots that brought about the class action lawsuit can still file individual lawsuits, provided they can prove discrimination, which to my knowledge they have not been able to. Once again you are still arguing that there is an evil conspiracy against women by bringing up the Wal-Mart case.
    You do realize that there were universities for women right? That some women went to University, just like some men went to university. Not all men were able to go to University. You do realize that men founded modern, chemistry, physics, biology, etc., etc., etc………..I know the penis envy really gets you there doesn’t it.

    I know you are a feminist, and feminists don’t need those yucky things called statistics. Eww gross, that’s so patriarchal, what a slime ball asking me for statistics. Typical man. Doesn’t he know he’s just supposed to nod and accept the fact that he is an oppressor and I am entitled to all his shit.

    In the history of the world there has been no greater a privilege class than today’s modern Western woman. Victim goggles, you women have made lifetimes out of being victims. Its high tide more and more of you shut the fuck up and listen to the ills that men are dealing with. It’s such a zero sum game for you all. We are bigger victims, whah, whah, whah, listen to us. Oh men might have issues but that doesn’t matter until ours are taken care of. You do realize when men lose, women lose too. Turns out a fish really does need a bicycle. You see the species can’t survive without one or the other. All the lesbian clowns in Hollywood, media, etc. are going against basic biology. It may be all fun and games, but it’s all bullshit. Two lesbians cannot have a baby, never could, never can, never will. I guess you are just stuck with us.
    You are feminist, therefore a leftist, so it’s not so far off that I might think you would look to any of the clowns I named like Oprah, or Maddow, etc. Do I need to name more leftist fucktards for you like Dworkin, Brownmiller, Fienstien, Pelosi, Steinem, MacKinnon or some other miserable pile of cytoplasm. I know how you think, and I know exactly what I’m dealing with. Feminism will be looked back upon the same way we look back upon the Third Reich with udder contempt and hate. Maybe it’s time you got on the right side of history.

    When was the last time you went out and had consensual sex with someone only to later be arrested for rape, having your name tarnished, death threats, lose your job, the chance of being convicted for a crime you didn’t commit all because the woman you were with didn’t want her boyfriend to know that she had messed around on him? Men’s lives are already worth nothing, it’s legal for women to kill their partners and later claim they were abused (with no evidence whatsoever, only her fucking word, Mary Winkler ring a bell?). Goes to show you how much society values men and fathers. When was the last time you heard President Obama talking about providing a council on men and boys? When was the last time you heard of legislation being passed that vows only to protect men (VAWA ring a bell)? When was the last time you’ve been assaulted by your spouse only to call the police and be lead away in hand cuffs due to primary aggressor laws? When was the last time you tried to go to a Domestic Violence shelter with your children only to be told you are not allowed access because you are a man and you cannot be abused? When was the last time you were forced to pay child support by order of the state on a child that is not yours and you have physical evidence showing you are not the biological father of the child, yet if you do not pay you will be sent to prison? When was the last time you needed a deduction on a child support order because you could not work because you were hurt on the job, but the state refused, and they were threatening jail? When was the last time your soon to be ex-wife made up false allegations of domestic violence and child molestation on your own child against you just so she can get a hand up in a custody battle? When is the last time you registered for college and were required to attend a class with your peers that told you that you were biggest danger to other students? When was the last time you saw a male acquaintance kill himself and no one batted an eye, but when a female did it, it became an epidemic in the local media? When was the last time you were listed on a Sex Offender registry for having sex with your teenage girlfriend while you yourself were a teenager as well? When was the last time a court said that you were not allowed to be a parent to your child, that you are only an ATM, and a part-time parent every other weekend? I didn’t think so, not shut up already and go make me a sandwich.

  46. @contraoestatutodonascituro

    Everything Cdub says is true, a woman will make less because of the time taken off from work, it’s a natural fact of life. You tried to interject yourselves in the world of men but those natural facts of life are why our worlds are different. It’s those feminist dogs that tell you those concepts don’t work because they’re trying to upset the natural order of things. In my reckoning, a woman being a mother and a wife is one of the greatest achievements a woman can attain in life if not the greatest. “Mother” is the name of God on the lips of children everywhere, one more time, “Mother” is the name of God on the lips of children everywhere. The act of homemaking is just as important as a man going out there to provide for the family because it allows him to do just that, the feminist dogs either can’t or don’t want to grasp the concept of different but equal. This is why they spew their rhetorical madness about equal rights, your rights have always been equal if not more so just different.

    “Women and children first!”

    Does that ring a bell, on a sinking ship, women are even put before children and the men are left to get in where they fit in. Where is the oppression there? How about the ratio of women that die in military service as compared to men if they’re even sent to the front to wage war in the unnecessary wars of modern time? How about during World War II when the world was fighting real evil and the women got to stay home and the men were drafted to fight and die, not given the choice, drafted. Now, the women did stay home to work the factories and that is honorable in itself because there would be no weapons to fight tyranny. Again, different tasks, equal importance

    You talk about abusive husbands, you do realize that abusive men are in the vast minority of men and men are generally raised from birth to not strike women? Let me ask you, what is your stance on women that abuse men because it does happen often as the men are not allowed to defend themselves either through a self imposed code of conduct and through the laws of man as the police will arrest him anyway for fighting back even if he’s the one that called them there. Also, in cases where both parties assault each other, half the time the woman is the instigator. Let me ask you a question, have you ever been abused by your husband.

    On the subject of rape, again, rapists are in the vast minority of men as men are taught not to rape since, not only is it just wrong, it’s a crime and most people are taught not to break the law as much as possible. Do you constantly feel like you may be raped? How do you live with that if you do? Also, women can take great lengths to prevent being raped by not dressing provocatively in public. This is actually one of my favorite topics so I will explain without waiting your reply. Basically, women try to dress in a manner to attract a man sexually, the rub for men is that women will play that “Don’t objectify me” card mercilessly if the man that she attracts isn’t to her hypergamous liking. The rub for women is that, if you dress to attract men, you will attract men but you can’t control the ones you attract. Now, you will attract men that are respectful and will back off upon rejections but every once in a while, you will attract the ones that will not take no for an answer and then you’re faced with the possibility of rape. Now, let me ask you another question, what are you feelings on me that are raped?

  47. @Jack’s Sperm: Oh yes, men rape because women are dressed ”provocatevely”, so they WANT to rape. And, if they want to rape, they’ll just go ahead and do it, because hey, they WANT it, right? A woman should know that, if a man WANTS to have sex with her, then her feelings on the subject don’t matter. She should just not do anything that makes him WANT to rape her, and then she’ll be okay. Silly women, thinking what THEY want has to be taken into consideration….

    That’s it, I’m not answering anything else because you’re not worth my time. (go ahead, do your victory dance, pat yourself on the back since it was obviously your so, so, superior arguments that made me ”shut up”. See if I care)

    PS: I hope you’re not one of those people who got Fight Club seriously wrong, and like the book/movie for everything it isn’t.

  48. @cdub: Boo fucking woo, you have to WORK to support yourself? What a terrible injustice! And, like, get MONEY for it! I’m so sorry, sweety, it must be so hard! Women have so much better, raising human beings and getting NOTHING for it! Isn’t it beautiful how society glorifies motherhood as the greatest achievement a woman can get and then say she should get no money for it?

    I’m acting like all men are rapists and murderes? I have ”penis envy”? Ooookay then. Whatever you need to tell yourself, honey. I guess someone is a little too pissed off at ”being out of work because of a woman” (guess what, crybaby: you’re not entitled to a freaking job. If the company wants to hire a woman, then you just have to work harder to find someone who will employ you. I bet you’ll have no problem finding one, with that delightful attitude of yours).

    PS: State-funded contraception should be mandatory in states where a husband can legally rape his wife. Since pregnancy can kill, the least the State can do is assure the husband don’t endanger his victim’s life.

  49. Dear Dangler envier,

    Motherhood is the greatest achievement a woman can make, much like Fatherhood is the greatest achievement a man can make. But that’s all over now that the Femtwats decided to destroy the Nuclear Family.

    Um by the way kuntie I’m not out of a job, try again. I was just making a point that the more men are out of work, the more it hurts women as well, I know hard for your little hamster wheel to process.

    And about job discrimination, since you are a whackjob fembot, you obviously agree with affirmative action. You believe women were oppressed, so now you think it is right to use state sponsored legislation to keep current men out of jobs. How does this make you any different than any of those evil men you so despise that supposedly oppressed your mother and grandmother? Looks to me like we would be going in a circle with this bullshit if the beginning actually held any truth. As it stands it’s just a bunch of lunatic femtwats looking for free shit and bashing men in the process. You wouldn’t even be able to get your word out and protest any of this shit we are talking about if men were as oppressive as you claim, because there would be a gag order on your speech dipshit.

    My attitude is appropriate when dealing with idiots like you. Now when it comes to applying for big industry and especially government jobs I know there isn’t much sense in me applying, knowing that I WILL be discriminated against based on my dangler and color. There is a reason why Western economies are coming to a halt and a lot it has to do with political correct busllshit like no longer hiring the best person for the job, instead only certain ‘victim groups’ are given real consideration. But hey that’s okay productive people will win out in the end. They will just leave the sinking ship behind and laugh while all you clowns try and run your social experiment nightmare right into the fucking ground.

    I have no problem with state funded contraception access to someone that was legimately raped. But there needs to be factual evidence not just an accuser’s word alone against the accused. There you go again with “husbands raping their wives”, lol. This happens next to never. Now a real issue to be concerned about if you were truly egalitarian which feminism is anything but, is the amount of men that are thrown in jail every year based off a woman’s word alone, and a lying one’s at that. I know that never happens, cough Duke fake rape case, cough Hofstra fake rape case, cough Dominic Staruss Kahn false rape case, cough Julian Assange false rape case, cough Kobe Bryant false rape case, cough, and the millions of other men falsely accused of rape and sexual assault all over the West, while their false accusers more often then not never serve a fucking day in jail. Can you spell Pussy Pass??????????

    God you hate being a woman don’t you. Trust me putting up with women’s bullshit all day isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

  50. @Cdub: I’m not pro-afirmative action, but I know you can’t make an argument against what I’m ACTUALLY saying, so you just fish things out of a ”deluded things I can regurgitate against women who say men are not poor opressed creatures”.

    And fatherhood is the greatest achievement a man can make? How abt advancing Medicine, science, making a diference for the better in the world, creating a work of art that will be reminded for centuries? All this is less of an achievement than sucessfully impregnating a woman? You have low expectations for life.

  51. @Cdub: Yes, Cdub. All those rape cases are obviously false. Men never, never lie. If they say they didn’t rape then they obviously didn’t rape. Did you ever see a criminal lie abt having commited a crime? That would be a shock, wouldn’t it?

  52. You who’ve ignored virtually everything I’ve said, lol. I gave you paragraph after paragraph about the stupid shit you said. So I may have projected some, for the most part I”m not far off, and you do the same damn thing. Again a woman wanting separate rules, imagine that.

    Without the reproduction and grooming of future generations all those things you speak of are for not and lost.

    She want’s to throw shit, she’ll get a faceful that’s all AY.

  53. @Cdub: I’m not saying ppl shouldn’t reproduce, I’m just saying claiming that having functional reproductive organs is ”the highest achievement” someone can make is diminishing all our potential. And of course I ignored the shit you say, you don’t seriously think I’m gonna read all the bullshit you spew when you showed you’re so out of touch with reality you think you know what I’m for and what I’m against, what ppl I admire (I’m still not over the Oprah thing. Seriously, dude, get a fucking clue) based on less than 5 comments I made on the internet. Ppl like you already think they know it all. You think you know how feminists think, you’re obviously so in touch with our motivations (of course we’re not angry abt not being treated with respect, we just envy your dicks…that’s groundbreaking, ever thought of going in the field of Psychology?) I save my words for ppl who matter. Ppl like you? I just laugh and try to poke your little bubble.

  54. Hah don’t you mean your rally cry Women never lie about rape, LOL. Couldn’t have nothing to do with all the incentives women can get out of lying about rape now could it????

    I know how the fembot mind works, a man merely accused of rape is guilty regardless if the court proves him innocent. Shame on me for giving you real cases of real men who were in-fact falsely accused, because an accusation alone is all the evidence one needs. So much for due process, that’s patriarchal anyway, LOL.

  55. @Cdub: Oh, the benefits of accusing a man of rape. Having your life, face and personal details put on the internet so angry fanboys of the guy you’re acusing can say all the horrible things they want abt you without even knowing you…cough Assange acusers…having papers calling you a liar without any actual proof…cough Strauss-Kahn accuser…having a judge throw you in jail cause you accused another man of rape 3 years before (apparently, due process is necessay when accusing a man of rape, but not so necessary when ”proving” a woman lied to justice abt rape.) Being asked to not go to your school cafeteria because you’re making the guy you accused of rape uncomfortable…cough cheerleader who was ordered to cheer for her rapist or quit the cheerleading team. Yes, it’s just an endless parade of joy to lie you were the victim of a crime society will try to find any way they can to say you were ”asking for it”

  56. @contraoestatutodonascituro

    1.) My ego and self-confidence is to big for me to do a victory dance over making you quit because I knew it was going to happen anyway. You hope that I will because it would be validation that you’re someone to be reckoned with. If I was, in fact, not worth your time then you wouldn’t have responded to me in the first place, would you? So, please, don’t project on me.

    2.) If you’re finished with me, you don’t do a “p.s,” you just stop talking.

    3.) My interpretation to “Fight Club” is my own, like all forms of artistry, the interpretation of the artist’s meaning is left up to the beholder. I’m sure what I got from Fight Club is a lot different from what you got from it.

    4.) Yes, women can take measures to prevent themselves from being raped, you can’t control who receives the signals but you can control the signals you send. The rapist should not rape, that much is true, but what about the personal responsibility of a woman dressing in such a provocative manner? Why do you think that women who dressed that way were frowned upon? Because we knew what she was about and what she was looking for. Women fought for the right to wear what they wanted and, like all rights, it comes with some responsibility. A woman’s feelings would matter to a reasonable man and we all know how much women love reasonable men but a rapist wouldn’t care about a woman’s feelings because the only thing on his mind is rape. Not dressing in a lewd manner isn’t going to prevent all rape, if it’s going to happen, it’s going to happen but you’d be better served not making yourself a target. You still haven’t told me what your feelings on men that are raped. In fact, you just cherry picked from what I said to respond to.

  57. @Jack: 1) You have poor reading skills. I said you’re not worth the time of trying to talk to you as if you were a reasonable person with more than two brain cells. You’re worth the time I take to reply to you with snide remarks. I like telling ppl how much they suck.

    3) An interpretation that’s absolutely contrary to what the artist intended is not an ”interpretation”, it’s a lack of ability to understand what the work was portraying.

    4) The idea that women have to take ”personal responsibility” for being the victims of a crime is ridiculous! If you admit that reasonable men don’t rape, no matter how their victim is dressed, then you have to admit that a man who sees a woman’s clothes as an excuse for rape is someone who’s acting in a way that goes against reason. Then, guess what? Don’t suport a rapist’s mindframe! And I’m sorry to tell you, but the ”only” thing in A LOT of rapist’s minds is not rape. Not all rapists are monsters lurking in shadows in order to prey upon strangers, a lot of them are men who will rape a woman who’s passed out, rape their dates, rape their girlfriends, rape the girls who live in their dorm and not even consider that rape.

    And my ”feelings” on men that are raped? Are there any possible feelings abt rape survivors besides it’s a horrible thing to happen to someone and I hope they can recover?! (well, there’s victim-blaming and trying to see how much ”personal responsibility” they had in being violated, of course, but I don’t do that) Sorry if my reply wasn’t ”man-hating” enough.

  58. Um no it’s called Rape Shield laws. More often than not a woman’s name is not released while a man’s name is dragged thru the mud. Why not name both names, or neither at all, why is the accuser assumed to be not guilty and the accused automatically guilty? Why do the rights of the accuser supersede the rights of the accused in this matter? You don’t recall the media jumping the gun and ready to lynch these men at Duke and Hofstra before they gathered all the facts? But in your warped mind all those men are guilty anyway. These turds that accused Assange wrote papers on how to falsely accuse a man and get away with it. Are you kidding guys get thrown out of colleges just on mere accusations because the so-called ‘victim’ would feel uncomfortable. Therefore, his life needs to be ruined until we find out if anything even really happened.

    And yes the reasons to lie about rape…spite or revenge, to compensate for feelings of guilt or shame, to conceal an affair, test partner’s love, to avoid personal responsibility, attention/sympathy…..

    All and all women who claim they are raped are automatically by and large in society viewed as victims, and men and women alike can’t wait to find a man to blame for it. Men get feel like rescuers of women in doing so, and women get the instant victim status they crave. Who cares if actually happened.

  59. @Cdub: Funny how you ignored all the FACTS I brought to you (the personal details of Assange accusers were all over the internet so rape apologists like you could project all their anger on women they never knew, but were sure were lying) and go on abt rape shield laws.

  60. And his personal details were all-over as well, so false rape disbelievers like yourself could project all your anger on a man you never knew, but was sure he was guilty, all because another one of Team Woman said so. Rape Shield Laws do exist and discriminate against the accused, and you damn well know that’s true. Oh but all these strong, independent females, who are better at everything then men, for some reason need extra protection from the state from these lowly men.

  61. @Yeah, I was sure he was guilt. Your crystal ball wins again. Your anti-feminist guys are very paranoid. When a woman talks abt the misoginy of some men or of a specific men, you imediately feel ”hated”. When a woman talks abt a man accused of smth, you immeditaly think we have 100% sure he’s guilty. That’s smth that would probably better be solved by ways of a good mental health profesional

  62. Um you are the one overly concerned with the mythical rape that happens within marriage. Okay even if some of this is true, it is not widespread problem and happens in such small quanitities it’s no reason to sound the alarm against all husbands, and on top of that there are plenty of options a woman has to put an end to this. She can call the police and have the man arrested immidetaley, she does not even have to say he was abusive, just that she feels threatened. Or media and feminists favorite, kill first, then claim abuse later. That always works out great. Tv show appearances, magazine writeups, book deals, the possiblities are endless.

  63. And when a man talks about misandry most of your sisters look dumbfounded, what’s that? Exactly, it’s so prevelant and excepted in society that people just see at as normal. There’s no such term for hating men. LOL.

  64. @Cdub: Yeah, you obviously didn’t read how THERE ARE STATES WHERE IT’S LEGAL TO RAPE YOUR WIFE. But, hey, all she has to do is to say she feels threatened, it’s not like THERE ARE PLACES WHO WANT TO DECRIMINALIZE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE or anything.

  65. In regards to the original story here. You need to sincerely re-read “Roger’s” response @ 1, August 15, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    If you believe this man needs to be financially responsible for the child. Then do you believe that a woman who was raped and had a child as a result should have to raise and support that child? After all a child is born that needs food, clothing, education, medicine, etc. Or should she be forced to take care of the child, or can she have the option of giving it up for adoption?

    You will not paint me into a corner saying that I do not believe rape happens. I believe it does but it is greatly exaggerated, and at the same time, false accusations are ignored. I am for prosecuting rapists, as well as false accusers, but believe accused people should have the same rights in a court law as accusers.

  66. What women have been arrested for accusing their husbands of rape? Maybe they were those elusive false accusers that don’t seem to exist? That does seem odd because usually when a woman is found out to be lying about rape prosecuters just turn the other cheek like nothing happened. Who cares about the guy that has to reassemble his life.

    You really believe that so many men are out there raping their wives and girlfriends? That’s fucked up.

    And which states are you talking about where it is legal to rape your wife? That is certainly news to me, especially in this rape-hysteria, women = good men = bad culture. Please by all means enlighten me.

  67. @Cdub: You will not paint me into a corner by comparing forcing a woman who has suffered a terrible violation of her body and mind being forced to live with the consequence of that violation, and a man paying suport for a child he brought into this world, even when he was taking precautions for not doing so. First of all, every sexual relationship between man and woman brings the risk of pregnancy, unless one of the two is infertile (and I know two women who were said to be infertile, then ended up pregant, so not even that is 100%) Since the pregnancy doesn’t happen in the man’s body, he takes the risk of supporting the child if the woman gets pregnant and decides to carry the pregnancy to term. He KNOWS this.

    Don’t even try to tell me how she tricked him (yes, she did, it was a horrible thing, and I think he has every right to sue for punitive damages). But he knew there was a risk of pregnancy when he engaged in sexual relations with her. Guess what; pregnancy happened, now he’s responsible for the child who was born because HE chose to engage in a sexual act! If he had been RAPED, then of course I would say he has no obligation to care for a child who resulted of a traumatic experience for him. I wouldn’t be so cruel as to say he has to live with this reminder for the rest of his life. The point is he WASN’T raped.

    I can say, that using your point of view a woman who got pregnant because of a defective condom or IUD can demand only the father support the child, after all she thought she was taking precautions, right? Or she could not abort and not give the child to adoption, but she could just change her mind
    after like 03 months and dumping the kid in an orphanage would be a completely moral thing to do. She thought she wasn’t going to get pregnant, right?


    Yeah apparantly even for states going bankrupt it costs money to process all those made up domestic violence claims as well as the real ones.

  69. @Cdub: And then you want me to show you facts and statistics. Right, jerk, I’m so going to google and check my web history to find the case of the women being arrested for reporting marital rape. Cause you’re such a reasonable person.

    It’s a shame rape victims don’t have half the credibility you seem to think they have, cause then I could hope for some woman you ticked off to make a false accusation against you, and you could go to a place where maybe you’d learn some humiity.

  70. She fucking blew him, he did not engage in sexual activity which leads to pregnancy. So if a guy jacks off at home, and a woman just shows up and steals his cum slop and decides to knock herself up with it, he’s on the hook again? Even if he didn’t decide to have any sexual relations with her? Or is the line drawn at sexual contact with another? Since he had sexual activity (isn’t jacking off/fingering sexual) then he ran the risk of pregnancy, any activity at all? Surely there are no crazy women out there that would do this though, lol.

    I do see your point, but it is really fucked up to say that this guy is on the hook for this.

    When was the last time feminists were concerned with morality? Do you really want to go down that road? I mean a woman’s right to choose trumps everyone else’s rights. Then again a fetus isn’t a person though right? Ever watch the Silent Scream video?

    With your argument that everytime someone engages in sexual activity of any kind they should expect at the very least pregnancy could happen and they should both hold themselves responsible. Therefore as soon as the woman decided to spread her legs she knew what the possible outcome could be. To not go thru with the pregnancy and murder and unborn child is irresponsible as it gets. A woman’s right to choose happened when she opened her legs, and that choice was a child if it happens.

  71. Seriously I would really like to know where it is in the great USofA which States it is legal to rape your wife. I do not fucking know. Please, enlighten me already!!!!!

    Awesome, so now because I don’t agree with what you have to say (freedom of speech means nothing to you) you want the full force of the government to reign down on my head and teach me listen. Typical femtwat, needs government intervention to shut up her critics. Critics be damned!

    Awesome, while I don’t agree with you on much of anything, I’m not advocating that you be silenced via the state and removed from society like apparantly I should be in your eyes, all for stating your opinoin.

    Sooner or later the truth comes right out of a femi-fascist’s mouth. And to think I was actually feeling a little sorry for some of the names I called you earlier, lol. I guess that’s just that old chilvary nature that men naturally have for women, but you are all doing a good job of killing that with your daily contempt for anything male.

    The fact of the matter is it really wouldn’t be that hard for any woman/girl, anywhere in the West, to make any claim of rape or D/V on any men, and all the while that guy’s life will be turned upside down on her word alone. That is as evil as it gets, and why men are bowing out of this fucked up society. You have no fucking clue. Pathetic.

  72. It’s cool that you all get to dress it up nice and neat and pretend that you aren’t really doing anything bad, immoral. I bet it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside that you all can justify killing infants to yourselves. Oh even cooler, a pro-choice website, I love neutral! Awesome link, haha.

  73. @Cdub: If you read bother to read what I sent you, you’d have read this:

    This was taken off of the NIH (National Institue of Health) website, so it is impartial and neither pro or anti abortion. It is simply medical fact.

    and this:

    In addition, experts in ultrasonography and film technology have concluded that the videotape of the abortion was deliberately slowed down and subsequently speeded up to create an impression of hyperactivity.

    But hey, I bet the ppl at the NIH and the videotape experts are all lying babykillers.

  74. With your argument that everytime someone engages in sexual activity of any kind they should expect at the very least pregnancy could happen and they should both hold themselves responsible. Therefore as soon as the woman decided to spread her legs she knew what the possible outcome could be. To not go thru with the pregnancy and murder and unborn child is irresponsible as it gets. A woman’s right to choose happened when she opened her legs, and that choice was a child if it happens.

    By the way you can go fuck yourself now. I’ve heard about enough from you especially the bit about you wishing someone to accuse me of rape so I can learn some true “humility”. That’s about one of the most fucked up things anyone has ever said to me. Would you give me the time of day if I had said I wished you would have some guy rape you so you would learn some humility. You think you are reasonable. Fuck you!

  75. @ contraoestatutodonascituro

    Ya’ know, I had a whole argument lined up until I read what you said to Cdub, you hope someone levies a false rape claim against him? What kind of person are you? I’m asking seriously, why would a feminist wish something so vile against another person? For as damaging as rape is for women, a false rape claim is just as bad from the ruination of that accused man’s life and reputation to jail time if the lie isn’t caught where he runs the possibility of actually being raped himself. Are you so low as a “human being” that you wish for something like that? What if it was your brother or father that had a false rape claim levied upon them? Would you be so cheerful for it and why did you wish that, because you were in an argument with Cdub, someone you’ll never meet, over the internet? You could’ve just not responded but you let something to trivial be the reason to wish harm upon another person.

  76. @Jack’s Sperm: I don’t HOPE someone makes a false rape claim against him, I would never wish that on someone (maybe I would, but they’d have to be a complete monster – a pedophile, a serial killer, not some guy on the internet with a penchant for saying stupid things) I said that, since he makes a mockery out of rape victims claiming there are a lot of advantages in saying you’d been raped (when, in reality, rape survivors face a wide array of problems, from not being able to get health insurance, since being a rape survivor is a ”pre-existing condition” to not being allowed to live in college campuses, since the Uni is afraid they’re going to get raped again and sue, to having their whole life exposed in the media so ppl can claim they deserved their rape – and when I brought up REAL cases, he just said ”there are rape shield laws”, which had nothing to do with the subject), since he makes a mockery of possible real rape victims like the women in the Assange case and the Strauss-Kahn case, claiming they’re liars based on….what? the alleged rapist’s word? then I wished for a world where rape victims would actually have credibility and, since Cdub proved to be the kind of guy who’s DANGEROUS to rape victims (a man who claims a woman hasn’t been raped just because the alleged rapist said he didn’t do it shows he doesn’t trust women’s words. What if a family member, a friend, a co-worker, of his says she was raped? All is gonna take is the guy saying ”I didn’t do it” for him to treat that woman as a liar? What if he has a job – like campus staff or security guard in a club – where he has to take care of a situation involving rape? Wil he even give the alleged victim the time of day?) that made my blood boil, and I said that maybe, in that made-up word of his where all a woman has to do is saying ”I was raped” to put some inocent man in jail (when the reality is people have refused to prosecute cases where the rapist CONFESSED or have refused to send men to jail because the victim was dressed ”provocative”, when the reality is a lot of rapes aren’t even prosecuted…and how the hell is a conviction rate of only 6% consistent with his argument?!) I wish he would be falsely accused so he can learn some humility. Maybe then he would know how it feels to have every one doubt your word, say your word is worth less than the word of another person.

    He annoyed me because I was bringing up FACTS against his fairytale world where a woman can send a man to jail by just saying she’s being abused. I said there are places wanting to decriminalize domestic violence, so how the hell is that crime taken oh so seriously? Did he counter my argument? No, his only reply was that women do suffer domestic violence, but a lot of them lie abt it, so those places are justified, because it’s expensive to prosecute those cases. That’s not ”trivial”. That’s a man so locked into his ”women are evil liars” mentality that he thinks it’s okay to let men beat their wives with no punishment whatsoever, because there are a lot of wicked women out there making things up to send their husbands to jail. So, yes, I was ticked off enough to wish this man a hypothetical suffering in a world that doesn’t even exist. Sue me.

    A false rape claim ruins a man’s reputation?! How was Assange’s reputation ruined? How was Kobe Bryant’s reputation ruined? Hell, even Strauss-Kahn wife didn’t leave him! (and, in the very least, he tried to cheat on her) The cheerleader who was told to cheer for her alleged rapist..the night of the alleged rape, she was locked in a room with 3 men, started screaming and banging on the door, other ppl forced the door open, found her naked and crying, and the guy jumping off the window…so there’s a little more evidence than ”he-said-she-said”…well, HE still plays for the footbal team, while SHE was ostracized and told by the school staff to not go to the capheteria. We DON’T take rape seriously as a society. There were a lot of ppl saying things like ”But even if Assange did damage his condom on purpuose or even if he had sex with a woman while she was asleep, it’s not a big deal”. This is how much we care for women’s wishes, for their health, their physical integrity.

    What I ”wished” on Cdub doesn’t happen in our world. A woman would have to be a master criminal to be able to get him falsely prosecuted for rape, and to make his reputation suffer in any way that counts. (and no, obviously I DON’T wish for a master criminal to do that to him)

  77. hypothetical scenario: so i’m feeling a bit randy, but i find myself without a partner with whom to share my arousal – so i pop a copy of “Debbie does Dishes” into the entertainment center and pleasure myself into yesterday’s classified ads. but i’m an enlightened member of the 21st century, and i know there are people out there with nothing better to do than hunt down my sperm so that they might impregnate themselves and/or unwitting females for their own nefarious reasons – so i douse my legion of pollywogs with bleach and weed killer and antifreeze, and scoop the resulting milkshake into the bowl and flush it away – so far so good? ooh, but a singular blob has escaped my housekeeping – and tomorrow, while i’m at the office, the maid comes in and finds my “gift” hiding inside the decorative bathroom trash recepticle. she has been hoping for this exact moment for years, so she eagerly swabs it up with a stiff index finger and crams it deep into her moist folds — and soon has a horrible reaction to the chemical bath that surrounded the ill-gotten seed, and rushes to the hospital

    hypothetical question: can i be accused of assault (as i prepared my goo with the foreknowlege that it would probably end up being used for its natural purpose) ???

  78. Hello…Does anyone have Dr. Richard Phillips contact information? I am currently going through a similar situation were a woman drugged and raped me of my sperm to enpregnant herself. Now I’m getting hit with Child Support for a child I did not help create. It feels good knowing my story isnt the only one that exist. So if anyone knows Dr.Richard Phillips please send me his contact information.

  79. I have a situation going on right now that is completely the oppisite. My wife of almost two years and I have been tryign to have a baby for 18 months. Every month that she was a day late (she tracked on her iphone) we would take a pregnancy test. every month it came back negative and we would console each other and promise to try the next month.

    Finally, in August, she was pregnant. However, she was six days late when she hinted she needed a test (instead of the typical one day late), and took a test without me for the first time. She actually told two friends before telling me and told me in the middle of a fight.

    One of the “friends” she told is key, but I’ll get back to that.

    A week later she went to the ER with pain in her sides. They diagnosed her with cysts on her ovaries. At this time she informs me, that after 18 months of trying, due to these cysts and the fears she now has about the baby (she had a son from a previous marriage with cerebral palsey) that she was going to abort this baby.

    EIGHTTEEN MONTHS of trying and crying and she tells me this because of cysts. A few days later, she was drinking and informed me its “her goddamn decision, its her goddamn body, and I have no say in what she does”

    She aborts the baby.

    A couple weeks roll by and she leaves her computer open. Her work email is there in plain sight. I look at it and dated the night she went to the doctor for the cysts, she sends an email to a coworker “friend” that she has feelings for him, the email is clear that they at least made out at some point in time, and discussed the fact that she was pregnant and would “reevaluate their relationship once this pregnancy is taken care of”. It is so obvious she aborted for him, not her health.

    So while dealing with the depression and remorse from her kiling my kid for what i THOUGHT was medical reasons, I find out the truth. She misled me for 18 months, finally got pregnant, and killed my kid with me having no say, so she could be with someone else. She is one dirty, babykilling, evil woman.

  80. That sounds awful Chris. Truly abhorrent behaviour. My wife did almost exactly what the article described. Having informed her I was not ready for a second child after a miscarriage caused (in my opinion) by the breakdown of our marriage, she first stabbed up our condoms, insisted on sex with the lights out and I only noticed afterwards and then took a freshly used, tied off condom from its wrappings in 16 sheets of toilet roll in the bathroom bin and inseminated herself. It is not yet known if she is pregnant but, if so, what am I supposed to do? I am furious, depressed and suffering lack of sleep, emotional draining and stress symptoms but, if she is pregnant, what’s a man to do and how will it effect our existing daughter to adapt to a new baby, her parents not getting on AND the fact Daddy is furious at Mummy for turkey-basting herself and getting pregnant?

  81. There’s something about this case I find utterly confusing, and I hope someone can help me out: was Phillips ever able to prove that Irons did, in fact, take his sperm without his knowledge or his consent and artificially inseminate herself?

  82. In result of deception I was forced to become a biological father.
    Is there a group , society or any sort of professional social foundation that I could get in touch with in this regards . Thanks in advamce

  83. In result of deception , I was forced to become a biological father.
    This tragedy has happened to me personally a long time ago , I rejected it then with every thing that I had ,(still do even more strongly) and yet due to to it’s very sever sensitive and critical social nature, I was forced to swallow it , pay for it , and live with it along with it’s constant agonizing nightmares and it’s unbelievable torments to the mind and to the soul which ended up literally ruining my whole life.
    Now , I have decided to write about it and take the war further. To me , it is a matter of principle. who knows ; perhaps someone else might benefit from the experience .,
    I need information about how to go about this or deal with it , I need to talk about it, may be I could come up with some sort of a logic that could at least convince myself that taking this very sensitive case any farther will do me and society good. Thank you

    PS : This case did not take place in the USA, nor either party involved is a US citizen .

  84. […] Another case, from 1999, involved an Illinois girlfriend who saved her boyfriend’s sperm after performing oral sex acts and impregnating herself with his semen. Afterwards she attempted to sue him for child support, and the court ordered him to pay monthly dues. Later, the Illinois judicial system permitted the male to sue his former female partner for emotional distress based on her fraud. […]

  85. Nobody ever cared about womens’ rights, mens’ rights, or babies’ rights. It’s those damned headaches and stomach aches we all fear. Please stop pretending to be playing chess when you’re playing checkers. The end. Bitches. Yours, the adult.

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