BIN LADEN DEAD

Various news organizations are reporting that Osama Bin Laden is dead. President Obama is expected to announce the news. Bin Laden was reportedly killed in Pakistan by an operation involving Navy Seals but the story is still unfolding. YahooReports indicate that he was shot in the head after he and his bodyboards resisted an attack by the elite unit.

The fact that he reportedly went down fighting will likely add to his image as a martyr — though people who follow him need little encouragement or reason.

Bin Laden was a murderous fanatic who used religion to spread hate. His passing from this Earth would be welcomed news and, even for the most agnostic or atheist among us, there is a lingering wish that there is place for the damned to greet men like Bin Laden after the untold harm that he caused not just to his country but to many countries. Hundreds of thousands of dead can be credited to his dark legacy and beliefs.

While liberals and conservatives differed on the means used to fight Bin Laden, there was never any division on the commitment to fight terrorism or the shared loss from his crimes. On September 11th, the plane that hit the Pentagon struck just after I passed the building on my way to work. I made it about a mile away after blowing my tire on the curb and changing the tire as huge columns of smoke filled the air.

In the end, Bin Laden remained the authentic symbol of radical Islam — an extremist filled with hate living with fellow troglodytes in caves and crevices.

Bin Laden’s death will force some accounting of what has been gained and what has been lost since his infamous wave of terror began. Too much of the damage of 9-11 proved to be self-inflicted, including our use of torture and the launching of two wars that have cost thousands of more American lives and hundreds of billions as the nation sinks into debt and economic distress.

There is no indication that our continued loss of money or personnel in Afghanistan will decrease in any way as a result of the news. While the Afghanistan war seemed personality driven with Bin Laden as the face of evil, it has taken on a type perpetual war due to a lack of political courage to end it.

The world is far better without the likes of Osama Bin Laden. However, he left an ample legacy (and legions) to guarantee that religious hate will continue to shape the future of that region and the world at large.

369 thoughts on “BIN LADEN DEAD”

  1. Larry,

    “In other words, you’re saying: He has told the truth more often than he lies, so he’s cool with me. LOL”

    Being the single-cell being you are, you only see what you perceive my statement to be. Your perception is … wrong.

    “My post above [that he initially IGNORED, which was the reason for the re-posting] PROVES he doesn’t give a shit about facts. He also lied THREE times about the Pentagon on 9-11. So, what you’re saying is: People who ask VALID questions based on FACTUAL 9-11 testimony are tin-foil hat losers, but if you LIE three times without being a conspiracy theorist, that’s better???”

    Your post above (and every other post of yours for that matter) only proves that you couldn’t debate – or argue – out of a cardboard box. With the top open.

    Core Rules of Netiquette
    Do Not Use All Caps
    The Rules of Netiquette

    Do not use all caps. Do not write in all capital letter words because it is shouting.

    It is a common technique used by scam artists and other unsavory business people to get attention. It is popular on classified advertising and auction websites because it is a good way to make your ad stand out.

    Using all capital letters in electronic communication is the equivalent of shouting at someone in person.

    In reality it is done to get attention through intimidation. It breaks the standard level of volume and tone a voice should carry to force someone into doing something.

    It is not socially acceptable to shout at people in a civilized society because it is intimidating.

    Therefore, it is bad netiquette to use all caps because it is not socially acceptable to yell at people and using all caps is yelling at people.

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8LBOjxeOeY&w=640&h=390]

    LOL

  2. Elaine: I have not seen him, but have heard him being interviewed. I have his book in my Amazon cart for next time I order from there. While I do not know him, I think it is safe to say he knows whereof he speaks.

    Good of you to remind folks about him.

  3. Otteray,

    Have you seen Matthew Alexander (a pseudonym) being interviewed on TV recently–or in the past–about using torture to get information from detainees? He was on Democracy Now this morning.

    Former Military Interrogator Matthew Alexander: Despite GOP Claims, “Immoral” Torture “Slowed Down” Effort to Find Osama bin Laden

    Summary: The death of Osama bin Laden has sparked a debate over whether torture of suspects held at places such as the U.S. military base at Guantánamo Bay helped track down and kill the Al Qaeda leader. Some claim the mission vindicated controversial Bush policies on harsh interrogation techniques. We speak with Matthew Alexander, a former senior military interrogator in Iraq. “I believe wholeheartedly [Bush-era] techniques slowed us down on the road toward Osama bin Laden and numerous other members of Al Qaeda,” Alexander says. “I am convinced we would have found him a lot earlier had we not resorted to torture and abuse.”

    http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/4/former_military_interrogator_matthew_alexander_despite

  4. http://www.balloon-juice.com/2011/05/04/arguing-against-torture/

    (credit goes to Frank)

    excerpt:

    Once in a while, though rarely, and almost cetainly not in the case of Osama bin Laden’s killing, torture may work. So, they argue, we should make it our policy. The simple answer to that is that even if it works in some rare scenario, it’s not worth sacrificing a 250-year-old principle and our national standing for the tiny, fleeting benefit that may come from it. We’re America, and we’re better than that.

  5. Elaine, Give me a half hour with any of the people who advocate how well torture works for getting good intelligence. I would be willing to bet a month’s income I could get them to confess to killing Cock Robin, the assassination of Lincoln and sinking the Maine in Havana harbor. I am not exaggerating in the least. I could get them to do it. You will say or do anything when you think the person who has you strapped helpless to a board and is systematically drowning you tells you what he or she wants to hear.

    So much for reliable and credible intelligence.

  6. Otteray,

    “The thing that bothers me the most is the approval of waterboarding and other harsh methods by political leadership in this country. Once that bright line is crossed, it is hard to go back until there are prosecutions and possible executions.”

    All the torture cheerleaders have crawled out of the slime. They want to make sure they get their talking points out via the media. They know that if they repeat something often enough and long enough people will believe it. Their proposed new mantra: What would Jesus do? Waterboard!

  7. I am of two minds this morning as I go through the news. First, they either did or did not obtain a clue about that courier from torture or by interrogation. That is going to be argued from now on. If it was through standard interview methods, the torture advocates are going to crow the torture softened him up. Whether it is true or not, that will be the meme–you can count on it.

    Second, it has now become second guessing that this was not an attempt to capture, but an assassination. There are plenty of precedents for both scenarios. It has been possible to snatch a figure from a fortress; think Eichmann, Noreiga and others. If the choice were to kill Bin Laden in that dark house or risk friendly casualties, the decision is a no-brainer. But killing them is safer for the raiders, always. One that comes to mind is the interception and killing of Admiral Yamamoto in WW-II. Intelligence told them where he would be in his airplane, so several P-38 fighters flew for hours to intercept him and shoot him down.

    The thing that bothers me the most is the approval of waterboarding and other harsh methods by political leadership in this country. Once that bright line is crossed, it is hard to go back until there are prosecutions and possible executions. I am old enough to remember vividly the events described in the link below. I have known survivors of the Bataan Death March, my cousin was at Pearl Harbor, as were a couple of friends. Most of the male members of my family went, and I was just a few birthdays short of being old enough to become an air cadet when the war ended. This could have been any of us. Never again, and certainly not in my name.

    http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/massacres_pacific.html

  8. BDA – if you have to count on Donny there for “facts” you have lost already.

  9. Ok so here’s what I come up with with the help of my little birdie friend again 🙂

    Waterboarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammad results in the Nom De Guerre of bin Ladin’s courier.

    Waterboarding of Al-Qahtani confirms the Nom De Geure of bin Ladin’s courier.

    Waterboarding of an Al Qaeda captured in Iraq,Hassan Ghul, produces the real name of the courier, Al-Kuwaiti

    Sometime beginning in 2006 the NSA begins intercepting communications made by anyone “al-Kuwaiti” has known to communicate with, and as they say, the rest is history.

  10. The file suggests that the courier’s identity was provided to the US by another key source, the al-Qaida facilitator Hassan Ghul, who was captured in Iraq in 2004 and interrogated by the CIA. Ghul was never sent to Guantanamo but was believed to have been taken to a prison in Pakistan.

    Ghul was never sent to Guantanamo but was believed to have been taken to a prison in Pakistan.

    No one was water-boarded at Guantanamo by the US military. In fact no one was water-boarded at Guantanamo period. Three people were water-boarded by the CIA away from Guantanamo and then later were brought to Guantanamo.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8489866/WikiLeaks-Bin-Ladens-courier-trained-911-hijack-team.html

  11. Donald Rumsfeld told Sean Hannity that he was misquoted and that waterboarding did in fact lead the US to Osama Bin Laden.

    “CIA Director Panetta indicated that one of the individuals who provided important information had in fact been waterboarded… There was some confusion today on some programs, even one on FOX I think, suggesting that I indicated that no one who was waterboarded at Guantanamo provided any information on this. It’s not true. No one was waterboarded at Guantanamo by the US military. In fact no one was waterboarded at Guantanamo period. Three people were waterboarded by the CIA away from Guantanamo and then later were brought to Guantanamo. And, in fact, as you pointed out the information from these individuals was critically important.”

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/03/972665/-Rumsfeld-confirms:-Waterboarding-did-not-net-intelligence-that-led-to-binLaden

  12. “Trolls do not bother me, since I know they live in a strange little world all their own.”

    So, OS—-are you saying you DID NOT lie three times about the Pentagon on 9/11? Are you saying you DID NOT post a link showing a photo-shopped FAKE picture of Bin Laden’s dead body that’s been circulating on the net for a year???

    I’m a “troll” for pointing out your disinfo???? It must REALLY bother you that THIS “troll” is kicking your ass with FACTS.

  13. MIke S:

    Thanks for your thoughts. If I read you correctly, I, like you, tend to judge the demise of enemies on pragmatic rather than a moral considerations. My continued well-being seems to trump considerations of the well being of my enemy when he has vowed to destroy me for simply believing differently.

  14. raff, thank you. It seemed appropriate under the circumstances.

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