There is a rather bizarre case involving a 20-year-old man, Deshon Marman, who entered a plane wearing baggy pants and failed to pull up his pants fast enough for a US Airways pilot who had him arrested at San Francisco International Airport.
Marman is described as a football star at University of New Mexico who was traveling to a friend’s funeral.
He reportedly said that he first refused a demand to pull up his pants upon entering the plane because his hands were full but did ultimately pull up his pants when he reached his seat.
If so, it was not fast enough for the pilot who ordered the plane evacuated and performed a “citizen arrest.”
He was charged with trespassing, battery and resisting arrest.
Notably, there is no published dress code for US Airways and it is not clear how any arrest could be made for baggy pants. This has been a long controversy over efforts to criminalize baggy pants. The trespass charge would appear based on the theory that the pilot wanted him to leave and he did not leave fast enough. There is no explanation of the battery charge. He could not have been a threat since we have seen how baggy pants frustrate crime.
Police admit that he was not threatening anyone. Spokesman Sgt. Michael Rodriguez stated “[h]e was not threatening anybody directly, but being on board an aircraft and being disruptive to the aircraft crew interferes with their duties and that could be a safety factor.”
Police are now also holding Marman on an outstanding warrant on possession of marijuana.
I personally find this style perfectly moronic, but I fail to see the grounds for such an arrest unless the person is being charged with public exposure.
Source: NBC
“You see a black guy sitting peacefully in his seat, minding his own business. And naturally, you see racism, and you’re brave enough to call it out based on nothing but the colors of the men involved. So your see racism everywhere glasses are working, you got that going for you.”
Anon,
Coyness isn’t becoming. I assume you know that the baggy, low riding pants come out of the Hip Hop music movement and is identified with black people. Perhaps you also think “driving while black (and nowadays Latino)is also mythology.
Otteray Scribe
1, June 20, 2011 at 2:47 pm
tomdarch, you left out the money quote on the list of violations: “…interferes with
the performance of the duties of the member or attendant or lessens
the ability of the member or attendant to perform those duties…”
Courts have ruled on the interpretation of those several phrases. I not only am familiar with that section of the US Code, but have looked up the cases as well. There are a lot of assumptions going on with few facts. The reason the kid was arrested was NOT for wearing low pants. He was arrested for refusing to come with the Captain out onto the jetway for a discussion.
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So, the answer is, I am not qualified to interpret the code. My uninformed reading is, “by [performing action x, specifically “assaults” or “intimidates”], [causes result y: interferes with crew]. To me, it seems that the code makes a sort of causal or conditional link between the two.
About the argument that this guy’s baggy pants posed a risk to himself and the other people on the plane – can you really claim that there are no examples of women’s fashion that don’t pose and even greater risk? Ill fitting high heels, for instance? How often are people wearing these items told to do something about them? How often do they disregard that order, and are then ordered off the plane, continue to disregard the orders, and are then arrested? If a passenger having a hard time getting down an aisle (such as from baggy pants falling down while trying to walk) is such a security issue, why do we serve passengers alcohol on planes? Why do we allow them to take prescription sedatives? Sorry, but the contractions here make me not buy the “baggy pants are too dangerous” argument to justify the situation.
Mr. Erb – you clearly deserve a thoughtful reply from me, which will take a little time to compose.
You see a black guy sitting peacefully in his seat, minding his own business. And naturally, you see racism, and you’re brave enough to call it out based on nothing but the colors of the men involved. So your see racism everywhere glasses are working, you got that going for you.
Other people see a coddled jackass that came to the airport wearing in appropriate clothes, that fell down to his knees, that refused to cooperate with well known authorities.
Personally, I believe seeing racism everywhere and calling it out where there is otherwise no evidence is the second to last refuge of the incompetent.
Well, anyway, the exact same thing happened again, except it’s frontier airlines and instead of an oppressed black man that the white male patriarchy is keeping down, it was a quadriplegic, and the reason is even sketchier:
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/28291011/detail.html
Quadriplegic Passenger Forced Off Frontier Flight
Pilot Said It Wasn’t ‘Safe’ For Fort Collins Man To Fly
DENVER — A quadriplegic man from Fort Collins was forced off a Frontier Airlines plane because a pilot said it wasn’t safe for him to fly.
His mother, Kathleen Morris, said there was no problem two days earlier when her son flew Frontier from Denver International Airport to Dallas to attend a family wedding.
But Sunday afternoon, when he boarded in Dallas to come home, John Morris and his family said they were humiliated.
“When a flight attendant saw John strapped in, they said they would have to clear it with the captain,” said Kathleen Morris.
She said that her son is a quadriplegic with limited upper body control.
Morris has flown Frontier Airlines in the past, using an airline seat-belt extension to secure his chest and legs to the seat. The extension is normally used by larger passengers who need a longer seat belt to secure their waist.
“But this time, the pilot refused to take off,” she said. “So, I said that we wouldn’t get off the plane until they figured it out.”
Passengers Offered To Help
Fellow passenger Denny Cannon was seated nearby and overheard that Frontier couldn’t use its equipment for medical purposes.
So, he and other upset passengers, offered to help.
“Me and other passengers said, ‘Well, sure, use our belts and we’ll somehow restrain him and then you won’t be using Frontier products,” Cannon recalled.
Three Police Officers Responded To Plane
But in the end, to the dismay of other passengers, Frontier called airport police. Three police officers boarded the plane.
Kathleen Morris said she felt it was insensitive that the pilot never came out to talk with her son or examine how he was restrained in his seat.
The mother said sympathetic police officers told her of their discussion with the pilot.
The officers told the pilot this was not a law enforcement matter, according to Kathleen Morris.
“It looks like he’s safely restrained,” an officer told the pilot, according to Kathleen Morris. “This is not an issue for us, because he’s not posing a problem for the plane or other passengers.”
The captain again refused to take off with Morris onboard.
“He cannot fly. I want him off this plane,” the pilot told police, according to Kathleen Morris.
“It was humiliating,” the mother said. “The officers kept apologizing to me and to John and kept saying, ‘This is wrong.'”
A snowboarding accident five years ago left John Morris paralyzed.
The 24-year-old Colorado State University student said he couldn’t believe how he was treated on the plane, and he was sorry for the delay the incident caused.
“I felt horrible,” he said. “I just felt like I didn’t belong. I haven’t felt that bad since the accident.”
“It really broke my heart, because I know what John goes through on a day to day basis, not being able to do things that he certainly would like to, just wanting the opportunity to travel,” Kathleen Morris said.
“It was very demoralizing and dehumanizing. It should have been dealt with at the gate, not after he was already boarded,” said one passenger.
Frontier: “There Was No Wrong Done Here”
“The pilot did what he thought was best for the safety of this disabled person and the party, as well as the airplane, there was no wrong done here,” said Frontier spokesman Peter Kowalchuk. “I don’t believe that his rights were violated. We’re in the process now of conducting an investigation.”
Kowalchuk said the pilot was concerned for the safety of Morris and uncertain whether the seat-belt extension could be used to restrain his legs and torso.
The captain has the ultimate decision on issues regarding passenger safety on a plane, he said.
“The pilot is the CEO of that aircraft, if you will,” said Kowalchuk.
Hear, hear, Mike S…. Well said.
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Arthur,
Re: “Well lotta, I see that you are more concerned about drama than rational discourse.” The fact remains that public facilities such as airports DO by necessity have to have rules to preserve security and safety”
You apparently don’t know “lotta” (lottakatz), like we know lottakatz, who is always interested in “rational discourse”, from my point of view…
Re: “The fact remains that public facilities such as airports DO by necessity have to have rules to preserve security and safety”
I’m pretty sure that most who post here — and certainly lottakatz — understand this…
(As Mike said, LK is perfectly capable of fighting her own battles, but I’m weighing in anyway. I’m a little surprised at some of the patronizing and condescending comments in this thread…)
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What happened was a gross overreaction to something pretty minor — it needn’t have escalated…, to ever-so-briefly restate my position…
“Well lotta, I see that you are more concerned about drama than rational discourse. The fact remains that public facilities such as airports DO by necessity have to have rules to preserve security and safety”
Arthur,
I must strongly disagree, not that LK can’t fight her own battles, but your sweep was so inclusive that I suppose it includes me. The drama in this discussion has been added by those who think the objections are to Captains having the authority to deal with potentially disturbing passengers and I, nor no one else disagrees with you. The issue that raises my hackles is that in defending the pilot’s actions the verbiage used is also one that could apply to any police state.
Unless this young man’s ass was fully exposed, which it wasn’t at all, then nobody should have the right to complain about his attire. That he was large and black I think had much to do with the complainers. He was sitting peacefully in his seat and explained to the Captain that the problem was solved. The Captain should have let the matter end right there. however, it is obvious that the Captain had his own agenda and that was to remove the young man from the plane for his purported impertinence. Despite the inconvenience that would cause to the rest of his passengers. To me that indicates that the Captain is someone with the type of mentality where he must maintain his “top dog” status. Perhaps this is a tendency needed of all commercial pilots, but I seriously doubt it. It is usually the tendency of those with closed minds and while attention to detail is of course paramount in flying an aircraft, flexibility of decision making would appear to me to also be an excellent attribute.
Captain Sullenberger, faced with disaster, thought outside the box and saved his plane and passengers. I have seen him interviewed on many occasions and he impresses me as a man with great strength of character and not one who needs to exert authority to flatter his ego. This young man did nothing wrong except to commit a fashion faux pas, that actually among those his age, is a fashion statement.
One doesn’t have to be my age to be an Old Fart and my feeling is this Captain is one also.
Further, I could care less that this authority far predated 9/11.
Since 9/11, the tendency of people with authority over other has grown exponentially. Under cover of terror it has allowed many of the egotists of the world to enjoy their small power over others. This is especially true in the airline industry. The sad and ironic twist to this is that the next terror attack will most probably not copy 9/11, but will come in other areas where less money for vigilance is being expended. Once again we are figuratively shutting the barn door after the horses have escaped and shedding some of our civil liberties in the process.
LK,
Must admit I don’t know how to use a spell checker in the reply box here while posting, nor bold for that matter. After all yhese years here I know that sounds dumb, but there you have it.
“Do you remember the tune?”
FFLEO,
Memory vague, but then what would you expect, perhaps if you hummed a few bars. Speaking of which I was in some scary bars, especially in the Desert in rural Nevada. Nobody threatened me. Of course with my mangy looks, six feet and flowing Mexican Wedding shirt they might of thought I was packing, especially with my hunting knife on my hip. Good times, enfolded in the naivety and stupidity of youth.
HenMan, I would also encourage you to put your clown shoes into the luggage. Same with your horn.
FFLEO, why thank you darlin’ 🙂
O.K.- So I can’t wear my baggy pants on an airplane. I can live with that. But Lord help the pilot who tries to take away my red stick-on nose or my slapstick!
Lottakatz,
We regulars do not care if you disagree and we will always like ya a bunch ’cause we know that you can be obstin…er, hard-hea, um, well, anyways—you aint no shrinkin’ violet…There! I said it!
OS,
do not download any pictures to Prof. Turley’s site of that outfit!!
Raff: Yes.
tomdarch,
What FFLEO said. You yourself admitted that you may be wrong about the culture among pilots. While not a pilot myself, I know quite a few – from crop dusters, to civil pilots, to commercial carrier and military pilots. To a one there is one consideration that overrides any and all other considerations. That prime directive is safety.
i’m with L K on this one. everyone sees the pilots and the passengers actions through the lens of their own experiences and beliefs and no amount of typing will change that.
but i’m still right na na na
OS,
I can’t agree with you and Capt. Erb about the “test” and the need for the test. If the rules are to be followed, put all of these rules in writing and let the public know what lines in the sand are being drawn. However, I do need clarification of your “going regimental” comment. Is that the same thing as “going commando”?? 🙂
If everyone had acted rational this would never have been an issue. There must have been something that got the attention of the gate agent. However, some gate agents are unreasonable and like to play god. Again, there must have been something that brought the young man to the agents attention…then, it was reported to the pilot and then the pilot must make a decision…who knows…even before 911…adherence to being reasonable was expected…You have no right to fly…You have the right to reserve and pay for a ticket…but you have no right to fly…
Mike, FYI: I just got tired of my spell-checker hassle’s so I looked around the Internet and d/led this spell checker and installed it. It works with the right click mouse (won’t install in a tool bar but that’s OK for me) and works well. If you have a spell checker that is a pain in the butt to use then this is a good, free add-on. No virus etc., I ran it past Webroot anti-virus before I installed. Just a right click in the comment box, no highlighting etc., a double click on the appropriate word in the word selection box changes the misspelled word, you don’t have to click on “change”. Just FYI, not trying to sell it or anything.
http://www.iespell.com/
Well lotta, I see that you are more concerned about drama than rational discourse. The fact remains that public facilities such as airports DO by necessity have to have rules to preserve security and safety. As for anybody who works at the airport having unlimited authority, that is beyond absurd. and convinces nobody but yourself.
The pilot writes “legitimate orders” which you construe as “We demand absolute and total compliance with every order or request from anyone, anywhere in this airport and especially in the plane. If you don’t comply we have the legal authority to remove you and put your ass in jail AND WE WILL.”
Good job, I am curious what sort of law you practice in case I need someone like you.