Supreme Court, Things That Tick Me Off

Five Fullerton Cops Beat Homeless Man To Death

-Submitted by David Drumm (Nal), Guest Blogger

Kelly Thomas, a 37-year-old homeless schizophrenic, is shown on the left, after his confrontation with Fullerton California police officers, and on the right before his brutalization. He was taken to UC Irvine Medical Center in Orange County in critical condition on life-support and died five days later. Kelly was unarmed, had a slight build, and of medium height.

Witnesses claim that officers continued hitting Kelly with the butts of their flashlights even after he had stopped moving.

Kelly’s father, a retired Orange County sheriff’s deputy, didn’t recognize his son when he visited him at the hospital, and said “This is cold-blooded, aggravated murder.” Kelly’s father said his son was probably off his medication and couldn’t understand the officers’ commands.

An investigation is underway by the Orange County district attorney’s office and witnesses are sought.

In Olmstead v. L.C., the Supreme Court held that, under the Americans with Disabilities Act, individuals with mental disabilities have the right to live in the community rather than in institutions. One consequence is that even people with serious mental disorders, that are controlled by medication, are members of society. The side effects of the medication are claimed to be worse than the illness they’re supposed to treat and individuals are reluctant to continue the treatment.

This incident demonstrates a lack of self-control by the officers who have manifested sociopathic tendencies.

The video below doesn’t show much of what took place but other videos may surface.

H/T: LA Times, Orange County Register, Reason Hit & Run.

123 thoughts on “Five Fullerton Cops Beat Homeless Man To Death”

  1. Robert M. Lacy Jr.,

    “Our justice system is seriously OUT OF CONTROL!”

    It is, but not enough people realize it yet… And then we have the “wanna bes” who are participate in some of the street and community games… Yep. Out of control…

  2. These officers that beat this man to death should be tried for 1st degree aggravated murder, but we all know they will only lose their jobs, if even that! All law enforcement is above the law! If an officer is killed they always drop every other case and put EVERY OFFICER THEY HAVE on the case and have a suspect in custody within hours! If you or I are murdered, we’re lucky if they even take a report, let alone investigate. I know this from personal experience. All law enforcement believe they are Gods and deserve special treatment! Law enforcement in this country is evil! At least 90% are corrupt! Whether they blatantly commit crimes or simply speed while off duty or except a free cup of coffee, corruption is corruption! These officers should pay with their live as Kelly Thomas did, our justice system is seriously OUT OF CONTROL!

  3. Former Federal LEO,

    Thanks for your insightful response. I’ve heard that there may be a video that hasn’t yet been released. (I’m not certain of the source and it may just be a rumor.) It’s been said that this video gives one a close view of what transpired but, again, I don’t know if it even exists. If it does, it might be helpful in sorting out this mess. If it doesn’t, as you’ve said, “Justice is in the eyes of the jury” and, hopefully, the jury will reach the correct decision.

    Having said this, and I realize that you may not want to respond…but, what could possibly be the rationale — the explanation — for continuing to pummel a man even after he has stopped moving? Sure, the adrenaline was flowing, but something just doesn’t seem right. The response wasn’t, in my opinion, proportional to the alleged crime.

  4. Anon nurse,

    I do not think a charge of second-degree murder would stand for the six officers involved. Like it or not, LEOs are given great deference while performing within their line of duty. They were called to the scene of a crime and found a suspect who fit the description of the person burglarizing vehicles. The suspect ran from the police and appeared to have items in his backpack that did not belong to him, which raised the suspension level. He also resisted arrest. Therefore, the LEOs had every legal right to be where they were, apprehend the suspect, and what ensured thereafter was likely not within the realm of premeditated murder. Had a Fullerton LEO walked up to Mr. Thomas and shot him dead, then a first-degree murder charge is appropriate. The Fullerton D.A. should not over-charge in this case for the best chance at seeking justice for Mr. Thomas–that is, if they file charges at all.

    As an example, the D.A. originally charged BART officer Mehserle,, mentioned above in a previous post, with second-degree murder for the fatal shooting of a suspect in the back at close range. However, the jury only found him guilty of *involuntary* manslaughter, which is 2 steps lower than second-degree murder. I think that juries most often are not going to charge an LEO with murder if there are mitigating circumstances. Mehserle was recently released after serving just 11 months for homicide. Justice is in the eyes of the jury…

  6. u cant even trust no one these day not even men in uniform their just crooks on uniform think their the shit cuz they a gun and a teaser ect . their going to burn in hell!!! most officer need some anger management… poor guy its so heartbeaking

  7. Anon nurse,

    I am unsure of any restrictions that attorneys here might have–based upon any legal codes of ethics, et cetera–about stating opinions regarding potential and/or pending litigation, as in this case.

    Therefore, there have been times when I wondered if the attorneys here could not comment on certain topics because of certain standards of conduct, if they simply missed the discussion, or if they did not have time to reply. This blawg would just be another blog without their input; however, I understand if their comments must be measured.

  9. Former Federal LEO,

    I completely understand where you’re coming from and never doubted for a second that you would take it up again at some point in the future. It speaks well of you that you would first want to hear from the lawyers on the blog — your professionalism comes through clearly in your postings. I jokingly chided you, but didn’t mean it seriously… As things develop, perhaps we’ll even see a new article/thread…

  10. Anon nurse,

    I have not forgotten–I would still like to hear from M72, Mike A., Frank M. III et al. regarding their opinions, if possible.

  12. Jo,

    Very well said, and I agree that it’s unbelievably heartbreaking.

    I’ve worked with the mentally ill for years… and within certain populations (law enforcement, mental health “professionals”, residential counselors/staff, ER staff) I’ve seen a sort of disconnect, at times. All the education and training in the world won’t help certain people — there must be a readiness to learn.. and it’s missing in certain individuals, it seems. Having said this, a certain amount of training and education are essential, as you note. Also, I think that it’s essential to get rid of those with a predisposition towards violence…

    The man in this story was known in the community and among the police, which makes this story even worse.

  13. This incident demonstrates a lack of self-control by the officers who have manifested sociopathic tendencies

    … psychopaths…

    The problem with these kinds of statements is that we are assigning blame to so-called “rogue” officers or a mental defect on the part of the LEO. Blame actually lies with a police state mentality that is highly encouraged and rewarded by our government. Blatant abuses of power do not require a sociopath to perform them.

    This case was written up at Pro Libertate:

    Incidents of this kind display a standard morphology:

    A cop confronts a citizen and encounters brief, trivial, and often justified resistance. He summons “backup,” and a thugscrum – which is a phenomenon similar to a criminal “flash mob,” but generally more lethal – quickly coalesces and deals out hideous violence while terrified citizens look on in horror and apparent helplessness.

  14. The worst thing about mental illness in this country is the lack of knowledge about it by the average Joe. The Average Joe in this case being anyone without a degree in psychiatry. (Well maybe even a percentage of those with a degree from my experience) We as a society are frightened of those who talk to themselves or an invisible “playmate”. Who act different . Look different. And the police are after all just a segment of society with all its prejudices and ignorance. But we as a society often hate the ones who make us afraid. We have spent decades trying to educate people out of racial prejudices. ( I hope we are succeeding) I wish we could start trying to educate people about those with mental illnesses. But it should be mandatory training for all law enforcement. I cant see that a brutal beating of a mentally ill man can be anything other than based on ignorance , prejudice and hatred. It can be difficult and dangerous to interact with a mentally ill person. I know. But they are out there and its about time that something other than “immediate compliance” be accepted when dealing with the mentally ill. And the macho self aggrandisement often seen in those with a badge . The attitude of Respect My Authoritay ala South Park, needs to be changed . The mentally ill are still trying to process an order when they have already been thrown to the ground, tased, beaten murdered. Its so heartbreaking.

  17. Jo,

    Thanks for sharing your story with us. Glad it turned out as well as it did.

  18. Jo,

    How lucky your sister is to have you. And your story serves to remind that there are still kind, sensible and decent strangers (the bus station attendant) who will do the right thing… As to the actions of the police in Baton Rouge… you’ve said it all…

    I’m reminded of the following:

    “The moral test of any society is how it treats its most vulnerable members.”

  19. My sister, a schizophrenic, was in Mexico when she became aware she was descending into that hell of losinng touch with reality. Heat is very bad for her condition and no we didn’t know she was in Mexico.She started for home (NC) but by the time she reached Baton Rouge, La. she was no longer sane. I’ve seen her many times in that condition and there is no mistaking her her behavior for sanity. Yes she can be beligerant, not that she is out to hurt anyone even in her deepest hell, but she can be dangerous because she is afraid of everyone. She was apprehended by the Baton Rouge police for odd behavior. And what did the police do? Send her to the hospital and try to find her relatives? No they put her on a bus heading “North”. Several days later a bus station attendant called my mother from Gulf Port, Miss. She had been there for a while he said and he had finally gotten a phone number from her and paid the long distance charges himself, Bless his kind heart. I spoke to him and asked that he call an ambulance and gave him the information to give the paramedics.I called the hospital and told them of her condition and to keep her there till I got there. I had to drive because I couldn’t bring her back by plane. We got her home safely tho with a lot of difficulty. But If a kind man hadn’t had the patience to deal with a crazy woman she would have wandered homeless for how long? The more the stress the longer the break with reality. And the Baton Rouge police? Protect a crazy woman ? help her find help? Don’t make me laugh.

  20. Honestly,

    Perhaps those involved will be held accountable this time…, but you’re probably right.

    I hadn’t heard that particular Mark Fuhrman quote, but it’s not surprising… I think that he ended up in the Sand Point, Idaho area.. A friend of mine told me that the locals found him to be arrogant and aloof…

    This is such an egregious example of police brutality… Maybe things will be different… Always the naive optimist…

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