Open Thread On Debt Deal

-Submitted by David Drumm (Nal), Guest Blogger 

To get the ball rolling, here’s Paul Krugman: “For the deal itself, given the available information, is a disaster, and not just for President Obama and his party.”

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-California):  “maybe none of us will be able to support it.”

Comment moderation is off, so have at it.


113 thoughts on “Open Thread On Debt Deal

  1. “This story is simply mind-numbing in its scale of waste and fraud-by-incompetence of the American taxpayers. Here we have proof that the govt. thru poorly written and executed contracts, coupled with a severe lack of leadership and accountability has somehow produced 2 nearly completed US Navy ships (one 95% and the other 84% completed) that will be heading to the scrapyard. These ships started as a minimum estimated $300 million dollar investment, took 25 years, have NEVER seen a day of duty and are off to be dismantled so we can recoup a paltry $17 million in sunk costs. Is anyone resigning? Is anyone getting fired? Is anyone even talking about this incredible waste of money and resources? Of course not. How many Social Security checks would this cover? How many Medicare and Medicaid payments could this money have fulfilled?

    So to those who are up in arms because the Tea Party GOP are unwilling to accept ‘shared sacrifices’ (e.g. higher taxes), let’s starve the ever wasteful beast just a bit until we can clean up some of the rampant cronyism, fraud and abuse before we put anyone, rich or poor, on the hook for giving Uncle Sam a little more Monopoly money to play with.”

  2. Oh my. How did i miss this piece of cheery news.

    “The first audit of the privately owned and foreign owned Federal Reserve by the GAO,has turned up $16 Trillion dollars of loans all over the world to prop up the global fiat empire. This massive money creation is over and above Hank Paulson’s $700 billion dollar heist of the American public. It is also in addition to QE1 and QE2 that resulted in an illusionary recovery of the economy.

    Read more:

    Do realize that 16 trillion is greater than our entire annual gdp. We are good and truly fucked.

  3. KD,

    (“There is no such thing as a temporary loss. What’s gone is gone.”

    Only if you sold at an inopportune time or the company went bankrupt )

    Actually kd, Elaine is absolutely right. Regardless of any monetary or psychological gains or losses, there is always a cost for any action taken no matter how trivial. If Elaine invests 3,000 dollars, regardless of whether she makes a ton of money or loses her shirt, she cannot spend that 3,000 dollars on anything else until the end of whatever time period the investment is for. That is a very real cost, not the money itself, but the forgoing of anything she could have bought immediately with the money she chose to invest.

    To put it in more relatable terms, I have an hour before work. I could relax and go swimming or I could mow my lawn. I can choose to use my time doing one or the other, but, with exceptions to future technological advances, there is no way i can do BOTH in the same hour. Obviously none of this is in monetary terms but you could say pretty certainly that if i chose to mow my lawn, then I must have considered that course of action more beneficial than swimming. In conclusion, whichever action I take has cost me the hour of free time I had to complete it.

  4. ekeyra,

    Thanks for the “Business Insider” link.

    An excerpt from that article:

    “As a result of this audit,we now know that the Federal Reserve provided more than $16 trillion in total financial assistance to some of the largest financial institutions and corporations in the United States and throughout the world. This is a clear case of socialism for the rich and rugged,you’re-on-your-own individualism for everyone else.” Senator Bernie Sanders VT

    While Americans have been getting hammered,in this winter of our Empire,the Elite have been securing their bets gone wrong. Too Big To Fail should be Too Rich To Fail. As Americans continue to get crucified for speculating on the housing and stock bubble,the Elite get you to pay for their losses. This kleptocracy is a way of life and if the American people understood the enormity of this perverse crime,there would be revolution in the morning. And not just here in America,this money went all over the world to prop up the local Elite in foreign fiefdoms. The world is enslaved by debt and the wars they fund. We deserve better than this.

  5. E, you are talking about opportunity costs. I get that. But if we are talking about retirement investment, we’re talking long term anyway with the expectation that you’d have to ride the ups and downs from the get go.

  6. KD,

    I understand your perspective on retirment, but funding it is no different than funding anything else. There is no reason that funding your retirement must entail stock speculation and the “ups and downs” that you refer to. Unless of course you mean the ups and down of fiat currency manipulation that anyone holding dollar assests is subject to. If that is the case however, we are all on that rollercoaster ride no matter what we do.

  7. Lotta,

    Im torn on how i feel about those ships. Yes it was a ton of money wasted, but I guess i have to feel better about spending 300 million to murder foreigners and failing than spending 300 million dollars to do so and succeeding.

  8. It’s a super site all regarding their sound, studio and recording techniques is there … I was so surprised myself and my band. I would surely suggest these guys.
    They really understand what they’re doing. It is at more than the professional level. They made us a very good price.

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