113 thoughts on “Open Thread On Debt Deal”

  1. @Elaine

    “Where would Wall Street be now if the government–that is, we the tax payers–had not bailed Wall Street out?”

    Perhaps we the taxpayers should not have compelled them, thorough our elected representatives, to make a bunch of risky loans to people who were uncreditworthy.

    “Maybe the government should have left the millionaire and billionaire bankers alone and let them crash and burn.”

    Maybe they should have. Altough, do you know whether the financial system would be in better or worse shape today?

    “There is no such thing as a temporary loss. What’s gone is gone.”

    Only if you sold at an inopportune time or the company went bankrupt.

  3. Roco,

    I told my adviser that I didn’t want any of my money invested in Halliburton or any other companies like it that make money off of war.

  5. Roco,

    Where would Wall Street be now if the government–that is, we the tax payers–had not bailed Wall Street out? Maybe the government should have left the millionaire and billionaire bankers alone and let them crash and burn.

  6. Elaine:

    My portfolio went down in 2008 as well. But when you buy Caterpillar at $35 and it is now selling for around $100 you dont cry to much about your temporary loss of wealth.

    Maybe the problem is not with the market but with your financial adviser. Many of them do not know shit about markets. You probably ought to go find a free market financial advisor. They usually understand trends and markets [how they actually work not how liberals think they work].

    I bought precious metals in 2006 because I knew this was coming I also sold most of my portfolio in 2008 prior to the down turn. You can always park the money in a money market account for a few years and then get back in or not.

    If you read a few books and know which people to take advice from, you can do well in the market(s).

    Over the long haul the stock market has done well. And could do very well if people would just leave the economy alone and quit trying to control something that does not do well with controls.

    There could be much wealth created and enjoyed by individuals.

  7. The Road to a Downgrade
    A short history of the entitlement state..

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903999904576470551476951590.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_opinion

    “According to the most recent government data, today some 50.5 million Americans are on Medicaid, 46.5 million are on Medicare, 52 million on Social Security, five million on SSI, 7.5 million on unemployment insurance, and 44.6 million on food stamps and other nutrition programs. Some 24 million get the earned-income tax credit, a cash income supplement.

    By 2010 such payments to individuals were 66% of the federal budget, up from 28% in 1965. (See the second chart.) We now spend $2.1 trillion a year on these redistribution programs, and the 75 million baby boomers are only starting to retire.

    We suspect that in the 1960s as now—with ObamaCare—liberals knew they had created fiscal time-bombs. They simply assumed that taxes would keep rising to pay for it all, as they have in Europe.”

  8. Roco,

    What’s the good idea? Privatization?

    I DID put money aside in a private account and lost a good portion of it when we had the meltdown of many of our financial institutions a few years ago. My husband lost money too. Our tax dollars had to pay to bail out those same private institutions. BTW, many pension funds lost money BECAUSE of some the unethical and incompetent people who worked for those private financial institutions.

  10. More on Thomas R. Saving:

    http://politicalcorrection.org/mobile/factcheck/201106060004

    Additional Economists On New Boehner List Signed 2003 Letter Calling 2003 Bush Tax Cuts “Fiscally Responsible.” The following economists signed both John Boehner’s letter and a letter to George W. Bush calling the Bush tax cuts “fiscally responsible.” Note that Economists who also signed Boehner’s first list of 150 economists are not included:

    Todd G. Buchholz
    Samantha Carrington
    Joel Hay
    Coldwell Daniel, III
    Stephen J. Dempsey
    John B. Egger
    David Malpass
    George R. Neumann
    Seth W. Norton
    Larry Lindsey
    Thomas R. Saving
    Clifford F. Thies
    Leo Troy
    Michael E. Williams
    Gary J. Santoni
    Robert Haney Scott
    Michael Wohlgenant
    Gene C. Wunder

    [Speaker Boehner letter, 6/1/11; The White House, 2/12/03]

  11. should read not just beneficial to the rich.

    But either way it doesnt matter. Rich and poor are individuals and in my mind what is good for one individual, if it is a sound idea, is good for all individuals.

  12. Elaine:

    so a good idea is a bad idea because it is supported by republicans?

    Do you know that if you put the same amount of money into a private account [your share and the employer share] you would have far more money at retirement than you do now? Any one with a job would have more money and more importantly it would be theirs. They could leave it to their children or grandchildren or go and buy house or whatever.

    Privatization of SS, tax cuts, deregulation and other free market solutions are not just beneficial to the poor. Do you see what is going on right now? It is because of economic policies antithetical to wealth creation. Most rich people were poor at one point, they want other people to have the same opportunities they had.

    I hope your teachers pension doesnt go broke. If it does you might wish you had put that money away in a private account. Or maybe your state has a private pension fund?

  13. More about Thomas R. Saving:

    Thomas R. Saving is a professor of Economics at Texas A&M University. He is simultaneously a Senior Fellow at the National Center for Policy Analysis – a central institution of the conservative/Republican movement – and a “Distinguished” professor of Economics at Texas A&M.

    He is now (July 2001) a member of George W. Bush’s “commission” on the privatization of Social Security. Saving is already a Trustee of the Social Security and Medicare Trust Funds.

    http://old.mediatransparency.org/personprofile.php?personID=104

    *****

    National Center for Policy Analysis
    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/national-center-policy-analysis

    A right wing think tank with programs devoted to privatization in the following issue areas: taxes, Social Security and Medicare, health care, criminal justice, environment, education, and welfare.

    Right-wing foundations funding includes: Bradley, Scaife, Koch, Olin, Earhart, Castle Rock, and JM Foundations

  14. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903554904576458294273264416.html

    “So, when the president says that thanks to the debt ceiling “there may simply not be the money in the coffers” to send out the $20 billion in August Social Security checks, he either does not understand the way the system works, or the administration intends to spend the money on something else.”

    Mr. Saving is director of the Private Enterprise Research Center at Texas A&M University and served two terms as a public trustee of the Social Security and Medicare Trust Funds. He is also a senior fellow with the National Center for Policy Analysis.

  15. Feel free to jump all over this, but it occurs to me that President Obama might take charge by using his veto power, and then invoking the 14th Amendment to simply raise debt ceiling with no strings attached…

  16. One thing I noticed is that the world is watching this financial buffoonery about the same as the U.S. public, which is with astonishment.

    It is increasing the call for the removal of the U.S. Dollar as the world’s reserve currency.

  20. From our local paper this headline:

    Moran: President Obama needs a dose of Chris Christie
    Published: Tuesday, August 02, 2011, 6:23 AM Updated: Tuesday, August 02, 2011, 9:41 AM
    By Tom Moran/ The Star-Ledger

    http://blog.nj.com/njv_tom_moran/2011/08/president_obama_needs_a_dose_o.html

    My comment:

    “eniobob August 02, 2011 at 9:27AM
    Follow
    Governor Christie has yet to be put under pressure,so therefore because he seems to get his way he’s no way dealing with what the President is dealing with.I totally agree he got rolled once again and if the Repubs come up with a credible candidate he may also have to find a new residence for he and his family come 2012.What really ticks me off about this whole situation with the President when he was elected he was held up as a beacon to minority youth in particular and all youth in general that no matter your circumstance you to could become President.

    He has shown no spine,he should be conforntational with the opposition,lose your cool once in awhile to let people know you are not playing games.Let the “hood” out once in awhile.But being that he hasn’t done it,he will continue to be a”cave man”.

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