-Submitted by David Drumm (Nal), Guest Blogger
Goshen College in Indiana, a member of the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities, has banned The Star Spangled Banner at all sporting events. The main value with which the college seeks to be identified with is: Christ-centered.
Although Christianity and patriotism do not appear mutually exclusive, there are inherent philosophical conflicts. Devotion to one’s god and devotion to one’s country can be opposing forces. Many Christians place devotion to God above all others, including country.
The Christian denomination, Jehovah’s Witnesses, is a group whose beliefs preclude swearing loyalty to any power other than God. Hence, they refuse to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
The first of the Ten Commandments, “you shall have no other gods before me,” is in direct conflict with the First Amendment guarantee that an individual has the right to freely express their religious beliefs. Many military chaplains, sworn to uphold the constitution, are resigning rather than support the equal protection that is manifested by the repeal of DADT.
Same-sex marriage, opposed by many Christians as being against God’s will, is in conflict with the Fourteenth Amendment’s equal protection clause. The principles that constitute this country, as enumerated in the constitution, and the principles of God’s law, as enumerated in the Bible, are often irreconcilable.
Ironically, religion and patriotism have many similarities. Both eschew reason. Both treat submission as a virtue. The Pledge of Allegiance is recited like a catechism. George Washington is often called the father of this country. Like the Bible, the Constitution is treated like a object of reverence. Like the Bible, the Constitution is cherry-picked to suit the biases of the individual reader.
Samuel Johnson famously referred to patriotism as “the last refuge of the scoundrel.” The same can be said about religion.
H/T: NBC Washington.
I think it rained for one minute at my house the other day.
I have seen lots of rain….CCR has a great song…..
Think Virginia is just getting rain. They should be okay.
When the U.S. Constitution was ratified, a religious test for public office existed in 11 of the 13 colonies/states.
The New Jersey Constitution of 1776 restricted public office to all but Protestants by its religious test/oath.
The Delaware, Pennsylvania, Vermont and Maryland Constitutions demanded an acceptance of the Trinity by its religious test/oath.
The North Carolina Constitution of 1776 had a test/oath that restricted all but Protestants from public office.
The Georgia Constitution of 1777 used an oath/test to screen out all but Protestants.
The South Carolina Constitution of 1778 had such a test/oath allowing only Protestants to hold office.
The Massachusetts Constitution of 1780 and New Hampshire Constitution of 1784 restricted such office holders to Protestants.
Only Virginia and New York did not have such religious tests/oaths during this time period. The Protestant religion does not require their followers to accept the Trinity.
The reason the U.S. Constitution did not have a religious test for office was a matter of compromise. It was not the Framers dislike of a religious test. It was a matter of getting the Constitution accepted by a sufficient number of states.
I don’t know if God does or does not exist. The Atheist are no more correct in their beliefs than are the Muslims. Both are based on a personal belief.
The First Amendment restricts the interference of “Congress”. Congress is defined in the Constitution. Congress is not the states.
AY,
The deserted island that Gilligan may trap them could be NYC!
Good story David. If Washington is the Father of the country, who is the Mother?
Mike S.,
I grew up in Skokie, IL and in my public high school Christians were in the minority and Jewish students were a significant majority. In September the school was almost empty during the Jewish religious holidays in the later part of the month. Although it did seem like a small amount of Irish-American students took advantage of that unofficial day off!
Speaking about Battle Hymn of the Republic, Blouise, I wonder how Mark and the Professor and doing…are they fairing well with Irene….or will Gilligan trap them on some deserted Isle…..
And if no one has caught the sarcasm yet, I give you :
OS Did not even notice it. Some of them are male preachers.
SwM
That is a great Freudian slip: “…to meat with wealthy anti-gay evangelicals.”
Then there’s Onward Christian Soldiers
http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/08/rick-perry-the-evangelicals-a.html Perry heads to ranch near Fredericksburg to meat with wealthy anti-gay evangelicals.
“The First Amendment says if you want to be a politician, you can’t tell people who to worship.”
Martin,
I think your response ignores American history and this comment in answer to Fruit flies Like Pears comment I think has equal weight here when discussing the threat that exists to our religious freedom if Fundamentalist Christians are able to again redefine the First Amendment.
“The problem we have now is the whole ‘separation between church and state’ issue is upside down. Originally, this was meant to keep the government out of church issues. Now twisted people invert the principle and use it to extract freedom of religion from the public. A teacher can make fun of a students religious beliefs but can’t talk about religious issues in the positive.” [Comment on the Ninth Circuit Appeals thread today by FFLP]
I grew up Jewish in the 50′s. Anti-Jewish laws, actions and feelings were only just beginning to become ameliorated in the US. There were still hotels and businesses that wouldn’t admit Jews and some towns had signs saying Jews and dogs weren’t welcome, but general anti-Jewish feelings had simmered down as the public was entertained by a host of Jewish superstars and sympathy for the Shoah was widespread. Obviously though, for many years Jews weren’t allowed the same religious freedom as Christians.
In the time I grew up there were also things called “Blue Laws” that decreed that many businesses couldn’t open on Sunday. The Jewish Sabbath is Saturday. Businesses owned by Jews and services needed by Jews were not available to them due to laws enforcing a Christian Sabbath. Was this “separation of Church and State”?
In my elementary school, made up of 50% of Jewish students, yet with an Administration and Teachers primarily Christian, we Jewish children were forced to trim class Christmas Trees, partake in Secret Santa, sing Carols in the auditorium and participate/sit through Christmas plays. Easter time too had like celebrations and no as a Jewish kid I wasn’t into dying Easter Eggs. By the way Hanukkah, Passover and the Jewish High holy days were never mentioned.
I have no doubt that this to you are excellent examples of “separation of Church and State” for in the end the reasoning of many Christians, defines religion as Christianity and this country as a Christian Country. It was through the legal actions of Jews, the ADL and the ACLU that these practices, which I assume you mourn, were taken out of American practices precisely because of separation of Church and State.
If you sense a certain tinge of anger in my detailing the experiences of my childhood you are correct. I grew up in a home where my parents never monitored my reading. By the age of ten i had read the Gospels and other books of the Christian Canon. I was curious about Christianity, not in the sense of being beckoned by its siren call (I wasn’t), but in trying to understand where Christians were coming from religiously. They
did not move me at all, but that’s me and I have no doubt that many Christians find great meaning and comfort from them.
My anger stems from the fact that Christianity has for most of two thousand years persecuted my ancestors and that my own parents grew up in an America of legalized prejudice against Jews, even though it supposedly guarantees freedom of religion. My anger stems from the fact that if you and your co-religionists are again allowed to impose your definition of separation of church and state, I will have to worry over the fates of my progeny.
I wonder what his views are on the Battle Hymn of the Republic …
“On Aug. 19, 2011, President Brenneman announced at the all-employee brunch that “America the Beautiful” would be played before select sports events starting in Fall 2011. The Board of Directors unanimously endorsed President Brenneman’s decision that the first verse of “America the Beautiful” be played or sung with the U.S. flag present. A brief prayer may be offered at the discretion of the coach. ”
http://www.goshen.edu/anthem/
Is this anything more than the “separation of church and state”, that this site was touting a few posts ago on the topic of Sharia Law in Lybia?
Legality and morality are not the same, obviously.
As far as “cherry-picking”, do you mean that a casual reader of the Constitution reads each statement as an absolute rather than seeing how it is limited by other priorities? For example, how one is free to assemble to present grievances outside the White House as long as one doesn’t block the view of the fountain? The courts have held that this is an insubstantial infringement, in White House Vigil for the ERA, No. 84-5271, and hence all the arrests.
Funny that the chaplains resign rather than be thought to support DADT, but don’t mind being thought to support killing your enemy.
As far as eschewing reason, can a scoundrel have two “last refuges”?
C+
When I was in grade school there was a kid there who would not stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance because of his religion (may have been 7th Day Adventist but its nearly 50 years so I forget). This earned him an ass-kicking from some of the good Christian kids in school. I saw his point when he tried to explain his churches view, citing the 1st commandment. But that didn’t cut it with some kids.
Nal:
Good example to prove the point. We are seeing the inevitable conflict developing between allegiance to a religion and allegiance to one’s secular community. That is the inherent evil in any loyalty based on irrationality. To be loyal to one’s family, societal group, or community has many rational underpinnings. To be loyal to a First Century view of the world or a fairy tale “sky daddy” has none. Religiosity (not the philosophy, itself) is the enemy of democracy as Jefferson explained:
“History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.”
~Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.
“The first of the Ten Commandments, [you shall have no other gods before me] is in direct conflict with the First Amendment guarantee that an individual has the right to freely express their religious beliefs.”
Nonsense.
The First Commandment says if you want to be a Jew, you have to worship Jehovah.
The First Amendment says if you want to be a politician, you can’t tell people who to worship.
Well when they are in Mr. Lou Cyphers home what can be said…Christianity and Rationality are Mutually Exclusive….