Campus Republicans at the University of California Berkeley have reportedly received threats after creating a novel form of protests against California schools considering race in admissions. The students created a sale of baked goods priced according to their race: white men for $2.00, Asian men for $1.50, Latino men for $1.00, black men for $0.75 and Native American men for $0.25. All women will get $0.25 off those prices.
The Associated Students of the University of California, held an emergency Senate meeting late Sunday to pass a resolution that “condemns the use of discrimination whether it is in satire or in seriousness by any student group.”
I have difficulty with a condemnation (and certainly physical threats by some individuals) over satire. There is a good faith disagreement over race criteria in admissions. This group found a way to dramatize the unfairness and arbitrariness of such policies. It is not actual discrimination but a satire to drive home their point. What do you think?
UPDATE: if the bake sale was not a hit with some people as a political idea, it proved a great marketing ideal. The bake sale sold out.
Source: CNN
Josh, check your own tables, they don’t show major gains for anyone in a protected class. I’m not sure what they’re supposed to show.
Mespo:
you are very far off base.
mespo727272 writes:
“I think you have the right to be insensitive, demeaning, historically blind, and callous, but no right to be free from the scorn of those who aren’t.”
Indeed, just as you and others of your ilk have every right to be self-righteous, illogical, naive, and resentful, but no right to be free from the scorn of those who are not.
By the way, nice sleight of hand, there, in your use of the word “scorn”. You’ll note that the post does not mention mere scorn, but actual threats. Perhaps physical threats and violence are unacceptable form of “scorn”, for you? The impeccably impartial and rigorous logic you employ when, while hiding behind your computer, you accuse others of wearing “white hoods”, is also most impressive. Your faction is quite fortunate to have you.
Josh Brock:
Of course, history and social statistics prove you’re wrong about the ravages of discrimination and even in 2011, but you are right about anon’s totally inability to argue coherently. You are right that academia continues to point up the discrimination in our society but you could learn as much from watching the news and the right’s treatment of our first African-American President. I suppose we should disregard the scholarly work of learned people and take your rant as true. Like most people with any sense, I’ll decline. One thing I must acknowledge in your favor however is the ease at which you can see to type your screed through a white hood. Quite impressive.
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0714.pdf
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=72
I closed other tabs and too lazy to dig through my history, but I had some other citations. You guys can take a look at these and figure out where they’re application and what not. I’m going to bed.
I side with the college kids and anon, while vehemently disagreeing with Meso.
“Starting gun goes off earlier for some.”
I do not find this to be an accurate analogy anymore. I assert that whites and other minority races, specifically blacks because of the long standing history of discrimination in the USA, are now on equal footing with white americans in most everyway. In regards to college education a person with any kind of handicap (this case a variety of factors such as income, living area, etc etc supposedly caused by being born in to minority communities) can easily access this system and whites have been doing it for a long time before. Furthermore Affirmative action perpetuates negative singular type views of minorities and actually gives credit to bigots and more harm to the minority groups than good. This situation will, I beleive, improve within two generations to the point that Affirmative action will no longer be neccesary and seem to lawmakers like a relic of a by gone age.
College falls on the family, because it is expensive. The financial aid system currently expects a large contribution from your family, measures the income of a whole household, when determining what amount if any will be awared to a student in federal funds. This becomes important because ultimately income and the priority of college to your family, decide whether a student, if born in to poverty, attends college at all. There a thousands of white families in poverty as well as black family. In pure amount, impoverished white families around the country outnumber significantly the amount of impoverish black families. Not statistics, raw numbers. Any person in the income bracket could obtain the full amounts of federal grants which can pay for an entire community college education and there is absolutely nothing stopping a person of any race from using a library computer to access the internet and apply for federal aid. None. So all people of all color have access to the same starting funding and essentially a whole basic college education based upon an application in which you can choose not to disclose race.
Culturally, white males in the USA have attending college as the cherry on top of the education, not even for vocational training. It used to be a symbol of the upper class white man but, for the reasons discussed above, can no longer be. Its more accessible than ever. Why are these basic tools not utilized by minorities as frequently? Because it hasnt been their family’s tradition to attend college. When the FAFSA calculates your income, decides that your family needs to contribute a given amount and none has been saved, there is nothing a student can do outside of loans. White culture has, as I stated, held college education highly for over one hundred years in the USA. Many families save for their children to attend college and have for the same span of time. THOSE families will contribute when FAFSA time rolls around but in a culture in which, only three or four generations ago, the entire population was slaves there will be no such thinking and the numbers support this conclusion.
Because minority students are not well respsented at high level education one may be led to beleive they are being kept out through a policy of discrimination. Not only does that sound absurd in 2011 for an internationally recognized and respect college or just a local public community college it ignores the fact that the majority of students attending high level colleges come from far above poverty, or average income households. Not being privileged does not mean that a person is not equal. White privilege is a misnomer because the vast majority of the underpriveleged are white. I already stated above that every person of any race has the chance to get an education and get out of poverty for their familie’s future’s sake. Not every person, regardless of race, can avoid to attend Yale and win prestige for their family. Not mention debt, college is impractical now because of the cost.
The concept of AA is also outdated because being against it, a common conservative political view, ingraines in those with poor reasoning an opinion against AA without understanding the implications of it. This breeds biggotry and why I dont hold support of AA and the branding of posters like anon against fools like Meso because you will often find bigots in these politcal circles. Its only the symptom of an outdated idea chaffing those ready to do away with it for the greater good. The old system of racism is LITERALLY dying out and within generations there wont even be anyone from the civil rights movement left. Think of how foreign an reprehensible slavery is to you. So will the idea of education being inequal.
It also enforces these single view stereotypes of minority groups as being less capable and generally inferior to whites and neeeding a ‘hand up’ in the world. We now live in a Post-Race era (not my term, I forget the name of the speaker I’m referencing here but I’m no plagarist) which means that as many different people as there are that belong to a race, there are that many ways to “be” that race. One doesnt have to adhere to stereotypes, the cultural of their race or any other tropes in this modern world. Any person can be themselves and race is an aspect of that, not a definition of them as a person as it once was. However we as a society are easily reminded of such stereotypes and AA unfortunately implies negative and singular views of minorities.
All the slaves are dead. I think the last child of a slave died recently. White guilt is somethign created by academia and perpetuated by AA and other things. Blacks are on the top of music, sports, and entertainment and show no sign of slowing their explosion. Mass education access and the internet ensure that future generations will not be able to forget the tradgedy of slavery and other acts of discrimination but acknowledgment that such groups are EQUAL is a powerful thing. As Martin Luther King Jr. said “We may all have gotten here on different ships but we’re all in the SAME BOAT NOW.”
For all of the reasons, Meso, you are a limosine marxist and a general douche. Anon sees a therapist and cant argue well, so what? You’re still wrong.
“…even though he is from the upper crust….he is a mercenary…his mind set just flat out scares the hell out of me…But I am sure that their are more folks out there than we realize….” -AY
AY,
Regarding your last point, oh yeah… definitely more than we realize. An apt phrase, “justified entitlement”… There are way too many who seem to feel that that they are justifiably entitled to do whatever the hell they want.
AN,
I agree with this statement totally….But, something missed by a lot of folks…is…in that particular mind set…it is “Justified Entitlement”….. I know a child/man that, I won’t consider a friend…more of an acquaintance or I just know them…he used to be just devious….He thought nothing of shooting people in the ass with a pellet gun…that was his entertainment….he had nothing else to really prove….well…inside of his mind he did….even though he is from the upper crust….he is a mercenary…his mind set just flat out scares the hell out of me…But I am sure that their are more folks out there than we realize….
I know a OBGYN that had nothing better to do than become a Dr….He lives off of old oil money…and this has been since the late 60’s/ early 70’s….He chose a different path….His kids not so much..
Children of privilege frequently have a hard time understanding the fact that the starter’s gun fires earlier for some than for others. -Mike Appleton
Very nicely put…
Mark Esposito, mespo727272,
Dude, you made some ugly remarks. When this was pointed out, instead of acknowledging them, and apologizing, you first went on the ignore path, then the attack path.
And though you now attack me for some throw away comments I made about my experiences in marriage counseling with some therapists.
Though you pick at statements I made about therapists,
Well, I stand by those statements, and I am still proud I went to marriage counseling with my ex, although I largely found the therapists useless and futile. And you’re right, it is to my deep regret, and it is my long lasting shame that I could not make my marriage work.
How about you Mark Esposito, mespo727272, are you as proud and stand by your statements calling Marcus Bachmann “an obviously gay porky pig?”
Are you still proud of that statement Mark? Because the way you hit back against me, makes me suspect you’re deeply ashamed of being caught making that statement. But being an unethical coward with no integrity, instead of taking responsibility, you flail instead at the messenger.
So go ahead Mark, Counselor Esposito, ask any question you wish about my marriage. Impugn away.
It’s not like honest Americans haven’t seen your tactics or your type before.
And I honestly hope you never find yourself in the sort of marital dilemma and custody battle I have found myself in repeatedly.
PIck away Mark.
Mespo, I can see how you might think the best defense is a good offense, which is why you go after me for going through marriage counseling, but all you need to do to deflect everyone from your homophobic statements Mark, is say, I was a total dumbshit that moment for calling Bachman a gay porky pig, and I apologize to the community.
Since you’re an arrogant fuck lawyer, you can’t do that simple task we expect of every other grownup in 2011.
So carry on with your cross counselor.
I’m sorry, I couldn’t hear you, what was that you said?
http://jonathanturley.org/2011/09/14/bachmann-attacks-perry-for-giving-girls-anti-cancer-vaccine-a-retardation/#comment-267900
Apologies in advance but, query: Will continued public dancing with an obviously gay Porky Pig lead to retardation?
Man o man, Mark, that comment of yours, and my pointing out what a bigoted hypocritical homophobe you are really has your undies in a twist.
Go with the flow mespo, just what problem did these marriage counselors say I have?
Oh yeah, the born again Christian told me that giving a six year old a shoulder ride was inappropriate because her vagina was too close to my neck. A six year old. In a synagogue’s social hall. During a simcha.
Yeah, you must be hell on wheels on cross examination.
Thank you, Gene H. Compliment humbly accepted.
mespo,
Some day I’d like to go watch you in court. You must be Hell on Wheels come cross-examination. And no, I’m not calling you Helen . . .
anon:
“Really, again with your internet psychoanalysis, and even when you still haven’t read what I wrote about who these therapists were?”
*********************
I read who they are. They’re professionals who said you have a problem. You reject those opinions because you are smarter than they. It’s really quite simple and quite revealing.
I admit, I thought it funny, and usually I don’t get republican humor. I think Roco has the right idea, find a way to play with it and make your point.
mespo, there’s a difference that most humans understand between my making remarks about my own therapy, and you make remarks about a person’s therapy when you are having a dispute with them.
Why am I telling you this? You’re Mr. Sensitivity and would never make an ugly insensitive remark.
One wonders if you’re saying they need you more than you need them. It sure looks like it, and if that’s the case a man with you impeccable credentials in making psychological diagnoses surely knows we’re talking about a differential diagnois involving at least the possibility of egomania or narcissistic personality disorder. Bet you heard those words through the banter with your shrink. Come on what is it? Professional envy?
Really, again with your internet psychoanalysis, and even when you still haven’t read what I wrote about who these therapists were?
You’re quite the little stalker.
anon.:
If you said you were seeing a therapist, I would not make snarky little wise-ass remarks about it and wonder what the two of you said, I’d say I hope you are finding value and progressing ….
******************
I wouldn’t either and your last sentence is exactly what I’d say. You, however, didn’t say that. Instead you said lots more and went to great lengths to explain to us your complete mastery of these professionals with your “takedonwns of their education and philosophies and techniques.” You then treated us to even more bravado with your observation that “Anyway, I’ve always been impressed [sic] with therapists, it’s the ultimate do nothing job. Sit down, stoned or drunk, behind their “client” and doodle away on pads that no one will ever see all while wearing their diapers.”
One wonders if you’re saying they need you more than you need them. It sure looks like it, and if that’s the case a man with you impeccable credentials in making psychological diagnoses surely knows we’re talking about a differential diagnois involving at least the possibility of egomania or narcissistic personality disorder. Bet you heard those words through the banter with your shrink. Come on what is it? Professional envy?
Keep talking anon, you’re quite the case study.
Yes, undoubtedly you’re right mespo, you can tell so much from one missing “/”, especially on a html enabled blog that doesn’t permit preview.
Likewise, we can tell so much from when you write “gay porky pig” and then spend days attacking me for pointing out how insensitive, arrogant, and stereotyping that was.
We can tell from your argument fail on this particular thread how often you resort to smears when you got nothing. How often you run away when asked to provide evidence. How you can’t put a logical argument together, or even remember that argument an hour or so later. And how you can’t even comprehend the nature of a simple comment when you think one “anon” is different from the “anon” that posted just before or just after the “anon” you like.
But I think you’re right, my missing a slash in my html is evidence of an enormous character flaw on my part.
But since we now know you demand perfection, then there really is no excuse on your part for posting that “gay porky pig” comment about a guy with a weight problem and a slight lisp and then refusing to express the slightest regret over it except that you’re a gay bashing homophobic bigot that hides behind the skirts of giants.
We can’t rule it out as an irrelevant, regrettable, not a big deal past remark, because here you are, projecting and psychoanalyzing me over a missing “/”.
On the other hand, you certainly come off as stalkerish enough, and obsessed enough, that I can well believe you when you say you want to talk to my newest therapist.
You seem like just the snot nosed little big brother friendly pissant lawyer that would want that information to better abuse people you dislike that you consider as oppressors. Why not root around in their business? Greater good.
Well, I consider that none of my business.
If you said you were seeing a therapist, I would not make snarky little wise-ass remarks about it and wonder what the two of you said, I’d say I hope you are finding value and progressing through that.
And had you read what I wrote and were able to understand it, it might inform you a bit more about the nature of my relationship with those therapists and whether they are ongoing or not.