-Submitted by David Drumm (Nal), Guest Blogger
Posthumous proxy baptism is a religious practice where a living person, acting as proxy, is baptized on behalf on a dead person. It is currently practiced by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon Church), who submit names for the ordinance. The vicarious ordinance for the deceased have included Holocaust victims, prominent Nazis, and well known Jews such as Albert Einstein.
It has been discovered that the name of Elie Wiesel, Holocaust survivor and Nobel Peace Prize winner, had been entered into the database but not submitted for baptism. Wiesel said, “I object fervently. It’s an outrage.” Wiesel wants Romney to speak out on the subject of the baptisms. Wiesel claims he’s still alive.
Those who practice this rite view baptism as an indispensable requirement to enter the Kingdom of God and believe that baptizing the dead will satisfy this requirement. The justification for this belief comes from 1 Corinthians 15:29, though Biblical scholars question the verse’s translation and meaning.
The outrage is that anyone would take this practice seriously. Either the practice works and the dead person enters the Kingdom of God, apparently a desirable outcome, or it doesn’t work and nothing happens. Those who object to the rite seem to be fearing the former outcome for there is no reason to object to the latter.
None of this brouhaha is about the dead.
H/T: Howard Friedman, HuffPo, Jesus and Mo.
If you don’t really believe in baptism, how is this harmful to you–wouldn’t this be just a crazy meaningless ritual, no different than someone praying for you without your permission? Let Mormons waste their time and money.
Oro Lee,
Now enters the poorly ínformed.
The concept of heaven is not part of Judaism, I believe.
The rewards of an “pure” life is found only here and now, not later.
Did Jesus really promise life after death? I thought he “only” promised to return, to lead them (most would still be living then) in a victory of righteousness, etc.
And I’ve had always a problem with the resurrection in heaven.
What carnal form (it was the body to be resurrected I believe) shall I be in?
And what “pleasure” shall I receive.
The own planet and many wives and spirit babies sounds like fun.
No diapers to change. Apparently no periods, no need for Viagra, etc.
Thanks for the tip. I’ll be friendlier on their next visit.
I dont know. Oh heck. Little prayer here and there for dead folks. We dogs in the dog pack call it hedging bets. Kinda like having two dog tags–one has the guy Pals number and the other the gal Pals phone number. There is not a single Mormon in our pack. Actually dogs dont buy into religion per se. We know about reincarnation and recall our past lives. If we were a good human we can choose to come back as a dog in a civilized part of the world where the humanoids dont eat dogs. If we are a bad dog we usually come back as a human. So, you might wonder, if we dont believe in religion then who decides all these matters? We are dyslexic as well. You got it. Dog–the big guy in the sky.
Just a dog talkin, dont bear no mind
but do mind the bears
It’s even weirder and more offensive than all that’s been said. Entering the kingdom of God or the kingdom of heaven is a Christian faith-based concept; other religions employ a work-based model to get to the same place. Some folks use a model where the believer becomes God, or a God. Like LDS.
From the book “The Godmakers” which I read a really long time ago and remember very imperfectly, LDS has this belief: “As Jesus was, man is; as Jesus is, man may become”. By perfectly keeping a bunch of commandments before he (sorry, ladies excluded) dies and a bunch more after he dies, a Mormon becomes God of his own planet. His earthly wife (wives) are perpetually pregnant with spirit-babies who become people on the new planet. Where do spirit babies come from? Proxy baptisms.
These beliefs help to explain a few odd facts. LDS has one of the highest rates of suicide among the faithful — who can keep all those commandments perfectly? And one of the highest rates of divorces — er, annulments — who wants to married to a guy who isn’t going to become a God?
Ritual, emotionally appealing and supportive of your creed, gives the “believers” support. Activity is also addictive in this case. They, who knows, might even get an hormonal or pleasure center kick.
The ways of the holistic person are mysterious.
In the meanwhile they’re not fornicating, etc. Maybe it even makes money for LDS. Do they send bills to the deceased baptized’s estate?
Typical silly behavior for a religion founded by a man seeking gold with a magic stick.
This Mormon practice does seem weird beyond words. But using Elie Weisel as a poster child for being offended doesn’t get us too far down the road. Weisel has a few demons of his own to work out.
http://www.loonwatch.com/2009/10/why-did-eli-wiesel-speak-at-cufi/
What Mike S. said! It takes a lot of stones for the Mormons to “save” everyone. They should worry about themselves.
I understand Mike’s comments too.
How would a person feel if someone walked up to them and “laid hands on” them to cast out a demon?
It would presuppose we have a demon, a conclusion we would not necessarily agree with, thus the insult.
They are at least of the opinion that they are doing those folks a favor posthumously.
That isn’t the questionable part.
The questionable part is that it is imaginary.
Why not just imagine that either the coroner’s or the funeral director’s washing of the body is sufficient?
As a Jew this practice has enraged me since I first learned of it in the 90’s. We are a people persecuted for our beliefs for thousands of years, only to have it come to a climax with the Shoah, where Jews were slaughtered with a methodical factory-like program of murder. For the LDS to have done this is a sign of ultimate disrespect and hubris. Sadly, I am positive that they have no notion of why Jews would feel this way. The fact that this program also includes many, many no-Jews is proof I think of an ultimate religious program that threatens this country. To get more insight read the excellent book “The Mormon Murders” by Y Times reporter Steven Naifeh. It gives a good reporter’s take on what he found when he investigated convicted forger and murderer Mark Hoffman. In the process he laid bare the workings of the LDS.
I’ve been doing research on ancestors, some of it thru the LDS database. I wondered about the comments that come with some of the records. Now I know. They’re folks who have been baptized w/o their consent.
I’ve never been baptized and don’t want to be, especially after I’m dead and can’t object. Guess I have to let extended family members who are LDS know. Or will that just encourage them? Maybe it’s time for a discussion.
Frankly’s right. It’s disrespectful and creepy.
I can just see the posters:
“Support your blessed government. March 15th is Tithings Day for all.”
I know, it’s ridiculous, laughable…..
But it we allow a theo-state to arise, resistance will quickly disappear.
Churdes are cheaper to finance than campaigns.
Religion is admirable, from a vvvvvveeeerrrryyyyy long distance.
But think of the quaint cultural enrichment we wil gain.
Surely resulting in more profits for Amuhcan industry.
Not to mention the blessed increases in usury.
Etc. etc.
I agree with frankly. It is downright creepy.
….especially in the case of Elie Wiesal who has already survived the debasement of lower thinking ‘humans’ once already.
———————————————————————
make that ‘….especially in the case of Elie Wiesal who has already survived the debasement of lower thinking ‘humans’ beyond reason, already.
Wiesel has every right to be outraged. I can’t imagine what a living person being placed on this list mayt interpret by that action….especially in the case of Elie Wiesal who has already survived the debasement of lower thinking ‘humans’ once already. It is a huge affront but in the end I think most understand that it says more about the cretins that would put him on such a list in the first place.
It is a good time for politicians to draw the line between church, state, and what belongs to the confines of what is personal and not meant for the workings of others.
I agree:
” Wiesel said, “I object fervently. It’s an outrage.” Wiesel wants Romney to speak out on the subject of the baptisms. Wiesel claims he’s still alive.”
The problem is Romney won’t dare address an issue like this.Can you imagine ?
There is another reason to object that you missed. Some people are concerned that people are messing with their deeply held beliefs. It is extremely disrespectful and actually pretty creepy.
I’d just point and laugh at stupidity like baptizing the dead against their own wishes. Thats all this foolishness deserves, derision.
this is a sad state of affairs…..