The debate over Virginia’s new abortion bill is raging. While there are good-faith debates over the scope of state authority vis-a-vis women in cases of abortion, the legislation would appear to require an invasive ultrasound procedure for women in the first 12 weeks of a pregnancy — tipping the scales in terms of the burden on women. However, conservative CNN Contributor Dana Loesch went on the air this week to make the rather astonishing claim that such an involuntary procedure is no different from voluntary sex.
I have previously criticized CNN for its use of Nancy Grace as a legal analyst and show host. However, there remains a tendency on all cable shows to play to the extremes of political and legal analysis — degrading what are sometimes legitimate disagreements over constitutional law
On this occasion, Loesch (who is associated with Andrew Breitbart) defended the law against objections to the invasive procedure:
LOESCH: That’s the big thing that progressives are trying to say, that it’s rape and so on and so forth. […] There were individuals saying, “Oh what about the Virginia rape? The rapes that, the forced rapes of women who are pregnant?” What? Wait a minute, they had no problem having similar to a trans-vaginal procedure when they engaged in the act that resulted in their pregnancy.
There is an obvious difference between consensual sexual relations and an intrusive procedure ordered by the state. The premise of such comments appears to be that, like sex, abortion is a choice. Thus, Loesch stated simply “Don’t get an abortion and you don’t have to worry about any sort of mandated ultrasound.” However, the Supreme Court has said it is part of a protected right of privacy (albeit a right balanced against certain state interests).
Here is the tape:
There is a legal difference. It is also an example of how movement Republicans can differ from libertarian Republicans. Many Republicans (particularly women) would find this comment highly offensive. For civil libertarians and libertarians, there is no greater example of government intrusion than an invasive medical procedure. One can certainly argue over whether abortion is protected as a right by the Constitution, but this argument reflects a more fundamental difference on the scope of permissible government action. While the Tea Party (with which Loesch is also associated) has often been described as libertarian, the views of some members often embrace governmental power over civil liberties.
I understand the General Assembly is entertaining a Bill to change our name from the Commonwealth of Virginia to the Republican Diocese of Virginia. Catchy, don’t you think?
“To me, the gap between President Obama and these people [the GOP candidates] is so enormous that it’s a threat to our country to elect people who take such a silly view of the rest of the world,” he told The Huffington Post. Spoken by Russ Feingold.
http://www.burntorangereport.com/diary/11878/virginia-and-iowa-republicans-copy-texass-statesanctioned-rape-law “The only way to keep Republicans out of our lady business is to keep them out of office”
“Whorishness, in the wider sense, is widespread. Especially if you set the criterion at an appropriate level.
The example of people doing jobs, jobs they despise, or even jobs they love—-but doing them primarly (when it comes to the nitty-gritty) for money: for the house, the wife, the kids, their education, retirement. So who’s not a whore.
Now that’s an issue we’ve all faced and face now if we turn our heads.
It’s the same as the hunter-gatherer’s dilemma. Work or starve.
But what makes it interesting in one aspect is those folks who get irate at the attacks by dissenters who expose their particular employer, branch, party, etc. as being immoral or a public jeopardy, etc. And these dissenters threaten thereby their livelihood. To hell with what I said in support, they say, you don’t have the right to go public and jeopardize my job.
To hell with the nation and Vietnam, my job is (more?) important.
I could give examples, but don’t believe you need them.
So people or society change or are they cyclical?
First, this is CNN and whatever experience Prof Turley has had with them personally, they mostly go for cheap, loud, and shallow. So, no one should be surprised that they have some bargain basement house conservative who says stupid stuff.
Second, despite the occasional presence of a rank and file libertarian or even run-of-the mill conservative who cares about rights (e.g., the otherwise vile Ted Olson in the case of gay marriage), libertarians and certainly their organizations have never done any heavy lifting on abortion. beyond cutting taxes on the wealthy and perhaps marijuana legalization, they’ve shown no willingness to stick their necks out on abortion. And on contraception, Snowe & Collins have backed-off, using their reluctant debutante act.
The only reasonable response is to see that CNN is, on balance, a waste and that conservatives are hypocrites and to not even waste time being kind to CNN or trying to deconstruct the obviously ideologic “logic” of her argument.
You’re right, of course. Rational argument no longer works in a society comprised of large numbers of people who willingly submit to irrationality and are taught on a daily basis that anyone who disagrees with them is an instrument of Satan and an implaccable enemy in the War for God.
I truly believe that these attacks on women, like the endless lying of Fox News and GOP leaders, in general, have put us on the slide into totalitarianism. The tougher they make life for us, the less time, energy, and will most of their victims have to fight back. Occupy Wall Street was a good sign, but the unholy alliance between corporatists and sexual oppressors has taken over the public debate again.
Elections mean little any more, because everyone is intimidated by this totalitarian alliance.
At my advanced age, I see no solution except violent rebellion, and that is a losing proposition in a country where even a Democratic president is willing to use the military against his own people.
I had a transvaginal ultrasound last year. Was it in any way like voluntary sex? Good God NO! It was invasive, it was painful, and totally unpleasant. The technicians and doctors were all aware of the invasive nature of the test and did their best to keep the atmosphere as pleasant as possible.
As far as I am concerned, every single supporter of this cruel legislation should be charged as an accessory to mechanical rape and put in prison … thus separated from society, the rest of us can feel a little safer. As for the Church officials and members who back this legislation … your hell awaits after your prison term has ended.
onlooker, Ron Paul practices selective libertarianism. He does not extend his libertarian views to women. He is on the wrong side of the culture wars.
I hate to give in to the feeling, but this woman deserves to know what it is to be forceably penetrated and deeply humiliated! Oh, for a virtual reality machine we could force on her!
She apparently can’t imagine being anything other that a rich bitch who thinks she’ll always be on the side of those whom oppress others. She certainly can’t identify with the scared, the poor, the desperate, or even the thoughtful!
“Where are the libertarian republicans? They must be a vanishing breed.”
Very unfortunately, yes. Thus why Ron Paul can’t get any real traction there.
These people (as represented by this woman on CNN) are way out there. That party is lost. We desperately need another one to bring things back to sanity. Alas the two party system is well entrenched.
She assumes that all sex is voluntary. She assumes that all pregnancies are intentional.
How do they intend to enforce this law? Are they going to exam all patients’ medical records? Easy enough to do if they are all computerized.
I am preparing a post that shows that the nation is following the path that Jim Jones followed, which ended up in a mass suicide murder.
He began as a sane, caring person, but toxins slowly, over time turned him into a torturing madman.
That is not as much of a mystery as the phenomenon of the hundreds upon hundreds of people in his church congregation slowly evolving to the point where they allowed the abuse.
Eventually, couples were not allowed to have sex with each other, they had to have sex with others in front of the congregation.
There are a lot of similarities, lots of canaries in coal mine people.
I don’t know why the professional psychologists (Mike S is one exception) are not exposing the dangerous direction and course we have set.
How about:
MSNBC Contributor Amanda Marcotte believes that Duke Lacrosse players were guilt.
I have a friend who is a rape victim. You really do not want to know what she had to say about this. Suffice it to say it was something you could not put in a family newspaper.
“…Loesch (who is associated with Andrew Breitbart)…”
Say no more.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/us/virginia-bill-requiring-ultrasound-before-abortion-nears-vote.html Where are the libertarian republicans? They must be a vanishing breed. The republicans voted for the sonogram bill in Texas en masse, and it looks like they will do the same in Virginia. Both republican governors are for it too. It was one of Perry’s priorities.
This has to be the craziest thought I have ever heard of….. Reminds me of a Texas Judge giving a reduced sentence to a rapist because he complied with the victims request to put a condom on…. Crazy….then…crazy now…
Dana’s comments are bizarrely stupid, but then how does a Right Wing apologist defend what is a bizarrely stupid law? They double down. I have no idea of her sexual proclivities, but she is a whore, in that any associate of Breitbart’s must be whorish in nature. As we know being a whore need not have anything to do with sex, but merely the desire to sell oneself for material gain.
This is an outrageous example of how far the Republican Party has gone. This pundit is basically stating that women have no right to have sex and have no right to decide who puts what into their bodies. This women should be forced to have this procedure since I will assume that she has had consensual sex at least once in her life. This person is not an example of CNN playing to the extreme. She is the face of the new Teapublican party. Controlled by religion and corporations.
I hope she does not have a dog.
I don;t know what to say to this kind of convoluted thinking. These folks who want ‘smaller government’ will say anything to further their agenda and make it sound like it is no big thing. (And in the process further prove their desire to have women once again become chattel and nothing more.
I also seem to recall that there is still some debate about the safety of ultrasound for the fetus. Seems they care about the fetus unless they can maybe do something demeaning to a woman in he process.