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CNN Contributor Claims Ultrasound Intrusive Exam Under Virginia’s New Law Is No Different From Consensual Sex

The debate over Virginia’s new abortion bill is raging. While there are good-faith debates over the scope of state authority vis-a-vis women in cases of abortion, the legislation would appear to require an invasive ultrasound procedure for women in the first 12 weeks of a pregnancy — tipping the scales in terms of the burden on women. However, conservative CNN Contributor Dana Loesch went on the air this week to make the rather astonishing claim that such an involuntary procedure is no different from voluntary sex.

I have previously criticized CNN for its use of Nancy Grace as a legal analyst and show host. However, there remains a tendency on all cable shows to play to the extremes of political and legal analysis — degrading what are sometimes legitimate disagreements over constitutional law

On this occasion, Loesch (who is associated with Andrew Breitbart) defended the law against objections to the invasive procedure:

LOESCH: That’s the big thing that progressives are trying to say, that it’s rape and so on and so forth. […] There were individuals saying, “Oh what about the Virginia rape? The rapes that, the forced rapes of women who are pregnant?” What? Wait a minute, they had no problem having similar to a trans-vaginal procedure when they engaged in the act that resulted in their pregnancy.

There is an obvious difference between consensual sexual relations and an intrusive procedure ordered by the state. The premise of such comments appears to be that, like sex, abortion is a choice. Thus, Loesch stated simply “Don’t get an abortion and you don’t have to worry about any sort of mandated ultrasound.” However, the Supreme Court has said it is part of a protected right of privacy (albeit a right balanced against certain state interests).

Here is the tape:

There is a legal difference. It is also an example of how movement Republicans can differ from libertarian Republicans. Many Republicans (particularly women) would find this comment highly offensive. For civil libertarians and libertarians, there is no greater example of government intrusion than an invasive medical procedure. One can certainly argue over whether abortion is protected as a right by the Constitution, but this argument reflects a more fundamental difference on the scope of permissible government action. While the Tea Party (with which Loesch is also associated) has often been described as libertarian, the views of some members often embrace governmental power over civil liberties.

190 thoughts on “CNN Contributor Claims Ultrasound Intrusive Exam Under Virginia’s New Law Is No Different From Consensual Sex”

  1. One has to wonder what kinds of sexual experiences Loesch has had in her life if she thinks having a vaginal ultrasound is akin to having intimate relations with a man. Then again, maybe she doesn’t have intimate relations with men.

  3. CNN’s Dana Loesch: All your (non-virgin) vaginas belong to us
    by Joan McCarter
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/20/1065095/-CNN-s-Dana-Loesch-All-your-non-virgin-vaginas-belong-to-us-

    Excerpt:
    The Right’s War on Women really has become focused. It’s not just a general war on the gender, with trivial things like equal pay for equal work. No, it’s now reduced down the core. It’s all about your vagina.

    For example, see CNN’s latest monster, Breitbart protege Dana Loesch. Commenting on the proposed Virginia law that would require women seeking abortions be forced to undergo vaginal penetration by an ultrasound-wand wielding health care professional, Loesch says that once a woman has had sex, consensual or not, she’s given up all say on what happens down there.

    LOESCH: That’s the big thing that progressives are trying to say, that it’s rape and so on and so forth. […] There were individuals saying, “Oh what about the Virginia rape? The rapes that, the forced rapes of women who are pregnant?” What? Wait a minute, they had no problem having similar to a trans-vaginal procedure when they engaged in the act that resulted in their pregnancy.

    Sorry non-virgins, all your vaginas belong to the state now. Hell, with this reasoning, if you’ve used a tampon you’ve pretty much given up control. It’s not just soulless, attention seeking gasbags saying so, it’s the state. Here’s what one Virginia lawmaker said about the bill, as reported by Dahlia Lithwick.

    During the floor debate on Tuesday, Del. C. Todd Gilbert announced that “in the vast majority of these cases, these [abortions] are matters of lifestyle convenience.” (He has since apologized.) Virginia Democrat Del. David Englin, who opposes the bill, has said Gilbert’s statement “is in line with previous Republican comments on the issue,” recalling one conversation with a GOP lawmaker who told him that women had already made the decision to be “vaginally penetrated when they got pregnant.” […]
    There you go, women of America. If you’ve ever had sex, your vagina is fair game. You don’t get to say what happens to it now.

  5. In 2011, Texas legislators passed a similar bill requiring medical professionals to conduct an ultrasound, make a recording of the heartbeat and describe the fetus to their patient. A Texas court overturned that law on First Amendment grounds, but the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit reinstated it.
    ———————————————————————————————–

    and maybe they will just have the government pay for the procedure….so the poor woman who needs an abortion would still be able to afford one…..?

    …..just wondering……

    Also, who of our officials, elected and otherwise, are buying ownership or stock in the Ultrasound and Medical testing facilities?

  10. Don S. One republican voted against it. Two democrats voted for it. In Texas where no one seems to care, it was strictly by party line -all dems against.

  11. Idealist707, I thght you meant me. You have the right to ask but at that time. as a poor person using the clinic and medicaid you see fairly quickly that saying No may hurt you the next time you go there.

  12. Yeah, alot of these cockroaches are not scurrying. But for some this issue will come back to haunt them in their next campaign. I doubt the cockroaches and their allies expected this to go viral. Even the most conservative members know one thing; at least 50% of their constituents are women, and this issue has the potential to blur party line affiliations more than most.

    The bill:

    http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/295207-virginia-hb462.html

    was passed 63-36. The repub-dem breakdown is 67-32; I don’t know what the vote by party was.

    http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?121+vot+HV0765+HB0462

    I am having a hard time accessing current information on the legislative status and prospects.

  13. idealist707 – I think your comment was addressed to Carol, not me.

    anon nurse: “[5th circuit said] ‘Denying her up-to-date medical information is more of an abuse to her ability to decide than providing the information.’ If you accept that logic, then the same lawmakers who wrote the Texas law should require doctors to inform pregnant women that they can have an abortion.”

    Yes, you are absolutely correct! But more than that, shouldn’t she also have to watch a video of a C-section, a spinal puncture, an episiotomy, a Pitocin-induced labor, a messy diaper-change, a toddler temper tantrum and a teenage screaming fit, and a spreadsheet of 18+ years of costs?

  14. “I think the Bill was always just a ploy to mobilize the radical religious base in favor of the Republicans. “(mespo)

    Of course it is but … if there was no pushback, they’d pass it in a heartbeat and let it play out all the way up the line … some poor woman/women would be paying the price as the Courts “discussed” it.

  15. You know … this is part of the reason we need something done about our privacy rights. Politicians and church people should not be permitted to violate our privacy in this manner. They do not own our bodies, they do not own our health.

  16. Nal:

    I think the Bill was always just a ploy to mobilize the radical religious base in favor of the Republicans. They know it’s unconstitutional but they can say “hey, we’re trying but those nasty old judges won’t let us.” Lawyers are a convenient foil, you know. It’s a political game in an election year. There might be a watered down version but it’s unlikely.

    I understand from a Republican legislator friend of mine that there is considerable push back on this abortion bill from folks they never hear from. This isn’t MIssissippi. Not yet anyway.

  17. kathleen,

    Oh lord … that’s right, I forgot about the full bladder. Have to have another one in April as a follow-up to make certain everything is still alright. The first time around I didn’t know what to expect, though my doctor warned me. Now I know exactly what’s going to happen and I must admit, I am dreading it.

    Maybe I’ll invite a couple of priest’s mothers to go with me so they can report back as to how pleasant the whole experience was.

  18. February 21, 2012, 11:41 am

    Government-Mandated Medical Procedures

    By ANDREW ROSENTHAL

    http://loyalopposition.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/government-mandated-medical-procedures/?hp

    One common right-wing argument against President Obama’s policy requiring insurance coverage for birth control is that institutions should not be forced to pay for what they consider morally objectionable. It’s not about contraceptives, they say, it’s about government coercion.

    In that case, these same right-wing groups should, theoretically, express even more outrage about a policy that goes beyond coerced payment—a policy that actually compels physicians to provide, and women to undergo, an unwanted and unnecessary medical procedure.

    And yet, so far, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, the Republican candidates for president, and the Republican leadership in Congress have kept mum regarding a Virginia law that would do just that.

    Both houses have passed a bill that requires women seeking an abortion to undergo an ultrasound. Whoever performed the ultrasound would then have to offer the patient a chance to look at the resulting image.

    As Dahlia Lithwick noted last week, since most abortions take place in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, most women will be forced to submit to trans-vaginal ultrasounds, a coerced penetration that in other circumstances would constitute rape under Virginia state law. (Some of the arguments against the rape comparison are so deranged that I don’t want to repeat them. You can read about them here.)

    There has been a lot of criticism of this bill, but not from those who go ballistic over every other example of government-mandated health care. Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell, a right-winger who is sometimes talked about as a potential running mate for the eventual Republican nominee, is eager to sign this particularly creepy bit of Big Brotherism into law.

    In 2011, Texas legislators passed a similar bill requiring medical professionals to conduct an ultrasound, make a recording of the heartbeat and describe the fetus to their patient. A Texas court overturned that law on First Amendment grounds, but the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit reinstated it.

    The 5th Circuit’s reasoning was insidious: “The point of informed consent laws is to allow the patient to evaluate her condition and render her best decision under difficult circumstances. Denying her up-to-date medical information is more of an abuse to her ability to decide than providing the information.”

    If you accept that logic, then the same lawmakers who wrote the Texas law should require doctors to inform pregnant women that they can have an abortion. It’s the equivalent of arguing that a hospital, secular or religious, should urge women to use birth control.

    People who support these bills argue that they help woman understand what they’re about to do – as though women arrive at the decision to have an abortion lightly. This line of thought is degrading and contemptuous; the implication is that women cannot think for themselves. But then, I suppose that’s not so different from the anti-abortion, anti-birth control movements as a whole.

  20. Nal,

    Not true some cockroaches exist forever…..They just comeback when the light is the darkest….

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