First, Einstein was right. Then he was wrong. Then he was right due to a loose wire. Now he may have been wrong due to an oscillator. Many of us would just throw up our hands and say everything is relative with Einstein, but scientists at OPERA say that a second equipment problem may have led to a too conservative reading of the 730-kilometer journey of the neutrinos reported by the European Organization for Nuclear Research or CERN.
The oscillator is used to provide time stamps to synchronize the GPS systems which measure the travel time. The scientists believe that the oscillator problem may have canceled out the cable problem . . . and that the little neutrinos did move faster than the speed of light — beyond the cosmic speed barrier of 186,282 miles per second (299,792 kilometers per second). That would contradict Einstein’s theory. So I guess we have to treat Einstein like a big dummy again . . . absent another loose cable or spilled coffee cup.
I am just waiting for a finding that neutrinos are sentient with a wicked sense of humor . . . and hovering around 299,791 kilometers per second just to mess with us.
Source: CBC
The above peer reviewed study does not apply to the U.S. as scientist believe Anericans are growing taller. This inspite of the hottest temperatures on record. The report, Mean Body Weight, Height, and Body Mass Index (BMI) 1960-2002: United States, shows that the average height of a man aged 20-74 years increased from just over 5’8″ in 1960 to 5’9½” in 2002, while the average height of a woman the same age increased from slightly over 5’3″ 1960 to 5’4″ in 2002.
M http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/healthcare/a/tallbutfat.htm
Scientist now believe global warming makes animals smaller. Could global warming turn us all into hobbits? A study of prehistoric horses has found that rising temperatures tend to make mammals shrink. Does that apply to humans too? http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0224/Could-global-warming-turn-us-all-into-hobbits
No, it was the eager scientists that JT mentioned, who rushing to achieve eternal scientific fame, having earlier sloppily left the checking of their lab apparati to junior members, now have made fools of not only themselves but brought disrepute onto scientists, which is utilized effectively by promoters of many agendas.
Long sentence, but not two pages, which some say is the record holder.
Now in MY days (note attempt to add aural emphasis), good ol’ NASA did not do anything without a written procedure for EVERY step or process.
Checked and counterchecked. Example: When the test motor for the LEM arrived it could not be taken off the truck because an handling procedure had not been written or validated. IMAGINE then, having been so impressed by the holiness and absolute importance of approved written procedures, then I was given the task of writing one completely outside my area of academic competence, it called for a plumber, not an electrician.
I guess that dependence and that belief in the infallibility of checking led to the Challenger tragedy. The first rule of all: When hearing or seeing signals, look for the obvious. Hear hooves? Look for horses, not zebras.
Well, you could count on the alleged believing that EVERYTHING has a purpose, teleology, would enrage a TRUE scientist, who, dare I say, reveres it.
And an old man, who planted the teleological parody to arouse eventual lurking “faithists”, and wishing also to amuse the rest of the non-faithist onlookers at the show in Turley’s coliseum, reacted to being called a purveyor of crazy ideas. He replied revealing the parody, but the battle was already joined.
And Tony, instead of replying with his age, when the slur on his age and maturity, instead gave his full list of bonafides, including his grandchildren.
And so it goes, that eternal fight to understand. Even ourselves are unreachable, sometimes 75 years will suffice to reach a very little.
And so like all battles, negotiations have been held, armistice declared, and peace reigns. Feathers are no longer ruffled, but mumblings bestow, as yet.
We were talking about bombing Iran, were we? A more peaceful venture perhaps.
I learned something useful from this thread:
The earth was measured by using the distance from the equator where the sun reached the bottom of a deep well at summer solstice, to where he was in Egypt where the shadow of a stick of a known height could be measure.d
The geometry is pretty straight forward – Similar triangles.
As for the rest, Woostys right: what a bunch of crankies today…
@Dredd: Science is not similar to law or religion or philosophy, in any sense. Trust is not a necessity of science, the whole point of science is that you can (at least in principle) reproduce experiments for yourself and see for yourself. You do not have to TRUST Rutherford; you can get $10 worth of gold film and do the experiment for yourself, you can calculate the maximal radius of the gold atom nucleus. You can check his math, check his assumptions, check everything. I do not believe Rutherford because I trust him, I believe him because I trust myself.
In law, I disagree with the presumptions upon which it is based, they are simply wrong and counter-factual, but I cannot do anything about that.
The same thing goes for religion vis a vis false premises; and it is based on faith, which is belief without evidence or proof.
Science is unique in that you can dig as deep as you want into reasons, everything has reasons down to the axioms that are self-evident. If you don’t find them self-evident, you can try and build a workable system without them, and might even have success (as some mathematician have). That isn’t true of law or religion.
what a bunch of crankies today…
@ID: And you are pulling rank again, you’ve been here longer that I
Wow, you are the first to use that argument.
That was not to pull rank, that was to point out that your idiotic demand that I should become accustomed to the particular culture of this blog or leave was … idiotic. Because you falsely assumed I was a newcomer, I was providing a correction, not a bona fide.
Likewise, the details of my history are not intended to impress, they are intended to point out that you falsely assumed I was young, and then condescendingly patted me on the head and promised I would grow up. The details were a correction, I am an all grown up grandpa with plenty of life experience, not some green postdoc.
Rules. I vomit at the idea Parliamentarians.
You don’t have to follow my rules. I will follow my rules, and respond accordingly.
Tony C,
Your trust is another person’s belief, but seeing as how science, law, and religion are so similar in the sense of epistemology, what do you think is more permanent than philosophy (which means “the love of wisdom”)?
Woosty,
You are so right, It would have sufficed to write: Do you really think so. Read again.
Finé.
Gene H,
Your opinion is your take and you have my admiration anyway if that means anything. But I was fighting a monster from my past which had not expected to meet here.
As for off base criticisms, let’s skip that. I written a last criticism and suggested he reply and we call it quits.
I ain’t sitting on any high horse, have only pretended to as I’ve previously related in my true confessions
Having left my professorship days behind me you can have my science flag.
It’s a bit ragged, dirty and torn but anyway recognizable.
you can only blame yourselves 🙂
Tony,
You ´questioned yourself as to your being fooled and going too literally, or something like that, etc. Well that’s me too. If that helps.
And i can get pissed just as you can, don’t want to compare merits, i stand by that as a way of pulling rank. it is ideas and their delivery which count….
.
As to my views on teleology, i said it was not as I wrote. i’ll say it again, it was meant as a honeytrap for those that do, and primarily as a parody of them. i mean we have so many religiios types visiting and teleology is a common argument among them.
And you are pulling rank again, you’ve been here longer that I
Wow, you are the first to use that argument. How sad that that gives you standing and comfort and security. Here take my warm blanket instead if it helps.
Next you’ll be posting a list of your scientific papers, your consulting projects, etc. your CV—-what else?
I stand here naked with my views, which I can sometiimes back up, most folks know that I have a wide collection of facts but no depth. Warning thin ice here.
.
Yoú are still an odd person out IMHO here, however much seniority you claim. I’ve fought seniority and such overbearing power use for all my life.
In the miliary it was clear it was necessary.
As for college, my friend, I worked a whole year fulltime to start paying for mine, lived at home, and worked every summer except for ROTC camp once, and during the school year. So what, I never have and never will mention it again as a merit.
I explained to you my judgement call on your age, but again you come back with pulling prestige out of your ass to put me down with your whole history.
Why not your whole geneaology while you’re at it. Would that give your ideas or way of presenting yourself more merit. Not in my eyes, Tony.
It was a deliberate use of the same dirty tricks you used on me when I suggested you were young and over sensitive as to your merits.
But starting out, as you did, by linking to all the funny people and ideas here is not a way to win friends or influence people.
Now play nice. Come back once and let’s give it up. Thanks for the dustup.
As for your life you do it your way, and I’ll do mine my way.
I agreed with you about the difficulties of doing without the usual ways of relaying irony, sarcasm, etc. and said I’d often done the same, ie been fooled into believing they were serious. Can you read?
And my way of arguing is not something to discuss as though this was a debate club. How juvenile. Rules. I vomit at the idea Parliamentarians. Thay have them in Congress and what does that help?
@Gene: I’d like a science flag if it is warm. I hope it is not blasphemous to wrap my feet in it while I watch the SyFy channel.
Well in id707’s defense, Tony, he’s not the first person to find your thinking in some areas a bit rigid.
However, that being said, I found the rest of his criticisms were off base. The written word, despite its great power as a medium of communication is fallible in that it has no equivalent of facial expression, body language and (to a lesser degree) tone of voice.
You two play nice.
And where do I get a science flag?
@Idealist: You’ll adjust and enjoy, or you’ll leave
Unless you have changed your name, I believe I have been commenting on this site longer than you. Based on your characterization of other posters, you haven’t been here long.
As for my military service: I was a grunt, I joined out of high school to get the GI Bill. As soon as I could, I left and used it, with side jobs, to attend college.
Ad hominem attacks of the type: “suspect lack of intelligence” amounts to admission of defeat or lack of a logical defence
You haven’t made any logical argument, just false assertions, so there is nothing for me to be defeated by, and no need for a logical defense.
That statement was a statement of fact about my state of mind, reinforced by your subsequent posts. You jump to conclusions you cannot support; that suggests to me a lack of intelligence. You conclude I am “young,” you conclude I have only recently begun posting here, you conclude I am a rigid thinker, you falsely claim that using a “disguise” is common here: It isn’t, and in several past threads, commenters posting here for years have vilified it as a deceptive practice.
As for wrapping myself in the science flag: I didn’t even know we had one. I hope we don’t, I am generally opposed to reverence for symbolic objects. I was just detailing for you why you were wrong in your assessment of me as a rigid thinker. As for my “accusation” about your teleology, read your own damn teleological post, if I was accusing you it was well justified, and if you take offense at my not getting your joke, perhaps you should consider that perhaps the problem was in your delivery, which is within your power to correct.
My god, you even wrapped yourself in the science flag, as tho they were priestal vestments.
Tony,
Your use of rank, career, proreny, Horatio Alger merits, academic papers etc got me frankly pissed. _They don’t count for a hill of beans here. And you’re the first I’ve encountered who used them. Only the exceptional, and I won’t characterize how link to brag sites or degrees.
You may not have noticed but practically all use a pseudonym and often an icon to symbolize ,truly or not, as they would wish to be seen..
The only thing that matters here are your ideas and the manner of their presentation, and the humanity you share with us all in what you say or show.
No formatlities, no diplomas, no CVs, no relatives, no money, position, none are relevant here. Oh sure there are discrete signs but only a part of contextual discussion.
Nobody pulls rank here.
So keep that in mind.
Being stepped on several times, I am accustomed to challenging CEOs and senior officials as their idiocy merits. But that’s not braggiing or a warning, only explanation why I got hot about your way of defending the flag of science.
Enuf said.
Is there much difference between bi-polar and uni-polar thinking? I am beginning to study the comments and I think not.
Tony,
We’re a bit out of sync, my reply above was to the attack on my intelligence and my aspersions as to your rigidity related to your post where you accused me for believing in teleology, ie purpose behind inanimate events or phenomena.
I simply said I thought it sad you were mislead by my spoofing and using a disguise, both common here. That might account for you encountering, as you said,:
“@Idealist707: I see people with some crazy-ass beliefs in here, I was responding to what you wrote. I freely admit I often mistake written jokes or sarcasm for sincerity….”
My criticisms, although barbed and perhaps demeaning in your eyes, are again common parlance here. You’ll adjust and enjoy, or you’ll leave, or you’ll end up constantly irritated. Your choice.
I personally am interested in eating my late supper; shrimp asian style.
And suggest at least a ceasefire for the nonce.
Getting acquainted through a little childish scuffling is not dangerous.
As an old soldier, tell me your war tales instead. Mine was spent at the US Army Electronic Proving Grounds Ft Huachuca, AZ, My roombuddy from Monmouth was assigned to the 322nd Sig Bn and went to Nam.
You?