-Submitted by David Drumm (Nal), Guest Blogger
Bishop William Lori, a representative of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, testified before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee that mandating insurance companies cover contraception is like mandating kosher delis serve ham sandwiches. Lori likens the obvious health benefits of not getting pregnant to the claim that “pork is good for you.” Lori calls this the Parable of the Kosher Deli.
The beauty of Lori’s Parable is that it can be used to argue against any health insurance coverage mandate.
If an employer is a Jehovah’s Witness and insists that any employee health insurance plan not cover blood transfusions then any employee who wants that coverage could have to find another policy and pay its entire cost out-of-pocket. Any employees who do not share the employer’s worldview are penalized for those different beliefs.
While Lori makes much of the employer’s freedom of conscience, does not the employee possess that same freedom of conscience? If an employer insists on an employee health insurance plan that covers abortion in cases of rape or incest, and a Catholic employee objects to paying even part of the cost of the insurance, would Lori still support the employer’s freedom of conscience? Or would he suddenly discover that employees deserve the same freedom of conscience?
While many consider an employer’s place of business to be private property wherein the employer rules as king, that business makes use of roads, bridges, infrastructure, law enforcement, etc., paid for by the government. Without this government support, businesses wouldn’t survive. In return for the services provided, the government gets to set standards of behavior toward competitors, customers, employees, and the environment.
This is not a new issue, as evidenced by the Supreme Court case of Reynolds v. United States in 1878. For a unanimous Court, Chief Justice Waite wrote:
Laws are made for the government of actions, and while they cannot interfere with mere religious belief and opinions, they may with practices.
The freedom of religious expression requires the freedom from control of that religious expression from those holding different religious beliefs. If one demands freedom of religious expression for oneself, then one must give up control over the religious expression of those holding different religious beliefs. If one demands freedom of conscience for oneself, then one must give up control over the conscientious beliefs of those holding different conscientious beliefs. One cannot reasonably complain about the denial of freedom of conscience when one’s denying that freedom to others.
H/T: Jonathan D. Sarna, Sarah Posner, Adam Lee, Kashif J. Powell (pdf).
“Any other voluntary activities that I might choose to engage in that should also be covered? I don’t want just the things I enjoy to be covered. I want my fellow employees to get their fair share.”
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We live in a society that can not exist without workers. That means that work, to maintain society, is not voluntary.
Is Society voluntary?
the Law?
only religion is the voluntary aspect of our society…..and when you are done realizing the collective corner we have painted ourselves into by discrediting and ignoring the entire womans perspective, then maybe we can have an ‘intelligent’ conversation.
In my little corner of the world, that IS mandatory. [and not without it’s joys….]
Bdaman,
I don’t have to disprove Bill O’Reilly because he is an authority on nothing. Secondly, have you actually priced the cost of contraception when it is not covered on your insurance plan? Obviously Bill O’Reilly hasn’t. Finally, why should women have to resort to paying for it themselves when men don’t have to pay for their Viagara? Isn’t that a separate but equal kind of argument. By the way, thanks for the suggestion on the IP address, but I don’t know what I could do even if I had it.
Bdaman 1, March 10, 2012 at 11:52 am
Raff you got the keys go get the IP address to who did it. Then you’ll see who it is.
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Does anyone know if it’s possible to tamper with the IP address, so that it appears to be one that it isn’t? Something that’s crossed my mind in these days of “life is stranger than fiction”…
“Go fuck yourself.” -Jeff
A classy guy. “True colors”… “shining through’…
Believe me, most of us who post here have heard “go fuck yourself” countless times. We don’t shock easily. We hear it from guys like you. We know the type only too well…
So, have a nice day, Jeff. Meanwhile, I know the drill…
Raff you got the keys go get the IP address to who did it. Then you’ll see who it is.
Raff don’t shoot the messenger try and disprove the message that It was a setup.
rafflaw 1, March 10, 2012 at 11:43 am
Bdaman,
I cannot believe that you quoted Bill O’Reilly on the issue of health care for women
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rafflaw,
Always an authoritative source in my book… 😉 (I missed it, as I just “scroll on by” now…, so “good catch” to use your apt phrase.)
…which brings to mind a song, if one twists the phrase:
“…to force Catholic non-profit organizations to provide insurance coverage for birth control and the morning after pill….”
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Bdaman, I got my nursing degree at a Catholic Hospital. They did not perform abortions there. But they did take insurance monies for everything else they did at a time when contraceptives were and abortions paid for…they did not turn patients away that had insurance with companies that offerred those things. The well is well poisoned and they have been drinking from it for a long time. That argument is a lame dog.
ps;many of the Catholic girls I went to school with had had ‘abortions….many!
@Elaine M.
“Did someone unlock the front door to the misogynist asylum this morning?”
Resorting to Insults? How about this? Go fuck yourself.
Not the response you wanted?
Bdaman,
I cannot believe that you quoted Bill O’Reilly on the issue of health care for women.
“Should employers who provide health insurance be required to provide coverage in order to break that which is functioning normally?”
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wow
so , which part of what equation are you referring to? and whose idea of ‘normal’?
Because if it’s about abortion, before a woman gives up 9 months of her bodies blood, strength and resource, and she gives up what well could be the rest of her life…..I hope that you are on the same page as she is regarding your understanding of the word “NORMAL’.
Childbearing is a process involving at least 2 people to start and possibly more than that at the finish. It is also the beginning of childrearing….
so what ‘NORMAL” are you referring to?
Cause I don’t think we should talk about ‘NORMAL” until we talk about RISK.
Robin Williams said, “See, the problem is that God gives men a brain and a penis, and only enough blood to run one at a time.”
My choice for “Quote of The Day”… and it’s not even noon. (Thanks, Gene H.)
I have a problem. At 9:25am someone posted under my name, but without my picture. I did not make that post!
Raff.,
You have the ability to check what ip address that came from unless someone’s changing them…… I am just lurking right now….. So it’s not me…
AN and Elaine….
Jeff knows how to self procreate…. I am sure…..
W-^..^ said, “[T]he first ‘testicular guard. the ‘cup’, was used in Hockey in 1874….the ‘helmut’, on the other hand, was first used in 1974. So that means that it only took about 100 years for men to realize that thier brain was also important.”
Robin Williams said, “See, the problem is that God gives men a brain and a penis, and only enough blood to run one at a time.”
Historical fact, meet the truth of comedy. Truth of comedy, meet historical fact.
“If becoming pregnant poses a seriously medical threat, the activity which could result in such should be avoided.”
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darling Jeff, I’m guessing you flunked biology….
Jeff,
This one’s for you… You’re not about to change your position, so it’s “wasted breath”… Your “mind is made up”, as it’s said…
Jeff, I think you should rather ask for a ‘cup’ to be mandated…it is more analogous to the topic at hand and also….the first ‘testicular guard. the ‘cup’, was used in Hockey in 1874….the ‘helmut’, on the other hand, was first used in 1974. So that means that it only took about 100 years for men to realize that thier brain was also important.
I’d like to suggest, especially when the discussion becomes so enamored of singular pieces and/or parts, that there are many aspects of peoples’ health that are important…especially to those people who are challenged by less than stellar work environments, and that as a woman….I don’t have the time it requires to change your mind regarding my pieces and parts…..
Jeff,
“Elaine thinks the health insurance benefit provided by my employer should cover my cab ride home after a night at the pub”
I never said that. Your veracity is in question. You must be taking lessons from Rushbo.
*****
Did someone unlock the front door to the misogynist asylum this morning?
Jeff,
Where do stand with regard to tubal ligation and vasectomy?
———————-Interesting data
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintended_pregnancy
Costs and potential savings
The public cost of unintended pregnancy is estimated to be about 11 billion dollars per year in short term medical costs.[11] This includes costs of births, one year of infant medical care and costs of fetal loss.[11] Preventing unintended pregnancy would save the public over 5 billion dollars per year in short term medical costs.[11] Savings in long term costs and in other areas would be much larger.[11] By another estimate, the direct medical costs of unintended pregnancies, not including infant medical care, was $5 billion in 2002.[27]
The car insurance company should love your idea Jeff. Could ultimately save someone from being injured. Of course this would prevent them from jacking insurance rates up because of future losses leading to cheaper premiums.