The facts behind the killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Florida continue to slowly emerge. I have previously stated that I view critical facts as murky for a prosecution — even though I believe that there was sufficient evidence to arrest George Zimmerman at the scene. While we have still not seen some of the forensic evidence, a new report indicates that police may have based their initial decisions in part on the statement of a witness. We have been discussing the maddening gap in witness testimony at the critical moment of the confrontation. Now a new report suggests that there may have been a witness to the struggle and that witness reportedly told police that it was Martin who was on top of Zimmerman before the fatal shot was fired.
FOX 35 in Orlando says that it has spoken to the witness. The witness reportedly said that
“The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: ‘help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911.” Martin was wearing a hoodie that night and Zimmerman was wearing a red shirt or sweater. A friend of Zimmerman has also come forward to say that Zimmerman looked like a mess after the fight and that he recognized Zimmerman as the voice on the 911 call asking people to help him.
An obvious defense case is emerging for a classic self-defense claim. Zimmerman on the 911 tape admits to have shadowed Martin but says it was Martin who was checking him out and moving toward him a threatening fashion. Zimmerman claims that he was attacked when he was returning to his SUV. Police and counsel reported that Zimmerman had cuts on his face and head and appeared to have been in a struggle. Zimmerman was lawfully carrying a handgun was allowed to use the weapon if he was in reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death. This includes the possible use of the gun in a struggle of control of the weapon.
While the case has been treated as racially motivated, the Zimmerman family has strongly denied such a motivation — noting that he is a hispanic with many African-American friends. Frankly, Zimmerman does closely resemble an alternative profile — that of a defendant in “Castle Doctrine” or “Stand Your Ground” cases. In these controversies, we often see people who are obsessed with crime and in some cases inclined to use lethal force. That does not mean that race did not play a role here. However, it is possible that Zimmerman was motivated by his well-documented obsession with crime as opposed to race. While I understand the sensitivity to the race issue and have my own suspicions concerning the role of race, I believe it is premature to label this a racially motivated crime without more evidence of such a motive. None of this means that Zimmerman should not be charged, but rather than there remain murky elements to the case. We simply need to know more about such motivations. In terms of the state law, we also need more information (particularly forensic evidence) to better gauge the chances of a conviction in the case. I still find the fact that Zimmerman was armed and outweighed Martin to be the most significant. However, this case is still in its earliest stage in terms of development of the evidence and witnesses. Among other things, if a charge is brought, such evidence could push prosecutors toward a manslaughter claim with a lower likely sentence than second or first degree murder. Even with manslaughter, the prosecutors would have to establish the element beyond a reasonable doubt, including the claim of self-defense. Of course, the mere fact that Martin may have gotten the better of Zimmerman in dominating fight at one point does not mean that Zimmerman was not the original aggressor. It will depend on the full range of witness testimony and, again, the missing forensic evidence.
I was asked last week to sign an online petition demanding the prosecution of Zimmerman. As I have noted, I believe that there is sufficient evidence for an indictment. However, I have never support such public campaigns for indictments. I do not believe in prosecution by plebiscite. Whether there are 100 or 100,000 people demanding an indictment, a prosecutor should not be influenced by such popular outcries. We saw how distortive and corrupting such campaigns can be on prosecutors like Michael Nifong. Prosecutors must based their decisions on the weight of the evidence not the weight of public opinion. Regardless of my views about a possible indictment, I would not want a prosecutor influenced by any petition supporting those views. There is a line between the visceral and the legal and such petitions fall on the wrong side of that line.
Source: Daily Mail
I find it rather strange that his friends say georgie boy was such a mess when the footage from the police station 30 minutes after zimmerman murdered Martin don’t show any injury at all. And as far as the police report goes….did they let zimmerman change cause only that can explain how the reports from the scene say gz was bloody and had grass stains on his clothes and the footage shows NONE OF THAT. Top that off, people who have actually had banged up heads and broken noses say gz certainly didn’t behave like he had either of those issues. Care to try again. Some of us aren’t that damn gullable to believe your OR gz’s OR the heirachy of stanford PD’s BULL SHIT!
Is there not a case file where everything of interest, every decision, every paper is recorded, again to preserve a true picture and traceable and reliable data?
So far this suggests chaos, not protocol and routine. Right?
At what point in a police or prosecutor decision made to cause a protocoled and recorded handling of a “case”;
so that an unbroken, registered and permanently retained chain of evidence is captured and maintained?
What was missed by registering him body as John Doe? What investigatión phase was not taken as a result?
Was it up to the parents to call for an autopsy?
Who should (and has it been done?) have initiated a routine murder forensic investigation of the body.
PS I was trained in the Babylon Talmud school, if you’re wondering.
What ever became of one of the initial complaints from the public that Zimmerman had not been questioned at the scene, that he got to keep his gun and left the scene unhindered?
Who testified he looked bruised, bloody, with facial lacerations?
Here in this purported tape of him, he is handcuffed, obviously under arrest and showing no signs of a physical fight. Can this be from the night of the murder? Can this be someone other than Zimmerman?
If it is as has been reported here that an affidavit was filed by the chief investigator on the night of the murder, stating (apparently after an interview with Zimmerman—otherwise no basis for affadavit) that he did not support Zimmerman’s story. Then where does that support that Z. was not properly (förhörd) questioned by the police on the night of the murder?
I find conflicting facts as to arrest, questioning, and a police decision.
Any others do so?
pete,
poor Zimbo
pete,
Basement Tapes 😉
(i can’t help myself)
Blouise
whats bob dylan got to do with this?
Someone should check out any communications between Robert Zimmerman and local and/or state law enforcement agencies on the night of the shooting and in the days following. Follow every thread.
You are right OS. There is no more room for those lying to save Zimmerman or more accurately, save ALEC’s Stand Your Ground law. That law should be renamed to the License to Kill Act.
Robert Zimmerman, father of George, is a retired Orange County (VA) magistrate. He handles arrest and search warrants and minor judicial matters not trials. His mother is a retired clerk of courts.
shano,
I believe Robert Zimmerman, George’s father, was a magistrate–not a judge–in Virginia.
Son of a Virginia judge.
Mespo & Elaine, I think I see the problem. That ledge is becoming more and more narrow for the Zimmerman apologists. Pretty soon, there won’t be anything left as the rain of facts erodes it away.
This is not going to be pretty. In fact, it is uglier with each passing leak. Drip, drip, drip….
VenganceNow:
“Now we’re cutting down the greatest president we have ever known. Those were just [Bush’s] youthful indiscretions.”
*******************
Now that explains it : you’re eight-years-old. Glad you still have a chance to mature.
Trayvon Martin: The 5 Key Unanswered Questions
By Judd Legum
3/28/12
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/28/454206/trayvon-martin-5-unanswered-questions/
It’s been more than a month since Trayvon Martin was shot dead by George Zimmerman. (Get a full rundown of the facts of the case here.)
Tonight, ABC News release video footage of Zimmerman arriving at the police station. The video depicts a cleanly-shaven man who “shows no blood or bruises” on his body.
While media coverage of the case has been intense, there are several key questions that have yet to be answered about the case. Here are five of the most important:
1. What was the purported “conflict” that required the initial prosecutor to step down? On March 22 — after several weeks on the job — state attorney Norm Wolfinger stepped down from his role as prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin case. Wolfinger relinquished his post after meeting with Florida Gov. Rick Scott and Attorney General Pam Bondi. He said it was necessary for him to step aside to preserve “the integrity of this investigation,” adding he wanted to avoid “the appearance of a conflict of interest.” He did not explain why his continued involvement would damage the integrity of the case or explain the potential conflict he was seeking to avoid. Did anyone at the prosecutor’s office know Zimmerman or his family? [Orlando Sentinel]
2. Why did the prosecutor ignore the recommendations of the lead homicide investigator? ABC News reported that Chris Serino, the lead homicide investigator on the Trayvon Martin case, recommended that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter on the night of the shooting. Serino filed an affidavit that night stating “he was unconvinced Zimmerman’s version of events.” As the lead homicide investigator, Serino was: 1. In the best position to evaluate Zimmerman’s credibility, and 2. Intimately familiar with Florida law. Why was he ignored? [ABC News]
3. Why did then-Police Chief Bill Lee make public statements directly contradicting the official recommendations of the police department? On the day the Sanford Police concluded their investigation and handed over the case to the prosecutor, then-Police Chief Bill Lee stated publicly that there was no “probable cause” to arrest or charge Zimmerman. (Lee has subsequently “temporarily” stepped down from his post.) But the Miami Herald reports that on the same day the Sanford Police formally requested that the prosecutor charge Zimmerman, something known as a “capias” request. [ThinkProgress]
4. Who leaked Trayvon Martin’s school records? As public outrage increased, Zimmerman’s sympathizers launched a smear campaign against Trayvon Martin. This included details of several occasions where Martin was suspended for minor infractions (defacing a locker, possessing an empty “marijuana baggie.”) None of the information seemed to have any particular relevance to the night Trayvon Martin was shot to death. Was this a ham-handed attempt by the police or the prosecutor to defend their lack of action against Zimmerman? The Sanford City Manager announced he would launch an independent investigation into the source of the leak. [Miami Herald; NBC12]
5. Why was Trayvon Martin’s body tagged as a John Doe? The Washington Post’s Jonathan Capehart notes a police report “that was completed at 3:07 a.m. on Feb. 27 lists Trayvon’s full name, city of birth, address and phone number.” But yet, Trayvon’s body was reportedly “tagged as a John Doe” and his father wasn’t informed of his death until after he filed a missing person report later on the 27th. Why weren’t Trayvon Martin’s parents contacted immediately after the police confirmed his identity? [Washington Post]
Special prosecutor Angela Corey has promised to release additional information about the case once she makes a decision about whether to charge Zimmerman, something that could happen at any time.
http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-video-shows-no-blood-bruises-george-194108003–abc-news-topstories.html
Elaine M:
As George Burns might say about that police tape, “Say goodnight, George.”
Sure, take up for the aggressor. I am sure folks know how to photo crop pictures and artistically cover any portion that they do not deem desirable. Been done before, could be happening here. What do you want from a collared boy?
SwM, note the police are not wearing rubber or latex gloves. They are following protocol by having him handcuffed, so if there was visible blood, they would be following hazmat protection as well. That is protocol for first responders everywhere. What does it all mean. There was no visible blood. You do not break your nose or have lacerations on your head without bleeding. Does not happen. I have looked at that video several times on full screen mode and cannot see any blood. So, the whole scenario about Zimmerman being injured was a fabrication. A fairy tale.