The facts behind the killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Florida continue to slowly emerge. I have previously stated that I view critical facts as murky for a prosecution — even though I believe that there was sufficient evidence to arrest George Zimmerman at the scene. While we have still not seen some of the forensic evidence, a new report indicates that police may have based their initial decisions in part on the statement of a witness. We have been discussing the maddening gap in witness testimony at the critical moment of the confrontation. Now a new report suggests that there may have been a witness to the struggle and that witness reportedly told police that it was Martin who was on top of Zimmerman before the fatal shot was fired.
FOX 35 in Orlando says that it has spoken to the witness. The witness reportedly said that
“The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: ‘help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911.” Martin was wearing a hoodie that night and Zimmerman was wearing a red shirt or sweater. A friend of Zimmerman has also come forward to say that Zimmerman looked like a mess after the fight and that he recognized Zimmerman as the voice on the 911 call asking people to help him.
An obvious defense case is emerging for a classic self-defense claim. Zimmerman on the 911 tape admits to have shadowed Martin but says it was Martin who was checking him out and moving toward him a threatening fashion. Zimmerman claims that he was attacked when he was returning to his SUV. Police and counsel reported that Zimmerman had cuts on his face and head and appeared to have been in a struggle. Zimmerman was lawfully carrying a handgun was allowed to use the weapon if he was in reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death. This includes the possible use of the gun in a struggle of control of the weapon.
While the case has been treated as racially motivated, the Zimmerman family has strongly denied such a motivation — noting that he is a hispanic with many African-American friends. Frankly, Zimmerman does closely resemble an alternative profile — that of a defendant in “Castle Doctrine” or “Stand Your Ground” cases. In these controversies, we often see people who are obsessed with crime and in some cases inclined to use lethal force. That does not mean that race did not play a role here. However, it is possible that Zimmerman was motivated by his well-documented obsession with crime as opposed to race. While I understand the sensitivity to the race issue and have my own suspicions concerning the role of race, I believe it is premature to label this a racially motivated crime without more evidence of such a motive. None of this means that Zimmerman should not be charged, but rather than there remain murky elements to the case. We simply need to know more about such motivations. In terms of the state law, we also need more information (particularly forensic evidence) to better gauge the chances of a conviction in the case. I still find the fact that Zimmerman was armed and outweighed Martin to be the most significant. However, this case is still in its earliest stage in terms of development of the evidence and witnesses. Among other things, if a charge is brought, such evidence could push prosecutors toward a manslaughter claim with a lower likely sentence than second or first degree murder. Even with manslaughter, the prosecutors would have to establish the element beyond a reasonable doubt, including the claim of self-defense. Of course, the mere fact that Martin may have gotten the better of Zimmerman in dominating fight at one point does not mean that Zimmerman was not the original aggressor. It will depend on the full range of witness testimony and, again, the missing forensic evidence.
I was asked last week to sign an online petition demanding the prosecution of Zimmerman. As I have noted, I believe that there is sufficient evidence for an indictment. However, I have never support such public campaigns for indictments. I do not believe in prosecution by plebiscite. Whether there are 100 or 100,000 people demanding an indictment, a prosecutor should not be influenced by such popular outcries. We saw how distortive and corrupting such campaigns can be on prosecutors like Michael Nifong. Prosecutors must based their decisions on the weight of the evidence not the weight of public opinion. Regardless of my views about a possible indictment, I would not want a prosecutor influenced by any petition supporting those views. There is a line between the visceral and the legal and such petitions fall on the wrong side of that line.
Source: Daily Mail
VN
U are so incorrect. Trayvon’s pappa was there with Trayvon, Trayvon’s little brother, all visiting his pappa’s girlfriend. So your sick mind has concocted some BS lies. If Trayvon had been high it would have been leaked by the pólice a long time ago.
If wrong, show the evidence please, and stop slinging shit here.
I will not make fun of your spelling, cuz’ the Swedish King can’t either, he’s a dystlektic, and barely can read.
Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman’s story may not hold up to scrutiny
by Joy-Ann Reid
03/28/2012
http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/trayvon-martin-george-zimmermans-story-may-not-hold-up-to-scrutiny.php
Sanford Police Recommended Charging Zimmerman With Martin’s Death, But Police Chief Claimed ‘No Probable Cause’
By Judd Legum on Mar 28, 2012
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/28/453675/sanford-police-recommended-charging-zimmerman-with-martins-death/
The Miami Herald reports that the Sanford Police Department, at the conclusion of its Trayvon Martin investigation, recommended that the prosecutor file charges against the shooter George Zimmerman. Angela Corey, the special prosecutor now assigned to the case, confirmed the report:
“As far as the process I can tell you that the police went to the state attorney with a capias request, meaning: ‘We’re through with our investigation and here it is for you.’ The state attorney impaneled a grand jury, but before anything else could be done, the governor stepped in and asked us to pick it up in mid-stream.”
A capias is a request for charges to be filed.
State Attorney Norman R. Wolfinger, who was initially assigned the Trayvon Martin case, failed to act on the recommendation for charges against Zimmerman.
This new information directly contradicts the public statements that Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee (who has now “temporarily” stepped down) made on March 12, the day he turned the case over to the state attorney. He claimed that, at the time, there was not enough evidence to charge Zimmerman with a crime and arrest him:
Police Chief Bill Lee said there was not enough evidence to arrest George Zimmerman, who followed Martin in his SUV and ended up confronting the teen before shots were fired.
“In this case Mr. Zimmerman has made the statement of self-defense,” Lee said. “Until we can establish probable cause to dispute that, we don’t have the grounds to arrest him.”
These statements now do not appear to reflect the actual views of the Sanford Police, as communicated to the prosecutor. It only adds to the serious questions about the conduct of Lee and other members of the Sanford police in this case. While Lee was in charge of the Sanford Police, they did not test Zimmerman for drugs or alcohol, “corrected” a key witness, and amended the police report to bolster Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense.
Jim,
I think we need to look at the true root of the problem–the mishandling of the Trayvon Martin murder case. It may not have become a national story if all of the correct procedures were followed.
Elaine M. 1, March 28, 2012 at 1:24 pm
I agree! smearing anyone is wrong. This case got out of hand because many MSNBC convicted Zimmerman without all of the facts. I think what we really need in America is a conversation about what media should report and not report. Today’s journalists are not the journalists of 20 years ago. Sad!
Trayvon Martin shooting: Debate over photos escalates
By Dylan Stableford
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/trayvon-martin-shooting-debate-over-photos-escalates-155103512.html
Excerpt:
The initial image of Martin—released by his family and widely used by media outlets covering the racially charged case—appears to show him at a younger age.
On Wednesday, the website Business Insider came under fire for posting a pair of what it claimed were more recent photos of Martin. The site later removed the photos after it was revealed that one, taken from a neo-Nazi website, was not Martin.
A second, purportedly showing Martin with what appear to be gold teeth, was thought to be taken from Martin’s now-closed Twitter account. Numerous media outlets, including the Drudge Report and Yahoo News, used the photo in coverage of the case.
The Daily Caller published the same photo along with 152 pages of what the site claims were Martin’s tweets. (If they were, the Twitter messages prove that Martin was a pretty typical high school male, preoccupied with girls, sex and getting out of class early.)
“Our readers, and most Americans, are keenly interested in the personalities and character of the two men involved in the altercation in Sanford, Fla.,” Daily Caller executive editor David Martosko, wrote in an email to the Tampa Bay Times. “This information, which was in the public domain for months before the Twitter account was disabled, fills in some of that information. We chose that photo of Trayvon Martin because it was the picture he chose to represent himself on Twitter—and also because, unlike the years-old photos of Martin that are accompanying most media reports, it represented what he looked like nearer to the end of his life.”
Zimmerman’s supporters say that the media’s insistence on running photos of a younger Martin juxtaposed with a mug shot of the neighborhood watchman from a previous arrest is part of a predetermined narrative news outlets are presenting: a young, unarmed, innocent black kid, shot and killed by Zimmerman, a white, wannabe cop who disregarded a dispatcher’s warning not to follow Martin. (Zimmerman is Hispanic.)
Twitchy, a new website recently launched by conservative commentator Michelle Malkin, ran the same purported photo of Martin that Business Insider erroneously published alongside a photo of a smiling Zimmerman. (“Nothing says fair like putting a mug shot looking photo in ‘county orange’ next to a 5 year old picture of the victim,” a note on Twitchy read. “But hey, two can play at that game.”)
Malkin’s site later apologized: “The photo on the right is not of the Trayvon Martin who was shot by Zimmerman. We apologize to our readers and to the Martin family.”
Like it or not, the images of the victim and the shooter have become as important in the court of public opinion as the facts.
“I think it’s fundamentally an issue of accuracy,” Kenny Irby, a senior faculty member at the Poynter Institute, told the Sentinel. The grill, shown in the image of Martin purportedly taken from his Twitter account, is part of the “bad boy image” Zimmerman’s supporters want the media to circulate, because it would bolster Zimmerman’s claim that he acted in self-defense on the night of Feb. 26.
“This has been a big part of how American society sees young black men,” Irby continued. “All of these images have assumptions.”
“Here is where the media circus takes a decidedly ugly turn,” Eric Deggans wrote on the Times’ Feed blog. “Supporters of shooter George Zimmerman—including some conservative websites—are weighing in with attempts to turn Martin’s image from innocent kid to dangerous thug.”
I will correct that, TrayVon was not dating his fathers girlfriend, he was seeing her on the side. Don’t you know all people from Miami Beach are smoking weed or crack? Now your position is he was not in school because he was not a junkie, but the found weed in his back pack. I think he probably ate it like most mules do. So is it your point that he was a drug dealer now? You are not doing this kid any favors.
Now, what is wrong about loving beer, sex with your daddy’s girlfriend, and owning a piece?
The 3rd Right lives well in your heart.
Jim,
I don’t think anyone should be attempting to smear anybody else. I do believe we should be seeking out the truth in the killing of Trayvon Martin. What I find unconscionable is people smearing the reputation of a dead black teenager in an attempt to prove that Zimmerman’s actions were justified.
156 Elaine M. 1, March 28, 2012 at 10:02 am
What about all the people trying to smear Zimmerman. If smearing is wrong then it is wrong for everybody.
Let’s hear it for the good guys
PJ,
Keep speaking the truth. You need to buy the site “truthhurts.com” it is for sale.
PJ, Martin was on the phone almost entirely the whole time Zimmerman was stalking him. I think that is the reason he went to the store and was walking the neighborhood, in no hurry to get back, so he could have a private conversation with his girlfriend.
That is what most teens I know do these days, or don’t you know any young people?
“By the way, it’s now come out that Trayvon may have made hsi own 911 call.”
And I “may” have witnessed the entire incident. I’m not saying that I did, but since it is possible, we should consider that I “may” have done so.
Either Martin did call 911 or he did not. If he did, it must have been a conference call while his girlfriend was still on the line. Funny, she didn’t say anything about that.
Do you think your way through these things, or just repeat them?
Zimmerman is only free because his father was a judge. And that is really troubling to me. 3 ‘incidents’ covered up for him in the criminal justice system and now a cold blooded, cowardly murder on his record.
We have crony capitalism entrenched now, I do not want crony justice to become even more entrenched than it is already. Let there be a trial out in the open.
Some people have no sense of logic. If the kid was fleeing because he was scared,and he had a cell phone, why did he take matters into his own hands instead of calling 911? The questions you are asking can be turned around.
VenganceNow:
” You see how they operate, you know them by how they breed. …
If the junkie hadn’t been expelled from school he would not be dating his fathers girlfriend.”
*******************
1.There’s no evidence anyone involved is a junkie.
2.No one was expelled from school. Trayvon Martin was suspended for a few days under a zero tolerance policy when marijuana residue was found on his person in a plastic bag.
3.There is no evidence Trayvon was “dating” his father’s girlfriend.
4. You’re playing every derogatory racial sterotype in the book which would tend to make one believe that you are a likely racist. PJ’s not. He ‘s just deluded.
Now if I called you a redneck, beer-swilling, gun luvin’, skinhead with a sexual inadequacy problem, would that be nice? No it wouldn’t. So why not try a little kindness. It’s good for that soul of yours.
Any other facts you’d like to make up for your fairy tale Third Reich?
Let me know when you want some help spelling “vengeance.”
I wrote above: “How many other armed wingnuts are out on the prowl, waiting to be the hero in their fantasy?”
With a most unfortunate timing, Fox are about to release a movie – “Neighbourhood Watch”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerfriedman/2012/03/26/after-trayvon-martin-will-fox-have-to-pull-summer-comedy-neighborhood-watch/
“Ben Stiller, Jonah Hill, Vince Vaughn and Billy Crudup star as a quartet of volunteer watchmen who ride around in a suburban community looking for trouble.”
It’s a comedy – but now not as we know it.
Fox are hoping that the fuss will have died down by the July release date. Apparently they are suspending distribution of the trailer (see in the above link).
PJ:
Keep quibbling with the facts as we all know them. It really does not enhance your argument. You can either prove the girlfriend is clairvoyant or keep quiet until something rolls around to support your rather biased version of events. By the way, it’s now come out that Trayvon may have made hsi own 911 call. If that’s true and coupled with the revelation that the cheif investigator wanted to bring manslaughter charges against Zimmerman, you’d better get used to seeing your guy in a “zebra” with a nine digit number across the front.
PJ,
People just don’t understand the way things go. When you’re down people like to kick mud in this boys face. After all, this is Florida and they are just kicking sand. These guys are beach bully’s. Zimmerman will be vindicated. Spike lee should be ashamed of himself for putting any Zimmermans in harms way. You see how they operate, you know them by how they breed.
If the junkie hadn’t been expelled from school he would not be dating his fathers girlfriend. You expect that line of thinking from someone from the left. It is awful how they are trying Mr. Zimmerman in the press.
@Mespo,
Where’s the link to that “affidavit”? Was it taken shortly after the incident? Does it contain statements that are clearly beyond what could be determined by listening on the phone?
Maybe you could provide a link to a YouTube video that demonstrates what a push would sound like over the phone.