School officials in Florida’s Volusia County School are insisting that a school nurse was perfectly correct in refusing to give a boy his inhaler during an asthma attack because a medical release form was not signed by a parent. By the time the mother arrived at the school, her son was passed out on the floor. She says that the nurse watched as her son, Michael Rudi, 17, collapsed.
The school dean found the inhaler in its original packaging with the student’s name and directions for its use. He seized the inhaler because of the absence of a form. When the boy began to have trouble breathing the mother was called to come into school. It is not clear why, if they could reach the mother, they could not get telephonic approval. More importantly, with the boy having breathing problems, the school insisted that it was still more important to get a form signed than help the child. Rudi is quoted as saying “[a]s soon as we opened up the door, we saw my son collapsing against the wall on the floor of the nurse’s office while she was standing in the window of the locked door looking down at my son, who was in full-blown asthma attack.”
Faced with this horrific situation, the Director of Student Health Services, Cheryl Selesky, still insists it was the parents’ fault for not being sure a new signed form was on file this year. There may have been a failure in supplying such a form, but that pales in comparison to the callous and irresponsible attitude to this teenager who was in obvious medical need. The school was previously made aware of the boy’s medical condition and yet stood there with an inhaler and an unsigned form in hand . . . but concluded the form was the more pressing matter.
It is also not clear why 911 was not called. The parents have filed child endangerment charges against the nurse. They also may want to consider a civil lawsuit against the school. Since the school appears primarily motivated by legal rather than medical considerations, a torts action may serve to concentrate the mind of officials.
Source: Orlando
the statement given was thus; ” In order to provide enough oxygen, the levels had to be increased to the point that the baby lost her eyesight. The alternative was to let the baby die.”
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That is a legitimate scenario. Preemies are born sans surfactant die because they cannot incorporate O2 into thier immature lungs. Increasing O2 has detrimental side effects. This scenario did not give the babies relative biologic capabilities ie: age…so you CAN NOT SAY whether ANY remedial measures would have been effective or are approriate. Unless you also have a medical degree and training? You DEVIATE from the givens in your response.
And yet you are so sure you know enough to HURT SOMEONE with a verdict.
Woosty, I agree with you about the press, particularly “if it’ any good at doing its job” — but, alas —
If I had to measure whether doctors, lawyers or the press are any good at “doing their jobs” — well, I mean —
If you get ONE out of all of them NOT doing even a passably decent job, you’re — screwed. So what are the chances?
Woosty:
What Gene H said.
Woosty:
“You are NOT a physician and your ‘suspicions ‘ are misplaced and harmful in the above statement.”
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Seems to me the only one harmed in MINRIX’s story was the blinded child. Medical facts and standards of care are available for all the world to see. I merely stated it. You can quibble all you want about my credentials but lowering oxygen levels along with other remedial measures for ROP management are de rigueur in most hospitals for premies. That’s probably the basis for the suit, but since MINRIX just throws out some flimsy example of a tort system gone awry we’ll never know. Contrast that to the documented case of a child having difficulty breathing but medically abandoned because paperwork wasn’t signed. I’ve got plenty of facts to form a judgment based on what the SCHOOL DISTRICT admits. See my analysis of the article above.
W=^..^
“you refuse to admit that more information is needed…WHY???”
Not to answer for mespo, but rather to supplement, because legally speaking no more information is required. Mike A really hit the nail on the head with his analysis of the matter in light of Good Samaritan laws. It was an event in extremis and exactly the kind of situation those laws were designed to address. That “the paperwork” wasn’t filled out is immaterial except as an excuse for non-action but that the school’s employees acted in with what can be construed as reckless disregard for a student’s well being and thus failing one of their most basic charges as adults in a supervisory position over children is not. This is why the Rudi family is wise to pursue suit in this instance.
” I suspect the baby in your sketchy scenario could have survived quite well at 90% and the hospital’s and physician’s negligence was duly remedied as they probably settled rather than face up to what happened in court. ”
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Mespo you are over the line.
You are NOT a physician and your ‘suspicions ‘ are misplaced and harmful in the above statement.
Your arguments and POV are usually gold, but this time, in this 1 sided scenario of the Nurse and asthma inhaler you refuse to admit that more information is needed…WHY???
MINRIX:
“I remember the story of a baby in the neonatal intensive care unit. The child was born premature. As such, the lungs were not sufficiently developed. In order to provide enough oxygen, the levels had to be increased to the point that the baby lost her eyesight. The alternative was to let the baby die.
Of course the hospital and physicians were sued. It was their actions that caused the baby to be blinded. The alternative was to let the baby die.”
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If this occurred in the past 20 years they should have been sued. Retinopathy of prematurity, or ROP is a well known risk of premature babies and raising oxygen levels all but insures blindness. The standard of care is to decrease oxygen levels to about 90% of normal to guard against this preventable malady and keep the level stable. I suspect the baby in your sketchy scenario could have survived quite well at 90% and the hospital’s and physician’s negligence was duly remedied as they probably settled rather than face up to what happened in court. If the child was truly in extremis and trading sight for life was the ONLY alternative I suspect the hospital and MDs won the case. Like I said your stats and your stories are half-baked.
MINRIX:
“We live in a country that has 4 lawyers to every physician.”
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That is just utter bullshit and everything after that in your comment is true to form. Let me give you the facts from the US Department of Labor:
In 2010 there were 728,200 lawyer jobs
In 2010 there were 691,000 physician and surgeon jobs
That a ratio of 1.06 to 1.
Legal tip: Lying or unknowingly repeating lies won’t help your argument.
Woosty:
That article really is laughable spin doctoring and more revealing than the school likely intended. Let’s go through it:
“The way that it is being portrayed is not the way that it happened,” Wait said. She also said an administrator and nurse monitored Michael at all times.
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Oh, a nurse bound and determined to do nothing ’cause the paperwork wasn’t correct and an administrator with likely no medical training. Maybe they could have also hired “Eric The Clown” from Seinfeld for more professional help.
“They were never asked to call 911 if they had been asked they would have if they felt that the student was in need they would have,” Wait said.
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Surely the gasping child should have dispassionately assessed his condition, learned of the available resources, and filed a request in triplicate for an ambulance. If the good nurse and her side-kick with the education degree deigned to agree, then and then only, might the ambulance be summoned.
The school’s spokeswoman said Michael started to have some difficulty breathing but was never “on the floor suffocating.”
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Tut, tut you alarmist kid. Getting everybody all worked up just ’cause you can’t breath. Maybe if you really were sick you’d be on the floor, you faker. Let’s just wait until you turn blue before we saunter over to the pay phone down the hall and find out if any ambulances can make it over to school sometime today.
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The school district said they encourage all parents to make sure they file the proper paperwork each year.
Translation: it is your fault you dopey parents for not knowing and strictly following the guidelines we make for your benefit (oh and not to cover our own asses, mind you), and if you screw up and your kid dies, it’s your fault. If we screw up and your kid dies, it’s your fault. If nobody screws up and your kid dies, well … sh*t happens. You work for us, don’t you know. And we in the medical and education professions, sworn to place the well-being of those in our care above all else, why that’s just some words we have to say to get and keep our jobs. It’s all about money and budgets and lawsuits and keeping our jobs, and quite frankly, if you don’t like it, why you and your kids can go pound salt — if they are still alive.
I think I heard this sentiment before somewhere. Seems it was spoken in French by a well-coiffed, perfumed madame with big hair.
What a Country!
MINRIX:
“In some fields of medicine, the malpractice insurance is so high that it can make providing that area of expertise to risky to offer. That’s messed up.”
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You are making an implicit connection between the size of medical malpractice premiums and the perception that lawyers who bring frivolous malpractice claims are driving them. That’s provable bunk. Who says so? Why the medical profession itself:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/2006-releases/press05102006.html
Consider yourself propagandized by the insurance industry. That is messed up, by the way.
There are probably two sides to most stories that hit the press; the press chooses which side to portray, of course, in spite of “journalism class” cliches to the contrary. But there are some stories that, when both “sides” are viewed, clearly show that the sides go like this:
A hurt B
B didn’t like it
A thought it was fine and you should hear his side of WHY
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Malisha, not if the press is any good at doing their job…..
http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/search/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=EJ696540&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ696540
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Volusia County Health Services Coordinator Cheryl Selesky said that, according to a Florida state statute, a child can carry their metered dose inhalers while at school with written permission and physician authorization, which Rudi did not have.
“If the student was in severe distress, 911 would have been called for emergency medical assistance,” Selesky said.
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The Rudi’s attorney said the family wants the school nurse suspended and they plan to file a suit against the district, the nurse and even the sheriff’s office for failing to fully investigate.
“If this isn’t a clear case of child abuse I don’t know what would be,” said the attorney.
But school district spokeswoman Nancy Wait said state law requires administrators to confiscate undocumented prescription medication.
“The way that it is being portrayed is not the way that it happened,” Wait said. She also said an administrator and nurse monitored Michael at all times.
“They were never asked to call 911 if they had been asked they would have if they felt that the student was in need they would have,” Wait said.
The school’s spokeswoman said Michael started to have some difficulty breathing but was never “on the floor suffocating.”
The school district said they encourage all parents to make sure they file the proper paperwork each year.
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Clearly this Nurse has been abused by these people who hold her GUILTY before proven innocent. Apparently the not so new hotheaded american way….
MINRIX I agree with you. I was referring NOT to the idea that we discount the fact that there can be another side to the story, because most of the time there IS. What I was trying to convey is that (not in the case of your doctors saving the premie or the school nurse holding off wrecking her career in case it wasn’t necessary) there are some situations in which the “other side” — already known — is simply an “other side” that is unsustainable and should not be credited. To continue to say there is another side of the story when a bully has hurt someone, for instance, gives the bully an immense amount of power to show how right he or she is to not only do harm but to blame the victim FOR the harm.
There are probably two sides to most stories that hit the press; the press chooses which side to portray, of course, in spite of “journalism class” cliches to the contrary. But there are some stories that, when both “sides” are viewed, clearly show that the sides go like this:
A hurt B
B didn’t like it
A thought it was fine and you should hear his side of WHY
Malisha,
We live in a country that has 4 lawyers to every physician. When hiring a physician hospitals have to decide if it is best to hire the physician as an employee or to bring them on as a subcontractor. In some fields of medicine, the malpractice insurance is so high that it can make providing that area of expertise to risky to offer. That’s messed up.
I remember the story of a baby in the neonatal intensive care unit. The child was born premature. As such, the lungs were not sufficiently developed. In order to provide enough oxygen, the levels had to be increased to the point that the baby lost her eyesight. The alternative was to let the baby die.
Of course the hospital and physicians were sued. It was their actions that caused the baby to be blinded. The alternative was to let the baby die.
If you only knew one side, you would only know that the baby was blind because of the care provided by the hospital and their physicians.
It is foolish to discount the other side of the story until you know what it is.
The Nurse (an LPN) says that the child was not having an attack that warranted calling 911.
http://video.insider.foxnews.com/v/1656423437001/
mespo,
Sorry, I lost track of the thread.
You wrote: “That is why I am so surprised that you, like Elaine M.and BLouise, choose to focus on the parents rather than the needs of the child.”
I can see how that would surprise you … if it were true.
I realize what the parents have said the needs of their child were in that situation and I realize that the situation was a direct result of the parents failure to meet their child’s needs. But important information is missing.
My mother was a nurse as were the majority of her friends. Three of my nieces are nurses. I know nurses and I know procedures they are required to follow by law.
Before condemning the nurse, I will wait for that additional information.
A friend of mine who was a physician went to a medical conference in Italy. Doctors in other countries discussed with her their impression that “In the States you cannot practice medicine; you must practice ‘legal-limit-medicine” and judge all your actions by what the next lawsuit is going to say about what you did.”
And she was a very good doctor. It’s so frustrating — the legalistic demands of an unconnected society make everything so fraudulent!
mespo,
I can see that you only recognize as relevant that which you want to consider. Someday that will bite you in the butt.
The nurse was legally prohibited from providing the inhaler. If she did give the kid his inhaler anyway, she risked losing her job (and her license).
Would she have provided the inhaler if the symptoms were worse? Would she have called 911 if the symptoms were worse? We don’t know the answer to either of those questions. We weren’t there.
Unlike you, the nurse didn’t have the luxury of deciding what to do without also having to consider the consequences of violating the law.
Woosty:
“Mespo I am guessing you are a parent….and identifying with the helplessness parents feel when they send their kids to school.”
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I’m the son of a public school administrator and teacher who believes home schooling and private schools are detrimental to a democracy. I acknowledge their right to exist but I question their wisdom in a society that regards itself as a melting pot.
Woosty:
“I don’t think that’s what happened…not by what I’ve read. Your ” find one compelling reason for a nurse to sit idly by and watch a kid almost die while doing nothing.”.
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From the article: “It’s like something out of a horror film. The person just sits there and watches you die,” said Michael Rudi, 17. “She sat there, looked at me and she did nothing.”
Sounds like that’s exactly what she did.