School officials in Florida’s Volusia County School are insisting that a school nurse was perfectly correct in refusing to give a boy his inhaler during an asthma attack because a medical release form was not signed by a parent. By the time the mother arrived at the school, her son was passed out on the floor. She says that the nurse watched as her son, Michael Rudi, 17, collapsed.
The school dean found the inhaler in its original packaging with the student’s name and directions for its use. He seized the inhaler because of the absence of a form. When the boy began to have trouble breathing the mother was called to come into school. It is not clear why, if they could reach the mother, they could not get telephonic approval. More importantly, with the boy having breathing problems, the school insisted that it was still more important to get a form signed than help the child. Rudi is quoted as saying “[a]s soon as we opened up the door, we saw my son collapsing against the wall on the floor of the nurse’s office while she was standing in the window of the locked door looking down at my son, who was in full-blown asthma attack.”
Faced with this horrific situation, the Director of Student Health Services, Cheryl Selesky, still insists it was the parents’ fault for not being sure a new signed form was on file this year. There may have been a failure in supplying such a form, but that pales in comparison to the callous and irresponsible attitude to this teenager who was in obvious medical need. The school was previously made aware of the boy’s medical condition and yet stood there with an inhaler and an unsigned form in hand . . . but concluded the form was the more pressing matter.
It is also not clear why 911 was not called. The parents have filed child endangerment charges against the nurse. They also may want to consider a civil lawsuit against the school. Since the school appears primarily motivated by legal rather than medical considerations, a torts action may serve to concentrate the mind of officials.
Source: Orlando
Woosty,
I don’t wish to pick a fight with you, so take this as at least partly humorous:
“The legal industry, is a ‘service’ industry and demands the same ethics as any other service industry.”
You mean like the banks?
Note:
Oh oh! A disturbance in the force is warning me NOT to click on ‘Post Comment’
I had mistyped ‘humorous’ as ‘hunourous’
So auto-correct suggested ‘sulphurous’. Hmmmmmm!
This must be a sign from the Universe that I should perhaps consider having a nice cup of herbal tea and retire to my chaise longue.
Ah what the hell…. clicking now….
Woosty,
You asked…..Yes, it is here in Sweden I was writing about. I state only the facts as I know them. But should make it clearer, when I change bases in my references.
This place, while interesting, resembles more and more a place where too many (not all) vent their frustrations and illusions, delusions and more…..for which I have no words.
But being the only crap game in town…….
Sling what is the difference between a situation being testified to in theoretical truth vs practical truth? Because if there is a difference then the ‘justice’ system is nothing more than theatre with big weapons, big hankerins, and a bigger ego. Our ‘justice’ system, practically speaking, is as Oro Lee says the part charged with administering due process and meted out by courts. That is a societal role not a private one. If actual truth (based in facts and law) vs ‘practical’ truth (based in something else) is a distinction then the ‘justice’ system is potentially and dangerously serving a small part of society against the whole and has abdicated its role and usefulness to society. The legal industry, is a ‘service’ industry and demands the same ethics as any other service industry.
Woosty is the only professional medical person here today.
Her partial list of indications of respiratory crisis are enough to prove that.
And Woosty is the one that says there is a reality, let us examine that before judgement. No, we rave based on our experiences, beliefs, theories, principles. whatever will do for us.
The sad fact is the corps of lawyers, who work in the reality of the injustice we have, defending a rush to judgement and a willingness to cast the nurse under the bus, sans facts or legal evidence being examined professionally and in admissible form.
Americans seem to believe that a perfect world can be regulated from. And departures should be punished without recourse to reality.
Those who cite the laws defending the nurse are assuming that the nurse’s training and her employer had informed her. Prove that if you will.
What are the stats? Who usually bites the dust, not the suers who point at one thing or another to fault the underdog.
You DON’T KNOW THE FACTS, ANY OF YOU.
So Woosty wins by default.
And here’s a truth to take with you, it is proven many times every day:
IT IS ALWAYS THE ONE IN THE FRONT LINE WHO GETS HURT.
Not the principals, the superintedant of schools, or the Generals in the Pentagon, or the Presidents in office.
Or even – which side is doing it most.
Woosty,
I think Oro is talking about practical matters, whereas you are talking about theoretical matters.
Any time I sit in a courtroom, I expect to hear perjury as a matter of course.
The difficulty is in deciding which side is committing perjury.
“Justice, or substantial justice as required by due process and meted out by courts, is not concerned with truth or fairness per se.” Oro Lee
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I don’t think I can understand this statement given that the law is footed in ethics and testimony is given ‘under oath’ w/threat of charge of perjury if that is not adhered to.
Oro Lee,
Your post struck a chord, and I cross posted it in one of the Zimmerman/Martin threads,
http://jonathanturley.org/2012/05/18/new-evidence-in-zimmerman-case-undermines-prosecutions-case-on-second-degree-murder-charge
… where a sub/intertwined thread has touched on more general questions of justice as related to the death penalty.
I realise that doing so might exacerbate that derailment, but your post is so god that it’s worth the price IMO.
“Isn’t justice dependant on facts?”
No, not really. It is dependant upon those “facts” found by the fact-finder based on “admissible evidence” pursuant to a set of specific instructions given to the fact finder.
Justice, or substantial justice as required by due process and meted out by courts, is not concerned with truth or fairness per se. It is primarily concerned with giving aggrieved parties a dispute resolution process sufficient to prevent resort to the old hue and cry,
I still vividly recall the law professor’s retort to a studen’st protestations that a particular result was not fair: “You want fair? Go cry to your Mommy.”
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/05/25/school-nurse-denies-student-asthma-inhaler-because-she-cant-find-parental-consent-form/#more-88802
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the vid on the Fox site is interesting….for all the talk about a ‘full blown attack’ the student and his Mom never mention going to the doctor. So I guess the life threatening crises had passed by the time Mom arrived ????
I would need to know if the nurse did what nurses are trained to do ie;EXAMINE her patient…ie; check his nail beds, flaring nostrils, accessory muscle use, could he speak, wheezing audible and auscultated throughout lung fields, cough present, pulse and BP, O2 sat via pulse Oximetry, state of consciousness…which many of the differring articles relay as being ‘passed out’ or ‘almost passingout’ or ‘slumped against wall’ but which is NOT relayed by the student in this vid. who says he told the principle he had caught his breath and could make it to the Nurses office. What I see is a mother who was terrified (and maybe feeling a little guilty for not keeping up with the required paperwork…) …and a student who probably became very frightened indeed when all Hell broke loose around him. When Mommy arrived was she screaming at everyone, did she DRIVE him to the hospital (he was after all about to be dead….) was he in need of steroids and nebulizers to stabilize his breathing and normalize his gas exchange????
Was there an important final exam that day that coud prevent his graduation????
yes, more facts would be helpfull…
My son has asthma, countless times have we went to the E.R.in fear for his life. Watching, hearing an attack is horrible to watch under any circumstances. Not just for the parent, but for an average bystander also. How any human being can watch a full blown asthma attack and do nothing is beyond my comprehension. As a trained professional she knew what the consequences could have been and yet chose to do nothing. My child, 11 yrs., carries his inhaler with him at all times. I am curious as to why this child was not allowed to carry his as well. Let me guess, another of the school’s policy….
My son has asthma, countless times have we went to the E.R.in fear for his life. Watching, hearing an attack is horrible to watch under any circumstances. Not just for the parent, but for an average bystander also. How any human being can watch a full blown asthma attack and do
nothing is beyond my comprehension. As a trained professional she knew what the consequences could have been and yet chose to do nothing. My child, 11 yrs., carries his inhaler with him at all times. I am curious as to why this child was not allowed to carry his as well. Let me guess, another of the school’s policy….The nurse is in need of treatment. Unfortunately, the kind she needs you can only be born with.
blouise, love the clip. notice too that the guy fired the first shot was the one left standing. ain’t it the truth.
Ahh mespo, (warning, appears to be OT … but isn’t)
“Sometimes you need a mob filled with justifiable righteous indignation.”
You did that on purpose and I tried, I really tried to just let it go.
I went about my daily routine preparing for the big weekend (I get to ride in the parade in the back of a decorated pick-up truck as Queen of the Treehuggers and distribute small trees for planting to the gathered rabble along the parade route. I know, I know … you’re envious as all hell!)
But, alas-alack, I could not just let it go.
The following clip is from one of my favorite cult-classics, Rustler’s Rhapsody. It’s a marvelously entertaining comedy loaded with great symbolism. In this particular clip we see the mob on the left (all with pistols) who represent the big business interests of the cattle barons and railroad tycoons … the Madsonians, if you will, facing off against the mob on the right (all with rifles) who represent the interests of farmers and sheepherders or Jeffersonians.
Each mob is chocked full of “justifiable righteous indignation” and the outcome is predictable. Mobs never listen to reason, especially those mobs who envision themselves as filled with justifiable righteous indignation. Never.
http://www.wesh.com/news/31109650/detail.html
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Mespo there are lots of facts that could come to light. The family is livid….I have read multiple articles and they all seem to have a different twist on the facts. Isn’t justice dependant on facts?
SlingTrebuchet, great clip, I dont ascribe to its premis but I really liked “Sliders”. Thanks.
Mespo: “One wonders what facts could come to light to justify watching another person’s child potentially die even as you hold the knowledge and means to save him.”
*****
Mespo, you ask the salient question. Since there was a policy to call 911 and she apparently didn’t do that I can’t supply a narrowly focused answer. In general though I would say that the same impulse (facts) that restrained this nurse is the same impulse that kept the non-torturing guards at Abu Ghraib from sawing “hey! knock that s*** off or I’m reporting you” and the the Wall Street wonks that knew the economy was being looted from contacting reporters and writing op-eds.
You’re looking (and I’m right there with you) for some personal leadership and integrity- give him the inhaler and the fallout be damned- but that is not the norm. The norm is to be a follower, to be cowed by fear of un-named consequences, to seek the safety of moral apathy. If you acquiesce you can get by or get rich or remain anonymous. In a culture where whistle-bowers are hounded and sanctioned and demonized from the highest levels of government on down (instead of being awarded medals and having high-schools named after them) what are we taught is the appropriate response?
But if you want to fire up a lantern and wander the streets I’ll join you, I’ll even bring a bottle of something to keep us warm on our, I fear, nearly futile journey.
Aside: you know how you instill a fear of the law? You make it so complex that no one understands it beyond knowing that if ‘they’ want you for some reason, ‘they’ve’ got you. Like tax law historically and now criminal law. (Resisting without contact, srsly?) Maybe she had so many regulations and policy statements to follow she just couldn’t keep them all straight or remember them all and was paralyzed by fear. On some level, that could be considered a success.
Mespo said:
“When an event in the extremis like this occurs, anyone acting in good faith and in furtherance of the goal is protected by all manner of laws including most states’ good Samaritan law.”
Unfortunately – at least in California – most medical professionals that I know, operate under the advice from hospital council, that a medical professional is not well-protected by the Good Samaritan Act.
The Act itself – as you probably know – originated to encourage non-professional bystanders to do the right thing. The general thinking among nurses, docs & medics in my neck of the woods, is that the more you know, the less you can count on being protected.
Not that this nurse didn’t have several other options.
I personally was once suspended as a Medic in San Diego, for inserting a surgical airway into a drowning, 1-year old girl.
Why was I suspended?
I didn’t have my airway certificate in my wallet at the time.
And some folks wonder why I yammer so.
SlingTrebuchet:
Your video stirred my own steadily escalating sense of foreboding.
I suspect that by the time we recognize how deeply we’ve dug ourselves into societal “you-just-can’t-be-too-careful” doo-doo, there will be no viable way out.
Woosty:
“……really? That’ll certainly make it easy for people to get to the bottom of the issue without spreading the fear, creating a mob, inspiring violence.”
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One wonders what facts could come to light to justify watching another person’s child potentially die even as you hold the knowledge and means to save him. Compassion in the health care professions seems a thing of the past. Maybe they can invent a compassion transplant. Heal thyself indeed.
Sometimes you need a mob filled with justifiable righteous indignation.
blouise, thank you!