Submitted by: Mike Spindell, guest blogger
Some comments in the ongoing debate regarding the candidacy of Elizabeth Warren got me to thinking about our political system and people’s reactions to it. Warren is criticized by the Right for obvious reasons, given her strong stances on managing the economy and controlling the excesses of the Corporate Culture. In a sense she offends their sense of political purity, but then that is but a given because she is a Democrat. We have seen though on the Right that such conservative stalwarts as Richard Lugar have gone down to primary defeat because he failed the Tea Parties test of what a “true” conservative should be. Richard Lugar failed the “purity” test even though his conservative history is impeccable. In my conception political purity conforms to “party line” thinking, punishing those that fail to adhere in all respects to the standards of a given faction’s concept of standards their candidates must adhere to in order to retain enthusiastic support. I use “faction”, rather than “party”, because our two party political system actually represents an amalgam of various factions imperfectly coalescing under the rubric of a “Political Party”.
From a Left, or even Centrist perspective, there has been both amusement and trepidation about how the “Tea Party” faction has exerted control over the Republican Party. Then too, there is the same reaction to the power exerted by Fundamentalist Christians, a group that at some points overlaps with the “Tea Party”. A human trait is to see the foibles of groups we define as “other”, while being oblivious to the idiosyncrasies of the groups we are aligned with. Liberals, Progressives, Radicals and even Leftist Centrists like to believe that they are immune from the turmoil that they see in their Right Wing opposites, yet the “Left” and even the “Center” also routinely define people in terms of litmus tests of political purity. This was highlighted by certain comments on the Warren thread where people who were seemingly in tune with her domestic policy views, disliked her positions on the Middle East and appeared to hold them against her. This has definitely been true with many progressives and/or civil libertarians in viewing this current Administration. My purpose here is not one of castigation for anyone’s perspective; rather I’m interested in exploring the phenomenon of the belief that political figures need to meet all of our expectations in their positions, or be unworthy of our support. My own perspective is that tests of political purity are self defeating because it is impossible for any particular political figure to be in perfect agreement with all that any of us individually believe and politics becomes oppression without the ability to negotiate. The process of real negotiation requires compromise. What follows is why I believe that is true. Before my discussion though, I think a definition of perspectives would be helpful. There are some of us, including myself to a certain degree, who believe that we are living under a corporate oligarchy and as such the common pretense that our national fate is in the hands of the majority’s vote, is but pleasant mythology. I wrote about this in my guest blog Published 1, March 17, 2012: http://jonathanturley.org/2012/03/17/a-real-history-of-the-last-sixty-two-years/ .One logical conclusion that can be drawn from believing that democracy is an illusion, is that voting is a wasted effort, since whatever person we choose will either be a corporate stooge, or unelectable. I can respect those who draw that conclusion since the evidence of its truth is quite convincing. My own conclusion is not quite there yet, even though I do believe that we are under the rule of a coalition of the Military Industrial Complex and of the Corporate Elite. The redeeming feature to me is that I don’t believe in the homogeneity of the “ruling classes”. I think that they are made up of various factions and roiled by clashing egos. In my estimation voting for politicians thus has value because the vote affects the competition among our oligarchs. There is a qualitative difference for instance between Buffett/Gates and the Koch Brothers, in the sense that the former believe in more humane social policies and the latter have a draconian social view.
If one believes that Democracy is completely illusory, then why bother voting, since voting is a futile exercise? The logical conclusion of such a belief is to disdain all of American politics and politicians as being tools of the Oligarchy. From that perspective it isn’t a question of particular policy, since almost every player in normative politics is not to be trusted. So the question becomes how do the people change things when the political process is believed to be non-existent? Obviously, if it is ones view that America politics is a total sham, then a massive uprising of the people would be needed to make change. How does that uprising occur? Will its’ nature be peaceful, or violent? While I know there are “militias” out in the hills of places like Idaho, are they capable of banding together to overthrow our current government, I think not. Violent revolutions always seem to breed unforeseen and unpleasant excesses, which make their original aims moot. So the question becomes how do we effect a peaceful revolution? The answer is simple, but the process itself is immensely complex. A peaceful revolution can come about when you are able to convince an overwhelming majority of the people that the current system needs change and that they need to refuse to cooperate with it. Think of the Montgomery Bus Boycott. When the media is in the hands of corporations though, the issue is one of how does the message of change come across to reach the populace? It’s a question I’ve pondered for years.
Back in the 60’s there was the idea of “dropping out” of a corrupt system. Its problem was that it was espoused by many and practiced by few. The truth was that for those “dropping out” the system didn’t miss their participation, nor would it now. A current conservative stratagem is to make voting harder, thereby limiting turnout of voters negative to their cause. We solve nothing by not voting. We could vote, but cast our votes for nascent opposition parties. This is not a bad premise in my estimation, even though in our loaded political system, minority party effectiveness is more limited than under parliamentary government. Let us think though about a minority party legislator’s ability to be effective once elected, since I assume that the process of gaining political power through organizing a minority party opposition would be slow and could be violently opposed. Think of the police reactions to Occupy Wall Street. However, OWS does show that the elite can feel threatened by a mass movement.
When we discuss the election of someone whose political views are outside of what the “mainstream allows”, we need to take into account how much positive influence they can have on the political process, if they are unwilling to compromise their “political purity”. Let us take the real instance of Senator Bernie Sanders, a socialist, as he does his job in the Senate. I believe that Bernie is the most ethical and perceptive Senator we have had in the Senate in a long time. He is also an effective Senator in terms of being able to not only put forth a progressive point of view, but to actually influence Senate activity. In order to be effective in the Senate, Bernie has had to compromise on certain issues and thus would certainly be seen from the orthodox socialist perspective to have sold out. In contrast let us take another man whose career I’ve admired, Dennis Kucinich. Dennis has been an aggressive/effective spokesman on a national level for unpopular, yet valid causes. Within the house though he has not been able to effectuate change simply because Dennis does not do compromise well
In today’s world a political change process is mainly effectuated in four ways:
1. Violent revolution, which is highly problematic at best.
2. Massive non cooperation with the system, ala Gandhi and King, which can be very successful based
upon the right circumstances.
3. Organizing and creating an opposition political movement, a possibly fruitful, yet hard process to carry
out with success..
4. Working within the system, imperfect as it may be, to effect slow change.
All of the above can be work to effect change in a given context, but one factor is a given no matter which method is chosen. To build a mass movement in a diverse population the need to compromise is paramount. This need to compromise is called “coalition building”. The Right has been effective at this for years when you think of the coalition between religious fundamentalists, lukewarm objectivists and outright corporatists. What would Jesus, Ayn Rand and even Adam Smith think of the ways their teachings have been presumably melded? In the past the Left also coalesced around certain issues, bringing together groups that were hardly homogeneous. However, from the 60’s onward building of coalitions on the Left has broken down. “Centrists” and “Liberals” became anathema to “progressives” and “radicals”. After all that he had accomplished Martin Luther King became an “Uncle Tom” in the minds of “Black Power” advocates for his refusal to entertain the concept of violence as a tool.
The Left coalition also began to break down in the 60’s over the issue of Viet Nam. Working class union members generally supported the war that was drafting and killing their children. The leadership of the AFL-CIO, who had striven to disassociate themselves from Marxism during the McCarthy era, had become part of the country’s establishment. As George Meany, the AFL-CIO President, began to play golf with Eisenhower and major industrialists, the Union movement swung away from its Left Wing roots. The fact that the labor movement was overwhelmingly “white working class” in an era where Blacks were demanding equal status also took its toll on the coalition between Big Labor and the Democratic Party. The AFL-CIO and Teamsters supported Richard Nixon in 1968..
The labor movement’s departure from coalition with the Democratic Party was to have devastating consequences for its strength. Their workers, doing well financially aspired to a scaled down version of the American Dream. The threat that competition with Blacks for jobs and with the Left’s critique of muscular foreign policy, helped drive white workers into the Republican Party. The fact that their leadership had become cozy with Management and Republicans led the way. The power of the labor movement waned until today it is a shadow of what it once was. The Left coalition forged under FDR and informed experientially by the “Great Depression”, began to fight amongst themselves. The battles increasingly became issues of “purity of political belief”. When a person’s political value is weighed on only specific issues that are politically “black and white”, coalition becomes almost impossible. Without the ability to coalesce “Movements” face severe limitations in their ability to grow.
I believe that in the desire for reforming our governance to work for the interests of all the people, all viable methods must be used. Of the four methods I list above I believe that only the latter three are really viable. A violent revolution in this country will only hasten the totality of oppression, since violent revolutions never seem to work out the way people have planned and that the people once having risen find themselves ruled harshly by those they so hopefully followed. Refute this premise if you will, but please don’t cite the American Revolution. While it certainly had violence it was a rebellion of colonies against an overseas colonial state. By revolution I mean the rebellion of a people in a certain geographical area against their own government.
Methodologically, none of the three methods can work without bringing together people of differing standards via a coalition that accepts deviation from a “party line”. This seems obvious to me since rarely do those who wish change agree on all issues. Are there “deal breakers” that cannot brook compromise? That depends upon the individual, the perceived threat and the current circumstance. I have my own deal breakers, certainly, but I invoke them in context of my reading of the perceived threat.
What do you the reader think of the argument I’ve made? If you disagree please let me know, since I understand that on any given subject I can be wrong and I am really willing to learn. If you agree with me then what are your “deal breakers”? Perhaps if you show me yours, I’ll show you mine.
Submitted by: Mike Spindell, guest blogger
matt’s johnson:
The Marines let you drink with them because you brought the beer or you are a Corpsman so they wanted to make sure they didnt piss you off. It wasnt for your wit and ability at story telling.
Pussies usually join the Navy unless they want to be a SEAL, fly jets or join the Marines.
As far as Tony C and Gene H being smarter than you, I doubt it; they just have a couple of more degrees and Gene H is a lawyer so he sounds smart to some one who has a technical background such as accounting. He wouldnt understand what you do for shit.
Mike Spindell:
you are a social worker if I remember correctly, you have a masters degree in social work. You are not a medical doctor, you also do not have a doctoral degree in psychology. You are not a “shrink”.
I do not take medical advice from a social worker, we have been told by numerous doctors that social workers know enough to be dangerous. That is how your profession is looked upon by the medical community. And that is what I think of your “psychologizing” if it can be called that since you do have a degree in psychology, not even a BS.
But if it makes you feel better to imply that you have that type of degree, please, be my guest.
“Mike Spindell: you are a social worker if I remember correctly, you have a masters degree in social work. You are not a medical doctor, you also do not have a doctoral degree in psychology. You are not a “shrink”. I do not take medical advice from a social worker, we have been told by numerous doctors that social workers know enough to be dangerous. That is how your profession is looked upon by the medical community.”
Bron,
Once again you show your ignorance proudly. You discuss things of which you have no real understanding and present them as factual. In the political area you constantly slander people with epithets like communist, socialist and fascist, but you don’t really know what these “ism’s” are except for reading intellectual dimwits like Rand, Von Mises and Sowell.
Yes I am a Social Worker with a degree from what has been considered the most distinguished social work school in the country. I also, until I stopped practicing, held a state license to practice. Beyond that though, I spent five years in training with a State Licensed Psychotherapy Training Institute from which I have a State recognized degree as a trained Psychotherapist. I have also completed State certified programs in areas like Sex Therapy and Family Therapy. In the non-profit sector I created and successfully ran five different
programs for treating people with dual diagnoses of severe mental illness and drug addiction. I also ran a Drug Education/Treatment program for one of the largest private foster care programs. All of the programs I ran were not only state licensed, but had been given the highest evaluations under my stewardship. I also co-founded and co-directed a successful psychotherapy training program for seven years.
Now all of the patients I worked with in the programs I founded, were interviewed and selected by me for treatment, while they were in hospital psychiatric care units. Typically they had diagnoses of schizophrenia, Bi-Polar Disorder, Psychosis, etc. They were also long time drug addicts. Many of them were sociopaths, others were suicidal. I was responsible for running a program that kept them in the community and kept them out of trouble.
I’m highly qualified to use the nebulous term shrink for myself and I’m also qualified to characterize you, from your writings here at least, as exhibiting sociopathic and indeed masochistic tendencies. Now of course true diagnosis would require me seeing you face to face, so I wouldn’t testify in court as to your mental condition. However, you have written enough on this blog for me to make a preliminary assessment based on your content. It is possible that under this, out of your many past pseudonyms, you consciously are trying to portray yourself as a sociopath for some unfathomed reason. If that is the case the I must commend you on doing a reasonably good job.
Gene H:
how many words do you know? 15,000, 20,000?
I’m fairly certain that those conditions and their attendant adjectives are not mutually exclusive, Mike.
Okay, Bron. You’re about to get your ass kicked. I’m not as smart as Gene or Tony (in alphabetical order), but I’m a lot smarter than you. I’m getting tired of being nice, shit-for-brains. I’ve had it with your nonsense. I’m not as philosophical as Gene or Tony. But in a way, I understand you better than they do. Go home to your mother.
Re: Gene’s question as to what Bron is doing here perhaps sociopath is the wrong adjective. Considering his ineffectiveness in debate, losing every one, might we consider masochist and yes I am a shrink with an Ivy League Masters who was awarded a full tuition scholarship.
As for calling names Bron, you are the one calling those you disagree with Marxists, but don’t even understand the term
Bron,
That’s pretty funny considering how often you get busted for making up the meaning of both general vocabulary words and technical terms to suit your arguments (such as they are). I don’t define words for my benefit. I know what they mean. I would hazard to say that I have a larger English vocabulary than anyone you know. I define them to illustrate to others how utterly full of crap you are in trying to hijack definitions.
As for being anointed? I don’t care what the greed pimp Sowell thinks about anything, but anointed means (in that context) “to choose by or as if by divine election”. I don’t think I’m chosen. I don’t think I’m special. I don’t think I’m always right. I do, however, think I’m right unless you can prove my arguments and/or reasoning wrong – something you have consistently failed to do.
But you’re not interested in winning arguments, are you? By your own admission that is not what you come here for. If you think I’m wrong?
Prove it.
Good luck.
You haven’t been able to do so to date.
However, that brings up the point once again. You’re not here to win arguments or persuade others that your views are right. You’ve said so more than once (usually after it has been pointed out – again – that you’ve never once won an argument here). This inevitably leads to the question you have never answered, Bron.
What do you get out of coming here exactly?
If you motive isn’t to win over converts in the free marketplace of ideas to your way of thinking, what exactly do you get from coming here and getting trounced on a regular basis?
OK you guys have completely confused me.
I thought we were eating chickens and eggs (which first?) and now we’re eating a certain flavor grapes.
I have to leave now; I’m hungry.
Gene H:
protest all you want, Thomas Sowell call it the Vision of the Anointed, you definitely think you are an anointed one.
since you like definitions so much [I imagine you are just learning these words and write them down to help you learn, I used to that when I was younger. I have a pretty broad vocabulary and do very well on vocabulary tests. So I can vouch for writing down the words].
I don’t like Skippy. And I don’t like Bron. Neither of them is elitist, they just want to think they are.
I will eat the grapes. Assuming they’re the right flavor.
Bron,
Elite? I’m a stated and demonstrated egalitarian and small “d” democrat, Bron.
egal·i·tar·i·an·ism \-ē-ə-ˌni-zəm\, n.,
1: a belief in human equality especially with respect to social, political, and economic affairs
2: a social philosophy advocating the removal of inequalities among people
Contrast with . . .
elit·ism \ā-ˈlē-ˌti-zəm, i-, ē-\. n.,
1: leadership or rule by an elite
2: the selectivity of the elite; especially : snobbery
3: consciousness of being or belonging to an elite
They are antithetical terms and states of being, Bron.
You, however, are an elitist as defined and demonstrated by your belief in Objectivism and the anti-democratic ideals expressed by your Libertarian brethren like Skippy. I don’t think anyone is special but I do think everyone is unique and should have a say in government not just those who have money. That I’m not an elitist is borne evident by the fact we a politically diametrically opposed.
Sour grapes? What if you can’t even get the low hanging fruit?
You’ll have to do better than that, Bron.
By the way, your constant disparagement of rhetoric – the art of speaking or writing effectively – just reveals your own feelings of inferiority and attempts to use the term a pejorative. Rhetoric is not only a skill that in and of itself requires intelligence, to be successful in applying rhetoric to successful argumentation requires a solid base of logic and fact to build upon. In short, you win arguments by having the right answer and the proof to back up your conclusions.
Actually, I win arguments in public. Right here. All the time.
The rest of what you say is . . .
I think drinking beer is better. I used to drink beer with the Marines. I was a Squid.
Gene H:
By the way, when we have argued in the past, time usually proves me right even though your rhetoric is supperior it doesnt comport with reality in most cases. Dont feel bad that is a common failing with many liberals. They have preconceived notions about many things that arent so and try to ruin people’s lives prooving they are right.
You and Tony C are classic examples of “elite” liberals. You are dangerous to society as we are seeing now with the Obama administration. Your kind are insinuated in this administration and making much trouble for the rest of us.
matt’s johnson:
I imagine Tony C would acknowledge that observation and not fight with Gene H over it.
Gene H:
no, a genius knows the right answer. You dont know the right answer to much of anything although you do a mighty job with rhetoric.
Your bullshit is supreme.
You win arguments in your own mind.
Hey Bron,
Are you a tool? Maybe a monkey wrench.
Bron,
How do you know Tony isn’t as smart as Gene? Do you want them to fight with each other? Maybe you could do it.
I got my degree from Boise State University. Then I passed the CPA exam.
“I dont know them in real life so it is hard to tell how smart they really are, with the internet you can appear to be a genius.”
Really. Then what’s your excuse for manifestly not being a genius, Bron? Now, how is that that you have the same access to the same tools and yet fail at winning arguments here?
A smart man knows a lot of facts. An intelligent man knows how to find an answer. A genius knows both in addition to how to ask the right questions and analyze and synthesize data into knowledge and/or logically valid hypotheses.
You regularly fall into the “none of the above” category and yet you have access to the Internet.
A tool is only as good as the user.