As a parent, this video of middle school students taunting a grandmother Karen Klein, 68, on a school bus is nothing short of revolting. The grandmother was on the bus as a monitor and is reduced to tears by the cruel comments and threats of the children. The bus belongs to the Greece Central School District in New York.
Police are now reviewing the video but I do not see why this is a criminal matter. It is a serious school matter. The students involved in this episode show an alarming degree of antisocial and threatening conduct — even for teenagers. I was left wondering how these children were raised and what the reaction of the parents will be to this video. The school’s reaction should be hand out suspensions and expulsions.
Source: MSNBC
Some of the solutions being proposed here are all wet. Spankings do not work; however mild, all they do is perpetuate the philosophy that “might makes right” and that stronger people have a right to hit weaker people in order to subdue them. (Where do you think they got the idea to try hitting this woman? Here, they are the stronger ones because they’re in a group, and she is the weaker one.) It is, however, absolutely true that suspensions and detentions won’t help, either. The punishment has to fit the crime, and the students need to learn empathy and compassion. Contrary to what some have said here, it’s not impossible for schools to teach these values, especially when parents fall down on the job. Ideally, parents would teach them (but not by spanking kids who failed to demonstrate them; that would accomplish nothing), but if they don’t, then yes, these values must be taught to the kids somewhere. Schools can do it if they use a solid evidence-based curriculum to create a bully-free environment. It has to incorporate empathy and send the message that if you wouldn’t want someone else to do it to you, it’s not OK to do it to someone else.
It’s also not true that all schools prevent students from being disciplined, lest their precious developing sense of self-esteem be harmed. There are schools and administrators who understand that part of growing up to be a responsible citizen and decent human being is learning that other people have feelings and that one needs to be able to share the world with them. These institutions do not believe that children are fragile snowflakes to be catered to and protected from the real world at all costs. They teach children to live in the real world. Parents should, too. The more parents and schools work together to raise children to be good people, the better off we’ll all be. But when the parents don’t do it, the right school can make all the difference.
After 30 years of REPUGlican de-regulation, what else you would expect?
If there were reasons to not vote for that bully Romney, this is but another.
Malisha said, “After that, I would do that whenever I saw a physically nonviolent “humiliation ritual” in public. Strangely, it works every time. It is as if their bullying only works if it is allowed to gather its own momentum by the paralysis of the non-bullying but non-protecting onlookers.”
The bullying here started out fairly tame. Instead of standing up to it, the woman shrank in her seat. (an observation, not a criticism) No one stopped the initial bullying (like the bus driver pulling over) and it gained steam and got worse, then more worse until it became completely obscene.. I think Malisha is right. If there had been an interruption at the beginning, the rest wouldn’t have happened. There is probably one really bad instigator, maybe two working together, and the rest just followed in mob fashion.
In the video I saw a handful of kids engaged in the outrageous conduct. While I agree that discipline has deteriorated in some schools in some areas, i would not issue the blanket indictment you do.~mespo727272
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I agree with you Mespo, I do not think the majority of parents are at fault either, even in homes where respect is taught and mirrored well it is often the exposure that kids get to the ‘element’ of society that becomes an unconscious and threatening influence. These kids are mirroring exactly what our society is telling them…..schools suck, teachers are expendable, old people are extra baggage that no one needs….all these things are being ‘taught’ to ALL THE CHILDREN in our society right now by a sick, un-balanced overculture that puts it’s money not where it’s mouth is, but in the pockets of the most divisive, exploitive and damaging private interests it can muster up. Even parents are fair game to these kids who are too young to know what has been given up for them and too smart in everything but knowing what they do not know….
Alexander
1, June 21, 2012 at 11:33 pm
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Thank you for doing the job that the local police, school administration and lawyers get paid to do…ie; know and apply the law to protect the public…
Now if we could protect the public from the ‘law’….
David Blauw
1, June 21, 2012 at 11:00 pm
…
I’m going back into the jungle and saddle up an elephant. That has to impress someone! )
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I’m very impressed that you watch shows about elephants….I used to have a signed copy of a book called ‘Elephant Memories’ by Cynthia Moss, I had met the authoress in Africa and it was a prized possession. Stolen by local thugs while I was ‘involved’ with court matters…
You are right, the older males were gone because they were poached leaving the younger males without anyone to teach them how to be Elephants. They reverted to jackals…
Manny O:
“This kind of behavior is common across american schools, but thats only a greater indictment on the average parent and the average kids that attend school in our society.”
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Not sure where that statistic came from but I can tell you this behavior is not typical. Even the victim says that. I have worked with hundreds of middle school age boys coaching them in football, baseball, and basketball. I was treated with respect by the overwhelming majority of them. (In fourteen years I can think of two counterexamples and they were quickly remedied by the parents.) And that goes for both on and off the court. Does every example of disrespect suggest that is the norm? What about all the acts of respect performed by middle school kids? They mean nothing?
Here in the Richmond area we have most every middle school and high school age kid engaging in some type of community service from mentoring younger kids to cleaning parks. I’n not so naive to think that it doesn’t have something to do with resume building but it’s done and it helps the community.
In the video I saw a handful of kids engaged in the outrageous conduct. While I agree that discipline has deteriorated in some schools in some areas, i would not issue the blanket indictment you do.
Mespo727272,
The difference in what you’re saying though is kids that are involved in activities….it has been my experience that it is kids that don’t participate in constructive activities that behave this way. But I understand you not wanting blanket statements made. There are exceptional kids all over the country, unfortunately they are quickly becoming a minority.
Of course there should be criminal charges brought!!! They threatened her with bodily harm, and I don’t doubt that the little snots would follow through if given the chance. I say drop their little behinds in big boy/girl jail with the gangsters and petiphiles etc… their parents too. Give them a taste of where there horrific behaviors will put them in the future.
Also, please don’t blame the district. Due to the new idea of talking things out with children and being afraid to squelch their personalities (which are so impressive as you can see from the video – sarcasm) school personnel can’t do anything to these kids other than say “now that’s not nice”. Parents need to learn that it is their responsibility to raise children to be respectful upstanding citizens, and that a well placed paddle (not beating) during childhood precursed by a discussion of what their bad behaviior was and consequences would go a long way in curbing the kind of behavior seen on this video. There seems to be a lack of understanding in today’s children that behavior x results in consequence y and even if it is uncomfortable for them, it is a direct result of a decision they thought they were “adult” enough to make.
I disagree that this is not criminal. She’s 68 and they made threats. How is she supposed to sleep at night knowing there are a bunch of foul-mouthed, disrespectful kids who hate this woman? What’s stopping them from going to her house and setting something on fire? Obviously the parents won’t stop it after the “great” job they did raising these kids.
Also, what if the 68 year old woman had taped what these kids were saying? She would have got in trouble for taping it. But since another kid did, it’s not an issue. Why is that?
ICE Secure Communities versus CA Trust Act
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/opinion/californias-trust-act.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120622
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ICE Secure Communities
http://www.ice.gov/secure_communities/#top
So, whatever you are brought to jail for, you are fngerprinted, your pints cmapared to see it you are a legal risident, and what your criminal record is. And what is the nature of allegation filed against you now.
If ICE wants to it files a detainer, then they fetch´you, and you leave the coountry.
Dimple? California does not like it. See above for more info.
Are you all registered citizens? What do you have for proof of that? Do you look hispanic? Good luck.
Alexander, I agree with you. What the kids did was to shamelessly humiliate a person who had not harmed them. They kept it up because they enjoyed watching her pretend that she did not hear their words and did not really fear their threats, when in truth she did both and it caused her enormous damage.
When I was younger and saw something like that happen (never to that degree thank god) I used to seek out some authority to stop it but then I gradually came to realize that usually authorities don’t stop it. At some point (it had to be when I was already over 40) I had a kind of light go on, and I realized that by “counter-irritation” I could interrupt the process, but it had to be both pointed and obvious. So then one day I was in a subway in DC at night and a woman was sitting there and up comes a guy who starts to harass her and humiliate her, without physically attacking her. She obviously did not know who he was. At first I was confused, then I identified it as a humiliating verbal assault.
I got up, and noisily approached, and sat across from them (there were plenty of empty seats) to break the “paralysis” feeling in the train. I plopped down on the seat and said: “Here I am” loudly. The woman pretended not to notice what I had done and she continued to pretend not to notice what the guy was doing to her. He looked up for a second and then spoke to her again in a lower voice. I said, “SPEAK UP I CAN’T HEAR YOU!” He said, “Who are YOU?” I said, “WHOEVER I AM, none of your business, WHO ARE YOU?” He looked like a circuit had been interrupted. The woman continued to look down. The guy got off at the next stop.
After that, I would do that whenever I saw a physically nonviolent “humiliation ritual” in public. Strangely, it works every time. It is as if their bullying only works if it is allowed to gather its own momentum by the paralysis of the non-bullying but non-protecting onlookers.
In that respect it reminds me of incest in the family. It goes on as long as there is a paralyzed non-response from the non-offending adults. Even when it becomes fairly obvious that it is happening, the “non-screaming of the onlookers” is its nourishment. I guess the Sandusky trial made me think of this analogy.
“. . . on grading period”
should be
“ONE grading period.”
My father taught high school for three or four years. His first experience was in a tobacco-growing area. Kids skipped school to help with farm duties. The principal and school superintendent were so afraid of their jobs that my father quit his. He managed a service station and then a credit union before trying teaching again. He went to a community where the kids boasted about driving out the last 3 history teachers. If he sent a kid to the office, the principal sent him back. We lived in a second floor duplex. When a group of girls gathered under the windows to serenade us with filthy lyrics, my mother poured a huge washtub of water on them. When a group of boys sent a filthy letter to my dad, he took the letter and handwriting samples to postal inspectors. Four seniors got a choice of jail starting in June or military enlistments in June. He was told by the principal that he was a babysitter -nothing more – if he didn’t like it, he could hand in his resignation. He resigned on grading period short of the school year’s end. He took a job in a steel mill while getting a second Master’s Degree, in order to become a college teacher. Instead, he was hired by the steel mill to be trained as a systems engineer. That was in the late 50’s, when computers had their own air-conditioned room.
I’m a little shocked that Jonathan Turley does not think this is a Criminal Act. I suggest that he reads the New York Hate Crimes Act of 2000, P.L. 485.05. The Act defines broadly acts against those 60 years and older. Also the lady is 68 years old. Therefore, the New York Elder Abuse Laws take effect. Abuse of someone over 60 is Elder Abuse in New York state and police are obligated to arrest them regardless of age under statute. Since there is a video and 2 students have admitted to committing this crime under New York Law (again, does not regard age) the Greece Police are obligated to make an arrest.
Woosty’s still a Cat
Here I was suggesting there may be IMPORTENCE in the presence of mature males. Yet in a few accurate words you took the R right out of importance. Turned it into IMPOTENCE !! …… I’m going back into the jungle and saddle up an elephant. That has to impress someone! :o)
Dear Manny,
I find myself cringing at what you write; not because I think it’s wrong but because it is something I find myself agreeing with and don’t really want to.
I consider myself quite tolerant politically and morally and abhor extreme thought whichever way. That said, I cheered as I read your comments. Every year I have eager parents who want to help out (and this is in a school considered middle-class and with high scored on state tests etc.) and end up discouraged working alongside me. There is, as you said, almost nothing left in our tool belt (bad choice of word) to conduct an orderly class. No support from the administration; the me-me attitude from parents; larger classrooms; less money; threats of lay-offs. I spent about 10 years in both a low-performing school and 12 in this higher performing schools. Respect comes from having learned it AT HOME, in the COMMUNITY. at CHURCH, at GRANMA’s. Once we get them at school a pattern is set and no matter what I tried to roll the ball up the mountain, students who do the best at school academically and emotionally most often have parents who take responsibility for their own actions and that of their children. I wish I could invite this grandma to volunteer in my class next school year; that is, if I am allowed to have rules and consequences and feel supported when I reinforce them. No need for her to have one more nasty experience!
now that is nice indeed…..
I just heard that a web-based organization put the video on it’s web site and started a fund to raise, maybe, $5,000.00 so she could have a nice getaway vacation. To date, the public has contributed over $300,000.00, and the fund is going to be receiving until July 20th. She’ll be able to retire now and not have to put up with these little pusillanimous ingrates anymore. Well done!
have school admin call parris island to see if there are any d.i.’s about to retire that would like to work with children.
A better question is how can she be a bus monitor with no authority to deal with wastes of flesh/bones like these kids.
Respect should not be needed. It doesn’t matter what these waste of space ingrates “think” of her. What matter is what tools she has to force them into submission so they can at least feign civility even though they are savages and evidently there are no tools and the shite for brains kids know it.
What is she supposed to do? spank them? threaten them with what? Report that the kids called her fata s s more times than I can count to some other neutered adult after the fact? At the least she would be embarrassed to even report such things to another adult.
To me this is one example of the the result of the neutered politically correct society that so many have foisted in schools and in homes. These kids can do/say whatever they want because they have no punishment to fear and the authority figures/bus monitors are absolutely powerless/toothless to force a stop to what I see as clear cut criminal assault and sexual harassment
I think this is exactly right.