A new report shows that the day after killing Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman passed a police lie detector test. He registered truthful in stating that he was afraid for his life before shooting the teen. The report does not materially affect the trial since such tests are not admissible but may explain the the resistance of local officials to bring the case. It also further supports the view, again, that Angela Corey overcharged the case. She was no doubt aware of the test which, while not admissible as evidence because their reliability is questioned, can be considered by the prosecutors in determining the appropriate charge. UPDATE: A police report shows a critical view of Zimmerman’s account and says that he missed two opportunities to defuse the situation.
Zimmerman willingly submitted to a computer voice stress analyzer (CVSA) “truth verification” on February 27 and the test “was classified as No Deception Indicated (NDI).” This included the question of “Did you confront the guy you shot?’ He answered, “No.” He was rated as telling the truth in both saying that he did not confront Martin and that he was in fear of his life.
Also released recently are further details from Zimmerman to the police. Zimmerman insisted that the teen knocked him down and began to pound his head in the sidewalk while telling him “You’re going to die.” Zimmerman claims Trayvon reached for the gun and that he grabbed it to protect himself.
Both the question of fear and the party responsible for the confrontation could be distorted by Zimmerman’s perspective and not accepted objectively by third parties. Of the two questions, however, the confrontation question is the most interesting. It is rare for targeted suspects to agree to lie detectors, though I have agreed to such tests in past cases.
Once again, this evidence does not rule out the basis for a criminal charge, but in my view strongly militates against a charge greater than manslaughter. In fairness to the local officials, the evidence also offers support for their view that no charge was appropriate. One can disagree with that conclusion, but they may have had solid reasons for opposing a charge. That does not excuse sloppy police work and there was still a basis to detain Zimmerman at the scene. However, the case has become more muddled with such new evidence. As a criminal defense attorney, I have always viewed this case as one with strong defense arguments for trial. While the odds always favor the prosecution, the factual record has a number of elements that could create reasonable doubt. Obviously, the trial itself can present facts in different light and the prosecution has yet to be fully heard in the case.
Source: NY Daily News
A fascinating discussion is definitely worth comment. I do believe that you ought to write more on this subject matter, it may not be a taboo subject but typically folks don’t
talk about such topics. To the next! All the best!!
While I understand that there are a number of people who have posted in response to this article, I find it interesting that Mr. Zimmerman agreed to such a exam. I am a retired police office and a expert in the use of the CVSA. The exam is valid, is very accurate and can not be beat.
Until today I did not realize that Zimmerman took the CVSA the day following the event but passed NDI or no deception indicated. I have followed this trail closely and have not heard any evidence presented by the prosecution that would refute the statement of Zimmerman or the results of the CVSA. I disagree with the prosecution “reaching” for a charge of 2nd degree murder and feel public pressure and the unnecessary redarick of individuals like Rev. Al Sharpton. Unfortunately Zimmerman can no longer get a fair trail because it was already tried in the press and in public opinion.
The prosecution should have tried Zimmerman for manslaughter if they wanted a sure win.
The the truth never changes and Zimmerman’s story has never changed. It has been consistent from the start. It does not surprise me he passed the CVSA because I actually believe he was Martin was beating him and that Zimmerman was in fear for his life. The rest of this is just a show.
I came back to this thread because I remembered something interesting (I think) from my divorce. My husband had signed a paper that said, “I know that my wife, [name omitted], is leaving the marital home on [date omitted} and I consent.”
He then brought an action against me for desertion claiming lack of consent. When he was confronted with the document, he admitted signing it and explained (without a hint of embarrassment) that the word “consent” on the document did not indicate his consent. Asked what it DID mean, he said that he knew I was leaving and that I would leave no matter what so he signed it. Asked again if he had consented he denied it.
The damn stupid magistrate believed him, and only decided in my favor because my lawyer pointed out that I had a right to rely upon his having signed the document as indicating his consent. When my lawyer saw the written decision he was flabbergasted because the fool had written that “in the husband’s mind, the word ‘consent’ did not imply consent.”
The reason I came back to this thread when I remembered that is this: “Confront the guy” could mean something quite different to George Zimmerman than what it means to a rational, normal person. “Confront the guy” to us might mean confront the guy. To him, what he did, by demanding an explanation from Trayvon Martin, might not have implied “confrontation.” Perhaps in George’s stunted mind, to reach the point of “confront,” George would have to say some certain phrase such as: “I confront you.”
And whether he was telling the truth when he said he feared for his life? To George that might mean that he felt a rush of fear. I am sure that he DID feel a rush of fear because something he had planned out to show what a hero he was had turned sour, had gone “south,” and was falling apart in front of his eyes. He was surely afraid. Afraid that the thing wasn’t going his way. To him, that could be just equivalent to “fear for [his] life.”
Not that this is important. Corey did her job and those who are still whining about it will have to await the outcome of the action. But reliance on George’s word after the bold-faced lies he told would not approximate justice any more than “homie” approximates “sir.”
Oh yes it’s been a while since this thread was active, but I feel like posting this tid-bit now. I just re-listened-to the tapes of the Singleton/Serino interviews of George Zimmerman before and after he did his “lie detector test.” Guess what?
Serino asked him for his educational attainments. He answers, unequivocal answer, “Associates Degree in Criminal Justice.”
In answer to a question about whether he is free on 2/27/2012, George volunteers that he will be in class and he adds, also without a question pending: “I’m continuing on for a Bachelors…in political science.”
In view of things like this where George Zimmerman deliberately and actively lies when there is no particular reason TO lie (i.e., it is not necessary to lie about these things in order to avoid imprisonment), what could anybody possibly care if his voice shows stress or doesn’t show stress when he says the walls of the interview room are not green? Somebody explain to me the importance of testing how a guy’s voice is when he lies, if we know that his voice was just fine while he murdered?
Merci pour cet article, j’attends la suite avec impatience. je l’ajoute à mes favoris. Bravo !
formation référencement http://referencementgoogleimage.wordpress.com devenir expert seo
Something that didn’t pop out at me in the beginning of this thread: Professor Turley assumed that the police WANTED George to take the VSA test and he agreed to it. Quite different scenario, in fact. GEORGE asked for the VSA test and the tester-guy said to him, “your wish is granted.” That’s why it was designed in such a way as to give him the most chance of sailing through it without a real challenge. My bet is that Osterman told him to ask for it, he was eager to do it because it’s easily fooled (much easier than a polygraph properly administered, BTW) and it would help him slither out of his responsibility to face criminal charges. Even when defense spin is put on it.
Do you know why George’s voice does not register stress when he lies? Because he does not know any other way of talking. He and his family have lived on lies all their lives; he has been brought up on lies; he cut his teeth on lies; he speaks and lies come out.
“I graduated with an associates degree in criminal justice.”
“The suspect emerged from the darkness”
“Trayvon Martin broke my nose”
“He smashed my head on the ground over and over”
“I cried out for help but nobody helped me”
“I am not a racist”
Why would, “the walls are green and I feared for my life and I did not confront ‘the guy’ whom I ‘had to’ kill” cause this guy any stress?
It wouldn’t cause me any stress to say, “I’m always right and whoever disagrees with me on the Turley Blog is alwyas wrong,” now, would it?
Uh oh — new evidence shows Zimmerman barfed.
“Afraid for the Zimmermans’ safety, Osterman took the couple in from the very first night of the shooting. His 172-page book describes how Zimmerman told the story of the killing over and over again until he was physically drained. When he told it to police, Osterman said, Zimmerman threw up.
Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/21/3545938/george-zimmermans-friends-book.html#storylink=cpy”
Remember, you first read it here (as in, not in the evidence provided by either Zimmerman or the police…)…
Oh boy, today’s on-line dose of “bullcrap news” says:
===================
MIAMI — Trayvon Martin grabbed his killer’s gun just moments before he died and uttered a profanity-laced threat. In a desperate life-or-death struggle, George Zimmerman clutched Trayvon’s wrist, broke his grip on the semi-automatic firearm and shot him once in the chest.
That account appears in a new book written by Zimmerman’s best friend and confidante.
There’s just one problem: Zimmerman never said that to the police.
Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/09/21/169233/george-zimmermans-friends-book.html#storylink=cpy
=========================
“There’s just one problem” has not counted very carefully. I can count two (2) problems. One: “Zimmerman never said that to the police.”
TWO: That didn’t happen.
Yet right now, if that same voice-stress analyst were to give Osterman a voice-stress analysis test similar to the one that he gave George the day after Trayvon Martin died, here’s what I bet you would have heard:
“Are the walls green?”
NO
“Did you ever get stopped for speeding?”
NO
“Did George tell you honestly that Trayvon Martin grabbed his gun and he had to gain control of Trayvon’s wrist and get the gun back away from Trayvon in order to defend his own life that night?”
YES
“Did you help George construct a story that you thought would make it look like self-defense?”
NO
And guess what, Osterman would pass.
I quote here from the Professor’s article on another thread:
“Ward had previously worked for the Joint Chiefs of Staff in Washington, but appears to have passed all testing (and presumably a lie detector) to assume control of a billion dollar nuclear submarine. He reportedly met the woman on a dating site and he had learned that the twenty-something woman was pregnant. She later lost the baby due to complications.”
So, now, let’s just revisit the issue of George Zimmerman’s credibility, since defense lawyers as prestigious as Dershowitz (Harvard) have weighed in showing that they believe George Zimmerman when he describes what happened the night he killed Trayvon Martin.
George Zimmerman said two testable syllables: one YES and one NO, when he took a “voice stress analysis” test at HIS OWN REQUEST on the premises of the SPD.
So that means we are obliged to believe him, huh? Didn’t work for this Naval officer, did it?
About telling the truth and lying:
O’Mara did not claim that his client was being truthful about his passport and his money, only that Judge Lester had made negative gratuitous COMMENTS about his client.
So the story is: OK George lied but it wasn’t nice to say bad things about him.
And the story is: He only lied because he was mistrustful, frightened and confused.
——————————-
Well I’m glad we cleared THAT up.
Because here’s what I think:
George lied about the events that occurred before he killed Trayvon Martin; but it’s not nice to charge him with murder; he only killed Trayvon because he was confused (about whether he was allowed to target, trail and kill someone for making him suspicious), mistrustful (of a55holes who try to get away) and frightened (that someone was gonna take away his gun because of his inappropriate aggressive behavior on neighborhood watch).
So let’s just forget about what George did when he was frightened, confused and mistrustful and let’s move along to really HEALING by agreeing that it was all part of God’s Plan. OK?
Perhaps the new judge will go for this one.
NEWS: O’Mara got Zimmerman a new judge.
Probably the judge will be Debra S. Nelson — someone who, according to her cases, does NOT like to be played for a fool. I am trying not to giggle and sneer because it seems to me that whereas Lester’s decisions could possibly, in the future, seem biased against George Zimmerman by his having announced his negative opinion of George’s obviously impaired credibility, this new judge can see for herself what a liar George is and nobody can criticize her for whatever she learns! Plea deal, folks. “No comment no comment no comment no comment plea deal.” Oh, but first, O’Mara will rack up another quarter million in legal fees trying to reverse everything that has happened so far, while the no-commentators sit and wait and while George trolls around for more money.
I doubled back and listened to about a dozen web-sites saying George said “coons” or George said “punks” after the adjective “f*cking” on the tape, and I confess at this point I have heard it both ways.
George insists that he said “F*cking Punks.”
OK, let’s say it’s “punks.”
George believes that absolves him of hints of racism AND of guilt? How?
If you see someone walking along, and you don’t like it, how does that make the guy a punk, much less a “f*cking punk”?
If you call a Black kid a “F*cking punk” without any evidence that he has done something wrong to deserve your scorn and malice, how does that prove you’re not a racist?
AND if a voice analyst (Tom Owen, who weighed in on the controversy by saying the word spoken in a whisper was “punks”) is used to determine that the word was “punks” and not “coons,” and that voice analyst is the same one who opined that the voice screaming “Help Help” was not Zimmerman’s, exactly where does his expertise start and where does it stop? Was he RIGHT about the “punks” and WRONG about the “help”? Or right about both, and George only called Trayvon a punk and then lied about who was screaming HELP HELP? Or wrong about both, and George first called Trayvon a “coon” and then yelled “HELP HELP” before killing him?
Because now these F*cking master-splayers have refused the insurance to the point where I boomed really snow what was dead, and it’s murally in-snorted because needier George shrilled Trayvon Martin with pull Alice, or in shelf compense. If so, he should either wonk or have an incision.
If I had kept a notebook of all the things I have forgotten in this case, it would be time to go buy a new notebook.
You know how when something comes up in the case, the wire service puts out a story and then the first ten newspapers covering it use the same first sentence, at least, verbatim? Well On March 12, 2012, two weeks after the killing of Trayvon Martin, BEFORE Sharpton and Jackson had momentum, there were identical headlines all over the place saying that
Neighbourhood watch captain who shot unarmed black teen ‘had history of aggressive tactics’- but won’t face charges
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2114152/Trayvon-Martin-shot-dead-Police-say-theres-evidence-dispute-claim-neighbourhood-watch-captain-George-Zimmerman-acted-self-defence.html#ixzz24b7l2M6a
Apparently, Police Chief Bill Lee had gotten information from several residents of The Retreat who were concerned not only about George coming to their houses and carrying on with them about the high crime rate, the need for guns, and the idea that young Black men were preying on his neighborhood, but specifically about him patrolling the neighborhood with a loaded gun and scaring them and their guests! Perhaps the only reason Trayvon’s father didn’t hear about all this was that he was not there while he was driving his truck, or was not there when George was making his rounds, or something. But plenty of people at The Retreat were concerned well before Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin. And they told the police. And they did not get an appropriate police response. And as a result, their neighborhood was unsafe. And now their neighborhood really IS a high-crime neighborhood, by the statistics!
George doesn’t understand the problem of using “alternative pleading” without stuffing his feet into his mouth.
“Let me get out of Seminole County so I can see my lawyer.”
OK, go to Orange County to your lawyer’s office.
“Well then let me get out of Florida because of the threats.”
“Trayvon was a ‘suspect’ because he was checking me out with his hand in his waistband and I don’t know what his thing was.”
OK, stay put, we’ll come check him out.
“Shit, he ran.”
Where did he run?
“Towards the back entrance to the neighborhood.”
OK. We don’t need you to follow him.
“OK…He emerged from the darkness and beat me almost to death and my head almost exploded and I had to kill him and I spread his hands apart because he might hit me with something again.”
OK.
“But he wasn’t running; he wasn’t scared; and I wasn’t scared either because I keep forgetting street addreses because I have ADD.”
OK.
“And he broke my nose and bashed my head in.”
OK
“And you don’t need records from my doctor because they’re private.”
OK.
“And you don’t need to violate my privacy.”
OK.
“Because I’m not pregnant.”
OK.
“And I have no money.”
OK.
“OK, so long, I gotta go now, these Blacks are threatening me.”
OK
The subpoena is for ALL RECORDS; George only provided three pages of them so far.
By the fact that O’Mara resisted the subpoena, I would bet that there are many MANY more records that will have to be turned over now.
The medical report from his GP has been available for some time.
http://184.172.211.159/%7Egzdocs/documents/zimmerman_bond_hearing_exhibits/george_zimmerman_medical_report.pdf
That has
“We discussed that it is likely broken, but does not appear to have septial deviation.The swelling and black eyes are typical of this injury. I recommended that he be evaluated by ENT but he refused”
It also mentions
“Scalp Lacerations: No sutures needed given well-approximated skin margins. Continue to clean with soap and water daily.
We discussed the red flag symptoms that would warrant imaging given the type of assault he sustained. Given the type of trauma, we discussed that it is imperative that he be seen with his Psychologist for evaluation.”
This last part is probably the source of the problem
Zimmerman went off to his psychologist.
If you watch the first part of the Stress Test video, in which he is waiting and talking about how his day went, about 5 minutes in, you’ll see him mention this visit.
Then there is a silence.
Then .. “and that’s when it really hit me” (As in when he talked with the psychologist.)
After another silence he goes into that “Did you ever have to shoot someone?” looking stern – not questioning authority etc,
I’m sure that the prosecution would kill to get a fly-on-the-wall of that visit to the psychologist.
Quite obviously, and clearly by Zimmerman’s later conversation on that video, the struggle and the shooting was the main issue.
The psychologist would have a huge insight into the matter.
Apparently the medical records subpoenaed last week (and ruled on today) that will stay in judge’s chambers are records of George’s visit to the clinic ten miles away from Sanford the day AFTER the killing of Trayvon Martin! How dare they suggest that these records were not necessary to the prosecution’s case; of course they are! The interesting thing is that they did not want these records revealed…it makes me suspect that the visit resulted in NO finding that George would have wanted to reveal publicly.
Obviously, had that medical office diagnosed a broken nose and serious head injury, George would have been posting it on his web-site for months now. It makes me even more secure in my conclusion that George Zimmerman is a damned liar and that the SPD helped him try to cover up a murder.