Report: Zimmerman Passed Lie Detector Test After Martin Killing

A new report shows that the day after killing Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman passed a police lie detector test. He registered truthful in stating that he was afraid for his life before shooting the teen. The report does not materially affect the trial since such tests are not admissible but may explain the the resistance of local officials to bring the case. It also further supports the view, again, that Angela Corey overcharged the case. She was no doubt aware of the test which, while not admissible as evidence because their reliability is questioned, can be considered by the prosecutors in determining the appropriate charge. UPDATE: A police report shows a critical view of Zimmerman’s account and says that he missed two opportunities to defuse the situation.

Zimmerman willingly submitted to a computer voice stress analyzer (CVSA) “truth verification” on February 27 and the test “was classified as No Deception Indicated (NDI).” This included the question of “Did you confront the guy you shot?’ He answered, “No.” He was rated as telling the truth in both saying that he did not confront Martin and that he was in fear of his life.
Also released recently are further details from Zimmerman to the police. Zimmerman insisted that the teen knocked him down and began to pound his head in the sidewalk while telling him “You’re going to die.” Zimmerman claims Trayvon reached for the gun and that he grabbed it to protect himself.

Both the question of fear and the party responsible for the confrontation could be distorted by Zimmerman’s perspective and not accepted objectively by third parties. Of the two questions, however, the confrontation question is the most interesting. It is rare for targeted suspects to agree to lie detectors, though I have agreed to such tests in past cases.

Once again, this evidence does not rule out the basis for a criminal charge, but in my view strongly militates against a charge greater than manslaughter. In fairness to the local officials, the evidence also offers support for their view that no charge was appropriate. One can disagree with that conclusion, but they may have had solid reasons for opposing a charge. That does not excuse sloppy police work and there was still a basis to detain Zimmerman at the scene. However, the case has become more muddled with such new evidence. As a criminal defense attorney, I have always viewed this case as one with strong defense arguments for trial. While the odds always favor the prosecution, the factual record has a number of elements that could create reasonable doubt. Obviously, the trial itself can present facts in different light and the prosecution has yet to be fully heard in the case.

Source: NY Daily News

383 thoughts on “Report: Zimmerman Passed Lie Detector Test After Martin Killing

  1. Does a pathological liar easily pass these tests? Because I have known liars who actually believe their lies even when you produce all evidence to the contrary.

    Maybe he passed because George is afraid for his life all the time, he cannot help but be very, very afraid of anything he cannot understand or control..

  2. What shano said.

    He didn’t pass the lie detector known as “the judge,” who put him and his wife in jail for lying under oath.

    I guess that is another loss for “machine intelligence.”

  3. Does VSA actually work?

    According to a recent study funded by the National Institute of Justice (NIJ), two of the most popular VSA programs in use by police departments across the country are no better than flipping a coin when it comes to detecting deception regarding recent drug use. The study’s findings also noted, however, that the mere presence of a VSA program during an interrogation may deter a respondent from giving a false answer.

    Deceptive respondents. Fifteen percent who said they had not used drugs—but who, according to their urine tests, had—were correctly identified by the VSA programs as being deceptive.

    Nondeceptive respondents. Eight and a half percent who were telling the truth—that is, their urine tests were consistent with their statements that they had or had not used drugs—were incorrectly classified by the VSA programs as being deceptive.

  4. Wait, are you unaware that lie detectors don’t work at all? Is this not known in the legal profession? It is well known in the science/technology fields. I think it was the National Academy of Sciences that concluded they should not be used “for any purpose”.

  5. Shano,
    Do the pathological liars you know lie and pass a computer voice stress analysis about those “lies”? Just because someone swears to tell the truth despite the evidence to the contrary doesn’t mean they don’t know they are lying. Anyone who’s been a teenager knows that. “Beating the test” requires much more than just trying to believe something. Keep in mind the analysis will last hours.

    Per Zimmerman, more likely than not, is not very experienced with lie detectors; it appears that he did it very soon after the incident which means he had little time to prepare for it.

    I put a lot of confidence in the results of Zimmerman’s test.

  6. Brooklyn REader: Do the people undergoing these stress test have access to pharmaceutical drugs like George?
    What is the effect of Adderal or Temazepam on the outcome of these tests?

  7. Don’t discount the friendly testers at “we love Zimmy” police HQ. That will be interesting to the feds who are looking at very skewed procedures.

    They can make all the difference in their world.

  8. Nal 1, June 26, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    Does VSA actually work?

    … the mere presence of a VSA program during an interrogation may deter a respondent from giving a false answer …
    Which may indicate that it is not scientific, in that, if the subjects did not know about a “lie detector” being used they would be more inclined to be themselves … to lie hard or tell the truth hard.

    Which should work better than intimidation of any form in the context of data analysis.

  9. “He registered truthful in stating that he was afraid for his life before shooting the teen.”

    Putting the fact aside that lie detector tests are not scientifically valid and that is why they can’t be used as evidence, I have no doubt that Zimmerman believed the statement above. The question should be that given the circumstances was his fear that which would pass the reasonable man standard. I contend that it doesn’t pass that standard. If we were to allow such latitude then I should be able to kill anyone walking in my direction on the street who scares me. Somehow I don’t think I’m allowed to do that, nor would even the most ardent defenders of stand your ground laws say that was their intent in writing those laws.

  10. The test was a voice stress test, not a polygraph. First of all, listen to the whole hour and 11 minutes — if you can stand the risk of dying from laughter. The control questions as to how Zimmerman’s voice sounds when he is lying? “Are the walls in this room green?” and “Were you ever pulled over for speeding?” Huh? He was rehearsed that he should lie about those two questions.

    Well, there’s no emotional content to either of those lies. I wouldn’t care if the walls were green or not and my lie about that question would not give me a second of stress. Likewise, “pulled over for speeding.” Who cares? Now, if you’re really trying to see how a person’s voice changes when they lie, ask (and this came from a real polygraph administered by a genuine expert in a real case): “Have you ever done something sexual that you were ashamed about later?”

    The test was clearly given to GIVE the police an excuse not to charge.

    Zimmerman’s credibility will be a big issue, essentially the main issue, if O’Mara wants to use the self-defense or SYG-self-defense ground, and that means, Zimmerman testifies and he can have the best voice in the whole world but when he answers the questions that arise for anyone (especially Sling Trebuchet) about the discrepancies between his statements and the physical evidence, the problems presented won’t be solved by some expert saying, “He’s really an honest guy.”

    It will come down to this honest guy who murdered an unarmed teen.

    They performed the voice stress test AFTER finding out that Trayvon Martin was not a criminal. They got George’s written statement (wherein he called Martin “the suspect”) BEFORE finding oout Trayvon Martin was not a criminal. In between those two times, Serino said “Murphy’s Law –” whatever can go wrong will go wrong.

    They might prove Zimmerman can pass a lie detector test yet, because he already passed a voice-stress test, but they can’t prove what he said on 2/26/2012 was true.

  11. Mike S, if “my being scared lets me kill someone I see in public” works, George Zimmerman can never go out in public again in his life. Somebody’s going to kill him and get away with it.

    Besides, I don’t agree he was afraid for his life because I don’t believe the scenario he painted was true; I think he was MAD AS HELL because he wasn’t getting total control of the situation and that was what dominated his motivations and his actions. I don’t believe that part about his fear.

  12. “Lie detectors” do not measure lies or truth. What they measure is stress and tension, both terms borrowed from physics. Most of these devices measure stress and tension very well and very accurately. The problem arises is when a subject is or is not feeling stress or tension.

    Dr. David Lykken did a number of studies on the polygraph and discovered something interesting about psychopaths. When he used the device on known psychopaths, he found they did not have anticipatory anxiety, and therefore did not respond as normal non-psychopathic persons would. He would warn them they would get a painful electric shock in a few seconds. The psychopaths did not have a stress response until just fractional seconds before the shock. Normal subjects began having a stress response as soon as they were advised a shock would be coming shortly.

    In Zimmerman’s case, there are three possible explanations: 1) he was telling the truth; 2) he felt he was in no danger even if he did lie and therefore did not have a stress response; or 3) he is a psychopath and did not have a normal stress response even when lying.

    When I was learning how these devices worked, the instructor cautioned the class to never ask about sex. He observed with a grin that everyone lies about sex, or even if they tell the truth, they often respond with a stress response anyway. The autonomic nervous system is funny that way.

  13. Of course Zimmerman passed a lie detector test; he believed, in his delusional mindset, that he was the “good guy.” He still lay in wait for a target, stalked the kid, and killed him. Sure, there may have been a moment when he was in fear for his life, but he set the whole chain of events in motion when he decided to go hunting for hoodies.

  14. Professor Turley, passing that voice-stress test would not, in my opinion, be as impressive to a prosecutor considering his credibility and considering whether to charge him based on HIS STORY or some other criteria as another little thing that happened during his interview with the administrator of the voice stress test: During the comfy cozy pre-test chit chat with the very friendly expert administering the test, dear little George Zimmerman, the victim of the violent sugar-crazed hoodie-bearing teen, said that BEFORE HE FELT TRAYVON MARTIN’S HAND REACHING FOR HIS OWN GUN, HE HAD ACTUALLY FORGOTTEN THAT HE WAS CARRYING THE GUN ON HIS LITTLE ADDRESS-SEARCH!!

    So criticism of Corey for NOT believing that George is credible is not, in my opinion, very convincing. Corey could have wondered, “DO I really believe that George forgot he was carrying his gun?” And she could have concluded, “No, I do not really believe that.” And she could have used that as part of her reason for not believing George at all.

    As would I have — and I bet a jury would — because of the “Hey c’mon principle” of law.

  15. I wouldn’t believe a word of it. Lie detectors tests are far less reliable than Computer Aided Automatic Screen Identification(TM). Unless of course he flunked the test. Than I’d believe it.

  16. I think the “overcharging” statement raises a bunch of questions. Once I saw the state indictment in the Rodney King case, i suspected overcharging. The state had to pretty much prove that the officers intended to kill King. And there were no lesser includeds. The state looks good for taking a hard line and the offending cops walk because the state is never going to make the case.

    Unless there are no lesser includeds in the Zimmerman case, the DA may have overreached. Oh, we’re in Florida. maybe not.

  17. Maybe Zimmerman should run for office…. Sounds like he has all the qualifications to even be president…..

    But then again, society as a whole is turning pathological……

  18. It is amazing how those who want to see Zimmerman punished seem to be willing to dismiss or discount ANY and ALL facts and circumstances that go aaginst their prejudice. And make no mistake about it, those who dismiss or discount facts and circumstances ARE prejudiced. On the other hand, those same prejudiced anti-Zimmerman minded people are more than willing to accept and believe any false or unsubstantiated “evidence” that could be taken (if believed) against Zimmerman. However, I enjoy reading the lame arguments of the anti-Zimmerman crowd, who never let facts, evidence, or expert opinions get in the way of a “good” story.

  19. Ralph Adamo 1, June 26, 2012 at 5:05 pm

    … And make no mistake about it, those who dismiss or discount facts and circumstances ARE prejudiced…
    That is why Zimmy and his wife are in jail for lying under oath.

  20. Oro Lee 1, June 26, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    Unless there are no lesser includeds in the Zimmerman case, the DA may have overreached. Oh, we’re in Florida. maybe not.
    In Florida the jury must be charged with the lesser included offenses as a matter of Florida state law.

  21. Apparently lie detectors are better suited for drawing out observer bias than truth; since they tend to induce observers to confess what they want to see.

  22. “Neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman missed two opportunities to try to peacefully approach Trayvon Martin before he fatally shot the unarmed teenager, according to an investigator’s report released Tuesday.
    “The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party’s concern,” investigator Chris Serino wrote in an arrest warrant affidavit.
    The affidavit was filed more than two weeks after the shooting when the Sanford Police Department was being criticized for not having arrested Zimmerman. Serino’s March 13 affidavit recommended Zimmerman be picked up for manslaughter, but a special prosecutor assigned to take over the case upped the charge to second-degree murder.
    The documents released Tuesday are part of the public pre-trial records filed in the criminal case.

    Zimmerman, 28, maintains he feared for his life and shot Martin in self-defense under Florida’s “stand your ground law.” He said he fired the fatal shot only after being ambushed and brutally attacked by the 17-year-old.”

    (May I break in here to say, this is the most unbelievable part of Zimmermans story. I do not believe this happened AT ALL.)

    The deadly encounter occurred in a gated Sanford, Fla., neighborhood where Zimmerman lived and Martin was staying with a family friend. Zimmerman called 911 to report Martin as a suspicious person walking through the area. He told the operator Martin was “up to no good” and “has his hand in his waist band.”
    In the report released Tuesday, police say Zimmerman contradicted himself by saying that he was initially fearful of Martin but later got out of his vehicle and followed after the teen.
    “His actions are inconsistent with those of a person who has stated he was in fear of another subject,” Serino wrote.
    The Orlando Sentinel reported Tuesday afternoon that Serino, Sanford’s lead investigator on the case, has been granted a request to move from detective work to patrol duty.”

    Yahoo News

  23. You people are pathetic, if he would have FAILED the test you’d all be demanding he be hung. Face it, Trayvon the Thug paid the price for his thuggery!

  24. Dredd informs me, “In Florida the jury must be charged with the lesser included offenses as a matter of Florida state law.”

    Thank you, Dredd. I hate lesser includeds. I think they are a major reason why innocent folks plead out. The DA might get lucky with the higher charge. Or an unsure jury might split the baby. And the defense attorney is obligated to inform the client of both possibilities.

  25. after a case i just worked on where the obviously, obviously guilty guy (the evidence was so overwhelming it was amazing and he was convicted) passed a polygraph with flying colors, i honestly couldn’t care less about whether anyone passes a polygraph

  26. Nal: “The study’s findings also noted, however, that the mere presence of a VSA program during an interrogation may deter a respondent from giving a false answer.”

    and the follow-up by Dredd: “Which may indicate that it is not scientific, in that, if the subjects did not know about a “lie detector” being used they would be more inclined to be themselves … to lie hard or tell the truth hard.”

    When I was in a business that required some level of certainty regarding the truth of a situation my business brought in a consultant to discuss lie detector tests and ‘truth serum’ use. This consultant was an ex LEO and now worked for a service that performed the tests in question so his take was hardly disinterested.

    The consult had two takeaways: non-chemical lie detection tests were totally unreliable and, the great virtue of the tests occur in the 15 minutes they took with the test subject setting up the test. A significant percentage (around 20%) of test subjects would be so stressed out that they would confess to lying in their original statement or in performing the alleged act. It would be worth the cost for an iffy but crucial witness or alleged perp but only for the quarter hour before the test starts.

  27. Last part of my posting got cut off in my edit program:

    He also went into great detail about the kind of situations and physical conditions that would lead to a subject being officially untestable, something that was also of interest to his customers.:-)

  28. Funny polygraph story (about real polygraphs). In about 1989 I was asked by some radio show host to debate Eric Foretich, accused of molesting his daughter(s), on radio. It was to be an hour-long show. I didn’t have much preparation to do. Foretich and I would each be at our own location and the radio host would have the producer call each of us and we’d do it like that. At five minutes before air time, I got a call from the producer who said that Foretich had just bowed out and refused to do the show. I said, “OK is it canceled then?” She said no, we were going to do the “debate” anyway but just with me. I said, “Oh goody, I like to talk too much.” We laughed. She hooked up the call when it came time. It was a call-in show where people would call in and ask questions or argue, etc. So I answered the guy’s questions for a while and then someone called in and said, “I heard Foretich took a lie detector test and passed” or else (my memory is spotty at this point) “would it impress you [satisfy you, whatever] if Foretich took a lie detector test and passed?” of something like that. I said no, it wouldn’t impress me at all because first of all, any good sociopath can pass a polygraph with no problem, but I’d like to see Foretich volunteer to take a plethysmograph. So we talked about that for a minute and then back to polygraph. Another caller wanted to know why I thought a sociopath could pass a polygraph even if he lied, and I said it was because he would not feel guilt when he told a lie, so to him, the test wouldn’t be able to measure his anxiety when he lied. I explained it, I hope, better than I have here. I added, “besides there are other ways to fool a polygraph, and especially if there has not been any drug screen performed first.” Some callers wanted to talk about that. (Essentially, if you do certain things first and during the test, your responses will not be measurable — unless polygraph technology has gotten a lot better during the years between the Foretich case and now.) So we did.

    Then there came a call from a guy who said he wanted to know: “Exactly what is it you do to fool the polygraph test?” I laughed and so did the talk show host. I answered, “Sorry, you’ll have to find that out for yourself.”

    This little voice stress test, with “are the walls green?” and “Were you in fear for your life?” is not only inadmissible, it’s worthless. By the way, while George is chatting with the guy who administered the test, he volunteered the “fact” that he had forgotten that he was carrying a loaded gun — until Trayvon Martin reached for it.

    Figure that.
    He said that sentence without any stress in his voice!

  29. LottaKatz, in the 15 minutes before Zimmerman’s test started, he volunteered the information that he had forgotten that he had a loaded gun on him until the actual time when he reached for his gun and shot Martin.


  30. here is something ironic

    If the headline was “Zimmerman fails lie detector test!!”. Most of the commentators would be saying (paraphrasing) SEE SEE! He is a filthy rotten LIAR… send him to the gallows!

    But when it says the opposite, “Zimmerman passed lie detector test!” it’s nothing but a bonanza of why lie detection test are total BS, anecdotes about fringe failures of lie detection tests or SEE SEE! Zimmerman is SOoooo EVIL that he doesn’t even KNOW when he is lying! Send him to the gallows!

    So it doesnt matter what the headline says…the conclusion is the same in those whose minds are already made up and they are just looking for any data that supports their forgone conclusion and contrary data is just water off a ducks back

  31. Oro Lee
    1, June 26, 2012 at 7:46 pm
    Definition: Thuggery – what happens to a young, black man who stands his ground

    1, June 26, 2012 at 7:57 pm
    Oro Lee

    while wearing a hoodie


    and talking on the phone

  32. Manny O, had Zimmerman even TAKEN a “lie detector test,” there would be a different debate going on right now. What he took was a voice stress test. It does not test the same things a polygraph tests; it tests voice STRESS. The fact that Zimmerman would not feel stress when he gives HIS story is pretty clear; if he pleads out, and he has to ELOCUTE, you will detect stress in his voice as he tells the REAL STORY.

    Of course, that doesn’t matter.

    The voice stress test was done BY the police and FOR the police so the police could do what they wanted to do. It is not admissible because there has not been the requisite proof shown that it is reliable. It is lower, on the credibility scale, than the polygraph, and even the polygraph is not admissible.

    All these tests show is how the PERP feels about what the PERP says he or she DID. If I do something that is against the law and constitutes a felony, and if I do not admit it for the very reason that if I admit it, I believe the law will unjustly punish me for something for which it should really REWARD me, I will feel absolutely ENTITLED to lie about it — as George felt entitled to direct his wife to lie about the money they hid — and then I will not feel stressed when I DO lie about it.

    Now, if Goerge Zimmerman were to take a battery of forensic tests, including the MMPI, PAI, VIP, SIRS, and projective tests, and THEN do a voice stress test and a polygraph, and if all of it were to be interpreted together, although that still wouldn’t PROVE that he lied or PROVE that he told the truth, it would come a lot closer to providing some real evidence of some real value.

    Until then, we can pretty much believe that he was telling the truth at the following times:

    1. When he told the dispatcher that he was following Trayvon Martin;
    2. When he cursed at Trayvon Martin, calling him a derogatory name;
    3. When he protested that the a55holes always got away;
    4. When he chose not to have the cops meet him at his vehicle, but instead, directed them to call him when they arrived in the community so he could tell them where he was THEN.

    He had no motive, at that time, to lie. And those statements, from George Z himself, lead to:

    Intent (followed “the suspect” when he was armed with a loaded gun)

    malice (called him an a55hole and cursed him)

    Choice not to follow police instructions (failing to stop following “the suspect”)

    Now a real voice stress test should have asked him these questions:

    “Is it true that you followed Trayvon Martin?”
    “Were you upset that the a55holes always get away?”
    “Were you convinced that Trayvon Martin was a criminal and that it was OK for you to tail him and catch him?”
    “Did you stop following Trayvon Martin and tell the police to meet you at your vehicle, when told to stand down?”
    “Do you think you had a right to kill Trayvon Martin?”

    You might find some stress, then. And all these questions were really quite natural considering his conversation with the dispatcher.

  33. A good friend of mine, a very successful prosecutor, used lie detectors all the time but paid no attention to the results on the machine. He had this really great investigator who would “observe” the subject whilst he/she was taking the test. It was upon the investigator’s opinion that my friend relied. His conviction rate was outstanding and quite a few suspects were dismissed after taking the test. His investigator was a human lie-detector.

  34. From Zimmerman’s own web-page dating back to 2005:

    The Miami Herald reported that Mr. Zimmerman’s lawyer, Mark O’Mara, has confirmed that the abandoned 2005 account belonged to his client. On the MySpace page, Mr. Zimmerman calls himself “Joe G.” and is pictured holding a small child. He writes about leaving Manassas, Va., with mixed emotions. He also refers to his two previous arrests, describes his former girlfriend as his “ex-ho” and makes an obscure reference about two friends who went to jail for a year and did not mention his apparent involvement in an unspecified crime, even though they could have had him “pinched.”

    In the section, where he writes about leaving Manassas, he says that he missed his old friends because “no one is going to have your back like your boys who grew up with you and are as scared of your mommas as you are. You know who you are, the same ones that would come ova and have my pops tie your tie before every school dance and interview.”

    Then, in a riff about why he does not miss his hometown, outside Washington, he makes remarks about Mexicans, using slang as he seemingly discussed recent immigrants.

    “I dont miss driving around scared to hit mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messin with peoples cars when they aint around (what are you provin, that you can dent a car when no ones watchin) dont make you a man in my book. Workin 96 hours to get a decent pay check, gettin knifes pulled on you by every mexican you run into!”

    So, George didn’t want to have to “drive around scared to hit Mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs…”

    George didn’t want to have to be scared to hurt people he thought of as thugs.

    After all, why SHOULD he be scared to hurt thugs? He’s a “good guy” — he should be ALLOWED to hurt thugs!

    Now if he was questioned about THIS stuff while he was hooked up to a polygraph, after a drug screen, well, then…

  35. Manny O,
    It does not matter one whit whether he passed or failed on the machine which is erroneously called a “lie detector.” If you want to get really technical, there is no such thing as a lie detector, or for that matter, a truth detector. There are machines that measure stress and tension in people and do it quite accurately. Some people show stress when lying, and in those cases we say the lie detector worked. Others may or may not show stress. That is exactly why the results of such “tests” are not admissible in court.

    When scientists and lawyer talk about tests and evidence there is often missed communication. When a scientist refers to something being “reliable” and “valid” those words have quite different meaning than that found in a law dictionary and the rules of evidence. A test is said to be reliable if it is repeatable. In other words, the test can be given repeatedly and the results of repeated testing will fall within the Standard Error of Measurement (SEM). In everyday life, you see the SEM in political polls and the like when the results say something like, “Accurate within 4.2%.” Validity means that a test measures what it purports to measure. A test of calories burned would not be expected to measure IQ. If we set out to measure some specific parameter, the test would have to actually measure what we think it measures. There are ways of determining that.

    There are two kinds of errors in testing. Type I and Type II. One is a false positive and the other a false negative. “Lie detectors” make both kinds of errors on a regular basis. Again, this is why they are not admissible into evidence.

    A kindly word of advice. If anyone in authority asks you to take a lie detector test, very politely decline on the basis that the technique is scientifically unsound, invalid and unreliable.

  36. The entire time that the test examiner was in the room was one hour. The first half hour he set up the computer, explained to GZ how it work, had GZ read and sign a paper, had GZ give a narration of what happened the night before. They took a 4-5 minute break.

    When they returned the examiner reviewed the 9 questions that he would ask GZ and the answers he would give for the control questions. These were rehearsed. About 2 minutes to calibrate the machine including recording GZ “yes” and “no”

    It took about a minute and a half to go thru them all.

    1. Is your name George? A: yes
    2. Is your name George? A: yes
    3. Is the color of the wall green? A: no [rehearsed lie]
    4. Is today Monday? A: yes [true]
    5. Did you confront the guy you shot? A: no
    6. Is this the month Feb? A: yes [true]
    7. Were in fear for your A: yes …… [GZ jumped in before end of question]
    8. Were in fear for your life when you shot the guy? A: yes
    9. Are we in the city of Sanford? A: yes [true]
    10. Have you ever driven over the posted speed limit? A: no [rehearsed lie]
    11. Did you ever drive over the posted speed limit? A: no [rehearsed lie]
    12. Am I wearing a watch? A: no [rehearsed lie]
    13. Am I wearing a watch? A: no [rehearsed lie]

    Above is a practice. Let’s do it again. Review of the control questions.

    1 min 10 seconds to go thru them again.

    1. Is your name George A: yes
    2. Is your name George A: yes
    3. Is the color of the wall green A: no [rehearsed lie]
    4. Is today Monday? A: yes [true]
    5. Did you confront the guy you shot? A: no
    6. Is this the month Feb? A: yes [true]
    7. Is this the month Feb? A: yes [true]
    8. Were in fear for your life when you shot the guy? A: yes
    9. Are we in the city of Sanford? A: yes [true]
    10. Have you ever driven over the posted speed limit? A: no [rehearsed lie]
    11. Am I wearing a watch? A: no [rehearsed lie]

    I have to wonder about the validity of a rehearsed lie actually showing a lie on a machine. After all, he is saying exactly what he was told to say.

  37. I hope this isn’t the case here in the forum where some would automatically dismiss the “Truthful” conclusion of the lie detector test because there are already so many pre-conceived notions as to the guilt of Zimmerman that it clouds judgement to be receptive to other possibilities.

    In viewing this for yourselves. Ask yourself: If the test result was he was lying, would you then declare “Zimmerman said nothing but lies all along, the machine proves it.” BUT if the machine indicated he was being truthful, would you then say “The machine is flawed, nobody can believe the results.”

    I think it is more than rational to question this, especially in regard to what I have said all along. Don’t jump to conclusions on this case until all the facts have been declared at trial. I agree it is a healthy learning environment for us here in the forum to debate the legal aspects of the case, but to come to a conclusion so early on can affect your investigation as to the conclusion.

    In criminal investigations, it is dangerous to assume from the beginning during anything short of a slam dunk, happening in front of you case that a particular person “must be the guilty one.” Even if you are the most fair and open minded investigator possible, human nature is such that you might subconsciously steer your investigation to support only factual information that supports your initial conclusion, while disregarding or dismissing other evidence to the contrary.

    I don’t know about the admissibility issue with the lie detector devide in Florida, in our state a defendant may take the polygraph and can admit it as evidence but the defendant has a right to nullify this result as being admissable. If the defendant chooses to supress the poly, the state is barred from even mentioning the test in any form at trial.

    I wonder if the test in Zimmerman’s case might be used as an impeachment of statements made of LEOs that declare they believed Zimmerman was not being forthcoming. Additionally, I wonder if there would be a due process violation if the state found a way to not premit the admission of the poly at trial but under Brady v. Maryland the poly results could be exculpable or mitigating in nature.

    Your thoughts?

  38. George Zimmerman Evidence Shows Extent To Which Police Doubted Self-Defense Claim

    A new trove of evidence released by the Florida state attorney prosecuting George Zimmerman for second-degree murder in the killing of Trayvon Martin reveals the extent to which law enforcement doubted Zimmerman’s early claims of self-defense.

    “His actions are inconsistent with those of a person who has stated he was in fear of another subject,” an investigator wrote in an early report on the Feb. 26 shooting. “Investigative findings show that George Michael Zimmerman had at least two opportunities to speak with Trayvon Benjamin Martin in order to defuse the circumstances,” and Zimmerman twice “failed to identify himself as a concerned resident or a neighborhood watch member.”

    The report also said that Martin’s and Zimmerman’s respective physical dimensions did not place Zimmerman at a disadvantage worthy of lethal force.

    “Investigative findings show the physical injuries displayed by [Zimmerman] are marginally consistent with a life-threatening violent episode described by him, during which neither a deadly weapon nor deadly force was deployed by Trayvon Martin,” the report said.

    The evidence released this afternoon includes a one-hour video recording of an interview between lead investigator Christopher Serino and Zimmerman at the Sanford, Fla., police headquarters, a pair of audio recordings between Serino and Zimmerman, and 29 pages of police reports and notes, including a handwritten narrative by Zimmerman recounting the events on the night of Feb. 26.

    Hours after the release of the new evidence, Serino, who had expressed doubts over Zimmerman’s story and suggested that charges be filed, was reassigned to the patrol division, according to the Associated Press. The reassignment came at his own request, AP reports.

  39. Manny: “So it doesnt matter what the headline says…the conclusion is the same in those whose minds are already made up and they are just looking for any data that supports their forgone conclusion and contrary data is just water off a ducks back”

    You overlook the class of people like me that wouldn’t believe the results of a polygraph no matter what the outcome, because they are total BS. Just say’n.

  40. The reports of the lie detector test are here:

    They are at the end of the file. The computer squiggles are printed for both the practice run and the “real” run and include the results where the question was asked twice. The questions that were asked follow the squiggles.

    In the “real” run it looks like he might have lied the first time he was asked if his name is George, the first time he was asked if the month is Feb. and the last 2 control questions where he was supposed to lie. It looks to me like the not-a-Green-wall that was supposed to be a lie wasn’t. But I have no experience interpreting this stuff.

  41. Oro Lee
    1, June 26, 2012 at 7:46 pm

    Definition: Thuggery – what happens to a young, black man who stands his ground

    1, June 26, 2012 at 7:57 pm

    Oro Lee
    while wearing a hoodie

    1, June 26, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    and talking on the phone

    I think we’ve gone from simple thuggery to aggravated thuggery

  42. There you guys go. Throwing rocks at each other after JT tried to quell the mudslinging.
    Two questions here: Did Zimmerman testify at his original bail hearing? I thought that only his wife did. Did Zimmerman’s wife get put in jail for lying at that hearing? Someone above said she was.

    A lie detector may be inadmissible. A person who hears a defendant make a statement can testify that he (the hearer) believed the defendant to be telling the truth.

    There will not be a juror in that county that will not hear that Zimmerman passed the lie detector tests. What is the prosecutor going to do at jury selection time? Not ask if they have preconceived notions of Zimmerman’s guilt? Not ask where they got their notion?

    If I was Zimmerman I would spend some money on billboards in that county.

    The state is in another trickbag. If they offer any statement that Z made then Z should have a right to counter with contemporaneous statements on the same subject.
    Why cant he testify and why cant he say in open court in front of the jury that he took the lie detector test and passed it? Why cant he call the lie detector grill instructor as a character witness?

    Does Florida allow depositions in criminal cases?

    This guy was lying on his back getting his head beaten into concrete when he shot the attacker. Not Guilty. The prosecutor who filed these charges needs to think about a career representing bankruptcy clients.

  43. doggie: Why cant he testify and why cant he say in open court in front of the jury that he took the lie detector test and passed it? Why”?

    Because George can never, ever take the stand.
    He is a pathological liar. He cannot help himself one bit.

  44. oh, and his injuries do not support this claim “This guy was lying on his back getting his head beaten into concrete when he shot the attacker. ”

    No, not at all. Zimmerman had superficial injuries, no black eyes to support a broken nose, no real skin injuries or bruising showing head being slammed into concrete. or even being punched at all.

    George did not like that Martin was holding him down, preventing him from reaching his gun while the cops were on the way. He could not possibly let the police see him in this position. His ego alone shot that teen to death. that is all, not mortal danger.

  45. Folks, Please read this (if it is too long, just read the last two paragraphs)

    I would also again re-iterate that it is unwise to draw conclusions based upon preconceptions. I know you have your beliefs here but remember that this is a serious affair involving many points of view with much evidence that is needed to be reviewed by both sides and untimately a trier of fact. No matter how diabolical some members of the public have scarlet lettered Z into being, he absolutely must have a clear and fair trial. All the poisoning of the well going about is not helping the justice in this case.

    For one, it puts pressure on the system to arrive at a particular outcome. While it at least it might be subtle or at worse convince someone in power to manipulate the system to achieve what the mob mentality desires. I would like to think the CJ system is above this kind of influence but individuals comprise this so it would be rather negligent to believe it completely does not. it also makes the case vulnerable to political grandstanding or advantage seeking from those trying to attain election or publicity from their support / advocacy / or persecution of one of the parties.

    I would say it is reasonable to conclude both the prosecution and the defense have not submitted all their evidence or strategy to the court of public opinion here. The time has not come yet for this to be revealed but it will in due time. From that I would caution against assuming that any one of us here on the outside has all the necessary evidence to support and absolute judgement either way.

    Additionally, in a global sense, I find it both rather odd and in some way unsettling to see that there has been such a strident rush to condemn an individual accused of a capital crime to a summary judgement: Especially coming from a group of us who are contributors to a legal forum that essentially professes itself to be advocates of individual liberty, civil rights, due process of law, and most importantly the removal of arbitrary and unilateral subjugation of the rights of individuals by the state. How rightful are we to conveniently abandon these principles when we seek to pillory another fellow citizen. Frankly this is rather disappointing to say the least.

  46. Darren Smith, I think it’s perfectly OK to have preconceived (after all, they were conceived after we read the news reports and this blog) notions of Zimmerman’s guilt or innocence. I also think that supporting our preconceived notions with whatever evidence has been made public is a good exercise. Here’s why:

    1. We’re not going to be jurors in this case;
    2. It’s important;
    3. We’re each bringing up things the other may not have thought of.

    Now, my reasoning for my firm belief in Zimmerman’s guilt is the same today as it was when I first read up about the case and listened to Zimmerman’s non-emergency police call. It is based on a few very firm very early points. Other information that has come in has confirmed it. Of course, had I initially “decided” that Zimmerman was probably innocent, I would have looked at all that evidence differently.


    The police decided (I believe) right there in the drizzle that night between 7 and 7:30 that George was going to be “held innocent” by THEM and they therefore looked at all the evidence that way.

    I’m allowed to do that; they’re NOT.

    So right now, I am determined to find more and more evidence supporting my position, and here I am saying it openly. Dershowitz, in my opinion, is not just a fool but a conscience-free public menace — and again, I have thought that for many years (although 20 years ago I was his fan). So I can change my opinion. But it takes a lot (and Dershowitz provided a lot) for me to change my opinion. In the Zimmerman case, for instance, NO amount of unscientific claptrap about how “credible” Zimmerman is would ever change my mind. The timing of the whining and squealing about his poor nosey-wosey and the failure to go to the hospital that night to see if his head had actually exploded is all I really need in the “George Zimmerman’s credibility” box. And in the “malice” box to see whether or not Corey over-charged the case (and I am NOT A FAN of Corey and consider HER a corrupt public official for different reasons), all I have and all I need are “the suspect disappeared into the darkness” and “the suspect once again emerged from the darkness” and “these a55holes always get away” and “f00king [whatevers]” and “sh1t, he ran.” That’s enough malice for me.

    So put me down as “holding preconceived notions and unwilling to wait for the outcome of a trial, as she should,” and I guess we can move forward.

    And I’m telling the truth on that one. You can give me a polygraph.

  47. I have said before that if there is a bias to be held, it should be towards a CHILD, unarmed, who had the complete right to be where he was, to NOT BE STALKED, JUDGED and CONVICTED by some wanna-be officer. Trayvon had the right to be scared and turn on George (If this even happened) at some point and defend HIMSELF. In my mind, you simply can not claim self-defense and hope to have any credibility when you are willing to go after someone with a preconceived predatory and discriminatory mindset that has been pretty well-established by the existing evidence, be completely wrong in your judgment about any criminal intent, be told NOT to pursue, put the other in a position of having to defend himself, and then cry, “Oops, my bad, but now *I* had to KILL to defend myself.” Does not work for me.

    And Jeff from up above: Would love to see who you are. Probably pretty pathetic, based on your statement.

  48. Darren: you say ” Don’t jump to conclusions on this case until all the facts have been declared at trial.”

    Well, that is exactly what the Sanford Police Department did when they ‘helped’ George take this little farce of a ‘test’ so they could send him home to nurse his little scrapes on his noggin.

    The police decided to protect George, for whatever reason, to not charge him- to say that he was clear under SYG with NO TRIAL whatsoever. Who was jumping to conclusions?

    Certainly not the people who are willing to explore the fact that there is only one survivor of Zimmermans actions that night.
    And for that reason we are only getting one side of the story, so why should we believe anything that is not supported by the physical evidence or the timeline or the superficial injuries sustained by this armed man who shot a teen on a dark night?
    Why should we take George at his word like the Sanford PD? It seems to me that most Americans do not like even the idea that the police can be the judge & jury & executioner all in one.

  49. Pollyannna, I do not think George ‘had’ to shoot Trayvon that night. He did not ‘have’ to follow him, he did not have to do anything at all about Martin. That is what is so frustrating about Zimmermans actions. Nothing needed to be done about Martin.

    If George had just waited one more minute, if he had just stopped fighting with Martin for one minute, if he had said anything to Trayvon to clear up the fighting situation, the police would have arrived and -while there may have been those small scrapes and bumps,- Martin would have lived.

    So why did Zimmerman shoot Martin? He could not stand the fact that Martin would be the one holding him until the police came. Why didn’t George tell Trayvon the police were coming?

  50. to pick up on Malisha’s polygraph.

    When I visited my best girl friend in 1981 she had recently undergone a test with such a lie detector. The background was that in the place where she worked a huge amount of money prepared for being taken to the bank had disappeared. Nine people were tested, since theoretically they had access to the area. All passed the test, among them the real culprit.

    The thief only made one tiny mistake and was arrested a couple of days after he had passed the test.

    I thought about that when I watched the test, and compared the procedure as B had told me about in my mind to what I could watch on the video. What I wondered about was, he only had to answer really simple questions with no or yes, and the questions were absolutely unburdened emotionally. I tell you any time that my wall is actually yellow if you say it is green and feel not very uncomfortable about it, since after all I do not know what special technique the producer of the color used to make me perceive it as yellow.

    I am very, very close to what Mike wrote above.

    Video Interview by CVSA Expert on February 27, the interview took place on 27th, was it before or after he was told whom he killed? The Serino interviews took place on February 29. On the above date, one can surely assume that Zimmerman still thought I simply killed “suspect”, someone who intended to or had earlier already committed a burglary, he only cleaned up his neighborhood, so to speak.

    In this context it is highly interesting, that George Zimmerman obviously assumed during all his interviews that the black male with the bomber hat, he had watched, and whom he followed to Frank Taaffe’s house on 02/02/12 was actually arrested 10 days later. If that is indeed the case, SPD either prefers to keep us in the dark, or is so far holding back information about another burglary committed by this guy. Emmanuel Burgess was indeed arrested only one day after he committed a burglary in Tatjana V. Demicis’ house on 2/06/12. But the people calling 911 weren’t Georgie’s neighborhood watchers–if they exist at all, that is–nor generally the RTL community, but were two roofers from outside the community. One of them had his bicycle stolen a day earlier too, so he had a certain interest in reporting to police. I find it hard to believe they informed Zimmerman and compared descriptions with him.

    Something new we learnt, Frank Taaffe the ardent Zimmerman supporter always leaves door and windows open when he leaves, much to Zimmerman’s despair.😉 That did really surprise me.

  51. Taafe and Zimmerman were, and probably still are, in their “DEFEND DEFEND DEFEND” world and they justify all their defensiveness. But we know that “the best defense is a good offense” and what happened on 2/26/2012 was that Zimmerman defended himself from Trayvon TO THE DEATH when he had no reason to even begin “defending” himself from someone who clearly was “run[ning]” and who was an “a55hole get[ting] away.” This, obviously, makes THEM think that what happened that night was perfectly all right. The issue is simply that our society considers it a crime.

  52. I think he was MAD AS HELL because he wasn’t getting total control of the situation and that was what dominated his motivations and his actions

    Malisha, that’s obviously a topic you are much more experienced in than me. But you realize it is easy to be taken in by his tiny voice?

    I am really slightly puzzled by the peculiar parallels to the subjects that had most of my attention during the past decade. Maybe they strike me since I have built up synaptic connections in this context. One is double standards disguised as impartiality, especially when dressed up as “balance”.

    Slightly before I went over the top somewhere else, you know where, there was this “balancing effort”:

    Both Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman were ultimately weaklings, Isn’t that interesting given what we know?

    I mediated much about journalism and objectivity with it’s ally balance in the 911 universe. But interesting is the extend to which the well-adapted and thus self-proclaimed “righteous” or “realist” have absorbed the idea as if it was an original part of their selves. Problem is it always shows traces that hint strongly beyond impartiality towards double standard, that never openly show us their face. (special interests?)

    Somehow I have a real problem to believe that Trayvon Martin was a weakling, in the sense Zimmerman is, a weakling with a gun, but obviously in his own special way Tony smells the same thing, or did he change his mind?

  53. Darren,

    Wise words. A nit: A capital crime is one where the punishment is death, I think aggravated 1st degree murder. 2nd degree murder is a long time in jail.

    I wouldn’t take a lie detector test but if I did I’d take a valium or one of those drugs that keep you calm George seemed to be.

  54. I do not think Trayvon Martin was a ‘weakling’, he was just a young very gangly teen who had grown really very, very fast physically, a weird age in a rapidly changing body. The human brain is not complete until the mid 20’s.

    George we know has real problems with his brain or he would not have been prescribed a highly addictive Meth-amphetamine pill that actually is a combination of two different types of speed, and a tranquilizer that is one of the most powerful of the pharmaceuticals as a sleeping pill to counter the effects of his speed cocktail.

    Anger management and assault are absolutely on the Zimmerman record, as is bullying so bad it led to a the loss of a job.

    As Sling said, George is in the ‘fight’ mode while Trayvon is in the ‘flight’ mode. Who is the danger here?

    The big lie from George is that Trayvon stalked and attacked poor George! That is purely projection, blaming the victim for what George himself was doing that night.


    “Serino’s report expressed strong skepticism of Zimmerman’s account of the shooting, describing Zimmerman’s injuries as “marginally consistent with a life threatening violent encounter.”
    The detective also questioned Zimmerman’s account of being afraid of Martin, who was 17 and unarmed when he was killed on Feb. 26.”

    And: “One of George Zimmerman’s former colleagues at CarMax, where he worked in 2008, complained formally about the man who killed Florida teen Trayvon Martin, alleging serial hazing that lasted for months and included pranks and ethnic jokes.
    When the salesman complained to management, Zimmerman denied the harassment.
    “The guy was so convincing when he was confronted by management to the point where I doubted my own self. I would not be surprised if he got away with it [Martin murder accusation].”

    “He’s got, like you say, a good poker face. Great poker face,” said the colleague. “That pretty much summarizes this guy’s personality. Great poker face.”

    The employee, who is an Arab-American, worked part time at the used car retailership during 2008, and rose quickly to become one of the company’s top salesmen, despite the hazing, he says.
    “These are some of the bully activities I have been facing that led me to be concerned about my work environment,” he wrote in the one page complaint.
    The complaint accused Zimmerman of pressuring him to split deals with him (!, this is criminal behavior, imho) , of repeatedly “impersonating me in a terrorist character,” and mocked him constantly to earn the laughs of fellow workers.

    In the letter, the colleague states, “Since I started working in CarMax Sanford, George has been dealing with me in an unprofessional manner and have mastered the art of emerging as the nice guy to others in order to make me look like the unsocial type and out of place.”

    Yes, this is our George. Pathological liar who can make himself look good.

  56. I wonder if Darren thinks the thin blue line should still apply to George even when he was not an official policeman, just an understudy.

  57. George went to a psychologist (could be psychiatrist???) before going in for the voice stress test. That’s when/where it “really hit” that he had killed someone. ????? That’s about seven WTF’s right there!

    OK, when George was first standing there having killed someone, all he was thinking about was “how do I present this so it goes my way?” and he said, “I was screaming for help but nobody would help.”

    From then on, ALL his protestations were about HIM and how he wanted to be seen and how he wanted his acts interpreted.

    Massive projection, “that Trayvon stalked and attacked poor George,” is the stuff of which a sociopath makes the world-view. Revisionist history, massive projection, and immediate belief in one’s own versions of reality. Not only does George believe what he has been saying, by now, but he regards as “liars” any story promulgated or supported by anyone ELSE.

    I once asked a psychiatrist whether a certain party (not connected with this case — long ago) actually believed what he said. The shrink said: “Who CARES?”


    Two dozen states reportedly now allow citizens to stand their ground even outside their home. The specifics vary by state, but generally justify a person not retreating and using deadly force when a threat is perceived.

    As in Florida, Texas law includes public areas, “if a person has a right to be present at a location where force is used.”

    But veteran attorney Andy Drumheller told Yahoo News that the Houston jury appeared to draw a line with Rodriguez leaving his home and going down the street.

    “The law is not designed to create this bubble that you can carry with you everywhere you go,” said Drumheller, a former prosecutor now practicing criminal defense in Houston. “The jury’s verdict is a cautionary statement on the limits of this defense.”

  59. Rodriguez, who told police he suspected the men were drunk, tells the 911 operator that he’s scared and will defend himself, if needed.
    “I don’t want to do this, and it all started over them playing their music real loud … it’s about to get out of hand, Sir. Please help me. ”
    Seconds later, he says, “I’m standing my ground here, now these people are going to try and kill me.”
    The video is dark when Danaher and two other men apparently lunged toward him, laughing loudly. Rodriguez fired his gun, killing Danaher and injuring two others.
    In lobbying jurors for a lenient sentence, defense attorney Bill Stradley blamed the tragedy on his client’s misunderstanding of the state’s “stand your ground” law. Something he predicts will happen with other Texas gun owners in the future.
    “And they will find themselves, like Raul Rodriguez, charged with murder,” said Stradley, according to the Houston Chronicle.
    “Raul believed he had a right to be where he was. But he had two seconds to make that call, to pull that trigger.”

    Sounds like George, I didn’t remember I had my gun until my life was in dire jeopardy. yea sure George, you went looking for that confrontation just like this guy.

  60. Hi Malisha! I’ve been away for awhile. However, I had a chance to watch the WESH-TV video (on ABC News) of GZ and Det. Chris Serino (SPD) at the scene (day after incident) of the crime and it was VERY revealing. There was a number of things that just filled in the blanks on this. I hope you get a chance to view it.

    1. His so-called injuries that where looked at by his GP earlier that day where outwardly exaggerated by blood on the bridge of his nose and butterfly bandages on the back of his head. No Dr. would let a trauma patient leave his office like that. The day before his injuries where not that apparent in the SPD video. EMT’s testified to SPD that they cleaned him up at the scene. In any case no black eyes or swellings or lumps to the back of the head. Butterfly bandages are not appropriate for such wounds.

    2. His actions, body language, and comments on video tape where apparently deceptive. He made comments that did not jibe with the SPD telephone audio recordings. He claimed he couldn’t remember a street when he lived at the complex 3 years (and was allegedly a watch captain) and there was only THREE streets in the entire complex. Also his sister-in-law lived on the actual street he started the scenario (Twin Trees) and yet he couldn’t remember the name of that street.

    3. After viewing the 7/11 Store security video tapes and this video you can clearly see that Trayvon’s body type did NOT have an advantage over GZ’s. Det. Serino made note of this too.

    4. When GZ goes onto describe the alleged altercation with TM, his body language starts to telegraph deception. He also can’t remember the exact location (from only 24 hours earlier). He changes his story about the exact location of his Silver Honda Ridgeline (SUV) on Twin Trees. He invents colorful metaphors allegedly from Trayvon’s mouth during the attack to make his story sound more plausible to the detectives.

    5. He confuses the story about who came out to help him even calling one of them a MAN when it was clearly two women with a flashlight. He also goes on to say no one was helping him and he was screaming for help. The 3 eyewitness where clearly intervening and trying to help but his GUN made it difficult for them to approach to closely. Everyone at the complex knew he was ALWAYS armed. That was the topic at the last homeowner’s association meeting.

    6. He talks about how his jacket gets hiked up in the altercation and how TM sees GZ’s pistol on his right side. Instead of him identifying himself to TM or trying to fight or punch TM back, GZ claims TM reached for the gun while straddling him. The eyewitnesses do not support this scenario. He goes on to say GZ (him) grabbed the gun before TM did and fired point blank into TM’s chest. If that were true then there would be a powder burn son TM’s chest. Also GZ says TM landed face down and GZ got on his back to spread his hands out. Except this flies in the face of ballistics, logic, and eyewitness testimony.

    All in all SPD detectives say that GZ had at least two times to identify himself as a concerned resident or at least a wannabe neighborhood watch member – which could have deflated the situation. But he never did. Why? This is a major reason why Det. Serino isn’t buying any of GZ’s story. Neither is FBI. Something really stinks about GZ’s story and he has demonstrated on many occasions that deception (and extreme anger) is part of his persona.
    To all you wannabe criminologists It’s not called a LIE DETECTOR as there is no such thing. It is called a POLYGRAPH or “Poly” for short. (Some call it ‘the box’ too). As in VSA (voice stress analysis) technology (which the Israelis M.I.C. excel at – Google TRUSTER), they look for signs of physiological STRESS in your answers. By looking at that, a TRAINED analyst can make assumptions about whether you are being completely honest about something.

    There is a NEWER gadget out there that examines electroencephalographic signals to determine what you may or may not be thinking about when being examined. I think it was nicknamed SQUID at one time. But not sure what it’s really called today. You have to wear a headpiece and the examiner watches a laptop screen while asking questions or showing you pictures. It seems there is no apparent way to beat this box yet. You can imagine who uses such high-technology in USA.

    I have a couple of these toys (Truster and the EEG gadget toy made by Mattel -Radicii – MIND FLEX ). I do love my toys…

  61. George get special dispensation from the judge he lied to about his finances:

    Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester has granted George Zimmerman’s request to appear in civilian clothes and without shackles during his bond hearing tomorrow.

    STORY: He Wants What? Zimmerman’s Odd Request Before Bond Hearing

    Zimmerman’s defense attorney Mark O’Mara said yesterday:

    “The manner in which Mr. Zimmerman is portrayed by the media will have a tremendous impact on his ability to receive a fair trial.”

    Before Zimmerman’s last bail hearing April 20, O’Mara made the same request. Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester Jr. agreed to let Zimmerman wear street clothes instead of a Seminole County Jail jumpsuit, but insisted that he be in chains.

    Zimmerman appeared in a blue suit in his last bond hearing with his hands cuffed to a chain around his waist and his ankles shackled.

    In his motion, O’Mara wrote that at Friday’s hearing, the chains are unnecessary and pointed out that Zimmerman has twice surrendered to authorities when he knew he was going to jail.

    Read more:

    Tell me, if Zimmermans father was not a Magistrate, would any of these requests be granted? No chains? In civies?

  62. sonofthunderboanerges

    “Also GZ says TM landed face down and GZ got on his back to spread his hands out. Except this flies in the face of ballistics, logic, and eyewitness testimony.”

    Zimmerman said he spread Martin’s hand apart.
    Ayala’s police report says Martin was face down with his hand UNDER him. Smith only reported about Zimmerman, he didn’t go to Martin at all.

  63. I wrote a long thingy, which went down the bottomless.

    Summary: George did it. Good liar. Sentence? Not guilty. Let him go free and look over his shoulder the rest of his life.
    My verdict: Guilty. Sentence: As many years Martin could have been expected to live in a non-SYG state. Without drugs to enjoy.

    We’re all weaklings, that is why the state was given police powers, to protect the weak.

  64. @SHANO – Yes Robert J. Zimmerman Sr. was a Virginia Supreme Court Magistrate. The operative word is WAS. However, he still has a lot of clout in Florida somehow. You may be right as if you look like Trayvon Martin and were in court in a orange jumpsuit I guarantee you he would REMAIN in that jumpsuit. However, you’d probably have a PD and not O’Mara who is a pretty powerful criminal defense atty in that neck of the woods. I believe GZ used him in his case where he attacked a SPD cop and walked Scott-free on that (???).

    @bettykath – I’m only going by what I THINK I heard GZ say in the video. If he shot him point blank in the chest from a supine position and TM was on GZ’s chest, logic would dictate that TM would be thrust forward and backward into a supine position and not as GZ described as face down. Also GZ claimed that TM’s last words where: “You got me!”. Sounds all a bit made up to me. As the eyewitnesses say they heard and saw a TOTALLY different scenario then what GZ describes in the video.

    To me I believe that GZ is a pathological liar not unlike how Malisha described him as a sociopathic personality. I would say psychopathic but since he did murder someone I think she may be right. Yes MURDER as GZ’s past behavior with reactionary violent behavior toward others and his indifference to human life coupled with his documented racist behavior I’d go as far as to say he committed murder that night.

    I think Malisha is right on the money with GZ’s anger management issues. Eyewitnesses tell a different story and it sounds like he shot TM out of anger not self-defense as he claims. In any event he KNEW he was armed and could easily take TM in one punch. He had two opportunities to identify himself and defuse the issue but he choose to let his out of control anger get the best of him. I think his comments to SPD 911 operator pretty much sums up his building racist-oriented angst toward TM that night.

    Not only did he violate Mr. Martin’s Civil Rights he took his American right to liberty and life. That $100,000 should have gone to Mr. Martin’s fund not GZ’s. Just shows how many racists there are in USA and their willingness to financially support another racist just like themselves.

  65. @idealist707- Stand Your Ground is not tantamount to “police powers”. What where you trying to say there? No US citizen ever has such powers unless sworn in by a duly authorized law enforcement official, and only then usually as an unarmed “peace officer”. SYG can NOT be used by GZ in this scenario as there was NOTHING TM was doing that was life threatening to GZ. Even the 1st responding EMT’s said that the can of ice-tea was INSIDE TM’s pocket (they removed it and put it next to him). GZ said he opened TM’s hand but didn’t say what he found (cellphone he was talking to girlfriend DeeDee on?). The Skittles were obviously in his pocket too as it was raining. So how was a sucker-punch to the nose and a two head bangs to the pavement life-threatening? GZ refused to go to the ER too. Where was TM’s weapon (required under SYG)? A cellphone is not a weapon. Doesn’t even look like one.

  66. Hey there, Sonofthunder, good to hear from you.

    About the voice-stress test — ridiculous. Police use it when they want to give a guy a “walk” but they’re not willing to try polygraph even, because it could go wrong. The interview with the VSA machine shows Zimmerman volunteering to the friendly “greenwalls” tester guy that HE FORGOT HE WAS ARMED UNTIL JUST BEFORE TRAYVON TRIED TO GRAB HIS GUN TO SHOOT HIM WITH!!

    That lie, among all the lies, is the one that most shocked me. And the voice stress guy did not include that in the questions to ask him — huh? I mean, go ahead and make that one: Huh?????????????????????????

    So, here’s my take on this:

    George believed at first that any damn stupid story he told would get him a walk with the cops.

    George believed a little later that any damn stupid story he told five or six times over would get him a walk with the cops.

    George’s beliefs were correct until there was a giant hullaballoo going.

    Now, some of those “any damn stupid stories” are coming back to bite him.

    Yeah. Cool. Not as cool as if George hadn’t decided to hunt down and kill Trayvon Martin, of course, but under the circumstances…


    Notice the several contradictions he makes and his body language. I know if you run VSA on his voice you will detect deception on his part. Google: “download free voice stress analysis” and “body language analysis”.

  68. sonofthunder,

    Think, am sure, you misunderstood my brief words.
    To paraphrase myself: Police powers were given to LEO in order to protect weak people (and remove the need for using deadly force to defend yourself). Police power is code for uining violence, even deadly violence. The existence or use of SYG wss not included in this Venn diegram set as Malisha might, if i am correct, point out. Clearer now I nope.

  69. idealist707,
    OK duly corrected. However, LEO in USA was arguably created to protect the interest of commercialism and industrialism (and still does) not primarily it’s citizens despite the mottos on the side of police cars “To Protect and Serve”. The question is “who”?

    Case in point bringing LAW to the SW in 19th century was primarily in the interest of the railroad industry. Today corporation’s interest (real estate, commercial, industrial, etc.) seems to be the primary focus of our LEO not the “people”. We seem to be secondary to commercialism.

    The number one, self-admitted, focus of our global national security interests among our intelligence communities is the protection of US corporate interests worldwide. IOW they spy on foreign companies and feed intel back to corporate America.

    As can be seen in George Zimmerman’s case, hidden power (i.e. his dad’s personal networking with corporate, political, and LEO interests) are allowing GZ to get more deference than someone that looks like Trayvon Martin. You see how some people feel TM’s (typical American citizen) civil rights were secondary to more powerful interests. I truly hope the state of Florida makes a HUGE example of GZ and give him the maximum due diligence he deserves.

  70. Shano,
    I read your Christian Science Monitor article about GZ’s bond hearing. They don’t put a date on it, but judging from the comments section I think this is 2 months old. Therefore this may be the 1st bond hearing that the judge later found out that GZ had a lot of unreported money from his website campaign. I think in the case of a $150,000 bond you only have to put up 10% – that’s only $15,000 – but you get most if not all of it back when you show up for your trial. But then it was discovered that GZ had at least $100,000 in cash assets infuriating the judge. So now I think all bond was revoked and he has to chill his heels in Seminole County solitaire confinement for about a year until his trial.I could be wrong…

  71. Here is George Zimmerman’s VSA session with SPD just 24 hours after murdering Trayvon Martin. It’s over 1 hour long. But worth watching. Turn your volume up as he says some pretty interesting things:

  72. Has anyone heard that there may have been THREE people at the kill zone where Trayvon was killed by George Zimmerman on 26-Feb-2012? That would be George, Trayvon and a UNSUB (unidentified subject)? SPD forensic DNA describes two DNA samples found on GZ’s gun grip, holster, and shirt. Trayvon was pretty much ruled out as one of the DNA contributors. However, an eyewitness claims she saw a man on top of someone in a WHITE shirt just before the shot rang out. She knows this is odd as she said “I understand that none of the known people in the case had a white shirt on…”. Could it be that George had a partner that he is still protecting? Could it have been Frank Taaffe who lives near the kill zone and is his old neighborhood watch partner? And why is Frank now protecting George on nationwide TV? Because if he didn’t he might be implicated in the murder too?

    Here’s Frank Taaffe. Nice white shirt Frank:

  73. I heard the 3 person bit. I think it’s a good question to put to Z. A lot more happened in the path area than what he said. In the walk-thru he doesn’t go down the pathway at all, just off the side walk a bit by the T. That can’t be right by the position of the body and Z’s own words. I notice that in the conversations with Serino, whenever difficult questions were asked, Z ignored the question altogether or he “honestly do[es]n’t remember.” I wish Serino had followed up on those questions.

    So far, based on the evidence at hand, everyone has been pretty nice to Z. Someone needs to push him hard on what actually happened down that pathway. but I suspect O’Mara won’t let that happen. The opportunity was while Z was cooperating.

  74. I’ve been very suspicious of Taaffe since March.
    I even think I have said so several times.
    Leander has pointed out that the story of the guy who “perpetrated my house” being apprehended by George is untrue; the roofers pointed him out. But Taaffe saying George was patrolling to keep the neighborhood safe is another example of their self-appointed KKK-like rights of “protection.”

  75. Shano, the phone records are among the things they would NOT release.

    I’m betting George called Frank Taaffe. You?

  76. Well when you watch the video you see GZ tells Det. Serino that he first encounters Trayvon that night at a particular address at 1460 Retreat View Circle. That’s Frank Taaffe’s house. Being it was around 6-7PM (dinner time) do you think Frank wasn’t looking out the window or otherwise totally aware of someone of the darker persuasion near his recently burglarized home and his cruising buddy George is outside in his silver Honda Ridgeline? Could GZ have blown the horn and said “Hey Frank! Did you see that guy?” Frank: “Yeah TugBoat* I did… follow him and I’ll follow on foot too. You got your Kel-Tec* buddy?” George:”Yeah don’t you know I always carry it everywhere? Never leave home without it (laughter).”.

    *TugBoat is GZ’s nickname and is depicted in his MySpace moniker “DatNiggyTB”. The TB standing for TugBoat.

    *Kel-Tec is George Zimmerman’s 9mm semi-automatic pistol.

    I think Frank needs a VSA test (from anyone including news media) and see if he is being deceptive too. Also if SPD or State asks for a DNA sample from Frank they can put him at the scene of the crime. Since there is now an official UNSUB* at the scene via unknown DNA on the Kel-Tec grip and holster I think its a good next move. Frank has motive and opportunity at being an accessory to the crime. I’m sure the female eyewitness could be pressed into picking Frank out of a lineup as the guy in the white shirt standing over Trayvon (or over GZ… but why GZ?) before the fatal shot.

    *UNSUB: unidentified subject

    Also most neighborhood watch teams use FRS/GMRS walkie-talkies to coordinate their operations because they are cheap, unlicensed, and have good range of over a mile or more. Could Frank and George have a pair of them? Could they have called each other on them that night? Fortunately kids use them too (parents buy them for Xmas). Maybe some neighborhood kids where monitoring their FRS’s that night and heard just such a transmission?

  77. I found this posting from a man who says he is Frank Taaffe’s son. It sounds convincing and plausible:

    Vincent Taaffe
    “Frank Taaffe is my father who I have disowned. He has been physically mentally and verbally abusive my whole life. He is a sick and narcissistic individual who told me, his own son, he would blow my brains out and cut my balls off. He even told his daughter a US Marine who is about to deploy overseas that he hope she dies in war. He has been disowned by his entire family. He is an extremely mentally unstable individual with an alcohol addiction problem and is on psychiatric medications. He is a self proclaimed radiate who constantly told me growing up about his hatred of blacks. Nothing nothing he says should be of any credit because he is a very sick and angry individual who’s sole purpose in this is nothing more than self promotion because he has lost everything due to his own poor choices and chooses to make himself a victim.”

  78. Sonofthunder, where HAVE YOU BEEN, you struck GOLD, man!

    I don’t know how the Vincent Taaffe thing could be verified, but it sure sounds right to me. Taaffe is a name reminiscent of the South African “Afrikaaners” who were the white settlers who left other places (in Europe) because they weren’t getting into the upper classes so readily there, and they realized that in a Black African country they could come in and do pretty much whatever they wanted. I’m just guessing here. It sounds Afrikaaner to me. His conduct looks Afrikaaner to me, too. THey all carry guns and show off their killingness. THey also blame all their hostility on the bad behavior of the Blacks. Quite a bunch! Free-wheeling with the indignant self-aggrandizing statements about who, among the darker peoples, are thugs and thieves just looking to rob whites.

    Ugh what a bunch!

  79. sonofthunder, If that is true, or even if it isn’t, the investigators should follow up with Taafe. A “sympathetic” investigator should be able to get him to reveal bigotry. If he’s as unbalanced as his “son” says, it also should be fairly easy to get him to either confide his complicity if he has any or to get him to lose his cool to admit same.

  80. FYI – CAVEAT: The following is NOT special knowledge of the case and is mostly IMO (in my opinion) or just conjecture:
    Malisha & BettyKath – I’m relatively sure Vincent is legit. And as Malisha can tell you I have the resources to verify (vet) Vincent if I am so inclined (wink/wink). However, SPD has been dragging it’s collective feet in prosecuting this case. SPD Detective Chris Serino is absolutely livid at the police chief’s (Bill Lee & Richard Myers) lack of due diligence here. Everyone is sort of wink wink nod nod about what really happened here. It’s just a very touchy situation on how to proceed on Frank and George because daddy (Judge Zimmerman) has too many friends in high places. Now the judge (Kenneth Lester Jr.) is pretty much convinced that GZ (and his wife) is a “sack o’ sh&&” Guess who they got to decode their little code-speak about the $100,000 bucks at the prison phone system? Yup… USAG Eric Holder.

    I think the FBI (SACSteven Ibison) wants to take a wait and see attitude and see where the State Prosecutor (Angela Corey) is going with this case. She has a good track record but someone with a lot of clout may take the wind out of her sails too (or not). Everything hangs on the eye/ear witness testimonies. The investigators are trying to collect more witnesses but many are reluctant or not forthcoming. FBI is trying to track done gun dealers, gun ranges, and PI’s. They discovered that Khaled Akkawi at “Shoot Straight” in Casselberry FL sold him the Kel-Tek 9mm pistol and ammo that killed TM. They also know that people have cell phone videos, and other electronic intercepts of that night. They suspect more than 3 to 4 people actually saw what really happened.There appears to be 21 of them but their names are being kept secret. It looks like GZ’s story is full of holes and TOTALLY bogus.

    IMO high-technology could break this case. IMO all Eric Holder has to do now (if asked) is request the NRO to pull DoD NROL-66 satellite photos of those coordinates on 26-Feb as they have done this before for DoJ on special civilian criminal cases. Even though it was raining a bit they can still resolve with infrared or microwave imagery how many people where at the scene of the crime. If it’s more than just two people then you have an “aha!” moment.

    Someone needs to interrogate Mr. Taaffe as to his whereabouts on 26-Feb around 6-7:30 PM. They also need to take a DNA sample and compare it to the unsub DNA sample on GZ’s Kel-Tek pistol’s grip. In my mind I see Mr. Taaffe pulling the trigger alone NOT GZ. There was very little gun residue on GZ’s shirt and jacket’s cuff for him to be the shooter. But I could be wrong as I’m only guessing here.

    The male witness to the north side of the walkway (Tim aka “John”) said he saw more than two people – I think. A woman said she saw a man with a white shirt. The 2 women across from Tim said they had a flashlight and saw the whole thing. But SPD is discounting their testimony as being incorrect. Why? The 2 women claim TM was executed not shot in self-defense. They don’t say how many people they saw but that will come out in the trial I guess.

    In my analysis it would behoove Mark O’Mara to assist law enforcement in prosecuting Frank Taaffe as the openly racist shooter to get the spotlight off of his client GZ. It seems the FBI is finding many comments originating from GZ only showing racism against Mexican-Americans on the Internet and helping African-Americans (etc). However, Frank is a better suspect in this case IMHO. Don’t get me wrong… IF Frank did it GZ STILL needs to do heavy time too.Frank may deserve a much harsher sentence if not Capital Punishment.

    I would revoke Frank’s passport if I were the USAG – today!
    Sources: Open-Source data mining.

  81. Frank Taaffe undoubtedly has several passports. One of them is in his drawer.

    He left his doors unlocked? He wanted someone to come in and get shot.

    Remember him saying that George Zimmerman was just “fed up”? Fed up about what? About not getting his kill? Trayvon Martin had nothing to do with anything that “fed” George Z and Frank Taaffe “up.”

    It’s strange to me, also, that Taaffe gave a “re-enactment” to the media right after the event, while George was in hiding. Sounds pretty sure of himself about what happened.

  82. Sonofthunder, can you direct me to the 1 hour + 11 minute video of George taking the “voice stress test” on 2/27/2012. I listened to it once but now have an additional question I want to figure out by listening again. Thanks.

  83. Taaffe, when interviewed, early on, mentioned that when he spoke with Zimmerman while Zimmerman was in hiding, Zimmerman again expressed condolences for this loss of his (Taaffe’s) son.

    Anybody know what that’s about?

  84. I went back and read the initial article, and this jumped out at me in a different way than it had when I first read it:

    “A new report shows that the day after killing Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman passed a police lie detector test. He registered truthful in stating that he was afraid for his life before shooting the teen. The report does not materially affect the trial since such tests are not admissible but may explain the the resistance of local officials to bring the case. It also further supports the view, again, that Angela Corey overcharged the case.”

    Wow, I couldn’t disagree more with the conclusions reached so quickly here.

    1. The report does not show that Z passed a police lie detector test. The test was a voice stress analysis — and liars who do not feel stress when they lie can pass it easily. ALso, the questions were designed to keep George from feeling stressed. ALSO this took place the day AFTER the killing, and George had been to his psychologist’s office that afternoon, and was never even given a drug test before administering the voice stress test.

    2. “He registered as truthful in stating that he was afraid for his life before shooting the teen.” Wrong. He registered that when he said he was afraid for his life, he felt NO STRESS. Of course he felt no stress! He expected that he had already been believed, he would be believed, and that was the perfect story to tell. Stress free situation.

    3. The report…may explain the resistance of local officials to bring the case.” NO NO NO. The test was given to George AFTER the decision had been made to accept HIS version, AFTER they let him go, AFTER they gave him to understand he was going to be given a “free pass” for the “shoot.” The resistance of the local officials, in fact, explain the TEST, not vice versa. The officials were putting together a little package to bolster their corrupt decision to let this particular teen-killing go unpunished.

    4. “It also further supports the view, again, that Angela Corey overcharged the case.” No again. George’s own words, supported by George, believed by George even, and accepted by George and recited by George without stress, cannot support the view that his own version is a damn lie, or a mentally ill misunderstanding of everything, even his own behavior, etc. Angela Corey (whom I do not like but I think it’s hilarious to see her and Dershowitz publicly hating each other when I hate them both!) charged Z based on the physical evidence, the statements of witnesses who are much more credible than Z, and common sense. A terrorized weenie doesn’t get out of his car to confront someone he already identified as a possible drug-user criminal possibly armed “up to no good” a55hole who was trying to get away. Does not compute.

    Further piece of evidence: George apparently suffers from IBS, irritable bowel syndrome. So he wouldn’t want to get out of the car in case, while he was out there, the fright of seeing this criminal might cause him to lose bowel control so that when the police arrived he had shat himself; that would be embarrassing, wouldn’t it?


    George has no stress in his voice when he’s telling the story HE LIKES TO HEAR. Tell him, ‘Hey man, that doesn’t fit with the physical evidence, explain that for me, OK?” and you will hear stress in his voice.

  85. BettyKath, thanks so much for providing this link. I listened to the whole thing again. A few comments.

    1. As George is waiting, he chats with the female investigator. He asks her, “Have YOU ever had to shoot somebody?” She says no. He comments that her not having to shoot anybody was good, and that, “I wouldn’t question your authority.” To George, having to shoot somebody has to do with them QUESTIONING YOUR AUTHORITY. He doesn’t say, “Wow, I’m glad you never had to shoot anybody. That means you were never put in fear for your life.” It was about questioning AUTHORITY that makes you “have to shoot somebody.”


    2. George says that when the police arrived, he asked if he could call his wife and the police said no, so George asked a bystander to call his wife for him. Hmmmmm. No mention in the police report filed by Ayala of either this request or the call by this bystander.

    3. George tells the female investigator that the cops spoke with each other, after the incident, as to whether to take George to the hospital first or to question him first, and THEY DECIDED to question him first and take him to the hospital later. The police, on the other hand, say that they were ordering two ambulances but GEORGE told them he didn’t want the ambulance so they canceled the second one.

    4. THEN a very interesting little conversation, initiated by George, with the female investigator.

    G: Were you an investigator when you worked that detail [some party]?

    FI: Yeah

    G: Did Chief Lee put that e-mail in your file?

    FI: [says she doesn’t remember seeing any e-mail.]

    G: He said he was going to.

    FI: I don’t remember. What did it say?

    G: That you went above and beyond the call of duty. That you held onto those flyers, [inaudible]

    FI: I don’t [inaudible]

    G: He said he was going to ..[inaudible] take care of [inaudible] —

    FI: It was a fun party. [Inaudble] good Spanish food–

    G: [Inaudible] Middle Eastern —

    FI: [agrees it was Middle Eastern, comments again it was a good party] —

    SOOOOOO, George is reminding her (a) they have worked a party together; and (b) he wrote a nice e-mail complimenting her and (c) Chief Lee told him that he would put it into her file —

    5. Then the VSA examiner comes in. He says he heard that GEORGE HAS REQUESTED the VSA test. George agrees. THe VSA guy says, “I am going to grant your wish.” SERINO did not tell George he had to come down and take the VSA test; George requested it.

    6. George misrepresents what happened on the non-emergency call (hereinafter referred to as the NE Call). He says that he spotted the guy, who didn’t look like “a hardcore physical” trainer who was running in the rain. So why wasn’t he in a hurry to get out of the rain? This raises George’s suspicions. So George drives past him and “lost visual contact.” He claims the cops asked him to “get somewhere” where he could see the guy. [No they didn’t.] So he drove adjacent to the club house. He claimed the cops asked him what street he was on and he didn’t know and they said, “we need to know.” No they didn’t. He claims they said, “We need to know what house you’re at,” but they didn’t. THEN he claims that Martin “walked around my car.” He says then Trayvon disappeared and the cops said, “We need to know what exact address you’re at,” but they didn’t. George says “in the heat of the moment I think I gave them my home address.” What HEAT OF THE MOMENT? He was just telling the NON EMERGENCY COPS about a guy he saw. Heat? Heat of the moment?

    7. THEN — George says he got out of his car. He claims to have seen Trayvon go into the cut-through and turn right. George then explains that he knew if he went PAST the place where Trayvon disappeared by “turning right,” he would be approaching the street HE lives on and thus he could give the cops an “exact house number and street.”

    Does anything strike you as ridiculous yet? It’s, “The cops want to know exactly where the guy is, so I get out of my car and go PAST where he turned right to go to the street where I LIVE, where I KNOW he isn’t, so I can answer their urgent questions about where this suspicious guy is.”

    Huh? Does anybody else have a problem with this item #7?

    8. THEN he says the cops asked, “Are you following him?” And he says he answered, “Yes.” He admits they said, “We don’t need you to do that.” He says he walked through and told the cops, “He’s not here any more.” At this point george claims he had gone to Retreat View Circle.
    He says the cops asked if he still wanted an officer. Well, no, they were just trying to figure out where HE wanted an officer to MEET HIM. So George claims he told them to meet him at his car, and that he gave them a description of his car, and told them the car was at the clubhouse. ALL FALSE. He told them to call him once they were on the scene and he would tell them where he was at; he never gave them a description of the car; when they asked if they should just meet him at the mailboxes he said no. Then George claims he was on his way back to the car. He says he “told them to meet me at my car, hung up and put my phone away.”

    9. George says when he was halfway back to his car Trayvon “appeared out of nowhere.” He claims Trayvon asked him “You got a problem?” and by this time, George has stopped using the cute little embellishment, “Homie.” He claims he was reaching for his phone and Trayvon punched him in the nose and he fell over backwards and Trayvon “ended up” on top of him. Then the familiar story about how badly abused Zimmerman was, all the HELP HELP screaming, all the “SHUT THE F*CK UP” and so forth. Squirming, screaming George — his jacket rides up, Trayvon kind of “sat up, looked” and then the famous, “You’re gonna die tonight, MFer” line. George claims that he didn’t know for sure that he had shot Trayvon Martin. He thought that when Trayvon sat up and said, “You got me,” that was Trayvon simply admitting that he HEARD A SHOT and so he “gave up.” He then claims Trayvon sat up, fell back, and George ended up straddling HIM and trying to restrain him and trying to spread out his hands to make sure he didn’t have a weapon. ???

    So at this point in the narration, George claims to not yet know that he had actually shot Trayvon Martin; perhaps Trayvon was just giving up because he heard a gunshot and got scared. !!!!!!!!!

    There’s a bystander who says he’ll call 911.
    George says, no, just help me restrain this guy.
    Then Trayvon stopped struggling.
    Then George holstered his weapon.

    ********* WHY? ***********

    George still cannot know that he has shot Trayvon Martin, just because Martin stopped struggling. George needs to keep his weapon OUT and aimed at the guy because remember, TWICE ALREADY this guy disappeared and then REAPPEARED and jumped George! TWICE! So how does George NOW know that he is safe to put away his weapon? Maybe the guy will spring up, punch George again, disarm and kill him!!


    10. THEN George says the police showed up. They ask, “Who shot him?” He says, “I did.” HOW DOES HE KNOW? Just a minute ago, with blood all in his eyes and out of breath from a beating and a near death experience, he was not sure he HAD shot him. How come now he is so sure?

    11. George then claims to have heard cops or EMTs say that his, George’s, nose was broken and that he would need “one, maybe two, stitches in the back of his head.” Nothing in the police report about this conversation.

    12. VSA Examiner asks why George tried to maintain visual with “the guy.” George says so he could tell the police where the guy was. In answer to the question, “You didn’t feel yourself endangered?” George says no and explains: “These GUYS are known just to RUN when they get suspicious. THey know the neighborhood. I told non-emergency, he’s gone.”

    13. At minute 41 on the tape, the most important IMO part of this conversation. George says he was on the ground, his jacket slid up (come on, how would he know that?) and he felt Trayvon’s hand slide down his chest. (Really? Being beaten and headslammed he suddenly has a clear feeling of a hand on his chest? REALLY?) and he hears Trayvon say, “You’re gonna die tonight MFer.” Actually, here’s the passage:

    [He said] ‘You’re gonna die tonight MFer.” I felt his hand going down the side of my chest. To be honest with you–

    * * * [right here, the VSA guy interrupts him and asks something and he quickly answers and then backs up to the beginning of the sentence he had tried to complete, saying] * * *

    “To be honest with you, the whole time I forgot that I had the gun. WHen he said that I was gonna die, and then I felt him brushing, it automatically clicked that he was going for…”

    * * * [Again VSA guy interrupts, damnit! * * *

    “One hand was going to the gun, he took his hand off my mouth…”

    “I grabbed my gun”

    “I got to it first”

    * * *

    That’s when it clicked that I HAD MY GUN…”

    14. George agrees with the VSA guy that there is hardly any room to shoot Trayvon — as he agreed with Serino that he shot Trayvon Martin “at point blank range.”


    NOW. The interview starts with George being told that the VSA exam wants to narrow in on two questions: (a) Did you confront “the guy” or was it simply HIM attacking and you not having confronted him at all? and (b) When you shot “the guy” were you in fear for your life.

    There are no electrodes measuring blood pressure or any physiological responses; ONLY STRESS IN THE VOICE is measured.

    Therefore, if George is NOT STRESSED when he says that he did not confront Martin and that he was in fear for his life, the test will not be any problem for him to pass.

    Jeez. Professor Turley takes this as MORE EVIDENCE that Corey overcharged Zimmerman? Wow, that just shows you how much an uneducated unprestigious unimportant unprepossessing 65-year-old woman (who can make chicken soup) disagrees with a nationally and internationally recognized constitutional scholar.

    Thank you for your interest and concern.

  86. Something that we haven’t “talked” about is the position of M after he is shot. There are some contradictions.

    Z isn’t clear how M gets off him. Did Z push him? Did he fall on his own? I guess it’d be a good idea to listen to his various stories on how M ended up on the ground and whether he was on his face or his back. Anyway,

    Z says M was face down, Z jumped on him, SPREAD HIS ARMS, and restrained him, even asking for help in restraining “this guy” who was cursing him. His gun was still in his right hand.

    Smith, first cop on the scene, didn’t go near M. Ayala, second cop on the scene, finds M face down his hands UNDER him. How did this happen?

    Z must have really been pumped up to think that he needed help restraining a dead kid. He seems to be trying to project a cool image but this says he was not, at all.

    He didn’t put the gun away until he thought he saw a cop coming. So he’s over M’s body, gun in hand, and he’s looking for people to help him. Hell, no, buddy. you just shot someone and still have your gun out. I’m calling the cops. Z was in his own world.

    In the stress test video, when Z says he went for his phone, he used exactly the same motion as when he went for his gun. But he claims that he forgot that he had it.

    He’s quite clear and explicit on procedure stuff (hands on top of his head, here’s my gun, he cuffed me, blah blah blah), but he’s really fuzzy on how which hand M used to go for Z’s gun, he doesn’t know if he pushed Z to get him off him or if he fell.

    He says repeatedly that he told the dispatcher “he’s gone” when he never said any such thing. He may have thought it but he didn’t say it.

  87. I was just reading Z’s initial statement of 2/26. He says nothing about M reaching for the gun. Just that M had his hands over Z’s nose and mouth. Z doesn’t remember M reaching for the gun until 2/27

    re: Prof Turley’s write-up. Is it possible that he believes the accused is innocent until proven guilty?

  88. BettyKath — I have had that kind of thing happen, but not recently.
    I look forward to reading your post.
    If you get two stunt men (the right size) and work and work and work, you can produce two videos that appear to show what Zimmerman said happened. And those two need to be (a) good contortionists; and (b) very patient.


    In his nine-page order, the judge today chastised Zimmerman.

    A Sanford judge today ordered George Zimmerman, the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin, released on $1 million bail but called him a manipulator and said it appeared the defendant had been preparing to flee the country.

    It was not immediately clear how long it would take the 28-year-old Zimmerman to arrange his release.

    Defense attorney Mark O’Mara said Friday that Zimmerman’s legal defense fund had a balance of $211,000, more than enough to cover the 10-percent non-refundable portion charged by most bonding companies.

    “By any definition, the defendant has flaunted the system,” Lester wrote. “It appears to this court that the defendant is manipulating the system for his own benefit.”

    The judge accused Zimmerman of committing a new felony – lying while providing evidence about bail – and hinted that he might bring “future contempt proceedings.”

    Lester was troubled, he wrote, that Zimmerman and his wife hid the money and that George Zimmerman had, until recently, a second, undisclosed passport.

    Those things, to him, meant the couple was about to flee.

    “Notably, together with the passport, the money only had to be hidden for a short time for him to leave the country if the defendant made a quick decision to flee. It is entirely reasonable for this court to find that, but for the requirement that he be placed on electronic monitoring, the defendant and his wife would have fled the United States with at least $130,000 of other people’s money.”

    Lester is unhappy, he wrote, that no one offered any testimony, explaining why Shellie Zimmerman said what she did at that April 20 bond hearing, why her husband did nothing to correct her and why they were moving money around in secret in the first place.

  90. WOW, Lester was NOT HAPPY about being played for a fool.

    Whole new deal here. Wolfinger would have been fine being played for a fool, in the old days.

  91. Zimmerman told the voice stress analyst that he had forgotten he had his gun on him until he felt Trayvon’s hand slide down his chest.

    He told Serino that he shot Trayvon Martin at point-blank range.

    He told Serino that Martin was screaming for help but corrected himself to say, “I was.”

    He told the non-emergency number that he was following Trayvon Martin.

    Anybody think O’Mara’s gonna put him on the stand ever again? They better check the batteries in his ankle monitor.

  92. Had a major posting disappear AGAIN Malisha! It’s starting again. I don’t feel like repeating it now. It was about passports and stuff.

    Anyway Eric Holder needs to put George, Shellie, and Frank on the NO-FLY-LIST today!

  93. Also notify USN and USCG of possible high-speed boats leaving Miami area for Cuba or Mexico. These slimy eels are about to BOUNCE!!! Somebody better put a GPS ankle bracelet on this kid before its too late.

  94. I agree with you Sonofthunder. There’s probably already a million dollars IN the paypal account but O’Mara controls that now. O’Mara has probably already told George that he cannot risk going to trial. That means he will have to take a plea. Will the prosecutor be eager to deal down as far as George wants it? I…DO…NOT…THINK…SO.

    It seems to me now that George and Shelli can go separately to Mexico, looking like Mexicans if necessary. George would hate that. I find it very funny, of course. I doubt they had a third passport.

  95. Mexico will only tolerate US illegals in their nation until they run out of money. Then they are rousted out…

  96. On one of these threads, I left a comment yesterday saying that Zimmerman is now in a fix because Lester does not hold a high opinion of his credibility, and ONLY his credibility would get him off on a SYG motion (judge without jury). O’Mara, seeing how low an opinion this judge holds of his client, wouldn’t DARE try to get him off without a trial, because the thought of putting George on the stand to say, “I had to kill him, Your Honor, I had no choice” is laughable at this point. DENIED.

    So now there are two choices left: PLEA or TRIAL. (Unless George figures out a way to flee and makes his family lose their million dollars or unless the Skinheads or the corporate-gun-guys totally save him with a few billion dollars.)

    Trial would be very risky for Zimmerman. What can O’Mara do? Eliminate EVERY Black jury member? Eliminate half the WHITE jury pool of Seminole County because they aren’t likely to approve of miscellaneous shootings? Bad situation.

    Also, the money has to pour in now just to keep O’Mara and his team working as hard as they have to work.

    PLEAD to what? Will the prosecution accept a little bitty charge now? Will the judge approve a little slap on the wrist now?

    It’s an uh oh for George; it’s not anything but a big big UH OH for George. Let him go to Uncle Frank Taaffe for some more role modeling.

  97. Good analysis! I suspect that many strategies are being discussed right now between the Z-Group (O’Mara included). PayPal has $204,000 on account for Z as of June 29th. Shellie figured out a way to funnel off $10,000 a whack so as not to trip the Feds money transfer alarm system. She claims it’s a Paypal rule not her device (yeah right). PayPal is SUPER paranoid about everything. Their security people act on any transactions that smell funny. They even shut down accounts pending further investigation on the least suspicion of anything.

    As of 22 hours ago (05-Jul-2012):”…Zimmerman must submit to electronic monitoring, remain in Seminole County, stay away from the Orlando-Sanford International Airport, refrain from applying for a passport or opening or maintaining a bank account, avoid alcohol and obey a curfew from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m.”

    He has a $1,000,000 USD bond set. He only needs 10% ($100,000) and his independent trustee of his PayPal account has that. HOWEVER, if a Bail Bond Company will put up $900,000 they will need deeds to homes, etc. And they will post a 24x7x365 undercover sentry outside GZ’s residence. They won’t have access to the GPS device on his ankle but they will put one under the bumper on his Silver Honda Ridgeline SUV (if they haven’t already got the pink slip on it that is). Daddy’s house is only worth $150,000 up in Lake Mary. George only rents from a lady at Twin Lakes.

    If he wants a fake passport he will need to get to Miami and must have at least $5,000 in cash. His buddy Frank can handle that as he will need one too. Frank has the money. However, since USAG Eric Holder is being so cooperative by helping with decoding Shellie/George telephone call, he needs to also just “slip” all those name on the DHS No-Fly-List. I mean reporters get put on by “accident” all the time.

    BTW – VINCENT TAAFFE is real and very legit. He is a 29 year old US-DoD employee out of Flagler Beach, FL. He is alive and well. He hates his father as can be seen by his WORDPRESS posting I supplied above.

  98. As of today 6-July PayPal has accrued another $7,000 USD equaling $211,000 (source: Mark O’Mara).

    Local Bail Bond companies will need to see at least $900,000 in collateral from friends and family willing to put it on the line. HOWEVER, most of them are NRA members. That might change pretty quickly. Since the NRA (i.e. Wayne LaPierre) has been sticking it’s nose in US government operations (ATF: Operation Fast & Furious) and other controversial situations, they may be willing to put up the collateral just to make a point of some sort. They too will put sentries on GZ too to protect their investment.

  99. I do not believe that the webpage that pulled in the 200K is the only webpage pulling in money. I DO BELIEVE that it is the only webpage O’Mara has anything to do with; he’s not gonna risk his license to practice law for George or anybody else. This case has been a certain kind of problem for him but he is not a risk-taker. He’s a professional. I believe, however, that Taaffe could be running any number of scams any number of ways. Wibker could be doing stuff too; she has some exposure for the “Neighborhood Watch” crap; they were not duly organized or registered as an entity, apparently. Shellie Zimmerman could have allies doing all sorts of things with web-pages. The folks in Virginia who sold the Trayvon Martin gun targets could be raising money galore from the KKK-American-Nazi-Skinhead-Registered-Racist crowd. Don’t imagine there aren’t cops in on it all, either. Although nobody is actually SAYING IT (since the hoodie-target guys went under cover) the Racist Underground is going to donate to George in secret ways that will be very lucrative and very “laundered.” THey just can’t do it right now because they can’t risk it looking like George can pull in a cool million in a quick minute.

    Every form of perfidy is being practiced right now. You can take that to the bank. And at the bank (ANY BANK) you can find a banker working on putting this whole deal together.

    George Zimmerman is not even important in this deal; he’s just a pretty face for their poster. They are protecting their right to eliminate the Trayvon Martins of the world when they need to. It will be a nasty, drawn-out fight with psycho-fanatics supporting a cause they believe is a life-and-death thing for THEM, and we can’t know where the finish is.

  100. sonofthunder, thanks for the confirmation of Vincent. I used quotes around his name b/c it hadn’t been verified. From the domestic abuse, orders of protection, etc. Frank is one bad dude. Lot of anger/violence issues. and a friend of Zimmerman

  101. Apparently Taaffe’s arrests also include trespass and PETTY THEFT!!!!!

    Who’s the suspicious guy NOW?

  102. BettyKath – “Vincent” has also been in and out of the Florida justice system too.

    The court says GZ only needs to come up with $85,000 as he already has $15,000 on account with bail bondsman in last bond. If he gets out they will put him up at a obscure motel (“safehouse*”) probably on the edge of seminole state forest. Some place out of the way and they will rent the ENTIRE motel. Someone who won’t talk and can be bribed easily. An RV/Trailer park sounds do-able too. They only need to buy a cheap RV or trailer. GZ prolly already has a Reese Hitch on his Honda Ridgeline. If not U-Haul can mount one for under $200.


    BTW – GZ left for the safehouse TODAY at 3:26 PM EDT!!! He’s out!

    I hope the news media finds the “safehouse” and keeps the “heat” on these unrepentant murderers. Something better happen in TM’s favor before the testosterone* starts to flow next month in the sweltering heat of central Florida. Remember St. Petersburg, Florida 1996? How about Miami in 1980 and 1982? Next Sanford 2012?


  103. Those PayPal accounts came up with the cool million in a quick minute.
    They’re buying Zimmerman a little island to go live on. No “suspicious guys” allowed there.

  104. Malisha, They raised an additional 20,000. maybe a bit more by now. He needed to post only 10% of the million for the bondsman. His parents put up their house to cover the million. If he bolts, the bondsman gets the house. Either way, I think the bondsman gets to keep the 100 grand.

  105. I thought the parents’ house was not worth a million; I believe millions are coming in through unnamed PayPal accounts and through Taaffe, Oliver, and maybe others.

  106. Well, here is Judge Kenneth Lester’s view of George Zimmerman’s credibility:

    I believe that my prediction that “O’Mara cannot risk putting George Zimmerman on the stand” is correct. I think it will be correct going forward; I don’t see a way for Zim to “correct” the image that his credibility equals (approximately) his obvious fitness for the job of “protector of everyone in his neighborhood.” Both at zero, so far.

  107. I read the bond conditions and nothing about Zimmermans conceal carry gun permit. Is he still armed? If so, he is still dangerous, imho….

  108. I would expect his family and his to tell him no weapon. otoh, he may feel the need to protect himself from Martin supporters. How strong is his paranoia and his need to be in control?

    btw, I’m impressed with the judge.

  109. Shano, I had not thought of that. When I read that he was “not a danger,” I immediately disagreed, but didn’t make much of it. Now it’s really getting my attention. I think George has the potential not only to be dangerous right now, but to be psycho-dangerous right now. In fact, he should not have been let out without careful forensic psychiatric data. Who’s to say, if he gets involved in serious gunplay now, like a TV-style shoot out, that it was either “Defending himself against threats from Black Panthers” or “Yet another rampage because he needed groceries”?

  110. Current news article says: “Mark O’Mara, Mr. Zimmerman’s attorney, wrote that donors have been lining up for several reasons – that he’s been unfairly treated by the media, that he’s been falsely labeled a racist, and that donors, if they were in a similar position, would likely have done the same thing.”

    O’Mara has hit upon it: “Donors, if they were in a similar position, would likely have done the same thing.” That is, if they were in the position that George Zimmerman now SAYS he was in. That apparently includes people who “believe” George Zimmerman’s account of the encounter. For quite a while, I have believed that the pro-Zim blogging camp has been composed of people who would have LIKED to kill Trayvon Martin, and anybody else they thought of as being “suspicious” and “up to no good.”

    These people feel threatened if they cannot rid the world of people who make THEM feel uncomfortable. People who, perhaps, do not accept THEM as the authorities. People who, perhaps, would defend themselves if someone like George Zimmerman came upon them without officially recognized authority and yet tried to dominate them. That’s not just who donates; that’s who feels that Zimmerman was wronged by being charged with a crime. They think his word should be accepted without challenge, and that he should be accorded martyr status for his two scrapes (Serino called them “capillary lacerations”) on his noggin, for his scratch on his nose.

    If you look at the other two comments that O’Mara says motivate people to donate money to his client, they are also interesting. One reason is that Zimmerman has been “unfairly treated by the media.” Obviously, that’s part of the outcry we hear whenever reports do not line up behind the Zimmerman story. People like Dershowitz and Merrit believe that since George’s story is entitled to unquestioning belief, it is “unfair” to report a different version of the story. And it circles back to BELIEVING ZIMMERMAN. O’Mara goes on to say that Zimmerman has been “falsely labeled a racist,” which is also interesting, as a motivation for contributions. Most of the people (like Frank Taaffe) who claim that George is not a racist back it up by suggesting that Blacks tend to commit more crimes than whites. So they are saying that Zimmerman was “not racist” because his belief that a Black kid was likely to be a criminal was not “racist” but “accurate.” They’re actually not saying that he’s not racist; they’re saying he’s RIGHT to be racist. They’re not defending Zimmerman; they’re defending their own racism, their own belligerency and homicidal feelings, and their own wish to be held harmless and blameless in spite of their behavior, no matter what they do.

    They want to live in the world where killing some unarmed kid they don’t like is still OK. It was like that in the South 100 years ago; they want it to stay that way today. They may succeed, actually.

  111. Oh, also from a current news article: “A second passport Zimmerman acquired after the shooting has also been seized by the state.”

    This means that AFTER THE SHOOTING, Zimmerman went and got a duplicate passport. Thus, his having turned in ONE out of the TWO passports he had when he was first out on bail was no mistake, further destroying his already damaged credibility.

    Zimmerman really does believe that he should be above ALL the laws.

  112. Putting the second passport in a bank box would not likely be found if police executed a search warrant for some reason.

    Zimmerman may be an accomplished liar and creatively duplicitous but he really isn’t the brightest bulb in the chandelier.

    What’s happening at the stately manor? I can’t find the url.

  113. I would expect his family and his LAWYER to tell him no weapon. (My mind works faster than my fingers.) A responsible dealer would have probably have video of the transaction, and if s/he had any smarts, would go to a back room and call someone to find out if it was ok to sell to him. In any case, to report the transaction if it was carried out. And the electronic bracelet would put him in a shop. I see his only option would be from an individual.

  114. Here is the exact statement from O’Mara, who knows George did not pay his legal bills in the past, so possibly just wants to make sure he is not on this case for charity. Zimmerman is now saying all his money is gone, gone with the wind….How did George spend over a 100 grand already?

    Oh, yea, there is a huge black market in guns, I bet Zimmerman is exploring that as we speak, or maybe his wife went out to buy some firearms for herself?

    Judd Legum on Jul 5, 2012 at 5:18 pm
    Today, Florida Judge Kenneth Lester set a new bond of $1 million for George Zimmerman. Lester said that Zimmerman, whose bond was originally set at just $150,000, was “manipulating the system” and, but for GPS monitoring, “would have fled the United States with at least $130,000” that he failed to diclose to the court.

    In a posting to his website after the new bond was announced, Zimmerman attorney Mark O’Mara sought more donations from people who also would have shot and killed Trayvon Martin:

    “For those who have given in the past, for those who have thought about giving, for those who feel Mr. Zimmerman was justified in his actions, for those who feel they would do the same if they were in Mr. Zimmerman’s shoes, for those that think Mr. Zimmerman has been treated unfairly by the media, for those who feel Mr. Zimmerman has been falsely accused as a racist, for those who feel this case is an affront to their constitutional rights — now is the time to show your support.”

    O’Mara said Zimmerman would pay an additional $85,000 to a bail bondsman to secure his release but, combined with other expenses, would wipe out his current legal defense fund.”

    Now is the time to give George some cold hard cash!

  115. I didn’t think about Taaffe and Oliver setting up there own PayPal campaign for GZ. However, I would think they would show up in my open source data mining. I mean that’s something you want the world to see – right?

    Regarding GZ’s gun: State has it locked up in evidence. His permit has NOT been revoked. However, the FBI has been snooping around gun dealers in the area and they would be insane to sell him ANYTHING. That includes Shellie as her picture is out on the Internet now. That doesn’t stop his friends, brother, other relatives, and father from sharing their weapons with him (or at least buying one for him).

    Dad’s Lake Mary house is NOT worth $1m. Seminole County Assessor’s office lists it at around $150,000. When you look at the house on Google Earth is is quite small and unpretentious. I really think the NRA put up the collateral for GZ as no sane Bails Bond Co. will do it on credit. The NRA is the only pro-GZ group that has that kind of money. They only need to put up $900,000 (equity) as the $100,000 (cash) comes from GZ’s PayPal campaign. This means that GZ is under a microscope by several entities (electronic & physical surveillance).

    I think its like Grand Central Station at his so-called safe house. Crown Vics, Chevy Suburbans, Hummers, Dodge Sprinters, etc. all trying to look unobtrusive all up and down the road – all with 80% tint and guys with Oakley sunglasses with strange bulges on their waste bands.

    Did you see those two THUGS protecting GZ? That fat one with the black shirt and Oakleys had a US Army rutsack – ex-Army Ranger?
    Malisha – you are right that the TM “haters” are sending money as they are buying GZ’s version of the incident. They also paint TM as a thug (violent criminal) because they saw him with a gold tooth, heard about his tattoo, and saw his rapper wannabe Internet debut. How does that mean he was a violent criminal (thug)? These people are experiencing transference. They are transferring their primal fears of being molested or attacked by a violent black thug in a dark ally onto this scenario. They are totally missing the point here – Trayvon was NOT a threat to Zimmerman. TM was defending himself from a potential pedophile on his way to his temporary home. GZ was overstepping his authority and CONFRONTED Trayvon in a very arrogant fashion. Taaffe was probably also there egging GZ on and probably took GZ’s gun away from him and fired on TM in cold blood – execution style – as one eyewitness is saying but being put down by SPD as being misatken.
    If I had to guess where the SAFE HOUSE is I’d say it’s on Rt. 46 near Seminole State Forest at a RV Park. I hope the news media patrols that road until they find the circus of spooks hanging out there. How do I think that? it’s what I would do – I guess. Yes I don’t care if his safe house is no longer safe. Don’t worry he’s got help. Trayvon didn’t…

  116. Does the bullet match Georges gun? Just curious if any ballistics tests were done that we could know about.

    Is there any indication of the trial date yet? So interesting about this 900 large and where the equity may have come from. I agree the NRA is the most likely source.

    I cannot imagine George staying out of trouble in such a closed environment where he will have to be under supervision for very long.

    I bet his babysitters are going to change their view of this guy with such close association. The paid bodyguards will be able to tolerate him for a price…..

  117. Expect them to adhere to the 6PM to 6AM curfew – however, expect many sojourns to Miami area to purchase things just barely legal. Things to augment security and/or afford them a safe getaway when the time comes to “bounce” (aka exfiltrate). Maybe someone is setting up an anonymous timeshare in Bermuda? Did Shellie funnel a lot of the money to the Grand Caymans? Is someone looking for a puddle-jumper pilot to pilot a small Cessna out of an abandoned or little-known airstrip in Orlando area just in case the case doesn’t go well? I’m just spit-balling here…
    Donations up to $36,000
    Susan and David Engel of Engel Bail Bonds of Sanford FL (next door to courthouse) report to media that they don’t require any collateral on bonds. They have been very vocal to news media about GZ too. Are they the mystery Bails Bond company fronting GZ’s $900k? They’d better have a crack retrieval team on standby like Dog The Bounty Hunter when these clowns bounce.
    Here’s the mystery phone calls between GZ and Shellie about the money. This was decoded by USAG Eric Holder’s office (US DoJ). Its an hour 33 minutes long:

  118. “SARI HORWITZ- The Washington Post (justice reporter) :..we saw the ballistics report that shows us exactly where Trayvon Martin was shot, the left part of his chest. We find out where the bullet went, through his heart, through his lung. It never left his body. We found out that there was close contact, that it was shot at very close range. It was like a contact shot…”

    Trial date should be sometime in 2013 I think…

    The babysitters will cooperate as long as the money holds up. The Bails Bondsmen will be paid a per diem or stipend plus expenses. But the NRA may supply contractors (from Xe Corp or DynCorp/CSC – ex-spooks) to replace them. The court appointed babysitters may like his wannabe-cop stories (for awhile) and Shellie will keep them in beer. GZ will love hearing their war stories from Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Africa, Granada, etc.

    GZ’s OTHER atty (Don West) is trying to get the safe house out of state. I don’t think Judge Lester gives a rat’s a55. One less racist murderer in the world? Shellie is just as bad as GZ as she is a slick con-artist-type. She is apparently well aware of the grift-trade-craft.

  119. ah yes, the Blackwater-Xe-Academi bloodlines. They sound so studious now, sort of like a college!

    Yea, Shellie looks like a thug to me, lol. We are just as bad profiling, but at least we have some evidence they are crooks first.

    Wouldn’t it be weird if Georges gun was on safety and Taaffe really shot him? George pulls his gun to shoot, but it doesn’t so Taffee shoots Martin instead.
    Maybe Georges gun is out and Taffee comes upon them after hearing the calls for help and helps George. Interesting speculation.
    I would have to hear more of these witnesses who seem to imply another actor – as well as the DNA on the gun, holster, etc…….

  120. Yes Erik Prince (CEO of Academi) is usually called in to do executive protection for rich people. So the NRA has to protect its poster boy right? The New Black Panthers have a $1m bounty on GZ’s head (like they actually have $1million anything).

    The speculation that there was a 3rd person is on the 911 tapes – the first one. A lady id’s a man in a white shirt. The DNA evidence is already out for the public. I stumbled on it when listening to two pundits talking about the DNA results. I think it was on YouTube. They had photocopies of the actual reports.

    When you listen to the video I attached above of GZ and Shellie’s phone convo that got them in trouble, they mention the “safety counselor” a lot near the end. It sounds like they are talking about Frank Taaffe. He suggested a safe house NEAR the Sanford Intl Airport in direct violation of Judge Lester’s order to stay away from SIA. Then they were talking about getting into a hotel with a parking garage and using rental cars. They talk about being “on the road”.

    I think FT followed Trayvon on foot in the rain behind GZ. I think FT was unarmed as it was spur of the moment stuff. I think TM was eventually on his knees execution style begging for his life as I think one eyewitness claimed (SPD doubts her testimony). I think GZ pointed the Kel-Tek 9mm semi-automatic pistol at TM but couldn’t pull the trigger as he hesitated. I think FT (angst-ridden over “those a55holes” burglarizing him) yanked the gun away from GZ (depositing his DNA on it) and then shot TM point blank in the heart, then ran away like a coward leaving GZ to face SPD.

    I don’t think FT is stupid enough to bring his own gun when GZ was stupid enough to be carrying one in a peaceful neighborhood (i.e. no business reason to be carrying one?).

  121. “SARI HORWITZ- The Washington Post (justice reporter) :..we saw the ballistics report that shows us exactly where Trayvon Martin was shot, the left part of his chest. We find out where the bullet went, through his heart, through his lung. It never left his body. We found out that there was close contact, that it was shot at very close range. It was like a contact shot…”

    That’s from the Washington Post, right?

    From the autopsy, though: INTERMEDIATE RANGE

  122. The test results show that Z had gunshot residue on his hands but say that it could be for reasons other than firing the gun (proximity of a firing is sufficient).

    The test on Ms clothing say it was a contact shot.

    The test on Zs clothing shows gunshot residue ONLY on the upper back portion of the right sleeve of the jacket. No other residue on either the jacket or the shirt. (Ms on top of him, he does a contact firing and there is no residue on any of his clothing except the upper back of his sleeve?)

    The test results are inconclusive as to whether or not the bullet came from Zs gun. Someone familiar with handguns can probably understand this report better than I can. (page 17)

    Separate tests were done on the gun grip, trigger, slide and holster.

    There was blood on the grip; not on the slide or the holster;
    no test on the trigger.
    The grip: DNA of two people, Z is one; M is eliminated; 2nd is unknown.
    The trigger: not enough DNA for a test
    The slide: not enough DNA except one male; neither M or Z is eliminated.
    The holster: 3 individuals, one is Z; no determination for the other 2.

    Ms fingernail scrapings: blood on one; only Ms DNA on them.

    DNA tests were done on stains of the shirts, jackets but hard to draw any conclusions without knowing where the stains are. (pg 4+)

    No tests whatever were done on the Ms cell phone. Zs cell was not submitted apparently.

    They need to take another look for the guy in the white shirt, the one who actually fired the gun.

  123. I think if it really looks like he’s going down, Zimmerman may decide to tell the whole story. He may have accepted responsibility b/c he thought it would make him a hero. That’s out the window. Now he has to come out of it with something less than 20-life. Maybe the car circling was Taafe’s contribution and Z just picked upon it.


    A human rights crisis confronts Black people in the United States. Since January 1, 2012, police and a much smaller number of security guards and self-appointed vigilantes have murdered at least 110 Black women and men. These killings are definitely not accidental or random acts of violence or the work of rogue cops.

    As we noted in our April 6th, 2012 “Trayvon Martin is All of US!” Report (see, the use of deadly force against Black people is standard practice in the United States, and woven into to the very fabric of the society.

    The corporate media have given very little attention to these extrajudicial killings. We call them “extrajudicial” because they happen without trial or any due process, against all international law and human rights conventions. Those few mainstream media outlets that mention the epidemic of killings have been are unwilling to acknowledge that the killings are systemic – meaning they are embedded in institutional racism and national oppression.
    On the contrary, nearly all of the mainstream media join in a chorus that sings the praises of the police and read from the same script that denounces the alleged “thuggery” of the deceased. Sadly, too many people believe the police version of events and the media’s “blame-the-victim” narratives that justify and support these extrajudicial killings.

    However, we have studied each of the reports of these deaths — including false, implausible and inconsistent claims by police and witness reports that contradict police reports.
    From this study and many peoples’ experience, we must reject the corporate media’s rationalization for the horrible fact that in the first six months of this year, one Black person every 40 hours was executed. This wanton disregard for Black life resulted in the killing of 13 year-old children, fathers taking care of their kids, women driving the wrong cars, as well as people with mental health and drug problems.

  125. I really did think I heard two shots on the 911 call where the screams and the fatal shot is heard. Now, with this evidence, I am beginning to think that what happened was that one shot was fired from one gun (Zimmerman’s) and another shot was fired from another gun (never recovered at the crime scene). Trayvon Martin was described as being right next to Taaffe’s house before the “Sh*t, he ran” part of the narration. Being shot through the heart while still ON TOP of Zimmerman, Martin’s blood should have been all over ALL of Zimmerman’s torso at LEAST. And the “anonymous witness” who took the pictures of the bloody head at the scene of the crime before the police show up? Interesting. THAT person had not called 911 when he saw a prone figure on the ground, right? He spent his time in photography instead, right?

  126. Malisha, that is what I always thought, that Martins blood should have been all over GZ. Shot through the heart, major arteries severed, how many seconds did it take Zimmermna to get out from under Trayvon? Maybe the hoodie absorbed most of the blood? Would there be splatter? ack to terrible to think about.

  127. Are we sure that photo was taken before the cops showed up? I couldn’t find the picture with the time stamp.

    I don’t think Zimmerman shot his gun at all! The only residue was on the upper BACK of the sleeve of his jacket. Nothing on the front. Nothing on his shirt.

    I’m not sure of the blood. The movies always put a lot of blood out there for effect but I’m not sure it always happens. Did the autopsy say that major arteries were severed? If I remember correctly the bullet went from the heart to the lung. Think about a slo-mo of a balloon being hit. The impact point goes in, the splash is where the bullet goes out. I would expect the blood to follow the bullet into the lung. But I took biology in summer school so I wouldn’t have to take the lab and autopsy a worm or whatever they used.

    Back to the flip of the coin voice stress test. The person conducting the test told him to think about the stress he felt when he was pulled over for speeding when he lied about that question. Well, it would have been just as valid for the other intentional lies. He mentioned three or four things that we tend to feel when pulled over. Z could have thought these things for those questions where he was supposed to be lying. And drugged out for the rest.

  128. BettyKath, in the 90s I was involved in a case where child abuse had taken place on an army base and the CO of the particular alleged abuser (a full colonel and head of the marksmanship unit at Fort Benning GA) refused to allow a court martial OR a custody case to go forward in civil courts to establish protection for the kids. Four kids, the oldest two of which were twins who gave VERY credible evidence of abuse, that was corroborated by physical evidence in a civilian hospital and by three authorities including ARMY social worker and CID officer in charge in the Army itself. We put together a dossier and were in touch with the General in the Pentagon who was in charge of the entire Army Division of Social Work for dependants and blah blah blah blah. All of a sudden this Colonel calls me at home. Where did he get my number I ask? He says it was in the papers. (It was not.) I say, OK, what do you want? He says he wants to stop me from making a buffoon of myself. I say that’s very kind and thoughtful of him but no thanks, and then he goes on the offensive and gets very threatening. I decide to draw him out and say that I’ll debate him if he would like, and he comments that he can hear me typing as I speak and I say, yes, I am taking notes, because this call is important to me. HA HA HA we go at it. He challenges me to a televised debate; I accept; he backs out. He tells me to come down to Fort Benning to debate him and I say buy me a bus ticket and I’ll be there; he declines. He starts to give me all the evidence of his innocence. Here it is, in order:

    1. He looked into his daughter’s vagina because she had a boo boo
    2. He thought he better check his other daughters for boo boos because maybe it was an infection.
    3. He passed a “lie detector test.”

    I said, “Oh really, a polygraph?”
    No, he answerd, a “voice stress analysis.”

    Oh, I said, and did you tell that voice stress analysis examiner that you were looking for boo boos every other weekend for a couple of years?

    He then got really mad, called me a “dominant woman,” and hung up.

    Then he never got around to debating me. I DON’T THINK HE FELT ANY STRESS AT ALL when he was telling me his version of the events. I think people like him and George Zimmerman only feel stress (in their voice or elsewhere) when you CHALLENGE their version of reality, not when you let them TELL IT. In fact, them TELLING their own version of reality makes them feel good, makes them calm down, assures them that they are OK. They don’t recognize their version of reality as a self-centered lie because they see the world as all about THEM, so the rights of some other individual like Trayvon Martin don’t interfere with their composure.

    O’Mara is now saying that this is about George’s constitutional right to bear arms. No it’s not. It’s about Trayvon Martin’s constitutional right not to be deprived of his life without due process.



  129. Maybe O’Mara should stop focusing on SYG and start focusing on the lack of powder residue on George. Huh, I guess all the physical evidence could have been messed up by the cops that night. But cant they still test the clothes? Retest the gun? Why dont they have a confirmation of the bullet coming from Georges gun?

    Malisha: I do not know how you can talk to those people, I wouldnt have the nerve. But having a father who was a pathological liar confirms everything you say. They feel no stress when telling the story they have fabricated, but lots of stress when confronted with any evidence that what they are saying is not true.
    This is why I recognized what George was about almost immediately.

  130. Yeah Shano. Just watching GZ trying to be so accommodating so cooperative… it’s a scam to win over the confidence of the mark… namely the police. It seems that Chris Serino is the only one not buying his crap. Must have been a bunko man huh?

  131. And Shano I really think with all this new evidence O’Mara should dump on Taaffe and get the focus off of his client. Someone should contact the FBI SAIC in Tampa and bring him up to speed with our Sherlock Holmes-esque analysis. They should at least monitor FT’s movements and turn on Carnivore near Frank’s central station (all in the interest of NatSec of course – wink wink)?

  132. Shano, “…guess all the physical evidence could have been messed up by the cops that night. But cant they still test the clothes? Retest the gun? Why dont they have a confirmation of the bullet coming from Georges gun?”

    The clothes have been tested: the shirt and hoodie of Martin and the shirt and jacket of Zimmerman. The rest of the clothes of both are still in evidence but haven’t been tested. What they were able to prove about the gun is that it works. The bullet could have come from Zimmerman’s gun but it was too mangled to say with determination that it did.

    If I were the O’Mara, I’d try to get Z to tell me why there was no gunshot residue on his jacket (except on the back of one arm). But maybe not. If Zimmerman is covering up, he would still be facing serious charges.. I’d try to get him to plead to manslaughter. The lack of gunshot residue on the front of his jacket is the best evidence that he didn’t do it, but all of his statements and his walk-thru says he did it.

    If I were the prosecutor I’d put a good investigator on Taafe to find out more of what he knows. And get a DNA sample from him to see if its his DNA on the gun. But this isn’t Law and Order where they go looking for the whole story.

  133. Not only are they not looking for the whole story, but their primary goal is to keep the SPD and the Seminole County prosecutor’s office from catching it with the Feds, so they’d rather have almost ANYTHING happen than have it come out, all of it come out, about how much was covered up, thrown out, undone, and tampered with that night. In fact, remember Serino’s comment to the press about two, three weeks after it had happened? HE HOPED IT WOULD ALL COME OUT. He wasn’t TELLING any of it but hoped it would all come out. I think that’s why he wanted to get OUT OF THE STATION HOUSE and back onto the beat until the Feds are done. He didn’t want to be in a position to have to either see or “not see” anything that went down.

  134. Shano, sorry to hear about your father, but yes, exposure to one of these psychopaths does teach how the others work. You learn “in the field,” as it were, and it’s a damn big field.

  135. One of the commenters on one of the Zimmerman threads gave one of those “puffed up chest ME TARZAN” type comments and rolled it up at the end with “But you MUST ADMIT that Trayvon blah blah blah” and I did a little exercise with it. I began to think, “Hey, what if I were a Trayvon Martin who was exactly like what these guys are saying he had to be like. That is, I’m Trayvon Martin, and rather than being freaked out by the creepy white guy who’s been following me and so forth, I’m a gangsta thug kinda guy who wants to kill this somvab*tch ‘cauz he dissed me. So what am I gonna do?

    I think about it.

    Well here he is, this fatso punky-a55 white guy. Lookin’ at me wrong. In his big ole truck that I wish I had stole last night. OK. He’s lookin at me. I’d like to kill him. But I don’t have a gun, don’t have a knife, don’t have a siwtchblade, don’t have any real good weapon. And here he comes, he’s parking his truck. I’ll just hide out in these bushes and wait until he’s either confused or he lets his guard down. Now lessee. Lessee now. OK, he’s walking around, talkin on the cell phone. Then he goes down there to that other street, now he’s comin’ back, and he’s headed back to his truck. Uh huh, if I’m gonna have a chance to jump him and maybe kill him, I better act pretty quick ’cause he’s high-tailin back to his truck. Uh huh, better be now. OK, what can I get to knock him out cold with so he can’t defend. ‘Cause maybe HE HAS A GUN, ’cause these pu55y-a55 white punks carry guns ’cause they ain’t man enough to try to take on somebody like me without a piece. Yep, probly has a gun. Anyway where I LIVE where all the criminals hang out, everybody has a gun ’cause otherwise it wouldn’t be safe to be victimizing folks all the time; they might fight back. Yeah. Darn, in case he has a gun, what should I do to make sure I get him first and be able to disarm him. Hmmmmm. Lemme see is there a rock or a brick or a big branch around here I can come out behind him and smack him in the head with or else creep around and stick that stick in his face and poke his eyes out real quick so I can kill him before he reaches for his gun. Lessee, I’ll have to find a weapon…

    Yeah, I think if I were about to leap out and viciously assault this unknown white guy in the late model SUV, I’d want to think that he probably was armed and I’d want to make sure I had something to hit him with so the first clobber would bring him down and hopefully also unconscious, all at once. Either that or let me take off my shoes, use the shoelace, and grab him from behind and strangle his fat neck with my shoe-lace, something, because I don’t want to be facing this guy when he’s got a gun and I’ve got skittles.

    Yeah, if I were a vicious murderous unarmed 17-year-old thug, I’d pick up a rock or a brick or something to shore up my side when I attacked George Zimmerman. That’s a plain fact.

  136. Malisha – I get your salient point. However most black kids like trayvon are wannabes and not real anything. TM was just a scared little rabbit on his way to his temporary home just 4 doors away. He was using something called *fight or flight* or false-bravado to attempt to thwart what he precieved was an attack from GZ. I imagine Z must have appeared to be a child molester as he does fit the profile… stalking somebody in the dark and rainy evening. TM says ”do you have a problem [weirdo]?” Flight? To where? GZ and ostensibly Frank were right behind him right on his ”6”! I personally feel he had no choice but to fight. Too bad cowardly men like Z don’t feel the same way. They think guns are the answer and not the problem.

  137. Malisha – I always wondered why Chris requested to be returned to his old beat. That’s a demotion from gold badge (detective). I guess he was so disgusted with Bill Lee and his lack of leadership in this and other cases. Bill asked to step down and someone is subbing for him now. FBI SAIC Ibison has a whole cadre of field agents on this. They are interviewing everybody including private investigators. If there is something hiding under a rock somewhere they will find it. I hope the new evidence is really good today…

    Let’s pray someone will point Ibison toward Taaffe (the “safety counselor”) soon if he isn’t already on his radar. Being that Frank’s son & daughter is DoD, they should turn this into a natsec situation and then they can invoke Patriot Act on FT – I just shudder to think what he’s up to right now. I know he’s having a brewsky w/ the Z’s right now in the ol’ safe house next to the airport. To be a fly on that wall…

  138. Sonofthunder — I am not saying this was the real Trayvon Martin, the attacker I portrayed. I was doing that to show that IF the story of his attack were true, Trayvon would have had something in his hand he could have used! I believe YOUR take on it and so did Serino. Trayvon did not attack.

  139. I know… that’s why I said ” I get your salient point.” All I was saying is what you can go back to those anti-TM knuckleheads and explain to them the “real deal” and not that fantasy world they live in thinking all young black men with hoodies, gold teeth, and tattoos want to do is hurt white men. I’ve seen some of those idiotic postings from fearful white men with big guns on other web sites. Isn’t a gun really just a overcompensation for a… well you know (LOL).

  140. I’ve been looking around for the new evidence, and all I see is various news sources’ TAKE on the new evidence, which is pretty thin stuff, like “FBI thinks George is not a racist but has a ‘little hero’ complex” — utterly irrelevant and devoid of actual information. Does anybody know where I can find the actual INTERVIEWS and actual EVIDENCE that was supposed to be disclosed today publicly? What I’m most interested in, of course, is more actual verbatim statements and more reports that were contemporaneous — not people’s opinions on personal attributes of either of the two, victim or shooter.

  141. Hey Malisha, I follow this case over at Global Grind (of course Russell Simmons is keeping up ) Here is the link to the papers released:

  142. Serino: Z’s holster had no retention strap on the gun and it was not connected to a belt. He was unaware of [blacked out] taking pictures.

    RaTL witness, with a wife, heard commotion in the back of his house said he took pictures of Zimmerman, the flashlight and Martin with his cell phone, uploaded them to his computer then erased them from his cell phone. Interestingly, the photos were subsequently retrieved from his i-phone.

    From the autopsy of Martin
    Delta-9 THC 1.5 ng/mL
    Delta-9 Carboxy THC 7.3 ng/mL
    Cannabinoids Presump Pos

    *9 video cameras at the clubhouse, 5 outside 4 inside.
    *Video recording system was 18 minutes slow at the time of the shooting
    *Outside cameras: 2 cover back outside wall, 2 cover the pool area, 1 camera at the entrance and covers the front doors.
    *3 cameras are located on poles at the front gate but were not operational and were not recording at the time of the incident.

    April 11 when Zimmerman surrendered in Jacksonville his personal items included three 5.7×28 pistol magazines (loaded), FN Herstal pistol, Uncle Mike’s holster, Toshiba laptop with cord, Cruze 16 gb thumb drive, one 5.7×28 round etc., etc.

    So far all interviewees either don’t know Zimmerman or he’s a nice guy.

  143. FL requires all who have a concealed weapon or a firearm license to attend a 6 hr class on firearm safety. Zimmerman paid $90 and attended. A class “G” firearm license for private investigative, private security and repossession services requires the holder to perform a weapon proficiency test annually. Zimmerman does not maintain a class G license.

    Firearm/bullet testing about 2/3 of the way thru the documents. It’s all Greek or Sanskrit or something.

  144. So this is my take on this new information:

    1. This means that GZ wanted easy access to his pistol and it had to be concealed as it had no belt clip. Direct violation of his permit.

    2. I knew there was cell phone pictures and other video captures that night. This is not good for GZ’s story. How much ya’ wanna’ bet Frank Taaffe shows up in them? Also GZ said his flashlight was dead. Obviously this was another lie. Thanks to Apple when you delete something on an iPhone it’s still there I guess.

    3. Trayvon had little or no MJ in his system as that much THC is negligible and the likelihood that it was from 2nd hand source is high. SPD released early on that TM had no MJ in his system. Hence does not fit the portrait of a thug. However, Our last 3 President’s have admitted to having much more in their systems over time (and worse!).

    4. The clubhouse video system must have caught something that can be used to substantiate GZ’s version. However, there must be other cameras like personal web cameras or security systems recording.

    5. So the FN Herstal with his 5 28 round full clips was the gun he turned in when he turned himself in. Where the hell is the Kel-Tec 9mm that the FBI verified was sold to him by a Arabic man the gun he killed Trayvon with? This means GZ is playing games here. Never mind… I know that they already have it anyway…

    6. There was a RaTL Homeowners association meeting about 1 month before the killing. Most of the community showed up. The topic of the meeting was GEORGE ZIMMERMAN and his GUN. One member was forcibly removed by SPD from the meeting as he was very indignant about GZ and his guns. Others say he was passing out racist flyers about black burglars. How can anybody say they don’t know him? Or that he’s a nice guy? Yes he did have teaching sessions at his apartment for young local black kids on neighborhood safety but why did he focus on BLACK kids?

    7. By not having a class G he has no right carrying a concealed weapon as he has no business need to do so. He is supposed to have it out in the open at all times and have a reason to be carrying it. He was supposedly going to the grocery store for Shellie the night he killed Trayvon. What was he going to do? Hold up the store? RaTL and the local area is NOT a bad neighborhood. NO GUNS NEEDED!!!

  145. So he had a Toshiba Laptop in his Honda Ridgeline that night? Was he using wi-fi hot spots? It would be interesting to pull his Internet web cache from that night. And the little known Microsoft tool that no one knows about that helps computer forensic scientists see what you’ve been doing for the life of the PC even if you thought you erased, deleted, and reformatted. Bill Gates is a sneaky little buzzard…

  146. 12:56 PM EDT, THURSDAY JULY 12, 2012
    Zimmerman Tried To Buy More Guns After Trayvon Martin Killing

    George Zimmerman tried to buy more guns in the weeks after he shot and killed unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin, according to reports released on Thursday morning by prosecutors in his second-degree murder case.

    A gun seller told investigators that Zimmerman contacted him in the weeks after the killing drew international attention and told the seller he believed his life was in danger. The reports aren’t clear whether Zimmerman was successful at buying more guns, but they show that police found a folding knife, an FN Herstal pistol and three loaded 5.7x28mm magazines on him when he turned himself into authorities on April 11.

    Reported by Nick Martin Talking Points Memo (TPM)

  147. OK Malisha here’s some new data for you: Just found out that GZ DOES have a man on the inside that has been giving him help. Namely Mark Osterman a present US federal Dept of Homeland Security air marshal and ex-Seminole County deputy sheriff (forced to quit for being a sucker to a con-artist named Juan Diaz).. It appears that GZ hid at Mark’s Lake Mary home for 6 weeks. Mark is the one that forced GZ to turn himself in. Mark is the one that turned GZ onto guns and taught him how to shoot. Also it appears that GZ DOES read blogs like this and its spooks him. GOOD! The dumba55 thinks the New Black Panthers want to kill him. No they just want GZ to face the music with his jury. Mark should dump this con-artist like he should have done with Juan Diaz. Anyone that thinks Frank Taaffe is a “safety counselor” and a good friend must be a con-artist or a fool.


  148. In a timeline included in evidence documents released week of May 14th, Sanford police spelled out down to the second, what happened the night George Zimmerman fatally shot Trayvon Martin, based on time-stamped calls to their dispatch center.

    It shows Zimmerman fired 1 minute, 57 seconds after he hung up.

    Note: 1900 hours is 7:00 PM

    1911:12 – Call received from George Zimmerman reporting suspicious person

    (The Seminole County Sheriff’s Office, which handled the call, reported it came in at 1909:34)

    1913:19 – Zimmerman relays that suspicious person is running from him

    1913:36 – Dispatcher asks Zimmerman if he is following suspicious person

    1913:36 – Dispatcher advises Zimmerman “Okay; we don’t need you to do that”

    1915:23 – Approximate time call with Zimmerman ends

    1916:43 – 911 call placed by someone where someone is heard screaming for help

    1917:20 – Shot fired; screams from somebody cease

    1917:40 – Officer Timothy Smith arrives on scene

    1919:43 – Officer Timothy Smith locates and places Zimmerman in custody.

  149. sonofthunder, The class “G” firearm license is for private investigative, private security and repossession services. It is required that the holder perform a weapon proficiency test annually.

    Zimmerman does not maintain a class G license. He doesn’t need one to carry concealed. He just needed to take the 6 hr. safety class.

    The gun he used on Martin was taken by the police and they did forensic tests on it. The one he had when he was arrested was obtained by some means after his first one was taken by police the night of the incident.

  150. The detail that still nags me is the position of the body. Zimmerman has said repeatedly that he spread Martin’s arms and held them down after he shot him. But Aruya said that Martin was face down with his hand under him. How did this happen?

  151. Yahoo News: The ex-neighborhood watch volunteer charged with killing Trayvon Martin asked for a new judge Friday, claiming the current one is biased because he said George Zimmerman had “flaunted the system.”
    Zimmerman said in a motion he feared he would be unable to get a fair “stand your ground” hearing or a fair trial with Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester presiding over the case. Lester was appointed in April after Zimmerman claimed a potential conflict of interest with the original judge.

    Earlier this month, Lester said in an order granting Zimmerman bond that Zimmerman had “under any definition … flaunted the system” by failing to disclose at an April bond hearing that he had raised $135,000 from donations for his legal defense.

    Zimmerman’s wife, Shellie, testified at the bond hearing that they had limited resources since she was a student and Zimmerman wasn’t working. Zimmerman said nothing to correct his wife’s testimony.
    Lester at the time allowed Zimmerman to be released on a $150,000 bond. The judge revoked the bond after prosecutors presented jailhouse recordings of Zimmerman instructing his wife on how to transfer funds raised from a website to different bank accounts.

    Zimmerman returned to jail in June but left last week after Lester granted him a $1 million bond, saying state law compelled him to grant bail. In the second bond order, the judge said it appeared Zimmerman was preparing to flee to avoid prosecution based on the money he had raised and his possession of second passport that he had failed to disclose to the court.
    Zimmerman argued that showed bias.

    “The court makes sweeping generalizations about Mr. Zimmerman based on limited information and disregards the evidence that contradicts those conclusions,” Zimmerman said in the motion.

    A spokeswoman for the state attorney’s office said in an email Friday that prosecutors object to the defense motion and will file a formal response early next week.
    A spokeswoman for the judge said he wouldn’t comment Friday but would address the matter later.
    Zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder. He has pleaded not guilty, claiming self-defense.

    Under Florida law, Zimmerman could request a “stand your ground” hearing that would allow him to argue his self-defense case before a judge and without jury. The judge could then either drop the charges or set a trial date.
    “Mr. Zimmerman fears that the court has already decided that he is not worthy of belief regardless of the type of proceeding or the corroborating evidence that would support his testimony,” the motion said.”

    Good luck getting a SYG trial with any judge, George.

  152. Oh probably this attempt to recuse Lester is being done to accomplish one of two results: Either (a) Lester will quite appropriately refuse to recuse himself so that there will be a claim, on appeal, that the judge was being unfair; or (b) O’Mara has bought himself a judge already with the cool $4,000,000 that came into the “numbered accounts” and wants to get rid of Lester so the new judge can give Zimmy a walk.

    Neither one will work at this point. Lester is a straight-shooter (no pun) because he really did NOT know, from on-line extrajudicial sources, that Zimmerman had all that PayPal money; he really DID get lied to and tricked and he quite appropriately pronounced Zimmerman non-credible. So he will not be likely to recuse himself (it would be legally inappropriate to do so at this point) and unless the appellate court is already prepared to undo whatever a jury and/or judge properly do in this case, the lay of the land is already laid as far as the SYG hearing is concerned. Um, that means, uh oh, George. Next time you decide to kill somebody, think about THAT one.

  153. Look at this:

    When I read this guy’s interview I thought there was something very weird about it, even before realizing who he was. There are several interviews in there where you can just TELL they’re trying to get some talking points in about George and this one (and two others) had that quality about them.

    Of course, there are two ways to read the response of the federal agency that says it will not respond to the question of whether he works for them: Either (a) they will not respond because it is their policy to not respond, and/or, (b) they will not respond because/and he DOES NOT WORK FOR THEM BUT IS LYING AGAIN.

  154. I looked at this evidence at the site Shano posted and listed key new information, new to me at least. It looks like the same stuff. The witness stuff is summaries, not the interview itself. There are pages about the previous breakins that I didn’t look at. And there is probably a lot of information about the gun used but it was too technical for the time I wanted to spend trying to decipher it. The “only” violence anyone knew about re; Zimmerman was from his former fiancee. She described domestic abuse and road rage but maybe that doesn’t count. : (

  155. BettyKath, I agree the new stuff is nothing much. One doesn’t have to prove Zimmerman had a propensity for violence if he shot someone to death. The only reason the priors came up in the public discussion of the case was that the police had told Trayvon Martin’s family that Zimmerman was “squeaky clean” when it was pretty obvious that wasn’t true.

    Speaking of which, here’s O’Mara’s motion to recuse Judge Lester:

    O’Mara saying that ordinarily a judge opining that a defendant had no credibility meant the judge was not impartial is incorrect. Generally, a judge who came to such a conclusion from OUTSIDE THE CASE would not be impartial; a judge coming to such a conclusion from the conduct of the defendant IN THE CASE, right before the judge’s eyes and right to the judge’s ears, is NOT an indication that the judge is not impartial; it is an indication that the judge is alive and able to think and come to conclusions. After all, if it is already proven that George Zimmerman LIED then how could any rational judge not think he had lied? So a judge would have to be irrational (like those bloggers who keep saying we shouldn’t draw any conclusions yet because we don’t know all the facts yet) to stay blissfully and ignorantly unaware of a credibility issue with a witness (the defendant himself) who had already lied, and whose lawyer had to give, as reasons for his lies, the conclusions that when he lied he was “frightened, confused and mistrustful.”

    Judges acquiring opinions from within the case are not disqualified by the fact that they are not unaware of what has taken place. If George does get a judge like that, it will probably be his daddy.

  156. Finally listened to all the interviews of George in order.

    In his first interview with Serino, before the “non-criminality of the victim” was known, Zimmerman agreed that he was FOLLOWING Martin. WHy did he shoot him? He HAD TO because Martin was going to disarm and kill him — BUT he agreed he followed.

    Later interviews (after chatting w/Osterman) — he asked for voice-stress test and he said he was NOT FOLLOWING but looking for a street sign. INSISTED he was NOT FOLLOWING. over and over.

  157. Good luck convincing a jury of that George. No one in their right mind is going to believe that he wasn’t following Martin.

  158. Oh dear, Malisha, Gweorge engages in behavior right up your alley. Special prosecutor Angela Corey just released more than 120 recorded phone calls that murder suspect George Zimmerman made from the Seminole County Jail.

    STORY: What A Surprise! Zimmerman’s Old Girlfriend Says He’s Biased Against Black People

    Also released is the statement of “Witness 9,” a woman who says Zimmerman is prejudiced against blacks and that he molested her when she was a child.

    Witness 9 recounted the molestation claims in graphic detail. She says Zimmerman molested her as a child, starting at age 6:

    “He would put his hands under my pants, under my underwear. He would put his pants under my underwear…basically…****** me…”

    She continued:

    “He would say we weren’t doing anything, just playing hide/seek…I was a kid, didn’t know any better…He just got this look in his eye like he was going to.”

    Witness 9 seems to be related to Zimmerman and is about 2 years younger.

    She goes into more detail:

    “We would all play in front of TV…he would reach under blankets/try to do things & I would try to push him off.”

    Witness 9 also contends that there is one more victim:

    “There is one more victim, but she will deny it ..says she doesn’t want to talk about it.”

    When the conversation turned to Zimmerman and black people, Witness 9 said:

    “Zimmerman’s family “don’t like black people if they don’t act like white people.”

    Witness 9 went on to say that the last molestation by Zimmerman started as “massage,” and moved to touching and kissing and that’s when she ran away.

    Witness 9 says her parents confronted Zimmerman about molestation at restaurant and he said-

    “I’m sorry and just got up and walked out.”

    According to witness 9 the molestation went on from the age of 6-16 while Zimmerman was 8-18.

    If Zimmerman takes stand in trial, witness 9 could be rebuttal witness to show he has a violent history. Molestation charges may not be allowed.

    Asked why she come forward, witness 9 said in the midst of Trayvon’s death, she was no longer afraid of Zimmerman.

    Zimmerman’s defense attorney, Mark O’Mara filed a motion this morning, hoping to stay release of Witness 9 statements. You can read the motion by clicking here.

    This latest evidence sheds more light onto what type of man Zimmerman was before he shot and killed Trayvon Martin on February 26th.

    Read more:

  159. Actually, I don’t think an 8-year-old acting out sexually with/on a six-year-old is sexual abuse by definition, but it was aggressive and bad behavior and should have been dealt with and corrected. More importantly, since the media indulged in “thuggizing” Trayvon Martin because of childhood behaviors that were not criminal, this indicates that the sword can slash both ways and the Zimmerman camp ought to take notice of that general principle.

  160. Shano, I get it. I’m just observing that it’s alleged bad behavior and never led to criminal sanctions, much like the various peccadillos they “charged” Trayvon Martin with. Prior bad acts cannot be used as evidence in a criminal trial anyway, unless it’s a contempt trial against a mother or something like that where there is no pretense of due process involved.

  161. I’m catching up after being 3 weeks in a place where the only net around is to help keep mosquitoes away.

    I watched the early interviews and Stress Test videos before I left, but never had time to comment much on them.

    The Stress Test
    Nine questions:

    Three “Irrelevant” questions – No stress, benign

    Three “Control” questions – What you look like when you do lie. Is the colour of the wall green?

    Three “Relevant” questions
    1. In fear for you life when you shot the guy?
    2. Did you call him the guy, or the kid?
    3. Did you confront the guy you shot?

    None of the Relevant questions seemed to be at all searching.
    (1) Zimmerman could well have felt great fear in the final seconds. He was losing a fight. He was the one that was meant to be in control.
    The question asks absolutely nothing about the wider circumstances in which the shot was fired.
    (2) Never got asked
    (3) Zimmerman is probably convinced that Martin asking “Why are you following me?” was confrontational. The question is meaningless as it entirely depends on Zimmerman’s internal definition.

    Disregarding the question of whether or not such tests are reliable even when conducted fully and sanely, the only outcome of this one appears to be some indicator of whether Zimmerman just shot Martin because he could or because he absolutely believed that he was about to die.

    There are all sorts of questions that could and should have been asked.

  162. The administrator went to great lengths to put Z at ease. He also told him what to think about when he was supposed to lie.

    As nal posted way up,

    Does VSA actually work?

    According to a recent study funded by the National Institute of Justice (NIJ), two of the most popular VSA programs in use by police departments across the country are NO BETTER THAN FLIPPING A COIN when it comes to detecting deception regarding recent drug use. The study’s findings also noted, however, that the mere presence of a VSA program during an interrogation may deter a respondent from giving a false answer.

    [emphasis added by me]

  163. SlingTrebuchet – where on planet earth is the Internet not available at least by dialup or satellite? Just asking…

    Vsa is worthless as a lie detector. It is best to detect stress as its acronym suggests. The Vsa operator was obviously feed biased questions as everybody at SPD knows GZ as he was personal friend of Bill Lee, has many powerful friends, and had applied to become a SPD officer.

    Chris Serino despises GZ but can’t show it for obvious reasons. Chris is one of the good ones. Tim Smith and Bill are not IMO.

    I mentioned before that REAL high-tech deception mitigation systems use EEG not voice or physiology. I vaguely remember DARPA calling it a Squid in early days. They look for brain wave changes when exposed to multimedia stimulus while being asked probing questions.

    Therefore GZ was given softball questions with a device that is used basically to help investigators to formulate opinions about the suspect NOT facts or truth.

    Omara is really reaching on trying to make judge Lester recuse himself. It ain’t gonna happen unless someone removes him.

    Malisha where is this $4mill??

  164. I don’t think George Zimmerman has to be a racist to be guilty of murder; I don’t even think he had to have committed a racist act on 2/26/2012 to be guilty of murder. Furthermore, it’s BETTER if he is not “a racist” so that the crime is simply the crime he committed, not something based on ideas that may be iffy.

    Furthermore, the allegations of his behavior as a child is not an indication of child sexual abuse; it is an indication of bullying. Persistant and unremitting bullying of a younger weaker person…hmmmm…

  165. sonofthunderboanerges,

    The timeline you quote above is woefully inaccurate. The officer who compiled it does not understand Event Logs – or something

    In a timeline included in evidence documents released week of May 14th, Sanford police spelled out down to the second, what happened the night George Zimmerman fatally shot Trayvon Martin, based on time-stamped calls to their dispatch center.

    It shows Zimmerman fired 1 minute, 57 seconds after he hung up.

    Note: 1900 hours is 7:00 PM

    1911:12 – Call received from George Zimmerman reporting suspicious person


    19:11:12 is the ‘Created’ timestamp of the operator making the first entry after listening to Zimmerman describe reason for the call.

    The call actually connected at 19:09:34

    The original Event Log can be viewed at
    Note the Connection Time of 19:09:34
    Note that the opening event in the History is 19:11:12 – This includes a summary of Zimmerman’s initial description, which the operator would have to type. The ‘Created’ timestamp is taken for the operator completing the first entry.


    The call lasted for 4 minutes and 7 seconds
    – Confirmed by timing the recording and by the Event Log timestamp of 19:13:41 in which the operator records Zimmerman’s closing request to have the incoming patrol call him – rather than meet at the mailboxes.


    The first 911 call connected at 19:16:11
    This is 2 minutes 30 seconds after the call ended.

    If Zimmerman is to believed, it took him over 2 minutes to walk 94 feet.

    The effect of Sanford PD’s completely invented timeline is to distract from the clear indisputable automatically recorded evidence that Zimmerman
    a) Decided in the closing seconds of the call to go wandering rather than return to his truck (that he should not have left in the first place)
    b) Had been wandering for over 2 minutes before he found/encountered Martin.

  166. Malisha: “Furthermore, the allegations of his behavior as a child is not an indication of child sexual abuse; it is an indication of bullying.”

    He never grew out of this bullying trait either. The story of the ME work colleague points the same way.
    It’s nothing to do with sex or race. It’s all to do with using whatever means are available to assert power of others.

  167. Here’s a little piece of Florida recusal law:

    “The fact that the judge has made adverse rulings in the past against the defendant, or that the judge has previously heard the evidence, or ‘allegations that the trial judge had formed a fixed opinion of the defendant’s guilt, even where it is alleged that the judge discussed his opinion with others,’ are generally considered legally insufficient reasons to warrant the judge’s disqualification.” Rivera v. State, 717 So.2d 477, 481 (Fla.1998) (quoting Jackson, 599 So.2d at 107).

    And that’s a judge deciding ahead of time about a defendant’s GUILT, not just deciding ahead of time about a defendant’s CREDIBILITY. In fact, deciding that a defendant is a liar does not have an absolute causal relationship to ANYTHING having to do with a defendant’s guilt or innocence, since a defendant is not required to testify in his own trial. All the credibility issue before Judge Lester will do is affect whether or not O’Mara can help Zimmerman AVOID a jury of his peers. If he were to convince Judge Lester that everything he said (in the second and third Serino interviews, but NOT in the FIRST) was true, he could get out scott free without having to stand trial. But if he can’t do that, Judge Lester’s opinion of his credibility is not relevant to his due process at trial.

    See, O’Mara’s best chance is still to get some kind of judge in there who’s gonna say, “Well, everything George Zimmerman says MUST BE TRUE so we don’t need to deal with the rest of the law at all; he can just walk because he says he didn’t do wrong.”

    I doubt there is a criminal anywhere in the country who wouldn’t like to have that “law” in place with a friendly judge when he stands accused.

  168. Speaking of the woeful standards of SPD….

    Has anyone ever found a *witnessed* position for Zimmerman’s truck immediately after the shooting?
    One might have assumed that police would have checked out vehicles in the area.
    One might also have assumed that they would do a door-to-door to determine what vehicles were moving inside the gates at the time.

    Does anyone know who moved the truck from wherever it was – and when?
    His wife?
    Most probably not Taffe, if he’s indicating a position by hearsay afterwards?

    Taffe indicated that it was on the North side of Twin Trees and facing the clubhouse. He says that Zimmerman told him this.

    That position and orientation appears to be confirmed by examining security videos from the Clubhouse.
    – bottom part of
    That analysis also indicates weird stuff like Zimmerman on foot at the clubhouse – and not parked there at all.
    I’ll try make time to go through that material.

    If the Clubhouse video can reliably stand up a position, it would be interesting to run that plus Mirandas by whoever says they moved the truck afterwards.

    It’s not really a big deal. There are enough major discrepancies between the non-E call recording and Zimmerman’s stories to shoot his credibility.
    An actual location would be interesting though.

  169. Malisha – I think we are AGAIN being graced by visiting expert like our other friends – who for some reason are strangely mute recently. Sling seems to have the chops for this stuff. And you know that observation is not just fluff coming from me.

    Sling you are doing a great job… I’m really impressed!

  170. Malisha – I’m saying “racial” because that’s the mandate of FBI’s operation here. SAIC Ibison can only bring federal charges on GZ if he can prove GZ violated TM’s civil rights. So far I have seen many red flags that GZ in fact did racially profile TM. With the suspected added evidence that he had an accomplice (Taaffe) it appears that it is a foregone conclusion that USAG Holder has enough to move forward. However, it makes sense that they will wait on Ms. Corey to see what she has first. I think Holder would like to pile on AFTER the other shoe drops on GZ. Just my opinion…

  171. NEWSFLASH: George Zimmerman and O’Mara will appear on Sean Hannity tonight to do their talking points and to say over and over how George has credibility and how he tutored little black kids and how he had a broken nose and Trayvon Martin attacked him and he was just looking for an address and he never hid money and the judge ain’t fair and the racists are profiling him as a kidkiller and his cousin is a little liar and he loves his wife and he felt like his head was exploding and he had a broken nosey wosey!

    Did I miss any of his talking points? Fill me in quick if I did…

  172. Here’s more from SHOCKING REVELATION! Fox News Host Sean Hannity Offered To Pay George Zimmerman’s Legal Fees!:

    Yesterday, the Special Prosecutor in the George Zimmerman case released 149 jail house phone calls that Mr. Zimmerman made while being held on bail in April of this year in Seminole County Jail. Last night, GlobalGrind scoured through all of them, trying to decipher the coded language that George uses in his conversations with his family and close friends.

    In call #30, from April 14th (3 days after being arrested), George is speaking to one his closest friends and confidantes, “Scott.” As reported by many of our colleagues in the press, including the Miami Herald this morning, George mentions to Scott that his attorney Mark O’Mara is aware of an attempted transfer of $37,000 from his PayPal account to Zimmerman’s wife’s personal account. This would be big enough news in the case, as Mr. Zimmerman was sent back to jail after being released on his first bond for not disclosing the amount of money he had raised for his legal defense fund. Furthermore, Mr. O’Mara admitted in court that he did not know anything about the attempted transfers, but with this new evidence being made public, it seems that the attorney was in the know.

    However, as we listened to the rest of the call, what struck us as odd was George’s comments about a gentleman, who he calls “SH,” who offered to pay for his entire legal defense, as long as he uses an attorney, who George calls “JB.” In a previous call (#24), George reveals to his wife, Shellie, that “JB” is Jose Baez, who represented Casey Anthony (this was also confirmed to GlobalGrind by Miami Herald reporter, Frances Robles). However, the person who offered to pay for his legal fees, “SH” is only identified in code.

    More there with transcripts of the phone recordings and from the end of the article:

    George Zimmerman decided not to use Jose Baez as his attorney and stuck with Mark O’Mara. We do not know if Sean Hannity is funding Mr. Zimmerman’s legal defense with Mr. O’Mara at the helm. We reached out to Mr. Hannity for comment and are awaiting a response.

  173. Excerpt:

    George Zimmerman and his wife Shellie were balling out! It was revealed in court documents that the couple spent almost $36,000 of donation money in only 18 days while he was in jail.

    With the funds donated, Zimmerman and his wife spent $6,500 on Internet and phone bills, new cell phones for $300 each, paid off a year-long Verizon contract in full, installed a telephone landline for $2,500, spent $1,300 on a two-year AT&T Wi-Fi contract and paid off at least $7,000 in credit card bills.


    They used $4,378 on automotive expenses, making payments on two car loans while renting another for more than $1,500. Gas: $800.

    Zimmerman paid off a $3,000 loan to his parents, paid $5,000 for bond, spent $800 at the jail commissary and $600 on jailhouse calling cards. The couple spent about $1,300 on food and $400 on utilities and $1,900 on rent.

    Read more:

  174. On the Hannity thing:

    If anyone was expecting a sympathetic approach from Fox / Hannity, they might be surprised.

    O’Mara was walking a tightrope between getting some PR and exposing Zimmerman to unwelcome questions.
    Hannity asks some searching questions, but either not enough or O’Mara had them pulled or had stopped Zimmerman.

    The interview is interesting in that it indicates the line that O’Mara would take.
    They have had time to work things out and try to fit a narrative into the recorded calls and interviews.

    Zimmerman absolutely not following.
    Zimmerman not being intimidated or worried by Martin – no danger in him “not following” into that dark area.
    “Hand in his waistband” was just a bluff on the part of Martin. Somehow, Zimmerman knew this at the time.
    Zimmerman can not be seen to be doing anything inadvisable.
    Zimmerman absolutely not running. Walking only. Running might imply following or urgency in tracking Martin.
    Walking puts Zimmerman firmly in Twin Trees at “We don’t need you to do that.” It also messes with the background noises heard.

    Another feature now is that Zimmerman says that Martin never ran.
    It’s important that Martin was not running, as this might indicate that he had some reason to be fearful of Zimmerman.

    HANNITY: — trying to maybe get into the mind-set, because we also have learned that Trayvon was speaking with his girlfriend supposedly at the time — that maybe he was afraid of you, didn’t know who you were?
    HANNITY: You don’t think — why do you think that he was running then?
    ZIMMERMAN: Maybe I said running, but he was more —
    HANNITY: You said he’s running.
    ZIMMERMAN: Yes. He was like skipping, going away quickly. But he wasn’t running out of fear.
    HANNITY: You could tell the difference?
    ZIMMERMAN: He wasn’t running.
    HANNITY: So he wasn’t actually running?
    ZIMMERMAN: No, sir.
    HANNITY: OK. Because that’s what you said to the dispatcher, that you thought he was running.

    “He’s running” and “He ran” just mean that he just sort of moved a bit quicker than a normal walk. This is just the same as “Yes (I’m following)” does not mean following.
    Let’s be clear about this. Zimmerman did nothing that might make Martin worried or fearful. Martin was not fearful. Zimmerman says so. He’s can’t imagine why Martin would have been alarmed or fearful.
    …. eh.. no wait! Doesn’t that mean that all those people who banged on about “If Martin was worried he should have run home” – have been stabbed in the back by Zimmerman.

    A biggie is

    HANNITY: How long was it, George, after that, that you saw Trayvon again? Because you said you stopped, that you did not continue pursuing him. When did you next see Trayvon Martin?
    ZIMMERMAN: Less than 30 seconds.

    This is rather stunning.
    O’Mara wants a story in which Zimmerman was not following and was not hanging around.
    Zimmerman is saying 30 seconds (Maximum!) , which leaves 2 minutes (Minimum!) unaccounted for between the call ending and the first 911 connecting.
    If we believe the 30 seconds, then the fight had been going on for nearly 2 minutes before anyone noticed the noises.
    It’s also odd that Zimmerman insists that he never went more than about 100 feet from his truck. That would mean going no further than the T-junction.
    He’s trying give an impression of not wandering, but is overplaying that.
    The distance from the end of the path on Retreat View Circle – where he says he went – to his truck is about 250 feet.
    A reasonable person would ask why he did not go North between the houses to get a far more accurate house number on RTC. That walk would have been absolutely safe from bumping into or being ambushed by the (now unseen) suspect and would have been..100 feet. I wonder if this aspect is what has him claiming that an actual 250 feet is not greater than an asserted 100 feet?

    I really don’t see how Zimmerman’s account can stand up under proper questioning.
    The times in the calls are indisputable.
    If he had never made the non-Emergency call, he would be in a far better position.
    I named my blog “Zimmerman’s Call” for a very good reason. It was clear to me that this is an unchallengeable measure of everything he said afterwards.

  175. Zimmerman’s face betrayed the contempt he had for others, anyone who doesn’t see things his way (the media, who think “following” means following, the people who think he shouldn’t have gotten out of his truck and shot an unarmed teen, etc.) — a little smile and a chuckling, dismissive, smirking comment, “Nosir, I wasn’t” is all he has for them — they just got it all wrong and should apologize.

    My favorite George Zimmerman line from the Hannity interview:

    “If I did something wrong I would apologize for it” (referring to the idea that Al Sharpton should apologize to HIM).

    ZIMMERMAN knew that Trayvon Martin wasn’t scared of HIM. He has the nerve to say that.

    Zimmerman also said something very peculiar: from what the investigators TOLD HIM, he realizes that Trayvon Martin knew that Zimmerman had been on the phone with the police already, and THAT was the motivation for Trayvon Martin to be trying to block Zimmerman’s mouth and prevent him from screaming “HELP” so that the police could find him and save him. Also, he didn’t realize Martin was dead until an hour after he arrived at the police station. Hmmmmmm.

  176. I think O’Mara made a “net calculated mistake” when he took George Z on the air. NOT because he couldn’t benefit from the surge in donations from the Hannity-folks, and NOT because more Republicans won’t be supporting this very devout godly man who coudl not question god’s plan for him to shoot a “punk” that night, but because now, the prosecutors will study this tape more and more to see how it is possible to question George (on cross-examination) in such a way that his contemptuous, disdainful, stupid attitudes can be exploited to make him turn ANY JURY against him while he’s got his big, pompous, self-important, cowardly, lying, unintelligent, smirky, “please slap me until I shut up” mouth open.

  177. oh yea, Martin was skipping merrily on his way tra la la. Not running. And George was looking for an address, not following or stalking this teen. Not in his car, not on foot.

    God has a plan for George and it may not be the plan George thinks it will be. If I heard the outline of this story, and some murderer stated it was “Gods plan” for him to shoot any person who was minding their own business in every legal sense of the word, that would be a huge black mark. it would make me think that person needs some psychiatric examination.
    Maybe they will go with the “I was abused and not responsible because of mental incompetence’. After they lose the SYG claim and have to face a jury.

  178. Zimmerman’s public statements are not under oath but I assume they are fair game in a cross examine or in any submissions by the prosecution, as in the public statements made by the attorney that were referred to in the objection to the recusel request

  179. Last week the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement released an exhaustively researched study, “The Report on the Extrajudicial Killing of Black People,” that proved that every 40 hours since the murder of Trayvon Martin, there has been an extrajudicial killing of a Black person.

    This week the hashtag #Every40Hours had to be edited to #Every36Hours once the 10 people killed the past seven days were factored in.

    The report frames the crisis as a “human rights” one, arguing that Black people are “without sanctuary in the United State.” The term extrajudicial is used to include security guards and neighborhood watch types, whether they are deputized by the police or only dangerous “self-appointed” law enforcers, like Martin’s killer, George Zimmerman.

    Given New York’s well-reported Stop and Frisk policy, recently defended by Mayor Bloomberg, it’s no surprise that the city leads the country in the number of killings, with 9 in the past six months.

    The report points out that the anticipated post-election spike in inter-racial violence, namely, non-Black on Black violence, was in fact, realized.

    The Malcolm X Grassroots Movement is a national human rights organization who focuses on racial justice. Their call to action includes organizing the Black community for its own self-defense and building a “broad, mass movement capable of forcing the government to enact transformative legislation based on our demands. The fundamental transformative demand must be for a National Plan of Action for Racial Justice to eliminate institutional racism and advance the struggle for self-determination.” While the language seems from another era, so do the facts.

    These killings, almost a quarter of them of mentally challenged and many more of unarmed individuals, often teens, are shocking. Not least of all because before this report, they’d never been connected nor covered by mainstream media.

  180. Shano, good work, thank you for posting that study.

    We have all known that — but we have not had the data on it. When the victim is a “throw-away” the whole system fails. Only Sharpton and Jackson made sure Trayvon Martin was not simply another “throw-away.”

    The fact that Zimmerman continued to call Martin “the Suspect” even after killing him shows the mindset. Zimmerman still looked upon himself as the “good guy” and he “got” the “bad guy.”

  181. The objection to the recusal motion:

  182. BettyKath: Thanks for letting us know that — I’ll double my own HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

    He claimed that he was not sorry he got out of the car, not sorry he carried the loaded gun, and didn’t really know Trayvon Martin was dead until about an hour after he got to the station house!

    His credibility is GONE. Gone with the WIND. Gone with the wind that made all that huffing and puffing noise on his non-emergency call to the cops. Bye bye bye…..

  183. He might not have known that Martin was dead until later. After he was cuffed he was taken to the police car while the cops did CPR.

  184. BettyKath, I’ll allow that it was possible, but highly unlikely, because Martin was pronounced while the cops were still on the scene. By the time they were in the station house, it is clear that the cops, at least, knew that Martin was dead.

    What he was saying in the Hannity interview, though, departed from his prior stories. He had said: (1) that he shot Martin who then said “you got me” and fell back and that he was STILL STRUGGLING while Zimmerman had to restrain him and spread out his hands; and (2) that he GOT ON TOP OF MARTIN because he was not sure he had been adequately restrained (why not stand up with the gun in his hand and back up while aiming?); and (3) that he wasn’t sure he hit him at all.

    Obviously, if he wasn’t sure he hit him at all, then he would have to still fear this kid who had once subdued him and nearly killed him after hiding in the bushes. This might be just another TRICK! He might be playing dead so that he could leap up and finish the murderous job he had started, right?

    As Zimmerman gets farther and farther into his stories/excuses, more and more impossibilities emerge from his tangled web.

  185. Also, isn’t it strange that George Zimmerman is not asking the cops, “Is he dead? Is he going to be all right? Will he live?” while he’s being driven down to the station house?

    What manner of person is this George Zimmerman?

  186. Zimmerman was handled by Smith who took him directly to the car. The EMTs might have arrived while Zimmerman was being moved to the car. The EMTs relieved the cops doing CPR, hooked up the monitor, found Martin to be flat lined, picked up their stuff and went to Zimmerman who was sitting in the police car. Why did Zimmerman not ask about Martin? Good question.
    The position of the body still bothers me. It was either Zimmerman or a witness who said that Martin was on his back with the back of his hands in the grass. But he was found laying face down. Zimmerman says that Zimmerman spread Martins hands out to hold him down. But Martin was found by the second cop on the scene face down with his hands under him. If Zimmerman is telling the truth, how did Martin’s hands end up under him? If he is lying, why? Is this supposed to be good police procedure to spread-eagle the suspect and Z wants to look good to the cops?
    Wish the cop in the room with him while he was waiting to take the voice stress test had continued the conversation:

    Did you ever have to shoot someone/fire your weapon (can’t remember exactly what he asked her)


    Yea, I wouldn’t question your authority.

    Unasked question: Did Martin question your authority?

    She was probably “just” babysitting. Maybe wasn’t supposed to ask him questions. I don’t know the procedure.

  187. George Zimmerman relaunched his personal website on the same day that he gave his first media interview about his shooting of Trayvon Martin.

    On the site,, the second-degree murder defendant wrote a letter to his supporters and asked them to donate to his defense fund, which he said is nearly depleted.

    “This has been the most difficult time of my life. I have been charged and arrested for murder, I have been accused of being a racist, and my family and I have to live in hiding because of threats against my life. I am not a murderer, and I am not a racist,” Zimmerman wrote.

    Zimmerman, 28, has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder in the shooting of Martin, 17, of Miami Gardens. He claims self-defense.


    Zimmerman Case Evidence

    The George Zimmerman
    Case in Photos: April
    More Photos and Videos
    Zimmerman told Fox News’ Sean Hannity in an interview that aired Wednesday night that he had never heard of Florida’s Stand Your Ground law before the Feb. 26 incident in Sanford. His attorney Mark O’Mara told Hannity that he plans to use Stand Your Ground in his defense of Zimmerman.

    Zimmerman wrote that “Rumors and lies about the case and me are rampant on the Internet,” so he created his website to give him a place to set the record straight.

    “This is not my website, this is our website,” he told supporters. “I am going to use this as a chance to communicate with you and listen to you, and as an opportunity to share important things about the case.”

    A note at the top of the site also says “George Zimmerman and the case against him has been grossly misrepresented in the media.”

    Zimmerman said his website is also a place where he can gather donations for his defense fund, which he said has the lowest amount of money in it since it was formed.

    Zimmerman initially set up in the days before his April 11 arrest, but it was disabled later in April.

    A spokesman for the O’Mara Law Group told NBC 6 that Zimmerman asked to relaunch his website and O’Mara allowed it. It relaunched on Wednesday.

    Zimmerman is responsible for the site, and the hope is it will raise awareness and help drive donations to the defense fund, according to the spokesman. Zimmerman will contribute to it infrequently, he said.

    Zimmerman said in a video posted on his site later on Thursday, however, that “I’ll be frequently updating this website, so check back often, and spread the word to your family and friends.”

    He reiterated his message in the video, thanking his supporters in English and Spanish.

    O’Mara and his team already have a robust website,, and associated social media accounts that advocate for Zimmerman online. Links on both and connect to, the official site for Zimmerman’s legal defense fund.

    Trayvon Martin’s Parents: Shooting Not God’s Plan

    Zimmerman is living in hiding with his family after being released on bond for a second time recently.

    He wrote that his family’s security needs have been extremely high, and that his defense fund has been devastated by almost $50,000 in security expenses and the $100,000 that was paid to a bondsman to release him from jail.

    “The skyrocketing legal costs have gone unpaid,” he added.

    He closed his letter to supporters by relaying his and his family’s gratitude.

    “Thank you for your generosity and your support in the past. We need your help again. It is only through your support that we have come this far and I’m learning there is a long way to go,” Zimmerman concludes. “Once again, I humbly thank you.”

  188. If folks see what happened to $35,000 the first time around I have to wonder how many will be enthusiastic to continue to support him financially.
    See my post here at 1, July 19, 2012 at 1:46 am

  189. “So now here comes a scarily blank George Zimmerman telling Hannity no, sir, he doesn’t regret anything in the murder of Trayvon Martin – he wouldn’t do anything different and he didn’t follow him and he’s not a bad guy and hey it was just God’s plan that he shoot down an unarmed teenager. The Martin family’s lawyer had the second-best response to this display of unimaginable hubris, cluelessness, arrogance and lack of any whisper of moral accountability: “Just … unbelievable.” Trayvon’s father Tracy had the best: “We must worship a different God.”

    Amy Zimet

  190. Why is O’Mara allowing his client to “testify” on Sean Hannity when he would not allow him to do so in open court? Because he is trying to tamper with the jury IMO. He also is, what is called in “pool”, setting up his next shot. He needs contingency plans. If he can’t get a judge recusal, change of venue, a hung jury, etc. he will go for diminished capacity based on his client’s insane comments on Sean Hannity.

  191. (continuing)
    All good contingency planners who are sneaky lawyers like O’Mara have already (or will when formed) planted a shill in the jury to manipulate the other jurors. I think its based on THE RUNAWAY JURY. Read this essay by John Grisham about how its done (by tobacco industry):

    O’Mara is not going anywhere just as long as he knows that the PayPal money gambit is guaranteed payment. It beats dunning the client for payment later. Also beats chasing ambulances too.

  192. Shano – Watching the Youtube video you posted watch GZ’s “tells” (body language) at around 03:35 in the timestamp. He blinks too much, shakes his head NO when making an ‘affirmative’ statement (IOW “…even I don’t believe what I’m presently saying…”), and looks to his left (your right) – since GZ is left-handed this MAY mean he was constructing an auditory memory he NEVER heard.

    Wow GZ and O’Mara are really lying to the wrong people huh?

    Source: “Frogs into Princes: Neuro Linguistic Programming” – Richard Bandler and John Grinder.

  193. Re: Zimmerman having to get a house number for the SPD dispatcher? First there are only THREE streets at RATL. GZ lived there for 3 years mostly as the self-appointed Neighborhood Watch captain (who should know the lay of the land like the back of his hand – right?). His sister-in-law lives on Twin Trees (same last name). Now here’s the BIGGIE… all RATL townhouses have reflective address labels on BOTH sides – front and back! He had a WORKING flashlight as a neighbor’s cell-phone video proves. He lied and said it was dead. Can you spell PATHOLOGICAL LIAR?

    O’Mara is not grimacing every time his client’s open’s his mouth. Why? Because it’s part of his strategy IMO…

  194. Shano, I suspect that Gretchen’s top is so tight because she has put on a few pounds and hasn’t had a chance to go shopping. She probably hopes to get the weight off without buying a new wardrobe. (I’ve been there). The dress looks to be a size too small.

  195. SonofThunder, SH — as Safety Handler — could also be Mark Osterman. At this point, however, ANYBODY could be receiving money for “expenses” of George and O’Mara; they can be deferred payments, they can be laundered, any number of ways to handle the thing. Not to worry. Now he doesn’t need to use code any more.

    BUT the interview was designed to get Zimmerman to give a non-cross-examinable story out to his “side” so they could do as much for him pending resolution as possible, both financially and otherwise.

    The issue is how to get public opinion on his side enough to make it possible to plea bargain this out without the whole thing exploding again. Lester may want to do the whole trial thing and get a fully legal-litigated conclusion or he may just be doing his job and not care one way or the other, but I believe BOTH Corey AND O’Mara want a plea rather than a trial. More pro-Zim publicity that is information-free and skinhead-friendly will mean more possibility of a light-sentence plea bargain.

    Frankly, I think a good prosecutor can make so much hay out of what Zimmerman did at the interview that if there were going to be a trial, one could easily say that O’Mara had provided ineffective assistance of counsel simply by allowing his client to open his damn fool mouth. But then again, “ineffective assistance of counsel” is a way out on a federal habeas corpus if all else is lost…I mean, do you think people would really be that devious as to plan to mess up so they could get the guy off on a constitutional case four years down the road? That would be pretty devious, wouldn’t it…hmmmmm, I wonder.

  196. Malisha – OK I can see what your saying… FYI I got the SAFETY COUNSELOR (aka handler) thing from his first recorded conversation with Shellie in where he was talking about the SH suggesting that the safe house be a hotel at Sanford International Airport. Mark being an AIR MARSHAL would have not suggested that as it conflicts with Judge Lester’s order to stay away from SIA – or at least common sense by not having it appear that GZ, his best friend, was going to ‘bounce’. That would also get him in trouble with his bosses at TSA. Mark seems law-abiding because he did talk GZ into turning himself in. I don’t relegate Mark to the same level of creepiness that I do with Frank. So far I find no obvious criminality with Mark. Frank is a whole other kettle of fish…

    For O’Mara to set up an “incompetence” future scenario would be a blemish on his professional track record and would not end in a mistrial but only a re-assignment of counsel.

    In my opinion Angela can not benefit from considering a plea bargain as she sits in a position of strength right now. GZ running off at the mouth is only adding fodder for her prosecution strategy. Also USAG Eric Holder is waiting in the wings to drop the other shoe on GZ when Angela lays her cards on the table at trial.

    IMO if GZ keeps this up Judge Lester may issue a gag order and this yada yada yada will stop PDQ. But that would impact BOTH sides which also may be O’Mara’s strategy too. I also think this yada stuff may also help O’Mara in some way on appeal… but that part is not extremely clear at this point.

    Just my opinion…

  197. Bettykath – IMO “yes” he would have to. However, Judge Lester is so pissed off with GZ and O’Mara right now he would reject it in it’s entirety and press on if Angela presented it right now. I really think Malisha is right when she said a while back that GZ’s only self-preservation move is to try and escape and be an international fugitive (paraphrasing of course).

    I think that breakdown of what he did with the PayPal money earlier leaves out the purchases he made (or will make) on the ‘black-market’ down in Miami. He would need to shake his knuckle-dragging baby-sitters (known and unknown ones), fool/remove the GPS device, and arrange exfiltration transportation (pilot, boat, or plane). With the narco-trade in South Florida and the “new mob”** (Russians and Japanese) hanging about… he has plenty of black-market options… He won’t need a passport for that just lotsa’ dinero (no problemo’ – (LOL))…

    I think Raúl Castro (i.e. Cuba) would welcome GZ and Shellie. It seems that the FBI knows that Raúl is harboring many US fugitives at this time*. Why? Your guess is as good as mine.

    Source: *John Miller – CBS News (ex ODNI and FBI)

    ** “new mob”: When John Gotti died in 2002 the old mob seemed to be replaced by new ones: Russians (ex-KGB) and Yakuza. Source: FBI(dot)gov

  198. Zimmerman’s problem, now, is that anybody who sees him has every reason to be terrified for their life and therefore has reason to stand their ground. He’s a scary dude. He might think somebody was suspicious. He might do something he didn’t regret. He might think god had another plan, for Chrissake — anything could happen. Wow, scary. And if you look “boo” at him he gets scared and shoots you, while getting capillary lacerations.

    George Michael Zimmerman was born in 1983 to Robert Zimmerman Sr. & Gladys Mesa, the 3rd of 4 children. Robert Zimmerman Sr. was a U.S. Army veteran who served in Vietnam in 1970, and was stationed at Fort Myer in Arlington, Virginia, in 1975 with Gladys Mesa’s brother George Mesa. George Zimmerman Sr. also served two tours in Korea, and spent the final 10 years of his 22-year military career in the Pentagon, working for the DoD.

    Robert and Gladys met in January 1975, when George Mesa brought along his army buddy to his sister’s birthday party. She was visiting from Peru, on vacation from her job there as a physical education teacher. Robert was a Baptist, Gladys was Catholic. They soon married, in a Catholic ceremony in Alexandria, and moved to nearby Manassas VA.

    Gladys came to lead a small but growing Catholic Hispanic enclave within the All Saints Catholic Church parish in the late 1970s, where she was involved in the church’s outreach programs. Gladys would bring young George along with her on “home visits” to poor families.

    “It was part of their upbringing to know that there are people in need, people more in need than themselves” said a Peruvian immigrant who lived with the Zimmermans for a time.

    The friend recalls evening prayers before dinner in the ethnically diverse Zimmerman household, which included siblings Robert Jr., Grace, and Dawn. “It wasn’t only white or only Hispanic or only black – it was mixed,” she said.

    Zimmerman’s maternal grandmother, Cristina, who had lived with the Zimmermans since 1978, worked as a babysitter for years during Zimmerman’s childhood. For several years she cared for two African-American girls who ate their meals at the Zimmerman house and went back and forth to school each day with the Zimmerman children.

    “They were part of the household for years, until they were old enough to be on their own,” the friend said.

    Zimmerman served as an altar boy at All Saints from age 7 to 17, church members said.

    “He wasn’t the type where, you know, ‘I’m being forced to do this,’ and a dragging-his-feet Catholic,” said Sandra Vega, who went to high school with George and his siblings. “He was an altar boy for years, and then worked in the rectory too. He has a really good heart.”

    George grew up bilingual, and by age 10 he was often called to the Haydon Elementary School principal’s office to act as a translator between administrators and immigrant parents. At 14 he became obsessed with becoming a Marine, a relative said, joining the after-school ROTC program at Grace E. Metz Middle School and polishing his boots by night. At 15, he worked three part-time jobs – in a Mexican restaurant, for the rectory, and washing cars – on nights and weekends, to save up for a car.

    After graduating from Osbourn High School in 2001, Zimmerman moved to Lake Mary, Florida, a town neighboring Sanford. His parents purchased a retirement home there in 2002, in part to bring Cristina, who suffers from arthritis, to a warmer climate.

    On his own at 18, GZ got a job at an insurance agency and began to take classes at night to earn a license to sell insurance. He grew friendly with a real estate agent named Lee Ann Benjamin, who shared office space in the building, and later her husband, John Donnelly, a Sanford attorney.

    “George impressed me right off the bat as just a real go-getter,” Donnelly said. “He was working days and taking all these classes at night, passing all the insurance classes, not just for home insurance, but auto insurance and everything. He wanted to open his own office – and he did.”

    In 2004, Zimmerman partnered with an African-American friend and opened up an Allstate insurance satellite office, Donnelly said.

    Then came 2005, and a series of troubles. Zimmerman’s business failed, he was arrested, and he broke off an engagement with a woman who filed a restraining order against him.

    That July, Zimmerman was charged with resisting arrest, violence, and battery of an officer after shoving an undercover alcohol-control agent who was arresting an under-age friend of Zimmerman’s at a bar. He avoided conviction by agreeing to participate in a pre-trial diversion program that included anger-management classes.

    In August, Zimmerman’s fiancee at the time, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman reciprocated with his own order on the same grounds, and both orders were granted. The relationship ended.

    In 2007 he married Shellie Dean, a licensed cosmetologist, and in 2009 the couple rented a townhouse in the Retreat at Twin Lakes. Zimmerman had bounced from job to job for a couple of years, working at a car dealership and a mortgage company. At times, according to testimony from Shellie at a bond hearing for Zimmerman, the couple filed for unemployment benefits.

    Zimmerman enrolled in Seminole State College in 2009, and in December 2011 he was permitted to participate in a school graduation ceremony, despite being a course credit shy of his associate’s degree in criminal justice. Zimmerman was completing that course credit when the shooting occurred.

    He purchased his Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm handgun due to a bad neighborhood pit bull dog named “Big Boi” recommended by a SPD officer. Mark Osterman helped him purchase it and helped with training and his CONCEALED permit.

    Source: Chris Francescani (Reuters)


  200. SonofThunder, good work, thank you very much.

    I notice that none of the African Americans who were involved with him before the 2005 personal problems period (the “2005 PPP) has ever shown up for an interview by anyone. Interesting.

    I understand that Zimmerman was estranged from his family until this event on 2/26/2012 occurred.

  201. two things have occurred to me about the “lie detector tests” administered to Zimmerman the day after the shooting.

    1. WE ONLY SAW A VIDEO OF ONE, not TWO. Why is the video of the other one not being released?

    2. Considering the way George Zimmerman changes the meaning of things in his own mind, I can see why the two questions being tested:

    “Did you confront the guy you shot?” and
    “At the time you shot him were you afraid for your life?”

    could come out the way he chose to say them (did NOT confront; yes WAS afraid for my life) and still make him “telling substantially the truth” as he knew it although he was obviously lying.

    Here’s why:

    Question: Did George Confront the guy he shot?

    Obvious answer: Of course.

    George’s way of seeing what happened: “No, I did not confront him. He confronted ME! He wanted to know what I WAS DOING following him. But I was not following him, I was just protecting my neighborhood. I’m a GOOD GUY. I was doing what I should do when I see a suspicious person in the rain preying on my neighbors, looking into their houses, looking to do wrong, up to no good. I did not confront him, I merely wanted to know what he was doing there. I’m perfectly within my rights to find out what a suspicious guy is doing in MY NEIGHBORHOOD. That’s not confrontation; that’s a free man’s right to live free and stand his ground. Thus, I did not confront him.”

    Question: Were you afraid for your life at the time that you shot him?

    Obvious Answer: Of course not.

    George’s way of seeing what happened: “This guy was suspicious. He had no right to be there, and he had run, and he was trying to avoid answering perfectly righteous normal questions posed to him by a good guy who was only trying to protect his neighborhood. Therefore, for him to refuse to behave decently and answer a few simple questions from an authority figure, for him to instead CHALLENGE MY AUTHORITY, was wrong, and that shows how dangerous he was. That he wouldn’t buckle under when I required him to stop being obstreperous is another indication that he was up to no good. That he began struggling and actually got aggressive with me was scary, and after I fell, I knew that this was all going wrong. What if he got the better of ME and had ME in a subordinated, weakened position when the police arrived, how would THAT look? I would have to be rescued by the police when I was trying to be the neighborhood superhero? That would RUIN MY LIFE. HE CAN’T CHALLENGE MY AUTHORITY LIKE THAT! My life depends upon my being able to show how important and righteous and dominant I REALLY AM; I can’t let this happen; this will ruin my life. This is no joke; I am afraid for my life! My life will be SH*T FOREVER unless I win in this confrontation with this thug who does not acknowledge my authority and who is trying to humiliate me and get away.”

  202. Malisha, The voice stress test was run twice.*

    Sonofthunder: looks like the zimmerman team has some pr folks at work.

  203. Shano, thanks, what you wrote really significantly made this a better-hair day for me than it had been before. And if you could see my hair, you would know that you had done a good deed for a poor old woman.

    Furthermore, I liked what you wrote for another reason. The only way I can figure things out is by putting myself in the place of the person I am trying to analyze. I have to know enough to “be George Zimmerman” to figure out what GZ did, or was likely to have done. It is as if I am an actor (I am not) getting into a role, so that I can figure out the motivation, the rationale, the underlying forces. I have a dear friend (we call each other sisters in spite of the fact that we are from radically different backgrounds and only met when we were both adults) who is a very accomplished actress, one of the best (and this opinion has been seconded by Meryl Streep!) and who more or less taught me this (without my asking). She gets into a role and she says, “What is this person going to DO when that person does THAT?” and that’s how she does her acting, and it honestly never fails, and the reviewers say that, consistently, eloquently. Once you’re in that person’s mind you CAN figure out the incomprehensible!

    You may never be able to do this if the other person’s mind is totally opaque to you, that’s the only drawback. Zimmerman is NOT OPAQUE. He’s pretty simple; he’s pretty transparent.

    “These a55holes always get away.”
    “Sh*t, he ran.”
    “He looks like he’s up to no good.”
    “The suspect again emerged from the darkness.”
    “He said, ‘you got me, or you got it,'”
    “I was yelling for help but nobody would help me.”
    “Man, just call my wife and tell her I shot somebody.”
    “To be honest with you, up until that point, I had forgotten I had my gun with me.”
    “I said, ‘no, I don’t have a problem,’ and I reached for my cell phone…”

    Transparent. It means:

    “I was pumped up and I wasn’t gonna let this one get away. But when it turned out he wasn’t a criminal or anything, I realized, he really WAS a bad guy because he wanted to hurt ME. All of what happened was about HIM hurting ME. HE wanted to kill ME and that’s why I had to kill HIM. Otherwise I WOULD HAVE LOST, and I HAVE TO WIN.”

  204. Oh how I wish Hannity had asked George Zimmerman to help the Martin family by saying, out loud, the prayer that he says “daily” for them. I imagine it goes something like this:

    Dear God,
    It’s me again, George, and again, I’m sorry about the death of your son.
    You’re my hero, and I just want to use you as my role model, and I really appreciate your being on my side, and trying to help me.
    God, I come before you to ask for justice and mercy for the mother and father of “the guy” I shot. I still have not gotten to the point where I will say his name, because he did not have the humility to recognize your light in my eyes the day that he and I met, because of Your Plan.
    Dear God, I ask your unlimited mercy for the father of “the guy” I shot, because I don’t know the real reason that in your plan for this man, you did not have him understand his responsibility to raise his son in such a way that the boy would not seek to kill an innocent stranger. I ask your unlimited mercy for “the guy”‘s father, also, to reach out your all-powerful hand and to TOUCH his heart with mercy and love, which he was unfortunately unable to teach his errant son, in time, to avoid tragedy. But, God, it is not too late for him. If you reach out TODAY, even TODAY, and touch the heart of the father of “the guy” and make him accept your love today, he still has time, there is still time, for him to realize that what he needs to do is to understand Your Plan and understand how, in your infinite wisdom, you needed to make me an instrument of your will so that I could face these demons and show that young African American men lacking in godliness could demonstrate, even in their death, that their vicious and foolhardy desire to kill innocents like me for no reason on dark nights in nice neighborhoods could be rejected, could be renounced, could be publicly disavowed by their own fathers, their blessed fathers, who could accept Your Plan and, on behalf of their own departed sons’ lives, make a new statement to the world: OUR SONS MUST STOP TRYING TO KILL PEOPLE LIKE GEORGE ZIMMERMAN.

    Dear God, you can still do this, you can turn this father around, so that he can make a lasting memorial to the memory of his sinner son, so that his son will have died for his own sins but so that others need not follow his example and continue to do so, I ask this in your sacred son’s name, Lord.

    And Dear God, I pray now most urgently for the soul of the mother of “the guy,” who has appeared on television, over and over, showing anger in her face. Lord, I have been to anger management class, and I know, that anger is not your way, and that you can touch someone’s heart, and make them give up their anger, and make them walk away from their anger, so that they are not sunk in the destitution of their sinful rage. You can do that, Lord, and I pray for that on behalf of the mother of “the guy.”

    Lord, you can turn her around and make her realize that her own dearly beloved son, for whom she would naturally make any excuse, lost his precious life because of the unruly and unwarranted anger that he gave himself over to, on that night on 2/26/2012 when he viciously attacked me, seeking to kill me for simply appearing in his field of vision with what he perceived as the wrong look upon my godly face. Dear God, please, I beg you, touch this woman with the kind of love you have given to my own sainted wife Shellie, who has faced demons on my behalf and who will again have to face demons on my behalf because we are poor. Lord, please, take this opportunity to THIS DAY reach into the heart of the mother of “the guy” and make her give up her anger, and make her go to the others — the prosecutor, the judge, the people who preach anger from their pulpits and from the media — and make her let the light of Your Grace shine through her so that she tells them:

    I have given up my anger and wish that I had raised my son to give up HIS ANGER.
    We have no more anger.
    FREE GEORGE ZIMMERMAN and bless him,
    Dear Lord,
    I ask for this,
    Thank you,

    (Donated organ music and a coupla really cute blonde angels making sacred wind sounds with their wings, please!)

    Hey Sean, how ’bout it — broadcast George saying his urgent prayers, OK?

    O’Mara — how’s this script? LIKEY? No copyright — you’re free to use it any time.

  205. BettyKath, I guess the “soul of the killer” really did enter into my mind and really did inspite me to deep and urgent prayer to George’s Maker.:-)


    Also: A lot of the prosecution’s case depends on establishing whether or not Zimmerman is a glib liar who is capable of viciously attacking people and then playing the innocent “who me?” card while insinuating that the victim was asking for it. Pretty much all men who sexually assault women have developed an ability to do this; part of the routine of a rapist is terrifying and hurting someone only to convince the community to embrace him after the fact and write off the victim as hysterical, a liar, or a slut trying to cover her tracks. We know that most sexual assailants are repeat offenders—indeed, this is what the accuser in this case is claiming of Zimmerman—which means they have a lot of opportunities to practice playing innocent and blaming the victim after they’ve committed the crime. If the prosecution wants to establish that Zimmerman is the kind of guy who is capable of assaulting and even murdering someone and then playing innocent victim, a history of cutting his teeth as a sexual assailant helps establish that narrative.

  207. Excuse me, Professor Turley, I’m having a problem reconciling ideas expressed in two of your articles. In a recent blog post about the fury of the painter scorned, you said:

    “Fury reportedly confessed after being told by Navy investigators that he failed a lie detector test. Polygraphs are often used for their ability to unnerve a suspect or prompt a confession. I have handled cases where the test itself was little more than theater…”

    But in this thread, you seem to put some stock in the voice stress test performed AT GEORGE ZIMMERMAN’S REQUEST in which he was asked only questions he had agreed (with the tester) to answered, which questions were — shall we say — not particularly challenging.

    Watching the video of George taking the test and so forth, one would have to definitely call it theater and we all know who wrote the script. So for the voice stress test to have impressed Angela Corey or influenced her decision as to how to charge George Zimmerman — well — wouldn’t make sense, would it?

    What if somebody were charged with a crime and they insisted they didn’t do it and weren’t responsible? Wouldn’t we have to agree that was unfair? After all, THEY said it didn’t happen that way…

  208. I posted that MINI DOSSIER on GZ to give people some in depth fodder for their personal analysis efforts. I really think this kid really stepped in his own metaphorical crap in life. I believe he was manipulated to this violent incident by a close but demented friend (i.e. Frank Taaffe). I don’t think GZ ever killed anything in his brief past (only 29 years old) not even a pit bull at RATL that was bothering him and the neighbors. I am not trying to spiritually exonerate him of the crime at hand but my “evidence whispering” techniques are screaming that he did NOT actually pull the trigger – I truly believe Frank did. However. that does not clear GZ of felony behavior. Clearly covering up a murder by another is in itself worth at least 30 years or more. OJ got more for trying to take back his own stuff.

    Don’t get me wrong… still keep the spotlight on GZ very hard! But let’s also aim that at the OTHER guy trying to avoid that beam of truth.

    This is my humorous take on F.T. stealing a police cruiser and trying to avoid our spotlight in a civilian helicopter firing metaphorical bullets of evidence at him – 2:42 minutes of tongue-in-cheek humor (take a break from reality for a moment):


    The Times analysis found that 67 percent of all defendants who invoked the law went free. For defendants who had at least one arrest, the success rate dropped to 59 percent. Serial law-breakers — those with three or more arrests — walked free only 45 percent of the time.

    Even so, killers with repeated run-ins with the law and with violent accusations in their past have successfully claimed “stand your ground” across the state.

    • Jackson Fleurimon had been arrested for battery, aggravated assault and drug possession. Witnesses said he was in a beef over drug turf when he shot and killed a man in Orange County in 2009. A judge granted him immunity.

    • Tavarious China Smith was a drug dealer with multiple arrests who killed a man during an 2008 argument over drug territory in Manatee County. He claimed self-defense and went free. Less than three years later, he was back in front of prosecutors for a different homicide, this one the result of a shoot-out outside a nightclub. Smith once again went free by claiming “stand your ground.”

    • In Tallahassee, Dervaunta Vaughn had been accused of battery at least six times before police arrested him in a gangland shoot-out that left one person dead in March 2009. After Vaughn invoked “stand your ground,” prosecutors struck a plea deal that dropped murder charges and sent Vaughn to prison for eight years for illegally carrying a gun.

    • Alexander Lopez-Lima’s run-ins with the law began two days after his 15th birthday. His half-dozen arrests include battery, selling and possessing marijuana and strong arm robbery, court records show. In 2011 a judge decided the then-18-year-old Lopez-Lima was standing his ground when he wound up in an armed battle and killed another teen who had come to his house to smoke marijuana.

    • Norman Borden, a now-deceased West Palm Beach man, racked up arrests for criminal mischief, disorderly conduct and aggravated assault in the 1980s and ’90s before he was acquitted of murder in the deaths of two men who threatened him with bats while he walked his dog.

    And then there’s Maurice Moorer.”

    Read the article of this incredible SYG case. The view I see is that this law cheapens life and people go free when they manipulate the system. Who knows, George may get even more lenient treatment….

  210. Here’s something I posted over in a Stately place re the Hannity interview.

    I’ll edit it up with links and a graphic and add it as a new page in my Zimmerman’s Call blog real soon now – like tomorrow or so:)


    The interview seems to have been a PR exercise to gather support.
    It is useful, though, as a pointer to the stall that O’Mara is laying out.

    The bottom line will be that Zimmerman was doing absolutely nothing provocative or inadvisable.


    Zimmerman got out to get a house number simply because he thought of doing so. The dispatcher had not yet asked him about where Martin was headed at that time. He deciding to get a house number just happened to coincide with Martin running/skipping. The door opening immediately on “He’s running” is coincidence.

    Martin did not run – and certainly did not run in fear. He just sort of skipped – moved a bit faster than a walk.This is important as Martin running might imply that Zimmerman had been behaving in a manner that would alarm someone who was not actually in the act of housebreaking , etc.

    Zimmerman did not run. He walked. The noises that sound like him hurrying/jogging and a bit breathless are just wind noises that just happened to start about 4 seconds after he got out and just happened to stop while he was still walking.
    This ‘not hurrying’ is important, as hurrying might imply an urgency in tracking Martin and/or risking bumping into a person whose location was unknown as they could not be seen at the time.
    The fact that walking unquestionably puts him still on the roadway of Twin Trees at the time of “Are you following him?” “Yeah” “We don’t need you to do that” is irrelevant. He was not actually following – so the question about the advisability of following is moot.

    Zimmerman did not follow. It just happened that a walk of 250 feet to Retreat View Circle happened to be in the direction of a place where Martin had disappeared from his sight.
    He had the option of a much safer and shorter walk of 100 feet to RVC if he had gone North instead of East.
    However, going East past the place where Martin had skipped out of sight was not unsafe. This is because Zimmerman did not feel threatened ( “No, not particularly” ) by Martin and had done nothing to provoke Martin.
    There is a slight conflict with the last bit as Zimmerman says “but I was certain I could see him saying something to me. And his demeanor, his body language, was confrontational.

    Zimmerman finished the call at RVC and started walking back to his truck. Martin attacked him less than 30 seconds later.
    The 30 seconds is a reasonable time for a walk from RVC to the point just West of the T-junction. 20 seconds at a normal pace would do it, but 30 seconds is fine.

    It is here that anyone who has the ability to stand back and look at the evidence can see that Zimmerman’s story can not stand up to examination against known inescapable facts.

    The call ended at 19:13:41
    Martin attacked Zimmerman “Less than 30 seconds” later. Say 19:14:10
    Ok so far.
    The first 911 call connected at 19:16:11
    A shot is heard 42 seconds into the call – at 19:16:53

    This means that Martin had been beating Zimmerman for 2 minutes before that call connected.
    Martin continued to beat Zimmerman for another 42 seconds – up to the shot. This is a total of 2 minutes and 42 seconds during which Martin had been punching Zimmerman and banging his head on the ground.

    The interviews with that 911 caller, she on the corner house with her rear porch door open, indicates that she was quick to dial 911.
    If we allow 20 seconds from her noticing a loud argument and her phone connecting to 911, that leaves 1 minute and 40 seconds of Martin beating Zimmerman within 20 feet of her open porch door that was conducted without loud noises – like anyone arguing or shouting for help. 1 minute and 40 seconds in which neither raised their voice and Zimmerman did not call for help despite being beaten.

    Zimmerman’s injuries were minor. Are they really consistent with a beating that lasted 2 minutes and 42 seconds?

    What if Zimmerman has the “less than 30 seconds wrong”?
    If the altercation broke out, say 20 seconds before that 911 call connected, then the entire time of struggle is reasonably accounted for – and Zimmerman’s minor injuries more plausible as been due to a mere 1 minute of punching and head-beating.
    Unfortunately, that leaves a problem. It would mean that the altercation began 2 minutes and 30 seconds after Zimmerman’s NEN call ended.
    That might lead a jury to assume that Zimmerman had indeed gone wandering in search of the “**holes” and “punks” who “always get away”.

    O’Mara can probably deal with matters like the clubhouse CCTV analysis showing a vehicle cruising around the clubhouse and ending up parking in Twin Trees exactly as Frank Taafe says Zimmerman indicated to him – making a U-turn and facing the clubhouse. The person shining a flashlight in the clubhouse door is not necessarily Zimmerman – just someone a bit like him. The image segments of a vehicle could be any vehicle similar to Zimmerman’s.
    He can probably deal with forensics indicating that Martin’s hoodie and shirt were being pulled away from his body and towards the gun when the shot was fired.

    “Following” can become “going in the same direction”.
    “Running” can become skipping.
    Conflicts in statements, interviews and walk through can be put down to stress, bad memory and ADHD.

    What O’Mara won’t ever be able to explain is the automatically recorded timings of phone calls. There is no reasonable explanation for a gap in the order of 2 minutes.
    He’ll have to go for a plea deal, or head the whole thing off by successfully arguing SYG – without putting Zimmerman up for cross-examination. If Zimmerman is put on the stand, his credibility becomes Zero.
    Any jury is going to see Zimmerman’s story as completely unreliable.

  211. Sling, thank you once again.

    You mention “with forensics indicating that Martin’s hoodie and shirt were being pulled away from his body and towards the gun when the shot was fired.” —

    Now I see it more clearly. George (and Frank) had actually gotten ahold of Trayvon Martin when the whining “Gowayyyy Gowayyy” screams were heard, right before the shot. He was unable to get away because he was being held by his shirt and hoodie. He was then shot right through the shirt and hoodie.

    Angela Corey undercharged this case. but I understand why she did.

  212. “with forensics indicating that Martin’s hoodie and shirt were being pulled away from his body and towards the gun when the shot was fired.” –

    Where is this?

    Sling, do you the url for that stately place?

  213. Bettykath,

    This references the report of :
    Amy L. Siewert is a Crime Laboratory Analyst employed by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement Crime Laboratory. She examined TM’s Fruit of the Loom dark gray hooded sweatshirt (Exhibit ME 12) and the light gray Nike sweatshirt (Exhibit ME 8) that he was wearing underneath the hoodie when GZ shot and killed him

    The forensics reports gives the bald technical details. The blog post puts an interpretation on those.

  214. I love everyone’s analysis. I know GZ, Taaffe, and O’Mara are watching. I know Frank is because he has already tried to make contact on another forum. He is not pleased.

    I just want to say GZ’s self-diagnosis of ADHD is bogus. It is not typical for someone his age and GZ is hardly HYPERactive or he would have defended himself vigorously with his hands. I would say he might have Adult Attention Deficit Disorder (AADD). But I don’t feel abject forgetfulness is a really big symptom. Racing thoughts, short attention span, and maybe a slightly increased intelligence acumen may be indicated. I feel AADD victims tend to pay a lot of attention to EVERYTHING around them. So much so it is a deficit – hence the name.

    I’d say he has FAHD (f**king as* hole disorder)

    I think what he needs is ANGER MANAGEMENT. Frank too.

  215. sonofthunderboanerges,

    I’m currently revamping my Zimmerman’s Call blog to take account of the latest evidence releases.
    I’m way behind because I had to go on a 3-week field trip to the wilds just after the release.
    The blog as a whole will be a bit messy for a few hours as I go editing through it.

    However, the Speculation page touched on this ANGER thing, with the flight/fight reflex being a trigger point.

  216. SonofThunder, George no longer needs Anger Management; he has forgiven all those people who criticized him for killing an unarmed kid, although he WOULD like an apology from Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, right? Oh well, some people just don’t apologize when they do wrong…what can we say?

    Here’s a question:

    Autopsy says the gunshot was at INTERMEDIATE RANGE.

    Analysis of the clothing says CONTACT SHOT.

    How does that work?

    About George not shooting his other hand? Apparently, while he was being viciously beaten, he had his little hands curled up on his chest, so he wouldn’t break his nails. He couldn’t afford to break his fingernails! So instead of punching back, pushing the thug off him, shielding his face, grabbing or smacking or jabbing or gouging eyes or pulling nose or anything like that, he was:

    wiggling so his head could hit grass rather than concrete


    yelling a lot

    Picture him: hands curled up demurely in front of him while he’s being beaten half to death. NOT in front of his fragile nose, just in front of his chest, so that finally, when he realizes he has to kill his assailant, he needs to be careful not to shoot the one useless hand with the other that is now holding the gun.

    Isn’t George Z a terrible wus? I mean couldn’t even fight for two minutes? Couldn’t defend himself at all from a kid who had no training? Here was George, just about to become a cop, and couldn’t hold off an angry teen-ager for a couple of minutes til the police arrived? What a little sissy!

    Funny, he doesn’t LOOK as easy to dominate as he WAS. What could be the reason for that? Some ideas:

    1. He’s used to being abused because his mother beat the sh*t out of him and then he had a girlfriend from whom he needed an order of protection and then he married a dominatrix who looks like a real bruiser;

    2. He’s so scared of threatening black kids that he loses all ability to defend himself and screams like a little girl instead;

    3. He lacks self esteem so he can’t muster any self-defensive energy unless he pulls his gun;

    4. He’s a damn liar. He confronted, tried to “arrest,” got angry at, and killed Trayvon Martin but then he wanted to walk away from his crime and stay “good guy” and get what he wanted in life.

  217. Sling,

    “with forensics indicating that Martin’s hoodie and shirt were being pulled away from his body and towards the gun when the shot was fired.” –

    This interpretation makes sense.

    Something else that makes sense and helps to account for the missing time from the end of Z’s call to the 911 calls: another blog proposed that Zimmerman went down RVC toward the back entrance, then cut between the houses to the path. Or possibly, all the way to the end and then up the path then moving toward the T. Either way it would help to explain the witness who said that she saw two people running toward the T. I can more easily see Z trying to catch the “a..h… who always get away” than Martin chasing the weird guy who’s been following him. Besides, if it happened this way, Z is the one lying so he would be the aggressor.

    Zimmerman made a huge mistake that has changed his life. I just wish he’d own up to it, take his punishment, and move on.

  218. BettyKath, the problem is that George Zimmerman doesn’t believe there should BE punishment for what he “had to do.” Chief Lee didn’t believe there should be punishment for what Zimmerman did. Wolfinger didn’t believe there should be punishment for what Zimmerman did. Probably half the white people in Florida don’t believe there should be punishment for it. This has made Zimmerman try to change the story about what he did to fit into the legal definition of a “non-crime” — because he doesn’t think that killing a “guy” he finds suspicious and calls a “punk” and an “a55hole” should be punishable. Taaffe doesn’t believe it; Zimmerman doesn’t believe it; Osterman doesn’t believe it.

    What Trayvon Martin did that night to get George mad enough to kill him was to NOT PLAY THE SUBSERVIANT, SELF-CRIMINALIZING SNIVELING COWARDLY BAD BOY, so Zimmerman felt his “authority” being challenged and he couldn’t allow that because he’s a punk and an a55hole.

    Anybody who thinks my calling Zimmerman a punk and an a55hole is unfair, disrespectful, a sign of malice, a depravity, a sign of ill will on my part — YEAH, I AGREE. My calling Zimmerman a punk and an a55hole is a sign of malice, a depravity, and a sign of ill will on my part. SEE?

    And killing someone with malice, depravity and ill will is, in Florida, SECOND DEGREE MURDER. I have not done that to Zimmerman, but I will admit the negative feelings on my part toward him. Precisely those he expressed to the police toward Trayvon Martin (whether deserved or not) BEFORE SHOOTING HIM DEAD.

  219. Malisha, Just b/c I think he should own up to it doesn’t mean that I think he will. i’m sure he believes he was justified in all that he did, including the tale that he told.

  220. Lock him up. When George is faced with jail time. will he rat out Taaffe?

    yes, why, yes I think he would if he could get a reward of some kind

  221. Taffe gets a mention for different reasons in my (Zimmerman’s) Elephants page.

    Zimmerman does not appear to be the brightest of individuals.
    He does have an instinctive cunning though.

    It seems clear from the time gap and his own words in the NEN call that he went in search of Martin.
    However justified he might have felt in doing that, he seems to have realised immediately that being actively in search of Martin would be damaging to him.
    Right from the start he claims that he was simply walking back to his truck, and that there was no question of him being South of the East-West path.
    He even claims that he only got out of the truck and got into that area due to demands for information by the dispatcher.

    By the time of the Hannity interview, he seems to recognise that his words in the call are problematic. He has to change their meaning.
    He and O’Mara must be well aware of the time gap of over 2 minutes. They can’t address it. One can make an attempt to unsay things. Turning back time isn’t so easy though.

  222. I just read a comment on the Colorado Shooter news (one of the Fox or Fox-like threads) that said the commenter wished Trayvon Martin’s parents had been killed in the movie theater that night. Reading it, I realized that all the pro-Zim folks who put in these psycho-comments really believe that there would never have been any problem with the “kill” if only those terrible parents hadn’t fussed so much about their little thug being eliiminated. And if you see the way Zimmerman reacted to the event BEFORE IT SEEMED CLEAR THAT HE COULDN’T JUST WALK AWAY UNTOUCHED you see that he also felt there was no problem at all from the “kill.” He felt like he had a confirmed “kill” to make him a righteous member of the Brotherhood, that’s all. Eliminated a thug, got his badge, he’s a made man.

  223. Maybe there is a tiny shred of truth in Georges statement. Didn’t some people hear the fight start at or close to the T- junction? But then it moved down the path to the place where Trayvon was killed. Maybe Trayvon was trying to retreat to where he was staying,with George continuing a verbal fight, with some contact at times until the real struggle on the ground started.

  224. Sling, you’ve done a great job on the time line. how does it work if Zimmerman, with purpose, goes thru to RVC, turns right toward the back entrance and then cuts thru to the path, either between two blocks of houses or at the end where Martin was headed? Do either of those paths help account for the 2 minutes? One witness seeing someone (two?) running toward the T.

  225. Here’s some more fodder for your analysis:

    1. I think George is left-handed.

    2. I think he wore his holster on the right-side so he had to reach over for the pistol.

    3. Trayvon’s wound is on the right side of his chest (our right his left).

    4. My watching Frank in videos he APPEARS to be right-handed but not sure. And Frank appears to be as tall if not taller than George and Trayvon (not sure).

    5. There appears to be no angle of trajectory from a left-handed prospective. Just maybe a slightly higher angle possibly suggesting the shooter shot downward (I could be mistaken about that).

    6. George is capable of physical violence as demonstrated against a woman at his job in where he forcibly picked her up and threw hr out the building. And again in 2005 where he slugged a SPD undercover officer. And he also hit his girlfriend a few times – which prompted the SPD UC to intervene. So George knows how to get physical when it calls for it.

    7. IMO he does appear slightly intelligent as I believe he was enrolled in college at the time of the shooting. But he’s only 29 and does not have much street savvy but has learned a few ‘tricks of the trade’ from Mark, Frank, Shellie, and his dad. I believe he does have trouble thinking “outside the box” and depends more on his skills from rote learning in dealing with his environment. He is definitely a follower and not a leader.

  226. Can you imagine what his Army Ranger babysitters are teaching him right now? Maybe hand signals so he can speak non-verbally with Shellie next time as “verbally” has caught his ‘t*ts in a ringer’ once too many times.

  227. Oh I forgot… if GZ is left-handed why did the very ‘small’ amount of residue show up on his right-arm coat sleeve and right hand? If he fired the residue would be heavy. If someone were standing next to his right-arm and fired the weapon maybe that’s how the residue got on GZ’s right sleeve & hand? Maybe GZ was worried about his “other” (right-hand) because HE was holding Trayvon’s shirt while Frank was firing the shot. Like “Hey Frank watch out for my hand dude!” The eye-witness M* & her girlfriend roommate said she heard Trayvon pleading for his life and he was on his knees. The 3rd 911 caller said she saw a man with a “white” t-shirt at the scene. Neither GZ nor TM had a white T-shirt on.

    My theory was that the LOUD “HELP HELP HELP” was coming from M* not Trayvon nor George. She must have seen all of the other witnesses onlooking from various vantage points (FBI says 21 now) and asking for them to help.Tim (aka John) ran back inside his adjacent house and watched from upstairs window while calling 911.

    I sure would like to know what M* has to say about a 3rd person at the scene…
    M* is the South American woman (and with her American female roommate) who lives on RVC at the kill site in her back yard. Her and her girlfriend confronted GZ right after the shot. And they had a flashlight. They don’t mention a 3rd person but SPD is arguably trying to silence them as they don’t like their testimony. Why? because it changes everything about how they want to see it. I have a feeling they will be Angela Corey’s and FBI Ibison’s star witnesses. They should be in protective custody by now.

  228. sonofthunder, GZ is left handed. In the walk-thru he demonstrated reaching for his gun with his right hand and later he demonstrates, after shooting TM, that he still has his gun out – in his right hand. He writes as if his left-handedness is pretty strong but it isn’t unusual for a certain amount of ambidextrousness. I’m left handed in all things, but I swing right handed (golf, baseball), left handed for bowling.

  229. Another possibility. GZ is naturally right handed but had a serious injury to his right hand at the time when he was learning to write and had to use his left hand. This learning could have stayed with him and then whatever he learned afterward he learned with his right hand.

  230. The left-handed thing is a bit odd.

    If you look at videos where Zimmerman mentions his gun or his phone, his right hand goes to his right hip – in both cases.
    He does this unconsciously. It’s reflex.
    He write left-handed though. There are people who are ambidextrous or who have a mix.

    It’s entirely possible that Zimmerman took out the gun even before he encountered Martin.
    I also sense that it is entirely possible that he actually reached for his phone when he encountered Martin. He really is that messed up.

    Very early on, Zimmerman’s parents (and to a lesser certainty, his brother) indicated that the fight started because Martin saw the gun when Zimmerman went for his phone.
    Certainly, they were all agreed that the trigger for Martin punching was Zimmerman reaching for his phone.

    There’s this “hand in his waistband” thing that Zimmerman thought so significant that he mentioned it in the NEN call – and is the only detail of the approach/circling that he repeats in the walk-through.
    Would it be so surprising if Martin had the same sort of reaction to weird people in the dark in a tense situation reaching for their waistband – even *if* what Zimmerman *was* reaching for (rather stupidly in the circumstances) was his phone?

    Or, to answer the query..
    Yes, left-handed writer Zimmerman would use his right hand to draw a gun from his right hip and shoot.
    From what I see in the videos, it’s automatic for him

  231. OK I understand everyone’s comments about GZ’s possible ambidexterity. But how do you explain the lack of reasonable amounts of gun powder and Pb residue on his right-side? There was not enough to claim that that hand shot Trayvon. The other arm (left) had none at all.

    The Kel-Tec pistol he had ejects the cartridge up and to the right. The safety and releases are on the left making it easier to thumb with your RIGHT hand vs left (so you make have a point there). However, his holster is a leftie. It’s belt-clip makes the pistol grip point backward on his left side but frontwards on his right side. That’s if he doesn’t clip it INSIDE his right waistband (which he evidently did that night I guess).

    So it seems to me that he purchased a leftie holster for a reason. They are cheap and not a point you need to think heavily on. His Kel-Tec seems perfect for a rightie though as you can get hit by your own spent casings if you fire it leftie.

    During the NEN video he could have been just doing that as it occurred to him that his hand orientation may become an issue in the future. I truly think his cellphone was ALWAYS in his dominant hand even when he CONFRONTED Trayvon. He was constantly using it so why put it away on his hip?

    When he was driving he had to use his left-hand to make the 911 calls as the shift lever is on his right-hand side in his truck. He was not using a headset or you could tell.

    In the NEN video ( he doesn’t DRAW his weapon 09:55. He was describing (lying) about how he used his right hand to deflect Trayvon from getting his pistol. I think in GZ’s natural drawing maneuver he would use his left hand to reach across and pull his pistol which was inverted in a leftie-holster. Many 19th century wild west cowboys (and detectives today) enjoyed this particular maneuver as they said they could draw faster like this (with pistol inverted and reaching across their body). Others preferred otherwise (normal holstering mounted high up on belt for ease of drawing fast). All a matter of perspective I guess…

  232. “But how do you explain the lack of reasonable amounts of gun powder and Pb residue on his right-side?”

    I don’t see an explanation. The only residue on his clothing was a single small spot on the back of his right sleeve. I don’t recall any residue on his hands, but maybe I’m remembering incorrectly. He probably had blood on his hands that got wiped off by the emts. His hands were clean appearing when they were photographed in the police station.

  233. Personally, I would make an educated guess at this point that George had his gun out before he found Martin again, but he probably didn’t raise it and threaten Martin with it until Martin refused to kowtow to him and/or come with him voluntarily. Zimmerman had it in his head he was going to deliver a terrified trussed-up criminal to the police and get his first medal. Martin, on the other hand, saw danger and a “creepy guy” and decided not to risk being kidnapped.

    Think of two groups: One has historically abused and dominated the other, for hundreds of years, or even more. Oh let’s just say MEN and WOMEN, for an example. So a woman is walking along at night, all alone, and along comes a man she doesn’t know. He has been watching her and she noticed that, so she ducked into an area he couldn’t see and waited there for the guy to disappear, but he didn’t. Suddenly he shows up again. She’s scared. She naturally believes he is up to no good; what would make her think otherwise. She’s alone, he’s not in uniform, he doesn’t say anything like, “Ma’am are you OK?” or “Are you lost?”

    She would naturally want to defend herself.

    If that man wanted to do her some good, like make her go down to the police station so they could check on whether she was a run-away or a prostitute or someone disoriented and walking around in the wrong neighborhood, maybe he would really get shocked and angry if she acted overly defensive or challenging to him. Crazy b*tch, she shouldn’t do THAT! Maybe, if he carries a weapon, he’ll pull out that weapon, with one hand or the other. Maybe that will cause her to scream and holler and try to fight him off. Maybe he’ll shoot her and consider it self-defense.

    Just sayin, maybe…

    It’s best not to follow strangers in the dark. It’s even best not to APPEAR to be following strangers in the dark. It could spook them and they might have to stand their ground. Damn!

    (BTW, it is very delightful that Taaffe is all exercised. Prepare him for his testimony at trial!)

    (Remember he said George only shot Martin because he was “fed up”?)

  234. Now that mom Zimmerman and Dad Zimmerman have their own web-page asking for money, they have resurrected the old “Our son helped a poor homeless Black man against the Sanford Police” myth.

    The reality is that George climbed on board Chief (now ex-Chief) Lee’s political machine to get rid of former police Chief Brian Toohey, so that he could cement a relationship and get hired onto the force. In fact, he never handed out fliers (Ware’s sister confirms this and long ago joined the Trayvon Martin family’s attorneys in activism against Zimmerman, decried by the Zimmerman parents as some kind of betrayal) and he never cared at all about the rights of Blacks in discriminatory conduct of the well-known racist SPD.

    He COUNTED on SPD to let him get away with murder and until there was a public outcry, they did that for him. Chief Lee, who rode into office with George’s help, was ridden OUT OF OFFICE due to the cover-up he orchestrated in the Zimmerman case. So although there will probably be no opportunity for any judge to opine on the credibility of the Zimmerman parents, I’d say they will be lucky never to get sworn in again.

  235. In fact, here’s a description of the public meeting where Chief Lee’s folks were kicking out Chief Tooley. Comments by George Zimmerman:

    “I would just like to state that the law is written in black and white. It should not and cannot be enforced in the gray for those that are in the thin blue line,” he said at the hearing. CNN obtained a recording this week.

    “He mentioned Brian Tooley, who was Sanford’s police chief at the time of the Ware incident. “I’d like to know what action the commission intends on making in order to repeal Mr. Tooley’s pension. I’m not asking you to repeal his pension. I believe that he’s already forfeited his pension by his illegal cover-up and corruption and what happened in his department.”

    “While Zimmerman is not heard specifically mentioning Ware in the recording, the official minutes from the hearing state that citizen demands included “a full review of the Sherman Ware cover-ups on behalf of” Sanford police.”

    “Read more:


    Citizens demanded a review of the cover-up
    Citizens were there to kick out Chief Tooley
    One citizen, George Zimmerman, was there to help kick out Tooley AND remove his pension.

    Zimmerman did not, however, even MENTION Sherman Ware.

    He was there to lend his political support to Chief Lee, so he would have a friend in office.

    Oh and — he mentioned to the female detective on 2/27/2012 that he had e-mailed Chief Lee to put a commendation in her file for some prior action on her part that he liked. He reminded her of that; she had not seen it or couldn’t remember it and didn’t seem terribly impressed.

    Zimmerman and Lee were in contact for a long time. They were each other’s helpers, politically.

    Lee was “Zim’s Guy” in the SPD.

  236. Meanwhile, over at the Department of WTF……

    I had seen some time ago that Martin could have interpreted Zimmerma’s following (aka “walking in the same direction as”) as indicating an unwelcome sexual interest.
    And now this:

    George Zimmerman investigators: Startling motive for shooting Trayvon Martin

    “What chief FBI investigator Hallen Jameson stumbled upon Saturday afternoon generated a rift in the initial search of Zimmerman’s property. Among facebook messenger, eBay biddings, and Bank of America online banking, also dwelt a Firefox Mozilla browser history containing URLs to several pornographic websites aimed toward gay Black men. The sites visited were,, and, to name a few, with the latter being visited four times just hours prior to the shooting. Graphic in nature, the sites are premium adult pay sites containing images, videos, and erotic stories of Black ‘thug’ males engaging in sexual acts with other men. Several investigators and detectives have begun incorporating these findings into what may be an incredible twist in what may factor a role into the true motivation behind Zimmerman fatally shooting the Black teen in February. Perhaps an unreciprocated sexual invitation gone awry?”

    This is going to drive his supporters mad – unless it’s an elephant to them.

    Of course, it could just have been research into the social mores of “suspects”- or something like that. Y’know.
    We was just browing in the same direction as people with a sexual interest in young black guys. See? Perfectly plausible.

    Unless……. maybe it wasn’t Zimmerman doing that browsing, eh….
    No. no…that’s even worse – if Zimmerman discovered it.
    Unless she told him that was simply browsing in the same direction as …. but he thought that sort of excuse was a load of whatzit.

    Oh dear.

  237. Hell YEAH, if Trayvon started to go “apesh*t” because George wouldn’t take “no” for an answer, and George began to think that Trayvon was gonna tell the cops, who were gonna show up in a minute, what the real cause of the confrontation had been, George woulda HAD TO kill Trayvon to prevent that from coming out, wouldn’t he?

  238. George was in treatment for ADHD, according to his interviews with Serino and the voice-stress test guy. His meds would have been prescribed by an M.D. He probably was seeing a psychiatrist; those notes should be subpoenaed. Perhaps Corey already saw him. NOT that George would have said anything to a psychiatrist to admit to anything that he wanted to hide, even from himself, but just sayin…

    With all this recent furor over the psychiatrist that James Holmes saw prior to his having been accused of a crime, it would seem natural to comb through George’s psychiatric records for at least signs of the following:

    1 – elements of free-floating rage
    2 – feelings of intense longing for recognition as a “little hero”
    3 – irrational fears
    4 – memory problems severe enough to make him forget the names of streets in his own neighborhood
    5 – feelings of being misunderstood and denied his proper privileges, of having his authority challenged for no reason

    and like that.

  239. Back on the old “new witness comes forward” thread about the Zimmerman case, a commenter said:

    “The point sweet cakes is TrayVon was a thug want to be. There ain’t no chance of that happening now. Now look at his mommie taking advantage of his name. Can you believe that she wants to make money off of his memory? Creepy people doing creepy things.”

    HE meant of course that Trayvon Martin was doing a creepy thing by being a thug when George Zimmerman killed him, and that his surviving mother was doing a creepy thing by trademarking his name when the press started to get into the case big-time. Could we believe that the mom “wants to make money off of his memory”?

    Now, we have George Zimmerman charged with murder and his mom and dad going public asking for money. Hmmmm. Can we believe it? Is it creepy people doing creepy things? Or is it righteous people asking other righteous (and charitable) people to give them money to defend their son’s righteous privileges to kill somebody whose parents they have chosen to pray for? (Notice, these parents did not make a donation to Trayvon Martin’s funeral fund BEFORE THE PRESS GOT INTO THE CASE!)

  240. BettyKath, I think it was me. But not in the context of “maybe he’s a sexual predator,” rather, in the context of, “Why would Trayvon Martin wait to see what nice talk Zimmerman might come up with, when he could very easily be afraid that Zimmerman was, for example, a predatory pedophile because kids are warned about stranger danger and because it was a dark night and a guy was following him?” In fact, I just went back to the old threads — before you asked the question — because I remembered that I had suggested that at one point, and the suggestion I had made that went to the possibility of fear in the mind of Trayvon Martin on this issue was met with people (except for Idealist707) basically thinking I was a bit too paranoid. I found one example of what was going through my mind then:

    I said, on the “New Witness reportedly comes forward” thread:
    “Mr. Turley, that wouldn’t have changed much in my opinion. After all, Martin had a right to respond with force, INCLUDING DEADLY FORCE, if he was frightened. Don’t YOU think he was frightened? I would have been. To me, Zimmerman looks like someone who was up to no good — maybe on drugs — and he definiately SAW Martin before he got out of the car and then he got OUT OF THE CAR so he was acting aggressively. In fact, I would say that Zimmerman should probably turn himself in to some police agency somewhere to protect himself because absolutely and without doubt, ANYBODY who sees him NOW has every right to feel terribly afraid of him (he still has his gun) and therefore, anybody might stand their ground and kill him in self defense, at least in any one of those states with the “stand your ground” law.

    “In my book, if a guy looks a bit like a violent wife-batterer, a lonely predatory pedophile, a mentally disturbed person, a hoodie-hater, or what some folks call an “angry white man NOS,” I’m scared of him when he approaches me for no good reason.”

    In fact, I had (on some thread) suggested that Trayvon Martin would have had a full public school education type exposure to the “Officer Friendly” stuff telling kids never to go along with strangers who tell them they need their help or cooperation, etc. Many people responded to me to downplay this consideration, but I didn’t, because I have always taught the kids I had in day-care or any other environment, the following rules:

    * If you don’t know someone and they appear to be starting up with you while you have no parent or caretaker around, don’t engage in conversation, and leave as soon as possible;

    * If someone approaches you in a way that makes you feel scared, don’t try to be polite, just GET OUT OF THERE;

    * If an adult tells you to come with him, to follow him, to get in a car, to help him with something in an area you’re not in, refuse and run.

    * If ANYTHING makes you uncomfortable or scared, don’t be embarrassed to scream bloody murder and worry about the rest of it later.

    In fact, in day-care, we practiced some of these scenarios so the kids could get over their embarrassment and so forth. I did this because I would take them to a park where there were lots of play areas, and I couldn’t keep each kid in view at all times while the others were going in and out of tunnels and structures, and I took them to the pool, the petting zoo, and some interactive museums. I couldn’t keep an eye on six kids at the same time and still let them have fun. I expected that all my teachings and all “Officer Friendly” stuff and all their own parents’ warnings would have lasted throughout their childhoods and into adulthood as well.

  241. I put that comment up on the “New Witness” thread on March 26, 2012 at about 6:57 a.m. This was before George Zimmerman was charged. About an hour later, Woosty cautioned me:

    Malisha1, March 26, 2012 at 6:57 am
    clean up your fear before it becomes Malice….Malicia’

    But I wasn’t expressing my own fear that Zimmerman was a predatory pedophile; I was expressing the idea that Trayvon could very well have thought that was a possibility when he faced Zimmerman that night. I didn’t try to argue the point with Woosty because my respect for Woosty is so great that I simply took her admonition at face value, if my memory serves me. Later in that thread and others, I have gone right ahead and admitted malice and even admitted that I chose the name “Malisha” to prank on that meme.

  242. BettyKath, thank you for speculating that the idea arose from SonofThunder, and maybe it did, on perhaps another thread. He is a damn good profiler, in my opinion. I’d like to be that good.

  243. Malisha, I saw the sexual predator in more than one comment as a passing thought by the poster(s). I don’t know that Zimmerman was into being a sexual predator that night b/c the cops were on their way. Looking at porno photos doesn’t mean that one is necessarily a sexual predator, but it does suggest a latent (hidden from himself), or at least hidden (from others), homosexuality. Man, his head is so screwed up. I guess that’s why he is seeing a shrink.

  244. BettyKath, I also don’t think George was hoping for a quickie when he tailed Trayvon, because he had called the police and because he REALLY wanted to bring Trayvon (Trayvon-the-criminal) IN to show he was a good cop-to-be. I have already spoken about what I THINK his motive really was. But I think his secret sex life is relevant, because it does show that one possible fear Trayvon would be justified in having was that a predatory pedophile had spotted him, slowed down in his vehicle, and then hunted him down, for a perverted reason. I was supposing this not because I thought it provided information about George, but because it provided information about Trayvon, while people were saying, “How come the kid didn’t just answer George’s questions and then this wouldn’t have happened?”

    Trayvon could well have known that Zimmerman was armed, from the get-go. Had George taken out his gun before even finding Trayvon, he certainly would not have admitted that to the police when they showed up. ALSO George knew how long it usually took for the police to get to his neighborhood from the station; he had that information in his mind and he told them NOT where he would wait for them, but that they should call him once they showed up, so he could guide them AT THAT TIME.

    In fact, it is possible George did not expect the police when they DID show up because he had not told them where to find him; he might have expected a call from them, instead of their actual appearance on the scene.

    I really wish his cell phone records had already been disclosed.

  245. BettyKath, I think George is seeing a shrink as a strategic matter. He had to have been seeing a shrink at one point in the past, of course, to get the Adderall and other prescriptions. But if all else fails, maybe O’Mara’s gonna try to buy time for George saying he’s got PTSD and can’t cooperate with his lawyer to prepare for trial or some such nonsense. We have a lot to learn about what will happen from here on out.

    George said, on the Hannity interview, that he was going out for groceries “after we tutored the children” or something like that. So I wonder if there are any witnesses (children, their parents) to tell the prosecutor when they last were at George’s house that Sunday, and what they observed about George in the few hours before he set out for the grocery store.

    Hours before he set out he tutored little Black kids?
    Hours before he set out he checked into the Black gay porn sites?

    UH OH.

  246. With the cops on the way, I doubt that Zimmerman was seeking physical sex. He was most likely into a power thrill.
    However, if he was into that sort of porn, and had been viewing it earlier, some additional ‘freaky’ might have been apparent in his body language and face when he finally encountered Martin.

    The porn thing would be an objectification of young black males.
    The ‘punks’ thing would be another type of objectification.
    Incidents like the tormenting of the ME work colleague and the the claimed childhood sex abuse of a younger female point to ‘bully’ in his makeup.

    Quite apart from the following in the truck and on the ground, Zimmerman might have been giving off very freaky vibes when approaching Martin.

    And of course he had totally forgotten that he was carrying a gun until the very last second when he felt Martin reaching for … ‘Wow. He’s got his hand in my waistband…. cock? ….. oh … not my cock… my gun…. goodness I forgot that was there – and that it’s already cocked so all I got to do is pull the trigger.’

  247. Quit making George into a folk hero. What did he do that you haven’t already said that he’d do. Viva las locos’.

  248. Damn Yankee, George has no immunity; he’s been on TV talking about al the good he has done and all the righteous he is and all the wrongs of Trayvon Martin. He’s fair game everywhere. And since all the bad stuff about Trayvon comes ONLY from the mouth of George Zimmerman, along the lines of “we defend those who can no longer defend themselves,” I think it’s a good activity for any of us who care about the life interest of Trayvon Martin to actually challenge every false word Zimmerman says, or has said, about the evening of 2/26/2012.

    I personally believe that George is a liar and that his whole story of what went down that night is false. I personally believe that Trayvon Martin had every reason to believe he was in grave danger and to act accordingly that night, no matter what little injuries his (ultimately unsuccessful) self-defense inflicted on his killer. So looking at Trayvon’s perspective when “here comes the creepy guy again” was happening, I think I’m on pretty firm territory.

    What the FBI finds about George’s porn habits is information that gives us more data to form a clear impression of what (a) happened that night in physical reality; and what (b) Trayvon Martin might have thought was happening to him, and was about to happen to him, in the few minutes before he died.

  249. I was just thinking about questions that a proper polygraph operator might have asked him on 2/26/2012 or 2/27/2012 to really try to figure out if he was telling the truth — and of course, he could always offer to take a polygraph test NOW to show that he is still being honest with the American Public:

    Question: Do you watch any gay pornography?
    Answer: Nossir.

    Question: Ever fantasize about having sex with a young gay Black man?
    Answer: Nossir.

    Question: When you saw the victim earlier this evening [or “last evening”] did you think he looked hot?
    Answer: Nossir.

    Question: Did you ever get criticized by your mother for not being man enough?
    Answer: Nossir.

    Question: Was your father cold and distant?
    Answer: Nossir.

    Question: Did you ever inappropriately touch any of the kids you mentored or tutored for sexual pleasure?
    Answer: Nossir.

    Question: Did you get out of your car earlier this evening [or “last evening”] in order to confront the victim and restrain him and bring him into the police like you were some kind of hero?
    Answer: Nossir.

    Question: Were you ever ordered by the court to pay a $10,000 fine for not showing up for your deposition?
    Answer: Nossir:

    Question: Did you ever disobey a court order and thereby do something that would amount to unjust enrichment?
    Answer: Nossir.

    Question: Did you shoot and kill the victim because he was challenging your authority to restrain him?
    Answer: Nossir.

    Question: Have any gay porn sites on your credit card bills?
    Answer: Nossir.

    Question: Did you watch any gay porn today [or “yesterday”]?
    Answer: Nossir.

    Question: Ever had some doubts about your sexuality or manhood?
    Answer: Nossir.


    At least we can put to bed that nagging question about whether George is a racist or not. He’s NOT. When he fantasizes having sex with young men, he wants them to be either white or Black, it doesn’t matter.

    This also makes me wonder about the actual relationship between him and Joe Oliver — was it intimate?


    This does, however, give a different look to George’s possible acceptance of a prison sentence to get a plea bargain, doesn’t it? I mean, if you want to actually get into sexual activity with lots of “thug-like” gay Black men, where would you expect to go for opportunities to do that?

    “Oh please, Judge, don’t throw me into the Briar Patch!”

  250. “pay per view – he didn’t get there by accident.”

    Zimmerman was only paying in the same direction.
    It’s all perfectly innocent.
    It wasn’t illegal.

  251. “I mean, if you want to actually get into sexual activity with lots of “thug-like” gay Black men, where would you expect to go for opportunities to do that? ”


    You fail to understand the man.
    He’s a bully. The last thing he wants is to be bullied.
    — well, maybe just a little bit, once in a while for a thrill, but at heart he wants to be on top.

  252. Yeah, Sling, you are right, I do misunderstand the man.

    No matter how hard I try, I cannot understand how a man who did something he did, and who was initially given a “get out of jail free” ticket for doing it, and who later was arrested after a national scandal arose, and who was caught in one lie after another, and who got his own wife in trouble and his own parents into financial ruin, and who killed an unarmed kid and then blamed it on the victim, can still stand up there and decide to go on National Television playing the victim and boo-hooing about his being talked about unkindly, how he can fail to be humiliated and embarrassed about his cowardice and dishonesty, and how he can shamelessly play the “god card” with a straight face.

    Sorry, I have to plead guilty: I DO MISUNDERSTAND THE MAN.

  253. Re: Trying to understand the kind of person George Zimmerman is.

    His cousin, Witness #9, said that he basically bullied her throughout her childhood from 6 until 16 and that after that, she never saw him again. The really interesting part of this story is that she finally told her parents, who confronted George. George said “I’m sorry” and left the restaurant they had met in, totally avoiding the situation, not offering any genuine apology, never trying to find out what effect he had had on his cousin’s life, not taking the opportunity to ask for help to stop doing things to others that could be harmful. His own family reached out to him to help him stop being a problem in other people’s lives and he rejected it because he would have to face unwelcome thoughts about HIMSELF.

    But here’s the real kicker: HIS OWN PARENTS.

    The cousin said:
    “I tried so hard to forget it all and to make it go away that I even forgot the good stuff in life,” she said.

    Mr. Zimmerman’s parents were also told about what had happened, she said. After she and her parents confronted Mr. Zimmerman, they did not see him again.

    So. Robert and Gladys were told that over a period of ten years, their son had done something to his own cousin that was having a negative effect on the cousin’s life. Did they work with their relatives to come to some real conscientious resolution of the problem? Did they deal with it?

    My guess is that they chose not to have anything more to do with these family members and they chose to sweep it all under the rug. The Zimmerman’s house has big rugs. I hope some of them are repossessed in the financial fall-out from their son’s violent crime.

  254. OK, this is kinda weird. A website called “SanfordDailyNews” printed a story Saturday (July 28, 2012) saying that “on Saturday” there was this big revelation from the FBI about Zimmerman. It included the following languagge:


    “As the FBI closes in on commencing the initial phase of what is foreseen as a long and grueling investigation into the fatal shooting of Miami Gardens teen Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida, investigators have begun to scour the residence of George Zimmerman, 27, in search of key details and evidence that may shed light on the circumstances surrounding the February 26 shooting that claimed the life of Martin, 17. “It’s a process that must be respected and given time to unravel itself,” stated lead FBI investigator, Marques Graves Saturday afternoon. However dismaying, Florida state prosecutor Angela Corey could soon face an ultimatum once Zimmerman’s Aspiron laptop is admitted into evidence at the trial’s opening arguments.

    “What chief FBI investigator Hallen Jameson stumbled upon Saturday afternoon generated a rift in the initial search of Zimmerman’s property. Among facebook messenger, eBay biddings, and Bank of America online banking, also dwelt a Firefox Mozilla browser history containing URLs to several pornographic websites aimed toward gay Black men. The sites visited were,, and, to name a few, with the latter being visited four times just hours prior to the shooting.”


    This doesn’t get confirmed and it doesn’t get denied. It just hangs out there in some kind of ethernet limbo.

    Does anybody know:

    1. What exactly IS the “” website and whose is it?

    2. What is this about?

    3. Why aren’t there a bunch of denials and attacks or — in the alternative — a bunch of confirmations and further reports?

    4. Is this a way to advertise these gay porn websites?

    and all like that…

  255. The report seemed strange, coming out when it did, but at first reading I assumed the SanfordDailyNews website was the publication of the local newspaper. Now I have re-read this thing a few times because it seemed so strange that it had no repercussions in the larger media outlets, and I have come to the conclusion that it is a fake and a fraud, and that there is no such data “stumbled upon” by the FBI or anybody else.

    It’s somebody capitalizing on the fact that people often google the name “George Zimmerman” so they are able to get people to click on them a lot.

    It does seem, however, that this particular form of Internet fraud should be actionable. Who knows? If it is actionable, I hope it ends up getting punished. Not for George’s sake (really, what he did getting him false bad press as well as true bad press doesn’t make me weep big tears for the guy) but for the sake of at least trying to prevent fraud.

    Of course, I also think the purveyors of the Trayvon Martin targets should have been punished using the law, or even using “the law” — but they probably got a free card on their hideous and immoral behavior.

  256. Malisha, Thanks for the correction. And you’ve done a good job of making sure we all know of it. But it’s still valid that TM may have considered that GZ did something like this even if he did not.

  257. Oh I definitely think it would be very high on the list of things Trayvon Martin was thinking about when the creepy guy persisted in following him and got out of his car. I also think it quite possible that George had his gun out early on and was trying to get Martin to “come quietly” —

  258. I also think it quite possible that George had his gun out early on and was trying to get Martin to “come quietly” –
    Right. He didn’t carry enough authority to do it without his gun.

  259. I just ran across something that had piqued my interest several times in the history of this case: O’Mara’s explanation to the press (and the court) about why his client lied to Judge Lester about the money at the first bail hearing. O’Mara described George as being young, confused, and distrustful.

    Well, wasn’t Trayvon Martin “young, confused and distrustful” on the night when a creepy guy was following him first in the car, then on foot, and it was dark, and he didn’t know the guy? He was certainly younger than George Zimmerman that night; obviously he was confused because he stayed on the cell phone chatting rather than calling 911 about the situation; and he had to be distrustful because he was being approached by a stranger in the dark.

    Hmmmmm. AND at the time that George is described as “young, confused and distrustful,” he had counsel, able counsel. But at the time that Trayvon Martin was “young, confused and distrustful,” he was all alone in a place far from home.

  260. Trying to say with the thread title, here’s a sort of lie-detector test.

    The position of Zimmerman’s truck, when he left it, has always been a mystery. It still is.

    In the Walk-through, Zimmerman indicates that he drove into Twin Trees on the hells of Martin, and therefore parked on the North side facing East – towards the path.
    (1) Up to then, the only indication was Taaffe asserting that Zimmerman told him that he had been parked facing the Clubhouse (West).
    (2) Analysis of the Clubhouse CCTV indicates that a car drove into Twin Trees, made a U-turn and parked facing the Clubhouse – right at the time that Zimmerman made his call.

    I had wondered if the police had a record of all vehicles in the vicinity.
    Just a while back, I found in

    “State Attorney’s Office investigator Dale Gilbreath memo on interview Officer Mike Bernosky April 2nd

    He arrived after everything was stabilized. He assisted with crime scene tape. He ran two car tags to attempt to identify the victim as he had no id. The tags came back to two people in the complex.
    He went back to his assignment.
    He did not prepare a supplemental report.”

    Presumably only two cars were parked on street as opposed to on driveways.
    If he checked Twin Trees, then one would be Zimmerman’s
    Might he remember where it was parked – and much more importantly from the point of view of credibility – which way it was facing.
    It might help his memory by noting that if it was facing East – as Zimmerman indicated in the Walk-through – it might have been apparent to a traffic cop that it was parked on the ‘wrong’ side of the road.
    He may have been paying attention only to registrations, but I wonder if anyone thought to ask him once/if the conflict was noted.

    I have a suspicion that there is/was a Ford pickup truck parked routinely just beyond the start of the path (at the top of the South-running section of Twin trees). It appears in a number of area photos and in the Walk-through video. I think it is also the one that features in the Google Maps/Earth satellite images.
    This might possible be the second tag – which would be a downer for anyone wishing the second car was Taaffe’s:)

  261. About the VSA (voice stress analysis, being incorrectly called a “lie detector test”): the administrator of same (I’ll call him Q) says:

    I understand you want a VSA.

    (GZ affirms)

    I’m going to grant your wish.

    TIME OUT: Now Goerge has done his “re-enactment with Mark Osterman’s help and now he’s asked for the VSA, presumably with Mark Osterman’s advice. Probably Mark Osterman or Chief Lee chose Q to administer it, too.

    George narrates: saw the guy walking slow; looking into houses; arose his suspicion; not hard-core athlete; not running in the rain; drove past; lost visual contact; police asked him to get street name; he didn’t know it; police said “we need to know what house you’re at”; TM walked around GZ’s car; windows were up; TM disappeared; operator asked “we need to know what exact address you’re at”; “we need to know what address you’re at”; in the heat of the moment GZ gave his home address; got out of his car; saw him walk through and make a right; “I knew if I walked through I could get the exact house number and street”; walked through; “he’s not here any more”; “I had gone to Retreat View Circle”; told officer meet him at the car; “halfway through he appeared out of nowhere”; told them to meet him at his car, hung up, put phone away; heard “you got a problem?”; turned, saw him, so went for his phone to call 911; didn’t have it in his pocket; got punched in nose and fell backwards, TM got on top; punched face; screaming for help; “shut the f*ck up”; kept yelling, tried to sit up, took my head, concrete, many times, afraid I’d lose consciousness; screaming for help; covered nose with one hand and mouth with the other; didn’t want him to keep screaming; squirming; felt like his head was on concrete; shifted; jacket came up; exposed my fire-arm; sat up, looked, “You’re gonna die tonight m-f’er; pinched arm, got gun, fired one shot; sat back, “You got me,” thought he was saying that he heard the shot and was giving up and I ended up on top of him, face down, thought he still had a weapon, I said stop, stop, don’t move; he said aaah, aaah, cursing; somebody came, maybe a cop; still had the gun in my hand, “are you a cop?” No. I’ll call 911, “I don’t need you to call 911 I need you to help me restrain him”; got up off him; he stopped; I holstered my weapon; flashlight; “are you the police?” “Who shot him?” “I did,”; “I did”; raised jacket, my gun’s right there, hands over head, don’t move; cuffed me, brought hands down, gun’s right there, handcuffs; then he took my gun; checked on him first; peroxide; felt nose; nose broken; need one, maybe two stitches on back of head; take him for questioning; there first or CFR first? Question him first; got in back of car; there was a guy; blood in my eyes; saw someone looking out of sliding glass door; possible bystander there; I was not communicating with the police at that time.

    Q: Disappeared — you hung up?

    GZ: Shortly after.

    Q: you walked through where he had disappeared? you went for your phone?

    GZ: Yes. I don’t have a problem. Punched nose. Every time he punched me in the nose…Bystander; gun still in holster;

    Q: You did not take out the gun earlier?

    Q: You don’t know this guy?

    Q: WHy’d you try to maintain [visual contact]?

    GZ: Tell the police where…

    Q: You did not feel yourself endangered?

    Q: You got where he was at…

    GZ: These guys are known to just run, they know the neighborhood. I told the non-emergency — he’s gone.

    * * *

    GZ: On the ground; he saw the gun, my right side, his hand slid down my chest; you’re gonna die M-F’r;

    [at 41:43 of the tape]

    GZ: His hands; he took one off [didn’t know which one]; “you’re gonna die m-f’er”; I felt his hand going down the side of my chest and–


    [Q interrupts and asks something — ]

    GZ: resumes speaking: “To be honest with you, the whole time, I forgot that I had the gun. WHen he said that I was gonna die and then I felt him brushing, it automatically clicked that he was going for —

    [Q interrupts again]

    GZ: One hand was going for the gun, he took his hand off my mouth, I grabbed my gun, I got to it first; just fired it; I made sure it wasn’t — my hand — in the way — his other hand was still on my face; all his weight, on my face; creating a crevice with his body; slid; to go for my gun;

    Q: left or right hand?

    GZ: I don’t recall which one it was —

    GZ: That’s when it clicked that I HAD MY GUN –; went past my other hand; he’s on me, not a distance —

    Q: You don’t have hardly any play before the gun was on his chest–

    GZ: You got me, you got it, whatever. Just that quickly too; felt like eternity; I thought the police; forever;

    then they have an intermission.


    Q asks GZ “what do you call him?” “The guy?” OK.

    Then Q calls Trayvon Martin “the guy” during the VSA test.


    What comes out of this whole interview, IMO, are three things:

    1. George wanted the VSA because he thought it would help him sell his story.

    2. The VSA administrator was very gentle and friendly with George and wanted the test to come out as George would like.

    3. George sold this guy a bill of goods, including the idiotic idea that he only remembered he had his gun with him (it “clicked”) when Trayvon Martin’s hand reached for the gun and George heard, “You’re gonna die tonight m-f’r.”


    It ain’t pretty; it ain’t smart, but hey, what is?

    Q: Why’d you try to maintain visual

  262. Lack of gunshot residue: emt’s cleaned him up and he washed up in the police station before interrogation which seems to have preceded the taking of pictures and other evidence.

    reading officer interviews: GZ left alone sitting in car with the door open. A gun on the front seat. Is this procedure?

  263. Their procedure was to do whatever seemed right in order to exonerate Zimmerman. That was their approach and their methods were consistent with it. Had they treated this like a crime and investigated it like a crime, the picture would have been much different.

  264. There’s something about Osterman.

    includes the report of an interview of Osterman on April 26th by FDLE and FBI

    Zimmerman & wife were taken by Osterman to his home immediately Z was released on February 27th. They stayed with him for “4 to 6 weeks”.
    Osterman appears to have been mentoring Zimmerman for some time before the event.
    That mentoring would obviously have continued over those weeks. The events would have been gone through over and over. A story would have been built up.
    Osterman would appear to have been accepted by Sanford PD as at least a quasi ‘one of their own’

    Some points from that interview:
    He recounts Zimmerman’s description of events

    “While on the phone with the SPD dispatcher, Zimmerman made eye contact with Martin and at one point Martin came within one arms-length of Zimmerman’s car. Zimmerman lost visual contact with Martin and Zimmerman got out of his car and attempted to locate Martin. When Zimmerman could not find Martin, he ended his phone call with the SPD dispatcher, placed his cellphone in his pocket and was returning to his vehicle when Martin confronted Zimmerman”

    “eye contact” and “came within one arms-length” appears to the high-point of that phase. It would correspond to the point in hte call recording where Zimmerman appears to panic momentarily. It falls far short of “circling”.

    The story has Zimmerman starting back for his truck immediately on finishing the call.
    This again,confirms the damming question of the 2 minutes 30 seconds between the end of that call and the first 911 call.
    It’s a 20 second walk to the point where he says he was confronted.
    So… it can only be that he was searching for Martin for nearly 2 minutes after the call ended.

    If it came to a trial, Zimmerman could try to account for the 2 minutes by saying that he had forgotten up to now that he just stood at Retreat View circle for about 2 minutes waiting for the patrol car to ring him, and then grew tired of it.
    His problem there is that he’s consistently claimed that he started right back.

    Osterman’s account of the struggle for the gun introduces more detail that one might expect from someone who felt that they were just about to lose conciousness.
    Martin’s butt is on Zimmerman’s stomach, with his knees beside Zimmerman’s ribs.
    It is credible that Martin might have become aware of something hard on Zimmerman’s hip. It might be a stretch for him to immediately assume that this was a gun. It might as well have been a wallet or a cell-phone.
    And yet, the story has Martin reaching for this hard thng that could be anything and saying “You’re gonna die now Mother F***er”.
    How was Martin going to kill him? What if the hard thing was just a wallet or a cell phone? He had no way of knowing that it was a little girlie gun. It’s a small weapon. It’s not a dirty great Magnum or whatever. Was he going to batter Zimmerman with a wallet? Why bother reaching down for that when he had a perfectly good drinks can?

    It also seems a stretch that either would be able to reach between Martin’s thighs and Zimmerman’s ribs for the gun, with Zimmerman simply “slapping” Martin’s hand away.

  265. All four (different) stories about the “problem — punch — mounting — headslamming — wiggling — shooting” scene are physically impossible. We have:

    1. He jumped me as I was going back to my vehicle and slammed my head and tried to kill me so I had to shoot him;

    2. He appeared and asked me my problem and gave me a chance to say I had no problem and THEN punched me, knocked me down, mounted me, slam-headed me and punch-nosed me more, leaned on my mouth and nose, slid his hand down my side saying he’d kill me, and then got shot and said “you got me” and kinda fell back or something and I leaped on him and spread his hands out and then someone came.

    3. He came out of the bushes and asked my problem and let me say no problem and I reached for my cell phone and he punched me, knocked me down, tried to silence my screams because he knew the police were coming, and slammed my head so much I was disoriented, but then he told me he was gonna kill me and I remembered I had a gun so I shot it, and he seemed to give up because he heard the shot, and he kinda fell back but still struggled, and I said stop stop, and asked someone to help me restrain him, and at some point perhaps he died.

    4. He came out of nowhere while I was returning to my vehicle and he demanded what was my problem and I said I didn’t have a problem and I tried to call 911 when he punched me in the nose and broke my nose and I fell or he pushed me and he jumped on me and mounted me and he punched me over and over while I was screaming for help about 50 times and he was slamming my head on the concrete so I tried to wriggle away so that my head would hit the grass instead of the concrete so it wouldn’t hurt so much and I was afraid to lose consciousness and he kept telling me to shut the f*ck up because he didn’t want the police to hear me screaming help help because he knew by that time that I had already called the police and while I wriggled to protect my head he was leaning his whole weight against my nose and it was excruciating because my nose was already broken and as I wriggled my jacket came up and he must have seen my gun and then it “clicked” to me that I had my gun on me and meanwhile he took one hand — I don’t know which one — off my mouth and he reached down my chest to grab my gun and he said “You’re gonna die tonight m-f*cker” and I reached for my gun at the same time he reached for it and I shot one shot while I was being careful not to shoot my other hand with the gun I was holding in one hand and then he said “You got me” or “you got it” or something like that and he kind of sat up or maybe I pushed him to get up from under him and he fell back face forward [huh?] and I thought he had been hitting me with something so I spread out his hands to make sure he couldn’t keep hitting me with something and then somebody came and I asked if I could call my wife and the police said no so I asked the bystander to call my wife and I don’t know who all was out there although I know everybody in the neighborhood…

    Got that?

    Every one of these scenarios is physically impossible. Also, every one of them presumes that George Zimmerman has NO HANDS until he reaches for his gun, when suddenly, he has TWO. (One shoots, the other tries to stay out of the way so as to not get shot.)

  266. You know, reading the four explanations Zimmerman gave for what happened that night, two things occur to me:

    1. As he tells his story more, it gets bigger; and

    2. He doesn’t seem to try to account for absurdities. He just leaves them alone.


    * It is absurd to suggest that he got out of the car to look for a street sign;
    * It is absurd to suggest that the police wanted him to find an address;
    * It is absurd to suggest that a thug who wanted to kill him would first ask him an aggressive question;
    * It is absurd in the extreme to suggest that he lay there being beaten without using his hands until the idea “GUN” appeared in his mind;
    * It is absurd to suggest that he did not realize he had shot and wounded Trayvon Martin when he did;
    * It is absurd to suggest that he was still trying to restrain Martin AFTER shooting him.

    Any time anyone asked about these absurdities (Serino did), George contented himself with, “I don’t know” or “I don’t recall.”

    The two (“don’t recall” and “don’t know”) because what George was trying to remember was NOT what actually happened, but what he was supposed to say to back up the story he and/or Mark Osterman and/or Frank Taaffe constructed. Or maybe the collective I.Q.s of all three do not add up to enough to come up with a really non-absurd explanation for what happened that night to try to magically pull “self-defense” out of the physical evidence hat.

  267. I finally found some time to add a page on Zimmerman’s Hannity interview to my blog

    Some of the older pages are still in need of updating.
    My irritation at looking for time v. a tendency towards perfectionism leads me to blow off some steam with lines like:

    What did he do?
    He says that he reached for his phone. Just like Dirty Harry. “Go ahead punk. Make my call.”

  268. Shano, thanks for the link.

    O’Mara knows that this hearing will be a loser. He is doing what is called “setting the case up for appeal” by making the motion, having the judge deny it, and then after the whole thing is over in the trial court (where he cannot get rid of Judge Lester), he will say that BECAUSE Lester did not recuse and because Lester was prejudiced, George did not get due process and therefore, once all the state proceedings are done (and everyone in the press is on to new stuff), he will bring a federal habeas corpus action claiming that GZ was convicted in an unconstitutional proceeding, so he can get a “discharge” and be relieved of the whole thing in a federal court.

    At this point that would appear to be the best legal strategy.

    It will not be hard for the prosecutor to win the SYG hearing; I doubt much is needed considering the physical evidence that reveals that George’s three versions of the events that evening are not terribly credible and not even internally consistent. This might be a good practice run for O’Mara too, to see how badly George screws up his testimony, even if he gives it. I would expect to see some voice expert testify that George was in fact yelling “HELP” and some medical expert testify that George’s “capillary” scratches were “serious injuries” to borrow a phrase from Professor Turley.

    They might also go “broken nose” again, even though THEY chose not to get an x-ray when it was freshly allegedly broken. I think they believe “two cops saying ‘broken nose’ in a 24-hour period equals self-defense.”

    That is, Black kids aren’t allowed to punch you in the nose before you murder them. You know the rules of the road.

  269. YEP, George Zimmerman was frantic to bring in his “suspect” when he killed innocent Trayvon Marton on 2/26/2012. A mistaken evidence dump has revealed his academic records. In spite of the fact that Mark Osterman’s wife had officiated at a “graduation party” for George BEFORE HE ACTUALLY COMPLETED HIS SCHOOLING, he was on

    * * *

    HE WAS ON * * *

    Academic Probation!

    He would not have graduated and gotten hired by the cops. He needed to show them he could bring in a criminal, so he could become a cop. He went after Trayvon Martin that night to bring in his suspect and get to be a little hero.

    He chose a non-criminal, of course but hey, what the hell, it was dark…

  270. It is interesting how the “SYG Hearing” is being presented in the press. It’s being presented as if it is almost a shoe-in for George to get away without a trial. Nothing could be farther from the truth, although obviously they got some law professor to mis-state what the law actually says.

    “Elizabeth Megale, a Savannah Law School professor who has studied Florida’s stand-your-ground law, says it doesn’t matter whether Zimmerman was the aggressor or when his fear was triggered.

    “Most people don’t understand, she says, that the law is broadly written. Zimmerman’s broken nose and lacerations on his skull are evidence that he would have been in fear, she says.”


    First of all, who is Elizabeth Megale? She’s no Alan Dershowitz. She went to undergraduate school and law school at Mercer College. The law school there is named after Walter F. George, a senator who voted not just against civil rights, but even against the anti-lynching law!

    Megale claims two things that are peculiar, considering the caselaw coming from the SYG decisions AND the plain language of the law itself. She claims:

    1. It doesn’t matter who the aggressor was in the fight or “when his fear was triggered” and she claims

    2. Zimmerman’s broken nose and lacerations on his skull are evidence that he would have been in fear.”

    Um, no and no.

    First of all, think of how the law would work if you could kill and get away with it SO LONG AS YOU WERE REALLY SCARED regardless of WHEN in the encounter you got scared and regardless of WHO WAS THE AGGRESSOR when the fear was triggered.

    Think of that. I could get a gun, wait for an early riser to leave his house for his daily constitutional, run up to him, challenge him and tell him I’m intending to kill him, then when he uses a karate chop or a violent kick to try to disarm me, I can get scared and shoot him dead, and it was OK because I really was scared! Huh?

    OK, but to the clear language of the law:

    Here’s the SYG law:

    776.12: A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

    (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

    (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to 776.13;

    ————- so the word FEAR has not yet appeared ——–
    but 776.13 in turn says:

    (1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

    (a) The person against whom the defensive force was used [THAT WOULD BE TRAYVON MARTIN] was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and [NOT THE CASE]

    (b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred. [NOT THE CASE]

    (2) The presumption [OF REASONABLE FEAR] set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:

    (a) The person against whom the defensive force is used [AGAIN, TRAYVON MARTIN] has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or [YES, TRAYVON MARTIN HAD A RIGHT TO BE WHERE HE WAS]

    (b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; [INAPPLICABLE] or

    (c) The person who uses defensive force [THAT WOULD BE GEORGE ZIMMERMAN] is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or

    (d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer. [INAPPLICABLE]

    (3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony. [AND THIS WOULD APPLY IF, AND ONLY IF, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN COULD PROVE HE WAS “ATTACKED”]

    (4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence. [INAPPLICABLE]

    (5) As used in this section, the term:

    (a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.

    (b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.

    (c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.

    So, taking out all the inapplicable language, and changing the “person who” to either George, or Trayvon, as the case may be, here’s what we have:

    776.12: GEORGE WAS justified in using force, except deadly force, against TRAYVON when and to the extent that GEORGE reasonably believed that such conduct was necessary to defend himself against TRAYVON’S imminent use of unlawful force. However, GEORGE WAS justified in the use of deadly force and DID not have a duty to retreat if:

    (1) HE reasonably believed that such force was necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

    (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to 776.13;


    (1) GEORGE WAS presumed to have held a reasonable fear … when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

    (a) TRAYVON was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a house or vehicle;

    (b) GEORGE knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred;


    (a) TRAYVON had a right to be where he was; or

    (b) GEORGE was trying to REMOVE TRAYVON although TRAYVON had the right to be where he was; or

    (c) GEORGE was engaged in an unlawful activity or …

    (d) TRAYVON was a law enforcement officer (not) or

    (3) GEORGE, while not doing anything unlawful such as trying to restrain TRAYVON or remove TRAYVON or threatening TRAYVON with a gun or otherwise, WAS ATTACKED —


    So, to break it down further, George would have the protection of the SYG law if, and only if:

    * * *

    Either Trayvon had NO RIGHT TO BE WHERE HE WAS
    George was NOT engaged in any unlawful activity AND was ATTACKED.

    So it DOES matter who started the fight. Even if George started to get scared for his life during a struggle, IF HE STARTED THE FIGHT then he was engaged in an unlawful activity at the time that he began to be afraid. So the presumption of fear is OUT and all that is left is:

    George has to prove that it is likely that (a) he did not start any fight at all and (b) he did not threaten Trayvon Martin at all and (c) Trayvon Martin attacked him.

    So it is not true that fear alone would exonerate George, regardless of who was the aggressor. That’s a nonsensical reading of the law. I’ll check into the cases that have gone up on appeal in Florida and report back on the ways this works out.

    But I think the good Professor (who was a public defender and obviously has a defense-oriented position and who likely worked with the ex-public-defender whom O’Mara has brought on the case with him) Megale is wrong on this point that fear alone will get George off.

    Heavens above, if any of us can kill and walk when we’re scared, regardless of what we did to GET scared, god help us and our neighbors.

  271. Malisha,

    I think this is the part that is pertinent:

    776.12:….a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

    (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;

    This doesn’t say anything about fear, but it does say belief. It doesn’t say anything about who is the aggressor. So Zimmerman can follow Martin and create fear in him and then, when he and Martin come together in confrontation, regardless of who starts it, and he gets a boo-boo, he can kill him. There seem to be no exceptions. Scary.

    776.13 is the reference if you go to the “or” and point 2. of 776.12.

    I’m not knowledgeable about how to read these laws, they’re all in that strange language, legalese, so maybe there other rules on how to read this.

    You’re much more familiar with this than I am. Am I wrong? Why/How?

  272. too many pronouns:

    So Zimmerman can follow Martin and create fear in Martin and then, when he and Martin come together in confrontation, regardless of who starts it, and Z gets a boo-boo, Z can kill M.

  273. Some literal interpretations of SYG do seem to make it very scary and insane.
    With just a little thought, such interpretations are a licence to kill.

    It seems hard to believe that the surrounding circumstances and the credibility of someone claiming SYG would not be considered.

    Speaking of credibility, I’ve been slowly updating my blog in the past week or so.

    Hot off the presses is something on Zimmerman’s gun and the moment of the shooting.

    And here’s the SYG:)

    The Call, The Walk, and Hannity are also refreshed.

  274. BettyKath, you’re onto it and you’re right. You got it. NO, Zimmerman cannot follow Martin and terrorize him and then, in a confrontation, use “fear” to justify killing Martin. That’s NOT what the law says; the pretty Law Professor from the Central Florida Law School was, in my not-so-humble opinion, just WRONG on that point. It would lead to wholesale premeditated murder and it would be pro-criminal in the extreme.

    IF GEORGE was NOT engaged in an unlawful act (such as attempted unlawful restraint, attempted assault and battery, terroristic threatening, etc. etc.) AND if Trayvon attacked him (which does not look likely from the physical evidence), THEN a fear cannot be PRESUMED but a reasonable fear can be PROVEN by a preponderance of the evidence IF the evidence is credible.

    So George doesn’t get to say “I was scared” and go free. That’s how he thought it would be.

    It’s that George has to show by a preponderance of the evidence (and his testimony does count as evidence but it must be subject to cross-examination which will make it look a bit less than credible) that Trayvon Martin attacked him, that his story of being beaten half to death is credible, and that he had REASONABLE FEAR of great bodily injury or death when he shot Martin.

    I don’t think he’s getting there. I think the SYG hearing is being done by the defense for two purposes: (a) theater; and (b) trying to make it look better for appeal.

    A third reason occurs to me: Maybe George is insistent upon the SYG hearing, imagining that he is still credible. Then O’Mara may be doing it because his client insists upon it. Who knows?

  275. ” NO, Zimmerman cannot follow Martin and terrorize him and then, in a confrontation, use “fear” to justify killing Martin. That’s NOT what the law says;”

    We might be disagreeing. Let’s see if we can be more specific on the agreement.

    I believe that 776.12 (1) is only section that applies. The others do not, mostly for the reasons you state. Also, some of them deal with buildings and vehicles which eliminate them.

    I believe what’s pertinent is “(1) He or she reasonably believes that such [deadly] force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself”

    This section stands alone. It doesn’t say anything about anyone but the person who uses deadly force, that is, if Zimmerman reasonably believes that he is in danger of imminent death or great bodily harm he can use deadly force.

    The qualifiers are “reasonably”, “imminent”, and “great bodily harm”. This is what Zimmerman has to show: that it was reasonable for him to believe that the use of deadly force was necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm.

    There are no other qualifiers. I think the weakness is in his “reasonable belief”. And what a good cross-examination could do. Zimmerman got away with not answering tough questions from the detective. That wouldn’t work when he is on the stand under oath. Is there any way that O’mara can make the case without having Zimmerman testify?

    Now that I actually see the law, I understand the details of Zimmerman’s story. He knew all about SYG. Perhaps the prosecutor could have the prof from a class tell how that was part of the discussion.

    I do agree that O’Mara has nothing to lose by going for the SYG hearing and for the reasons you state.

  276. BettyKath, I think the disagreement you and I have with application of the SYG law derives from the fact that you are thinking Zimmerman’s conduct on 2/26/2012 fits into 776.12 — I think it does NOT, but can only be used by a tortured reading of the companion code section, 776.13. Thus:

    776.12 speaks of force EXCEPT FOR DEADLY FORCE, as follows:

    776.12: A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force.


    However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

    (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;



    (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to 776.13;



    So, either George has to PROVE that he was in fear for his life when he shot Trayvon, or he has to PROVE that he was attacked while he was not engaged in any unlawful activity.

    He only has to prove one of these two things with a preponderance of the evidence. But now we come to the real crux of the matter.

    The prosecution has the following evidence:

    1. George told the dispatcher on his non-emergency call that he was following the “suspicious guy.”

    2. Trayvon was on the phone until the time of confrontation, and the time the call with the girlfriend ended is known.

    3. George told the dispatcher that “these a55holes always get away,” clearly indicating both animus and the intent to pursue.

    4. George has admitted exclaiming, “f*cking punks” on the recording with the dispatcher, indicating hostility toward Trayvon.

    5. The amount of time George claims to have been passively receiving a death-dealing beating is inconsistent with the “capillary type lacerations” on George’s head and NO X-RAY SHOWS A BROKEN NOSE and all George’s own doctor said was “possible” broken nose;

    6. The injuries are not only inconsistent with fear of imminent bodily injury or death, but the fear of imminent bodily injury or death is very hard to believe when you remember that George was armed with a loaded pistol; and

    7. George changed his story about the whole thing four times, and thus, his credibility — even aside from the PayPal bond money issue — is already damaged and his performance on cross-examination is going to stink to high heaven.

    So O’Mara’s got a very steep uphill battle for this hearing.

    Also, if you look at the witnesses who were previously (before it looked like there would be a real prosecution) willing to say things that supported George’s version of the story, you see that they were backing off significantly on the most important points. We no longer heard about MMA punches once the realities of prosecution set in; we only heard that there were two guys on the ground and it was dark. The pictures of George’s head injuries are problematic to the defense because — so far — there are three of them and they do not seem either totally consistent with each other or, taken together, at all consistent with a deadly beat-down that would make any person fearful of great injury or death. The BANDAIDS got put on THE NEXT DAY! HOW INCREDIBLY SILLY!

    Also, witnesses the police tried to ignore came in with a more credible story, in concert, than George tried to tell at any point in his four narratives. They said that “the one on top” was the one who got up and walked away, that George did NOT ask for medical attention when they asked if everyone was OK (he responded, “Just call the police”); and that — in the case of the witness who called in, according to Serino — George was “trying to restrain” Trayvon Martin before shooting him.

    Another big factor that will tend to show that it is a lie that Zimmerman was afraid for his life is that he has already said that Trayvon Martin first appeared, then disappeared, then “emerged from the darkness” and circled the car, then hid in the darkness again, and then, yet again, “emerged fromt he darkness” again to attack George.

    Since George is on video saying he had forgotten he was carrying his gun when he got out of the car, and only remembered it when he felt Trayvon Martin’s hand reaching down the side of his body toward the holster, why wasn’t he afraid already, once Trayvon had circled the car, if he was afraid at all? It doesn’t add up.

    George is in the car.
    Trayvon has his hand in his waistband.
    That’s where George keeps HIS GUN.
    George is still in the car.
    He doesn’t know “what’s up with him.”
    Trayvon goes into the darkness, then emerges from the darkness.
    Trayvon circles the car.

    Isn’t George scared?


    Then he’s not a scaredy-cat type, is he?

    But then, he gets out, gets attacked, and THEN degenerates into scaredy-cat? The guy in training to become a cop?

    When confronted and questioned, this non-scaredy-cat guy doesn’t say: “I’m with the Neighborhood Watch; what are you doing here?” but, “No, I don’t have a problem”? REALLY?

    George’s little one-act play “I was looking for a street sign or a number and I got attacked and my head nearly exploded and I remembered I had a gun and I shot him but wasn’t sure I shot him so I jumped on him and spread his hands apart because I was so hurt but I didn’t want to go to the hospital because it costs too much money” will not sell.

    Maybe he can get private backing for this little play, but Judge Lester won’t be buying any tickets. That’s my guess.

  277. For supporter’s of Zimmerman
    “(1) He or she reasonably believes that such [deadly] force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself”
    is a slam-dunk.
    For them, it trumps everything else completely.
    To any reasonable person, that is is insanity.

    One can say that the cops arrived immediately after the shot – that Zimmerman was up walking and talking – and didn’t need any medical attention other than a cleaning. He didn’t need stitching. He didn’t need bandaging.
    He felt so well that he refused to get even checked out in a hospital.

    Ah yes, but… heads can be very funny y’know. One more bang and who knows that he wasn’t going to end his life as a cabbage or die.

    How can someone “reasonably” believe imminent death or great bodily harm?
    If you looked like you were shaping up to hit me, I could be in actual fear of great bodily harm.
    Who is to say that my actual fear was unreasonable? I can think of people who have died or brain-injured by a simple fall. There is no straight-line graph that links duration of violence to level of closeness to death.

    Am I supposed to wait until I see stars or a bright light at the end of a dark sort of tunnel before my actual fear becomes reasonable?

    The huge flaw in (1) above is that it uses the word “reasonable”.
    The moment you bring reason into a situation, consideration of all the surrounding conditions should be inescapable.

    But then, Zimmerman’s ‘reasonable fear’ seems to be based on a fear that Martin was going for his gun – and had also added by way of conversation “You going to die tonight”.
    That sort of fear could be seen as more reasoned than “my head was being banged and see I have few puny superficial cuts to prove it”.

    His problem with that is that we only have his word for it.
    Given that he clearly can/will not remember the detail of most of that night – as evidenced by things like not matching his NEN call in significant ways, and not explaining a gap of over 2 minutes immediately before the fight started – how can his story of the final seconds, in which he logically would be at his most stressed, be believed?

  278. Sling, it’s not ONLY that his fear (of imminent grave bodily injury or death) had to be reasonable, but that under the circumstances of his not being in his own house or his own car, that fear cannot be PRESUMED but must be proven. Fear of great injury or death is PRESUMED, under the SYG law, if the guy who uses the deadly force (George) was in his own home or in his own car and the other guy was coming INTO that home or car. If not, then there is no PRESUMPTION of that level of fear. So George will not just have to prove that his fear was present, but that it was also reasonable.

    Facts that tend to show that the fear was not present OR reasonable:

    1. George did not stay in his car; if he had any feeling that Trayvon could be dangerous, he would have stayed in his car, checked that the doors were locked, and probably driven AWAY from the spot where he saw Trayvon.

    2. George did not tell the dispatcher that he was afraid of Trayvon.

    3. George did not tell the two women who came out to see what had happened that “the suspect” might be armed and dangerous; yet he claimed that he did not know until maybe an hour after the event that Trayvon Martin was DEAD. His fear should not have decreased until he knew Trayvon Martin was dead, if he actually felt the fear.

    4. George claims all he did while being beaten was to “wriggle” and scream for help. This is not believable.

    5. George cannot explain his inability to defend himself physically for an extended period of time with a guy sitting on him, but does claim that he was able to both wriggle and, ultimately, reach for his gun. This is not believable.

    6. When asked by Serino how he explains the very SLIGHT injuries he sustained with the description of a life-threatening beat-down, he answers, “I don’t know.” That won’t fly.

    7. George’s alleged fear of great injury or death is just plain unbelievable in light of the fact that he was calm, cool, collected and pretty much unhurt within a half hour of the shooting. Although some witnesses claimed he was “pretty messed up” or had blood on him, none of that proves serious injury and he did not in fact have serious injury. Had he been seriously injured the police would have been REQUIRED to take him to the hospital E.R., whether he wanted it or not. He was in custody at the time.

    8. George’s story of being attacked by Trayvon is also not believable in light of the cell phone call from the girlfriend, the 911 calls from the neighbors, and the background of the situation.

    So the “reasonable fear” and the “self-defense” still come down to credibility. Since George’s stories (all four of them, at all four times when he told them) are all contradictory, ill matched to the physical evidence, and counter-intuitive, his chances at being exonerated at a SYG hearing are pretty low.

    Still you have a bunch of experts opining otherwise, as in:

    “The decision of the hearing centers around whether Zimmerman felt his life was in danger at the time of the shooting, Schwartzreich said. Although the defense lawyers did not specifically say so, Zimmerman is expected to testify because he’s the only survivor of the Feb. 26 encounter.

    “The danger doesn’t have to be real, or actual,” Schwartzreich said. “It’s what the defendant believed it to be — if he believed he was going to be killed.”

    That’s not true at all. The defendant has to prove he had a reasonable fear. Reasonable fear is based, in part, on whether a threat is “real, or actual.” Otherwise, paranoids could get away with killing anybody they feared. If that turns out to be the law, I’m getting paranoid, I’ll tell you that!

  279. “If that turns out to be the law, I’m getting paranoid, I’ll tell you that!”

    That’s why this case *has to* come to trial.
    No plea bargain.

    Even if that might mean Zimmerman walking free under what might turn out to prove to be a completely insane, card-carrying lunatic law – it is is important that everybody realises WTF the state of the nation is.

  280. Sling, I understand what you said and I believe what you said. Unfortunately, however, there are enormous forces at work to prevent this case from coming to trial:

    1. Defense doesn’t want it to come to trial. (A jury does have a terrible risk of doing the wrong wrong wrong thing, but a jury does also have a terrible risk of doing the right right right thing, and everything in between. There cannot be an all-white jury for Zimmerman. He may get a hung jury a couple of times, but if you look at the odds, once all the physical evidence is presented, a good defense lawyer will want to avoid trial.)

    2. Prosecution doesn’t want it to come to trial. (Lots of the evidence was ordered revealed by Lester OVER THE OBJECTION OF BOTH THE PROSECUTION AND THE DEFENSE TOGETHER. Isn’t that weird as Hell? I think it is. The only explanation I can come up with is that the prosecution did not want the public to get ahold of ALL the evidence that would tend to show not only that George killed Trayvon deliberately and with depraved indifference toward Trayvon’s life, but worse, that he INTENDED to kill Trayvon Martin and not because he was being beaten up. If you listen to the sequence of scream/shot/silence alone, you realize that the idea that a man is screaming “help help” while being beaten AND having his mouth covered, and continues that scream WHILE reaching for his loaded gun out of his holster while underneath a violent assailant, AND manages to get off a shot and then instantaneously stops screaming Help Help, although he doesn’t yet know if his assailant is hit or not, you realize that George’s story is so physically improbable as to be .000001 percent away from being IMPOSSIBLE. The story simply did not include Trayvon attacking George and beating him up; the prosecution not only knows that but can prove it. But they don’t want to reveal all the information at a trial. WHY NOT? Because they have to protect Wolfinger, Lee, and three or four other officers, at the same time as they prosecute Zimmerman. It is pretty obvious. The feds are involved. The feds can make this go away without hurting any officials, but only if there is no massive dump of real, physical, unavoidable evidence that shows absolutely that the cops and Wolfinger deliberately covered up a murder on 2/26/2012. Corey has a hard job: she has to get George into jail while keeping Wolfinger, Lee and some others OUT of jail and still on payroll.

    3. The FEDS don’t want it to come to trial. I think they’re dragging their feet in the hopes that this will go away. They don’t want to make any findings and they don’t want to stir up more indignation on either side. They will be happy if all the corruption can continue without them being viewed as either weak for not dealing with corruption or weak for “doing Obama’s dirty work for Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.”

    There you have my jaundiced view of what’s going on.


  281. Sling T, there’s something else I was thinking about with regard to this coming to trial to let people know what’s really going on in this country. There have been several relatively recent “AHA MOMENTS” when the people have had a chance to really “get” what’s going on. Let’s just say in the last 20 years, to be conservative.

    They pass; there is news; they get told and then recast in a different light and retold and they get told out of their ordinary natures and then they get distorted and retold in ways that are practically opposite of what they mean. And then they mean nothing.

    I am way too cynical, I know.

    Oh damn I am tired of being this way but it is valid, for me, I think.

  282. Now O’Mara says he will have a simple “self-defense immunity hearing” rather than a “Stand Your Ground immunity hearing.”

    Problem is, though, that there’s no such thing. Self-defense is a defense you bring up at trial, for the jury. You don’t get an immunity hearing for self-defense, not even in Florida. It’s either a SYG hearing or go ahead and make your defense at time of trial before the jury.

    Interesting that there have been so many attempts to put out so much disinformation. Hmmm. Beginning to look like a habit.

    Notice, though: George is about to tell the court that he’s indigent so the state can pay for his defense. Either O’Mara’s getting cold feet or something else is happening in Paradise. And they may be running out of law professors to say Zimmerman is obviously innocent.

  283. O’Mara:

    “The facts don’t seem to fit the stand your ground defense.”

    Previously, the Gov said this was not a SYG case (although obviously it was from Trayvon Martin’s point of view).

    Also, the legislator who presented and backed the SYG law in the Florida Legislature said this was not a SYG case.

    THe only reason people started fussing about this being a SYG case was that the buffoons/corrupt individuals who originally let George Zimmerman walk away from his crime used the “SYG” defense to show justification for what they had done — thereby throwing a red herring into the situation, upon which everybody was riding until yesterday. So let’s see, more than FIVE MONTHS of confusion and distraction about something that had nothing to do with the issue. Nobody was trying to make Zimmerman retreat, back off or run away when threatened. Somebody was trying to say that when he chased down and killed an unarmed innocent kid, he did BAD and WRONG.

    From the beginning, everyone (including me) who said this was not a SYG case (from Zimmerman’s side) was right.

    SYG (as an explanation, not as an exculpation) does, however, come into play to explain Trayvon Martin’s actions, if he took those actions, in bumping Georgie’s poor widdow nose and in scratching the back (if he did — there’s something very weird about those photographs, in that the trails of blood do not follow the same angle as they trickle down, in both photos) of George’s poor widdow head.

  284. If self-defense could kick in to protect a person AT ANY STAGE of a confrontation regardless of the history of the two (or more) persons involved IN the confrontation, then here’s how it could work:

    You could take a gun out and sit on a park bench with your gun.
    A blind person could come along and you could say to the blind person: “I have a gun here and I’m going to shoot you.”

    The blind person could lash out with his white-tipped cane and smash you, scaring you, and you could shoot him. IF HE HAD ALREADY HIT YOU WITH THAT CANE, you might very well fear for your life. Those things are DANGEROUS!

    Cute, huh?

    But, more rational a consideration, an accused murderer does not get a special pre-trial hearing with the judge on the claim of self-defense; that is reserved for the special circumstances of a “stand your ground” hearing, specifically to PREVENT a person from having to go to trial on the matter if he succeeds in showing he was standing his ground.

    Regular self-defense is still regular self-defense, and it applies to those cases where a defendant shows A JURY or the TRIAL JUDGE (if he chooses trial without jury) that he was only defending himself when he killed someone. So really, the idea that O’Mara will convert a “SYG” hearing into a “regular self-defense hearing” is nonsense. If this judge allows it I will be very surprised.

  285. OK I was wrong, you can have a hearing on self-defense too, if you make a motion to dismiss the charges. Fat chance.

    But then I began to think about why O’Mara is now saying he will rely on self-defense rather than SYG. He is not willing to expose that ridiculous argument that George was looking around for a street number or street name to scrutiny. He doesn’t want to talk about how the struggle began; he wants to rely ONLY on George’s fear because his nose was hurting.

    So if we just forget that Trayvon didn’t really attack George, if we just forget that George was trying to “bring in his suspect,” if we just forget that George assaulted Trayvon Martin, and we rely ONLY on the idea that once George was hurt he was scared to death, THEN we can get him off on “fear alone.” Because he was afraid he had a right to kill.

    Watch: Slowly O’Mara will stop talking about anything else except George’s sore nose. We’re going to have to concentrate on that nose now, while it grows and grows and grows — George Zimmochio and his BIG SORE NOSE.

  286. On Friday August 10, the Appeals Court in Florida affirmed a judge refusing to drop charges after claimed self-defense in State v. Maderos. In that case, the court did not insist that the defendant was not AFRAID, but only that his fear was not reasonable: “The Court finds that Defendant has not proved by a preponderance of the evidence that his fear of great bodily harm was reasonable.”

    Read it and weep, George. If you really were afraid you were going to be killed by “the suspect” that night, you were being unreasonable.

  287. It seems a very different type of case

    The circumstances seem very different

    Court does not fully credit Defendant’s and Mr. Ribas’ claim as to the severity of the attack or that Mr. Ribas was utterly unable to defend himself.
    Regardless of the extent of attack on Mr. Ribas, the testimony of the people who saw the “strangulation” established that Defendant thwarted the continued attack on Mr. Ribas and pulled him from the danger. It was subsequent to removing Mr. Ribas from imminent danger that Defendant continued his altercation with Mr. Smith, ultimately cutting Mr. Smith with his officer’s knife. Neither Mr. Smith nor any of his companions had weapons: only Defendant was brandishing a knife.”

    Once the forcible felony was terminated, for immunity to attach, Defendant’s use of deadly force must have been based on a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm to himself or Mr. Ribas. The Court finds that Defendant has not proved by a preponderance of the evidence that his fear of great bodily harm was reasonable.

    A major difference is that were witnesses.

    There is no witness evidence for the start of the Zimmerman/Martin fight.
    All we seem to have is witness evidence of Martin being on top for part of it towards the end.

    Zimmerman’s defence will rely solely on his assertion that he was in reasonable fear of his life or great bodily harm.
    All that led up to the fight must be discounted as not relevant. The semantics about “following, skipping” etc. are all to do with that insurance.

    Witness 6 must be the bete noir for the defence. His original story was wonderful. His current story is merely helpful.
    I pity Witness 6 – caught between two deposing forces! He’s going to be torn asunder.
    ( “deposing” – Geddit? *sigh* – Nevermind.)

    Zimmerman’s level of injuries are disappointing for defence.
    A few cuts to the head – that are readily explainable by simply wrestling on the ground. They have his fear based on imagination rather than the reality that emerges after the event.
    That’s the problem with that stupid law. Anyone can claim they were in fear.

    Lack of defensive injuries on Zimmerman , and lack of offensive injuries on Martin are also a big problem.

    A plausible case for the nose being whacked by recoil action would be a real bummer.

    A have an image of Zimmerman and O’Mara sitting in a room.
    O’Mara: “Hey. Broken-Nose – play the piano”
    Zimmerman: “I don’t have a broken nose.”

  288. Of course the cases are way different. There were no witnesses other than George to his situation, thus the reasonableness of his fear. George, however, won’t be a suitable witness because he can’t stand up to cross-examination. So what will be the “evidence” of his “reasonable fear” is the key to his claim of self-defense. Very very thin, nowhere near 50%.


    1. He admits NO FEAR when exiting the car.
    2. He cuts into his own credibility by having given three different reasons for his exit from the car.
    3. He knew the police were expected any minute.
    4. He could SPEAK to witnesses while being beaten — claiming to have said, “No don’t call 911 I already called them, help me with this guy” or words to that effect —
    5. His injuries were “not coincident with” the beating he describes.

  289. You know, come to think of it, if you can go scott-free after using a loaded gun to kill an unarmed person who has nothing to do with you after YOU decide to go after him and then there is a confrontation of some sort between the two of you and you end up scared enough to kill, then George Zimmerman will never be able to walk around safely again, ever in life. Obviously, at any point in the future, someone who was carrying a gun could think George was suspicious, could get (any kind of way) into a confrontation between himself and George, and could kill George as soon as he (the shooter) get scared enough to kill.

    Plenty of people might get scared enough to kill George Zimmerman, you know; he has shown already that he has a propensity to kill first, pray later.

  290. Malisha,

    4. He could SPEAK to witnesses while being beaten — claiming to have said, “No don’t call 911 I already called them, help me with this guy” or words to that effect –

    I know that Zimmerman says he said this after the shot, but does he contend he said it during the altercation? Is there a witness who heard him say it either time?

  291. No conversation reported by witnesses until after the shot.
    Zimmerman’s own account of pre-shot is confused.

  292. BettyKath, the various things he claims he said, and Trayvon said, and witnesses said, PRE-SHOOTING, were various and changed even within one narration. I should make a chart of all of them and line them up. Maybe I’ll do that; maybe, though, I’ll just remember them in bits and pieces as I go along.

    One thing I feel confident about is that he doesn’t want to be cross-examined on any of it and will say he has ADD and a bad memory if he is.

  293. I was looking for some information about Zimmerman today and ran across an article about a fire chief in Miami, Brian Beckmann, who posted on facebook calling Trayvon Martin’s parents “sh*tbag pathetic welfare-dependent failed [blah blah blah]” bad parents. When I zeroed in on the story I saw many comments from people who didn’t think a good firefighter should be demoted for personal beliefs or first-amendment-protected comments. But he also said the parents’ allowing Trayvon to wear a hoodie had caused Zimmerman to fear “being jacked by a thug” and so forth, so he was expressing not only provably wrong comments (both parents are gainfully and respectably employed and neither has a criminal or child protection record) but also insane attitudes about ordinary citizen conduct.

    What this really means to me is that a guy in high public office (police, fire chief, etc., public safety stuff) can be so out of touch with reality as to allow his private psychotic fears and beliefs to play a distinct role in his public expressions. THUS how do we trust Beckmann (or those like him, many of whom obviously were cops in Sanford) to do his job properly when, for instance, people with hoodies may need rescue from fires, or African American parents may need protection and assistance?

    DO YOU THINK that someone expressing these views publicly without shame is going to serve the public without discrimination, without fear of “being jacked by a thug” and without his enormous mental distortions affecting his job performance?

    If you’re a Black kid in a fire, do you think HE’s your best bet to save you? I don’t want to depend on his sorry a55 for anything — unless maybe he can wash my car (but even then, I’d have to watch him closely). You could do that with a hose and water, after all.

  294. Hollow-point (or dum-dum as originally named back in the day) are horrific.

    Brevik took them ( or had planned to) a step further.

    Their only saving grace is that when some idiot pulls a gun in a cinema to save everyone from a gunman, each of their panicked shots will at most only kill one innocent person (horribly) rather than passing through a number of innocent people.

    Apparently hollow-point is quite common.
    Even worse. Zimmerman had his gun in 7+1 mode.
    7 rounds fills the magazine.
    Rack the gun to get a round in the chamber
    Remove magazine and top up with another round.
    That gun has no safety. The gun is cheap in addition to being inexpensive.
    If a 5 point pressure gets applied to the trigger somehow, the thing will fire off a hollow-point.

    That sort of insanity is going around in waistbands by the 100s of 1000’s

  295. I guess we can hope that one of them goes off by accident and removes someones jewels. Then let the news spread.

  296. Hey, can anybody confirm or invalidate the rumor that came out of Duval County saying there was an existing sample of Trayvon Martin’s tape recorded voice?

  297. Malisha, considering the way videos can be taken by anyone with a cell phone, I would expect that such a video exists. The question would be the quality of it. I expected one to surface before now.

  298. Something interesting popped up on another blog. The so-called “illegal house parties” where George worked security (2001-2005, after which apparently he had a kind of melt-down and got into trouble with his girlfriend and the ATF agents) were probably parties at which all sorts of unusual activities were taking place.

    Sanford, Florida has been referred to on-line as the “pill mill” capital of the South. A commenter on another blog asks pointedly: “Who doesn’t know this?” Well, I, for one, didn’t have any idea about that. If it is true, however, then one might think those “illegal house parties” were places where some drugs were “on the menu.” There may be much more information available about George’s past than what has surfaced in the evidence dumps, of course. The information might be making BOTH the prosecution and the defense proceed with some measure of secretiveness; who — among the higher-ups — has been involved?

  299. Sad news: Vincent Taaffe, the son of Frank Taaffe who came out with the information that Taaffe (father) was violent, racist and had violated the law many times, was killed in a car crash.

    The funeral for his brother had to be held separately for paternal and maternal family, because of the protective orders both mother and daughter (and then, son) had out against Frank Taaffe as a result of prior violence. I don’t know if there will be one funeral for Vincent (who publicly disowned his father) or two. Really sad story.

  300. Apparently the medical records subpoenaed last week (and ruled on today) that will stay in judge’s chambers are records of George’s visit to the clinic ten miles away from Sanford the day AFTER the killing of Trayvon Martin! How dare they suggest that these records were not necessary to the prosecution’s case; of course they are! The interesting thing is that they did not want these records revealed…it makes me suspect that the visit resulted in NO finding that George would have wanted to reveal publicly.

    Obviously, had that medical office diagnosed a broken nose and serious head injury, George would have been posting it on his web-site for months now. It makes me even more secure in my conclusion that George Zimmerman is a damned liar and that the SPD helped him try to cover up a murder.

  301. The medical report from his GP has been available for some time.

    That has
    “We discussed that it is likely broken, but does not appear to have septial deviation.The swelling and black eyes are typical of this injury. I recommended that he be evaluated by ENT but he refused”

    It also mentions
    “Scalp Lacerations: No sutures needed given well-approximated skin margins. Continue to clean with soap and water daily.
    We discussed the red flag symptoms that would warrant imaging given the type of assault he sustained. Given the type of trauma, we discussed that it is imperative that he be seen with his Psychologist for evaluation.”

    This last part is probably the source of the problem
    Zimmerman went off to his psychologist.

    If you watch the first part of the Stress Test video, in which he is waiting and talking about how his day went, about 5 minutes in, you’ll see him mention this visit.
    Then there is a silence.
    Then .. “and that’s when it really hit me” (As in when he talked with the psychologist.)

    After another silence he goes into that “Did you ever have to shoot someone?” looking stern – not questioning authority etc,

    I’m sure that the prosecution would kill to get a fly-on-the-wall of that visit to the psychologist.
    Quite obviously, and clearly by Zimmerman’s later conversation on that video, the struggle and the shooting was the main issue.
    The psychologist would have a huge insight into the matter.

  302. The subpoena is for ALL RECORDS; George only provided three pages of them so far.

    By the fact that O’Mara resisted the subpoena, I would bet that there are many MANY more records that will have to be turned over now.

  303. George doesn’t understand the problem of using “alternative pleading” without stuffing his feet into his mouth.

    “Let me get out of Seminole County so I can see my lawyer.”
    OK, go to Orange County to your lawyer’s office.
    “Well then let me get out of Florida because of the threats.”

    “Trayvon was a ‘suspect’ because he was checking me out with his hand in his waistband and I don’t know what his thing was.”
    OK, stay put, we’ll come check him out.
    “Shit, he ran.”
    Where did he run?
    “Towards the back entrance to the neighborhood.”
    OK. We don’t need you to follow him.
    “OK…He emerged from the darkness and beat me almost to death and my head almost exploded and I had to kill him and I spread his hands apart because he might hit me with something again.”
    “But he wasn’t running; he wasn’t scared; and I wasn’t scared either because I keep forgetting street addreses because I have ADD.”
    “And he broke my nose and bashed my head in.”
    “And you don’t need records from my doctor because they’re private.”
    “And you don’t need to violate my privacy.”
    “Because I’m not pregnant.”
    “And I have no money.”
    “OK, so long, I gotta go now, these Blacks are threatening me.”

  304. If I had kept a notebook of all the things I have forgotten in this case, it would be time to go buy a new notebook.

    You know how when something comes up in the case, the wire service puts out a story and then the first ten newspapers covering it use the same first sentence, at least, verbatim? Well On March 12, 2012, two weeks after the killing of Trayvon Martin, BEFORE Sharpton and Jackson had momentum, there were identical headlines all over the place saying that

    Neighbourhood watch captain who shot unarmed black teen ‘had history of aggressive tactics’- but won’t face charges

    Read more:

    Apparently, Police Chief Bill Lee had gotten information from several residents of The Retreat who were concerned not only about George coming to their houses and carrying on with them about the high crime rate, the need for guns, and the idea that young Black men were preying on his neighborhood, but specifically about him patrolling the neighborhood with a loaded gun and scaring them and their guests! Perhaps the only reason Trayvon’s father didn’t hear about all this was that he was not there while he was driving his truck, or was not there when George was making his rounds, or something. But plenty of people at The Retreat were concerned well before Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin. And they told the police. And they did not get an appropriate police response. And as a result, their neighborhood was unsafe. And now their neighborhood really IS a high-crime neighborhood, by the statistics!

  305. I doubled back and listened to about a dozen web-sites saying George said “coons” or George said “punks” after the adjective “f*cking” on the tape, and I confess at this point I have heard it both ways.

    George insists that he said “F*cking Punks.”

    OK, let’s say it’s “punks.”

    George believes that absolves him of hints of racism AND of guilt? How?

    If you see someone walking along, and you don’t like it, how does that make the guy a punk, much less a “f*cking punk”?

    If you call a Black kid a “F*cking punk” without any evidence that he has done something wrong to deserve your scorn and malice, how does that prove you’re not a racist?

    AND if a voice analyst (Tom Owen, who weighed in on the controversy by saying the word spoken in a whisper was “punks”) is used to determine that the word was “punks” and not “coons,” and that voice analyst is the same one who opined that the voice screaming “Help Help” was not Zimmerman’s, exactly where does his expertise start and where does it stop? Was he RIGHT about the “punks” and WRONG about the “help”? Or right about both, and George only called Trayvon a punk and then lied about who was screaming HELP HELP? Or wrong about both, and George first called Trayvon a “coon” and then yelled “HELP HELP” before killing him?

    Because now these F*cking master-splayers have refused the insurance to the point where I boomed really snow what was dead, and it’s murally in-snorted because needier George shrilled Trayvon Martin with pull Alice, or in shelf compense. If so, he should either wonk or have an incision.

  306. NEWS: O’Mara got Zimmerman a new judge.
    Probably the judge will be Debra S. Nelson — someone who, according to her cases, does NOT like to be played for a fool. I am trying not to giggle and sneer because it seems to me that whereas Lester’s decisions could possibly, in the future, seem biased against George Zimmerman by his having announced his negative opinion of George’s obviously impaired credibility, this new judge can see for herself what a liar George is and nobody can criticize her for whatever she learns! Plea deal, folks. “No comment no comment no comment no comment plea deal.” Oh, but first, O’Mara will rack up another quarter million in legal fees trying to reverse everything that has happened so far, while the no-commentators sit and wait and while George trolls around for more money.

  307. About telling the truth and lying:

    O’Mara did not claim that his client was being truthful about his passport and his money, only that Judge Lester had made negative gratuitous COMMENTS about his client.

    So the story is: OK George lied but it wasn’t nice to say bad things about him.

    And the story is: He only lied because he was mistrustful, frightened and confused.


    Well I’m glad we cleared THAT up.

    Because here’s what I think:

    George lied about the events that occurred before he killed Trayvon Martin; but it’s not nice to charge him with murder; he only killed Trayvon because he was confused (about whether he was allowed to target, trail and kill someone for making him suspicious), mistrustful (of a55holes who try to get away) and frightened (that someone was gonna take away his gun because of his inappropriate aggressive behavior on neighborhood watch).

    So let’s just forget about what George did when he was frightened, confused and mistrustful and let’s move along to really HEALING by agreeing that it was all part of God’s Plan. OK?

    Perhaps the new judge will go for this one.

  308. I quote here from the Professor’s article on another thread:
    “Ward had previously worked for the Joint Chiefs of Staff in Washington, but appears to have passed all testing (and presumably a lie detector) to assume control of a billion dollar nuclear submarine. He reportedly met the woman on a dating site and he had learned that the twenty-something woman was pregnant. She later lost the baby due to complications.”

    So, now, let’s just revisit the issue of George Zimmerman’s credibility, since defense lawyers as prestigious as Dershowitz (Harvard) have weighed in showing that they believe George Zimmerman when he describes what happened the night he killed Trayvon Martin.

    George Zimmerman said two testable syllables: one YES and one NO, when he took a “voice stress analysis” test at HIS OWN REQUEST on the premises of the SPD.

    So that means we are obliged to believe him, huh? Didn’t work for this Naval officer, did it?

  309. Oh boy, today’s on-line dose of “bullcrap news” says:

    MIAMI — Trayvon Martin grabbed his killer’s gun just moments before he died and uttered a profanity-laced threat. In a desperate life-or-death struggle, George Zimmerman clutched Trayvon’s wrist, broke his grip on the semi-automatic firearm and shot him once in the chest.

    That account appears in a new book written by Zimmerman’s best friend and confidante.

    There’s just one problem: Zimmerman never said that to the police.

    Read more here:

    “There’s just one problem” has not counted very carefully. I can count two (2) problems. One: “Zimmerman never said that to the police.”

    TWO: That didn’t happen.

    Yet right now, if that same voice-stress analyst were to give Osterman a voice-stress analysis test similar to the one that he gave George the day after Trayvon Martin died, here’s what I bet you would have heard:

    “Are the walls green?”


    “Did you ever get stopped for speeding?”


    “Did George tell you honestly that Trayvon Martin grabbed his gun and he had to gain control of Trayvon’s wrist and get the gun back away from Trayvon in order to defend his own life that night?”


    “Did you help George construct a story that you thought would make it look like self-defense?”


    And guess what, Osterman would pass. :mrgreen:

  310. Uh oh — new evidence shows Zimmerman barfed.

    “Afraid for the Zimmermans’ safety, Osterman took the couple in from the very first night of the shooting. His 172-page book describes how Zimmerman told the story of the killing over and over again until he was physically drained. When he told it to police, Osterman said, Zimmerman threw up.

    Read more here:

    Remember, you first read it here (as in, not in the evidence provided by either Zimmerman or the police…)…

  311. Do you know why George’s voice does not register stress when he lies? Because he does not know any other way of talking. He and his family have lived on lies all their lives; he has been brought up on lies; he cut his teeth on lies; he speaks and lies come out.

    “I graduated with an associates degree in criminal justice.”
    “The suspect emerged from the darkness”
    “Trayvon Martin broke my nose”
    “He smashed my head on the ground over and over”
    “I cried out for help but nobody helped me”
    “I am not a racist”

    Why would, “the walls are green and I feared for my life and I did not confront ‘the guy’ whom I ‘had to’ kill” cause this guy any stress?

    It wouldn’t cause me any stress to say, “I’m always right and whoever disagrees with me on the Turley Blog is alwyas wrong,” now, would it?

  312. Something that didn’t pop out at me in the beginning of this thread: Professor Turley assumed that the police WANTED George to take the VSA test and he agreed to it. Quite different scenario, in fact. GEORGE asked for the VSA test and the tester-guy said to him, “your wish is granted.” That’s why it was designed in such a way as to give him the most chance of sailing through it without a real challenge. My bet is that Osterman told him to ask for it, he was eager to do it because it’s easily fooled (much easier than a polygraph properly administered, BTW) and it would help him slither out of his responsibility to face criminal charges. Even when defense spin is put on it.

  313. Oh yes it’s been a while since this thread was active, but I feel like posting this tid-bit now. I just re-listened-to the tapes of the Singleton/Serino interviews of George Zimmerman before and after he did his “lie detector test.” Guess what?

    Serino asked him for his educational attainments. He answers, unequivocal answer, “Associates Degree in Criminal Justice.”

    In answer to a question about whether he is free on 2/27/2012, George volunteers that he will be in class and he adds, also without a question pending: “I’m continuing on for a Bachelors…in political science.”

    In view of things like this where George Zimmerman deliberately and actively lies when there is no particular reason TO lie (i.e., it is not necessary to lie about these things in order to avoid imprisonment), what could anybody possibly care if his voice shows stress or doesn’t show stress when he says the walls of the interview room are not green? Somebody explain to me the importance of testing how a guy’s voice is when he lies, if we know that his voice was just fine while he murdered?

  314. I came back to this thread because I remembered something interesting (I think) from my divorce. My husband had signed a paper that said, “I know that my wife, [name omitted], is leaving the marital home on [date omitted} and I consent.”

    He then brought an action against me for desertion claiming lack of consent. When he was confronted with the document, he admitted signing it and explained (without a hint of embarrassment) that the word “consent” on the document did not indicate his consent. Asked what it DID mean, he said that he knew I was leaving and that I would leave no matter what so he signed it. Asked again if he had consented he denied it.

    The damn stupid magistrate believed him, and only decided in my favor because my lawyer pointed out that I had a right to rely upon his having signed the document as indicating his consent. When my lawyer saw the written decision he was flabbergasted because the fool had written that “in the husband’s mind, the word ‘consent’ did not imply consent.”

    The reason I came back to this thread when I remembered that is this: “Confront the guy” could mean something quite different to George Zimmerman than what it means to a rational, normal person. “Confront the guy” to us might mean confront the guy. To him, what he did, by demanding an explanation from Trayvon Martin, might not have implied “confrontation.” Perhaps in George’s stunted mind, to reach the point of “confront,” George would have to say some certain phrase such as: “I confront you.”

    And whether he was telling the truth when he said he feared for his life? To George that might mean that he felt a rush of fear. I am sure that he DID feel a rush of fear because something he had planned out to show what a hero he was had turned sour, had gone “south,” and was falling apart in front of his eyes. He was surely afraid. Afraid that the thing wasn’t going his way. To him, that could be just equivalent to “fear for [his] life.”

    Not that this is important. Corey did her job and those who are still whining about it will have to await the outcome of the action. But reliance on George’s word after the bold-faced lies he told would not approximate justice any more than “homie” approximates “sir.”

  315. While I understand that there are a number of people who have posted in response to this article, I find it interesting that Mr. Zimmerman agreed to such a exam. I am a retired police office and a expert in the use of the CVSA. The exam is valid, is very accurate and can not be beat.

    Until today I did not realize that Zimmerman took the CVSA the day following the event but passed NDI or no deception indicated. I have followed this trail closely and have not heard any evidence presented by the prosecution that would refute the statement of Zimmerman or the results of the CVSA. I disagree with the prosecution “reaching” for a charge of 2nd degree murder and feel public pressure and the unnecessary redarick of individuals like Rev. Al Sharpton. Unfortunately Zimmerman can no longer get a fair trail because it was already tried in the press and in public opinion.

    The prosecution should have tried Zimmerman for manslaughter if they wanted a sure win.

    The the truth never changes and Zimmerman’s story has never changed. It has been consistent from the start. It does not surprise me he passed the CVSA because I actually believe he was Martin was beating him and that Zimmerman was in fear for his life. The rest of this is just a show.

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