Bizarre, Constitutional Law, Religion

Rep. André Carson Calls For U.S. Schools To Be Modeled On Madrassas

For years, politicians around the country have striven to allow families to leave public schools and attend religious (largely Christian) schools through voucher programs.  However, many people are alarmed by the call of  Rep. André Carson (D-Indiana), a Muslim member of Congress, that our schools should be modeled on Islamic schools or Madrassas.  As a staunch supporter of public schools and an educator, I strongly oppose the intermingling of religion with our public schools.  I also do not find Madrassas to be a particularly compelling model for education in the United States.

In a recent speech, Carson stated “America will never tap into educational innovation and ingenuity without looking at the model that we have in our Madrassas, in our schools where innovation is encouraged. Where the foundation is the Koran.”

Whether the “foundation” is the Bible or the Koran, the relevance of such religious structure to education is dubious at best and a threat to the separation of church and state at worst. To be honest, it is doubtful Carson’s speech would have generated such controversy if he praised Catholic schools as a model for education. Indeed, we have seen politicians object to the use of vouchers for Muslim schools.

Leslie and I have kept our children in public schools despite our unhappiness at times with class size and bureaucratic nonsense. I believe deeply that our public schools are a critical democratic training ground for tolerance and pluralism. They must be secular and free of religious training by definition as public schools.

I fail to see what the Madrassa model has to offer our school system. Any “innovation” clearly exists outside of such religious systems and is not unique to their religious focus.

53 thoughts on “Rep. André Carson Calls For U.S. Schools To Be Modeled On Madrassas”

  3. Dredd, you’re getting mixed up. They’re not too slow; they’re plaid shirts.

  5. I just got in from Nashville, where it was 104 degrees when I left. Therefore, have not had time to read through this thread and my brain is fried from the heat. If I am repeating something already mentioned, sorry ’bout that. However, I read something this morning about the voucher program being promoted in Louisiana. Seems the people promoting it have not considered it would apply to all private schools, not just Christian schools as the Louisiana legislature intended. Of course, some were only too eager to point this little detail out to them, but the story I was reading sounded as if the leaders of the movement refuse to read the memo about the meaning of “All.” They cannot seem to wrap their heads around the fact they will not just be funding Christian schools, but Madrassas as well. Not to mention the Buddhists, Jewish Orthodox, Hindus, and even atheists.

    Reading the story made me snort orange juice all over the screen.

  7. W=^..^

    And a fine example of why I’m against school voucher programs. Propping up religious education of any religion is Constitutionally inappropriate. If tax equity is the issue, many states do allow you to deduct private school tuitions (to varying degrees). That I have no issue with.

  9. Bron,

    “Why should Baptists or Hindus have to pay additional money to have their own school? That is a restraint of trade, a monopoly on education.”

    No, it’s not. They are free to form as many private schools as they can afford. However, your inability to think past trade conveniently lets you throw the 1st Amendment under the bus.

    “Government needs to provide religious education for all faiths. Seems only fair to me. Why does public education have to be secular? The Constitution only says that government cannot support one religion over another. It doesnt say you cant have religious public schools, you just cant have one type of religious public school.”

    Thus showing you have no idea about the legal tests applied to the Establishment Clause. Public education has to be secular because it is a organelle of government which is Constitutionally required to be secular. The Constitution’s terms do say you cannot have religious public schools of any sort precisely because they are public. If you’d read those cases cited above, you’d understand that.

  11. Woosty, I think you’re too hard on dub(ing), I’d rather have more dub(ing) and less religiousing up in our schools. Ideally, a solid grounding in Reggae, dub’s root, would be taught first though. 🙂

  12. JT’s is but a camp fire, not just what its declared intent is to be. What but courtesy is needed for rules. Let the words and ideas flow.

    Nighty night. “Early to bed….”

  13. Pingback: Islam, Christianity, And The Public School Debate | Homebrewed Theology

  14. MikeS,

    Chiming in on your private communications again.

    Being uppity was certainly in my youth regarded as a sin by the schoolteachers. The punishment was not corporeal, but painful. Inner deformations are also battery I feel.

  15. JunctionSheamus,

    Cool!

    Ex-pat and proud American. Yeah. And that gives me the right to criticize. I have not become a hermit. Only migrated, and the years went.

    Re. YOU. But how else am I to address the ones who I aim at there? The hope wss that those who felt hit
    by my snarts would know it was for them. Enlighten me how to target better.

    As for Iraq: Surely, ’91 was in the past. New war for old sins seems stupid. Anyway George and our poor UN ambassador said it was WMDs being the reason. Have you forgotten?

    Your bible studies are deeper than mine. 7 x 70?
    And the bought government also left me clueless.

    Glad to meet someone also hard to understand cryptic. AY now has a rival. D’ja hear that AY? Three of us now.

  16. government should pay for all kinds of religious schools, that way there is no establishment of any one religion.

    Why should Baptists or Hindus have to pay additional money to have their own school? That is a restraint of trade, a monopoly on education.

    Government needs to provide religious education for all faiths. Seems only fair to me. Why does public education have to be secular? The Constitution only says that government cannot support one religion over another. It doesnt say you cant have religious public schools, you just cant have one type of religious public school.

    I think this congressman is on to something.

  17. @Idealist – Used to be when a government was bought and paid for, they knew their place. Now, they’re gettin’ so uppity I just want to… (sorry, can’t type with a straight face, anymore).

    Re: the Bible, I think the last word had something to do with being struck once, let ’em strike you 7 x 70. Don’t buy into that either.

    Re: Iraq – you seem to forget that Iraq was the bully who tried to annex Kuwait and the house of Saud, which should have been the recipient of the “hammer of smiting”. Thanks for that, “41” (insert sarcastic emoticon here)

    Re: You – For some reason, and forgive me if I’m wrong, but aren’t you an ex-pat? If so, that would mean you=us. 😀

  18. Hey you guys, remember:

    He who is without sin can cast the first 5 gallon gas can.

    And the Bible calls for an eye for an eye.

    I’ll leave it to you to do the count between 9/11 and Afghanistan. Iraq was not even involved. Have we really rationlized that war afterwards?

    Being hung by your own ropes, are you?

  19. @rafflaw – Like, it’s okay to beat your wives and daughters with “re-bar” that’s less than the circumference of your thumb? Or, it’s a disgrace to light your women on fire with anything less than 92 octane?

    1. Raff,
      Was it you or Mark, or both of you talking about Nuns with rulers? Once you adopt a religious mode of education, then corporal punishment inevitably follows. Bad behavior gets equated with sin and immorality.

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