Tony Robbins is facing a series of potential lawsuits after at least 21 people were treated for burns after a late-night firewalking event. The fire walking resulted in second- and third-degree burn injuries at the motivational speaker’s event at the San Jose Convention Center. He called the event “Unleash the Power Within” — it was not clear if the burns were caused by the unleashing of the inner power or the superheated coals that they were walking on.
I must confess to be a snarky skeptic over Robbins and this entire industry of self-help and inspirational events. The most inspiring aspect of the industry is its ability to get people to hand over money to hear hallmark card aphorisms coupled with pseudo-psychological cheerleading.
Robbins and his staff set up 12 lanes of hot coals measuring 10 feet long and 2½-feet wide rested on the grass. Witnesses describe dozens of people screaming in pain “like they were being tortured.” Not torture. Self-realization. It just looks the same. At least no one died in this latest controversy from a self-realization program.
Others are quoted as saying that the fire walking was a “breakthrough” and “lifechanging,” like Henry Guasch, 19, who used his mantra of “Cool moss” to get through it.
In the most deadpan delivery for the occasion, San Jose Fire Department Capt. Reggie Williams noted that they gave Robbins an open-pit permit but “We discourage people from walking over hot coals.” He is obviously not fully self-realized.
The question of liability is obvious but that is something that written waivers and assumption of the risk would likely make difficult. There could be a question of whether the event organizers should have waited to allow more ash to form on the surface or committed some other act of alleged negligence. They could still find themselves walking into court. I recommend the Robbins lawyers use the mantra “Cool moss.” I hear it works at such moments.
It does not appear that, when Bill Clinton called Robbins for guidance, he suggested the fire walking avenue to redemption . . . and hospitalization.
Source: Mercury News
Malisha,
Your mom was a genius then.
For those interested, alternate movement therapy, ie
alternating movements on the right and left side is still important in adults. And is actually used as therapy, although it a while since I read of it and cannot recall which other than strokes. More subtle problems were of concern then.
One standard stroke therapy, for some that is, is both stationary bikeriding, rotating alternate hand apparatus against resistance. Australian crawl swimming is also good for us all, as opposed to breast, back etc strokes.
Well, about the statistics, I recently heard this (third-hand) from a very wise person — posthumously:
“Death: 35 billion people can’t be wrong.”
I read in another article that 6,000 people went through the firewalk. If that number is correct, and only 21 were injured, then one could say that this was a statistically insignificant event — well … as long as you were not one of the 21.
@Woosty: With seminars, books, and CDs like those listed above, Tony Robbins is implicitly promising people he can teach them to become millionaires. That is a bait and switch, a fraud.
The bait is “I can teach you to be a millionaire!”
The switch, after your check has cleared, is “But it is up to you to do the work, really, all I can teach you is to focus on your weaknesses and your inner strength, to hypnotize yourself, to believe in yourself…”
Tony Robbins uses the lure of being a millionaire to get people in the door. The truth is glaringly obvious: If $2500 worth of training really could make you a millionaire, the pay off would be 400 to 1. If that had any significant success rate at all, the growth rate of millionaires would be exponential, the first few people to try it would proselytize their friends and family, even finance their training. The phenomenon would explode!
But it hasn’t, because it is a fraud.
Malisha, Interesting point you make about your mother’s approach. I cared for a nephew at the time he was learning to crawl. He never “got” it. He would lie on his stomach, arch his back and cry in frustration. He wanted to go from here to there but couldn’t. He learned to walk, pretty much on his own at six months, and run shortly thereafter. Do you have any idea how fast a toddler can run? He learned to read but he’s not good at it and avoids it if he can. Think crawling would help him now?
My mother was a talented remedial reading teacher. She conceived of the idea that the kids who “couldn’t” learn to read had not crawled enough when they were babies, or had eve SKIPPED the crawling phase and just walked. She got a ittle device built for her classroom that she called the “bear-walk” and she’d give kids time on the “bear walk” while she (or other kids) played music. The kid put his knees and hands on little pads and “crawled” in place on the wooden platform. If they did this to rhythm, my mother claimed they would learn to read faster.
I think it had to do with organizing right and left brain to coordinate well, which was important for reading.
Anyway, the only way a kid (or anyone else) gets to honestly believe in his own worth is by proving it to himself over and over by actually doing things that are REAL in the REAL WORLD and noticing that they WORK. If he keeps getting told he’s great, wonderful, perfect, but he isn’t DOING anythingm he is just getting training in lifelong doomed fraud.
Woosty,
Creep table. Something I saw on TV. Great fun.
Imagine a walking rolling belt (english word?) but for babies just beginning to crawl, creep, etc. Waist high for mother/attendant convenience and baby safety and side barriers. The babies love it.
Amazing the different styles/modes/techniques. No lessons, learn by doing. Results: Enjoy the challenge of life. The most important lesson of all.
Why do we stop loving to learn and life’s challenges?
Said to an old couple last night: When you wake up, shout: “hurray, another day.”
“Now everybody can not have a motor-driven creap-table at home”
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id707, I don’t understand what you are saying here….
Tony C.- I’m sorry, MY language was not succinct enough for this ‘argument’….my correction is thus: Tony Robbins doesn’t say he will make millionaires….he gives workshops that help people connect with their own potential…the work of the ‘millionaire-making’ is their own. Con men build up a persons confidence in them…so they can take advantage of that ‘earned’ trust and break it. Tony Robbins helps people build up their confidence in their own selfs…and he does NOT break it because he is not the advantage taker. I bought a Tony Robbins tape set (unleash the power within…) and it was akin to the manner of workshop I have attended at church and in the business world, AND he gave workable pragmatic advice to help people focus on weakness and strength. Whether to use it or nor not was up to me and he didn’t come back later and tell lies about me or sue me for any of HIS mistakes…just to protect his own sorry ass. That however, is what lawyers did….and while I paid about 200$ for a 12 hour workshop from Mr. Robbins (and yes, it did effect positive changes for me…)….I was billed $300/hour plus, and with a door open to perpetuity, by the creepy ball dropping corporate law firm. Decent lawyers wouldn’t touch the mess because they know the dirty reputation of the big law firm(verbalized to me…)….and I’m not interested in another entanglement with lying crud. Luckily, I know there are decent Lawyers out there and I know that Tony Robbins is not a con man.
And I have my own pen…
The mirror image to Robbins operation and theme is the “Jesus will make you rich” churchs we have here in Sweden.
Mindset may get you to try to fly, but you better have business sense and a great airplane to succeed.
@Woosty: Tony Robbins doesn’t say he will make millionaires….
Oh, really? I googled for it, and I see Tony Robbins advertising seminars, CDs, and books:
“Seven Millionaires Share Their Secrets To Wealth,”
“The Millionaire Mindset,”
“Tony Robbins Secrets To Becoming a Multi-Millionaire,”
“Tony Robbins Apprentice Millionaire Portfolio,”
And I didn’t check the other 270,000 hits.
.he gives workshops to help people connect with their own potential
No, Tony Robbins gives workshops to lie to people about their own potential. Tony Robbins pretends that being a millionaire only requires faith in one’s self, and nothing could be further from the truth.
In fact too much faith in one’s self can make one vulnerable to all sorts of mistakes in the business world; it leaves no correction mechanism for mistaken perceptions of the market, over-investment in bad ideas, and oversights that can domino into disaster.
Woosty says: If encouragement is equated with a con then I guess every parent that ever encourages their child should get to wear stripes.
Encouragement is one thing, lying to people is another. To put that in parenting terms; if a child thinks they can fly if they just start from high enough, a parent does not encourage them to jump off the roof and give it the old college try.
Tony Robbins lies to people, he plays to their unrealistic fantasies about themselves and their abilities and their ideas. He isn’t encouraging them to take realistic steps to realize their fantasy, he is encouraging them to continue lying to themselves, to “fake it to make it” (a Tony Robbins line), to have a positive mindset, to get in the zone, blah blah blah, regardless of the realism of their fantasy. Take all of that “positive energy” and apply it as-is to the kid that wants to fly, and you end up with a dead kid. That is what happens with those duped into paying Tony Robbins too, a grisly reality check.
The truth of the matter is that only a tiny fraction of a percent of people make it to Wimbledon, or become rich rappers, or movie stars, or pro football players, or famous country singers, or make millions in business.
The truth is that ALL those tiny fractions of a percent, in all the different categories, still add up to a tiny percentage of all people.
Tony Robbins has made a business of exploiting the angst of children that are discovering, metaphorically speaking, that they still cannot fly, by telling them they can fly if they just work on their attitude. Tony Robbins is, metaphorically speaking, telling them that gravity is just a state of mind they can overcome by envisioning themselves flying every day.
Tony Robbins is a con man. The most important trait one can have in business is the opposite of absolute faith, it is the willingness to gamble in spite of doubts, cynicism and less than absolute trust. Under those conditions, people understand that what they are betting (time, money, or both) can be lost, and that leads them to consider ways of mitigating the losses. For example by trying smaller experiments to see if they would work, or paying a firm to gather information, or doing more legwork and travel to be more certain of the market. Some healthy doubt is also what lets people pull the plug when something is failing.
The most tragic business failures (and the biggest cause of owner suicide) is precisely what Tony Robbins “encourages.” It is the people that started with boundless enthusiasm and zero doubt about their imminent triumphal success, and then incrementally ended up “all in” with a mortgage on the house, their 401K, their kid’s college funds and all their savings, and then in the reality check lost everything.
Encouraging somebody to pursue an unrealistic dream is not doing them a favor, and getting paid for it is a con. No matter how happy his customers are leaving the seminar, no matter how convinced they are that they can fly by wishing hard enough, gravity is not just a state of mind.
Woosty,
I must agree with Tony on this at least regarding Robbins. While some “gurus” emphasize the valid “self actualization” aspect of belief in oneself, Robbins is one of those that pushes the learn to become wealthy meme, as if that is the end game of “self actualization”.
As far as giving one’s children encouragement to believe in themselves and their abilities, this is one of the standards of good parenting. However, in some instances this is something that must be done realistically and without the confusing factor of the parent’s own vicarious needs. When I see a 16 year old with a barely mediocre voice go on a TV talent show, proud parent backstage, and say that winning this show is the most important dream they have in life, I cringe. How much has this parent put their own longings on their child and what will the lasting effect of their almost certain loss have on their future?
Woosty,
I think you’re on to something……
Lashon Hatov – Good Speech « With Intention
michaeltpullen.wordpress.com/2009/12/…/lashon-hatov-good-speech…
27 Dec 2009 – Lashon Hatov is not about giving compliments. Good speech is about trying to find good things to say about other people on a regular basis.
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Brit Lashon HaTov — Covenant of Good Speech | Darim Online
staging.darimonline.org/…/brit-lashon-hatov-covenant-good-speech
2 Sep 2010 – Brit Lashon HaTov originally was written by Congregation B’nai Jeshurun (New York City) under the guidance of Rabbi Felicia Sol. Their goal …
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ANOTHER GIFT FROM FROM THE JEWS……..
Thank you Baruch, Alfred, Yehudi, Leonard, Noam…..!
Source: Google.se
Woosty,
You may have something there about the sick society.
The paremt in the first year has an obligation and an opportunity to become a central figure in the child’s
life. This avoids creating the TV syndrome child
Now everybody can not have a motor-driven creap-table at home, but it could be a tool at all child centers. That and similar experience providers can greatly accelerate a child’s development, but more important they are an essential part of the child’s attitude development. It creates the fun of challenges and increases the childs confidence in their capability to meet the challengss.
What were the words you used to characterize not giving encouragement. Sounds like a source that I would like to tap into. If you would, please.
“Lashon ha-tov”. Where does it come from? First will try Google, it is amazing there.
Bron my point exactly. And when it becomes inculcated into a society that it is allright to name call and finger point and undermine (all not only acceptable but expectable in the legal field especially), then you have a sick society and a confused populace being exploited by the hypocrasy. I would rather take my chances with a thousand Tony Robbins’ over a current day Cop or sadist Judge or $$$$ Lawyer…
Woosty:
“’potential’ is very often related to conditioning…”
that is very true, if you tell your children they are good people, hard working and you love them whatever they want to do but just do it well and if you tell them to be kind to other people and respect them, well I think 9 times out of 10 you will get that kind of child and that kind of adult.
On the flip side if you tell them they suck and are worthless well 9 times out of 10 that is what you will get as an end result.
More generally, Robbins is taking advantage of people’s mistaken perception of their own potential. If his programs really worked to make people millionaires, we would be swamped with Robbins Millionaires. His classes and seminars would have an 80% success rate.~ Tony C.
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People’s mistaken perception of their own potential?
That is a pretty damn loaded (and weird) statement Tony given that it is a subjective analysis and judgement of a multitude of people you’ve never even met.
And then “swamped in millionaires”….you mean like the expansion of the dot.com boom or the real estate and bank fraudsters???? Tony Robbins doesn’t say he will make millionaires….he gives workshops to help people connect with their own potential and encourages them to take action in betterment of themselves. If encouragement is equated with a con then I guess every parent that ever encourages their child should get to wear stripes.
There is also Lashon ha-tov, kissing cousin to Lashon Hara (evil tongue)….the sin of causing harm by not speaking the encouraging words…..
Haters gotta hate and tear down….others build up….’potential’ is very often related to conditioning…
Just another modern day P.T. Barnum, with a bit of Elmer Gantry mixed in.
@Woosty: Except, at Michael Shermer points out in your video, Robbins and the like ARE taking advantage of people’s mistakes: Like their belief that their state of mind will protect them from a physical harm.
More generally, Robbins is taking advantage of people’s mistaken perception of their own potential. If his programs really worked to make people millionaires, we would be swamped with Robbins Millionaires. His classes and seminars would have an 80% success rate. Instead, people leave feeling good, and a year later, nothing in their life has really changed, except they have one more delusion misleading them, that their walking on fire has proved something about their mindset and will make them more successful.
In fact, like any lie, it gives them a false perception of reality, and that can be dangerous. If “walking on fire” is a metaphor being courageous in the face of something they perceive as dangerous, and believing that their mindset alone can protect them from that danger, the delusion could literally cost them their life. Some things we think are dangerous are, unlike the coals, really pretty frikkin’ dangerous, and our mindset will not shield us from them.
Firewalking, can’t resist commenting.
I have seen it done in Bali by an old man who was definitely out of it for some reason. He got burned which I saw when after the show of which he was part, he became “sober” again.
Got news for yóu non physicists, like me:
Hot ash does not conduct heat as a steel sheet at the same temperature would do.
Be sure that the bed is at the “right” temperature, a even gray coat of ash, no red hot spots. And keep cool and go quickly and confidently. Hesitation on any foot will burn it. Keep going.
You too can be a shaman, without eating bitter herbs and vomiting for hours ahead to enter the other world.
And if you like to part with money, there’s always help.
Mine won’t do the work. but encourages me to do it.
I pay for it as gestalt therapists are not covered here.
Of seven therapists, from eleven years to 75 only one has been uniformly good.
One fairly good one, and desperately needed then, gava a wrong diagnosis to a female patient to whom I had recommmended him. The mental sexual problem turned out to be medical and was successfully treated.
From the street therapists to the society one, most have been crooked in one way or another.
The chonically nervous one now runs a state paid stress center. Still stressed. We met years later. What irony.
The society one tried to play switchhitter with my girlfriend and me. Jeez, so what are ethics. And he was a fully qualified psychiatrist.
Take your chances. But don’t fall in love with them, I usually do and but wake up later.
To David, I’m glad you did. And regret that others have also have had bad luck of the draw.