Respectfully submitted by Lawrence Rafferty (rafflaw)- Guest Blogger
It seems that almost everywhere you look, some State is trying to reduce the number of early voting days, purging the voting rolls and making it harder for citizens to cast their votes. The State of Florida has recently attempted to remove legitimate voters off its voter rolls and the State of Georgia recently attempted to restrict the time when a military absentee ballot can be counted as I wrote about earlier on this blog. Georgia Now, we have some hard evidence of just who is getting removed or impacted by the various State’s attempts to cure the imagined Voter fraud problem!
“Their data suggests that beyond the wide variation in purge rates across states, there is significant variation within states:
In many states, certain parts of the state electorate, both geographically and demographically, are much more likely to be dropped off of the voter rolls than others. More specifically, some general trends that we see are focused on:
a. Urbanity – cities are getting disproportionately purged
b. Race – minorities are getting disproportionately purged
c. Marital Status – unmarried people are getting disproportionately purged
d. Age – younger (< 40 years old) and older (> 65 years old) voters are purged more frequently than middle-aged voters
e. County effects – there are big differences across county lines, pointing to sharp discontinuities based on arbitrary political boundaries that do not correspond with inherent behavioral differences
Catalist notes that more than 2.7 million living people who voted in 2008 have since been purged from the voter rolls. Among those, African American voters are “1.5 times more likely to be purged than Caucasian voters, nationally.” ‘ Think Progress
It appears from the data above that Minorities are the big “winners” when it comes to the voter purge gambit. The young and the old seem to be the runners-up in the race to see which demographic gets the worst of the attempts to prevent legal voters from being able to vote. What could be behind this attempt to prevent minorities and the young and those older than 65 from voting? It couldn’t be politics, could it??!
What are these States afraid of? It cannot be voter fraud since the actual number of voter fraud incidents is infinitesimal. “In fact there were only nine instances of possible in-person voter fraud between 2000 and 2007, and it is more likely that an individual will get struck by lightning than they will commit voter fraud. In the lawsuit brought by the ACLU against Pennsylvania’s voter ID law, the state formally acknowledged that no in-person voter fraud has occurred in Pennsylvania and they don’t expect any to occur in November.” Think Progress
Let see if I understand this. One side is claiming that voter purges and stricter voter ID laws are needed to prevent or stop a problem that at least in the case of the State of Pennsylvania, was not a problem in the past or likely in the future.
If there is no legitimate voter fraud problem now or in the near past, should these voter purges and voter ID laws be considered Voter Fraud? If so, why and if not, why not?
Additional sources: The Brennan Center
James in La:
I was using welfare as a general example, I was not implying you were on welfare.
If you are do you need a valid ID or not? There is welfare fraud so maybe you dont need a valid ID.
Mike A.,
I think you are correct.
Barney,
As I said earlier, back up your claims.
Bron, you expose yourself with your inability to resist the temptation to cite “them illegals” as justification for removing millions of otherwise eligible voters from the books. You further cement your fate with your argument with the failed false equivalency between the right to vote, and the hundred other things for which ID is often (but not always) required. To twist the knife, you have to pick on welfare recipients, even to the extent you have to suggest I am one myself. You aren’t very good at this, are you?
Curious: Blockhead, indeed.
I note that Barney Collier has failed to cite a single reference for any of his rather broad allegations. That’s because there are none.
Begging everyone’s pardon in advance…
Bron is a blockhead and it is futile to indulge in any dialog with him.
james in la:
I am curious as to why you think having a photo id to vote is such a big deal?
I bet you have to have some sort of ID for welfare and I imagine people on welfare figure that out and make it happen.
supposedly there are between 20 and 30 million illegal immigrants in this country mostly from central and south America. Hispanics tend to vote for democrats, I imagine if they voted for republicans voter ID laws would already be in place and enforced.
If the argument is on the principle that voter ID laws will lead to other pre-emptive measures to keep people who typically vote Democrat from voting I wholly understand but don’t agree. The ACLU and the League of Women voters by all means should sue states for voting laws like Florida that will purge the voter rolls of eligible voters. Voting rights and civil rights groups by all means should sue states like Florida, Pennsylvania, Indiana and Ohio for voting laws that limit the number of days of early voting, squeeze the time between a registration drive and when those documents should be turned in, decrease the number of precincts in heavily populated areas, and make votes by mail from members of the military or any other count less than a standard vote. Those fights should be fought in court every day until November 6, 2012 and after. The fight on simply showing ID is a losing game.
http://changecomesslow.com/2012/08/07/voter-id-laws-whats-the-problem/
James in LA:
I dont plan on expiring any time soon. Sorry to disappoint.
Farce, do you understand the difference between voter registration fraud and voter fraud?
Actual voter fraud is very difficult because of having to show up in person. You would need posses numbering in the thousands all working closely together to vote numerous times at numerous locations. The reason it has never happened is because it’s nearly impossible to pull off, even in our connected age. It would leave too many footprints. Human nature would need to brag about it. You have to be able to move a mountain of votes to have any impact, and even then, good luck.
You have not made the case for eliminating millions of otherwise eligible voters.
Barney Collier said, “Everyone would gain from having a legitimate election without voter fraud.”
What past elections have all the voter fraud that requires taking millions of otherwise legitimate voters off the books? The answer: none.
I hope your fainting couch is paid up.
Well said James.
Barney,
please provide us the evidence of voter fraud that you are claiming? The State of Pennslyvania couldn’t find it even though they produced a law to combat it. Back up your claim.
Bron, you have lost the argument today. You want to inconvenience people to the point of being unable to vote all because you claim “not to understand the problem.” Bron, you lost the argument because there are no actual cases of voter fraud. And Bron, it does not matter what you “understand.” Millions of people are affected by these laws. Why couldn’t they be made to go into effect the day AFTER the election? That would give supporters a lot of time to help those who need it, and would eliminate the obvious politics of it. If you cannot see this is politically motivated, then you belong to the Grumpy Old Confused set you so openly deride.
Bron, who has this mystical fantasy that DMV managers give a crap about people waiting, wheelchairs or no, please come to California. You would have your eyes opened on more than one front.
Luckily, when those of Bron’s vintage expire, they are not being replaced in sufficient numbers.
Take your hands off my vote.
Slarti:
“but observations regarding the children you don’t see (i.e. why they are not at the fair with cotton candy) have no basis.”
sure, their parents are dicks for not taking them to the fair.
“It seems that almost everywhere you look, some State is trying to reduce the number of early voting days, purging the voting rolls and making it harder for citizens to cast their votes.”
The point is to make it harder for VOTER FRAUD – i.e. dead people voting, people in prison voting, family pets voting, people voting in multiple districts, etc… Not just “citizens casting votes”.
“The State of Florida has recently attempted to remove legitimate voters off its voter rolls and the State of Georgia recently attempted to restrict the time when a military absentee ballot can be counted as I wrote about earlier on this blog.”
Military absentee ballots – hmmm… he democrats are notorious for throwing out the military votes as we witnessed in past elections. Their logic is that the military tend to vote strongly for the Republican, so the fewer military votes counted, the less votes counted for the Republican.
“Georgia Now, we have some hard evidence of just who is getting removed or impacted by the various State’s attempts to cure the imagined Voter fraud problem!”
Imagined voter fraud problem??? What rock has this person been living under? We’ve seen clear voter fraud with Obama, but of course no one will dare pursue it because they will be labeled (shudder) a racist!
“Just Who Gains From Voter ID Laws?”
Everyone would gain from having a legitimate election without voter fraud.
Bill, You may be right but I have a different take on Nixon, there were strong and corrupt machines on both sides and I always figured that it was a matter of corrupt machines delivering votes: Kennedy got Chicago/Illinois and Nixon got Texas. LOL, I just put those contests down to old-school business as usual. Those were years when minority voting was marginalized(actually legally suppressed as the norm in ’60 and still a battleground in ’68) and elections were won on the back of corrupt, big city machines and practices. Those elections were ‘stolen’ the traditional way! 🙂
I think we have moved into new and frightening territory. HAVA is still flying under the radar. It’s a strange new world of electoral politics. Refresh my memory on Reagan, I’m fuzzy on that.
lottakatz –
Nixxon ’68
Reagan ’80
GW Jetson 2000
GW Jetson 2004
Romney 2012
As Lyndon said: “Let us continyuh”.
Would provisional balloting be an acceptable accommodation?
I looked at the 2000 election as a back door coup and the 2004 election as theft. That the current Republican campaign is simply all lies is maddening to me but not out of the main for our political system in my lifetime. I am though very concerned that the wholesale voter suppression and disenfranchisement has every possibility of becoming some variation of self-coup to deliver the country into the hands of a party that wins primarily due to corrupt practices, not necessarily illegal, but corrupt and anathema to democratic principles. I see this as imminently possible.
Bonnie
Right.