-Submitted by David Drumm (Nal), Guest Blogger
We are so kind to ourselves. John O. Brennan, Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism, repeats the Obama narrative that touts the “surgical” precision and minimization of collateral damage of “targeted killing” using drones. Minimal collateral damage would be zero, however, a study by NYU School of Law and Stanford Law School puts the number of civilians killed between 474 and 881, including 176 children.
The study calls Obama’s narrative “false.”
The NYU/Stanford study also reports on Obama’s despicable use of the “double tap”:
The US practice of striking one area multiple times, and evidence that it has killed rescuers, makes both community members and humanitarian workers afraid or unwilling to assist injured victims.
Christof Heyns, the UN special rapporteur and Professor of Human Rights Law, has said that if first responders “are indeed being intentionally targeted, there is no doubt about the law: those strikes are a war crime.”
Reaper drones carry the Hellfire II laser guided missile with a 20 pound warhead of high explosive, and two 500-pound GBU-12 laser-guided bombs. The GBU-12 has a blast radius of 200 meters, hardly surgical. These are the same weapons that are dropped from other platforms such as manned aircraft. Their precision is not enhanced when launched from drones.
The Hellfire missile has a Circular Error Probability (CEP), the distance from the aiming point that the missile will land 50% of the time, from 9 to 24 feet. he NYU/Stanford study cites a claim that the “double tap” may be a second strike required because the first one missed the target, although that is hardly a mitigating circumstance.
The NYU/Stanford study also notes that “the vast majority of the ‘militants’ targeted have been low-level insurgents.” The number of “high-level” targets is estimated at only 2%.
The Obama administration is using Bush-style tactics to cover up the killing of women and children. This includes over-hyping the accuracy of the weapons and redefining the term “militant” to include anyone who’s killed.
While drones can play an effective role as intelligence gathers and fire support on the battlefield, their inaccuracy makes them unsuitable for “targeted killing.” The probability of a drone strike killing women and children is so high that the drone can be reasonably considered a terror weapon and its use an act of terrorism. The media’s collusion on the Obama narrative enables the terrorism.
H/T: Glenn Greenwald, Kevin Drum, Daniel L. Byman (Brookings), TBIJ, Aviation International News, openDemocracy.
“Sphere of influence”. That term no longer has currency. One might argue that the Stan “countries”, and I am not talking about Stan Musial, needs some oversight. The same can be said for the Arab and Persian so called “countries”. A quantum of land which is not controlled by civilized people with an army and police force sufficient to quell pirates and terrorists (same thing with different goals) cannot be termed a “country”. When the Soviet Union invaded and somewhat controlled Afghanistan the United States made a stupid decision to oppose that. The Stan quantums of land are adjacent to Russia. They are more familiar with the land, mountains, streams, and dreams of the inhabitants. Perhaps no military or civil organization can civilize some of the tribes. America’s main agenda should be to keep muslims with box cutters from boarding airplanes that can crash into buildings in America. Russia perhaps has a similar agenda. Thirty years ago America recruited the likes of al Zawari (sp) and other Egyptians and Saudis to go organize with other Muslim Brotherhood hoods to throw the Soviets out of Afghanistan. When the Soviets left there was a void.
We helped create the Taliban and al qaeda. Least you forgetful guys like Turley and fellow commenters forget. Now Bush I and Bush II put us into two Stan quantums of land which none dare call “countries” or be called dumb and dumber. Obama inherits this and is extricating. He should have learned the phrase back when Nixon was President: Dick, pull out now, like your father should have.
I harken back to the days when the Soviets had some control in Afghanistan and even made secular forays such as allowing women into professions there. We did not have Muslim Brotherhood guys getting on planes with box cutters trying to hijack the plane and crash it into New York. A drone is a bad way to control the Taliban and al qaeda and it wont solve much except keep some of the tentheads guessing and some of them wondering why they are dead and there is no nirvana.
There is one message from this dog. Obama, pull out now like your predecessors should have. Let others wallow in Watergate.
Elaine,
Thanks for all the links.
Jeremy Scahill Says Obama Strikes In Yemen Constitute ‘Murder’
By Benjamin Hart
Posted: 06/03/2012
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/02/jeremy-scahill-says-drone-strikes-murders_n_1565441.html
Excerpt:
Weighing in on President Obama’s targeted drone strikes in the Middle East, journalist Jeremy Scahill did not mince words.
During his appearance on MSNBC’s “Up With Chris Hayes” Saturday morning, Scahill repeatedly said that such attacks, when they killed innocent civilians, amounted to “murder.”
Asked by Hayes why he would use such a “loaded” word to describe the strikes, Scahill responded at length.
“If someone goes into a shopping mall in pursuit of one of their enemies and opens fire on a crowd of people and guns down a bunch of innocent people in a shopping mall, they’ve murdered those people. When the Obama administration sets a policy where patterns of life are enough of a green light to drop missiles on people or to send in AC130s to spray them down…”
“But that wasn’t the case here,” interrupted retired colonel Jack Jacobs. “You’re talking about a targeted person here.” Scahill continued:
“If you go to the village of Al-Majalah in Yemen, where I was, and you see the unexploded clusterbombs and you have the list and photographic evidence, as I do–the women and children that represented the vast majority of the deaths in this first strike that Obama authorized on Yemen–those people were murdered by President Obama, on his orders, because there was believed to be someone from Al Qaeda in that area. There’s only one person that’s been identified that had any connection to Al Qaeda there. And 21 women and 14 children were killed in that strike and the U.S. tried to cover it up, and say it was a Yemeni strike, and we know from the Wikileaks cables that David Petraeus conspired with the president of Yemen to lie to the world about who did that bombing. It’s murder–it’s mass murder–when you say, ‘We are going to bomb this area’ because we believe a terrorist is there, and you know that women and children are in the area. The United States has an obligation to not bomb that area if they believe that women and children are there. I’m sorry, that’s murder.”
That is a question using the sarcasm and irony I love.
Welcome back. Hope it was nothing serious that kept you away Michael Murry.
I would also suggest a standdown of the drone attacks. No more aid to the Pakisanis until they go in and use an old and also modern technique to quelch the Taliban supporters. One prime minister there used it against resistance on the SW frontier successfully. What? Kill the sources of food. In Baluchistan they were nomadic animal holders.
I won’t mention the starvings we caused in Iraq.
Inhumane?? Damn right. But it did not stop us from using it. Nor the Pakistanis either.
Personally, I think Obama and the general officers who devised the Surge strategy should be held accountable.
Our surge troops hide in the very province of Helmand that they were sent to control—unable or unwilling to do their job.
I suspect that it is an ordered stand down due to the bad publicity and election effects from the continued American casualities.
On the whole, the Surge is a failure according to their own official stats. Taliban initiated attacks and IED explosions are up 30 percent since the Surge started.
Whoopee, let’s have a new surge. All in all, we’ve got more contractors there than troops. Great profits. Who said that war is hell? He was and is right.
It is HELLacious profitable.
Does anyone know how many incidental manslaughters President Obama gets to claim before he has to restrict himself to only the murders he intends?
LottaKatz,
I would support the retraction of the Nobel Peace Prize from Obama, if the agreed conditions of allow such a retraction and return of such a prize.
Premature awards are often the case in the Peace Prizes history. One example was the Award to Arafat and Rubin (?), and possibly the former prime minister (socialist/labor).
Knut Hamsum, litterature winner, was a subject of retraction. Whether it was or not I do not know. But Wiki knows. He had been a supporter of the Nazis, along with the infamous one who gave us a new word: Quisling.
I write this as general info and hope that those who read will check better sources. I offer them of course when I have them.
LottaKatz,
I agree it is a disgusting weapon, but my words were not said as a suggestion. Why do you assume so. I was speaking with my military ordnance knowledge and the principals of war as regulated by the Geneva convention.
Are you familiar with the one I was implicitly referring to. The restriction says that the purpose of military action is to cause such damage that the enemy combatant has to be removed from his the battlefield and thus is no longer available to fight. The purpose is NOT to kill, nor to maim per se. So much for principals.
Thanks for the info on their use in VietNam, didn’t know they were available so early.
I have worn many hats in my life, one as an Army officer on two years active service in a techical capacity. My job was not to kill but received basic info on the mission of the Army etc. Cluster bombs is one of these devilish weapons, devilish in that many unexploded capsules remain which can wound women and children who enter an area after the explosion.
Let us look at white phosporous artillery shells. They were used in the latest armed attacks on Gasa, leaving the question of “guilt” aside. In modern form they can be set to explode at differnt heights in the air above humans, civilian as in Gaza or soldiers. They can be used singly as markers to guided other attacking delivery systems, etc. In the Gaza case, it caused terrible burns in children and other civilians. Phosphorous burns, eating into the flesh and bone. Quenching and removal is very difficult. The white phosphorous wss used by the Israelis, and in my opinion were a reason that Israel lost moral ground and some international support from populations earlier in their favor, in that long term conflict.
Elaine Asked:
Darren,
Would you support the use of drone strikes against American terrorists like Timothy McVeigh?
There is not the same circumstances with regard to taking out terrorists in a semi-hostile foreign country and those within our own. More conventional police / LE measures will work just as well.
That said, if we had to take out McVeigh before he detonated a truck of explosives in a crowded building, and that involved some rather unusual methods, sometimes there are rare circumstances where one could say it is better to look the other way and take out a terrorist than to just allow him to murder 180 people or more. And yes, we are both aware this can lead to some rather bad things in gov’t if this was allowed to continue.
Here is another situation. You might all remember back in 1995 when a man stole a Patton Tank and went on a rampage destroying many vehicles in its path and miraculously did not kill anyone inside. Police were not equipped to stop the tank. It was only that it became high-centered on a Jersey Barrier before LEOs could climb up and stopped him. I know from someone I am acquainted with who was a LEO down there the brass was within a few minutes of calling in the military to take the tank out, and that likely would have been in the form of a helicopter fired missle. I can say if the tank had not been stopped, the chances for many deaths were a certainty. This is one situation where it could be considered necessary.
David,
Great discussion.
I agree with OS. Get out of Afghanistan now.
Lee, Here is a clip for you from yesterday where Romney’s foreign policy expert calls Obama “limp wristed”.
Have to wonder what Mitt will owe Adelson if he was to win the WH.
Seems like war one of the biggest moneymaker, just ask Cheney ):
Leejcaroll, Good point. I am unable to post an appropriate response regarding Congress, something to do with banned words, but Elaine at 11:36 did post an article link and excerpt regarding Congress allowing drone industry lobbyists to write the new rules regarding use of domestic airspace which should expand drone use significantly in the next few years:
“Exclusive: PowerPoint Shows Drone Industry’s Lobbying Plan To Expand Over Domestic, Law Enforcement Markets”
That’s domestic policy and Congress seems ready and willing to roll over whenever a lobbyist commands, whore is a word that comes to mind but it tends to denigrate hardworking sex workers by comparison. As to foreign policy, specifically anything to do with wars, the war on terror(tm), exploding things, killing people etc. etc. Congress totally ceded its authority to the Executive long ago; that side into the abyss started with the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. These days the Executive acts and Congress just nods “OK” with or without any grandstanding. The lobby’s that own Congress like war, it’s a moneymaker.
Has the Nobel committee ever demanded the return of one of its prizes? If not it might be a good time to start.
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A print article regarding the Montgomery County police highlighted in the vid Elaine posted at 11:51:
“Texas county police buys drone that can carry weapons
Published 31 October 2011
The police in Montgomery County — and area north of Houston, Texas — is the first local police in the United States to deploy a drone that can carry weapons; the police says it will be used in chases of escaping criminals and tracking drug shipments …. The drone was purchased with a $300,000 grant from DHS.”
http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/texas-county-police-buys-drone-can-carry-weapons
“The drone was purchased with a $300,000 grant from DHS.”
Various govt. agencies offer grants to local police to buy military level equipment as well as having programs to sell used military equipment and material to local police. That includes APCs, various specialized trucks, boats, electronic equipment and aircraft. I went looking for a link to the site listing equipment availability which I had posted a while ago in another discussion) and kept running into a newly consolidated DLA (Defense Logistics Agency) site (Aug. of this year inception) that contained- or appeared to contain- the info I wanted. You needed to open an account to get in past the splash pages. No thanks. Suffice it to say, the Feds want the locals militarized to the teeth.
ID707: “On consideration it would seem odd to use a concussion bomb against essentially personne. Cluster bombs would seem a better choice, and many more could be carried to attack many more targets. To put it in military-ese:
You don’t have to blow them apart, just make them bleed heavily.”
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Srsly, cluster bombs? Srsly? Disgusting suggestion.
The US hasn’t signed the Convention on Cluster Munitions so I suppose it is still an option for the US. Earlier this year I was watching a cooking program and the host visited Vietnam. He was in the countryside having lunch with a farm family. Dad only had one foot. The other was lost to a cluster bomb-let in his field. They’re still a problem in Vietnam and other countries long after the conflict has ended.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_munition
I notice that a few posters mentioned congress has agreed to this but it seems to be a point essentially overlooked. I am afraid the professor, and others, have become so anti_Obama that any other entity or person also responsible just goes by the wayside.
Most appreciated. It’s only 5:28 p.m. here so it’s too early.
Matt,
ROTFLOL Storks!
Gotta go to bed. 0015 hours local.
I am not a pilot, but I know what I call a control loop is in terms of the time between event to reaching the command function and back to the effectuation process, be it air surface control or munition firing.
I presume the ground troops had IR detection stuff.
Or maybe night glasses would suffice.
Thanks. No comment needed.
idealist707 1, September 29, 2012 at 5:31 pm
I think the cluster bombs are really good. One cluster bomb will kill everybody within the size of a football field.
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Chain guns: How can they be targeted by remote control.
The computers do it. Give me an A-10 Warthog. I wasn’t in the Air Force.
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The travel time from Afghan to USA via satellite is long enough to make remote targeting difficult.
Not really.
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Doubt if the drones themselves are sufficiently agile for tactical use for the same reason. No opinion of the the aeronautic.
Tell all the Taliban and Al Quedo shi*heads who have already been killed. Who gets to be fish food?
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PS That Storch was fantastic. You’d have to tie it down to keep it from lifting in a good headwind on the tennis court.
The Stork only does the delivery. Somebody else has to do the rest.